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This goes back to my original contention, based on numerous statistics and studies, that the only people who have the best odds of making long-term monogamy work are two boring, low-sex drive people who marry each other. These people aren't likely to be very good looking, and not place a very high value on physical appearance.
-By Caleb Jones
- Spending more than $2000 on your engagement ring increases the odds of divorce by 30%. Assuming you're dumb enough to get monogamously married, remember that when your sweet little angel who is Not Like The Rest™ demands an expensive ring. "Oh come on! You can afford it! I thought you loved me!"
- Spending more than $20,000 on your wedding increases the odds of divorce by almost 60%. Spending that much money increases your odds of divorce by 3.5 times over people who spend less than $10,000 on their wedding. Spending less than $1,000 gives you slightly decreased odds of divorce over any other spending option.
So again, you shouldn't get legally married anyway, but regardless, be very wary of any woman who demands an expensive wedding, even if you're not paying for it. "I want the wedding I always wanted since I was a little girl! It's the most important day of my life! Come on! My parents will help pay for some if it!"
- The more money you make, the less your odds are for divorce, across all income categories. (Hey! You capitalism haters! Still think "money doesn't matter?" Hmmmmm? I'll say it yet again: the more money people make, the more happy they tend to be.)
- The more you care about your partner's looks, the higher your odds are for a divorce. This includes, oh I don't know, about 99% of the men reading these words. (No wonder divorce rates are so high.)
If you monogamously marry some super hot chick, get ready for a divorce or cheating (or both) down the road. You can almost set your watch to it.
- The more people who show up at your wedding, the lower your odds are of a divorce. That's an interesting one, especially considering the more money you spend on a wedding the higher your odds are for a divorce.
My guess here is that if 200+ people are showing up at your wedding, then the family-based Societal Programming and pressure to stay married forever is enormous. Even when you cheat (which one of you eventually will) you're probably more likely to stick it out in forever drama-mode than actually get a divorce, like those South Americans and southern Europeans. "He's such an asshole! But I can't get a divorce! What would my parents think?"
- Having a honeymoon decreases the odds of a divorce. Very interesting.
The theory in the study is that this honeymoon decrease is simply because wealthier people can afford to go on nice honeymoons, and the more money you make the less your odds are for a divorce. That likely makes this honeymoon thing correlation more than causation.
It's not all roses and unicorns if you're rich though. Statistics show that your wife is more likely to cheat on you if you're worth $1 million or more. And that's to say nothing about YOU cheating, which as an Alpha Male, you eventually will assuming the marriage lasts long enough. (Please spare me the bullshit and don't tell me you'll "never" cheat on her. Jesus.)
The actual scientific study can be downloaded here and makes for some interesting reading.
The Alternative To A Typical, Societal Wedding
I'm about to say something that may shock some of you. I think weddings are fine. Enjoyable even. Seriously. I have no problem with them whatsoever (provided the couple can easily afford it of course). I'm against legal marriage and absolute sexual monogamy that is expected to last longer than three years. I'm not against being in love, weddings, having kids, or moving in together. Those things are all wonderful, and none of them require legal marriage or sexual monogamy.
I talk about Harry Browne's concept of the Unmarriage in my Alpha Male 2.0 book. It means getting married without actually making it legal. In terms of a wedding, here's how you do it:
1. Pay an attorney a few hundred bucks and have him write up a co-habitation agreement for you and her. Make sure by the time you leave his office, you fully understand all of the co-habitation and palimony laws in your city.
2. Sign it with her in the presence of a notary. Your bank will likely provide notary services for free.
3. Have a wedding. Make it as nice as you want without going crazy. The younger she is, the more likely she'll have some extravagant Disney fantasies about how big and fancy the wedding should be, so this is one of the few times having an Unmarriage or OLTR Marriage with an older women will be of benefit. When it comes to fairy tale weddings, if she's 37 she'll likely have a "been there done that" attitude or a "I'm a strong woman I don't need that" attitude, which is good news for you. But if she's 23 with sparkles in her eyes, get ready to argue with her about all the expensive and crazy bullshit she'll want for her Cinderella wedding. All you guys wanting to marry a hot younger woman, beware.
4. The only thing you don't do during the wedding is actually sign a marriage license. You skip that part completely. So after the wedding, you're "married," but not legally.
5. Move in with her under the auspices of the co-habitation agreement she signed. Now you're covered. When the "marriage" ends, which it eventually will (unless you're both over 60, don't plan on a marriage lasting "forever" in today's modern era, just like with a career), then she leaves and gets nothing (unless you have kids with her, in which case you'll pay child support, which you should). The point is, your finances are protected. No divorce, no legal battle, no alimony, none of her "getting half," or any of that garbage.
6. If you're smart, make it an OLTR marriage by keeping the marriage open at least to some degree. That means you're both allowed to get a little on the side within whatever ground rules you both agree to.
If you're not smart (or if you're needy or delusional), then get monogamous, and after a brief period of NRE, be prepared for drama, cheating, and her not wanting to have sex with you anymore. Yay! Good luck with that. (But hey, at least you still aren't legally married.) Congratulations on your new OLTR Unmarriage! (I hope...)
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Troubadour 2015-01-25 05:55:53
Data points: My wedding cost $100, and involved fewer than 10 people. We've been married 21 years. I finally cracked and went for a divorce, and got an open marriage.
Diggy 2015-01-25 07:13:26
"The more you care about your partner’s looks, the higher your odds are for a divorce. This includes, oh I don’t know, about 99% of the men reading these words." haha Guilty! . My mothers third marriage was awesome. She married this ultra christian bible thumper. 2 1/2 years and they never had sex or so much as spent the night sleeping together. I tried to talk some sense into her... go dice. He bought a ring for $20k+, her parents paid for a $35k wedding... 30 DAYS. I shit you not. Surprise, he was hiding behind some sexual issues from childhood. She had to have him evicted out of her own home while she stayed at her parents. I went over to move a bed around for her right before the end of the eviction month and he was crying on the couch with a box of tissues. I'll never get married period! Think twice before even letting them move in, it can be hard to remove them if needed!
Linkage. Read these posts | Observing the Decline 2015-01-25 09:09:16
[…] will tell you the odds of divorce in a variety of marriage […]
Blackdragon 2015-01-25 10:30:19
I finally cracked and went for a divorce, and got an open marriage.Well done! Usually that's a much better path than divorce. Especially if there are small kids involved.
My mothers third marriage was awesome.Good lord. Three marriages...shudder.
New Hombre 2015-01-25 15:26:14
This makes complete sense to me. The more a couple's focus is on putting together a big social event the less their focus on the actual relationship. As has been said on this blog before - women love getting married but hate being married. The groom is nothing but a necessary prop for the grandest event of a woman's life where she gets to be the absolute center of attention. Once that excitement and event is over, the groom is expendable. I think the desire to be the center of attention carries over into motherhood. For many women, once their looks fade, they get their attention fix vicariously through their children - notice how most older women attention whore on Facebook through their kids.
SFG 2015-01-25 15:39:46
Interesting! You know, for those of us at the low end of the attractiveness curve (and for men this means nerds), the smartest thing might just be to find a pleasant ugly girl and stick with her. It might be the reason you see these dorky married couples who have been together for 40 years.
Jon 2015-01-25 16:04:37
the more money people make, the more happy they tend to beTo paraphrase a conversation in an episode of Desperate Housewives*, "Money can't buy happiness" is a lie we tell poor people to keep them from rioting. *Don't judge me. 😛
noob 2015-01-25 16:12:00
I just want some clarifications on some of the definitions in this article. So if you have a wedding (without any signatures signed or any legal stuff) does that make you 'Married'? Like its a valid statement to say 'yeah Jane and I got married last week' and 'I'm married to Jane' etc, just not with any -legal- stuff attatched to it. Second, what will the appropriate title of Jane be in this case? Wife? girlfriend? partner? Lastly I'm going to assume this is -not- common law marriage due to zero legal bindings and enforcment from law. thanks BD
noob 2015-01-25 16:23:00
>Jon I believe the definition of happiness differs from individual to individual. Sure, it never hurts to have more money and less financially strain but that automatically equating 'happiness' is an overstatement. I'm a low income guy but I see plenty of people that make high income and are completely stressed out with work,personal relationships,or maybe in debt. I sure as hell don't wish to be in their position. Sorry off topic
AKA 2015-01-25 16:52:09
Good work in digging up the study BD. Interesting read
Blackdragon 2015-01-25 18:31:35
As has been said on this blog before – women love getting married but hate being married. The groom is nothing but a necessary prop for the grandest event of a woman’s life where she gets to be the absolute center of attention. Once that excitement and event is over, the groom is expendable.Well said and accurate in most cases.
“Money can’t buy happiness” is a lie we tell poor people to keep them from rioting.Haha! I laughed.
So if you have a wedding (without any signatures signed or any legal stuff) does that make you ‘Married’? Like its a valid statement to say ‘yeah Jane and I got married last week’ and ‘I’m married to Jane’ etc, just not with any -legal- stuff attatched to it.Yes. I have a close relative who got married about a year ago. He had a wedding, a beautiful honeymoon, changed his FB status to "married" as did his wife, everything. But they never got legally married. They never signed the marriage license. They didn't want to be legally married for various financial reasons. But the status doesn't change and it doesn't matter to them. To them, and to everyone who knows them, they are married.
Second, what will the appropriate title of Jane be in this case? Wife? girlfriend? partner?Wife. Some more extreme left-wing people tend to call this person "partner," which I think is a little silly. I would use the term wife if ever I did it. But every couple needs to make their own decision.
I’m going to assume this is -not- common law marriage due to zero legal bindings and enforcment from law.Correct. That's why step one in the above article says: Make sure by the time you leave his office, you fully understand all of the co-habitation and palimony laws in your city. If you get an Unmarraige or OLTR marriage but don't check your common law marriage laws in your city first, then you're an idiot. STEP ONE must be to understand the common law, co-habitation, and palimony laws in your city. This type of marriage is impossible in certain extreme left-wing cites because the common law laws are so oppressive. (In that case, MOVE!)
it never hurts to have more money and less financially strain but that automatically equating ‘happiness’ is an overstatement.It's not an overstatement; it's proven by scientific study. Generally speaking, the more money someone has, the happier they tend to be, especially if they make under $100,000 annually. This happiness tends to plateau out around $75,000 per year for most people (but not all). Note I said "generally speaking," since there are always exceptions to every rule. Of course there are some rich people who are overworked and miserable. Exception to the rule, doesn't mean a thing. The question you should be asking is not how many rich people you know who are unhappy, but how many POOR people you know who are unhappy.
Duke 2015-01-26 09:53:58
BD, just out of curiosity, what do you think is reasonable to pay for a ring. Also, do you think it would be too much to ask if she could pay for it on her own?
POB 2015-01-26 10:27:18
I don't get why people invite public burocrats, lawyers and judges into their relationships by getting legally married. It's so obvious that that's the kind of people you will have to deal with, and will be messing around at your life (and personal stuff), once it's finally over. On the other hand, I had an ex full of drama/disney that wanted to have a complete veggie wedding! No kidding! Geez, think about it!!!
rgz 2015-01-26 10:41:30
How would you convince a women to have a low costing un-marriage for a wedding? This seems like it would be a tough sell.
Blackdragon 2015-01-26 11:01:39
How would you convince a women to have a low costing un-marriage for a wedding? This seems like it would be a tough sell.Your EFA begins on the first minute of the first date, not two years later when you start discussing your wedding. For example, every woman who's been in my life longer than about 2 weeks knows I'm a financial tightwad who hates spending money and is not really into "romantic shit." Any woman who wants to marry me (and there have been several; at one point I was averaging 2 marriage proposals a year from women) knows going into the conversation that I'm not going to agree to some huge and expensive legal wedding. On the other hand, if you were Mr. Ass-Kissing Beta Boyfriend for two years and then tried to convince a woman of an inexpensive Unmarriage, then yeah, you'd have a big problem on your hands (and it would be your fault).
rgz 2015-01-26 12:15:20
Even if you have good EFA and frugal habits, wouldn't the women still have a strong pull towards a high costing wedding? It seems to me like this is the default they want.
Blackdragon 2015-01-26 19:29:39
BD, just out of curiosity, what do you think is reasonable to pay for a ring.I don't have a set rule, but speaking in general it should be something you can very, very, VERY easily afford based on your income.
Also, do you think it would be too much to ask if she could pay for it on her own?Not at all. Some women even offer to pay for their own. Totally cool.
Even if you have good EFA and frugal habits, wouldn’t the women still have a strong pull towards a high costing wedding? It seems to me like this is the default they want.Of course that's the default of what they want, but that doesn't mean anything. Women also want monogamy "by default" yet I never have any problems with multi-long nonmono relationships. It's the same deal with weddings. Your difficulty in convincing her is based on these four factors, listed in order of importance: 1. Your EFA. 2. Her type. 3. How much she likes you. 4. How much Disney she has. (Based on her age, religious upbringing, cultural upbringing, and extended family structure.) For example, if your poly EFA is strong, she's a Submissive or Independent, she really likes you a hell of a lot, she has a very small family and was raised nonrelgiously in the US, you're good to go. However if your EFA is betaish or "monogamous" (meaning monogamous but you cheat) Alpha 1.0, she's a Dominant, she likes you but knows you're disposable and replaceable, and she has a huge extended family and was raised Eastern Orthodox in Russia, then you're fucked. Get ready to spend $30,000 on that wedding, Mr Husband!
Take The Red Pill 2015-01-27 09:19:51
New Hombre on January 25, 2015 at 3:26 pm said: "...women love getting married but hate being married." Actually, it's the WEDDING that women love; they hate everything else about marriage. Otherwise, he's spot-on. P.S. Now that I think about it, they also love the divorce, too. It would be interesting to know which they love more than the other -- the wedding or the divorce.
Blackdragon 2015-01-27 12:01:40
Actually, it’s the WEDDING that women love; they hate everything else about marriage.Women like the "fun part" of marriage. When single women think of "marriage," they don't think about washing a man's dirty underwear for 40 years and being stuck with a guy they don't want to have sex with anymore. No, instead they think of the fun part: - The proposal - Announcing it to everyone on Facebook - The getting the rings - Planning the wedding - The bachelorette party - The wedding - The honeymoon - Moving in together - The first baby The problem is all that stuff is completely over with within the first 12-18 months or so. Women don't realize that for the next 40 years the marriage is going to be a long, boring slog with lots of work and sacrifice for very little results, only to (statistically speaking) end up with either a divorce or a husband who cheats on her behind her back. That's why women love getting married, women hate being married. Getting married is really fun. Being married (after all that fun stuff is far in the past) sucks.
POB 2015-01-28 06:27:32
I wonder why divorced women hate the idea of getting married again. Once all the disney is over and they realize what's all about, they avoid it like the plague!!! And damn those chicks are horny! Most guys, on the other hand, would love to re-marry (or become BF) with a hot younger woman ASAP. Two completely different post-divorce behaviors.
Jon 2015-01-28 10:38:08
I wonder why divorced women hate the idea of getting married again. Once all the disney is over and they realize what’s all about, they avoid it like the plague!!! And damn those chicks are horny! Most guys, on the other hand, would love to re-marry (or become BF) with a hot younger woman ASAP. Two completely different post-divorce behaviors.I don't think you can say that divorced women hate the idea of getting married again while most guys would love to remarry. Based a quick google search, it would appear that men in general are slightly more likely to remarry after a divorce than women (something like 50% vs 45% within five years according to a dated US Census presentation). And by ten years, most men and women have remarried. It's probably more likely that women go through phases where they SAY they don't want to get married again which only lasts until they get back to the "I want to get married again" phase.
Glenn Pearce 2015-01-28 15:41:17
Great post! I'm amazed that you even found some stats on this topic! Goes to show that in some cases... Less is more!!!! I'm weeping as I write this for all those women and their unrealistic engagement ring and wedding expectations. 8)
POB 2015-01-29 15:50:03
Jon, I really have no data to back it up. It´s just my personal experience, which of course could be somewhat biased. I think they do hate the idea of being married again, but hate even more the idea of being old and alone. So probably they end up marrying a second time so they won't feel that way anymore. Again, it's just a guess based on what I've seen.
donjuable 2015-02-03 03:23:25
money problems is 99% reason for divorce..
Erynn Haskins 2015-02-03 08:20:55
Great tips, I'm engaged and don't plan on having a lavish ceremony so I'm going to consider some of these points lol.
Jonathan 2015-03-17 20:44:53
Hey BD, This is my first time posting on your blog. Firstly, just wanna say thinks for creating this blog. It has been very insightful on my development into an independent Alpha. Secondly, I love the idea of the Unmarriage Concept. I think if I do decide to get married in the future, that's the only type of marriage I would agree to. The way I see it, this is how marriage is supposed to be, without the legal matters involved. I also believe women are less likely to divorce from this type of marriage, especially if there are more than one child produced from this marriage. Sure, it will be hard finding a woman who will agree to this type of marriage. But as long as she likes you a lot, she will agree to the marriage.
a b 2016-08-31 02:40:00
It’s not an overstatement; it’s proven by scientific study. Generally speaking, the more money someone has, the happier they tend to be, especially if they make under $100,000 annually. This happiness tends to plateau out around $75,000 per year for most people (but not all). Note I said “generally speaking,” since there are always exceptions to every rule. Of course there are some rich people who are overworked and miserable. Exception to the rule, doesn’t mean a thing. The question you should be asking is not how many rich people you know who are unhappy, but how many POOR people you know who are unhappy.------------------------ You should say "psycho-physically healthy" rather than "happy". The thing is not about the more money the better, but about having enough money to live safe from money-related mental strain and anxiety. That's why "happiness" it plateaus out at around $75,000, and that's why millionaries aren't "happier" people at all, and actually, specially in the case of celebrities, they show plenty of "unhappiness" (unhealthiness) indicators. Still, no question that being poor is a very depressing condition if not the most depressing.
gay nerd dating 2021-08-02 12:59:05
gay nerd dating The More the Expensive the Wedding, the Higher the Odds for a Divorce - Alpha Male 2.0