03 Apr Divorce and Monogamy Statistics – Updated for 2025
Reading Time – 13 Minutes
For many years at my blogs, I compiled numerous statistics regarding the skyrocketing divorce rate all over the Western world, as well as girlfriend-boyfriend breakup rates and rates of people in monogamous relationships (married or not) cheating on each other.
As you might imagine, these stats showed the vast majority of people in the Western world eventually cheat and/or break up/get divorced.
And frankly, most people outside the West didn’t do much better.
This is because long-term monogamy doesn’t work in free societies. After all, humans were never designed for such a thing.
I also published at least two detailed articles with conglomerations of stats about this way back in 2014.
In places like the USA, Canada, Australia, and all of Europe, divorce rates just kept climbing and climbing as hundreds of millions of irrational morons, uh, I mean people all over the world tried to prove that long-term monogamy worked “as long as you’re a good spouse” or “as long as you marry the right person” or “as long as she hasn’t fucked too many guys before you” or “as long as you’re a Christian” or “as long as you stay Alpha” or “as long as you’re red pill/purple pill” or various other Societal Programming-based bullshit fairytale excuses with no data to back up anything they were saying.
And these millions upon millions of people kept getting divorced and broken up by the truckload.
Since many of you asked, this is my official update for all of those statistics.
I would love to say that things have gotten better since 2014, but now that the collapse of the Western world, including cultural collapse has kicked into high gear, I’ll give you the end of the story right now which should be obvious at this point: while less people are getting married, divorce rates among people who actually do get married have continued to skyrocket all over the planet since 2014.
My God. Even after all of this time, even after people like me have talked about this for decades, even after everyone sees everyone else around them constantly break up and/or get divorced, most people still haven’t learned a damn thing.
First, the statistics, then the calculations and conclusions, with Perplexity.ai assisting me. If you didn’t know, Perplexity is different than AIs like ChatGPT or Grok because Perplexity must show you links to everything it says, which of course I researched in detail.
For the nitpickers, sources for the following statistics were from these organizations: The OECD, World Population Review, Divorce.com, Pew Research Center, cision.com, Gov.uk, Countryeconomy.com, Reserachgate.net, UK Office for National Statistics, Statistics Canada, the CDC, the Journal of Marriage and Family, Demographic Research, Technopedia, and a few others I’m forgetting.
As always when I quote stats, if you think they’re wrong, feel free to use your own Google or AI search tools to verify anything I’m saying, and you’ll quickly see I’m either 100% right or just slightly off.
The Crude Divorce Rate vs. The Real Divorce Rate
One big improvement since 2014 is that statisticians have finally started to admit that the standard divorce rate, which is calculated by the number of divorces in a given time frame divided by the number of people in a country, usually doesn’t mean shit.
If fewer people get married this “divorce rate” will go down. Then all the tradcons and Christians can point at it and scream, “SEE??? The divorce rate is going DOWN Caleb!” (Yes, they actually said this. A lot.)
Um, that doesn’t mean the divorce rate went down. It just means fewer people are getting married, therefore there are fewer divorces per capita.
The important metric here is only the percentage of people who get actually married who then later get divorced.
Of course, I was saying this 15 years ago, so it’s nice that the researchers have finally caught up.
Researchers now call this bullshit per capita “divorce rate” the “crude” divorce rate. Good for them.
The crude divorce rate is useless for looking at divorce trends moving up or down. It is only useful when comparing large, similar countries against each other (and even then it can be dicey).
Divorce Stats As of 2025
Here then are the fun stats regarding divorce. The first one is the most important in this article. The rest are listed in no particular order.
1. This one is the killer. As of 2023, the global average crude divorce rate has increased over the past several years from 1.6 per 1,000 people to 1.8 per 1,000 people even though worldwide marriage rates have plummeted and the rate of people getting married is currently at the lowest point in recorded history.
Time to do some simple math. The number of people worldwide getting married has gone DOWN but yet the per capita divorce rate has still gone UP.
This means that there is such a massive increase in the number of people getting divorced that there are more divorced people now even though there are fewer people getting married.
Isn’t that insane?
Honestly, even I expected per capita divorce rates to decrease worldwide as fewer people get married. Yet, divorce has become so rampant the per capita divorce rates are still increasing.
Jesus.
2. As of 2023 studies show that couples married after the year 2000 continue to have a higher divorce rate compared to those married in earlier decades. Marriages are now 10% less likely to reach their 25th anniversary than those that took place in the 1990s.
3. The UK divorce rate has shown a slight upward trend, with approximately 42% of marriages ending in divorce as of 2024. This is, yet again, even though fewer people in the UK are getting married. (Insane.)
4. Canada’s divorce rate is 40% and is rising in most provinces, particularly with people married less than 5 years.
5. The “grey divorce” phenomenon, meaning people who divorce over age 50, remains a significant rising trend in the US, Canada, and the UK.
According to the researchers, the factors contributing to this include increased life expectancy, changing expectations in later life, and greater financial independence for women. I agree with this assessment.
That being said, another factor (that I’ve discussed before) is that many women in their 50s today, for the first time in human history, are still able to maintain their appearance and look decently attractive.
Decades ago, women over 50 looked like fat old ladies. Today they look like Nicole Kidman.
Fat old ladies know they can’t get a new husband easily if they divorce the beta male schlub husband they’re currently putting up with. But women in their 50s who look like Cate Blanchett or Sandra Bullock have no problem doing this, so they divorce their hubbies and move on to new men just like women in their 20s or 30s would.
Shit, even my mom divorced my dad when she was in her seventies, and she was able to scoop up a new husband instantly because, for a woman her age, she looked pretty good (vibrant, skinny, physically fit, facelift, etc). Old ladies in the past could not do this.
6. More than 60% of spouses married at 20-25 years old in the US will divorce. This is actually an artificially low number as I’ll show in a minute.
7. The average age at first divorce in America is 30 years. This is pretty sad; I figured it would be higher. Too many young people are still stupidly getting married.
8. The average length of marriage before divorce or separation in the US is eight years. This has been the norm for a long time.
9. Nearly 70% of divorces in the United States are initiated by women.
Again, another stat that has held strong since the 90s. As I’ve said hundreds of times, men cheat, women leave, and they’ve both been biologically hard-wired to do these things for over 150,000 years.
Women are biologically wired to get bored with a monogamous live-in husband or boyfriend and eventually leave him to get with a new sexual partner so she can feel normal and vibrant again. Read The Unchained Man for more details on this.
10. Many scholars believe that high divorce rates in Western countries are a result of the diminished stigma associated with divorce, increased financial independence among women, and in some countries, low cost of divorce, like Denmark and Sweden, where spouses can get divorced for roughly $100(!).
Conversely, things like strong religion, strict local divorce laws, lack of social support for divorcees, and lack of employment opportunities for divorced people, particularly women, tend to reduce divorce rates.
I’ve addressed this before many times; live in a free culture with sky-high divorce rates, or live in an unfree oppressive culture with low divorce rates
Pick one because you can’t have both.
I’m a minarchist libertarian so I choose to live in a free culture no matter what, but many authoritarian Trump types, uh, I mean traditional conservatives disagree with that.
11. Infidelity is the stated reason for 59.6% of divorces. Of course. Monogamy doesn’t work. Men will eventually cheat, as they were designed to do, and even women will eventually cheat, although it takes them longer.
The second stated reason for divorce is “marrying too young” at 45.1%. Again, yes. I’ve said many times it’s insane for a man to marry a woman under the age of 25 if he lives in the Western world. I don’t care how hot she is, you’ll be divorced in just a few years you moron.
12. One of the reasons for the spike in divorces in the UK was following changes in divorce laws and the introduction of “no-fault” divorce, something the USA has had for a very long time.
If you don’t know, “no-fault” divorce means that it’s literally “no one’s fault” in the eyes of the government so everything is 50/50 split down the middle regardless of the reason for the divorce.
So if you’re a perfect husband but your wife starts fucking everyone at her work, starts slapping your kids around, starts smoking cigarettes around them, and starts drinking heavily, and then you get divorced, it’s “not her fault” so she gets half of all of your money and there’s nothing you can do about it.
And you go to jail if you don’t pay her.
Isn’t that nice?
Still want to get married?
13. This is another one that drives Christians, right-wingers, and tradcons insane whenever I bring it up, but it’s a fact that can’t be argued with. Updated in 2023, the presence of children adds stress to a marriage, and the divorce rate among couples with children under 18 remains elevated compared to childless couples. Couples are 20% more likely to divorce when children are in the home, and this number climbs the younger the children are.
Yup. Having kids increases the odds of divorce, at least in the Western world. Sorry folks, it’s a fact.
In my first marriage, I had kids (and they were both good kids).
In my second marriage, I don’t.
Which marriage do you think has been easier, more enjoyable, less drama, more sexual, more loving, more spiritually satisfying, and has lasted longer?
My second one, of course, by all of those metrics. Pink Firefly are still together to this day… but I honestly don’t know if that would be the case if we had had kids together.
Highest Per Capita Divorce Rates In The World
This is the crude divorce rate, so be aware of that, but I did state that you can (somewhat) use this rate when comparing other countries to each other.
As stated above, the world average divorce rate is 1.8 (and rising). With that in mind, here are the top 13 highest divorce rate countries in the world right now, with their divorce rates.
#1 Russia – 3.9
#2 Moldova – 3.8
#3 Georgia – 3.8
#4 Belarus – 3.7
#5 China – 3.2
#6 Ukraine – 3.1
#7 Cuba – 2.9
#8 Lithuania – 2.8
#9 USA – 2.8
#10 Canada – 2.8
#11 Denmark – 2.7
#12 Sweden – 2.5
#13 Finland – 2.4
Um… over the past 15 years, what type of women have I been consistently telling you guys to not date?
Russian women.
And similar.
Well, look at the top 4 highest divorce rate countries. And #6. And #8. What do they all have in common?
Is this Russian woman thing getting through your head yet?
And again, the USA is ranked at #10 in the entire world, with Canada at #11. Great job guys! Don’t worry, I’m sure Trump will fix it!
And look, Scandinavia sucks too! Yay for socialism and the welfare state! Good job as usual, Europe!
Break-Up Stats for Non-Married Cohabiting Couples
Just because many people are avoiding legal marriage doesn’t mean they’re not still settling down monogamously.
They’re just moving in together as monogamous couples, which, as I’ve shown on my blogs for years, is pretty much just as bad.
Long-term monogamy doesn’t start magically working just because you don’t sign a marriage license. You’ll still break up, cheat, have drama, etc.
I’ll give you the most important stat first.
1. Cohabiting relationships are significantly less stable than marriages. Studies consistently show that cohabiting relationships have a higher likelihood of dissolution compared to marriages. Approximately 40% of cohabitating couples break up within 5 years.
2. Most cohabiting relationships are relatively short-lived. The median duration is about 2 years, with a significant decline in relationship satisfaction after the first year.
Again, holy shit.
3. Roughly 30% of cohabitating couples with children break up within 5 years.
As usual, kids make all of this worse (at least in the Western world; if you want kids, do it internationally, with a non-Western woman, as far away from the West as you can).
4. Younger cohabiting couples (under age 26) have the highest breakup rates, with over 60% dissolving within 3 years.
Will kids never learn? Do you see why you shouldn’t have a girlfriend until you’re at least 30?
5. Couples experiencing any sort of financial stress are 50% more likely to separate within a year.
Do you think over the next 10-15 years there will be more or less “financial stress?”
6. In Canada as of 2023, data suggests a rising trend in the breakdown of common-law relationships, particularly among younger couples. Cohabiting relationships are about 3X more likely to dissolve than legal marriages, even without the legal ramifications.
7. In the UK as of 2024, the dissolution of civil partnerships in the UK has shown “a slight upward trend.”
I like they try to make it not sound bad. Funny side point: the research was sure to add “even though civil partnerships have provided legal recognition for same-sex couples.”
Yay. As I said 10 years ago, “Great, now gay people can suffer the devastation of divorce just like us straight people. Great plan!”
Cheating Statistics
This is not an article on cheating, but since I stumbled across a few of these I’ll throw them in as a bonus.
Remember, even if you never get divorced from your spouse, if either of you ever cheats, then the relationship is no longer monogamous and the monogamy has failed.
For long-term monogamy to succeed, you AND your spouse must stay married FOREVER (40-50 years or more), AND, neither one of you can EVER cheat during that ENTIRE time.
Good luck with that.
Stats:
1. In a statistical league table of which countries cheat the most, the U.S. comes in first place in the entire world, with a staggering 71% of people surveyed admitting to cheating. Germany and the U.K. come in close behind, with 68% and 66%, respectively.
Good job Americans! Nice to see you’re still number one at something!
2. A 2023 survey by Solitaire Bliss, which polled nearly 2,000 Americans, found Texas, Alabama, and Nebraska to be the top states for infidelity. Additional data highlights Columbus, Ohio, and the Florida cities of Miami and Orlando as having the highest rates of unfaithful partners.
Hey, wait a minute. I thought all of you guys who live in Florida and Texas are “okay” and “don’t suffer from the woke cultural collapse like the rest of America does.”
Really? Hmmmmmmmmm?
3. Here’s my favorite. 18.6% of European men don’t consider sexual intercourse as cheating. And 14.4% of European women think the same. Ha!
4. Here’s my second favorite. On the flip side, 43.5% of American women consider going out as friends to be a form of cheating. This is compared to just 23.4% of European women.
Oh. My. God.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when the European man explains to his wife that his fucking another woman isn’t cheating, and I equally want to hear the American wife’s reasons why her husband going to the grocery store with one of his platonic female friends is literally cheating on her.
As usual in the modern area, both sides are completely insane.
The REAL Odds of You Getting Divorced
As I’ve explained many times, the overall divorce rate (crude or otherwise) actually does not represent your odds of getting a divorce if you’re dumb enough to get legally monogamously married in the Western world.
Instead, your odds are much higher. This is because your marriage doesn’t last just one year for the statisticians to gather their data.
Instead, your marriage is supposed to last about 48 years. This is based on the average age of marriage today (age 30) and average life expectancy (age 78).
That means you need to consistently dodge divorce not just for one year, or two, or even eight or nine years to be successful.
No, you need to consistently avoid divorce for 48 years. (Again, good luck with that.)
So working with Perplexity with all of the stats loaded up, I asked it what the actual, real odds of divorce were if one was married from age 30 to age 78, 48 full years, assuming current trends hold. Here’s what it said:
Okay, let’s estimate the odds of divorce in the U.S. over the next 48 years from married at age 30 to life expectancy age at 78, considering available data and assuming current trends persist. This is an estimate with inherent uncertainties.
Assumptions:
Current “Real” Divorce Rate Among Married Couples: Based on the compiled data, we are assuming that roughly 60-70% of first marriages in the US end in divorce eventually.
Impact of “Grey Divorce”: The rise in “grey divorce” means that even marriages that last 20+ years are increasingly vulnerable.
Longer Lifespans: People are living longer, increasing the window of opportunity for divorce.
Economic Factors: Assuming moderate economic fluctuations, these factors will continue to play a role.
Calculation:
Initial Marriage: A person gets married in the US at age 30, the average age of most marriages.
48-Year Window: We are considering the odds of divorce within the next 48 years, from age 30 to age 78. Breaking down the 48-year window:
Years 1-10: Highest risk period. 20% to 30% of marriages end within the first 10 years.
Years 11-20: Risk decreases slightly, but “grey divorce” starts to become a factor. Another 15% to 20% may divorce.
Years 21-30: Grey divorce becomes more prominent. Another 10% to 15% may divorce.
Years 31-40: The marriage has lasted a long time, but grey divorce still poses a risk. Another 5% to 10% may divorce.
Years 41-48 (life expectancy age 78): Divorce is still possible, but most couples who make it this far will remain married. The likelihood of divorce at this stage is significantly reduced. 1-5% may divorce.
Total Estimated Probability:
Adding these probabilities together, we get a rough estimate:
30% + 20% + 15% + 10% +5% = 80%
Conclusion:
Based on these assumptions and calculations, the estimated odds of a person who gets married in the United States at average age of marriage eventually getting divorced, assuming current trends persist and a high “real” divorce rate, is approximately 80%.
Important Caveat: This is a rough estimate based on current trends and available data. Future social, economic, and legal changes could significantly impact divorce rates.
That’s right Perplexity, future social, economic, and legal changes are going to get even worse as the Western world continues to collapse, which means lifetime divorce rates are going to keep going up.
Now I’ll add something to this.
My issue, as always, isn’t marriage per se. Shit, I’m married. OLTR Marriage can be wonderful provided your finances are 100% protected in the case of a divorce AND you’re allowed to have sex with other women whenever you want like I can.
My issue is not marriage, it’s long-term monogamy. That’s what doesn’t work.
Again, if you’re married forever but one or both of you has ever cheated, you can say you’re married but you can’t say you’re monogamous, because you’re not.
Based on all of the cheating stats I pulled, a rough estimate is that if you are in a long-term monogamous relationship that lasts many decades the odds are around 71% that at least one of you will cheat during the marriage or relationship.
This is actually a little lower than my estimates back in 2014 which showed an approximate 77% cheating occurance, so perhaps I was a little off back then.
But if your real odds of a divorce throughout the entire marriage are 80% and your odds of an affair (regardless of which of you cheat) is 71%, then if you crunch both numbers, what is the overall failure rate of a monogamous marriage?
94%.
That means only about 6% of people in the modern-day Western world actually make long-term monogamy in a marriage or marriage-like relationship work.
Again, good luck with that.
Or, you can be an adult and stay non-monogamous like us Alpha Male 2.0s and avoid all of this bullshit.
It’s a pretty good life. You should try it.
Leave your comment below, but be sure to follow the Five Simple Rules.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 12:30 pm, 3rd April 2025I am surprised to see China and Cuba so high. Any idea why?
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 02:59 pm, 3rd April 2025This is great news! Marriage is an out of date concept that makes literally no sense! Inviting the government into your bedroom and signing legal papers because you’re “so in love” has always made me laugh. And the medieval concept of “weddings” where you bare your soul in front of an audience, need the approval of the “community,” kiss in front of your mom and dad and your whole family, and rely on some stranger in a funny hat to bless your relationship (as if you can’t bless it yourself), represents low self esteem and a need for external communitarian validation.
Time to admit that marriage is a relic from the middle ages that was only meant to make sure, in front of witnesses, that the two people having children are committed, because having sex and having children were the same thing in a world without birth control. Time to evolve.
And monogamy? Let’s be real about this too – No one wants monogamy. The people who say they do want DISCRETION! Not everyone is psychologically constituted for open relationships in which both partners are casually sleeping with others proudly in front of each other. Most “monogamous” couples simply want discretion. If they sleep with others (which they will), they don’t want their main partner knowing about it. Which is fine with me.
For this reason, (1) open poly, (2) don’t ask, don’t left relationships, and (3) “monogamous cheating relationships” are all the same, except with different levels of discretion from one’s partner. People are different, and some want to “stay classy” by keeping their extracurricular activities away from their primary relationship. And that’s okay. So, I’m cool with monogamy AS LONG AS YOU’RE CHEATING, which makes it an open relationship, except with one extra level of discretion.
Most people need delusions in order to mask their true natures that they don’t have the psychological strength to face. Monogamy is a fine delusion,. It only becomes a problem when the lie works too well and people start to act on it literally by consciously avoiding cheating, thus leading to misery, fights, and break ups. People become cranky when their natures are violated and, in order to avoid going insane, they need an outlet (cheating). Avoiding that leads to misery, fighting, and even physical abuse, all because the two people believe in the lie too much, and not just as a face saving veil to cover up their true selves.
The longer I live, the more I see that there are two types of people – those who can face their own selves and those who can’t. Those who can are able to be sexually open without shame. Those who can’t need a veil, while discreetly being told that their true selves are okay, but just be classy and discreet about it. Nothing wrong with that (plus, being discreetly naughty is hot!). The only problem is the third group who believe the lie so much that if they even think about cheating, they hate themselves, avoid it, and let out their frustrations on their partner in less discreet and less healthy ways. This explains all the misery, break ups, and divorces.
The good news is that more and more people (from Gen Z especially) are becoming more tolerant of polyamory and even discreet don’t ask, don’t tell arrangements. The children give me hope!
AlphaOmega
Posted at 07:13 am, 4th April 2025“And monogamy? Let’s be real about this too – No one wants monogamy.”
Most women want serial monogamy, which is what they do without caring if the other party agrees. I would argue this is not monogamy but anyway.
“The people who say they do want DISCRETION”
This is what women want, most women are absolutely ok with the partner having other women, even secretly prefer it, often not admitting it to themselves but they dont want to know about it and especially dont want anyone else to know about it from their circles.
Men on the other hand mostly don’t want their partner to have someone else at all, discretion or not. Only very highly emotionally mature men are ok with discretion but this is not most men.
Your ideas work in theory but it is a bit off as far as reality is concerned. You describe the case of wise and emotional mature couples which is not and is likely not going to be the case for the vast majority of population, but for the readers here it can be.
The question here is whether for most couples this should be explicitly discussed and agreed or if it is enough if it is implied. I have seen for most people implied would work but there is a significant minority who would absolutely freak out if they find out it happens and was not explicitly agreed, as far as I am able to tell its almost impossible to tell who is going to react how without discussing explicitly, but one can ask clever questions, I suppose.
As for marriage there is a cultural aspect also but nowadays many people are realizing even women they don’t need marriage provided they have the married life which they realize is the reason for wanting marriage (living together, financial and life decisions together, having children etc), these people are still a minority but it is now a significant minority in much of the west and is growing.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:46 pm, 4th April 2025Yes. China because of more freedoms given to women in their society and having a society move too quickly from the 1800s to the 21st century. Cuba is largely economic reasons.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:52 pm, 4th April 2025Correct, but most people still aren’t going to admit this.
The societal programming around marriage is just too strong.
Incorrect. You’re talking about men. As someone else already stated, women want serial/temporary monogamy, and yes, they really do want this. They’re not “faking it for societal reasons” (at least not most women).
I’d say that’s probably true, at least today in the Collapsing West, yes.
Ehhh yeah, but, the problem is hordes of men and women in that same generation are saying no to sex altogether, even more so than the millennials did which was already ridiculous.
Not a great sign.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:56 pm, 4th April 2025Those are several different categories of women: those who prefer it, those who will do it if they have to and tolerate it, those who will never do it, etc.
But yes, most women fall into one of the two first categories.
Correct, and this will never change. It’s hard-wired OBW.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 02:26 pm, 4th April 2025Be careful that you don’t allow your current living arrangements to color your judgment on this issue. If you live in Dubai, I can see why you’d think that, but here in America, even more and more women are starting to admit that marriage is just a pointless ritual. There is no need to make anything “formal” about one’s personal life, involve the government, or involve public displays with the woman wearing a Halloween costume. Most women who still yearn for such a thing just want one day where all eyes are on her and she’s the queen for the day.
I would argue that most mainstream women want serial monogamy with an option to cheat, at least on occasion. They just don’t want their boyfriends fucking around. Even if the woman never cheats herself (highly unlikely not to if the relationship lasts long enough), she still wants the option, just as a security blanket.
I would argue that third world countries, and countries outside the West in general, are way more steeped in old fashioned societal programming, obsolete religious traditions, anti-individualistic community ties, and cultural collectivism that prevent free thinking more so than in the West. But there’s plenty of western societal programming as well, obviously.
Okay, here’s my take on that: I think there is a selection event going on with GenZ wherein no one is going to have sex, unless they really, really want to. And I’m okay with that because that prevents hypocrisy. I hate half measures. If you’re going to have a sex life, you SHOULD be super horny and have a rotation of lovers. The idea that people who aren’t interested in that lifestyle are just not going to have sex at all, actually makes me smile, because it means we get to cut through the bullshit. I’d love to live in a world where everyone who is sexually active leads our lifestyle, and if they don’t, they just don’t have sex at all, thus cutting out hypocrisy and half measures.
It’s just like conservative Christians whining about the loss of the “sanctity of marriage.” I keep telling them that in order to restore the sanctity of marriage, we must abolish marriage, both at the governmental level and the secular cultural level. That way, no one will even know what marriage is, and will never even have heard that word, EXCEPT hardcore Christians and religious people. This means that no one will get married, except for hardcore tradcons who are dead serious about the “sanctity of marriage.” That’s the only way to restore conservative values to marriage.
I have the same attitude towards sex. If the only men and women who ever fuck are horny bastards like us, and everyone else just stays out of the sexual game, that will thin the herd and save us a lot of headaches. as our sexual game becomes the only game in town!
I’d say that’s a great sign!
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 03:20 pm, 4th April 2025See my response to Caleb. She just wants to keep the beta male on lockdown while she has limitless options, at least in potential.
If, and only if, the man is an alpha. But even then, she will try to betaize him and make him obsessed with her in order to boost her own ego. But a successful betaization process will kill her attraction for him in order to fulfill the contradictory side of her personality, thus provoking, or intensifying, her cheating on him. Then it’s a break up, and rinse and repeat.
This is largely true, unless she’s in our little secret society and has most of her friends within it. Then she wants to know everything so she and her friends can celebrate the lifestyle, even as she shares her friends with you, or they will just bug her and say, “How come you haven’t let me fuck your boyfriend yet? I let you fuck mine. What the hell?” But yes, truly red pilled all the way women are a minority.
Traditional masculine men who want only traditional feminine women, yes. But they still want to discreetly fuck other women themselves. What’s preventing them from fully joining our society are their slut shaming tendencies. They just can’t handle their little angel sleeping with other men, even as she cheats on him way more often than even he is cheating on her. I’ve seen this reality many times.
Like I said, most people need to live in denial and aren’t strong enough to face their true selves. But they still don’t want monogamy for themselves, but only for their partners, which usually leads to a “don’t ask, don’t tell” situation, which I’m fine with for the weaker crowd.
But there are two types of discretion: Discretion from the rest of the world vs. discretion from each other. Yes, discretion from the rest of the world is a must. But discretion from each other has levels – 1. Sharing everything (specific knowledge), 2. Sharing only that you’re doing it, but no details (general knowledge), 3. don’t ask, don’t tell (peripheral knowledge), and 4. discreet cheating (zero knowledge). Most men (and women) are somewhere on that spectrum. But even if most go the cheating route in order to save both their partner’s ego and their own, I’m fine with that.
I think if you look closer and pierce the surface level veil, you’d be shocked what kinds of lives most people live behind closed doors. Just because they’re smart enough not to talk to you about it doesn’t mean that they aren’t secretly more open minded than you think, or at least can be persuaded to be with less effort than you assume.
Yes, most people who are openly poly are intellectuals and wired differently than most. But other people whom you designate as “less mature” just have their own non-literal way of going about it. These people need discretion even from themselves. They need a fantasy to save face even in front of their own selves, while deep down, they look the other way, and even indulge in some extracurricular activities themselves. But the more intellectual you are, the more you strip away those layers of delusion and become more literal in your dealings with people. But for most people, literal honesty kills the fun, kills the magic, and kills the “romanticism” for lack of a better word.
But don’t assume that people aren’t leading our lifestyle just because they are leading it non-literally, even as they deceive themselves in a round about way.
For most, it will have to be implied and not literally stated, unless they have literal minded friends and are within a literal poly circle. But discretion and secrecy have their charm too for the vast majority of less than intellectual people.
Freaking out is part of the game when your partner was careless enough to get caught. I’ve seen women cheat on their boyfriends and husbands, but when they found out their boyfriends and husbands are doing the same, their freak out was tremendous. That’s the price one must pay for being careless and getting caught, thus offending egos in the non-literal and non-intellectual majority world. See also, “don’t ask, don’t tell” relationships. Women who have cheated on their husbands with me have told me – “If he’s cheating on me, he better make damn sure I never find out or I will cut his dick off.” Egos must be protected. That is the implicit contract among non-intellectuals and non-literalists.
Oh, it’s possible. You just have to drop hints that you’re in the game, without literally admitting it. You’d be surprised how honest (if not literally honest) a woman can get when she realizes she’s in the presence of a fellow secret society member.
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Correct!
Yup! The minority is growing, and even the majority are starting to come around, at least at a subconscious level, I would say. It’s a great time to be alive!
Carlos 2.0
Posted at 10:37 pm, 4th April 2025I’m a physician and I frequently deal with elderly couples who have “beaten the odds” and made monogamy work. But guess what, so many of them are clearly miserable and despise their spouses of decades. They treat each other like garbage, openly, in front of me. Their love language is bickering, seemingly. So the percentage of people who are successful AND HAPPY with monogamy must be even lower.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 02:52 am, 5th April 2025No, they haven’t. As you’re about to demonstrate. It infuriates me when people’s definition of “work” means not divorcing or breaking up. Staying in a miserable marriage filled with cheating, fighting, and massive contempt for one another while praying that the other one dies so you can collect the life insurance isn’t evidence of monogamy “working.” It’s precisely evidence of the opposite. Staying together well into your 90s doesn’t count as anything working. I just means you’re a prisoner.
Exactly! The only reason old people haven’t gotten divorced a lot sooner is because they came from a different time. The wife wasn’t allowed to work, so divorce would have meant homelessness or starvation without the man’s monthly alimony payments and her stealing half his property. But she couldn’t do that either because divorce would have been a scandal and she would have been kicked out of her church, all of her family and friends would have disowned her, and so forth. Like I said, completely different time.
Also, many working class people can’t afford to divorce. Divorce is expensive, and for many, the money is just not there. That’s why certain poor people just kill their spouses and themselves. Or, in the case of old people, they stayed together for the sake of social acceptability in an obsolete culture. The woman couldn’t financially survive on her own and the man couldn’t either because, back then, grocery stores didn’t sell food, but only ingredients, and you can’t be expected to do any elaborate cooking when you just came back home from a hard day’s work. Also, there were no vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, or modern appliances. Clothes had to be washed by hand and ironed etc… Men and women needed each other, unlike today. So they tolerated each other despite mutual hate!
You must be both feminine and homo-romantic in order to be successful and happy with monogamy. That is, you must be a psychologically feminine person who is sexually attracted only to equally psychologically feminine people of the opposite sex. A feminine man and a feminine woman will be happy together. They both have low sex drives, are fine with having sex very rarely, and can’t imagine doing it with more than one person in one lifetime. Such wannabe penguins will make monogamy work, but feminine men are rare, and feminine women who, in addition to their femininity, are also homo-romantic are even rarer. Most feminine women want masculine men (which makes them hetero-romantic), and most feminine men are hetero-romantic as well (they want masculine women).
So successful monogamy is practically a complete fiction.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:40 am, 5th April 20251. Divorce is rampant in Dubai just like it is all over the civilized world, including with the Muslims here. As usual, you know nothing about Dubai but pretend that you do.
2. Yes, more people in the USA, especially people under the age of 30, are saying marriage is dumb. I didn’t deny that. Just because some people are saying that doesn’t mean that A) they’ll never try it as they get older and B) that the vast majority of Westerners will ever get to the point where they will NEVER marry. The SP is too strong.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:44 am, 5th April 2025You mean they’ve made marriage work. You have no idea if they’ve made monogamy work because at some point 20 years ago one of them (or both of them) may have wandered. 71% odds.
Correct, I’ve written many articles about this.
If you stay married and “monogamous” but end up in a marriage where your spouse irritates the fuck out of you, once again, marriage has failed.
“Successful” traditional monogamous marriage means all three of following conditions are true:
1. You NEVER get divorced. (Good luck with that.)
2. Neither one of you has EVER been sexual with ANYONE outside the marriage during the ENTIRE marriage. (Good luck with that.)
3. You are still happy with each other even when you’re both very old and the marriage is decades old. (Good luck with that.)
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 02:40 pm, 5th April 2025Then I’m proud of them, their tendency to put diapers on their heads notwithstanding.
As usual, you know nothing about Dubai but pretend that you do.
Forgive me if the term “Muslim country” still means something to me. If a country is predominantly Muslim, I, like most Americans, make certain assumptions about its laws and culture based on the dictates of the Quran, the Hadiths, and the sayings of Mohammed (may pig vomit be upon him).
Maybe the United Arab Emirates should stop calling itself Muslim then, just like China should stop calling itself communist.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 06:17 am, 6th April 2025Less than 50% of Dubai’s residents are Muslim and 91% of people in Dubai aren’t from Dubai, therefore it is not “predominantly Muslim.” If it was, I wouldn’t live here. How stupid do you think I am?
Yet again, you state factually incorrect statements about Dubai thinking you know about Dubai when you clearly know nothing.
Next time you state anything factually incorrect about Dubai, your entire comment will be deleted.
If you repeatedly do this, you will be permanently banned with no warnings. Last warning.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 01:08 pm, 6th April 2025“I’m a physician and I frequently deal with elderly couples who have “beaten the odds” and made monogamy work. But guess what, so many of them are clearly miserable and despise their spouses of decades. They treat each other like garbage, openly, in front of me. Their love language is bickering, seemingly. So the percentage of people who are successful AND HAPPY with monogamy must be even lower.”
Lol. Is that a joke? That is not “made it work” but a complete failure of the relationship on every level. Made it work would be they are still deeply in love and having wild sex all the time, several times a week even after decades.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 06:18 pm, 6th April 2025Can you do me a favor? When you say “Dubai,” can you establish whether you’re referring to the city or the entire UAE country? Because I was referring to the entire country when I said “Muslim country,” not just the one city. You seem to say “Dubai” to refer to the whole nation.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the UAE is a Muslim country, is it not? If Dubai is as you say, then fine, but I’m still wondering how markedly separated the city is from the UAE in terms of laws and culture. Not saying anything false, just asking you to clarify your words.
Well, I’m glad to hear that.
I was referring to the country as a whole, not just that city, when I said “Muslim country.” If I’m 100% wrong about the whole country, let me know.
KL70
Posted at 12:25 am, 7th April 2025As I remember reading it in his previous blog, can Caleb elaborate on why his mother left Caleb’s dad after decades of marriage. Is it that she had got bored and did Caleb see it coming, have they found companionship with other people and how did they meet them. Like who looks after Caleb’s elderly dad?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 04:23 am, 7th April 2025Correct. After many long years of getting older and losing testosterone, my dad morphed from mild Alpha Male 1.0 to a total beta who sat on the couch all day who didn’t want to do anything. My mom lost all attraction for him and left him for her high school sweetheart after putting up with it for 8 years.
My dad is at fault for letting himself go. My mom is at fault for the way she left.
Long-term monogamy doesn’t work.
My mom very quickly married her high school sweetheart who was an old unhealthy man in his 70s. Within 2 years after they got married he died. She is now alone, sad, and still mourns his death even though it was a few years ago.
My dad very quickly married some random Asian woman he met on a dating site for old people and she divorced him within 2 years.
Long-term monogamy doesn’t work.
Then he pivoted to a new old Asian woman who quickly had a stroke. He now spends most of his time caring for her even though he’s in his 80s.
And remember, for 48 years everyone celebrated my parents as the lucky few who made long-term marriage/monogamy work.
Long-term monogamy doesn’t work.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 04:25 am, 7th April 2025No.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 04:41 am, 7th April 2025“I was referring to the country as a whole”
The country is UAE, the city is Dubai. You said Dubai. Now you say you were referring to the country as a whole, this is hilarious.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 05:52 am, 7th April 2025I said that because I was under the assumption that Dubai is NOT markedly separated from the country in terms of its laws and culture. So I considered the distinction to be trivial. Then when Caleb called me out, I tried defending myself by saying that the UAE is a Muslim country, which I thought justified my earlier statement about Dubai, which is within a Muslim country.
But then Caleb said that 91% of people in Dubai aren’t from Dubai, and that less than 50% are Muslim. By this, I assumed he meant the city, so I wanted clarification as to whether or not the city is markedly separated from the UAE in terms of laws and culture, thus making it unwise for me to use Dubai and the UAE interchangeably.
Yes, when I said “Muslim country,” and “predominantly Muslim,” I meant the UAE as a whole, and since Dubai is part of the country, I thought that that was a distinction without a difference. Clearly, I was wrong, which is why I wanted clarification on the cultural distinctions between the two.
I wanted to know if anything I said was false in other parts of the country, or am I only full of shit about Dubai the city, but whatever..
AlphaOmega
Posted at 06:19 am, 7th April 2025“I said that because I was under the assumption that Dubai is NOT markedly separated from the country in terms of its laws and culture. So I considered the distinction to be trivial. ”
It is not like that. A quick online search would reveal that UAE is a collection of to a large extent independent city states with their own laws. From that you could have known to assume it can be totally different in another city. Something that most people know already, and you could have known this too after few minutes of googling instead of posting your opinions here. You are commenting about how Dubai was 15-20 years ago with doing zero investigation whether it is the case still. This is why people get annoyed with you.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 06:38 am, 7th April 2025I didn’t feel the need to google, because Caleb lives there, so he’s a more reliable source. So I assumed he’d just correct me if I said something wrong, WHICH HE DID!
No, most Americans don’t know that. In fact, I’d speculate that less than 2% of Americans know that, or give a shit about any of this foreign crap. Most Americans are NOT internationalists!
Again, since Caleb lives there, I figured he’d tell me if I’m incorrect (which he did), instead of me having to google. If no one here lived in Dubai, and therefore, no one could correct me, then yes, I might google it first.
People? Who the fuck is people? Caleb is a singular person, not people. But if you’re annoyed also, thus justifying your use of the plural, I don’t give a shit!
AlphaOmega
Posted at 12:05 pm, 7th April 2025“No, most Americans don’t know that.”
I didn’t say anything about Americans.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 07:55 pm, 7th April 2025You’re talking to an American nationalist with a virtually exclusive American orientation. If by “most people,” you meant to say “Most foreigners already know what you Americans don’t,” then you’re just being smug. In which case, I’ll just respond by saying that, with the exception of Caleb who is now a foreigner (and that’s only because he owns this blog), I don’t give a rat’s fuck about the knowledge base of foreigners or the quality of non-American educational systems in contrast to my own.
Saying that “most foreign people” know what us Americans don’t was a completely unnecessary and useless statement on your part, especially since, with the exception of Caleb, I only really care about the knowledge base of my own fellow Americans. But continue basking in your alleged foreign superiority if it makes you feel good.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 08:58 am, 8th April 2025“You’re talking to an American nationalist with a virtually exclusive American orientation.”
Completely irrelevant as far as the argument I made goes. The rest of your “wall of text” comments is just you arguing for the sake of arguing.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 02:56 pm, 8th April 2025It’s very relevant. Let me explain why:
When I’m talking to people day to day, I’m talking to my fellow Americans 99.9% of the time. So when someone makes a comment like, “Most people know this thing that you don’t, I naturally assume that by “most people” you mean Americans. Who else would you be talking about? The answer is – 99.9% of the time, no one else. So I correctly pointed out that you’re wrong.
But you said that you didn’t mean Americans when you said “most people.” That means I now have to adjust my brain in a way that I’m unaccustomed. So by saying that most foreigners already know what Americans don’t, you’re essentially being smug, thus justifying the rest of my response.
No, the rest of my “wall of text” has a purpose that I just explained. If you can’t discern the logic, that’s your problem.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 03:56 pm, 8th April 2025“It’s very relevant. Let me explain why:”
That is only relevant if most of the readers are Americans as you suggest. I think not, but I will let Caleb correct me if wrong. Otherwise completely irrelevant what you do and totally disconnected from this blog or any discussions here.
“No, the rest of my “wall of text” has a purpose that I just explained. ”
Only for you and your own satisfaction. Most readers will not read most of what you write, but I am sure you realize that.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:43 pm, 8th April 2025I suspect the majority are Americans. Caleb used to live here and this used to be essentially an all American blog when he first started out years ago. Sure, it has become more globalist since then, especially now that Caleb no longer lives in the USA, but I still have a predominantly American mindset when I’m here, as I suspect most Americans also have when they post here. This blog has American roots. You’ll just have to live with that, no matter how internationalist it becomes or has become.
I’m simply responding to you. It’s relevant in that context. If you insist on calling me out, I will continue responding in that vein. If you think this is all irrelevant, then stop making it relevant by responding.
My first response to Caleb that started all this was relevant to the topic we were talking about (at least I thought so). He then responded and I responded back. I thought this topic would die now, but you are keeping it on life support while mocking its relevance. I already explained how it was relevant in context. Divorce and marriage statistics do vary by country and culture.
This has nothing to do with my “satisfaction” and everything to do with where YOU are leading the discussion while hypocritically mocking its relevance.
Most of what I write? So now you’ve breached the borders of this discussion and are talking about my writings as a whole. I try to stay on topic as I understand the topic of the blog post. This one did get more off topic than I wanted, but that was because you insist on constantly reinvigorating it, thus compelling me to keep explaining something that is admittedly getting more and more off topic at this point.
Also, you have no authority or psychic powers to speak for other people, or what they do or don’t read. Consigning me to irrelevance will not alter my behavior here or embarrass me into silence in any way. You are clearly reading my “irrelevant ramblings,” and responding to them, so what does that say about your relevance here?
AlphaOmega
Posted at 05:59 pm, 8th April 2025” Most readers will not read most of what you write, but I am sure you realize that. ”
I mean your replies are too long. Sometimes less is more.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 11:01 pm, 9th April 2025Well, if people have the attention span of a goldfish (as Caleb is fond of saying), that’s their problem. We all have our own styles, and mine is fond of detail. It’s a habit I learned from my former occupation.