The 10 Stupid Reasons People Use To Get Married
I’ve gotten a slew of emails lately from many of you guys considering marriage, both OLTR Marriage and traditional monogamous marriage. I’ve also spoken with literally hundreds of men and women over the years who became engaged or who decided they wanted to marry someone.
The problem is the reasons people use to justify getting married. In a society with 70%+ divorce rates, if I ask you, “Why are you getting married?” you need to have a very specific, clear, valid, objective, rational reason. The standard bullshit Disney reasons people used back in the 1950s, when the divorce rate was only 8% instead of 70%, aren’t going to cut it today.
To help you snap out of your daze, here are the WRONG reasons why you would marry someone. They are listed in no particular order.
1. You don’t marry someone because you love them.
I get this one from women all the time. “Why are you getting married?” “Because we’re really in love!”
Buzz! Wrong. Being in love is not a valid reason to get married. Being in love is a reason to date someone, be serious with someone, and perhaps live with someone. Maybe. Being in love is not a reason to marry someone. Much or all of that “love” you feel is actually NRE and this shit will fade fast once you two get married. Moreover, you can be totally in love with someone and not be married. I know that’s a shock.
2. You don’t marry someone because they’re better than everyone else you’ve dated in the past.
This is the bullshit reason men often use. They drone on and on about how she’s Not Like The Rest™. I don’t give a fuck. That’s not a reason to marry someone. If the only reason you’re marrying a woman is because she’s the best you got so far, A) you’re not providing enough reasons to get married and B) you probably haven’t dated enough people yet.
3. You don’t marry someone because the sex is amazing.
Look dude, I get it. I have had several MLTRs and FBs in the past who were so amazing in bed that I could have sworn my mind had left my body during sex several times. That’s great. But few or none of those women would have been good people to marry.
If someone is good in bed, that’s great! Keep having sex with them under an FB or MLTR relationship. But for fuck’s sake, don’t marry them. You should never, never marry someone just for sexual reasons, and if you do, you’re a fuckin’ idiot.
4. You don’t marry someone just because they’re the first person you’ve had sex with.
Some more right-wing or traditional people do this. Because of wildly outdated Societal Programming, they think they “need” to marry the person who deflowered them.
I shouldn’t have to explain why this is a terrible idea. You need to have sex with many more people first, in order to know what you like and what you don’t like. And just like with #3 above, you never marry someone just for sexual reasons. That’s insane.
5. You don’t marry a woman just because you were stupid and got her pregnant.
In many ways, this is an extension of the rule you don’t marry someone just for sexual reasons.
Shotgun marriages don’t work. You’ll just end up divorced. In those kinds of situations, adding legal marriage to the mix just makes everything worse. Pay the stupid child support, be the best dad you can to the child, and move on. You don’t need some kind of marriage, relationship, or even sexual relationship with the mother. Her sex life / love life is her problem.
I have personally seen numerous divorces with couples who got married because of a baby-oops. Just because there’s a baby involved doesn’t mean the marriage will work. One has nothing to do with the other.
6. You don’t get married because you’re lonely.
In my primary book, I talk about one of the Six Societal Values called Not Being Alone. If you’re lonely, you need to first learn how to be alone and enjoy it before you get married. Getting married because you’re lonely is putting the cart before the horse. It actually works the other way around. If you don’t have the ability to be alone and happy, you will never be able to make a marriage work. Your neediness and scarcity mentality will damage your marriage and all kinds of problems will manifest.
True fact from my life: the time I felt the loneliest in my past was when I was married, and under a TMM model. I have never felt lonely when not married. More details about that here.
7. You don’t get married because you want kids.
I made this mistake. If you want kids, that’s fine. Read this article and follow the steps it outlines. But before that, you need to understand two things:
1. Having children does not require marriage.
2. The desire to have children does not mean you have the skills to maintain a marriage.
Having babies and maintaining a 25+ year marriage with a woman are two completely different skill sets with very different personal and emotional requirements. Just because you have some biological need to Xerox yourself doesn’t mean you have the skills to have a successful marriage, nor does it even mean you need to get married, nor does it mean marriage will make you happy.
You might love being a dad, but being married to a woman for years on end might make you fucking miserable. Again, these are two different things!
8. You don’t get married because your parents or grandparents are giving you a hard time about you getting married or having kids.
FUCK THEM! Are they going to pay all of your bills for you for the rest of your life? Are they going to make all of your dreams come true? Are they going to watch all of your kids whenever you want for free they’re 18? Are they going to pay for all the exorbitant costs involved in raising your kids?
No? Then TELL MOM AND GRANDMA TO FUCK OFF. YOU ARE NOT AN ALPHA MALE UNTIL YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO DO THIS.
As I’ve said many times, do you think my mom approves of my lifestyle? Of course not!
I love my mom, but do you think I give a rat fuck what she thinks about my personal life?
Nope. That’s her problem. I’m too busy being happy.
9. You don’t marry someone because you’re “tired of dating.”
Oh god, I get this excuse so often. It’s so depressing to hear people say this.
If you’re tired of dating, then fine, stop dating. Lock in or two FBs or sugar babies, or get an OLTR if you really want one. But for fuck’s sake “stop dating,” does not mean “get married.” You can stop dating whenever the hell you want without getting married you fuckin’ moron.
10. You don’t marry someone because you “get along” with someone.
If you “get along” with someone, great, keep her at the OLTR level if you really like her. But “getting along” does not mean you take the financial, logistical, and legal plunge of getting married.
If I get enough requests, in a future article I will list the valid reasons why it might be okay to marry someone. (And that would be OLTR Marriage of course, since in the Western world there is never a reason for TMM.)
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
Bd,make that post about valid reasons to get married under an Oltr model:)).And the guys who promote TMM are already a lost cause,so fuck them.
Other than BD, I’d be interested to hear from guys who are currently either in a successful open marriage, or in a successful open relationship (whether it’s a defacto one where yous currently together, or yous don’t live together isn’t important) and explain how you make it work.
It’s also not important if you’re the only person who’s fucking other people, or if your female partner also fucks other guys, or just fucks another guy, but yous both always sensibly practice safe sex.
Then I don’t see any reason whatsoever to marry, even OLTR marriage.
Yes please write about the valid reason for marriage. Thanks, -Sean
11. Don’t follow her rules
I know, it is well explained multiple times in frame holding articles, yet, I managed to date 13 years younger cutie, who tried to impose her relationship rules on me, and left me, when realized she can’t, she coldly left me 😀 😀
Some of these reasons are indeed stupid, but I think children are a good reason to get married. In fact, I think kids are the only good reason to get traditionally married.
Yes, please provide a list of valid reasons for marriage! Besides the obvious ‘she just won the mega millions’. LOL
Here’s one… What about getting married for tax-reduction purposes?
What is Blackdragon’s specific, clear, valid, objective, rational reason for getting married?
Would also be interested to hear in the reasons to get married. Only one I can possibly think of so far is a legal marriage in the right jurisdiction to make getting visas together easier for perpetual travellers, but I’m not even sure it makes it that much easier when you can prove you’re in a genuine relationship anyway.
On 1 you say not to marry someone because you love them,that you can be with someone you love without marrying them.
But lets say you have an Oltr you have been togheter for 5 years,that you love.You could provide her a wedding ,but not be legally married(finances separated).This way the relationship will last longer.If after this long period of time(5 years) you dont give her a wedding:)),she will lsnfte you,because you dont provide some disney.What do you risk if you marry an Oltr that you love,if she cant touch your money ?
What’s funny is I hear almost all these reasons above all the time as reasons I should consider marriage. Shows you how conditioned most people are when it comes to these things. I can forgive the older generations since they came up in a very different era but people my age or younger really boggle the mind. They should know better but the SP is very strong.
Bd question,you say that men under 30 should not think about marriage,but im an Toth dude,and enjoy short fb and ons,i dont enjoy multiple mltrs.Only 1 Mltr/Oltr+ 1 regular Fb and many Ons.
That mltr if i love her,why not to make her an oltr,and treat her like a high end mltr.
I mean im not comfortable with the concept that a high end mltr is allowed to have fellings for other guy.Could i put a rule on high end mltr that says that the rest of the people we met are only fbs,not someone we date?
For those of you asking for reasons to get married, that’s a complicated (but important) topic so I will cover that in an upcoming article.
For the rest of you,
Incorrect. Read objection #5 here.
Objection #47 here.
Maybe it will last longer. But yeah, that’s fine if you’ve thought through all the other ramifications.
That’s an issue of going out of your way to do something complicated just to make sure a woman doesn’t leave you. That’s getting into oneitis territory.
1. Increased drama.
2. Increased betaization.
3. More difficult sexual logistics with side-women.
Actually it’s men under age 35. Men under 30 shouldn’t have a girlfriend.
Then that goes double for you.
Read that question again and see if you can guess my answer.
That’s an OLTR, not an MLTR.
I can call a dog a duck, but it’s still a dog.
This article did list 10 reasons…and then in the last sentence it says “since in the Western world there is never a reason for TMM.”
This kinda makes the entire article pointless, because no reason would be good enough under this rule.
In my humble opinion some of the 10 listed no-reasons, are in fact a very good reason; if combined. In my world a marriage is resting on 3 pillars
Sex
Children
Trust
Good sex ALONE is only 1/3th of the deal and a FB would be able to cover this pillar perfectly well – exactly as BD said.
She got pregnant ALONE is only 1/3th of the deal. If there is a child but you dont have sex with the mother anymore AND you dont trust her (love is part of the trust pillar) this is a shitty relationship.
BUT if there is good sex AND the child, we already have 2 of the main pillars covered. This type of relatonship can work. Not very well (because 1 pillar is still missing) but work it can. As long as both pillars remain in good standing that is.
Several of the listed reasons (first sex partner, Love, best partner ever, tired of dating) would qualify as foundations for trust. Additional reasons not mentioned would be “good job” “lots of money” “honest person” “loves kids” “is willing to become SAHM” “can cook” etc etc. These all combined can form the pillar of trust.
Only when all 3 pillars are (and remain!) in good standing we are talking about a good traditional marriage.
Nowadays, this has become more and more the exception. Almost to the point where BDs 2% rule does apply. For a man in todays western world, I see strong arguments that BDs model with OLTR marriage (MLTR/FB) is the way to go. Even for a man who wants children, OLTR marriage can offer lots of advantages. For a woman however, the traditional m. marriage (TMM) is the better deal by far. If a woman has the stronger position (i.e. high SMV) pressing for TMM is a wise choice.
So ,if i have a high end mltr and i say we can have sex with other people but we cant date other people.And if i have only this rule and the safe sex rules.
What are the downsides,since i dont enjoy having multiple mltrs and have no desire to date other girls beside my only mltr?
11. Because that’s what people do.
I don’t see any justification what so ever. Zero. Unless you’re really old I guess. Like 70’s.. Nice to have someone to call 911 if you’re dying. Other than that I just don’t see it. I’m curious to see your reasons for marriage of any kind. I assuming your’s would be something like having the same mission or goals that you wouldn’t be able to accomplish as effectively without the other. Like moving out of country. AS long as everything else is in order like prenups and financial separation. Only a guess.
Most women crave marriage, love, romance, hallmark channel, and etc.. For them it is ultimate deal. They get everything on a daily basis and you get fucked.
That’s 2% Rule stuff. “What if she’s a millionaire BD and I don’t have any money? Then TMM would be a good idea, right???”
Remember what I always say about what it means if you’re using the 2% exception to the rule as your primary argument…
Read my comment above yours.
Remember, when I say “marriage” I mean “settling down with one woman for the long-term.” Legal marriage is a different topic altogether.
I’m currently ending a 15 year marriage and would definitely like to hear your thoughts on valid reasons to marry.
I honestly can’t think of a single valid reason (defined as a benefit to me that can’t be obtained otherwise) to ever marry again.
But maybe that’s just my negative mindset talking.
Yup. You’re in category #8 here. It will be about 18-24 months before you can view this issue objectively again.
Hey BD,
I have a friend from College who just turned 30 about to marry a cougar chick that will be 40 in few yrs. I think upcoming Summer their doing their wedding or marriage contract celebration lol. It seems like she plans all the vacations they go on and everything so it seems like he is following her gameplan more so than creating one for her to follow lol. What advice would u have for him? Also BD out of all wedding invitations u have recieved from guy friends. What % of them have u attended? Was them being a Beta or Alpha type a factor in you going? Only weddings I have went too have been of olde female family members lol.
Terminate the relationship immediately and go date someone who will A) allow him to have sex with other women and B) doesn’t require TMM.
He won’t take any of my advice though. It’s far too late. You’ll have to wait until after he gets divorced in a few years.
Zero percent.
I don’t lecture them though; again, it’s too late. I just tell them I’m busy or out of town (which is always the truth).
No. The factor was that I hate weddings (they’re way too long) and I have better things to do.
The only weddings I plan on attending in the future are my kids’ weddings… if they have any. And yes, they are well aware of my opinions regarding this matter.
Lol but BD Even though he is marrying chick almost 8 yrs older. Both their Parents have been in TMM style marriages for most part past 25+yrs. Dont u think thats going to help them be successful since they saw their Parents be and maybe learn from them and be inspired by them? Lol
“TELL MOM AND GRANDMA TO FUCK OFF.” Aww come on bro, but who’s going to pay my rent? JK. On a serious note, can you elaborate on your philosophy on love or if it exists in a different post?
The past success of marriage, whether in the ’50s or earlier, is a myth. As an example, one of the earliest studies of men watched men who graduated Harvard in 1940 over the course of their entire lives. 97% were first married in the ’40s and ’50s.
By the end of their lives:
21% were happily married to their first spouse.
10% divorced and happily remarried.
30% remained in “roommate” first marriages where they stayed married but had no sex, lived in different rooms, and had no common interests.
20% remained in marriages that involved some kind of violence. (rated as worse than a roommate marriage by the study)
16% were divorced, now single or in unhappy marriages (unhappy is worse than roommate and violent marriage by the study’s definition.)
3% never married
(Harvard Grant Study – read Triumphs of Experience by George Valiant – its text is strongly pro-marriage despite the statistics and evidence it presents to the opposite.)
That means that of these men who married in 1940’s and 1950’s, only 31% self reported as being happily married at the end of their lives. Only 10% of the couples reported ever having a 10 year period of happy marriage, so even of those “happy” 31% most had spent most of their married lives unhappy. To me that’s a 90%+ failure rate for marriage.
The increase in divorce rates now is more a reflection of “legal divorces” rather than practical divorces. Throughout history couples split up but just didn’t get a legal divorce. Instead one or the other spouse went on a long trip to find America, hunt for gold or some such, died, got a job somewhere else, but stayed married on paper. Now the biggest change is that we get legal divorces – mostly only the paperwork has changed.
Many scientific studies show a happiness curve of marriage. It goes way up in the 2 – 3 years around the wedding then trends ever down. In contrast, the happiness curve of divorce spikes down in the first 2 -3 years then trends ever up. So, to steal the concept from Office Space, every day of marriage is the worst day of your life. Every day after getting over divorce is the best day of your life. Having kids turns people to self deception – they say and believe they are happier with kids but every objective / not self reported measure of happiness goes down.
There is lots of science behind the misery of marriage, it’s not just BD spouting, and it’s nothing modern.
Most people know the above from their observations of married people, but most people also think they will be a part of the tiny fraction who claim to be happy. The self delusion will continue.
Interesting article on your philosophy regarding the new age of marriage in the 21st century.
why
@BlackDragon Off topic Question/ or possible future topic suggestion. In economic harder time like the ‘08 recession or the future bear market Peter Schiff warns about, does online dating get easier and so do lays? Do you have past spreadsheets to notice a trend when you started you’re Alpha 2.0 journey back than.
Here’s an NYT article discussing it, but I’m more interested from your non-monogamy perspective vs typical beta provider
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/fashion/12dating.html
I’m currently in an open relationship. What do you want to know?
That’s too generic. Ask a specific question.
Then what is important to you? Where would you like to begin?
Jack outside the box
Could you comment on Alpha widows?Do you think they exist?whats your opinion on this articles:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/five-minutes-of-alpha/amp/
https://therationalmale.com/2018/10/30/widows-warbrides/
Whats your definition of an alpha widow?(if they exist)
I tried to work out what this Alpha widow thing means. It’s a totally pathetic concept. It’s even worse than being jealous because a woman you’re having sex with is also having sex somewhere else. All it really means is that some guy is jealous of the fact that a woman used to have sex with someone else and that he’s worried that she enjoyed it more (back then) than she does with him (now).
I think it’s based on some kind of sick fantasy about wanting to find a virgin who never ever has sex with any guy but you.
It’s a totally useless concept. Bin it.
@sykbstd
Great stuff. So many of these stats thrown around these days are very biased like including very young newlyweds in the “happiness” or “tons of sex” studies-this skews the numbers (which I know is what they want to keep pushing the TMM idea). These studies which follow people over the course of their lives are fare more valuable and accurate. Most folks I know that have been married past the 3-5 year mark are just “meh” about it at best and have fully admitted to wanted to fuck other people(or already have).
I think the romanticizing of marriage is a big part of what killed it too. Used to be just a business arrangement and well thought out. Then love became the end all be all which is a terrible reason as BD stated above, once the NRE wears off. Then people of course assume the marriage is shit and broken since big shock, they don’t want to fuck their partner anymore, then divorce instead of just doing an OLTR type thing. I see glimmers of hope out there but societal programming is still really strong even in the younger generations, mainly because the older generation still fill their heads with the same nonsense that MAYBE worked ok many decades ago. The whole TMM system is crap for most people but no one wants to admit it…they instead just blame the other person for the failure and just proclaim they need to find the “right one”.
Boom. Legit. Uncle Caleb coming through again!
Most of my family is dead to me because most of them just wanted me to be a good little beta, getting a TMM and working for the man.
I’m g00d on that. I’d rather spend my 40s and 50s traveling the world and not pressuring chicks to be completely dedicated to me at all times or putting useless pressure on myself to make a chick happy. And starting a family is one of the stupidest things you can do in the west.
JOTB:
I’ll ask….one of the things that’s making my current Monk Mode way too long as that I can’t quite grasp the idea of getting used to fucking someone who is fucking someone else.
I have the attractive part down. I know for a fact I’ve passed up on fucking other guys girlfriends. In fact, in one case, I didn’t escalate when I had the openings, and the next time I met her I met her boyfriend, looked him up and down, and realized why I had an opening…..he was a skinny little fucker (she was a VYW).
Is this a good way to get used to non-monogamy, setting oneself up to be the other guy? That has got to be a different vibe, right? If a woman is stepping out on her man to fuck you, that means you’re giving her something she’s not otherwise getting, right? Easier psychologically than the idea of “your” woman fucking another guy?
My parents were monogamously married for 45+ years, yet 3 out of the 4 kids they had who got married are now divorced, and the one who is still married is very unhappy in her marriage.
Did it help them?
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2011/07/07/what-about-love/
Correct. The divorce rate was much lower in the 50s, but the success rate of marriage has always been terrible since it’s against basic human biology.
It’s funny because the amount of couples that fight in weddings is outrageous (not talking exclusively about newly weds)! It’s like all their dirty laundry comes to light when they see someone else tying the knot in a big cerimony, LOL.
Also family members and close friends tend to ride the drama wave and create conflict out of nowhere! Totally insane!
Anyway, it is a veeeery long ceremony who takes forever to get to the good part, which IMO is the food and sarging the bridesmaids.
Weddings these days = drama+boredom.
Not cool.
JudoJohn
I’ll have a stab at this.
Assume that any and every woman you are fucking is fucking someone else because in my experience most if not all of them are.
Just been reading of another couple of guys going through the divorce grinder.
1. Hollywood icon Robert DeNiro, despite his fame and wealth is looking down the barrel of bankruptcy due to his elderly wife have entrepreneurial aspirations. This old bird has done nothing apart from renting her vagina out to a gullible wealthy guy and then cash out when the sprogs are bedded into the deal.
2. Mr Money Mustache, who has built a brand based on frugal living and happy marriage. Perhaps Mrs Money Mustache was getting a bit jaded and wanted to live it up a bit on his £400K per year blog income and stash of Vanguard Index Funds.
If neither of these two guys can make it work, should that not tell you everything you need to know about the marriage scam?
It’s not the 1950’s any more where young couples met at school at 14 and were married at 16. pair bonding and marrying until death do they part.
Today, women are for fucking, nothing more, nothing less.
Hope springs eternal, with a side of don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.
More harmful and shame buffer aimed at incels and men stuck in the anger phase post breakup, courtesy of Rollo.
I’m almost five years out, and I’m pretty sure that I am being objective!
I was happy when I was married, but in retrospect it wasn’t worth the work. I’m not interested in doing that again. It’s not for me, but I don’t mind being alone either.
Frankly, that makes it worse. They have so much societal programming coursing through their veins…and I’m not digging at them. I was that guy! There’s no reasoning with him.
Exactly. It worked poorly then and almost never now. Things went from bad to way worse.
Part jealousy and part raging neediness and part obsolete caveman wiring.
If you really wanna fix it, Caleb’s $9 book is a great start. Most guys don’t have that gear to “let go” of their possessiveness. Lots of betas, fewer Alpha 1.0 (this behavior reeks of 1.0), few 2.0s.
I think that it boils down to jealousy and scarcity mentality, most people don’t wanna let that shit go.
@Sailormack
I’m aware on DeNiro’s case, but what’s your source on Peter?
@C Lo
Haha.. You really get iritated when someone saying about Rollo’s terminology, aren’t you?
—
You’re in category #8 here. It will be about 18-24 months before you can view this issue objectively again.
Except, you’re trapped in anger phase… forever.
Cmon bro. I’m jaded but I’m not that jaded. But if you wanna fuck em, don’t marry them!
Marriages are just like business relationships; contract law. If you won’t enter into the deal with a man, don’t let your dick talk you into doing that same bad deal with a woman.
The moment you get that married pussy on lock, it dries up and she stops fucking you. Once she has you nailed down, now she controls you because what are you gonna do? Leave? You lose all the leverage. You promised, remember!
Everyone has heard it, but it’s like picking up a hot pan – some things a man just can’t learn any other way.
I do.
I guess what I’m trying to suss out is this: Is it a better strategy to focus on “taken” women for a while, or not? If she’s taken, you know she’s fucking someone else, but it seems to be a stronger position.
Am I wrong in thinking there’s a difference between a woman cheating with you and a woman initiating a new sexual relationship while fucking you, or is it all pretty much the same? Eventually?
It makes a difference for me. Taken women are easy to not get jealous over.. at least for me. You know what they are and can ever be… FBs, and nothing more..
Start by reading Calebs $9 “The Unchained Man “book, chapter 12:
”Overcoming Your Sexual Programming”
He’ll give you your money back if the book is a bust. You won’t want it back.
It doesn’t make a difference to me, but I loathe drama and taken women always cause me drama.
This is my fault because I just reek of that “settle down” vibe, which is a problem if she’s taken, because it always starts drama.
JOTB has success with this, but he’s a totally different personality than I am.
I don’t care if I’m involved with one woman or three, I don’t do drama or controlling behavior, and the couple of times that I got a married/involved one I got it in spades. There’s plenty of single women to choose from so I don’t work that angle.
Hmm… Someone bring Rollo topic, again.. unavoidably.
I could discussing long and deep about him, but I just remember this recent discussion on “The Red Pill” community coming from one of “The Elder” of The Manosphere.
>>> The Monetization of the Manosphere <<<
It just struck me that this blog and this “BD’s bussiness model”, especially at recent “Re-branding work” perfectly fit describe what his describing on that post.
#Ads #OnlineCourse #21Con #REDPillGroup #PainPoint #MyGoalisToHelpYouSoIWillGenerateC4$hToo #GiveMeThat$$$,Bitch!
Interesting…I wouldn’t imagine that a taken woman would try to control an on the side lover, but we are talking about women here! I could easily see that if you give off Provider vibes (I’ve been Monk Moding it partly to break that cycle), a taken woman would actually be looking to branch swing.
Am I reading that right? Are you a younger guy or more in your 40’s like I am? If I managed to seduce a taken VYW I doubt she’s give me the type of drama you’re talking about, but women my age….holy shit.
That’s why I thinking…..but additionally, there is the psychological power of “I could break this twerp’s beta bitch boyfriend in half, no wonder she’s coming over to get railed out right proper” which is kind of what I’m driving at…..and it might well be SP, admittedly.
It’s honestly strange that I haven’t, given how familiar I am with his work. That said, this has been a good conversation and I have come to the conclusion that not focusing on single women (de facto hitting on taken women) would be a good way to really get going with all of this.
I checked that post a couple times, wondering if anyone brought BD up. Not yet. Caleb’s far more mercenary than idealist, has never made any bones about it, and the money I’ve spent in coaching and on a book was money well spent.
From the post:
That doesn’t describe BD in my opinion. There’s plenty of solid free content on this blog.
And that’s my fault because I can’t help but shade the guy. And here’s why:
What utility does the concept “alpha widow” or “cock carousel” bring to the conversation, other than give incels or jaded divorced guys buffer on why they can’t get laid, or their sweet little princess dumped them for the pool boy? Sure, Rollo gets paid, but does anyone get better for having some bullshit excuse to blame that is – at best – specious?
Had I come here first and skipped all that hate inducing nonsense over there I’d have saved myself a couple of years post divorce being angry and just got at new women.
It’s clear I think the guy 1) hurts men, 2) is a charlatan and 3) is a lying egomaniac. I’m aware Caleb knows and is friends with the guy, but he and I disagree on this point.
I’m kind of with you on this, BD and GLL is all that’s really needed. I kind of wish I never found TRP, too much of a time sink, and fuck Rooshv right in the ear.
In retrospect, it was this 100%.
And I’m not sure how monk mode helps solve this. At best you are a horny and slightly desperate guy who still has that provider frame. Can I trouble you to elaborate
I’m late 40s.
It was exclusively with women over 40, who were acting like women over 40.
I am overly picky with the women that I’m interested in, as BD would say.
One of the things that BD evangelizes about is how important mission is, and how important your life goals are. To me, my most important thought when it comes to whatever woman is involved in my life is 1) is she low drama and 2) does she fit into what my life is now and MAYBE does she fit into my life going forward.
I’m frankly not concerned about if she’s single or married or a couch potato or active or anything else other than what I wrote.
Married women messing around have a weird vibe IMO. Caleb and JOTB do well with them, but it’s just not my groove. I didn’t appreciate it when I was mono and someone screwed around on me, and I am just not interested in being that guy. If you want to, go for it!
Just don’t bullshit yourself on why. if you are doing it because it’s exciting (JOTB), fantastic, if you are doing it because you figure it’s gonna allow you distance so you don’t get attached or hurt, STOP.
You need to get your neediness in check, and might want to reconsider what the goal is here, especially if you are coming out of a LTR.
Getting laid is easy if you have your head on straight, are outcome independent, and keep your existing Societal Programming from turning into a oneitis pussy after you do get something worth keeping around.
Back ON TOPIC: in the 50s and 60s women feared getting dumped for a younger and hotter model. What’s wrong with the world is they don’t fear that anymore.
The same thing that flares ASD continues to fester into menopause where it finally ends. Nobody I knew got divorced in my 30s but OMG there are so many 20-25 year relationships blown out around me I cannot keep track these days. And almost every time it’s the women blowing out!
I never cease to be surprised when women act like women.
The only drama I get is pregnancy scares.. They claim they ain’t fucking their current, claim they’re pregnant, and then claim it’s mine since they ain’t fucking their current or anyone else but me.. unfortunately for three I’m fixed and on T.. the denial is strong with women though so I keep sperm test on hand now. Has happened a couple times the last year and both with taken women.. 1 married and 1 with a bf.. still fucking the married woman and she’s been nothing but great since then..
Happy to…..for 21 of my 25 adult years, I was John & (fill in the blank). My identity was very much tied up in who I was LTR‘d with. In the last couple years, I have more or less successfully carved out a much more individual identity. My fear was that without this time, I would have transferred behavior patterns on to the next relationship.
I also have been lifting hard. I’m in better shape than many men, esp. our age. I get IOI’s from young cuties. I hit a bit of a genetic jackpot here and am lucky enough to be really good looking. This is another reason I’ve held out, although that excuse ended about 5 months ago when a 21 y/o cutie opened me at my burrito joint. I met her again later….she admitted that the previous time we met I had “charmed” her….and I met her boyfriend, and the realization hit me: no wonder she was charmed, I mean yeah I’m friendly and quite intelligent, but I’m also rocking a v-taper these days. It’s a good mix.
This is all really good stuff, but again banging a VYW in her crazy years while she has her arm candy boyfriend, I think that’s perfectly fine even if it is partly to allow distance. I’ve had a much younger girlfriend in the past. We spent 2.5 years together knowing we’d break up when she left for grad school. It was a revelation…all the little proxy war bullshit was gone, and we had a great time right to the end.
I have got to push back here. I was just chatting today with a Facebook/martial arts friend, a female anesthesiologist about 50 going back to school because she’s sick of that system. She’s in decent shape and even came back from a fractured ankle to do more martial arts….unlike her obese husband. Anyway, I laid out my aging warlord theory of male attractiveness (as Octavius observed in the splendid HBO miniseries Rome: the graveyards are full of middling swordsmen). You want DHV? I’ve been killing fuckers for decades, how about that? (they don’t need to know I was a slob until 5 years ago) She asked the similar thing for women….I said “Hold on to youth with all your holding, that’s all you’ve got” and she simply said “Truth” they are fully aware, more than ever I’d say.
YOU GO, GIRL! SMH
LMFAO that’s awesome. I shoot blanks naturally, and after dropping it on the money dozens of times in my 20’s with a woman who now has 4 kids, I have no fear (which hurts condom discipline)
I bet!
Maybe one useful thing to remind guys when a woman pressures them to go TMM is that women like getting married much more than actually being married:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/oct/13/a-strong-libido-and-bored-by-monogamy-the-truth-about-women-and-sex
BD,
In your posts regarding marriage you always seem to present a man’s options as either a traditional monogamous marriage or OLTR marriage.
You neglect to mention the option of a monogamous live in relationship with something like a co habitation agreement and separation of finances. This option is becoming an increasingly popular choice.
^ That option still avoids all the legal headaches of a traditional marriage for those who still want a monogamous arrangement.
Not always. Read this:
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2015/06/11/the-only-9-options-for-men-as-they-age/
and this:
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2017/03/20/9-different-marriage-legal-structures/
I describe that option in both of the above links, as well as here:
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2014/08/10/serial-monogamy-marriage/
and here:
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2017/03/06/advocating-serial-monogamy-men/
Incorrect. The vast, vast majority of people who are monogamous and who move in together sign absolutely no paperwork like this. It doesn’t even occur to them due to their own NRE, oneitis, and Disney (yes, even if they don’t want a legal marriage).
If people actually did that, yes, but they don’t.
It also doesn’t address any of the inherent problems with monogamy (rules, drama, an eventual bad breakup, etc).
I want to get married and but not monogomous (because Someones gotta fuck these hoes to sleep) because I live a very fast paced and busy life and I want pretty much a slave that I love who fucks me to maintain the house cook me food run my errands and do everything else I require as I’m busy pursuing my purpose lol. No I don’t want to hire a maid yes I have money it’s just a personal preference. I’m also from the east end of the earth our relationships are usually for ever haha is that good enough BD ?
Of course they exist. These are k-selected women who pine for an alpha whom they were in love with and who rejected them in the past. From then on, every man she sleeps with must either be his equal or superior (in terms of alpha status) in order for her to be attracted to him. If not, then he is just a beta provider whom she simply uses for material resources while she waits for her alpha to come back, or for a new alpha who approximates (or exceeds) her old one to sweep her off her feet.
I believe in the concept, but it has zero practical utility. If you’re a beta, you’re fucked anyway. And if you’re an alpha, the alpha widow will reject you if her past alpha was superior, or she’ll fuck you if you are his equal or better.
My point is, it’s out of your control. So why talk about it? There’s only one thing you can do to mitigate the negative consequences that alpha widowhood may have on your sex life (other than making yourself alpha, which you should be doing anyway): Go for r-selected females!
R-selected females are more masculine (personality-wise) and love sex too much to ever become an “alpha widow” in the sense of actually rejecting other alpha men just because they don’t measure up to some previous guy who’s long gone.
Notice, I said alpha men. Betas always get rejected regardless, unless they can provide economic utility, but r-selected women tend to want to make their own money. So, ironically, the more r-selected and sexually liberated a woman is, the less of a chance a beta has with her. The more k-selected and prudish she is, the more likely the beta will fuck her (in exchange for money and resources while she cheats on him with an alpha, of course). Like I said, betas are fucked either way!
Alpha widowhood is linked to the monogamy instinct, which r-selected women have way less of. So the problem for me solves itself!
I fuck only two types of women – (1) r-selected, and therefore, massively sexually liberated women who are into poly and (2) more k-selected types who are cheating on their boyfriends or husbands with me.
Now, are the second types cheating on their partners with me because I am equal to, or superior, to the alpha they are pining for? Are these cheaters alpha widows themselves? Strangely, I never bothered to ask.
But I do know which ones are k-selected and which ones are r-selected. The k-selected cheaters are cheating on a beta partner. The r-selected cheaters are cheating on an alpha partner (or have an open/poly arrangement with him), because sexually liberated r-selected women don’t fuck betas at all, unlike k-types who fuck them for money.
That’s all I need to know.
5. Reason
usually its the alpha male that a female wants to lock down by claiming its ‘accidental’ pregnancy. If she didn’t manage to lock him down, either she’s going to be single mom or cuck another beta male to look like he’s the official dad.
For your future article can you explain why anyone would want a live in OLTR instead of just a regular OLTLR ?
I assumed the live in OLTR was just for guys wanting to raise children but you’ve moved in with PF with no intention of having kids with her.
Yep I’m very interested in non-live-in OLTRs. I wonder if they’re more unstable because the woman may grow frustrated that she supposedly your main girl and emotionally exclusive but doesn’t spend the night with you very regularly, etc.
What I’m interested in on the ten year horizon is a high end MLTR where I can have other mltrs and FBs, but later on I could have a non-live-in OLTR. Perhaps it works best when you live in the same city/neighborhood but not literally a couple minutes from each other.
Sure. You guys clearly have a lot of questions about that.
I’ll give you two hints: age and place in life.
Maybe I missed it in the comments but #11 I’ve heard is for tax and/or insurance reasons. That one makes me laugh. I’d much rather take the time to reduce my taxes as much as possible and I can buy my own insurance thank you.
I have never had the desire to marry or have kids. Since I have been a little kid I told my parents I don’t want to get married and of course they would tell me to wait til I got older but it has never changed. I really don’t feel like having a family and marrying. I wonder whether something is wrong with me or whether it’s how it’s supposed to be without society norms forcing you to marry.
Caleb writes in one of his books about “the prison”, a virtual place that you don’t want to be but for one societal programming based reason or another, people put themselves in.
Congrats on staving off that pressure and not locking yourself up. It’s your life, do whatever you want with it, anyone who doesn’t line it is free to kiss your ass or not be inside it.
BD, on the off chance that you don’t know, there seems to be an internal server error preventing me from posting comments longer than one paragraph. I’ve been trying to answer JudoJohn’s question but I keep getting the “internal server error” message when I try to post it. Note: I’m using firefox now.
For men nowadays, there is literally NO ‘good’ reason for getting married.
P.S.
Getting married “for tax-reduction purposes” is just like buying a 747 for the ‘free’ peanuts.
JudoJohn:
Let me make something perfectly clear:
If you start fucking married/taken women of the first type – those who are experiencing problems in their relationships – you are going to be disgusted by the thought of ever having a serious relationship with anyone ever again. You will double down on your “monk mode” and will castrate yourself because the pain will become too unbearable for you.
After hearing constant comments from these wives, like, “my husband is such a loser, he can never make me cum,” you’ll never want a girlfriend again.
But, all of your hangups will be resolved if you fuck cheaters of the second type. These women will show you how much they love their husbands. Even during sex, they’ll talk about how fantastic their husbands are and lament that he isn’t evolved enough to understand this little thing on the side that she has to do to meet her own needs. Only then you will see that the woman you love fucking another dude is no big deal and that she still loves you.
Now, at first, you won’t know how to tell the difference between the two women if they’re cheating. That’s why I suggest you fuck women who are self-evidently in open/poly marriages and relationships. Some of these women even advertise on dating sites that they’re in an open marriage and looking for a secondary or tertiary. That will go a long way to help you break this programming.
Oh, and, if you can, try getting a girlfriend who’s into threesomes and suggest one with you and another dude. When I first did that with my girl, I watched her get pounded by the other guy while she turned her head towards me and said, “I love you.” My heart melted.
In short, you must get over your insecurities. And fucking women who are cheating because the boyfriend or husband is a loser will increase your insecurities, not decrease them. If you want to decrease them, find women who love their men, but fuck you anyway. Your best bet is fucking women who are in open arrangements and tell you about it.
JOTB:
Damn. Thanks, that’s not quite what I was expecting.
I did have a threesome once with such a woman. It happened so fast, big party, turned around and she was making out with my wife, and we took her home. The memory of sliding out of my wife’s pussy and into her mouth provides spank material to this day, 10 years later. It was exquisite.
A couple weeks later, I met up with her and her husband. She was very down for the two man saw. I wanted to fuck her badly, but she would only do it with her husbands OK, which he readily gave as we hit it off well. I totally chickened out, it was a world I hadn’t even dreamed of.
I’ve had couples approach me on OKC. It’s hard for me to trust such a thing. I mean, I get intellectually why they might want their girlfriend/wife railed out by a slab of meat who long ago banished soy from his diet….I’m guessing you might think it a good idea to take exactly that angle on a new OKC profile.
Edit: It’s not that I want to fuck women having problems with their relationships, it’s that I want to not give a shit, and I want them to want to fuck me because, again, I’m a nice slab of meat these days.
See? I knew JOTB was good for something.
Thanks for pointing out where I got my experience with married women wrong. Completely understand now.
JACK OUTSIDE THE BOX
You should ignore what a girl says ,only what she does.
You talk here about Type 2s who cheat on their husband but still love him.
But what you say is DISNEY.
That girl who is cheating is happy because she has the best of both worlds: a beta husband,and an alpha on the side.(hypergamy).Not because her husband is such a great man,an unicorn.
You also had a report on masf,where you talked about an FB who you fucked on her wedding day,that later asked you if you will be her BF if she dumps her husband.(or something like that)
So what you say about type 2s who cheat on their husband,but still love him is pure Disney.
A type 2 who cheats on a bf can be very easily convinced by the alpha on the side ,to dump her bf and to be with him,if that alpha wants that,and she will do that irrespective how much she talks about loving her loser bf.
Again,You should ignore what a girl says ,only what she does.
Wow! Then monk mode is very appropriate for you, since no girl on the planet will ever fuck only you. Or if she will, you’ll have no way of verifying it, as we no longer live in a society of neighbors observing neighbors.
So….you’re saying that fuck buddies aren’t for you? Friends with benefits arrangements aren’t for you? MLTRs aren’t for you? OLTRs aren’t for you? No woman is for you……except…..girls who are monogamous with you? Even one night stands you can’t handle because the girl probably fucked a guy last night???
Wow! Yeah……..unless you can get over sharing your woman with other men, I say stay celibate, because you’re hoping for the impossible!
That’s sad.
Only if she is an r-selected girl. I’ll explain below.
NO!!! Totally wrong!!! Unless she is traditionalist in her sexual thinking; then you’re correct.
See, your problem is that you’re still thinking like a monogamist. You think, “there is no way a girl would cheat on me, unless she’s dissatisfied with me somehow.” That’s only true if she’s a k-selected prude, or past the three year mark.
There are two types of female cheaters – (1) those who cheat because there is a problem in their relationships and (2) those who cheat despite their relationships being perfect.
The former is a traditionalist type: She’s gotten bored with her man and is looking for excitement. Or he doesn’t fuck her well enough, or abuses her, or whatever.
But the latter is a truly sexually liberated woman. She is desperately in love with her boyfriend/husband, fucks him every day, and thinks he’s perfect. But she will cheat on him with you because…….she’s horny and she loves dick! In her mind, this has nothing to do with him.
This is just something she does for herself (like yoga). The reason she’s hiding it from the man she loves is because he wouldn’t understand, so she is compassionate enough to protect her one true love from a complicated reality – plus she’d kill herself if he ever found out and left her. This is an r-selected woman who wasn’t lucky enough to have found the poly community!
Note the above is the first half of my post to JudoJohn which this blog’s “internal server error” will still not allow me to post in its entirety unless I post a shorter message and then complete it using the edit function.
I don’t mean to badger you BD (especially while you’re on vacation), but I just hope you’re aware of this site’s “internal server error.” Have fun on vacation though.
Ginger:
Your comment embodies that societal programming laden buffer that Rollo dishes out. Yes, yes, women are horrible evil creatures. We understand.
Does any of that help you get laid, make more money, or ease your life? Move you toward loving women and yet staying free?
If no, why bother? Unless you want to be angry all the time. The world is full of bitter people who’d rather bitch about something “that just isn’t right”
Are you that person? Because if you are this isn’t the blog for you.
blackdragon, have u been invited to YouTube Red man group for weekly podcast? It’ll be interesting conversation among yours.
Another interesting blog and I have to 100% agree.
I mean my parents have been married for 30 years but my Dad is extremely dominant and my mother is very religious, traditionalist and submissive (they’re both Nigerian) so this is why their marriage lasts.
But modern western girls are not like this. They don’t have these values. Even if you’re an alpha 2.0 boyfriend, they will get bored of fucking you down the line and seek out freshness. If she has good family values then she won’t leave you if you’re fulfilling your provider role and some of her Disney. Even you as a man, your biology dictates that you will sleep with more than one woman over your lifetime even after you marry the ‘love of your life’. Once the NRE wares off, you’ll be itching for a new sexual experience even if you love your wife emotionally and physically.
I am in an OLTR myself (it was a battle to get to this point, trust me) and jealously always lingers. One way I’ve combated this is by being fully engrossed in my mission that even caring who my GF is occasionally sleeping with is almost insignificant. Also, my OLTR is going to be 30 next year and we have a young daughter so she is not going to be sleeping with loads of guys at this stage in her life.
If you want an OLTR where your woman won’t be sleeping around too much, be with a woman who is at least 27 and over. By then, they’ve got it pretty much out there system and are looking to settle down. Don’t get into an OLTR with a 22-year old. Like never! lol
Jack Outside The box
You said that you are in oltr and your gf fucked over 100 guys.
What std does she has,out of curiosity?
I personally have no problem if I have an Oltr like that,she could fuck 200 guys without any jealousy from me,but she will puy my health at risk.So im curios if she got easy Std or something more bad like genital herpes.Genital herpes meaning a break up from my part if she got that.
What Oltr rules you have in your relationship?
What rules she broke?
Do you trust her with the safe sex rules?
This is not my experience. I think women’s sex drive increases with age. And I know plenty of Asian girls who were virgins until well past their mid twenties who went wild when they hit thirty and are still going on an upward trajectory into their forties.
I always thought for matching sex drive, older men/ younger women, younger men/ older women is the way to go. It worked well for me when I was younger and it’s working well now.
But it’s not a competition. Someone has to have a stronger sex drive and if it’s her, good luck to her. If you’re both non-monog, it doesn’t really matter if she has more partners than you do.
Women are just fundamentally capable of having sex with more partners in a short time than men, it’s basic biology.
I don’t do the OLTR thing. But I’ve got FBs who have sex much more often than I do. Doesn’t worry me at all.
I’ll be honest, Jack, I’ve had an impressive run of virgins. Wife 1, I was n = 4. Wife 2, I was n = 1. Last girlfriend, I was n = 1. That’s 20 years of women. To be fair, I didn’t know that wife 2 was a virgin until we were naked, while the girlfriend was straight up out to lose her v-card.
I also fucked a woman with an admitted n count of 200+. She was good, no doubt about it! She was also a single mother and I had a frame of paper mache so I ghosted her.
At this point I’m not aiming for monogamy or even a girlfriend. There are practical reasons, the ones Caleb lays out, and there are other practical reasons, like I’m a 46 y/o good looking loser. I suppose I could be a good plow horse if I really wanted to, but it is far more prudent to take these next few years and get things sorted out for the long term. The Great Recession plus being an AFC really fucked me up, but I’ve made huge strides in recovery.
So yeah, not even close to an OLTR, but FB‘s and MLTR‘s remain intriguing. I’m a busy guy and see this in a practical way. If I’m totally unwilling to “commit” (and I’m totally unwilling to commit) then of course any woman I start seeing will have every right to be banging other guys. Fair’s fair. To look a woman I love in the eye while she’s getting plowed by another dude? I’m not even close to that.
I really appreciate your input, though, and will be saving this webpage (not the link, the webpage, I could seed a new manosphere with what I have backed up in a couple places) for future reference as you’ve given me plenty to chew on.
@Lyon grow the fuck up, herpes are a fact of life.
As the late, great Patrice O’Neil said, “You want all your sex between 30 and 50, but the value of a vagina only goes from 18 to 29” LMFAO
I tend to agree, and if you’ve been following my conversation with Jack, yet another wrinkle is that when I was about 16 to 18 my mother passed me around about 6 of her friends. I have only fucked 1 woman over 40 since I was a teenager, but fucked at least 6 back then!
This was honestly bad. I have always had pussy thrown at me. Even the VYW threw herself at me. If I can’t break through this in 2019…..shit, I don’t know. It is straight up cringe-worthy how many opportunities I’ve passed up.
BD, I know you allow off topic, but apologies for distraction anyway. It’s been helpful, though.
When I read the title of the piece, and then the piece, I knew you’d miss the mistake I made with wife #2, which shows how deep the SP went with me….especially considering my feminist mother’s constant harping on how men should be useful to women…..
11) Don’t marry to make her happy.
Yeah, it was that bad, and clearly I didn’t do the poor girl any favors.
@Vanilla Boy
In my context, because my OLTR is 27 and has a baby, her desire to have more sex with different men is less right now because she is more focused on raising our child. Of course, I suspect that her sex drive will shoot right back up once our child is more independent and I know it won’t be my penis she’ll be dying for no matter how orgasmic my sex is (and it is very orgasmic). After 10 years of just my penis how can I expect her to muster so much enthusiasm.
Women get bored overtime with an alpha where as an alpha man will never be bored of his wife if he loves her or even bored of having sex with her but he will variety. Not all men of course but many I feel.I am certainly like this. The thought of having sex with just my OLTR till I am dead scares me more than the prospect of death lool
Yes and I’ve spoken to both Rollo and Richard about it. I’ll will do it, soon. Just don’t know when yet. My travel schedule has been difficult lately (obviously) and their episodes are 3-4 hours which is hard to put into my schedule, but I will do it soon.
Yeah, I remember you saying that in another thread. It doesn’t sound like an ideal situation. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I can see that crosses boundaries that I don’t think should be crossed.
I think it wasn’t until I was 30 that I had sex with a woman younger than me. Haha. But I’d barely seen my mother since I was 15. She might not have been the text book ideal parent either, but the flip side is that at least she never got involved in my sex life.
Nice understatement! “Normal” relationships are hard enough, BD’s system takes it to a whole different level. However, one major lesson I’ve had over the last couple decades is I’m doing women no favors with my dysfunction. Many women would be more than willing to have relationships with me, even if I was following BD’s formulas to the letter, I’m sure of it.
To continue with the off topic…. I have never fucked a woman over 40 until the last year. I have had 2 during that time who could cum for as long as I could fuck them. No matter how long. If I played with them and fucked with them for an hour they’d cum the entire time. And a higher percentage squirters.. I’d like to think it was me but not likely.. It was a real wakeup call..
This has to do with neural and body circuitry. There is a positive feedback loop at play here. A rather glorious one at that!
My VYW, she made me make her cum every time, and I could do it….but it was the 200+ n count woman who, on one of her visits when I went down on her, came, then came again, then again, then again, then went out like a light. Older women are way more orgasmic, and while our skills (and their attitudes/fantasies towards us) matter, their own tempering matters more.
My VYW told me that subsequently she has started with the multiples….it’s like don’t judge me, it was hard enough to get you to 1!!!! But she was inexperienced.
JudoJohn
You said:
I was talking about genital herpes,and an Oltr cant get genital herpes if she repects the safe sex rules.If she breaks the rules and gets that Std,then goodbye.
Bullshit.
There’s a possibility of a latent infection from year’s past, plus condoms are less effective for HSV-2 than most other STI’s.
I’m totally convinced that the main reason there aren’t more cases of HSV-2 than there are is because childhood HSV-1 provides some level of protection (think I picked that up from the CDC).
Not when she’s in bed. During sex, her most honest and raw personality comes out.
Not “but.” Rather “and.” And still love him.
Love is Disney? Er, okay. You must live a sad life if you believe that.
That depends. Yes, many wives (more conservative) cheat for exactly the reason you stated. The husband is a beta provider while her fuck buddies are the alphas who provide dick on the side.
But women who are more liberal will cheat on anyone because, just like us guys, they crave variety. Some of them find the poly community and become non-monogamous. Others get monogamous alpha 1.0 husbands and cheat indefinitely because “it doesn’t count.” These are the women with very high sex drives that I’m talking about.
Sedfast, not masf.
Wedding morning, yes. Her bridesmaids had our back and kept the fiance away while we fucked, telling him, “it’s bad luck to see the bride before the wedding, hee, hee, hee.”
Actually, she said that she wanted to fuck me one last time in order to get closure, so that her marriage can have a clean start. Months later, when I saw her on Thanksgiving while she was piss drunk, she said that. I said no, since, by then, was already in the process of converting my MLTR into my current OLTR girlfriend. And I didn’t fuck her while she was married. She was a drunk mess when I saw her last.
And still love them, not “but.” The one you’re talking about had a beta husband, yes. But that’s just one example. Since then, I have fucked women with alpha husbands. Although a few of them are in open marriages, but several were cheating on their alpha husbands because they’re just poly by nature, but haven’t discovered open relationships (or have, but know that the alpha husband wouldn’t agree, so they have to cheat, while still very much loving him and wanting him).
I’ve experienced these types of high sex drive women personally. They love their alpha husbands dearly and get some discreet dick on the side, which doesn’t count. Believe me. They exist.
106 now. She and her lesbian friend with benefits went to a swinger party on Halloween where she fucked 6 new guys.
She had chlamydia twice and gonorrhea once (which she only recently admitted to me). But she had those before we met. She’s clean now.
You may speculate that she has herpes, but she’s never been diagnosed. If she has it (or if I have it) it’s asymptomatic.
Not if she is responsible. My girl mostly sleeps with her social circle and trusted members of her poly community.
Standard. We are emotionally exclusive. Only I can be her primary, or date her in any way. Both she and I may have secondaries (friends with benefits) and tertiaries (fuck buddies and one night stands).
She hasn’t broken any.
Of course. If I didn’t trust her, I would have never upgraded her from the fuck buddy level, to the friend with benefits level, to the MLTR level, and now to the OLTR level.
I even upgraded her to the live-in OLTR level, until we realized it wasn’t working, so she moved out and now we’re happy again.
So yeah, I trust her.
“Being in love is not a reason to marry someone. Much or all of that “love” you feel is actually NRE and this shit will fade fast once you two get married.”
If you redefine love to mean lust or infatuation, your statement means nothing.
Awesome!
Seriously? Dude, that’s painful to read.
I don’t get it. A boyfriend and girlfriend in an open relationship want to have a threesome with you! And you’re saying “no?” What exactly do you distrust?
So what’s the problem?
What do you think I’m gonna say?
And yet, you’re turning them all down.
Damn son! So you only fucked three inexperienced women in 20 years?
You and I are very different. I get turned off if I find out that a woman has had sex with less than 10 men. In order to be MLTR, and especially OLTR, material, she has to have fucked at least 15 men or more. Otherwise, I pass. I only want women with experience.
I also can’t be their only source of sex, or they get needy. They must be fucking at least one other man besides me (two is preferable).
Yeah, there’s no way I’d fuck a virgin. Never!
First of all, it’s illegal to go below 18, and if she’s still a virgin at 18, I want to puke with disgust. My girlfriend’s lay count was already in the double digits at 18 (one year before I met her), and all the girls that I grew up with as a teenager lost their virginities at around 14-15. A few (like my second girlfriend in high school) lost theirs at 12.
I went to an upper middle class high school with kids who were very sexed up. I lost my virginity at 15 and everyone was making fun of me for losing it at such an old age. No joke.
Yeah, single mothers are only good as fuck buddies. Maybe friends with benefits, but you have to make sure you have zero contact with the kid.
Well good. At least you’re willing to allow that.
You should still fuck girls in open relationships, as well as cheaters who have no problems in their relationships/marriages, but just need some dick on the side due to high sex drives. It will be therapeutic for you, as you see that poly and cheating are both no big deal.
Thank you.
No, there is no difference. If a woman is cheating on her boyfriend/husband with you, she’s basically in a non-monogamous relationship, except he doesn’t know it (and there’s no reason he should, unless they’re poly).
If she’s fucking you while single, and then initiates a new sexual relationship with someone else, same difference.
Of course, there are different levels of seriousness. When she initiated that new relationship, was she just your fuck buddy? Friend with benefits? Or was she your serious girlfriend? If she was your girlfriend, were you open, or was she cheating?
If she’s a red pilled woman, the difference between her being poly or cheating is trivial because the consequences for the boyfriend are identical (read: none), but if she’s traditional AND cheating on you, just make sure there is no trouble in your relationship, because blue pilled women tend to cheat when they have lost respect for their man and are looking to upgrade, or when you are the beta provider.
My solution: Forget about traditional women.
@Jack Outside the Box
You hit the nail on the proverbial head, mate. It doesn’t matter if you’re alpha 1.0 or alpha 2.0, a high-sex drive woman will have sex with other men because she can’t stick to one penis even if she loves you emotionally and you give her righteous, orgasmic, head-exploding, vagina-shattering sex. She will become bored and I love these type of women. My OLTR is a high sex drive woman and I am a high-sex drive girl, so an open relationship is fine for us. And I’ve told her, that I usually only sleep with other women when I am on a business trip or on holiday with the lads and she is free to do as she pleases so long as she uses protection.
Sex is just sex. Like eating food. It’s your woman’s emotional support and love for you that matters. Overcome your OBW.
Oh for fuck sake!!! Dude, let me spell it out for you:
This is NOT a battle of you against the boyfriend!
This is NOT a competition or a dick measuring contest!
This is NOT something you do based on sadism, hatred, maliciousness, or cruelty!
If you falsely believe that a girlfriend or wife will only cheat if there is something wrong with her main man, then you implicitly believe that a woman won’t cheat on you if there is nothing wrong with you. So you will then try to fix yourself and make sure there isn’t anything wrong with you, which will lull you into a false sense of security if you ever make the mistake of going monogamous again. You’re setting yourself up for a huge crash with this thinking.
Believing that a woman would never cheat unless there is something wrong with her man is believing that women are angels of purity. They’re not. They’re just as horny as us and will cheat even if it’s not our fault, because it’s biology, just like it’s ours!
If you have ever been cheated on, you need to let go of the guilt. You need to also stop using your own insecurities as a strangely comforting justification for your ex’s actions, implying that if you just fix your faults, the next one won’t cheat, because women are angels at heart and only cheat on weak betas! Bullshit!
You did nothing wrong. It’s not your fault. It’s just her DNA, just like it’s our DNA to do the same!
So dump all that blue pill, alpha 1.0 macho bullshit!
Instead, the boyfriend or husband shouldn’t even exist in your world. If she’s married or taken, that’s her problem. Proceed just as if she were single. The ball is 100 percent in her court! If she gives you signs of interest, then seduce her and sleep with her, just like if she were single. If she rejects you, then forget about her, also just like if she were single.
You see how her relationship status means nothing to you? Contrary to what the tradcons say, the woman is not property. It’s not the same as stealing a man’s car or wallet, or breaking into his home. The woman has free will. She is not a possession. Monogamy is an illusion which propagates the barbaric fiction of human ownership.
So, if she chooses to have sex with you, that’s all the justification you need. Her relationship status is her problem, not yours.
Guys always ask, “How do I get her away from the boyfriend?” This is the same question as, “She told me she has a busy schedule. How do I fit myself into her time?”
The red pill answer is obvious: You don’t. Your job isn’t to get into the back of her line. Your job is to persuade her to get into the front of yours.
If she is interested and super attracted to you, her schedule will miraculously open up. Likewise, if she’s super horny and wants you inside her badly, she will make her boyfriend or husband conveniently disappear.
Your only job is to attract and seduce her. This job you do in the same way, regardless of any silly boyfriend that she might have. Just make her want you, and she’ll take care of the rest, regardless of whether she’s taken or not. The only difference is if she’s taken, you might want to communicate that you are a super discrete guy and will never fuck and tell.
But it must NEVER be your goal to ruin her marriage or relationship, or hurt her relationship with her primary partner in any way. Never make her choose between you and him. On the contrary, your job is precisely to protect him and make sure they are both happy together by making sure the man never finds out, because you fucking her is NOT a sign of his inferiority. He doesn’t deserve any pain.
In fact, by fucking her, you may be doing him a favor and strengthening her relationship with him by putting her in a better mood while she’s around him. Indeed, there have been married women who have cheated with me who told me I saved their marriage by giving them some perspective.
In short, you must start thinking like a polyamorist. You fucking the wife or girlfriend is NOT an insult to her husband or boyfriend (even though the poor man would think it is if he found out).
You are complimenting him by having good taste in women, strengthening his relationship with her by spicing up her life, and you hope that one day he’ll join you in this mindset, even while you indirectly help him along that correct path by discreetly fucking his woman!
At the top of the red pill world, the top guys help each other out and share their women with each other, and the women share their men with each other.
We’re not insulting each other by having sex with our women. We’re precisely complimenting each other and strengthening our friendship bond. If the guy is not evolved enough to be allowed access to this knowledge, so be it. But you fucking his woman doesn’t make him pathetic! Quite the contrary, you are indirectly helping him along his journey, even if he doesn’t know it yet!
Can you elaborate on this? Your mother hooked you up with her female friends? If I had a mother like that, I’d be crying tears of joy. But you act as if it was a negative experience.
Were you raped? Or was it consensual? Were her friends ugly or hot?
If her friends were hot and the sex was consensual, then I’d say she was the coolest and most red pill mother in the world. But I get the impression that I’m missing something.
What do you mean when you say you were “passed around?”
LOL! Which one of us is the tradcon again?
And please, tell me again that you think I’m a tradcon because I hate tradcons (read: Muslims). I need a good laugh.
The reason married women who are cheating on their monogamous husbands turn me on the most is because having sex with me is, for them, an act of raw biological honesty superseding their societal programming, which makes it the most exciting!
Sleeping with a cheating wife is the exact opposite of sleeping with a prostitute.
Here are my sexual turn ons (from least to greatest):
1. Prostitutes/gold diggers/provider hunters – These are fake actresses who force themselves to have sex for money. In doing so, they actually suppress their true personalities in bed because they’re in it for the money. No thank you.
2. Single women who have sex in exchange for sex – These women are sexually sincere and allow their true personalities to shine in the bedroom. Sex is, for them, an act of biological honesty, which gratifies me, thus allowing me to enjoy it.
3. Women in open/poly arrangements – These women are even more honest with themselves than sexually active single women, because they have dispensed with societal programming completely and have embraced their true selves, thus making sex an even more raw act of biological honesty which gratifies me immensely. Very cool and very hot.
4. Women who are monogamous and cheating – These women (especially the ones who are actually married and cheating) are the gold standard as far as raw animal passion is concerned. Because they are steeped in monogamous societal programming, but realize they can’t sustain it because they’re just too horny. So, despite the risks and the cultural shame, they bravely give in to their temptations and drop their blue pill mask even more violently than the woman who is poly. She is risking everything, but she just can’t maintain the blue pill monogamy lie anymore. She realizes that she has no choice but to be true to herself, even if she has to risk it all!
This makes the sex with her truly the most raw, dangerous, brave, and radical act of biological honesty you can ever hope to experience from a woman. It’s the hottest and most biologically sincere sex you’ll ever get – the most passionate and the exact opposite of the prostitute! It’s an act of truth and liberation in a world of lies! From the perspective of pure animal lust, there’s nothing hotter or more beautiful than this!
My girlfriend is exactly like this. And she’s 25 – exactly 10 years younger than me. She cums sooooo easily and always multiple times. On her best days, she has described sex as one giant hour long orgasm! And her moans are always loud and ecstatic!
I wish us men could experience sex that is that powerful. If I had a sex drive as intense as hers, I’d probably have a lay count in the triple digits myself by now. And yet, she’s 10 years younger than me and has fucked more than double the amount of people that I have (106). I haven’t even reached 50 yet. Oh well, lol! Chalk it up to being more pleasure of sex and less thrill of the hunt. That’s a factor also.
What do you mean by “good family values?” Those puritanical family values which turn the woman into a gold digging parasite are not good. Those traditional values are decidedly very bad.
Don’t bullshit yourself. That is simply your jealousy talking.
This is pure blue pill nonsense! No one “gets it out of their system.” That is alpha 1.0 Guy-Disney. Once she settles down, she will cheat, which is why being open is the best solution.
I regret to inform you that our system keeps making more. I suggest you spend more time in the West.
Why not? And why wouldn’t you want your girlfriend to sleep around?
Amen!
They are indeed the best women in the world.
Interesting. Are you a lesbian or bi?
So she’s more bisexual than you?
Well said!
JOTB:
Very helpful stuff, thank you.
I also have this mindset problem. It’s difficult for me to apply the same thinking to woman that I have for myself…that sex on the side was in no way a reflection of how I felt about my wife.
Part of that is I’m the only man my wife’s ever had, and I was super proud of getting my unicorn virgin (of course her virginity was due to an ultra low sex drive, and I’m a want sex daily type of guy…)
Hell, I’m divorcing her and STILL get jealous over the fact that she will fuck someone else at some point.
And yeah, it’s insecurity. Must be something wrong with me if she wants other dick besides mine.
That insecurity came out in the past as jealousy to the point of breaking furniture and punching doors and walls. My woman must be controlled! Haha, oh man…WTF?
Some of this 1.0 programming is very difficult to rewire!
Jack outside the box
You said that your gf fucked 106 guys.Dont you think that from all this guys there were at least 5 who were more alpha than you?If she meets a bigger alpha than you,dont you think she will dump you in order to be with him?
If a r selected womem had an alpha bf in the past that was more alpha,than her current oltr,If that ex comes back in her life,will she go to him and dump the current oltr or will she stay in a relationship with her current oltr?(who is a lesser alpha)
The “utility” of these concepts is in convincing men to forget Disney and avoid marriage.
That’s pure gold right there, Jack. To be quite clear, I am not looking to take anyone from anyone, and I totally, totally see your points about how getting some on the side can be very good for women.
Couldn’t agree more, I want nothing to do with that drama, never mind the ethics. Also, I will not be there to pick up the pieces. In fact, in all honesty, the LSNFTE was always one of the more intriguing things about BD’s whole system. To be the guy she fucks while looking for a husband/boyfriend, or like you’re saying, the guy she fucks to fill biological needs, yeah, that sounds just fine. I have way too much to do in life right now than make any compromise with a woman, which disqualifies me from traditional LTRs.
With one exception (a young college girl who would flash her tits to anyone who asked because they were perfect), it was absolutely horrid. It’s hard to overstate how fucked up it all was. My mother was a junkie and a pimp….a man hating lesbian with one child, a son, and a relatively normal one at that. It took a good woman, my first wife, to pull me at least partly out of that pit of misery. The anti male bias planted in my mind and notion that men must be useful to women is something to keep in mind if you read the rest of this post.
She was 19 and from a fundamentalist Jewish cult. We met in college, where I was riding out the Great Recession (yeah I’ve had a fucked up go of it, but I’m kicking ass anyway). I was 39. She knew exactly what she was doing and was enthusiastic about it. She used me to enter the mainstream. 10/10, would do again, incredibly bright girl and it didn’t take all that much training to get up to speed sexually. She’s off to grad school summer of ’16 but we’re still relatively close.
And to be absolutely clear about the practical problem, I have never, ever been a seducer. Women have just fallen into my lap. I already said what happened when I was a kid…..yes I did ask my first wife out but there was a SMV mismatch and my tentative request was met with enthusiasm….my second wife was a coworker and things sort of developed once we started playing Starcraft….my VYW gf, we chatted for hours on end for an entire semester in the math lab, I walked her to the bus stop often, people were asking me “Are you going to ask her out?” but I never did, I said a the end of the semester that I’d email her something and she said “You know I don’t check my email, here’s my number instead.”
Cringeworthy as fuck, I readily admit.
This is a massive general problem for me. I get eye fucked all the time. I put up a pic on photofeeler, set my age at 35, showed myself to women 19 to 35, and ranked in the top 10%. Of course, comparing myself to guys my age, I’m top 5%. In these days of invisible incels shooting up sororities and driving trucks into crowds I get plenty of attention and do nothing with it. It’s painful to admit.
I know what I need to do. BD writes for a general male audience, but the Good Looking Loser has the seduction system I’d use if I got my head out of my ass. Never leave the house unless you and it are looking good, talk to a woman a day, invite her out for a drink, if drinking invite her home for a nightcap. Simples. I know what to do from there, to be sure, and after that BD’s system should kick in. For someone with wit, good facial features, a nice v-taper and a sweet bachelor pad…..I actually know it would work.
On the Red Pill forum, a guy said he thinks it’s a mix of imposture syndrome and Jonah complex. I think that’s about right. I almost want to take a hit of acid/ecstasy/some other alchemal substance and get in touch with my shadow. My shadow isn’t even dark….newsflash, women actually like being railed by a non-needy, non-judgemental stud.
This has been extremely helpful, Jack. My shadow is not dark and nothing to be afraid of. Every woman who has moved on from me has been somewhat reluctant to do so. Every woman who opens themselves to me in hopes that I have the balls to escalate is doing so because she sees a stud but also a good and trustworthy guy. I should trust all of these women and distrust the oak trees of doubt that have grown so stupendously in my mind. As stupid as it sounds on an Alpha 2.0 blog, there is nothing wrong with my (fairly vanilla!) heterosexual male desire to seduce multiple women for the single goal of mutual sexual gratification with long term commitment entirely off the table.
If you’re “that guy” you’re not really doing it correctly. This is not having an affair with a taken woman. Usually the way it happens, if you do things correctly, is the girl calls “hey my man’s an ass can I come over? I need a drink!” You listen to nonsense about how he cheats on her (the most common), liked some other girl’s IM picture that she thinks he’s banging (just got that one), mean to her (abusive), and etc.. bla bla bla… then you fuck her and she goes back to her man and you don’t hear from her again until he does one of the above again. You’re not texting back and forth daily. I have never fucked a woman who was actually happy in their relationship (good for those who find those women). There’s always some drama. I almost always am fucking a chick who has an alpha, abusive, cheating, dirt bag boyfriend, who they’re in love with and can’t leave because they’d just die.. Of heart break. So they cheat with me because you know.. He’s a does the same and is awful.. The only exception is women who are going thru an actual divorce..
I usually stick to fucking girls with alphas because those are the one’s that usually cheat. I haven’t found too many women with beta good guys who cheat on the regular, with the same guy (maybe one offs), unless it’s an actual potential affair.. I’m sure they’re out there and I hear they are but I don’t find them.. Women with alpha pieces of shit will keep you as a state secret as long as you keep it strictly Fuck Buddy. They’re masters. I had one regular who literally had 1 Alpha BF, 1 Beta BF and then me a fuck buddy. Neither knew about the other. The only real risk was between the beta and the alpha bfs because the beta was expendable and a pussy.. Kind of funny and she was better than the CIA
@Jack Outside the Box
Nah mate, I am not a bi. Just a guy with a sex drive. I love my OLTR but we both know we’re not going to be sexually exclusive to each other for years and years so instead of cheating behind each other’s back, we’re honest with each other. None of this DISNEY bullshit.
Of course, I wasn’t always like this but reading BD’s blog and his book, Unchained Man, has really opened my eyes.
Men need to stop being scared or annoyed at women who are sexual. I know it’s annoying because it’s easier for them to get sex than it is for us but it doesn’t matter. And once you have a child with a woman, if you’ve chosen correctly, she won’t even sleep around so much trust me. You’ll be sleeping around more.
Online dating is even easier, ever give that a try?
Here’s my beef with online dating: any woman who has a dating profile up has a laundry list of what she thinks she wants. It’s probably not me. I have opened, and even been opened by, women who would swipe left or ignore my message. IMO there is nothing more effective than the Pavlovian approach….if she holds eye contact more than 3 seconds or looks away and right back, walk up and say hi. My problem is more escalation anxiety than approach anxiety.
Yeah, that’s bullshit.
He’s not selling to early adopters, his readers are jaded divorced guys and incels. If you take the comments at face value.
Plus, he’s mono married. Talk about Disney.
You should apply that way of thinking only to liberal and moderate women, not hyper-conservative or ultra low sex drive women. The same thinking certainly doesn’t apply to them. That’s why, as I always say, stay away from traditional prudes.
There you go. In that case, nothing I’m saying applies.
The logic and psychology of traditional male slut shamers applies perfectly to traditional hyper-feminine women. The problem only arises when these male tradcons start applying the same logic to women who aren’t ultra-feminine, ultra low sex drive prudes.
Traditional men and traditional women were made for each other. If you have a traditional wife with a super low sex drive, her cheating on you is definitely a sign that your marriage is over because a woman like that would never sleep with someone else unless she is falling in love with someone else and falling out of love with you. Because women with virtually non-existent sex drives have no use for sex, except to show how much they’re in love with you.
If a hyper-feminine, low sex drive woman like that is cheating on you, it means she fell in love with the other man and she will freeze up every time you, the husband, even so much as try to touch her.
So, in that scenario, you’d be insane if you weren’t hyper-territorial. All of my rantings against that mindset are predicated on one important assumption – You’re not dealing with a hyper-feminine and super low sex drive traditional prude.
But if you are, because hyper-feminine prudes turn you on (whereas they make me want to puke), then yeah, definitely be the territorial alpha 1.0, because if your low to non-existent sex drive woman fucks someone else, it means she has fallen out of love with you.
But my logic is the exact opposite because I could never be with such a woman who only fucks me twice a year, and only at night with the lights off and in the missionary position. That’s a different world with different rules that I want no part of.
Ok, yeah, that’s going too far, even if you’re dealing with a hyper-feminine prude. If you’re no longer together, she can fuck whoever she wants. But you can take comfort in the fact that her sex drive is super low, so she will probably only fuck the poor schmuck twice a year (once on his birthday and once on Valentine’s Day) with the lights off while being completely silent.
Even if a low sex drive prude wants other dick besides yours (and is therefore falling in love with another man), it still doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. Basic biology dictates that a woman will eventually get bored even with the toughest alpha. That’s why long term monogamy doesn’t work. And short term monogamy only works for people with low sex drives or for cheaters.
LOL!
Rewire it only when it comes to moderate to liberal western women. In my case, this required me to completely reject all traditional/slut shaming programming, because I’m not attracted to hyper-feminine prudes. But if uptight low sex drive virgins are your thing, than the traditional “anti-slut” mindset of the territorial alpha 1.0 starts to make a whole lot of sense.
It’s just not applicable on a sex-positive or sexually liberated forum like this one where our goal is to live a sex-positive lifestyle with sex-positive women.
Probably. So what?
She’s already with him. I’m sure he gives her great sex. But why would she dump me? You’re thinking like a monogamist.
My girl and I are poly. She doesn’t tolerate territorial alpha 1.0s who think she needs to dump me in order to be with them. She can have both me and them.
As BD has pointed out, most girls in open relationships don’t dump their alpha boyfriend for another alpha boyfriend. They just fuck other alphas. Instead, they dump their alpha boyfriends so they can be with beta boyfriends because the betas will give them Disney monogamy. Then she will get bored with her beta boyfriend and cheat on him with her alpha ex-boyfriend.
But none of this applies to my girl because she doesn’t want Disney monogamy, so the betas can’t tempt her, nor can alphas give her anything that I’m not giving her, especially since she’s already fucking them regardless.
I don’t know. Most likely, we’d have lots of threesomes with him. Worst case scenario – She’ll downgrade me to friend with benefits or fuck buddy, while she resumes her serious relationship with him. It’s a risk, but no relationship is without risk. Polyamory simply minimizes and smooths over most of the risks. It’s not the best system (there is no such thing), but it’s the least bad.
And in real life they don’t have the same laundry list?
Dude, your confidence is in the toilet. You must dispense with this pathetic mindset. What a woman wants and what she says she wants are two different things. Don’t pay attention to what they say on their profiles. Nine times out of ten, it’s all bullshit. I’ve fucked many women on the first date, for example, who explicitly said on their profiles that they don’t fuck anyone until date 3. Pay no attention. She just wants to look cool for her friends.
So? They do that in real life too.
Online, they explicitly expect you to escalate because they have no plausible deniability for being there. In real life, that’s not the case. Even in a club, they can say they’re just there to dance. That’s why I love online dating and referral game – you completely cut out the deniability bullshit!
Jack outside the box
Last question on this subject.
If an r selected women ,or any girl had an alpha bf in the past,and she is your oltr but you are a lesser alpha,and her ex comes in her life and she breaks up with you or downgrades you in order to be with him.All this time until the ex came back to her,did she love you in the first place or not?My guess is that in a stituation like this ,she didnt loved you,she always was in love with her alpha ex,and she stayed with you for comfort,or cause you were attractive but she didnt love you at all.
All this time while she was with you she was lying that she loves you,but she was thinking about her ex.What do you think?
In your last post, you explicitly identified yourself as a girl. Hell of a typo.
Good.
Fully agree.
Of course the needs of a baby take priority over everything else. So both parents will have to surrender the majority of their time to the child and limit their extracurricular activities. And that time is gradually given back to the parents as the child grows up. But that doesn’t mean you both shouldn’t sleep with anyone else at all.
My girlfriend has a fuck buddy with a fetish for pregnant women. He can’t wait until I get her pregnant so he can really rail her. And it’s funny because we already have a nanny picked out from our poly circle whom we have had threesomes with. She has agreed to be our babysitter when the time comes. And yes, we will continue having threesomes with her after the baby goes to sleep. 🙂
This is truth, but only half.
Their insecurity (which feeds the jealousy and the possessiveness) is the other half.
And that poison is stitched together by your recognized and unrecognized societal programming.
This is why it’s so hard to unplug men. Their thinking is wrong and because they aren’t self aware they jump from betaized incel (aka married dude who just got dumped) to slut shaming tradcon alpha 1.0 or angry divorced guy because they cannot accept the truth.
They are the problem, because everything that happens in their lives is their fault.
All this controlling Alpha 1.0 crap is just changing cells inside of “the prison”. And it’s frus because they are so close. They could just walk away.
But they won’t because Pavlovian conditioning, and they are afraid.
I think 3 things:
1. You’re still thinking like a monogamist who assumes every girl is k selected, since you’re mostly describing the behavior of k-selected women.
2. You are suffering from massive insecurities and lack of confidence, which is very unattractive to women, thus opening up the potential for your worst fears to turn into self-fulfilling prophecies.
3. If an r-selected girl within the polyamory community doesn’t love me, but just wanted comfort until her ex-alpha came back, she would have kept me at the fuck buddy level, or at least on a level lower than OLTR.
This is yet another thing that distinguishes us from blue pill people. Unlike them, we don’t jump into serious relationships after just three weeks of fucking. My current girlfriend and I started as fuck buddies, which lasted for three months. We then upgraded each other to friends with benefits, which lasted for four months. Then we upgraded each other to MLTR status, which lasted for over a year. Then, we entered into a serious OLTR relationship after over three years of fucking and/or dating.
If she was lying about being in love with me, I would have never made it out of the friends with benefits level, or at least certainly not the MLTR level. Remember, in an MLTR you are allowed to date and even fall in love with other people. There are no rules.
Only after you are fully sure that you’re only in love with each other – only after your relationship passes through the testing fire of the MLTR – do you upgrade each other to OLTR status in which you aren’t allowed to date anyone else, but only fuck them. The OLTR is a piece of cake, compared to the MLTR level, which is why the MLTR must come first. As the movie DodgeBall said, “If you can dodge a bullet, you can dodge a ball.”
So you see, the polyamory OLTR structure has built-in safeguards against the scenario you are presenting. Your concerns are more realistic in the k-selected monogamy world where you make her your girlfriend and she says she’s in love with you only after three weeks of fucking, which is stupid.
Jack outside the box
Great answear,thank you.
This.
So much so it’s screwing with his objectivity.
Those insecurities and outcome dependency are manifesting in the women he’s attracting.
Break the cycle. Get some therapy* or something. Until you get that addressed, it’ll ruin everything else you try.
(*JOTB hates therapists, and I kinda do too, but for narrow objectives like finding the root of this insecurity and rooting it out I find them to be useful).
Nah, a therapist will accuse him of being a commitment-phobe and will encourage him to “trust women” when they say “I love you” and get monogamous as quickly as possible. “Communicate your vulnerabilities to your partner, cry in front of her, and then let’s do some trust exercises. Fall back and let your partner catch you.”
Fuck that! That will dry up her vagina faster than Harvey Weinstein saying, “watch me take a shower.”
The red pill community is better than therapy. Therapists have zero skills that we somehow lack. All they have is papers behind their name which affirm that they graduated from politically correct universities which force them to stick to “professional guidelines” and “personal boundaries.”
Translation: They’ll lose their license to practice if they dare to keep it real. Stick with red pillers.
After almost two years of fucking and/or dating.
Sorry, my math was fucked up.
You’re welcome.
Fuck therapy. I know exactly what I need to do.
There’s little chance any therapist would be on board with what I’m trying to do.
It is simply a matter of systematic desensitization. All I need are some plates in the air, and all this will even out.
Yup. Can confirm from personal experience. No amount of “lift and learn game” will fix it, either.
Yes to the first three but the Hallmark channel sucks!
You sound quite jaded and very emotional. Obviously your comment is incorrect. Yes, women want love and romance but it doesn’t mean they actually get it. Based on my experiences, I have found it very hard to find a man that wants romance for example. Men are just not into that in this day and age. BD isn’t romantic at all, so I don’t get everything I want, but I’m not jaded by it. You really shouldn’t get so worked up over this.
Wow, that’s a bold statement. I’m sure your mother would be proud of your comment. I honestly don’t think you actually believe that though. I think you like to get a reaction out of people.
He’s not completely wrong about that, Firefly. I certainly have taught myself that trusting any being with a vagina too much will not end well. And I’m seeing proof of this more and more and more. While chicks certainly exist for more than just sex, they should not have a significant role in a dude’s life. And certainly should not be trusted with stuff that is important to a dude.
Chicks have as much social leverage as dudes have and just like chicks couldn’t trust dudes back in the day, dudes can’t trust chicks too much nowadays because whenever anybody is given social leverage, they will take advantage of things. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and TMM gives women all kinds of power. Used to give dudes all kinds of power and look how that turned out. And the temptation to take advantage of people is very, very strong.
I’m sorry, but he is incorrect, women are not objects just to fuck. Women have come a long way and are certainly more than just “holes” to fuck. Clearly society wouldn’t be the way it is today if that were the case. Women are CEO’s, doctors, attorney’s, and a woman could be the next president. If they were just objects, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be any of these things. If you honestly think this is true, you probably have some serious issues to figure out. BD also doesn’t agree with that comment. It’s a pretty absurd statement. It would be like me saying that men are only good for their wallets. It’s almost 2019, men who actually believe this to be the case should probably get with the times, and show some respect.
The good news is that I don’t believe most men think this way. I believe most men to be respectful and supportive.
sadly saying, most women are only offering their ‘holes’.
how many females u see today’s they’re excellent at cooking, making sure she’s helping the male crawling out while he’s being at the deepest grave while maintaining their good physiques.
the ratio is almost the same maybe only 10% of males are alphas and nurturing females.
the 80:20 rule has been shrinken thanks to the change of environmental factors.
No one said women are objects. The concept of “objectification” is a lesbian myth.
You are interpreting his words the way an asexual thinks about sex. If I were to say “women are just for fucking” I wouldn’t be implying the lack of female heterosexuality that you are implying (or assuming that he is implying).
I think he was only referring to the personal sphere.
Please don’t go there. Please…..just………don’t.
Which no one is saying, except you. Why are you assuming that fucking isn’t mutual? Where did he even imply that?
The obvious difference is that sex is, by definition, mutual. By contrast, gold diggers are disgusting parasites who aren’t interested in anything symbiotic like sex. Apples and oranges.
I’ve said this to you before, but you have a tendency to interpret sex in a one way street fashion, especially if you’re comparing it to gold digging. Saying “women are only good for fucking” does not even remotely imply one way street sex.
Fucking a woman is NOT disrespectful. My fuck buddies are only good for fucking. Is that disrespectful? No, because they think the same about me.
I obviously don’t agree with his statement that all women should remain at the fuck buddy level permanently (like you, I’m in a serious open relationship myself, except I’m not married), but if I did agree with him, your accusations and interpretations of what that means would still be grossly incorrect and based in false traditionalist prudery.
I never said fucking is disrespectful. Obviously when two people want to fuck then great. I clearly stated that making a comment stating that women are only good for fucking and that is all they are good for is very disrespectful and clearly not true. Please get your facts straight.
Oh, I’ll go there! You are going to have get accept it if it happens anyway. Sorry.
I really don’t think so. Just because you think you are correct doesn’t actually make it so.
The facts are that you took the statement “women are only good for fucking” and began accusing the author of that statement of advocating “one way street sex” as if women are objects, when clearly, his statement did not imply that sex was anything less than mutual.
You admitted that this was your interpretation when you compared sex (mutual) to gold digging (one way) and made the false claim that saying “women are only good for fucking” was somehow comparable to saying that “men are only good for their wallets.”
I’m just telling you that that is a false analogy and you are comparing apples to oranges. It is your interpretation of his statement that is factually incorrect. To claim otherwise, you would have to at least wait till he says a lot more on the subject before confirming your interpretation.
If you explain that your insecurities are driving you to raging jealousy and possessiveness in your relationship with women, why wouldn’t they?
They are professional help. They work for you. If you don’t like their program, next em.
JOTB
What red pill suggestions do you have so he gets his jealousy, possessiveness, and neediness under control?
You sound quite jaded and very emotional. Obviously your comment is incorrect.
The discussion is about TMM and obviously that’s what my comment was in reference to. So, are you in a traditional marriage? No.. you’re in marriage created specifically for “jaded” (your term not mine) men who got fucked in TMM.. all kinds of protections were taken in your arrangement so BD didn’t get fucked in a divorce.. sorry but that’s a fact.. and yes getting destroyed in a divorce is a very “emotional” and damaging experience.. big part of this site is protecting against that..
so every single thing I said about TMM is 100% correct.. just because you don’t agree which my 100% correct comment doesn’t make me “jaded” or “emotional”. Pretty insulting..
on this I agree with you.. that’s a ridiculous comment by the poster.. why a lot of men on here still aren’t getting laid despite all the articles by BD on the subject..
Have you considered, for a moment, that those two aren’t mutually exclusive, and both can be true at the same time?
Cause you jaded and emotional, bro. Forget TMM for a second, you need to get that addressed one way or another because it’s messing up your life in other ways.
I agree but to a man, they deserve as much social agency as another man. I treat EVERY woman in my life like the men in my life, meaning they’re just people I hang out with (who I happen to also have sex with). Women get very little agency in my life, and if more and more men stop throwing them up on pedestals (which TMM and the narratives around it teaches), we would have a lot less misunderstandings when it comes to the sexes.
This stupid war on the sexes exists because men (and society in general) are giving women way too much social agency.
They like being sexually frustrated more than being sexually satisfied. If they had regular sex they would hate it and they would probably #metoo some of the chicks who they had sex with lol. Incels have a very, very low sex drive. But there do exist ones with regular sex drives and those are the ones worth helping.
Um, firefly, your own partner writes about chicks who think that way, and how that comprises the majority of 33+ women. And because MEN are giving women UNWANTED and UNNECESSARY agency, pretty much 85% of women say that men are only good for their wallets. Don’t believe me? Go on social media and take some notes about what their female users (of all ages) say.
Decades ago, it was completely permissible for dudes to think that chicks were just good for sex. Now that has been demonized, and it is now permissible for chicks to think that dudes are just good for their wallets. Both viewpoints suck, but at least the former is a bit more sex positive than the latter. JOTB would certainly agree.
And about respect, I think you are confusing it with courtesy. Yes, dudes need to be more courteous to chicks. After all, the majority of chicks are indeed courteous to dudes who aren’t creepy and cringy. But respect needs to be earned. And I can’t just respect a person just because they possess a vagina. Just like I’m not going to automatically respect a person because they are a member of my family or because they are my boss or something else that “society says” is best for me.
I legit respect like 8 people on this planet, myself included. But I’m courteous to everybody. There is a difference between courtesy and respect. People don’t know this, and stupidly lump the two together.
That’s a strawman created to discredit an opinion you don’t like, that is factual, because you don’t have a logical counter so you make it about the poster.. “ummm. I don’t agree because I don’t like it… you’re emotional and jaded..”. Sorry TMM is a bad arrangement for men and in the end when they go to court they usually get fucked.. that only makes me jaded and emotional if you don’t like the comment.
The problem here is that some commenters are equating, or seem like they’re equating “TMM is bad” (which of course it is) with “women are only good for fucking” (which of course is a silly statement and isn’t true).
And to go completely off topic, there is no “red pill,” it means different things to different groups in the manosphere.
Anyone in this thread who has jealousy, possessiveness, and neediness issues is probably ODing on dopamine. They should do a dopamine fast, as described here:
https://boldanddetermined.com/decrease-dopamine/
Or something I do called the “72 hour airplane mode challenge” which I do every month, which is in my blog here:
https://www.keepclimbingforever.com/72-hour-airplane-mode/
People who are too emotional are that way because they are on the internet for way too long. One of my childhood buddies has this problem. Because he plays video games online, he just gets psychotically emotional about everything in his life and blows everything out of proportion like a 2 year old.
He’s a good dude but because he craves dopamine so much its very difficult for him to actually approach problems logically. That’s because he’s not taking the time to plug out of everything and just think about stuff.
I make sure I spend at least 2-3 hours daily off of the internet, just to protect my own sanity.
Just to clarify, here’s my list of things that chicks are good for:
-sex
-company
Here’s my list of what men are good for:
-company
Here’s what someone in a TMM think chicks are good for (or are “supposed” to provide). The sexes can be reversed here too, but maybe the order is reversed
-sex
-company
-support
-favors
-money
-housing
So which one involves more pressure? THIS is why Alpha 2 is so important, to me it is not ethical to expect anything more than company (or sex and company if you are sexually attracted) from a person. If they want to give you stuff sure, but no one should be expecting that shit. TMM creates inhuman expectations that are not fair for anyone.
That’s why I included the context of “nowadays”.
My mother and father met at 14 and were married at 17, spending 60 odd years married and producing 7 children.
These days it is not unusual for twenty one year old girls to have 30 plus partners.
Different age, different culture, different rules.
John,
In your opinion, why is this such a ridiculous statement?
after you clarified I see where you’re Coming from but It’s a very beoad statement.. anyways, I enjoy hanging around with women.. I like women.. shit I’m still friends with several ex’s. close friends.. I have no desire to fuck any of them.. don’t need to.. I don’t agree but I understand what you mean now..
John
The thread is about marriage today so of course the statement is related to that. It is my opinion on how I approach my relationships with women in today’s cut throat culture. If things are different in your culture then fine, horses for courses.
The statement is not related to all women, only women whom I interact with on a sexual basis. For example Doris, my 68 year old cleaner, Mabel the checkout girl at the supermarket or Dr Greta the surgeon who did my cock reduction surgery are not eligible for this fucking only club and do indeed provide value to me in their respective roles and the market ensures that they are compensated accordingly.
JOTB made a good point, there is no implication that I want to use my women as pieces of meat but as reciprocal sex partners who indulge the experience as much as I do. We are in the age of equality so why the hell not, right?
There is of course no implication of abuse and as Joel says respect has to be earned, irrespective of gender, courtesy is guaranteed and of course reciprocation expected.
So I stand by my original statement and welcome replies to why this is incorrect.
msybe I’m wrong but it sounds like you’re saying you don’t get close to women you fuck.. is that because of the statement you made earlier about them having 30 partners?
The 30 partner comment was related to the younger generation as an example of how things have drastically changed from the generation of my mother ( as per PF’s comment).
I’m in my mid 50’s, so how kids act today are of no consequence to me (unless I’m having condomed sex with a sugar babe).
I have no interest in marriage or kids at my stage of life, I don’t find much intellectual stimulation from women in general as I am interested in guy stuff. I’m interested in fucking women who I am attracted to and this is where they are of value to me. I don’t need then to cook,clean or pick up my dry cleaning any more than I need my golf buddies to do this.
So, can someone please tell me why at my stage of life, in my situation why this opinion is wrong?
Happy to accept disagreement, but tell me WHY?
Nope sounds good to me.. I think most around here would agree with that..
Are women for fucking only? Of course not. There’s a great number of activities besides sex that can be performed with women to mutual satisfaction.
Does the statement “women are good both for fucking and for activity X” imply that all women are good for fucking and all women are good for X? Of course not! Some are good for one, some for the other, some for both, some for neither!
Does the statement “women are good both for fucking and for X” imply that I should only have one woman in my life and that I should turn to her for all my X needs and for all the fucking? Of course not! Every woman in my life will be evaluated independently for her suitability for everything that’s important to me.
It’s like TMM. TMM conflates a lot of things. A man is expected to marry a woman and to let that one woman into all areas of his life, cooking, laundry, sex, finances, everything. If aliens were told this concept, they would raise whatever goes for eyebrows for them and ask, “but why?”.
So women are good for fucking and for lots of other things, just not necessarily the same women.
LMAO multiply that by at least 3 for accuracy.
I’d bet actual money that most chicks in the US have had sex with right around 100 different people (dudes, chicks, and trans people) by 25.
Is this a bad thing? FUCK NO! Means the chicks are more experienced and there is no stupid bullshit to deal with, rape accusations being one of them. If more and more chicks are “allowed” to be horny and make the same kind of moves on dudes that dudes always historically made, then we’re good.
Most of the chicks I have sex with just rip all their clothes off and jump right on my dick as soon as they are comfortable. In most cases, THEY make the moves and ask if they want to have sex and I don’t have to say anything. Would NEVER be able to have sex this easily if I was in my mid 30s in any other era.
This was straight up inconceivable back in the day, things had to have sucked really bad back then.
Look if women’s groups want chicks to act as horny as dudes, I don’t think that’s a bad thing at ALL. It’ll take a lot of work out of finding chicks to have sex with if they are more and more “allowed” to hit on dudes they like. Just be in that top 10% that chicks want to get with and you’re good. Not that difficult to develop SMV nowadays with all the resources around.
Concur 100%, been there, done that, totally agree. I’m 100% completely congruent here where I encourage men to NEVER marry them (TMM or otherwise) for this exact reason.
No, you are absolutely jaded an emotional, and I seriously don’t give a rip if you recognize that you are in that “anger phase” BD cited way up this thread, but it’s true, and it’s messing up your life because, at a minimum, it’s messing up your frame.
Also try to remember I’m on your side here.
No way. Some, sure. But most chicks? That doesn’t pass a basic understanding of math. Assuming she was sexually active at 15 that’s ten a year for a decade!
Functionally, if that were true every AFC out there would have so much ass thrown at him that SOB could hardly walk. Scarcity mentality would be unheard of. Betaized pussys would stop acting like that shit is rare and to be coveted.
I enjoy your posts and agree with most of the stuff that you write, but this is flat earth batshit nuts.
Pink Firefly has a knack for interpreting casual sexual situations in a way which suggests that the male is heterosexual and the female is a generous asexual who is being used or exploited in some way if you think that’s all she’s good for (even if the woman in question doesn’t disagree and sees you the same way). Whether consciously or unconsciously, that is her default setting on the subject of casual sex.
For her, a serious relationship seems to be a mandatory precondition for the activation of female heterosexuality. She may deny this. BD may protest this. But I don’t care. There are no two ways about it. Pink Firefly is a traditionalist. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Pink Firefly being in an open relationship does NOT mitigate her traditionalism. As BD himself has admitted, his system works on any girl, not just the sexually liberated type. In fact, in his book on open relationships, he claims (and I believe him) that, if you structure your strategy correctly, the only women who will still reject your open relationship offer are women with mental problems or those who are super duper religious. PF is neither. So BD getting a traditionalist girl to go along with this is simply evidence that his system works.
But it is NOT evidence that she isn’t blue pill. On the contrary, anyone with eyes knows that she isn’t fucking other men (please, no one better insult me by challenging that). Anyone with eyes also knows that she would prefer a closed, monogamous relationship or, at worst, that BD only sleep with prostitutes. And anyone with eyes also knows that she is saddened by the fact that BD doesn’t care if she sleeps with other guys and won’t stop her.
And now she’s accusing men here of “objectifying the poor womens” (as uncritically as any morbidly obese college aged blue haired feminist would do) in the form of simply assuming that the casual sex that you advocated implies a lack of desire on the woman’s part – i.e. she is thus “just an inanimate hole to you.”
Again, this is where her mind naturally gravitates to, because she is a traditionalist at heart who wants conservative romance. Oh well. As long as BD is happy.
I am now going to challenge you on this statement, but I won’t do it the politically correct way like BD’s woman did by accusing you of the lesbian-invented “objectification” myth.
Instead, I’ll challenge you the red pill way (Pink Firefly – watch and learn):
Yes. Marriage (and indeed, monogamy in general) is a scam that doesn’t work. Agreed.
Agreed. So far, so good.
Whoa! What do you base that on? Are you suggesting that casual sex is all you have left when you strip away the marriage and the monogamy? You seem to be saying that a woman’s sexual liberation makes her only good for fucking and nothing else. That is implicit slut shaming.
Why would you deny yourself the chance to fall in love with a woman and have babies with her just because she loves sex with multiple men? Why does her loving sex (and marriage and monogamy being a scam) disqualify women for serious (non-monogamous) relationships in your eyes?
Correct. I think 30 partners is, more or less, how many my girlfriend had under her belt when she was 21. Today, she is 25 (26 in 18 days) and her partner count is 106.
But……how does that strengthen your point that women are only good for fucking and nothing else? Why does sexual liberation disqualify her from love or having children? I don’t get it.
You seem to think that sexual liberation is wrong, or somehow not conducive to having a family. This makes you less than sex-positive.
First of all, “trans people” are included in the “dudes, chicks” category. There is no third category in reality. Please, let us not degenerate into PC garbage.
Second of all……yeah, sorry, but no. As much as guys like me would love this to be true, it is sadly not the case. My girlfriend is 25 and she has indeed had sex with over 100 people, but she is very conscious of the fact that she is NOT the norm. Her sexual behavior is definitely considered average (or only slightly above average) within her non-mainstream poly community though.
Her best friend (not to be confused with her lesbian FWB) has fucked 54 guys (age 23). Another female friend of hers (age 20) has done it with 28 guys. Yet another fellow Wiccan of hers (age 24) has fucked 76 men. This is all according to her (I can’t verify it, as I haven’t spoken to these girls on this matter, although I have fucked them all).
But we’re talking here about poly circles and swinger communities. By contrast, within the mainstream world, I’d say that 25-30 guys by age 25 is about right. More than that would suggest that she is a member of some kind of sub-culture (assuming she is only in her 20s).
It’s funny, because I only had sex with 8 girls when I graduated high school at age 18, but most of my fellow 18 year old friends had sex with considerably more than that. I guess it had something to do with the fact that most of my friends from back than lost their virginities at age 12, 13, or 14, whereas I lost mine at 15 and everyone laughed at me for being such a late bloomer.
But, believe it or not, there was slut shaming and some anti-sex attitudes from a decent number of kids, even in my liberal school environment.
Just one example: When I was a naive 14 year old virgin in 8th grade, my two best male friends had sex with each other’s girlfriends on the same bed. The four of them partner switched in the same room. They made the mistake of telling me about it, because I thought it was awesome so I tried talking about it in the school cafeteria during lunch in front of all the other kids.
One of these male friends of mine denied the whole thing, made me look like a moron in front of everyone, grabbed me by my ear, took me to a secluded part of the cafeteria, and ripped me a new asshole. He explained the way a teacher talks to a special ed student that if the other kids were to find out, his girlfriend’s reputation would be ruined and she’d have to change schools or something. This was my first exposure to sex-negativism outside the religious arena.
So yeah, even in the midst of a sexually liberated social circle, the high sex drive people are conscious of the fact that they are the minority.
Like C Lo said, if every woman had as many partners as you claim (and as I wish), there wouldn’t be as many sex starved betas as there are today. Women are definitely way more sexually liberated than society thinks, but, with the exception of a few super sex-positive ones within certain sub-cultures (like my girlfriend), they’re not as extremely sexually liberated as you claim. Otherwise, there would be no need for the secret society.
Agreed. No truly sex-positive woman would ever falsely accuse any man of rape. A woman must be sex-negative in order to possess any type of “rape consciousness” or “rapeochondria.”
Bullshit!
Professional therapists don’t work for you. They work for a system that is employing them to keep you under control by conforming you to that system in the form of minimizing your mental breakdowns.
Therapists are the clean up crew who are charged with dealing with what the CIA calls “broken butterflies.” When a person can’t handle their brainwashing anymore and begins to mentally collapse because of it, he is encouraged to see a professional therapist whose job is to reprogram him and realign him to the system that he temporarily broke from.
Therapists are just tools used by the elites to minimize their own embarrassment. It is no measure of mental health to be well adjusted to a sick society. When a person snaps and becomes a “broken butterfly” the solution isn’t to realign him back to the politically correct blue pill system by seeking therapy. The solution to his mental problems and the restoration of his sanity is the red pill.
This blog is one such suggestion. As are many red pill sites, blogs, and communities; both on the internet and in real life. Things like jealousy, possessiveness, and neediness can be handled by fucking married/taken women, finding a swingers community, joining a poly circle, etc…
But the solution is certainly not to go to a counselor whose only mandate is to feminize, castrate, and turn you back into a good little robot via poison pills and politically correct speeches.
Hell, going to a prostitute just to talk is a decent solution. Many prostitutes will tell you that many of their clients don’t even want sex. They just want to talk for an hour. And the prostitute will be more real with you than any therapist and have an actual two-way conversation; she won’t be limited by PC rules concerning what she is or isn’t allowed to say and “professional boundaries” stifling her genuineness that have been imparted to her via some elite funded medical school.
Just saying.
JOTB
We have crossed swords before and will do so in the future and I now understand why.
We are different generations, ( me mid 50’s, you I think mid 30’s) and as such have different needs. The difference with you and I is that I do not try to force my beliefs on others.
If you want your chick to bang 200 guys in an orgy while delivering triplets into a lemon meringue pie and that makes you both happy, I would say fill your boots sunshine, and fill them to the brim. But your lifestyle may not make everyone happy and that is what makes us individuals. You like roses and I like daisies blah blah blah.
My opinion is what works for ME, having experimented for a lot longer than you. I have no interest in having babies or falling in love as I see love purely as an emotion and mostly temporary. (I’ve been in love before so I think I know it lol).
My question was why the statement is wrong FOR ME?
Again I welcome disagreement and discussion, but tell me why it is wrong FOR ME not necessarily for everyone.
I have a female friend that’s essentially like a sister to me and I’ve known her almost all my life.
She’s very social and has tons of female friends that range from early twenties to late fifties. She likes to hook me up with them, even when I was married haha, to the point of inviting me and a girl over to her house and then “getting called into work” so I can bang the girl on her couch.
She’s been with around 130 men, and is very conscious of the fact she has had way more sex partners than any other woman she knows.
She’s told me before that she thinks the average notch count is more like 5-15 for most her friends.
No way the average is even close to 100
No offense but I’m a stranger… you’re projecting your own issues.. regardless you’re falling sucker to this idea women/society put out there that men that are smart enough to not want anything to do with marriage are just jaded or have issues emotionally.. be a man.. you’re better than that.
Not to mention one simple fact: assuming there are as many women as there are men, the averages for both sexes must exactly match.
(Proof: draw a row of dots, one for each woman. Draw another one for men. Connect pairs of dots if those two had heterosexual sex once or more. Average number of partners for women would then equal the number of connecting lines divided by the number of women, and the same calculation for men would, under the assumption, give the same result.)
I have an ex does that, lol. She’ll call and say “hey come fuck so and so she’s horny, and her BF is cheating”. She’s pretty alpha 1.0 in the way she fucks and blows guys off afterwards.
Awesome.
Yeah, this girl introduced me to my current (and only) FB.
I’ve had quite a few of her married friends too. Their husbands were out of town, deployed, or whatever.
Hell, when I was married she even supplied the condoms lol
“Just don’t make a mess on my couch!”
This gal (my friend) beats herself up mentally quite often over her partner count and tries to “settle down” and “do the right thing” by getting a monogamous live-in with some super nice guy that bores her to tears…then she creates drama until he does something “wrong enough” that she has to break up with him. Usually lasts 6-12 months.
I wish she would just embrace it and be who she is, it kills me to see her beat herself up over it, but she succumbs to pressure from friends and family.
I wish everybody would just lighten the fuck up over sex already (myself included haha)
Thanks for the wisdom JOTB. It clears up quite a bit for me mentally.
But nah, she never cheated that I know of. She would even mate guard herself and tell me about guys she found attractive (partly to create drama, she’s super insecure and liked to see me jealous)
Plus she’s a diagnosed borderline. But on the introverted scale, so instead of loud drama and lot’s of sex partners, she shuts down and ignores the world, gets suicidal, etc.
She’s very open about having virtually no sex drive though, and says sex is disgusting, a necessary evil to make babies and keep a man, and says she could go the rest of her life without sex ever again.
Why I ever married a traditional religious low sex drive virgin, beings I can’t stay monogamous no matter how hard I try, is beyond me and something I’ll probably never understand.
Societal programming is difficult to deal with. When a man or woman doesn’t do what society thinks is right there something wrong with them. Like marriage or settling down. Funny thing is that they’re all miserable while guys like us are out there living the fucking dream.. Shit, I own my own home, pay no child support, have my kid when I want, make 6 figures, Set as far as future retirement, fantastic shape, mentally\physically strong, and get pussy at a moments notice. I’m living the fucking dream. Why in the world would I fuck all that up and settle down or get married? But i’m a man. It’s much much harder for a woman to deal with it.
This has been one hell of a discussion!
I doubt very much that n counts are over 100 for any but a few women. There seems to be a fair bit of female thirst out there. Even though it’s a mantra amongst men in the manosphere, practically speaking, women can’t just go out and get laid, at least every time. There are safety concerns, but also, there are a lot of fat losers out there. So sure, there are middling Instagram women get 1000’s of likes, but it doesn’t follow that average women are getting 100 dicks, even if they would prefer to.
This is exactly why BD’s system works. Outcome independent, non-needy, non-judgemental studs don’t exactly grow on trees. I’m still tight with my VYW unicorn, and she said out of all the men she has dated/fucked, all but 1 has gone head over heels for her…..and he maintains her attraction.
One of the biggest differences between this blog and the rest of the manosphere is a single post BD wrote called “Love Women.” Perhaps I’m alone on this, but the sentiments in that piece are exactly why I’m such a fan of BD. I think it is in me to maintain MLTR‘s & possibly FB‘s but it is not in me to just treat women like warm wet holes. I love women, I love sex, but I do not want a traditional LTR, specifically because this is not the time in my life to make any compromise whatsoever. BD’s system, and for the most part his rhetoric, is as pro-woman as anything in the manosphere.
I have had quite a lot of therapy. In general, I agree with JOTB that for the most part therapists are just keeping you on the blue pilled straight and narrow….although let’s be clear, if you talk about Frame, you’re liable to be painted into a manosphere corner, but if you talk about healthy boundaries, you’re talking their language. A MLTR is nothing more than a LTR with certain boundaries.
One thing I really hate about “man up” type of rhetoric is that not only it doesn’t advance my goals, it doesn’t advance women’s goals either. There is virtually no doubt I’ll fuck another single mother, and maintaining MLTR/FB rules (and not meeting her kids) protects her and her family as much as it protects me. I’m guessing I’m not alone with this.
I appreciate the interaction here on my problem….at the end of the day, it’s a matter of systematic desensitization. The way forward is clear, isolate, escalate, and implement BD’s system.
Averages are only part of the story….spreads matter.
Okay….
The next thing you are are going to tell me is “Alcohol and narcotics are effective tools to avoid negative feelings.”
At best you are masking your insecurity with your given solution.
Three points:
1. Show me anywhere – anywhere at all – where I have suggested marriage (TMM, open, common law, any at all) was a good idea, EVER. EVER EVER. I’ll wait.
2. Totally separate to that, not only are you mad, you are so angry you can’t see it, to the point where you keep implying that somehow me pointing it out somehow makes a straight line to you distorting that into something that I never wrote! That’s impressively angry!
I think I was clear, but I’ll repeat:
3. 1. All legal marriage is bad for men, 2. you are jaded and bitter, you would be happier if you got that handled, 3. you’d realize that marriage wasn’t bad it was EVEN WORSE because 4. you were thinking rationally (where you really believe it) and 5. not reacting emotionally (where you don’t really believe it).
OT Anybody seen this before? He’s all angry and bitter and then -miracle- meets that One Special Girl and everything is great! till it all starts again. It starts because if you can’t be honest with yourself, your mindset is shot from the get go. This poor guy is primed for it.
I hope things work out for you. I remember being exactly where you are once. It wasn’t fun nor did it get me the life I deserved.
I’ve seen this enough times to be hyper vigilant and aware that yes, I am in that angry phase myself, and I’m ensuring I don’t fall into that trap while going through a divorce.
It’d be easy to jump right into another monogamous relationship, because right now ALL women I fuck are better than my ex-wife…because they actually fuck me!
Which is why I’m really diggin’ my current FB. She has NO interest in being monogamous EVER, wants NO “romance”, only wants sex and then basically kicks me out of her house lol.
And it’s the craziest, best sex I’ve ever had…plus she digs threesomes with a guy and another girl, so we are working on that (have another girl we both know picked out and willing, but she’s out of town with family until Jan…never had a threesome before, I’m excited like a kid on Christmas haha)
Amen to that.
Monogamy and TMM can suck it.
FIFY
Yep, I’m beta as fuck. (I did marry her after all)
She’ll probably fuck half the state…if she hasn’t already…now that her beta husband is out of the way.
There’s no way she legitimately dislikes sex (maybe the on and off SSRI’s since age 8? Nah, couldn’t be that)
IIRC, she was strictly FB with BD for a whole year at least. It seems bizarre that a woman with her post history (Disney, fake prudery, demanding respect for women! lol) would agree to have FB relationship in the first place, never mind for that long. Goes to show you how much women tolerate when you have the right frame/mindset. I hear “she/I would never agree to that” all the time. I’ve learned there’s no point in even telling people what women would be willing to do or not do.
Great discussion though. I should save this article, but I probably won’t.
@ Judo, you seem to have a few issues that need to be resolved ASAP. It’s like there is a lot of conflicting thoughts running through your head that are holding you back. eg. “I’m not cut out for traditionalism with women, but don’t want to see women as a warm hole.” lol
It’s not bizarre at all. That’s the entire point. Women with Disney (and so on) like having sex, including FB sex.
Duke, as you just said:
I guess I do have a hard time believing that I can actually pull 2-3 women into MLTR‘s, but it’s long past time to find out.
I will say this: I have hurt women far more by ignoring my own boundaries than any other thing.
Okay guys, great discussion so far.
Soooo,
I seemed to cause a bit of a stir with the women are only good for fucking so maybe it is time to mix it up.
So how many of you guys would have anything at all to do with women if they did not have a vagina?
Would you still be having candlelight dinners and romantic getaways?
If so why?
Yes, you can say you want to fall in love and have children, but the risks to that in modern society are immense. There would be nothing to stop her taking your kids to the other side of the world, and of course you paying for the privilege not to mention the child support issues.
Be interested to hear your strategies for that.
A quickie for JOTB, what if your girlfriend falls pregnant and delivers a baby that is:-
1. Obviously not biologically your kid (racially diverse)?
2. Not your kid, confirmed through DNA testing?
Do you still continue your relationship and if so on what basis?
1. Bring the kid up as your own (even if the kid is black / asian mixed race), including support?
2. Your girlfriend brings the kid up on her own but you maintain the “love/ sex” relationship?
3. Bail, as life of a cuck ain’t for you and lemon meringue pie ain’t all that it is cracked up to be?
4. You can trust her 100%, and such a thing would never happen?
Anyone know where you can buy them really big boxes of popcorn, you know the ones the size of a U-Haul truck?
Seriously just stop. I divorced my wife.. She begged and pleaded for me not to divorce her. I enjoyed my marriage until she got addicted to prescription meds and I had to divorce her. Then after the pain of the divorce set in I agreed to prolong the divorce so my insurance would pay for her rehab. But then I divorced her anyways because I was done being married and I’m a whore. I like a lot of pussy. I didn’t get screwed in the marriage or divorce. I pay no child support, divorce cost only 3k, kept my nice house in burbs with massive equity, kept my huge ass retirement fund, and the kid still lives with me. Better yet me and the ex-wife are still friends. I can’t blame her for a idiot dr. Shit, I’ve fucked her multiple times after the divorce. Why not? I got no problem with her. She’s like family. We were married for like 15 years. She had a problem and got it fixed. The results of my divorce were like hitting the lotto for a man. Now I everything a man could want. I make over 6 figures, have massive confidence, OI, good physical and emotional health, and get laid whenever I want. When I go out with a woman the only question she has is not if she’s sleeping with me it’s how the fuck does she keep sleeping with me. So I don’t have a emotional issues but I am a giant over confident, cocky, huge ass, fucking Dick… I’ll own that.
I understand why Pink Firefly responded the way she did to my post. She probably was feeling a little alone that night with BD gone and then found BD’s liquor cabinet, read all the posts talking about how stupid marriage is and how a bad deal it is for men and responded like a chick (come back PF!!). Because with a chick it all come back to emotions. Almost every choice they make comes down to how they feel. So when a man presents a logical argument about say not getting married, in their mind it’s because of your feelings you made that choice, not logic or that marriage simply sucks. You just must be”emotional” or “jaded”. So I understand why Pink Firefly acted like a chick and went right to talking about my feelings but I’m not sure why any man would keep ranting on and obsessing about my feelings. It’s not how men act. you keep on with that I’m just going to have to ignore you brother.
I may be crazy but I thought one reason (I never looked into) especially that gays wanted to marry was for the following:
Medical reasons and tax reasons
Maybe both of those are insane and not worth the risk, but plausible reasons. The state may actually confer positive benefits to married people. Not saying that they should, but they do.
Not maybe.
I fully supported gay marriage when it was being debated.
Why should just be the straight guys that suffer?
Why do some men here believe that this blog is somehow “values-neutral?” It’s not. What is meant by me “forcing my beliefs” anyway? Do I break in to my monogamous neighbor’s house and force him to cheat on his wife? Do I laugh at random people on the street or disrespect my acquaintances to their faces for not living my lifestyle?
The only relevant question here is “what is appropriate for the venue you find yourself in?”
You want to be a Muslim or a Christian who thinks every woman who has sex outside of marriage is a disgusting whore? I can’t stop you. But you don’t belong on this blog.
You are not in a completely values neutral venue. What is appropriate for me to say here wouldn’t be appropriate for me to say if I were on a religious website. And certain things are also inappropriate to say here because they violate the values of this blog. BD may allow them to be said here for discussion purposes and that’s fine. But don’t be shocked when someone like me calls you out for them.
Is this a British expression?
Is this another British expression? Your foreign sayings are as amusing as they are unintelligible. Say “bee in your bonnet” one more time, please! It will amuse me!
Because you implied that female sexual liberation and sex-positivism are the reasons why women are only good for fucking. Here are your three propositions:
Proposition I:
Proposition II:
Proposition III:
You heavily imply that your third proposition is the result of the first two. In that case, what you are saying is that women being sexually liberated (your first two propositions) is precisely the reason why you have reduced them to being just good for fucking. In other words, them having sex with multiple partners disqualifies them in your eyes for anything beyond sex.
Again, the only way you can have this opinion is if you think sex-positivism is not conducive to having a family and reduces a woman to nothing more than casual sex material (which is implicit slut shaming, and therefore, sex-negative). It’s as if she needs to be a prude to deserve love.
If this is what you believe, then I ask you: What are you doing in a sex-positive venue?
If this is not what you believe (that is, you never meant to link your first two propositions to your third one), than why did you give us your first two at all?
Pink Firefly – See? This is how you challenge him in a sex-positive manner without talking politically correct nonsense about “objectification” and accusing him of “using women” as if they’re “asexual holes.”
This is a non-sequitur. Of course, we all agree that all of our interactions with women MUST begin with sex. Without sex, there is nothing.
The only point of disagreement is that the beginning is also the end.
I don’t even do that with the sex included. I’m not some beta who eats by candlelight or indulges in romantic anything.
Not if you pick a sex-positive woman who loves men and male energy and you are legally experienced enough (or consult someone who is) to know what you’re doing and exactly how to play it.
Well, maybe that’s the reality in Britain, but here in America, the biological father has legal rights and legal access to his own child if he fights for them in family court, unless the woman gets the judge to declare him an unfit parent.
With the right attorney, the man can win joint custody and, in such a situation, it is illegal for the woman to “move to the other side of the planet” with his baby. Wow, Europe must really be a horrible place for fathers!
First of all, why did you separate those into two questions? What does race have anything to do with anything? I would never raise, or have anything to do with, a child who isn’t biologically mine, regardless of whether he or she is the same race as me.
So why the two separate questions, as if they are materially different?
Second of all, my girlfriend is Jewish (albeit religiously Wiccan), which makes her Asian (Israel isn’t exactly in Europe). Although she passes for white, she does look like she has a permanent sun tan. Lots of people mistake her for Hispanic.
By contrast, I am pure white (of European descent). So if her and I have a baby together, it will, by definition, be a “racially diverse” child. What the fuck are you getting at?
What do you mean by “even if the kid is black/Asian/mixed race?” What the fuck are you implying here? Are you suggesting that a different race or skin color would make me want to raise a kid less? What is the basis for this rather insulting implication from you?
I’m a culturalist, not a racist! Why would you think otherwise?
No, I wouldn’t raise the child as my own if he’s not biologically mine. I want nothing to do with the child if I didn’t create him. But this has nothing to do with race! Why the fuck are we even talking about race? Where did this crap come from?
Why on her own? Here in America, the biological father has rights and responsibilities. She would bring up the kid with him. I doubt he would tolerate another man raising his child.
Possibly, yes. Although I’m skeptical if I could keep dating her if she has another man’s kid. I wouldn’t tolerate having any contact with the kid whatsoever and I doubt that would be possible if her and I continued being a serious couple. The kid would have to live with the bio dad and she would have to only see him three days out of the week, during which I could make myself scarce by fucking other women.
In all likelihood, it wouldn’t work. I’d probably have to downgrade her to friend with benefits or fuck buddy, which would be painful as fuck for me.
Barring that, the burden would be on her to raise the kid with the bio dad and make sure I never see the kid, while we maintain our serious relationship. I’d wish her luck on that one.
Ok, now I’m thinking that this isn’t a British expression, but you just have a fetish for pies.
Unless I decide that downgrading her to FB or FWB is too painful after all that we have felt for one another, I wouldn’t bail. We might still be able to have sex (albeit casual) while she raises the kid with his father. Whether the father would become her new boyfriend or not is an open question, but either way, my girl doesn’t do monogamy, so sex with me would still be on the table.
I trust her to not allow such a thing to happen deliberately. Through carelessness or negligence, perhaps. But she has been super good and super responsible with the birth control so far. And she has fucked 106 guys and, unless I’m mistaken, only got pregnant twice (once at 13 and the second time at 15) before she even met me, followed by two abortions. So, I think she has learned her lessons well, since the majority of her men fucked her after age 15.
Because the goal should be to end suffering, not expand it.
The government has no place in people’s bedrooms. Expanding the State’s power and influence over people’s private sex lives to new groups and combinations of people means we are moving in the wrong direction.
Next, poly marriage will be demanded in the name of bisexual rights because a woman shouldn’t have to choose whether to marry her boyfriend or her girlfriend. She’ll say, “the state is cruel and inhumane for demanding I cut myself in half. This is just how I was born.”
Complete madness! How about we just abolish marriage and tell the government to go fuck itself? Keep your superstitions and need for external validation in front of an audience away from my tax dollars.
Private contracts and Limited Liability Family (LLF) agreements are the way to go.
Which is precisely why marriage, in my opinion, is Unconstitutional, as it violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment in the form of the government discriminating against asexuals based on their private sex lives, or lack thereof.
Surely giving people different government perks based on their sexual lifestyles wouldn’t withstand 14th Amendment scrutiny, if only the Supreme Court were forced to confront the question directly.
The Court has already stated that the 14th Amendment does not allow the government to treat anyone differently based on their genetic characteristics. As “sexual orientation” is a genetic characteristic, the asexuals may actually do our dirty work for us and abolish the marriage institution. I can dream.
JOTB
So where did I say or imply the above? My view is I care not one iota what a women does either inside or outside of marriage. Why would I?
So again another statement which is factually incorrect and as I am neither Muslim or Christian, I therefore do belong on this blog? (assuming that you realise that this is not YOUR blog and that the comments section is open…. sometimes I do wonder lol).
Shocked? Called me out? lol. You need to seriously work on your call out skills bro. Almost as pathetic as your “British expression” comment, not quite but almost.
Well in that case I would question your perception skills. I ask again, what other value does a woman that I am sexually involved with have apart from me fucking her? I have already stated that I have no interest in temporary “love” or children.
In the interest of debate, at least make an attempt at answering the question this time. If you don’t I will assume that you can’t.
See Jack this is what you do. ANYTHING, that goes even slightly against your ideology of your woman being sexually liberated and fucking half of America while screaming I love you babe, thank you so much for this amazing gift, must be argued against.
I will explain this slowly and simply and as I said your perception skills of my “implication” have not been great to this point.
I DON’T CARE!
I don’t care what you and your woman do, who you do with or how often you do it. It does not even enter my reality and as such it is totally irrelevant. I have no opinion on it.
Explain to me again, WHY would I care about what some dude on the internet on the other side of the planet does or does not do? Please answer that question.
I care not how sexually liberated women are or are not, how many dudes they are fucking, whether they prefer carrots or cucumbers up their asses during their orgies, I care only if they pass the boner test and will fuck me into oblivion.
So for the avoidance of doubt, if a women is providing me non sexual value… waitress in a restaurant, a nurse in the hospital, a taxi driver taking me home, a bricklayer building a wall for me etc etc, then I will be polite and courteous to all of these people. If a women is fucking me then her value is sexual to me whether she is “sexually liberated” or a low cock count young lady just out of finishing school.
I do not care so why do you continually imply that I do?
Jack, I don’t personally know anyone who is more “sex positive” than me. We live in an age of equality and I think that any woman should do exactly as she pleases, with who ever she wants, whenever she wants. How you would think I would shame someone for this is laughable. Perhaps you could clarify where I have “slut shamed”? Please again answer this, otherwise I will assume that you can’t.
You are younger and much less experienced than me and I’ve been where you are.
But this idea of a woman “loving” you that is so different from “monogamous love” because you allow and encourage her to fuck who she wants? There is no “love” between a man and a woman as many men who are ass raped, used and discarded will testify to. Perhaps you will be one of the lucky ones?
Well, I will let time be the adjudicator on that one.
These are societal observations not “propositions”. I can observe societal and cultural changes and adapt my strategy to how I deal with them. I do not generally hold strong opinions on things that I do not control.
That’s your “challenge” is it?
I’m off to the hospital to get my wounds dressed lol.
JOTB
Jack, unlike you, I am a realist. This cultural collapse will continue despite what you think or do.
So I’m not sure if you are asking WHY I separated these into two questions or are you implying that I should not have?
Obviously it is a free forum so I will assume that you asked WHY.
First of all this is a personal question to you, not a general question to the forum. I’m sure that you understand the difference between these two questions. Are you saying that I should not ask you a question because it may have a racial overtone? If so you need to explain why this would be more important than another question which may have a different “sensitive” overtone? Are you suggesting that I cannot ask you questions which may or may not be sensitive to you personally even though I do not know what your personal situation/opinion is?
The reason that I put this question to you personally is that I’m genuinely interested in your mindset and I will address your responses below.
In the meantime, let’s use a hypothetical situation to demonstrate why I split the paternity issue into two separate parts.
1. Bob and Mary, a nice suburban white couple find out that they are expecting their first child and are very excited about this. Bob and Mary are monogamous (well Bob thought so). Unbeknown to Bob, when Mary went to Vegas with the girls a few months prior, as a dare, sexually liberated Mary was gang- banged by three male strippers. One white, one black and one Chinese. Bob is expecting a white child that looks like him as his biological urge is that his paternity is guaranteed.
Mary was shitfaced (drunk and off her face with drugs), that fateful night of the gang bang and everything is a bit blurry and although she had screaming orgasms, she could not recall who fuck what. Also she lifts her nightgown up every Sunday afternoon after church and gives Bob his weekly portion of “love” so Bob must be the father.
So, fast forward and a bouncing baby boy is born and as Bob and Mary are white they assume that as the newborn is white that the baby is Bob’s. However Bob feels that the baby does not resemble him and orders an online DNA test. The test comes back negative that Bob is 99% NOT the father. Bob does not want to lose face in the local church so he brings the baby up as his own and he and Mary live happily ever after. Or Bob decides fuck this for a game of cards, I’m nobody’s cuck, and fucks off.
Bob has a choice.
Alternatively, the baby is born and is obviously mixed race. Bob cannot face the elders at the local church as they will know that the baby is not his so he does not want to be the cuck and fucks off. Or he and Mary have the discussion, Bob is super cucked and they move to another part of the country where they are not know. It is still obvious to everyone that Bob is not the father and as the kid gets older it will be obvious to him too.
Bob can still make the choice but he will not have the urge to have his own biological urge satisfied.
The story of Bob and Mary is why I posed that question. Racial difference is one obvious indicator that the baby was not Bob’s and as guaranteed paternity is a strong biological imperative, surely you can see the importance?
Feeling kinda stooopid for asking that question now? Don’t worry, unlike you I like to answer questions.
See the story of Bob and Mary above.
As your woman has so many sexual partners how would she be able to ascertain who the father was. What if the father is not in the financial position to help raise the kid or is in his own relationship with someone else. How would that work? What is he has no interest in the child, would your now FB bring the kid up as a single parent? What about her sexually liberated lifestyle, is that still going on? If so on what basis?
What! Even though you “love” her?
This my friend is why women are only for fucking.
Good luck young Jedi, I’m sure that “your girl” will be different.
Ten a year from 15-25 isn’t a lot. Especially in this day and age where chicks are encouraged to hunt just as hard as most dudes. Also keep in mind I’m including all genders/sexes/whatever into this.
I’m also counting fooling around and NOT having intercourse. Forgot to include that, whoops.
They DO have chicks throwing themselves at them, but a lot o AFCs and incels are just too socially stupid and outcome dependent to do anything about it. This is especially true for people who go to college. My incel phase was during college, and I was too scared and outcome dependent to make moves on the dozens of hundreds of chicks who were making themselves available to me.
Oh yeah, This DOESN’T include the dozens of psychotically horny overweight 33+ single moms online who just want sex with a guy who isn’t as obese as their ex-husbands (or current husbands) were. I’ll never forget having sex with a chick who was in an open marriage who said I weighed a lot less than her husband. And I’m pretty overweight. Crazy.
But! Just because chicks are “encouraged” to hunt for guys doesn’t mean they are willing to do all the work for guys. In most cases it is still up to the dudes to make the moves and progress to sex. This is why its possible for chicks to still get with 10 different dudes a year for 15 years. All it takes is for a dude to make a move then it’s on.
But most men still avoid talking about sex and stuff cuz the sex-negative forces (religious people, sex-negative feminists, sex-negative manosphere groups like incels) that dictate their actions tell them its “creepy.” Meanwhile I’m sitting here overhearing 18-19 year old college freshmen chicks bitch about small (AND big) dicks, showing pics of the toys they use on their phones to each other and giggling about it. But yeah, don’t talk about sex with them, its “creepy!” Right. Seems legit.
Chicks LIKE sex as much as dudes and crave it as much as dudes, peeps. Time to get over it.
Did it come across that way? I didn’t mean for it to come across that way. All in all, its just an observation really. And it isn’t like I’m slut shaming or anything, I want this observation to be accurate. I WANT chicks to have more sex this way they will be less afraid of it and we’ll be able to draw clearer distinctions between legit sex and sex assault.
It was mainly to stick it to the normies. Épater la bourgeoisie.
You have a very autistic interpretation of what I said. I wasn’t accusing you of being a Muslim or Christian. Do you understand analogies? I was making a larger point that this blog isn’t values neutral, which gives the lie to your position that anyone belongs here regardless of what they believe.
In my opinion, you don’t belong here because you’re sex-negative.
You think I’m acting like I own the place? Oh trust me, I am painfully aware that I don’t own the place. If I did, you would be banned a long time ago and I’d properly rip you apart without BD threatening to ban me if I cross the line.
What would you consider to be a proper call out?
No, that is what you said. You said women are only good for fucking because you don’t like how sexually liberated they are. And you said it again below, as I shall quote momentarily.
How about companionship or friendship in addition to the sex?
Stop right there.
You claim that you are sex-positive. And yet, with sneering contempt, you described sexually enlightened women as “fucking half of America while screaming I love you babe.”
See Sailormack, here’s the thing: I have known tons of sex-positive people in my life! Tons! And I’ve fucked even more. And I have NEVER heard a single sex-positive person describe the lifestyle with such disrespectful jeering and snarky exaggerations!
I know how sex-positive people speak and you are, most definitely, not one of them! You have nothing but pure contempt for women like my girlfriend precisely because of her lifestyle. It couldn’t be more obvious from your tone and the manner you use to describe it.
It really is sickening to read on a sex-positive blog. Just understand that you are fooling no one!
Huh?
If you truly didn’t care, you wouldn’t describe the lifestyle with sneering contempt. You would be kicked out of any sex-positive community or gathering in the world if you’d talk like that.
You keep referencing the internet with contemptuous and old fashioned elitist smugness, as if this conversation is less relevant just because we’re not talking face to face.
I didn’t say you should care about me specifically. I said that should be more sex-positive in general on a sex-positive blog.
Right, but you’re not interested in children or a family precisely because they’re not loyal virgins like your grandmother was. That’s what makes you sex-negative.
Because of your plain words, as I will demonstrate in my next post.
Ha ha ha! With your sneering contemptuous description of the lifestyle? Please, stop with this denial. It’s embarrassing.
Okay, answer this: If this were the 1950s and women were loyal virgins until marriage (like your grandparents), would you then consider marriage and a family?
If so, than you admit that women are only good for fucking because you think they’re sexual liberation disqualifies them from anything else, which is rather cruel and disapproving on your part..
Love is temporary like all emotions. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or has never existed in the first place just because a guy got ass raped in court.
Aha! So you are adapting to women being sexually liberated precisely by disqualifying them from being serious relationship or mother material because you think those roles aren’t compatible.
You are, therefore, a slut shamer, as you think that women should be cut off from anything serious if they dare to love sex because they’re aren’t like your grandmother. It’s as plain as day, regardless of your constant denial.
What would be your example of a respectable challenge on a blog where the owner threatens to ban me if I speak the way I really want to?
I’m saying that I’m baffled as to why you think race is relevant to this conversation.
This has nothing to do with “sensitivity.” It has to do with the non-sequitur of race.
See above. Re: Sensitivity.
Ah, got it. So you want to know if I’d be too embarrassed to raise a mixed race baby because of what others would think about it obviously not being mine.
Ok, no. I wouldn’t be any more embarrassed by raising a baby that is obviously not mine than I would raising a baby that is only secretly not mine. Both propositions are equally repugnant to me!
No. Why would I feel stupid for merely asking a question?
By narrowing down the men based on the date of the pregnancy. There are ways, dude.
Then that’s his problem that can be worked out between them.
Same difference.
I don’t know and I don’t care. It would have nothing to do with me. I merely suggested that she wouldn’t be a single mother with 100 percent probability, that’s all.
Again, I don’t care. That would be up to her. Although, in order to maintain our serious OLTR relationship, I would encourage her to give the baby up for adoption if the father isn’t interested in it.
Her and I have talked about this before. When we have children, we’d obviously have to limit our extracurricular activities and put the child’s needs first. That’s true of all parents. Eventually our time would be gradually given back to us as the child gets older. But we certainly wouldn’t be monogamous. We already have a woman in our poly circle whom we’re both screwing who said she’s volunteer as a nanny.
There we go!!!! So you admit that women are only good for fucking because, in your opinion, sexual liberation disqualifies them from anything else due to being too unstable in your eyes.
That’s what I’m getting at. You take a dim view of sex-positivism and it doesn’t even occur to you to pick a woman who is on birth control and sexually responsible like mine. You just throw the baby out with the bathwater in the name of safety. I understand that your testosterone is less than mine at age 50, but damn!
Again, you admit that sex-positive women are too unstable for serious relationships because “too many things can go wrong.”
But you wouldn’t feel this way if they were all loyal virgins until marriage who would never sleep with another man, like your grandmother.
I rest my case! You are sex-negative! You view the sex-positive lifestyle mostly with contempt even though you don’t care enough about the people in it to stop them.
But let me remind you that this is a sex-positive blog.
Therefore, let’s not even discuss good ideas.
I always remind myself to never be a nihilistic defeatist like you, no matter how old I get.
Joelsuf, in all seriousness, what you are saying is dangerous.
The cubicle dwelling beta nerd would be shocked to hear your view of women and, upon hearing it, would do something stupid, get accused of sexual harassment, and fired from his job.
No dude, women are not throwing themselves at him. If it looks like they are, and he dares to do anything about it, he stands to lose his entire career and end up homeless. Please stop encouraging him with these fantasies.
Not all women are high sex drive or sexually red pilled like my girlfriend and the types of women I sleep with. If they were, no one would be fired or metoo’d and there would be no need for the secret society.
I sleep with these types of women and then I stand in awe at the contrast between them and the typical blue pill woman who is just itching to get Bob fired for “sexual misconduct” if he makes a move because you convince him that he should.
Jack
And here I was waiting patiently for the big reply …..and 5 days later ….pffffttt…. that one went down like a damp squid lol.
Oh Jack, I know very well what you were attempting to imply, but the problem is you are just not very good at it.
I don’t particularly give a fuck about your opinion, again why would I?
Perhaps you could make at least an attempt at answering that, probably not though, eh?
I doubt you have the temperament to run a lemonade stand, never mind a blog. But apparently, we are awaiting the big launch of your toe dip into the world of red pill blogging soon. Is it January? Can’t wait to see how that goes.
“Rip you apart lol.
Oh I get it now, you’re one of these “I need to go and teach someone on the internet a lesson” chumps? Meanwhile everyone is laughing at you losing your shit over an anonymous online discussion.
Bring it on cupcake, but stay offline during your period.
Really? How old are you bro, 17? Is this really the best you can do?
No I said women TO ME are only good for fucking and I DON’T CARE how sexually liberated they are or are not.
I.
DON’T
CARE
Oh and did I mention, I don’t care and can you answer the previous question of WHY SHOULD I CARE?
I much prefer male companionship and friendship, I have already explained this previously. Do you actually read what I write or just lose your shit because I have a different opinion and you need to “set me straight”?
Ok headmistress, I will stop but only if you ask nicely.
Jack, are you one of theses “labelist” types who like to give people a label and package them into a nice wee box? You seem to have this obsession of whether I am sex-positive or sex negative and if in your opinion the only way I should be allowed to stay on this blog is that I am sex-positive.
So you have now adopted the official role of the sex-positive police?
Do you realise how retarded that sounds?
This sex-positive and sex-negative stuff is nonsense. I like sex with attractive women which I get when I need it. I care not about how sexually liberated or non liberated they are. If that makes me sex-negative in your eyes then your comprehension and cognitive skills are not as developed as you night have hoped. But if that makes you happy, I would say squeeze your titties mamma.
Sneering contempt lol.
Jack I have asked you time and time again. Why would you think that I would care about anyone else’s sex life?
I notice that you can’t quite seem to answer that question, no matter how many times I ask.
Strange that, innit?
What, you really don’t know the different between an anonymous verbal exchange on the internet and a face to face discussion. I doubt very much that you speak in person the way you attempt to on this blog and if you do I’m sure there would be many physical altercations as the average dude would just throw down while you are trying to win an argument with this “teach him a lesson” attitude you have.
Why should I care what you think?
Why would I stop when I’m having so much fun watching you lose your shit because you mistakenly think that I give a fuck about about you and your sexually liberated young lady of the highest esteem and sex-positivity.
Unlike you, I like answering questions. I find it more interesting that what you do, so I will answer the question so please pay attention.
Whether it is the 1950’s, 1820’s or caveman times, I have no interest in marrying anyone. Why any man would marry at all is beyond me. Having known so may men who have their asses handed to them in divorce courts, if you marry today, you get deserve everything you get.
Now if I the culture was completely different where everyone was married at 21 and the woman was guaranteed to be a virgin, guaranteed to be faithful, divorce was illegal and the paternity was guaranteed then there would be more likelihood that marriage was the cultural thing to do, then of course there is a higher chance that the majority of men would be married, including me (if I was a young man).
That is different from today, where I am mid 50’s, financially independent, debt free and in perfect health. I have full and varied sex life so why would I want to get married and restrict my life, not to mention the huge financial risks?
Further, I do not think the sexual liberation status of anyone, male or female should disqualify them for anything.
Are you arguing with yourself here?
Surely you are not advocating betting your financial future on a woman’s temporary emotions?
Good luck with that!
JOTB: Doctor, there’s this dude from the UK, he’s on the internet on an anonymous blogging forum, and I’m really obsessed about his sex-positivity denial. It’s keeping me awake at night, I’m spending so much of my time thinking about how I can get him to admit his sex-negativity but he just doesn’t seem to care about this kind of stuff?
What the hell do I do, Doc?
Shrink to sex-positive dudes on the internet: Get a life Jack?
Why you asking me? I get a lot more joy ripping the piss out of you and watching you lose your shit about something I don’t give a fuck about.
That’s money, right there lol.
Jack
You should discuss as many ideas as you want. It is my opinion that to discuss things that you want to change but have no control over and expect your discussion to make any difference then you are wasting your life energy.
If you place no value on this energy then who am I to say that you are wrong.
Jack
I have already explained that race would be one way of it being obvious that the kid was not yours. Another would be if you had a vasectomy and buttercup came in and broke the great news to you. Both of these scenarios prove that you have been cucked but only one is obvious to the outside world. If you don’t care about this then that’s fine but you say in another part of the post that you would not bring up another man’s kid but then struggle to find the relevance of something that would disprove paternity.
Strange.
Hallelujah, Jack is no cuck lol.
Err, because you keep asking the same stoopid questions, and despite answering these questions, you keep asking again somehow thinking that the answer will magically change the more you ask.
Yawn!!!
Sex-positive shmositive, seriously why this obsession? Do you consider this healthy?
And yes testosterone levels due drop with age, a biological fact but I believe that this can be maximised with proper diet, exercise including weight training and TRT.
Jack, if it makes you feel better and it is really important to you I will admit that I am totally sex-negative and think anyone having sex in any form is disgusting. I understand that you are a special snowflake and hope that I have not offended you or your sexually liberated goddess of wonderfulness.
Hope you are feeling better soon poppet x.
Alpha widow and the cock carousel are base principles of male-female relations theory for, at least: Heartiste, Tomassi, Roosh, Stefan Moulineux.
It’s serious, if objectionable, concepts.
James Hillman wrote they have “aesthetical and sensual” value, or use. Was he troubled by their sexual liberation? Doubt it. He was being realistic.
If you actually believe this, you REALLY need to watch this video.
Actually, everyone here needs to watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrtqBpgPjiw&t=0s
Jack
From 48 Laws of Power.
Law 38: Think as you like, but behave like others. If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior.
Your video is about conformity and as 80% of the population would fall into low to medium intelligence, the chance of any revolution or real change is low.
Add to this the strong financial controls (student debt, mortgages, taxes, inflation etc), media controls and divide and conquer tactics and you really think people are going to change anything?
People are losing their shit over Trump in the US (who has no real control or ability to do anything as the system is set up that way), and this should tell you everything you need to know about the average person and what they will or won’t do.
Those that operate outside of the box, can choose to behave as others while they plan their escape from the collapse.
If you want to stay and “save” it, it’s your time, it’s your choice, it’s your life.