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Frequently Asked Dating / Relationship Questions and Objections
What follows are some of the the most common questions and objections I get regarding my dating and relationship advice. These are different from objections people use to defend monogamy, which I already addressed right here.
-By Caleb Jones
1. "You advise to only see a woman once a week. That's insane! How can I possibly have a serious or meaningful relationship by only seeing someone once a week?"
You're misunderstanding my advice. There are three types of nonmonogamous relationships: FB, MLTR, and OLTR. The once-a-week rule only applies to FBs and MLTRs.
If you choose to make one special gal your OLTR, which is the nonmonogamous equivalent of girlfriend or wife, then you are more than welcome to see her more than once a week if you wish.
However! You need to acknowledge the reality that no matter how good you are, if you start seeing a woman more than once a week, the odds of receiving drama and betaization from her launch upwards, no matter how sweet or wonderful she is. This means that you should only consider a more-than-once-a-week OLTR if your frame and relationship game is 100% rock solid. Otherwise, keep her at the MLTR level until you improve your relationship skills and outcome independence.
Also, "once a week" does not mean "see her for one brief visit a week". That "once" can be an entire day or longer. "Once a week" can mean that she comes over on a Tuesday evening, spends two nights with you, leaves on Thursday morning, and you don't see her again until the following Tuesday where you do it all over again. (Make sure your phone/texting contact is near-zero during your days off from her though.) That's still "once a week" and is perfectly acceptable. I can't see a lot of people complaining about that. I had an MLTR that lasted five years straight, with no LSNFTEs, doing exactly this. So don't freak out when you hear "once a week".
2. "You say you should never let an FB spend the night. That's mean. I could never do that. And plus, I want her to spend the night."
Then upgrade her to MLTR. Then she can spend the night.
Don't want to upgrade her to MLTR? Then plan your evenings in advance. This complaint often comes from guys who have FBs come over to their house at 10pm or 11pm, then have sex, and now it's 1am, and they feel "weird" or "mean" making her go home that late.
When I have an FB come over to my place, I do it as early in the evening as possible, like 6pm or 7pm, if not earlier. (2pm afternoon FB sex is the best!). This way, by the time fun time is over, it's still early, perhaps 9pm or so at the latest; plenty early enough for her to go back home.
You must remember that you harm women when they're one thing in your mind while you're treating them like something else. When you have a pure FB-only and do things with her like spend the night with her in your bed, you are being wildly incongruent with her, and that's not fair to her. Shortly down the road, you're going to really hurt her feelings. It happens every time. That's mean.
3. "You next women if they don't have sex with you by the second date. I don't do that. I don't mind waiting a little longer."
Well first, that's not exactly what I've said. I next women if there is no sexual progression between dates. If we get sexual on the second date, but not all the way to sex, that's perfectly fine. I'll see her again for a third date. BUT, and this is a big BUT, we need to go sexually further on the third date than we did on the second date. If we do, great, I'll happily keep seeing her. If not, and she refuses to go any further than she did on date two, then she's wasting my time. Next! And I'm on to the next woman.
So if there is clear and obvious sexual progression from date to date, that's fine even if you haven't yet had cock-in-pussy sex. The problem is when you have consecutive dates where nothing new is happening sexually. That's unacceptable. It's beta male zone, and you're in for either A) a dump, B) friend zone, or if you manage to actually get laid, C) heavy betaization.
4. "I live in a really small town. Online dating and/or open/poly relationships are really hard to do here."
If you live in a really small town, like with a population of under 10-15K or so, then yes, you're correct. Much of the stuff I talk about is going to be either impossible or ridiculously difficult, requiring an almost James Bond / Bruce Wayne level of game and discretion that even guys like me don't have.
I have no easy answers for you, other that to say that if your woman life is a priority to you, you need to move to a larger city. The next best option is to move to within a one-hour drive of a larger city.
Yes, I realize you're going to make a bunch of excuses as to why you can't do this. Okay then. I have no other answers for you.
5. "There are too many ugly girls online. That's why I don't do online dating."
Go to a local mall and do daygame for a few hours. Then tell me how many ugly or average-looking women you see versus the number of really hot women you see. You will find that daygame is actually worse (in most cases) in terms of hot/ugly ratios than OKCupid or Match.com could ever be. (I won't comment on night game since I don't do that.)
So stop your bitching. Get back on the dating sites, ignore the uglies like I do, and focus on the few cute ones. Or go do night game and enjoy staying up until 3am on weeknights.
6. "Why do you recommend starting a family as a polyamorous man? That's insane! You can't raise kids while doing polyamory! And human beings are not polyamorous creatures; they're pair-bonding creatures. That would never work!"
You're mixing up polyamory with open relationships. Two different things. They're both nonmonogamy, and they're both awesome, but they're still two completely different relationship structures. This is why you'll often see me use the term "open/poly" sometimes to cover both, knowing that they're different.
Polyamory is MLTRs. It's when you're dating, in a "relationship" with, and have romantic feelings for multiple women. In turn, these women are (often) dating multiple men in addition to you.
An open relationship is very different. That's an OLTR. It's when you're dating, in a "relationship" with, and have romantic feelings for ONE WOMAN. Just ONE. You are discreetly fucking other women on the side too, but you're not dating any of these women; they're just FBs or one night stands.
So you're right; starting a traditional family and raising kids in a traditional way under a polyamorous "marriage" would not work and would be completely insane. I do not recommend doing this, never have, and never will.
What I do recommend, strongly, is raising kids in a discreet open live-in relationship or marriage. You love their mother and are devoted to just her, while getting a little on the side with her permission, under whatever ground rules you both agree to. You're exclusive, but not monogamous. Millions of couples all over the Western world are doing this right now, while raising small children. It works as long as you do it right.
A man can move in with a woman without getting married or monogamous. (Oh, how easy that is to forget!)
I would like to eventually live with a woman (an OLTR), and I've been saying this for about five years or so. This is nothing new.
You're welcome to agree or disagree with that goal. Every man is different. Some Alphas/PUAs/players want to get married and monogamous someday. These delusional men are asking for massive chaos and problems in their future, since long-term monogamy doesn't work, especially for high sex drive Alpha Males.
Other Alphas/PUAs/players are the exact opposite; they hate the concept of living with a woman and will never do it. I somewhat agree with these men's points, but I also think they're being a little extreme and very unrealistic.
I fall in-between these two poles. Monogamy-defenders do have one good point, in that human beings are indeed pair-bonding creatures. (I said pair-bonding creatures, not monogamous creatures. One does not equal the other.) As you get older, you are going to want to pair bond with a woman. That's perfectly fine, go ahead and do that, and cohabit if you want...just don't be stupid and get sexually monogamous to her or financially bound to her.
You also need to remember I'm older than most of you (age 42) so if you're 27 your current relationship goals will probably be different than mine.
All that being said, I walk my talk. I promise you that if/when I do this, I will do all the things I've been advising men to do forever, such as sign a co-habitation agreement, keep all finances separate (no joint checking accounts!), don't get monogamous and keep the relationship sexually open (open relationship, not polyamory!), keep fucking women on the side, etc.
If when/I ever make this lifestyle change, you guys will be the first to know, and I'll be giving you a full report. Should make for some entertaining blog posts I'm sure.
8. "You say women over age 33 don't put out. That's stupid! Women in their thirties have way higher sex drives than younger women."
You're absolutely right...but you're leaving out a key component that changes everything.
Yes, women in their thirties and forties are much hornier than women in their twenties. No question about that, and I've described this in detail before. What you're forgetting is that women over age 33 have many more rules regarding when sex is appropriate for them. These are rules that most women in their twenties don't have.
This is why you can have sex with a 25 year-old on the second date, within three hours of face time meet-to-lay (I do this all the time) and the very next day try the exact same thing on a second date with a 35 year-old, only to get a bunch of that's-not-appropriate talk and I'm-a-lady talk from her, then go home with no sex.
The sad paradox is that 35 year-old who was offended you tried to fuck her on the second date probably does have a higher sex drive than the 25 year-old who happily fucked you really fast. But as you can see, the issue of sex drive is completely irrelevant when you're first trying to have sex with her. Ms. I'm A Lady 35 year-old is going to make you wait many dates and make you jump through all kinds hoops like a good little obedient monkey before she "awards" you with access to her magical pussy...while that 25 year-old will rip her own clothes off on the second date and fuck you with a smile on her face.
The "sex drive" that you're referring to with these over-33 women is the sexual desire they experience once you've put in the hours and hours of time playing "gentleman" and have made all the commitments she's demanded of you. Then yes, she'll be really horny for you after all that crap. My point is younger women will be sexually available to you without that crap.
9. "Your soft nexting stuff is for pussies. A real man puts his foot down and tells her how to behave. If she acts like a bitch, you tell her that her behavior is unacceptable and that she'd better not fucking do it again."
This is a classic Alpha Male 1.0 point of disagreement, and is really a difference in style and goals between the Alpha 1.0 and the Alpha 2.0.
If you're an Alpha Male 1.0, then yes, you're going to hate the concept of the soft next. Every time "your" woman does something you don't like, you're going to want to scream your head off and make all kinds of demands and rules. And of course, if she lives in the Western world, she's going to scream right back at you, and now you're in drama argument zone. Have fun with that.
The main point is that by lecturing her like this, you're giving her the attention she craves as a female. You think you're getting your way by yelling and threatening, but in fact you're playing right into her hands. The women in your life love attention from you, even if it's negative. By giving it, her attraction for you will either decrease or stay the same.
Whereas when I soft next a woman, I'm removing that attention she craves. Her compliance goes up, her drama goes down, and when the relationship resumes, her attraction for me increases. It happens every time.
As an Alpha 1.0, your need for control and to be heard overrides all of this, I know. Just be aware of the pros vs. cons of what you're doing.
Lastly, and to me most importantly, I don't have time for drama or babysitting. I have so much more important things going on in my life. I'm way too busy working on my Mission, travelling, spending time with my children, and having sex with other women. Why, oh why, would I put all that goodness on hold just to yell at one particular woman and have her yell back at me? Encouraging more drama into your life is extremely poor time management. You higher-drama guys must have a lot more free time on your hands than I do.
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PUA Brian Kinney 2014-08-07 08:42:50
And even after this you'll keep getting tons of weird and absurd objections. As a master PUA I say with solid knowledge that your relationship management advices are among the most effective in the entire manosphere/PUA community but they're not for everyone, you need balls and the true desire for happiness, you need to really love yourself. You're doing a terrific job Master BD. Thank you. PUA Brian Kinney
Dawson Stone 2014-08-07 09:56:33
Great post. I largely agree. 1. I haven't found this to be as difficult. I let schedules dictate. I might see them 2x one week and not the next. Maybe even a couple of weeks in a row and it hasn't been an issue. 2. I generally agree but a couple of my FBs come late (sometimes 11pm) and it hasn't been an issue where they feel I am acting incongruous. When I can see them earlier I tend to agree. 3. Only about 15% get to a second date without sex but if a woman is hot enough and the dates are cheap or free I have occasionally gone to a 3rd date. Your point is valid in that I am not truly outcome independent because they are extra hot (9s) and I HATE the rare time when I care about the outcome. 4. Agree 5. Agree 6. Agree 7. Disagree but you and I have already beat this to death. 8. Generally you are right but I have found if I set it up right on SDD sites it isn't an issue because they know they are competing with much younger women and do they put out and bring their A game. 9. Totally Agree!!!! NEVER EVER BE EMOTIONALLY PUNISHING
Free&Strong 2014-08-07 09:58:47
Hey BD, thanks for taking the time to clear up some of these questions I'm sure many of us have. The fact that you give us many of these insights and guidelines for free is really awesome. Can't commend you enough for passing along this knowledge. I actually have a question I've been meaning to ask, and this seems like as good a place as any. - When you're initially starting up a relationship with a new woman, how soon into the relationship do you make it known that you are not going to be monogamous with just her? I'm sure you don't blatantly tell her "Hey, I'm gonna be fucking other women" right off the bat, but I'd imagine you have some sort of system to let them know what how things are going to progress. Also, I know you've been talking about your book release happening at some point soon. Any updates on the ETA?
Blackdragon 2014-08-07 10:56:13
When you’re initially starting up a relationship with a new woman, how soon into the relationship do you make it known that you are not going to be monogamous with just her?No sooner than 3-6 months into the relationship. For a few months, you don't verbalize anything and let your EFA do your talking for you. After a few months, she'll demand real verbalization you'll have to reach what I call the Verbalization Point or "The Talk", where you nicely verbalize what's what...though by that time she already knows through your behavior and EFA.
Also, I know you’ve been talking about your book release happening at some point soon. Any updates on the ETA?September! It may get pushed into early October but I'm doing my best to get it out by end of September.
Generally you are right but I have found if I set it up right on SDD sites it isn’t an issueSugar daddy game is a completely different animal, and never what I'm talking about (unless I specify such). I'm always talking about standard game.
Smithson 2014-08-07 12:27:26
I figured this would give you a laugh:
Free&Strong 2014-08-07 15:11:38
Thanks for clearing that up BD. Best to just let your actions and lifestyle dictate how she perceives you until her social conditioning "makes" her push the issue. Got it. And very much looking forward to the book release. I'm gonna read the shit out of that thing.
Blackdragon 2014-08-07 16:43:59
Cool. It's a very dense book. 🙂
Jon 2014-08-08 09:22:15
As a master PUA..."Master" huh? Is there like a PUA guild or something that bestows titles like this? Some group of other master pua's that observe and evaluate an aspiring master's game in field after they've passed through the apprentice-journeyman career chain and vote on whether or not he deserves the title? I hope so, because it would be kind of tacky for a person to give themselves a title like that... 😉
When I have an FB come over to my place, I do it as early in the evening as possible, like 6pm or 7pm, if not earlier. (2pm afternoon FB sex is the best!).I love the 2 pm idea, and have long suspected that's the real reason siestas were so popular in Spain and Latin American countries. Sure, they claimed they were all taking naps, but I think we know what was really going on...
PUA Brian Kinney 2014-08-09 18:43:34
@BD Almost forgot: just like Dawson I've also found that 2 times a week works really well (with MLTRs). You don't bore the girl and you create a connection strong enough to keep her on the palm of your hand, what do you think about this? @Jon Master” huh? Is there like a PUA guild or something that bestows titles like this? 1. The closest thing to a guild are the PUA Lairs where you have really cool interactions with other PUAs and yes, they see me as a master PUA given my 95% success rate with usually HB8s, HB9s, minor celebs, etc. 2. Are you telling me that you don't know that there are tons of geniuses in other fields without a title: title is not necesary. 3. Finally, yes I'm a tacky guy Nice to meet you buddy, I hope we can share interesting insights 🙂 PUA Brian Kinney
POB 2014-09-04 04:13:01
3. “You next women if they don’t have sex with you by the second date. I don’t do that. I don’t mind waiting a little longer.” My humble thoughts....3rd date sex is mandatory OR she's gone. No point here delaying the obvious: you want to have a good time with her. And by the time you guys are going out for a third consecutive time that should be crystal clear in her head. Wait longer and you're entering relationship zone (and that's what SHE wants). Man up!!! Sex or next.
Bob 2015-07-24 10:36:53
Blackdragon, how would you downgrade a girl if you sort of 'accidentally' made her a mltr? I was a bit sloppy and let this girl stay over a few times, but I don't have the kind of feelings for her to warrant an mltr, and she actually annoyed me when she stayed over, I didn't wanna cuddle or anything.. Now she always mentions wanting to do sleep-overs, and she says stuff like "I miss you". Is there a way to smoothly downgrade, or is it better to just end it?
Blackdragon 2015-07-30 12:03:02
Is there a way to smoothly downgrade, or is it better to just end it?There's no real technique to it. You just man-up and do it. When she asks to stay over, just say no, or that you're busy, or whatever. If she bitches about it, soft next.
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