Jack (one of two Jacks who comment here) posed an interesting question in the comments on a recent post:
You recommend a 2 date model whereas most PUAs recommend a one date model. Chase Amante, who I read regularly, argues that every date past the 1st diminishes your chances dramatically. But here’s the thing, I’m 42 and my skills are not that great (I’m learning). But I’ve noticed that for women over 32 it is very hard to get 1st date sex. Hell, getting it by the third date is difficult.

-By Caleb Jones

Long time readers know how much I’ve talked about women over age 33. I’m not going to discuss that today because I’ve done that to death (take a look at the archives of this blog if you’re interested in that topic).

Instead, today I’m going to discuss a completely different, but equally controversial topic. One I am no stranger to. And that is, whether or not to go for sex on the first date or the second date. I discuss this topic in great detail in my ebooks, so I’ll just summarize the arguments pro-first-date-lay vs. pro-second-date-lay. As most of you already know, I endorse a very specific type of two-date model while most traditional seduction guys endorse a one-date model.

Chase Amante, who is a great guy by the way and you should read his stuff, is absolutely correct. Every date after the first date reduces the odds of a woman ever sleeping with you. This is why going the AFC route, which is also the women-over-33 route, which is waiting many dates before you have sex, is a terrible, terrible idea. I don’t care how hot she is, how smart she is, how wonderful she is, or how much it appears she likes you. Don’t do it.

Not only does it reduce the odds of a lay dramatically, it also starts the relationship off on the completely wrong foot if you do get laid after three or five or seven dates or whatever. You have now started the entire relationship off on her terms, and you’re in for rules, demands, and drama in short order. And it will be your fault.

Sexual men who don’t like drama, true Alpha Males, have sex with women fast.

First Date ASD

There’s one caveat to this. Women have massive, and I mean massive Societal Programming ASD that says “sex on the first date makes me slut”. Of course this belief is silly and completely inaccurate, but that’s what women believe. You can thank religion, modern feminism, and male slut shamers for installing that silly belief in women. (Just to be clear, I’m not talking about traditional feminism. That actually encouraged women to be sexually free and have sex whenever they wanted. I’m talking about its bastardized modern version.)

Having sex with a condom on a first date doesn’t make a woman a slut any more than it makes a man a slut.

The sad reality is that if you routinely try to have sex with women on the first date, you’re going to have to put in the extra time and effort to overcome this first-date ASD. If you talk to a lot of guys who often get laid on first dates, you will clearly see that the vast majority of first date lays require LONG first dates. (Read some SNL lay reports on forums and you’ll see the same pattern.) Four, five, six, even seven hours or longer is usually required, the sex often happening late in the evening, as in well past midnight. Are there exceptions to the rule where guys get laid on first dates really fast? Of course. But those are the exceptions (in most cases).

If you simply wait until the second date, 90% of this bullshit first date ASD instantly vanishes. The reason my average, grand total, meet-to-lay times these days is three hours or less is because I have a very fast, very inexpensive (often free) first date that lasts under one hour, then I push hard for sex on the second date. On many second dates I’m having sex within 30 minutes, with minimal ASD and minimal resistance. That’s a 90 minute meet-to-lay. Because in her irrational feminine brain, it’s “not the first date” any more, so it’s “okay”. Dumb, I agree, but it works. I’ve been doing this successfully for many years now.

The Older, The More ASD

The second challenge is, as Jack has discovered, and as I state in my definition of ASD in my glossary, ASD is a direct result of Societal Programming, and the older you are the more time society has had to program you. That means that generally speaking, the older a woman is, the harder it is to lay her on the first date. (Yes, yes, I know there are unusual exceptions to this rule. Please don’t bother to point them out to me. As always, the exceptions prove the rule.) This childish “sex on the first date makes me a slut” thing is much more powerful in a 35 year-old woman than it is an a 25 year-old woman, and the 25 year-old has it much more than an 18 year-old.
I’m not saying I never do first date lays myself. Sometimes they do happen; they’re just not my norm nor my goal. The last first date lay I had was earlier this year, but guess what? She was 19. She had 16 years less Societal Programming than a 35 year-old woman has, so sex on the first date (I used a condom of course) was no big deal. I promise you that in 16 years when she’s 35, when a man tries to fuck her on a first date, even one she is very attracted to, she’ll react with shock and revulsion, and may even feel insulted. He won’t get anywhere with her. She’s likely to dump him on the spot because he’s not a “gentleman”.

Society will have done its evil work. Thanks, slut shamers!

Responses To A One-Date Model

Traditional seduction community guys say that “waiting” to fuck a girl until the second date (or third date or fourth date or whatever) is stupid and AFCish. A real man with game fucks a girl on the first date, not the second.

They are right…assuming that guy “waiting” past the first date is doing it in the traditional AFC manner.

Many years ago when I started with this stuff, I would wait three dates before trying to have sex. I would have a first date that was a long, fancy dinner date. Then I’d have a second date, which was another long, fancy dinner date. Then I had the third date, which was, you guessed it, another long, fancy fucking dinner date. Then, finally, I would push for sex at the end of that date.

Oh, those women LOVED dating me! Free fancy dinners! Hours and hours of attention from a man! Not needing to violate their ASD by having sex! They loved it!

But do you think I got laid? NO.

Other than the one-out-of-ten exceptions to the rule, I got no sex. For months I ended up wasting hundreds of dollars and scores of man hours wasting my time on first, second, and third dates that went absolutely nowhere.

God damn, it was brutal. I still have heart palpitations from that time in my life. Ugh.

Most of you know the rest of the story. After years of experimenting with different systems, mostly with online dating, I got my meet-to-lay times and money-spent numbers lower and lower. Today it’s under three hours and the grand total cost every time I do it is zero to about $14. All with a two-date model. One cheap or free under-60-minute first date, then a second “date” where she comes to my place and I escalate hard to sex. I also stopped cold approaching any women over age 33 several years ago, further boosting my results.

(Don’t misunderstand me. I still date women over 33 occasionally because there are indeed some advantages to dating older women. It’s just that I don’t approach any over-33 woman sexually unless she already knows me first. If she’s an over-33 who is a complete stranger, like on an online dating site, then I’ll have to deal with her stupid ASD. No thanks.)

So use a two date model, just make sure it’s the Blackdragon version of a two date system (that I describe in detail in this ebook), not the AFC “repeatedly-take-them-out-to-dinner-and-cross-your-fingers” model that the pickup artist guys often (correctly) rail against.

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