How The Alpha Male 2.0 Deals With Feelings Of Loss

Reading Time – 6 minutes

Below is a recent comment from my YouTube channel. I’ve edited it slightly to remove some irrelevant context from the video. Still, it perfectly highlights the questions, emotions, and concerns thousands of men have relayed to me over the years.

This is regarding when a long-term woman leaves and men experience similar if not worse irrational reactions. I can say that even without oneitis and having other women in my life, the feelings of loss when someone you really care about leaves really messes with your head. Like all that work just getting that relationship to that point goes right down the drain. And more so the work involved in bringing in her replacement. This feeling makes men want to “fix” the current relationship or chase her which the exact opposite of what we should do. Men actually reduce the odds of her returning by doing this.

Your first reaction is that this guy is being a pussy or a beta. And yes, I would classify those feelings as “beta” as well.

However, the problem is that this accurately and precisely encapsulates the biological and societal default setting of how men feel when a woman leaves them.

This is, indeed, exactly how men are “wired” to feel: sad, desperate, hopeless, a feeling of wasted time and investment, and needy.

If he’s an Alpha Male 1.0, also add the emotions of anger and disrespect.

Obviously, if a monogamous beta male or Alpha Male 1.0 experiences these feelings, he will, just as the commenter above said, do exactly what he’s not supposed to do and pursue the woman to “get her back” or “not let her go,” which is classic oneitis.

This will, again as he correctly observed, drive her attraction for him downward and make the odds even lower that she will ever see him or have sex with him ever again. As always, when it comes to women, sex, and romance, men are programmed to do the opposite of what works in the real world.

This is why the baseline Alpha Male 2.0 technique of when a woman leaves you or does a LSNFTE is you need to just let her go, do nothing, and immediately go radio silent for at least six months to a year. Don’t text her, don’t call her, don’t post anything on her social media. Just vanish like the wind.

This ensures whatever attraction she had for you when she left doesn’t drop even 1%. It heightens the likelihood that you’ll see her again.

This is one of the many reasons why I have a 94% return rate for women who leave me and have maintained that rate for over 17 years. When they leave, which is what women do, I do nothing that lessens the attraction they have/had for me. When they (or I) circle back around six months or a year later (or longer sometimes), she’s primed and ready to see me again instead of thinking, “Oh no, not this fucking guy again.”

But in this article, I’m going to address how to manage the emotions around this. The commenter above is stating that yeah, even if you follow the correct Alpha Male 2.0 techniques, and even if you are having sex with other women, and even if you don’t have oneitis for the woman, most men, especially Alpha 2.0 beginners, will indeed experience feelings of loss and neediness for whatever reasons.

Let’s take the first part of the comment:

The feelings of loss when someone you really care about leaves really messes with your head.

He’s saying “really care about” but I’m going to say oneitis or something close to oneitis.

I’ve said many times that the final level in the Alpha Male 2.0 video game is to achieve full love for a woman without ANY oneitis, not even a hint of it.

I achieved this almost 20 years ago. Today I can fully, 100% love a woman with my entire heart (as I do for Pink Firefly) but have ZERO oneitis for her, and hold both of these conditions in my mind at the same time.

99% of men can’t do this. If they have strong feelings or love for a woman, oneitis is automatic for them. If (or should I say when) this woman leaves them, as the commenter says, “it really messes with your head.”

I love Pink Firefly more than I have ever loved a woman and the love I feel for her is on a spiritual level, and has been for almost a decade. Yet, if she broke up with me tomorrow, I wouldn’t experience anything that would “mess with my head.” I would be disappointed for a few days, maybe 2-3 weeks at the most, and that’s it. My happy life would continue.

I wouldn’t try to pursue her.

I wouldn’t try to compromise with her.

I wouldn’t try to get her back.

I wouldn’t get depressed.

I wouldn’t get distracted with my work (after a few days had passed at least; there might be a momentary disruption only).

I mean it. None of these things would happen. I would nod and say, “Okay, if that’s what you want, I understand,” and just move on.

And… I know she’d have a 94% return rate, so now I really wouldn’t care. This leads to the next part of the comment:

Like all that work just getting that relationship to that point goes right down the drain.

NO! That’s a monogamous mindset, and we Alpha 2.0s don’t live in the monogamous world like the rest of society, thank god.

For normal monogamous men, yeah, once their GF or wife leaves them they’ll probably never going to fuck her again. All that time and effort was indeed washed down the drain. That’s one of the numerous reasons why monogamy is so god damn stupid.

But we Alpha 2.0s don’t have breakups. We have breaks. Breakups are permanent (barring oddball exceptions like with psychopaths like Ben Afflick and J.Lo). But breaks are temporary. That’s what the T in LSFNTE means… TEMPORARY.

It’s true that most Alpha 2.0s aren’t going to have a 94% return rate like me because I’ve been at this for almost 20 years (my 18-year Alpha Male 2.0 anniversary is next month), but return rates of 60% and 70%+ are quite common in our community and increase with practice.

This means that this woman who left you (or is about to leave) has high odds of returning to you someday, meaning you didn’t waste any time building the relationship and nothing went down the drain.

I’ve had many women stay with me for 10+ years if you include LSNFTEs, and that’s even with me moving countries. It’s not that difficult if you follow Alpha 2.0 relationship models.

Here’s the final part of the comment regarding men’s feelings:

This feeling makes men want to “fix” the current relationship or chase her which the exact opposite of what we should do.

Correct, this is what most men want to do, but not the Alpha Male 2.0.

The Alpha 2.0 does a few things to prevent or offset these feelings.

First, he does everything in his power to never get oneitis or even oneitisy tendencies. The original article on how to do this is here and the video masterclass on this is here.

Oneitis IS preventable! You just need to take the time and effort to do what is necessary.

Next, you keep reminding yourself that she’s not leaving you. She’s just taking a break away from you. She’ll be back, motherfucker. Chill! 

Statistically speaking, she’ll follow that same LSFNTE model all women do with Alpha 2.0s. She’ll get tired of you not being monogamous to her or not making her your girlfriend (MLTRs and FBs only; this doesn’t happen with OLTRs), then she leaves you, quickly boyfriend-up a random beta male who kisses her ass, she’ll love it for a few months, a year or two on the outside, then get bored and turned off by his needy beta behaviors, then come back to you.

This could take 6 weeks or it could take 3 years (depending on her age; older women return more slowly), but it will still happen (provided you managed the relationship correctly when you were with her and went radio silent when she left).

Dozens upon dozens of women have done this to me, and many of you, which is why I have a 94% return rate.

So calm down and suck it up; SHE’LL BE BACK!

Lastly, you lean into your other women. Most of the time, even if the woman who leaves you was your favorite, you can quickly promote your second favorite (whom you’ve been thinking about a lot lately) and make her your new favorite. I’ve done this before more than once. Then go back to your roster and resurrect some of your past favorites if you need to. If you still need more women after this, hit the dating apps or daygame/night game and go get one more. Not ten more; one more. Anyone can get one more.

It’s not a big deal.

When you are new or at an intermediate level with Alpha Male 2.0 you need to constantly remind yourself that you don’t live in the monogamous paradigm anymore. All these concerns, worries, and frustrations only apply to beta males and those Alpha 1.0s who eventually surrender to monogamy. We Alpha 2.0s don’t need to worry about any of this crap. It’s only because you’ve lived most of your life as a beta male that you’re “accustomed” to these stupid, useless monogamy-based feelings.

Alpha Male 2.0s live in an entirely different universe.

Thankfully.

Leave your comment below, but be sure to follow the Five Simple Rules.

64 Comments
  • James
    Posted at 02:19 pm, 2nd January 2025

    Great article and just what I needed to hear today. Even though I have other women in my roster, I definitely have severe Oneitis for my favorite. And although she didn’t leave me, I “ broke up” with her due to my persistent alpha 1.0 tendencies and she did something I perceived as disrespectful after giving her an earful of drama and lectures lol‍♂️. What can I say, I am still learning.

    But one question: when you say to go radio silent, for six months, what do I do when she contacts me because she still contact me every couple of days. Do I answer her texts and calls or completely ignore her for six months?

  • Tom
    Posted at 10:57 pm, 2nd January 2025

    Enjoy you content Caleb – I am an introverted ISTJ (according to all the tests..) & I still think that your level of ‘roboticness’ is extreme!

    I mean, you have to care about SOME things, right?

    I am still working on cultivating more outcome independence…. Trying to give less fks!

    Enjoying the blog, hope you write more frequently.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 04:43 am, 3rd January 2025

    when you say to go radio silent, for six months, what do I do when she contacts me because she still contact me every couple of days. Do I answer her texts and calls or completely ignore her for six months?

    You can RESPOND to contact at any time but if she texts you “every few days” then yeah, you need to start ignoring those. Make a general comment about how you’re moving on with other things or something, then go radio silent. You cant ever INTIATE contact until 6-12 months.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 04:45 am, 3rd January 2025

    I mean, you have to care about SOME things, right?

    Outcome independence doesn’t mean you care about nothing. It means you don’t care about the outcome of any one individual scenario.

    I care A LOT about my Mission and my big goals in life. Everything else is just details.

    Enjoying the blog, hope you write more frequently.

    I won’t. One article per week here, and one article per week at my other blog, two YouTube live streams per week, and that’s it.

  • Daniel
    Posted at 06:47 am, 3rd January 2025

    Heavy topic. I can honestly say I’ve experienced all these emotions in the past. Like most guys I didn’t make the correlation that these instinctual reactions were because we are biologically wired to be that way. I wouldn’t call it “beta” though if it’s instinctual by nature and even 1.0’s suffer from it too but I would say it takes a lot of reconditioning. I suppose there should be some relief that it’s “normal” and I wasn’t crazy for trying but even now I chastise myself for behaving that way in the past as if I was supposed to be some stoic Superman, but the truth is I didn’t know. It’s not like we’re taught this stuff when we are young and given useful coping mechanisms. Quite the opposite! We’re sold Disney and movies and music reinforce the chasing mentality. As for women, are they even aware that they’re biologically wired to leave men? They’ll leave good relationships and monkey branch to the next one like it’s nothing. Her cold or distancing behavior for her ex is like the ugly female version of the guy that tries to stop it. What’s your take on why there’s this polar opposite imbalance effect going on between the sex’s, men get the oneitis and cling to the woman and the women detach and dispose of the man? It’s such a crazy mismatch.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 09:16 am, 3rd January 2025

    Outcome independence doesn’t mean you care about nothing. It means you don’t care about the outcome of any one individual scenario.

    I care A LOT about my Mission and my big goals in life. Everything else is just details.

    What would you say is the difference between practicing extreme outcome independence vs. being a psychopath? That’s a serious question.

    I understand not acting like a needy little bitch when a woman you’re in love with dumps you, because acting indifferent maximizes the chances of her returning, but a human being who isn’t a sociopath feels a profound sense of loss when someone they love chooses to leave them (even if they keep these feelings to themselves). Every time any woman I was deeply in love with chose to leave my life against my will, I was emotionally wrecked and devastated. I may not have revealed this to her, because, as you say, acting needy will only ensure that she’ll never return, but there is a difference between practicing good game vs. experiencing genuine human emotions for the one you love that, I would think, only sociopaths wouldn’t feel.

    I’m not calling you a psychopath, but it seems to me that too much of anything is a bad thing, including outcome independence. Too much confidence can lead you to being perceived as a cocky and arrogant douche by a woman, and therefore, unattractive if not mitigated by other traits in certain circumstances. Likewise, too much outcome independence can at least lead to extreme heartlessness and psychopathic tendencies.

    Again, I’m not saying that you should act like a needy beta male, get down on your knees, and beg her to stay, as that will only confirm for her that her decision to leave you was the correct one, but when it comes to your internal emotions regarding someone whom you’re deeply in love with (regardless of whether you reveal them to her or not), you should at least make sure that you still have a soul and aren’t literally made of stone, don’t you think?

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 09:37 am, 3rd January 2025

    Next, you keep reminding yourself that she’s not leaving you. She’s just taking a break away from you. She’ll be back, motherfucker. Chill!

    What about ghosting? This is an increasing problem for me. Ghosting seems to have quadrupled these days in contrast to just 10 years ago. I’m the type of guy who always enjoys getting to the “why” behind everything. I very much want closure, not because I don’t want the girl to leave, or would be crying for days like a beta if she did (especially if she’s just a fuck buddy), but I, nevertheless, consider ghosting to be grossly disrespectful and beyond rude. If you don’t want to be with me anymore, fine, but why not just say it instead of enjoying my company one moment, and then blocking me and disappearing in the next?

    I have never ghosted anyone in my life, not even a fuck buddy. And the extreme rudeness of the new generation is causing my inner alpha 1.0 to boil with rage at the disrespect, even as I would be perfectly okay with them simply telling me to fuck off, as long as they actually tell me that.

    My other sticking point has to do with more and more younger woman being disgusted with me as soon as they learn about my age, even as they were super enthusiastic about me right before finding out (I look like I’m in my late 20s when I’m in fact in my early 40s). I know I should reread your younger woman book and chase only the Type 2s, but it’s still sad that so many woman are this closed minded on the age difference issue (which I am just now starting to experience). I think it will take another generation for the inter-generational sex taboo to be muted to a greater extent than it is now.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 10:14 am, 3rd January 2025

    As for women, are they even aware that they’re biologically wired to leave men?

    Of course not. If they were, the forever Disney monogamy delusion would be a much harder sell. Most women tend to be subjective creatures of the moment. This moment is all that exists and, as far as they’re concerned, the only moment that ever will. Then, once the moment passes, a brand new “forever” begins in the next moment, and, in order to maintain their own sanity, they will literally retcon their own memories from the previous “forever” moment in order to maintain their delusion of consistency, thus avoiding a confrontation with their own hypocrisy.

    Every moment is a separate universe onto itself, according to women. If you understand this, you can seduce the pants off of so many of them, including married women (who are the most spectacular in bed) if you so desire.

    They’ll leave good relationships and monkey branch to the next one like it’s nothing.

    No, not like it’s nothing. It just seems that way. When a man breaks up with a woman, his grieving process is just beginning. But women don’t break up with men until their grieving process has already ended. At first, she’ll seem colder and more distant than usual, and you will brush it off like it’s nothing, or like she probably just had a bad day. But she will break up with you a million times in her own head before she does it for real.

    By the time she actually does it, she is already so thoroughly sick of you, that she is ready to jump on another man’s dick that very night because her grieving process is completely over by then. But since she didn’t say anything to the clueless beta, he thinks that she was in love with him just the other day, but now suddenly fell out of love in two seconds and started fucking another guy two hours later “like it’s nothing.” That’s just how the beta perceives it, but her time of mourning has a very different chronology than a man’s.

    Her cold or distancing behavior for her ex is like the ugly female version of the guy that tries to stop it. What’s your take on why there’s this polar opposite imbalance effect going on between the sex’s, men get the oneitis and cling to the woman and the women detach and dispose of the man?

    Scientifically speaking, a man’s body believes that he impregnated the female every time he ejaculates (even if he didn’t due to birth control), which causes the man’s brain to release bonding chemicals. But a woman’s body (even if it’s on birth control) doesn’t understand the lack of impregnation despite all the sex. So her body comes to the false conclusion that the man is infertile, thus releasing anti-love and pro-disgust chemicals into her brain so she doesn’t waste time with a supposedly infertile man (her being on hormonal birth control doesn’t change this brain process because her body doesn’t understand that).

    There are only three ways of avoiding this and maintaining female attraction and love in the long run:

    Option 1: Have 20 to 30 children with her, like in diaper head countries.

    Option 2: Never have sex with her, except on very special occasions, like birthdays and Valentine’s Day.

    Option 3. Have all the sex with her that you want, as often as you want, while being on birth control, but make it an open relationship so that her subconscious will think she hasn’t fully conquered you yet, and if she sleeps with other men as well, her body won’t come to the conclusion that all of them are infertile, thus confusing her biology into wanting to keep trying.

    Option 3 is the best choice, as sexual monogamy will cause the above mentioned problem that will result in her losing attraction for you, getting bored, and monkey branching. And, many times, she herself won’t understand why. It’s biology. Monogamy doesn’t work, but polyamory does.

  • N1
    Posted at 05:23 pm, 3rd January 2025

    @Jack Outside the Box
    @Caleb Jones

    ‘But women don’t break up with men until their grieving process has already ended. At first, she’ll seem colder and more distant than usual, and you will brush it off like it’s nothing, or like she probably just had a bad day. But she will break up with you a million times in her own head before she does it for real.’

    Do you have any further signals to look out for here?

    I recently had a MLTR almost break away with a LSNFTE whilst I was about to upgrade her to an oLTR.

    Should you set a timeline by which to upgrade a MLTR?

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 05:22 am, 4th January 2025

    I wouldn’t call it “beta” though if it’s instinctual by nature and even 1.0’s suffer from it too

    It’s beta.

    It doesn’t matter why it’s done, a beta behavior is a beta behavior. And many Alpha Male 1.0s can an do engage in beta behaviors (look at Will Smith).

    We’re sold Disney and movies and music reinforce the chasing mentality.

    Correct. Societal Programming is a beta male factory.

    As for women, are they even aware that they’re biologically wired to leave men?

    No.

    (But if you explained it to them they wouldn’t care.)

    They’ll leave good relationships and monkey branch to the next one like it’s nothing. Her cold or distancing behavior for her ex is like the ugly female version of the guy that tries to stop it. What’s your take on why there’s this polar opposite imbalance effect going on between the sex’s, men get the oneitis and cling to the woman and the women detach and dispose of the man? It’s such a crazy mismatch.

    I’ve already discussed my take on this many times. It is the way it is, you won’t be able to change it, so modify your mindsets and behaviors accordingly, or suffer unhappiness for the rest of your life.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 05:25 am, 4th January 2025

    What would you say is the difference between practicing extreme outcome independence vs. being a psychopath?

    EXTREME outcome independence means you ARE a psychopath.

    Too much of any good thing = a bad thing, just as you said. You can be TOO outcome independent just like you can be TOO confident.

    Be VERY outcome independent but don’t have TOO MUCH outcome independence. Then you’ll just be a monster.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 05:27 am, 4th January 2025

    What about ghosting?

    Doesn’t change any part of the process.

    This is an increasing problem for me. Ghosting seems to have quadrupled these days in contrast to just 10 years ago. I’m the type of guy who always enjoys getting to the “why” behind everything. I very much want closure, not because I don’t want the girl to leave, or would be crying for days like a beta if she did (especially if she’s just a fuck buddy), but I, nevertheless, consider ghosting to be grossly disrespectful and beyond rude.

    You’re too outcome dependent about this. You shouldn’t give a shit why. Just move on to other women and know she’ll be back at some point.

    I don’t give a shit if a woman ghosts me. I just move on.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 05:34 am, 4th January 2025

    Do you have any further signals to look out for here?

    Many. Aloofness, resisting sex, complaining more, etc.

    Should you set a timeline by which to upgrade a MLTR?

    JESUS, NO. NEVER. The vast majority of MLTRs don’t qualify for OLTR. Plus you want to wait as LONG AS YOU CAN to upgrade, not rush it based on some arbitrary date.

  • TGGOATCR
    Posted at 10:25 am, 4th January 2025

    @Daniel
    @Jack Outside the Box
    @Caleb Jones

    >As for women, are they even aware that they’re biologically wired to leave men?
    >Of course not.
    >No.

    All Incorrect.

    Y do U tink, as a General Rule (>50%), Women DEPSISE PreNups wen da Man Makes MOAR Money?
    Bc da Woman NOSE She is Biologically Programmed 2 Leave Him….and wants 2 Continue 2 get Access 2 His Resources wen She Inevitably LEaves.

    Y do U tink, as a General Rule (>50%), Women WANT PreNups wen She Makes MOAR Money den da Man?
    Bc da Woman NOSE She is Biologically Programmed 2 Leave Him….and does NOT want 2 PayOut her Resources 2 Him wen She Inevitably Leaves.

    Y do U tink, as a General Rule (>50%), Married Women Admit 2 having a BackUp Man [w Many More NOT Admitting it]? (OnePoll//TalkerResearch)
    Bc da Woman NOSE She is Biologically Programmed 2 Leave Her Current Man….and will Need a Noo Man 2 Extract Resources from (Money, Energy, Attention, and Time) in His Place.

    Y do U tink, as a General Rule (>50%), Women Love [getting Attention from] Social Media?
    Bc da Woman NOSE She is Biologically Programmed 2 Leave Her Current Man….and Social Media Allows Her 2 Acquire Multiple BackUp Men 2 Extract Resources from (Money, Energy, Attention, and Time) Very Easily.

    Also…
    U tink Women DON’T have PAttern Recognition dat dey;ve Lost Interest in ~All BFs/Husbands in da Past B4 dose Men Lost Interest in Her?

    Everyting U C Above^^ is:
    The BLUE Deathly Hallow of Women:
    ~100% of what Women Say is 2 Draw Ur Attention Away from The RED Deathly Hallow of Women.
    100% of Ur Relationships, Woman Blamed Her BF/Husband 4 Relationship Ending, Right?
    Ur Mother Blamed Ur Father 4 Her Marriage Ending, Right?
    ~100% of what Women Say is 2 Draw Ur Attention Away from The RED Deathly Hallow of Women.

    Witch brings Us 2:
    The RED Deathly Hallow of Women:
    Women R Biologically Programmed 2 LEave Men, NO MATTER what The Man does.
    100% of Ur Romantic Relationships have Ended, Rite?
    And Ur Mother Left Ur Father, Rite?
    Women R Biologically Programmed 2 LEave Men, NO MATTER what The Man does.

  • TGGOATCR
    Posted at 10:51 am, 4th January 2025

    Furthermore…

    Y do U tink, on Avg*, wen a Divorce Occurs, da Probability da Woman Filed 4 Divorce is 90%?
    Bc da Woman NOO All Along she was Biologically Programmed 2 Leave Him……She Noo it was either gona B Her Filing (90% Probability) or Him Filing After He No Longer wants 2 put Up w Her Increasingly Bad Behavior After The RED Deathly Hallow of Women was Activated InsideHer (10% Probability) .

    *Avg Woman = ‘College-Educated’ Woman

    >They’ll leave good relationships and monkey branch to the next one like it’s nothing.

    Bc She Noo from da Jump she was gonna Leave NEways….so she only Actually Invested in2 da Relationship a Fraction of what da Man Invested…..Witch is da Reason it’s so EZ 4 Women 2 Leave deir BF/GF or Husband/Wife Relationships (but w/ some Emotional Acting w How ‘Distruaght/in-Paine’ She is as Predicted by The BLUE Deathly Hallow of Women).

    Tink:
    In Ur M/F Romantic Relationships in da Past…..HOO has Invested da Majority of MEAT (Money, Energy, Attention, Time) in da Relationship……U or Her?

  • Daniel
    Posted at 04:47 pm, 4th January 2025

    @ Jack Outside The Box. Wow, that’s fascinating and it makes a lot of sense! So basically what you’re saying is that, biologically speaking, because she doesn’t get pregnant her body thinks the guy is sterile so she’ll silently start to check out and sabotage the future of the current relationship until she feels nothing for the guy and that’s when she makes her exit and moves on to another potential (though unproven) candidate. If there’s any truth to this, and I believe there is, it explains a lot! I can think of times in my past where the women would leave giving the most petty bs reasons why. Reasons that would have easily been forgiven or ignored at an earlier phase of our relationship, that somehow now were insurmountable no matter what I said. And as you mentioned, they start to rewrite our history together. I was truly baffled at the time and again experienced all the feelings and classic mistakes that the original commenter in the article stated. Which in part we can surmise is a withdrawal or detoxing of the bonding chemicals. I eventually rationalized that women were just unappreciative of what they had, were always looking for the next new opportunity regardless of how good the current one was and that they lacked any real foresight. And as you said, they are creatures of the moment. That’s when I stopped building closeness with women and adopted a non exclusive anything attitude. If they were going to be this way and there was nothing I could do about it then I saw no reason to. But the underlying operation as to WHY they were that way was never clear to me until now. Can you suggest any further reading sources for this? I’m surprised that this knowledge isn’t more known and talked about. I suppose the only thing that’s suspect relating to this whole theory of women leaving because pregnancy isn’t happening would be all the couples that do in fact stay together for years and years, some of whom never had children. I also agree with your other comments, it IS psychopath to not feel the emotions of loss for someone you loved deeply leaving. Also, I’m in my mid 40’s and experience the same challenges with younger women as you have. It’s just par for the course unfortunately and not letting it get the better of you which I know is difficult. It’s still a game of sifting through the ones that are high interest or not and from my own experience is still a small percentage as far as Type Two’s. I tend not to reveal my age until after lock-in which helps. But lately I’ve been leaning towards never telling them my age and always leaving it a mystery which might be best honestly. It’s just a question of how to be tactful about it. But yes, read The Ultimate Younger Women Manual again.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 10:16 pm, 4th January 2025

    Do you have any further signals to look out for here?

    Please watch this video very carefully:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVZAuNjBoxo

  • AlphaOmega
    Posted at 05:37 am, 5th January 2025

    @ TGGOATCR

    Some women know, most dont.
    Doing introspection about what they want and why and how things work and why is not a woman thing. It is the primary reason why a lot of women past certain age are in the mess they are.

  • AlphaOmega
    Posted at 05:42 am, 5th January 2025

    “ But one question: when you say to go radio silent, for six months, what do I do when she contacts me because she still contact me every couple of days. Do I answer her texts and calls or completely ignore her for six months?”

    Depends, I would not reply for a while at all, then id suggest she can come to my place and if she did Id proceed to her pants. If shed refuse, I would ignore her completely but make it clear she can let me know if she reconsiders, would ignore all messages and calls that dont sound like she reconsidered.

    @Daniel
    Its hard from monogamy perspective, non mono is a solution to this.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 10:04 am, 5th January 2025

    Be VERY outcome independent but don’t have TOO MUCH outcome independence. Then you’ll just be a monster.

    But how do you know where to draw that line exactly? I suspect most men who take your advice concerning outcome independence will either take it too far or not far enough.

    Have you ever taken it too far? How are you able to thread that needle perfectly?

    You shouldn’t give a shit why.

    That means you and I are fundamentally different people. The why is everything to me, irrespective of whether I want her back or not. I want to understand everything.

    I don’t give a shit if a woman ghosts me. I just move on.

    The thing I can’t stand is the contrast. Imagine a woman being extremely enthusiastic when she’s around you. Everything goes great, and she claims that you gave her the best sex she has ever had. You say you have to leave, but she doesn’t want the night to end. She says she can’t wait to see you again, and the last time you saw her she had a smile on her face. Then she ghosts you. You can’t even send her a message because you’ve been blocked. No explanation. No nothing.

    If she doesn’t want to see me again, that’s fine, but HOLY SHIT WHAT HAPPENED? That’s what I want to know. When a woman ghosts me in that fashion, I have to fight the urge to call the police and report her as a missing person, or start checking the hospitals or something.

    I don’t want anyone in my life who doesn’t want me in theirs, but some answers would be nice. Just some closure, that’s all.

    But I think you and I are too different for you to appreciate what I’m saying.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 11:28 am, 5th January 2025

    I recently had a MLTR almost break away with a LSNFTE whilst I was about to upgrade her to an oLTR.

    What do you mean “almost break away?” How do “almost” break away? So a dude promised her monogamy and she almost left with him, but then said no at the last minute? Is she still your MLTR?

    Should you set a timeline by which to upgrade a MLTR?

    Huh? You can never upgrade her too late, but you can upgrade her too early. She should be your MLTR for a minimum of six months to a year before deciding that making her your serious girlfriend is appropriate. But there’s no time limit. Whether or not to upgrade her should be determined by your feelings for her, her feelings for you, and her behavior towards you, not based on how much time has passed. That is, unless she’s been your MLTR for less than six months, in which case, you have no business upgrading her so soon.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 05:53 am, 6th January 2025

    All Incorrect.

    Y do U tink, as a General Rule (>50%), Women DEPSISE PreNups wen da Man Makes MOAR Money?

    Women know they leave men. They don’t know that it’s biological. And stop writing like that; if you do that again I’ll ignore your comment.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 05:54 am, 6th January 2025

    What about sleep habbits and skin routine?

    Sleep habits apply to all ages.

    Skin routine, yes, but ideally the guy started that before he hit his 40s. Waiting until you’re 57 to start a skin routine is better than nothing but in many respects it’s too late.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 06:05 am, 6th January 2025

    Be VERY outcome independent but don’t have TOO MUCH outcome independence. Then you’ll just be a monster.

    But how do you know where to draw that line exactly?

    Yes. If you’re actively creating real harm to other people then you’ve crossed the line.

    I suspect most men who take your advice concerning outcome independence will either take it too far or not far enough.

    Half wrong. Most men who take my advice don’t go far enough. I never heard of one who took it too far.

    Have you ever taken it too far?

    No. I don’t cause active harm to others.

    You shouldn’t give a shit why.

    That means you and I are fundamentally different people. The why is everything to me, irrespective of whether I want her back or not. I want to understand everything.

    I know. You’re very outcome dependent and always have been. That’s your problem.

    The thing I can’t stand is the contrast.

    Right. Because you’re outcome dependent.

    Imagine a woman being extremely enthusiastic when she’s around you. Everything goes great, and she claims that you gave her the best sex she has ever had. You say you have to leave, but she doesn’t want the night to end. She says she can’t wait to see you again, and the last time you saw her she had a smile on her face. Then she ghosts you. You can’t even send her a message because you’ve been blocked. No explanation. No nothing.

    Sure, I find that irritating, but I wouldn’t care. Because A) likely it’s because there’s another guy in the picture which is allowed, B) I have plenty of other women, and C) I have a 94% return rate so I know she’ll be back. So none this “why” stuff matters.

    If she doesn’t want to see me again, that’s fine, but HOLY SHIT WHAT HAPPENED? That’s what I want to know.

    Right. Because you’re outcome dependent.

    And the likely answer is that there’s another guy she’s pivoted to.

    When a woman ghosts me in that fashion, I have to fight the urge to call the police and report her as a missing person, or start checking the hospitals or something.

    Outcome dependent. A little needy too.

    I don’t want anyone in my life who doesn’t want me in theirs, but some answers would be nice. Just some closure, that’s all.

    Outcome dependent.

    But I think you and I are too different for you to appreciate what I’m saying.

    I understand exactly what you’re saying and I would find it irritating and rude, but I wouldn’t lose my mind over this stuff like you do, because I’m outcome independent and you’re not.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 09:20 am, 6th January 2025

    So basically what you’re saying is that, biologically speaking, because she doesn’t get pregnant her body thinks the guy is sterile so she’ll silently start to check out and sabotage the future of the current relationship until she feels nothing for the guy

    Yes, but only if the relationship is monogamous. If the two of you are in an open relationship, and she is also casually sleeping with other men (hopefully), then her body will NOT come to the conclusion that all the men are sterile. It might come to the conclusion that there is something wrong with her body, thus motivating it to keep trying. That’s why serious long term relationships for years, or even decades, are very possible if the relationship is sexually open. You only run into these problems with boredom and the like if you’re the only one she’s having sex with.

    Also, this is not a conscious process on her part. She herself will not understand why she’s no longer attracted to you (in a monogamous relationship).

    and that’s when she makes her exit and moves on to another potential (though unproven) candidate.

    No, FIRST she moves on to another man, AND THEN she makes her exit. In a monogamous relationship, she will start cheating on you first and fall in love with another man. Then she will flinch every time you try to touch her, because, in her mind, sleeping with you, her boyfriend, would be betraying the man she loves now and she would NEVER betray a man she loves by sleeping with another man, even if that other man is her boyfriend.. She’s not a monster, she tells herself, and sleeping with you would make her a monster in her eyes.

    In other words, she has cucked you. In this situation, the definition of cuckoldry is – a practical replacement of roles without the corresponding official replacement. Officially, you’re her boyfriend and he is a stranger, but unofficially, you’re the stranger and he’s the boyfriend in her heart. Again, practical replacement without the official one. The best fictional example is the king from Alice in Wonderland.

    She may not break up with you if the man she’s in love with now is married or in a relationship, but as soon as he’s free, she will dump you.

    I can think of times in my past where the women would leave giving the most petty bs reasons why. Reasons that would have easily been forgiven or ignored at an earlier phase of our relationship, that somehow now were insurmountable no matter what I said.

    Yes, she must find socially acceptable reasons, or people will “judge her.”

    And as you mentioned, they start to rewrite our history together. I was truly baffled at the time and again experienced all the feelings and classic mistakes that the original commenter in the article stated. Which in part we can surmise is a withdrawal or detoxing of the bonding chemicals.

    Yeah, she must backwards rationalize her actions in order to avoid feeling guilty and stupid.

    I eventually rationalized that women were just unappreciative of what they had, were always looking for the next new opportunity regardless of how good the current one was and that they lacked any real foresight.

    It’s not about being unappreciative. It’s about her brain releasing anti-bonding chemicals that compel her to move on to a brand new guy whom her body believes will give her kids. As stated, polyamory short circuits this bodily process, thus allowing her to be attracted to you for the long term. Only monogamy can get you into this mess.

    Can you suggest any further reading sources for this?

    Read the book “Women’s Infidelity,” by Michelle Langley. She is a brilliant woman who goes very, very deep into this process. According to her, there are four stages:

    Stage I: The woman suddenly starts to feel a vague “unhappiness,” as if “something is missing in her life.” They experience a loss of interest in sex, and if their boyfriends touch them, they freeze up and feel a tightness in their chest. They can’t understand why, but sex with their boyfriends makes them want to throw up all of a sudden.

    Stage II: The woman experiences a reawakening of sexual desire, for every man she meets EXCEPT her boyfriend. She starts losing weight, hitting the gym, dressing sexy, and feeling good. The boyfriend is relieved and thinks she’s back to the woman she was when he first met her. But no, she’s still not sleeping with him and is on the hunt for a new man to fall in love with. If the woman thinks that women are more inclined to monogamy than men, that makes her think that whatever unhappiness she’s experiencing is her boyfriend’s fault, which helps assuage her guilt.

    Stage III: The woman falls in love with another man. It first starts as an emotional affair, but then proceeds to get sexual. She sees herself as “making love” to her new man, but she’s terrified of leaving her boyfriend due to the emotional and/or financially security that the relationship still provides her. If the boyfriend breaks up with her, she will be furious with him, because she doesn’t want him to leave her! While she’s sleeping with the side man, she considers it the best sex of her life and talks about “experiencing feelings she’s never experienced before.”

    Stage IV: She breaks up with her boyfriend when the other man is ready, which is when the grieving process begins for the now ex-boyfriend. But once she breaks up with him, her grieving process has finally ended, thus causing her to fuck her new boyfriend daily and passionately. This shocks the ex-boyfriend because he’s wondering how she could have moved on so soon, especially since they just broke up a week ago. Plus, she told her ex when she was still with him that she is beyond sex and has evolved passed such “primitive instincts,” only for her to completely reverse herself. Then, three years later, she stops having sex with her new boyfriend after experiencing yet another “vague feeling of unhappiness.” Rinse and repeat!

    Credit: Michelle Langely, Women’s Infidelity

    She also wrote a sequel – Women’s Infidelity 2: Breaking out of Limbo.

    There was also a woman who posted on this very blog – Kryptokate – who was aware of this process and broke it apart at length. Caleb wrote a post about it where he let her speak, titled “Confessions of a Serial Monogamist:

    https://alphamale20.com/2015/05/25/confessions-of-a-serial-monogamist/

    I suppose the only thing that’s suspect relating to this whole theory of women leaving because pregnancy isn’t happening would be all the couples that do in fact stay together for years and years, some of whom never had children.

    Who are you talking about? Such couples don’t exist, unless you’re talking about:

    1. Old couples who got married in the 1950s or prior where divorce was a scandal and they’d be social pariahs. There’s a lot of cheating going on in such relationships and they haven’t had sex with each other in decades.

    2. Young couples in which the woman is completely economically dependent on the man. She cheats her ass off and makes sure that he never finds out, but only sleeps with him the minimum amount of time (just enough to prevent him from complaining). The best way to get a woman to cheat with multiple men throughout her lifetime is to make her financially dependent on the man, while he and society thinks that they are the perfect long term couple. A lot of those are secret open relationships too.

    3. Young couples whose relationships are secretly open, but you and everyone else think that they are closed, long term, and happy.

    4. Truly monogamous couples with extremely low sex drives (both psychologically feminine and homo-romantic for a feminine partner of the opposite sex)

    5. Couples who have tons of kids.

    Otherwise, the monogamous and long term happy couples you’re talking about are fictional. Most of these long term marriages are miserable and both pray that the other one will die in a car accident so they can collect the insurance. Trust me, I know! But, by all outward appearances, they are happy and fulfilled, thus leading you to point them out to me.

    Also, as Langely points out, women who are more psychologically masculine than feminine will want to diversify their genetic assets, which is why they will lose all attraction for their men as soon as they give birth to their first child (assuming the relationship is monogamous). Their bodies don’t want a second one with the same man. These women have higher than average sex drives on a normal day. So you’re gambling either way.

    OLTRS are the solution. Then you can have zero kids with her, a little, or a lot, as you choose, and she will still be as attracted to you as ever. I’ve met several older couples like this with zero children in the swingers/poly scene. They still can’t keep their hands off each other (as well as others) and they’ve been together for decades!

    But if you want long term monogamy, constantly keeping the woman barefoot and pregnant is your best bet, or institute a totalitarian puritanical regime in which women will get the death penalty if they cheat, leave, or enjoy sex in any way. Full economic dependence on men (to prevent leaving) and female genital mutilation (to prevent cheating) was precisely invented to solve this problem.

    But if you want a sexually liberated and free society with long term and happy relationships and lots of sex, non-monogamous serious relationships are the only other solution.

  • N1
    Posted at 06:48 am, 7th January 2025

    @Caleb Jones
    > The vast majority of MLTRs don’t qualify for OLTR. Plus you want to wait as LONG AS YOU CAN to upgrade, not rush it based on some arbitrary date.

    I’ve read your books and blog. Your strategy to choose an oLTR is
    i) Wait until you are over 30
    ii) Date many MLTR and choose the best one (cream of the crop)
    iii) Have oLTR requirements

    Any more advice you have here?

    Also – 25% of the male population is avoidant i.e. get anxious with increased intimacy.
    Any advice – should they stick to MLTRs even if part of them wants a girlfriend?

  • AlphaOmega
    Posted at 11:59 am, 7th January 2025

    “Sleep habits apply to all ages.

    Skin routine, yes, but ideally the guy started that before he hit his 40s. Waiting until you’re 57 to start a skin routine is better than nothing but in many respects it’s too late.”

    Yes, but at younger ages a man can get away with poor sleeping habbits, over certain age its a huge deal.

    Regarding the skin routine I find it overwhelming and don’t know when to start. I don’t want to use some dodgy cosmethics full of questionable chemicals and artificial stuff. Any suggestions to a full on all natural skin routine?

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 03:13 am, 8th January 2025

    I’ve read your books and blog. Your strategy to choose an oLTR is
    i) Wait until you are over 30
    ii) Date many MLTR and choose the best one (cream of the crop)
    iii) Have oLTR requirements

    Any more advice you have here?

    Yes, you must wait AT LEAST 6 months, ideally 12 months or more, before you upgrade an MLTR to OLTR AND she has to have had zero or near zero drama or problems that entire 6 month period or she doesn’t qualify.

    Also – 25% of the male population is avoidant i.e. get anxious with increased intimacy.
    Any advice – should they stick to MLTRs even if part of them wants a girlfriend?

    That’s an individual decision every man needs to make for himself. You need to ask yourself WHY you want a girlfriend. If it’s because of SP or because you’re lonely, that’s a terrible reason so you shouldn’t have a girlfriend.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 03:15 am, 8th January 2025

    Regarding the skin routine I find it overwhelming and don’t know when to start.

    Age 35 or so.

    I don’t want to use some dodgy cosmethics full of questionable chemicals and artificial stuff. Any suggestions to a full on all natural skin routine?

    I’ve have it somewhere on my blog; search around. Or buy my Younger Woman Manual where I explain it in detail.

  • AlphaOmega
    Posted at 06:03 am, 8th January 2025

    “I’ve have it somewhere on my blog; search around. Or buy my Younger Woman Manual where I explain it in detail.”

    You are very vague in both of those. I am guessing you have experience using purchased products only, and not using natural techniques.
    This stuff is hard to find because literally no men do this.

  • N1
    Posted at 06:20 am, 8th January 2025

    @Jack Outside the Box
    @Caleb Jones

    Your description of woman’s infidelity sounds very similar to the thought process leading to the LSNFTE.
    Except, at least in my experience, the women is still very strongly attracted to the man.
    This causes huge discomfort as she struggles to leave him and tries to destroy their rapport/connection. Whilst still wishing he would commit as a boyfriend.
    It’s quite unpleasant having to go through this – you have feelings for your MLTR.
    An article on this would be useful.

    @Caleb Jones

    > You need to ask yourself WHY you want a girlfriend. If it’s because of SP or because you’re lonely, that’s a terrible reason so you shouldn’t have a girlfriend.

    Any more information/advice here? This is quite important, and I couldn’t find much more information in your books or blog.

    Thanks for the blog and for the books.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 04:19 am, 9th January 2025

    You are very vague in both of those.

    Incorrect. I’m not vague at all in the book and provide specific very instructions. If you don’t like my instructions then go look elsewhere.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 04:21 am, 9th January 2025

    our description of woman’s infidelity sounds very similar to the thought process leading to the LSNFTE.
    Except, at least in my experience, the women is still very strongly attracted to the man.

    Incorrect. In most cases a woman is cheating because she is NOT attracted to the man anymore. (Not all cases, but most.)

    > You need to ask yourself WHY you want a girlfriend. If it’s because of SP or because you’re lonely, that’s a terrible reason so you shouldn’t have a girlfriend.

    Any more information/advice here?

    What I just told you is pretty self-explanatory, but if you want more details read this:

    https://alphamale20.com/2019/06/10/why-no-man-should-have-a-girlfriend-until-hes-30/

    …and if that’s not good enough, I can’t help you.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 07:19 am, 9th January 2025

    In most cases a woman is cheating because she is NOT attracted to the man anymore. (Not all cases, but most.)

    I separate cheating into two distinct categories – Type 1 and Type 2.

    Type 1 cheating (otherwise known as feminine cheating) involves falling in love with another person and falling out of love with one’s primary partner. Alternatively, it involves having sex on the side with people whom the cheater is attracted to while trying to avoid sex with one’s life partner whom the cheater is not attracted to (i.e. female gold diggers just using their boyfriends for money). Usually, in a Type 1 cheating situation, the cheater wants nothing to do with their life partner of a sexual nature, and wants to either be single and enjoy casual sex with others, or has fallen in love with someone else, thus making sex with their life partner feeling like cheating on their “true” partner in their heart.

    Type 1 cheating is done by the majority of feminine women and the small minority of feminine men.

    Type 2 cheating (otherwise known as masculine cheating) is essentially an open relationship without your life partner knowing about the open part. It merely involves casual sex on the side with some discreet partners while you are genuinely in love with your one and only life partner. Type 2 cheating is no threat to the relationship (as long as you don’t get caught). This type of cheating has nothing to do with your primary partner and you continue loving your primary with all your heart, even while you do your thing on the side because you’re horny and have needs that your more conservative life partner wouldn’t understand.

    Type 2 cheating is done by the majority of masculine men and the small minority of masculine, or sex-positive, women who haven’t found a man open minded enough to allow an open relationship. Type 2 cheating is a way for more mainstream people to get their needs met while keeping the person they love, as an open relationship proposal would cause their life partner to instantly break up with them. This situation is more common for sex-positive women in love with territorial men, but men dating hyper-feminine women who would never allow an open relationship are in this boat too. Type 2 cheating is, many times, less risky than proposing an open relationship (which would be a Type 3 situation).

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 07:35 am, 9th January 2025

    Also, I’m in my mid 40’s and experience the same challenges with younger women as you have. It’s just par for the course unfortunately and not letting it get the better of you which I know is difficult.

    In my growing experience with this issue, so many women in their 20s (and some even in their 30s) become shockingly closed minded when they hear my age, even as they were so forward and enthusiastic about getting to know me (and very sexually flirtatious as well) when they thought I was in my late 20s. It’s like all the have to hear is my age and their personality instantly changes before I can respond or do anything about it. Then they proceed to fuck everyone but me while referring to me as a potential older brother figure. It’s sad as fuck, especially since, just two minutes ago, we were flirting and they were very attracted to my masculine personality, and my game was working on them.

    Ever see the movie Hostel 3? There was that scene early on when the crippled guy was in Vegas and that hot girl started flirting with him at the bar. She then suggested that they go someplace private, and as he was getting up, she suddenly saw his crutch which he was using to prop up his bad left leg. Her personality immediately changed and she ran away. Then he made a snide comment like, “well this crutch stays hard all night, bitch!” I feel like my age is like that crutch. I can’t seem to even respond or mitigate the situation before the girl just leaves. But yeah, I need to more aggressively start looking for Type 2 women online who love older men who look young.

    It’s still a game of sifting through the ones that are high interest or not and from my own experience is still a small percentage as far as Type Two’s.

    Yeah, it’s definitely a small percentage. I seriously thought that these things don’t matter as long as the guy looks young, but apparently they do. The level of closed mindedness from some younger women is disappointing. In a way, looking young is a curse because these girls wouldn’t have even given me false hope if I looked older.

    I tend not to reveal my age until after lock-in which helps. But lately I’ve been leaning towards never telling them my age and always leaving it a mystery which might be best honestly. It’s just a question of how to be tactful about it.

    I’d rather not lie or hide something like that. I don’t want to deal with the outrage, the deception accusations, and perhaps even a false rape accusation if the woman is pissed enough. I’d prefer to be upfront, as I’m not in the mood for a potential legal battle with some psycho who thinks I tricked her.

  • N1
    Posted at 10:12 am, 9th January 2025

    @Jack Outside the Box
    Good points.
    I was recently in this this situation where I had a high-end MLTR (dated for 4+ years) and didn’t follow Blackdragon’s system fully.
    We agreed on some rules (variant of the 7 cardinal rules).
    She got upset with the arrangement and not being my proper girlfriend and didn’t tell me.
    So broke the rules and semi-dating/sleeping sleeping with other men.
    She was still attracted to me and thus I got mixed signals.
    But a lot of her thought process and actions still sound like the cheating article e.g. trying to destroy her attraction to me by looking at the negatives, delaying meetings et.c

  • N1
    Posted at 10:22 am, 9th January 2025

    @Caleb Jones
    > What I just told you is pretty self-explanatory, but if you want more details read this:
    > https://alphamale20.com/2019/06/10/why-no-man-should-have-a-girlfriend-until-hes-30/
    > …and if that’s not good enough, I can’t help you.

    This is an article focused on the negatives of a girlfriend (and I followed your advice).
    What about an article about the positives of an oLTR/girlfriend?
    For low-emotional avoidant guys that you addressed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSwNsgJh42s
    i..e. can you do a part 2 of this video?

  • AlphaOmega
    Posted at 10:57 am, 9th January 2025

    “Incorrect. I’m not vague at all in the book and provide specific very instructions.”

    I have the version from 2019, did you give more examples in the newer version or is this part the same?

  • Daniel
    Posted at 04:23 pm, 9th January 2025

    @ AlphaOmega

    This is what I do that’s as natural as I get and hopefully you’ll find it useful..

    I wash my face every evening with a moisturizing bar soap that’s free of fragrance, dye, parabens, sls, or animal ingredients. The 365 brand from Whole Foods is the one I usually get.

    Every third evening I exfoliate with a wet wash cloth. That’s it. No product exfoliator necessary. Just a gentle scrub with the wash cloth.

    Every evening after I wash I apply hyaluronic acid as a moisturizer. (Credit for this I give to Good Looking Loser). This I buy as a powder and you have to mix it with a little water in batches so it turns into a gel. It’s kind of a pain but once you get the routine of it you get used to it and it’s not a big deal. The brand I use is BOS Essentials.

    Once a week, I’ll do an Indian Healing Clay Mask, the brand is Aztec Secret (again credit to Good Looking Loser). This is clay powder that you mix with apple cider vinegar and works as a deep pore facial and helps tighten your skin. I’ll wash my face first, let dry, apply the mask and let it dry completely, then wash off in the shower. (NOTE: You want to make sure you wash this off completely otherwise you run the risk of clogging a pore and then you’ve got yourself a pimple that you definitely don’t want. So wash good.)

    In the morning, I simply rinse my face with water and then go about my day. No soap or otherwise. I’ve found that natural facial oils are necessary and that if you are constantly washing them away with cleanser every time you wash you become dependent on external moisturizers. So my nighttime routine is the only routine.

    As always make sure you’re drinking a lot of water as you want to hydrate from the inside out. And take lots of vitamin C.

  • Daniel
    Posted at 09:53 pm, 9th January 2025

    @ Jack Outside The Box

    Thanks Jack. I’ll definitely check out Michelle Langley’s books. Glad to see a woman spilling the beans on some of this stuff. Especially in such detail.

    Likewise, the Kryptokate article is gold. Including the comments section where she goes even further. A must read on this blog for everyone. I wonder whatever happened to her as she appeared to be a regular contributor to the comments at a certain point and presented things in a very descriptive and dare I say easy for guys to compute kinda way. Hope she makes a comeback here! One question I would have liked to have seen her answer was if the woman always has someone else lined up before breaking it off with her current man, but we all know the answer to that one. Even if biology wasn’t at play, if there was no other person in the mix we would assume she’d be more inclined and motivated to put her effort into resolving and/or improving the current relationship with her man. But since there almost always is someone else in the picture she’s quick to cut ties and monkey branch.

    Just another reason why monogamy is a dicey deal for men. You’re setting yourself up for this headache and heartbreak to play out.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 09:51 am, 10th January 2025

    This is an article focused on the negatives of a girlfriend (and I followed your advice).

    You asked about why a man would want a girlfriend and that article directly addresses that (while yes, addressing some other things).

    What about an article about the positives of an oLTR/girlfriend?

    Jesus, I will NEVER write an article about that because men get OLTRs/girlfriends too much rather than not enough. A lot of men who currently have girlfriends would have happier if they didn’t have one.

    You seem like you really want an OLTR. Bro, if you’re under 30, no, if you’re over 30, go ahead as long as you follow ALL of my models to the letter. It’s that simple.

    can you do a part 2 of this video?

    No. I really don’t have more to say on that topic.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 09:52 am, 10th January 2025

    I have the version from 2019, did you give more examples in the newer version or is this part the same?

    There is no updated version in the Younger Woman manual because no changes have been needed in the past six years (it’s even easier now).

  • Anonymous
    Posted at 04:53 pm, 10th January 2025

    @Daniel
    @Jack

    “I can think of times in my past where the women would leave giving the most petty bs reasons why. Reasons that would have easily been forgiven or ignored at an earlier phase of our relationship, that somehow now were insurmountable no matter what I said.”
    “Yes, she must find socially acceptable reasons, or people will ‘judge her’.”

    Mmmm Not Exactly Correct….It is ALL about Concealing The RED Deathly Hallow of Women…..Bc Women ~CANNOT Extract Resources from Men dat NO it…..Witch Causes deir Probability of Survival All Thruout History (Save 4 da Last 50 Yrs), 2 Drop 2 0%.

    The BLUE Deathly Hallow of Women:
    ~100% of what Women Say is 2 Draw Ur Attention Away from The RED Deathly Hallow of Women.
    —–>100% of Ur Relationships, Woman Blamed Her BF/Husband 4 Relationship Ending, Right?
    —–>Ur Mother Blamed Ur Father 4 Her Marriage Ending, Right?
    ~100% of what Women Say is 2 Draw Ur Attention Away from The RED Deathly Hallow of Women.

    The RED Deathly Hallow of Women:
    Women R Biologically Programmed 2 LEave Men, NO MATTER what The Man does.
    —–>100% of Ur Romantic Relationships have Ended, Rite?
    —–>And Ur Mother Left Ur Father, Rite?
    Women R Biologically Programmed 2 LEave Men, NO MATTER what The Man does.

    “Then, three years later, she stops having sex with her new boyfriend after experiencing yet another “vague feeling of unhappiness.” Rinse and repeat!”
    Tru.

    “OLTRS are the solution. Then you can have zero kids with her, a little, or a lot, as you choose, and she will still be as attracted to you as ever. I’ve met several older couples like this with zero children in the swingers/poly scene. They still can’t keep their hands off each other (as well as others) and they’ve been together for decades!”
    Correct, The RED Deathly Hallow of Women has NEVER ben DFeated 5 Trillion Days in a Row….so Best bet is 2 Work it into 1’s Long-Term Plan w Women.

  • Daniel
    Posted at 11:46 pm, 10th January 2025

    @ Jack Outside The Box

    I think you nailed it that looking too young is at least part of the issue for you. I have some salt and pepper hair, forehead lines and a few small lines near my eyes. So from the get go the women I approach can clearly see that I’m an older man. Because of this I don’t always get asked how old I am, but when I do, I look them straight in the eye and say “old enough to know better” and then change the subject back to them. Because remember she’s qualifying to you, not the other way around. You’re an established older man and she’s just a typical girl who should be lucky a guy like you is even giving her the time of day. But the Type 1’s will always balk and there’s nothing you can do about it. The 2’s and 3’s you’ll hold their curiosity for longer. The ones that are high interest will be receptive and cooperative. My suggestion to you is if you dye your hair, stop doing that. Lose any youthful bling if you have any. And if you’re not already, lean into a style of dress that’s more grown up, think business casual but not too fancy. This will hopefully help strike a mature medium with your more youthful physical features.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 09:24 am, 11th January 2025

    the Kryptokate article is gold. Including the comments section where she goes even further. A must read on this blog for everyone. I wonder whatever happened to her as she appeared to be a regular contributor to the comments at a certain point and presented things in a very descriptive and dare I say easy for guys to compute kinda way. Hope she makes a comeback here!

    The last time she posted, she went full monogamous with a new man, moved in with him, and spent her last posts here complaining about how she never has privacy anymore, how she is becoming more and more miserable, and how she can’t resist peer pressure in her small town. Sad.

    Even if biology wasn’t at play, if there was no other person in the mix we would assume she’d be more inclined and motivated to put her effort into resolving and/or improving the current relationship with her man. But since there almost always is someone else in the picture she’s quick to cut ties and monkey branch.

    But that’s a good thing. You’re talking about the “deserted island” effect. Yes, if a man and a woman are stuck together on a deserted island, will have food and water that will last them a lifetime, and have accepted that they will die together and will never be rescued, they are going to fuck. This is true even if she would never touch him and thinks he’s a loser if she had other men to choose from. But that’s not a choice then, it’s a lack of options, and no man with any self respect should accept that deal.

    People (especially men) call me crazy, but this is why if I were stuck on a deserted island with a hot female, I would NEVER have sex with her or touch her, no matter how badly she were to beg for it, UNLESS she gave me signs of attraction on the plane or in the real world BEFORE we crashed and got stuck together. Even if we would have fucked of 6 years on that island, if I detect any hint that she’d be embarrassed by me or try to downplay our relationship if we were to have gotten a surprise rescue, or if another dude were to suddenly be stranded with us, I’d never touch her. I would castrate myself on that island before touching her. Why? Because I want everything to be real. If a woman is settling for me due to a lack of options and would consider me an unfuckable loser if she had other options, than I will NEVER end her loneliness, not even on a deserted island.

    So I’m so glad that women can monkey branch in real life and not try to fix the relationship. If the only reason she’s fixing the relationship is because there are no other guys, then she’s fake. I want her to reveal to me her authentic self, and the only way that will happen is if she’s surrounded by guys. I wouldn’t have it any other way. In fact, if a woman were to try to reconcile with me because her looks are fading and she has no other options, then I will be the one to proudly dump her.

    Bottom line – You shouldn’t want a woman to work on the relationship, UNLESS that desire is authentic. And the only way you can be sure it’s authentic is if she has lots and lots of options.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 10:14 am, 11th January 2025

    I think you nailed it that looking too young is at least part of the issue for you. I have some salt and pepper hair, forehead lines and a few small lines near my eyes. So from the get go the women I approach can clearly see that I’m an older man.

    When a woman tries to guess my age, she always says something like 27 or 28. When I tell her I’m 41 now, she almost has a heart attack and runs away. A few have even called me a groomer, and one even called me a pedophile, despite her being 20. And she was so flirtatious just a few minutes prior!

    But the Type 1’s will always balk and there’s nothing you can do about it. The 2’s and 3’s you’ll hold their curiosity for longer.

    Here’s the thing: Caleb stated a long time ago (incorrectly, in my opinion) that it’s all about looks. He said that when you ask a group of women in their 20s if they would ever fuck a guy in his 60s. they will all say no and that that’s gross. Then you ask them if they would fuck Hugh Jackman, the guy who played Wolverine in the X Men movies. They will all say yes. Then you point out to them that he is in his 60s. They will laugh and say, “Well yeah, but he’s hot.” In other words, it’s all about looks. When she thinks of a guy in her 40s, she’s picturing her dad, or one of her dad’s buddies. Most 40 year old men look like shit. But Caleb said that if you just take care of your body and look good, it will be a different story.

    But this is not true. I have excellent genetics and have taken great care of myself, I may not have the muscles of Hugh Jackman, but every woman thinks I’m a good looking guy in his 20s (I still get carded for alcohol), and most women run away and get disgusted as soon as I tell them how old I am, despite them thinking I’m a hot 27 year old just a few minutes earlier. They certainly wouldn’t think that they’d be embarrassed to be seen in public with me or anything.

    So yeah, it’s mostly about age, not looks. And it’s also hard for me to distinguish between the Type 1s and the Type 3s, although I have learned that the girl is a Type 1 the hard way in certain specific situations.

    My suggestion to you is if you dye your hair, stop doing that.

    No, I don’t do that. My hair is naturally dark blonde. Not a single grey hair in sight. I have tons of grey facial hair, but this isn’t relevant because I’m always clean shaven. No one will ever see me with facial hair.

    Lose any youthful bling if you have any.

    Nope. None. I always thought that crap attracts gold diggers anyway.

    And if you’re not already, lean into a style of dress that’s more grown up, think business casual but not too fancy.

    Way ahead of you. I never dress like a teenager. Thanks though.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 10:53 am, 11th January 2025

    I was recently in this this situation where I had a high-end MLTR (dated for 4+ years) and didn’t follow Blackdragon’s system fully.
    We agreed on some rules (variant of the 7 cardinal rules).

    What rules did you have? There are no rules within an MLTR arrangement.

    She got upset with the arrangement and not being my proper girlfriend and didn’t tell me.
    So broke the rules and semi-dating/sleeping sleeping with other men

    Wait, what? She was your MLTR. That means she can sleep with, and even fall in love with, whoever else she wants! Are you saying her being monogamous to you was one of the rules? That’s not an MLTR arrangement then. That’s a one way open relationship. But since she wasn’t your girlfriend, she had every right to be upset with you telling her who she can or cannot sleep with.

    .

    She was still attracted to me and thus I got mixed signals.

    Her sleeping with, and dating, other men, AND being still attracted to you is NOT a mixed signal. It’s a normal MLTR relationship.

    But a lot of her thought process and actions still sound like the cheating article e.g. trying to destroy her attraction to me by looking at the negatives, delaying meetings et.c

    Well if you are trying to block her from other men, despite her being your MLTR, then it makes sense why she’d want to destroy her attraction for you so she can be with other men without the apparent hypocrisy that you were exhibiting, unless I’m missing something here.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 12:44 pm, 11th January 2025

    Also, Daniel, going back to what we were talking about concerning women’s infidelity:

    Michelle Langely has a very narrow focus and does not distinguish between Type 1 vs. Type 2 cheating (although Kryptokate does). It should be noted that a woman cheating on a man (just like a man cheating on a woman) does not necessarily imply that there is any type of problem within the relationship, or that the woman is no longer attracted to her boyfriend. The cheating could, after all, be Type 2.

    Merely having discreet sex with another person, even while you’re very much in love with, and sexually attracted to, your life partner is simply evidence that monogamy doesn’t work, and that open relationships are the true way to go. But I think most men (and women) are too quick to assume that all cheating is Type 1, in which the life partner is no longer in love or sexually attracted to their primary, and therefore, wants to monkey branch to a new person they are now secretly in love with via “exit cheating.” This is only sometimes true.

    But if your life partner is madly in love with you, constantly shows it, and still has great sex with you on a regular basis, then the cheating (if any, assuming the relationship is monogamous) is Type 2, in which case, the man should probably look the other way, and vice versa if the man is the one cheating. Again, this is just proof that monogamy doesn’t work and that open polyamory should be attempted instead. But Type 1 cheating would be unacceptable even in open relationships which are built on a foundation of emotional exclusivity and mutual sexual attraction (which Type 1 cheating, or the type of women’s infidelity that we, and Michelle Langely, been talking about, violates).

    Type 1 cheating can only be prevented in three ways::

    1. Don’t be monogamous (best way)
    2. Give the woman a ton of children.
    3. Have sex with her very rarely.

    But Kryptokate talked a lot about Type 2 cheating as well (although she didn’t call it that), and she stated (correctly) that, if the relationship is monogamous, every woman will cheat eventually if all eight of the following things are true at the same time:

    1. The woman is hot.
    2. The woman has a high sex drive.
    3. The woman doesn’t live in a prudish third world society with things like the death penalty for sex before marriage.
    4. The woman isn’t in dirt poverty.
    5. The woman isn’t brainwashed by any religious dogma.
    6. The woman meets a man who is attractive and is clearly attracted to her.
    7. This man is vetted and judged by her to be cool and discreet (a.k.a. secret society)..
    8. She is convinced that she has zero chance of being rejected or getting caught.

    But remember, this doesn’t mean that she is guilty of the type of women’s infidelity that Michelle Langely talks about, and what we’ve been talking about (Type 1 cheating). It doesn’t mean necessarily that she’s no longer attracted to her man, no longer in love with him, or no longer wants to be with him. It could indeed mean all of those things, but it could also be Type 2 cheating, which is the discreet equivalent of an open relationship (even though her man doesn’t know about the open part). That is NOT a problem for the relationship (as long as she doesn’t get caught, of course).

    Obviously, if everyone were simply poly, no one would have to go through this, but, until then, being what I call “discreet poly” is an option too. The two types of cheating may seem identical on the surface, but they are worlds apart. The one thing that everyone agrees is a problem is Type 1 cheating, and that is solved by non-monogamy as well! 🙂

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 01:08 pm, 11th January 2025

    @Daniel:

    I almost forgot. Here are two more books you should definitely add to your reading list on this subject:

    “The State of Affairs” and “Mating in Captivity.”

    Both books are by Esther Perel. I don’t necessarily agree with her entire philosophy or point of view perfectly, but those books are incredibly insightful and well worth reading.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 01:28 pm, 11th January 2025

    Hey Caleb, as per my conversation with Daniel, do you still have Kryptokate’s contact info? I know you’ve done business with her with the whole Girls With Game blog, so I thought I’d ask. If you can contact her in any way, any chance you can invite her here? Lovergirl would be cool too. Just wondering if you know anything current about them.

  • AlphaOmega
    Posted at 05:33 pm, 11th January 2025

    “There is no updated version in the Younger Woman manual because no changes have been needed in the past six years (it’s even easier now).”

    Because of the economical situation?

  • Daniel
    Posted at 09:10 pm, 11th January 2025

    @ Caleb Jones

    @ Jack Outside The Box

    All good points. Routing the conversation back to the original article and feelings, I think that for some of us who adopt this lifestyle it requires knowing themselves fully and where the line is for them to let your emotions go up to and not letting them go beyond that. For instance the MLTR’s that I’ve had in my life and have right now I know I can only allow myself to care about them up to a point. It’s like I keep them at an arms distance emotionally because I know myself and what I’m susceptible to and if I let them get too close, my own biology (which again is how we’re wired to be) will get the better of me. And all the insidious behaviors will creep in (the idealizing, the falling in love, the attachment) and I don’t want to go there. I’ll pull back if I feel I’m even inching toward that. It’s difficult to fight because the want is there (those damn bonding chemicals again) but I know all it will lead to is heartache in the end. So on the one hand I think it’s great that I have such awareness of myself and the foresight to safeguard potential disaster in a way, but on the other hand there’s a disconnect or discontentment with having to keep things so, I won’t say surface level because there is depth to these relationships, but limiting with these women. But there needs to be limits that’s just how I see it. I do wonder just how much that could possibly increase the likelihood of a LSNFTE or at least speed it up. Every time a date ends and we say our goodbyes and they leave I say to myself that could be the last time I ever see her again. And I just sit with that and make peace with it, which I admit isn’t always easy. It’s funny because I never thought that way back in my monogamous days, when I was in love I always expected to see them again even though it was entirely possible that I wouldn’t. Perhaps the whole biology of love depends on the naivety of those involved in order to work for however long it’s supposed to work. Whereas we knowing what we now know are coming up with hacks around it.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 03:54 am, 12th January 2025

    Because of the economical situation?

    I’ve already covered this in detail. Because 1) economics, 2) young men are getting worse, 3) younger women are getting more confident, 4) less stigma on social media, 5) sugar daddy / onlyfans culture.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 03:56 am, 12th January 2025

    For instance the MLTR’s that I’ve had in my life and have right now I know I can only allow myself to care about them up to a point. It’s like I keep them at an arms distance emotionally because I know myself and what I’m susceptible to and if I let them get too close, my own biology (which again is how we’re wired to be) will get the better of me. And all the insidious behaviors will creep in (the idealizing, the falling in love, the attachment) and I don’t want to go there.

    You have control over all of that dude, especially if you follow my models. Remember how I say you can never just say “that’s how I am.”

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 10:43 am, 12th January 2025

    the MLTR’s that I’ve had in my life and have right now I know I can only allow myself to care about them up to a point. It’s like I keep them at an arms distance emotionally because I know myself and what I’m susceptible to and if I let them get too close, my own biology (which again is how we’re wired to be) will get the better of me. And all the insidious behaviors will creep in (the idealizing, the falling in love, the attachment) and I don’t want to go there. I’ll pull back if I feel I’m even inching toward that. It’s difficult to fight because the want is there (those damn bonding chemicals again) but I know all it will lead to is heartache in the end.

    Wait, so you’re saying that you cannot upgrade any of these MLTRs to the status of an OLTR because then you might get too needy? Why would you get too needy if you’re sleeping with other women? It’s not like you’re going to get monogamous with your girlfriend. The relationship will be open, so why not just sleep with one of your casual partners if you feel yourself getting too needy with your OLTR, instead of keeping her at the MLTR level to avoid getting needy?

    But there needs to be limits that’s just how I see it.

    Why? I don’t understand why you can’t allow yourself to fall in love with one of these women and upgrade her to OLTR. Neediness is a symptom of monogamy, or her being your only one. But she won’t be your only one because the relationship will be open! So why not upgrade and prevent a LSNFTE (assuming she qualifies for an OLTR upgrade, of course)? Feel needy? Have sex with one of your others. Have a threesome with two friends with benefits, then come back home to your serious girlfriend.

    It’s a little hard to get needy in the way that you fear if you’re casually sleeping with others, wouldn’t you say?

    Every time a date ends and we say our goodbyes and they leave I say to myself that could be the last time I ever see her again. And I just sit with that and make peace with it, which I admit isn’t always easy.

    Yeah, I struggle with that too because ghosting is so excruciatingly painful to me. Even five years ago, ghosting wasn’t too much of a problem, but nowadays everyone seems to be doing it. Having a great time with a girl and then her just ghosting me without any closure or explanation is harsh! I too am struggling here, so I understand that part.

    It’s funny because I never thought that way back in my monogamous days, when I was in love I always expected to see them again even though it was entirely possible that I wouldn’t.

    Huh? You’re saying it’s possible for a SERIOUS GIRLFRIEND to just ghost you???? Dude, that’s a whole new level of cruelty that I never even considered! That has NEVER happened to me, and I can’t imagine a SERIOUS LIFE PARTNER doing that. THAT’S INSANE!

    And yeah, I’m not sure I understand why you would revert back to being a needy beta just because you fell in love with a woman and made her your serious girlfriend in an open relationship. Avoiding monogamy means avoiding neediness and oneitis. And you have plenty of non-monogamous options. You can choose an open relationship (OLTR), a “don’t ask, don’t tell” arrangement, or even discreet poly (Type 2 cheating) to avoid monogamy.

    But regardless of what you choose, as long as you avoid actual monogamy, I see your fears as unfounded. Just my opinion.

  • Daniel
    Posted at 02:17 pm, 12th January 2025

    @ Caleb Jones

    @ Jack Outside The Box

    I’m not sure you guys are following me.. It’s not that I can’t control the emotions, I can. It’s that the results of that control causes me a level of unhappiness at times despite the fact that I wanted and implemented the control. It’s hard to explain but it’s the long and arduous process of letting go of a lifetime of Disney and thinking that a woman would stick around when I now know she won’t. The fact that the relationships are sexually open is not the issue. It’s the building emotional closeness and history with one particular favorite and then having that woman eventually leave. Which the odds are overwhelming she will, as Caleb has pointed out all relationships under the age of about 60 are temporary. I accept that reality which is why I conduct my dating life the way I do. MLTR’s or OLTR doesn’t matter, I trust women to be women. And women leave. I enjoy them up to a point but then I emotionally swerve away. I’m not going to emotionally invest too much in something I know is going to crash. So for me there’s a sadness that goes along with that acceptance. And Jack, I wasn’t saying that a long time girlfriend ever ghosted me personally. That’s not what I was implying. What I meant was that a woman can make the decision to stop seeing a man at any given time for any reason and unbeknownst to that man. When you’re under the delusional spell of monogamy and “forever” that doesn’t cross your mind at all. “She could never do that! We’re in love! Everything we share together, we’re so close and good together, blah blah blah..” that’s what the monogamous guy is thinking! When in reality, whatever the last time is that he sees a woman could be the last time he see her as the happy loving girl he’s known her to be with him. Because then like a light switch she can start acting different, cold, and not want anything to do with him. So with that knowledge as a now non monogamous guy I always end my dates thinking to myself well if that’s the last time I see that one I have to be ok with that. But I’m not always ok with it even though it’s the cold hard truth.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 05:48 am, 13th January 2025

    I’m not sure you guys are following me.. It’s not that I can’t control the emotions, I can. It’s that the results of that control causes me a level of unhappiness at times despite the fact that I wanted and implemented the control.

    That’s still emotions and you have some control over that too.

    You’re just making excuses at this point.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 06:36 am, 13th January 2025

    So, I know that you have your “history with women” series, but I’m curious: Do you have any examples from your distant past when you were an outcome dependent and/or needy beta (not necessarily with women, but with other men or life in general)? And are there any examples of you coming to grieve because of these stupid emotional reactions? Like, you lost a job because of it, or something? Or were you always a drama hater?

    Lots of examples of when I was under age 23-24, yes, many, in business and personally. Absolutely. I would be outcome dependent, lose my cool, fuck something up, and really regretted it.

    That’s why, unlike you, I made the decision to become outcome independent so I could be happy and stop doing that shit, which I did by age 25 or so.

    Also Caleb, what do you say to people saying, “I’m only human. Of course, certain things are going to traumatize me or make me angry.”

    My standard response: saying “that’s just how I am” is the most disempowering, inaccurate, and lazy mindsets to have in life.

    It’s just an excuse for weakness.

    Do you see the value in having a support network of friends and family?

    Yes, this is very important. My new book coming out soon directly addresses this. Humans need love.

    However “friends and family” could be 12 people or it could be 2 people; it doesn’t have to be a big group.

    Or do you think that anyone who needs friends or family for emotional support, or to calm down, is a needy pussy?

    If you need it for emotional support, no.

    If you need it to “calm down,” yes, you’re lazy angry beta or a lazy Alpha 1.0 and you’ll never be happy unless you decide to change like I did.

    Would you lean on a serious girlfriend or wife during tough times, or is that needy/beta/pathetic in your eyes?

    During tough times, sure. If I’m just angry about some little thing, no.

  • N1
    Posted at 11:27 am, 13th January 2025

    @ Jack Outside the Box
    > What rules did you have? There are no rules within an MLTR arrangement.
    > MLTR. That means she can sleep with, and even fall in love with, whoever else she wants! Are you saying her being monogamous to you was one of the rules? That’s not an MLTR arrangement then. That’s a one way open relationship. But since she wasn’t your girlfriend, she had every right to be upset with you telling her who she can or cannot sleep with.
    > Well if you are trying to block her from other men, despite her being your MLTR, then it makes sense why she’d want to destroy her attraction for you so she can be with other men without the apparent hypocrisy that you were exhibiting, unless I’m missing something here.

    I had a high-end MLTR (many years) and was temporarily too busy to upgrade her to an oLTR. So we agreed simple ground rules to be each others primaries. e.g. contact other people much less, use condoms, don’t see the other people more than once a week, prioritize each other in scheduling, don’t hook up with friends et.c.
    She completely ignored the rules. As she wanted to be my oLTR, she was upset and started the ‘LSNFTE process’ by seeing other guys, with an subconscious urge to replace me.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 07:28 am, 16th January 2025

    I had a high-end MLTR (many years) and was temporarily too busy to upgrade her to an oLTR. So we agreed simple ground rules to be each others primaries. e.g. contact other people much less, use condoms, don’t see the other people more than once a week, prioritize each other in scheduling, don’t hook up with friends et.c

    In other words, she WAS your OLTR. You just perfectly described what an OLTR is. Being each others’ primaries and having only casual sex with others means you two were boyfriend and girlfriend within an open relationship (emotionally monogamous and sexually polyamorous).

    But you refused to verbalize it, refused to call her your girlfriend, and refused to allow her to call you her boyfriend. I don’t know why. It’s the same thing. With what you described, she certainly wasn’t your MLTR anymore. In an MLTR, there are no “primaries” or such ground rules. So you gave her all the rights and privileges of being a serious girlfriend, as well as all the rules and responsibilities of being a serious girlfriend, but you refused to publicly acknowledge it, as if you were ashamed of her in her eyes.

    .

    She completely ignored the rules. As she wanted to be my oLTR, she was upset

    No shit! Why should she follow your girlfriend rules and not be officially acknowledged as your girlfriend? That is indeed insulting. You wanted to have your cake and eat it too.

    and started the ‘LSNFTE process’ by seeing other guys, with an subconscious urge to replace me.

    I doubt there was anything subconscious about it. When you say “seeing” other guys, you mean dating them, or doing more than just sleeping with them? Right, because if you treat her like an MLTR, then why the fuck should she be robbed of her rights and freedoms as an MLTR in the form of you shackling her with OLTR rules?

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 07:55 am, 16th January 2025

    The fact that the relationships are sexually open is not the issue.

    It’s not the whole issue, but it is a huge part of it.

    It’s the building emotional closeness and history with one particular favorite and then having that woman eventually leave. Which the odds are overwhelming she will, as Caleb has pointed out all relationships under the age of about 60 are temporary.

    But there are different degrees of “temporary.” A monogamous relationship may last for only 3 years, or sometimes only 3 months, before the woman gets bored and turned off by you. But an open relationship might last for 15, or even 20, years. Sure, everything is temporary, but I think now you’re just being greedy, lol!

    I trust women to be women. And women leave.

    But it will be a long while before they leave in an OLTR. Sure, they’ll LSNFTE you eventually for some monogamous smooth talker who will flatter her ego and whisper in her ear – “If you were mine, you’d be too precious to share with other men, like a beautiful diamond whom I would never part with” – but a year later she’ll get bored with his needy ass and come back to you. So even when she leaves you, she’s not really leaving you.

    I think you’re too scared of even a temporary break. But trust me, whether she’s your OLTR or a monogamous girlfriend matters A LOT in this conversation. You’re right. It’s still hard for you to let go of the Disney forever dream. You’ve let go of it intellectually, but not with your whole heart yet.

    I enjoy them up to a point but then I emotionally swerve away. I’m not going to emotionally invest too much in something I know is going to crash.

    Why would it crash? See above.

    So for me there’s a sadness that goes along with that acceptance.

    A sadness that she’ll be your OLTR for 15 years instead of forever? A sadness that she’ll LSNFTE you for a year and then come back? Really?

    What I meant was that a woman can make the decision to stop seeing a man at any given time for any reason and unbeknownst to that man.

    You can make that same decision about her. No one is anyone else’s prisoner. It’s called freedom, and it’s a risk you take with every human being on the planet that you have any connection with. Ghosting is the only thing I’m struggling with, but you seem to be struggling with the “there’s no such thing as forever” concept. You’d be a lot happier if you’d emotionally get over these Disney myths. Getting over them would allow you to allow yourself to experience genuine and mutual love with a woman, even if it won’t last forever.

    When you’re under the delusional spell of monogamy and “forever” that doesn’t cross your mind at all. “She could never do that!

    Yeah, Disney delusions lead to right wing patriarchal tyranny., and laws which facilitate that tyranny (see Saudi Arabia).

    We’re in love! Everything we share together, we’re so close and good together, blah blah blah..” that’s what the monogamous guy is thinking! When in reality, whatever the last time is that he sees a woman could be the last time he see her as the happy loving girl he’s known her to be with him. Because then like a light switch she can start acting different, cold, and not want anything to do with him.

    Well, it’s not like a light switch. As I explained, it’s a long and gradual process and you need to train yourself to see the subtle signs. When you do see them, that is your cue to switch things up and do something spontaneous because she’s getting bored. Michelle Langely talks about it at length. The good news for you is that it’s much easier to prevent her from getting bored in an OLTR. Propose a threesome, go to a swingers party, etc….

    So with that knowledge as a now non monogamous guy I always end my dates thinking to myself well if that’s the last time I see that one I have to be ok with that. But I’m not always ok with it even though it’s the cold hard truth.

    Then your only problem is that you haven’t fully let go of Disney monogamy in your deepest heart. That’s what you have to work on next. When you do, a whole new world of love and happiness will open up for you, I promise.

  • Jack Outside the Box
    Posted at 11:20 am, 16th January 2025

    I understand exactly what you’re saying and I would find it irritating and rude, but I wouldn’t lose my mind over this stuff like you do, because I’m outcome independent and you’re not.

    I’ve always seen it as me having a strong sense of justice. It’s part of the reason I eventually became an attorney. I get angry when I see injustices, whether against me or others. People viciously disagree with what constitutes justice or injustice, but when my own sense of it is violated, I get very sad and angry when I can’t make it right. I feel as if I at least have to try for the sake of something greater than myself. It’s not religious at all, but it’s definitely spiritual. It’s a sense of being connected to a universal energy that we’re all connected to in ways. It’s hard to explain. If you just want to chalk it up to outcome dependence, I guess I can’t stop you, but I think it’s more than that.

    Lots of examples of when I was under age 23-24, yes, many, in business and personally. Absolutely. I would be outcome dependent, lose my cool, fuck something up, and really regretted it.

    Can you share one specific story in detail (perhaps in a separate blog post) when you REALLY regretted it because the consequences were super unpleasant because you got fired from a job or something like that?

    My standard response: saying “that’s just how I am” is the most disempowering, inaccurate, and lazy mindsets to have in life.

    It’s just an excuse for weakness.

    I need to side with Tucker Carlson on this one. I believe that individuals were made for different things. Some have an innate talent for manual labor and enjoy building skyscrapers. Others would hate that and be terrible at it because their innate talents involve talking, teaching, arguing, debating, and mental strain, which the first group of people would dismiss as nerdy.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not some Sam Harris acolyte who believes there’s no such thing as free will. Of course there is. But I think you take it too far, as I believe that nature and DNA plays a role in what you, as a separate individual, are capable of and have an aptitude for vs. a different individual. I don’t think you can fully conquer your true self, but I do agree that you can do a lot of great things with your free will and proper teaching, like going from beta to alpha. Just not everything.

    Yes, this is very important. My new book coming out soon directly addresses this. Humans need love.

    However “friends and family” could be 12 people or it could be 2 people; it doesn’t have to be a big group.

    Do you have any male friends, Caleb? I’m a huge believer in found families, or non-biological chosen families.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 11:40 am, 16th January 2025

    Can you share one specific story in detail (perhaps in a separate blog post) when you REALLY regretted it because the consequences were super unpleasant because you got fired from a job or something like that?

    I don’t see how that would be helpful to the wider audience, but I’ll consider it.

    I need to side with Tucker Carlson on this one.

    The guy who believes UFOs are angels and demons and who thinks government should provide UBI to 1 million truck drivers when self-driving cars put them out of business?

    Great.

    I believe that individuals were made for different things. Some have an innate talent for manual labor and enjoy building skyscrapers. Others would hate that and be terrible at it because their innate talents involve talking, teaching, arguing, debating, and mental strain, which the first group of people would dismiss as nerdy.

    Correct. That has nothing to do with justifying your weaknesses that make you unhappy.

    I don’t think you can fully conquer your true self

    Correct, you can’t. Once again you strawman. I never said to fully conquer yourself. I’ve said you can greatly improve (but probably not eliminate) any big problem you have internally that causes you unhappiness, and I’m right. But you’ll never do this if you say “that’s just how I am” which is a pussy statement of surrender.

    Do you have any male friends, Caleb?

    Yes, a few casual friends and a few business buddies. None I would consider super duper close though.

  • Caleb Jones
    Posted at 04:16 am, 17th January 2025

    I’ve seen men of all success levels fall to oneitis. Will Smith, who was my inspiration growing up, is a perfect example of what happens when you keep a goofy woman in your life who hates you.

    Correct. Strong Alpha 1.0s fall to oneitis and clinginess all the time.

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