06 Mar Advocating Serial Monogamy for Men?
The Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle is the best (or should I say least-bad?) lifestyle in terms of long-term and consistent happiness for the modern man living in today’s fallen world (“consistent” meaning as consistent as realistically possible). In the years I have been advocating and debated this lifestyle with literally hundreds of people, not one has yet shown me a better system for a man that will make him happy over the long-term, as in decades of his life, unless that man is an usual exception to the rule (for example, if he has a very submissive personalty and/or a very low sex drive).
-By Caleb Jones
If long-term happiness is your top priority as a man, the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle is what you want. If you instead pursue lifestyles pushed by women, beta males, or Alpha Male 1.0’s, you will not be as happy long-term as men like me, as I illustrated here.
This is not in question and again, I have seen no compelling evidence to the contrary despite debating this topic with many people over many years.
However! Things get a little complicated when you don’t consider your long-term happiness as your top priority. This, indeed, is where the conversations shifts and I could then be considered “wrong” when pushing this lifestyle.
Enter serial monogamy.
As always, we need to get our definitions straight. Per my glossary, I define serial monogamy thusly:
Serial Monogamy – A constant succession of monogamous partners, one after the next. This system is almost always initiated by women. Usually, no one partner lasts longer than about three years. Generally speaking, the younger the woman, the faster she switches partners. Serial monogamy is the secret, preferred biological method of pair bonding for women under the age of 50. (Polygamy being the biological default for men.)
Serial monogamy is a type of monogamy where you are monogamous to one person for a while, then switch partners and are monogamous with the next person. These relationships can last anywhere from two months to several years. (If the relationship lasts less than two months, then I don’t consider you having a serial monogamous “relationship.” You’re just someone who happened to not have sex with someone else for a while.)To be very clear, while serial monogamy is monogamy, it is not long-term monogamy or Disney monogamy that I rail against so often, which I define thusly:
Disney Monogamy – Any monogamy that is expected to last longer than three years with no breakup, divorce, cheating, or long-term boredom, ever, by either party. Disney monogamy is often expected in relationships and marriages, even though it rarely actually occurs in the modern era; serial monogamy, polyamory, or open relationships being more viable options.
Disney monogamy doesn’t work, hasn’t worked in Western society for quite a while, and all the facts and stats clearly show this. [1,2,3] Does that mean that serial monogamy doesn’t work either?
The answer is, it depends. There are some things you need to know about serial monogamy before you pursue this as a lifestyle.
Serial Monogamy Is a Feminine System
The first thing you’ll have to understand is that serial monogamy is not a masculine system. If you accept this lifestyle, realize that you are entering into a system that was never designed or you. I’ll prove it several ways.
As stated in the definition, serial monogamy is the biological default for women. Fuck one guy, just this one guy, and don’t let him fuck anyone else… until I get bored with him and dump him. Then I’ll find a new guy, just fuck him, and make sure he doesn’t fuck anyone else, until I get bored with him. And so on.
The stats, the science, and the biology all point to this. This is how women were designed 200,000 years ago, and they aren’t changing any time soon. Most women love serial monogamy. They get both the boyfriend experience and societal accolades they crave and the NRE and exciting newness of a new lover any time they want. It’s an absolute win/win for them.
Read this article here about how women really feel about serial monogamy. It’s one of the most eye-opening things you’ll ever read about how disposable women know you are.
Is serial monogamy what men really want? No. Men’s biological default is polygamy. I’m going to fuck you and I’m going to fuck other women, but you can’t fuck other men, and don’t ever leave me, or I’ll fucking kill you and kill him (in the case of the Alpha Male 1.0) or I’ll cry and be depressed for six months (in the case of the beta male).
That’s what most men really want, at a deep biological level, even if they don’t like to admit it. Of course, in today’s left-wing society, polygamy (a male system) is not accepted and considered barbaric, and serial monogamy (a female system) is widely accepted and even encouraged. Such is Societal Programming, and that’s a discussion for another time.
So, men choose other options, like Disney monogamy (though with cheating of course), open relationships, being a player, eschewing women completely and being a MGTOW, or whatever. But serial monogamy? Chosen by a man? No.
I’ll show you what I mean.
In discussing and debating the issue of relationships with hundreds of men over the years, I have had numerous men defend Disney monogamy, numerous men defend MGTOW, numerous men defend FBs/MLTRs, numerous men defend OLTRs and OLTR marriages, and numerous men defend other nonmonogamous marriages/relationships like swinging. I’m talking lots of men defending all of these types of relationships to me.Do you know how many men have defended serial monogamy to me?
Three.
That’s right. Three. In almost ten years, I’ve had three guys who said, with a straight face, that serial monogamy was a good idea for a man and that men should do it. One guy was on a pickup forum years ago. Another was a guy who used to comment on this blog a few years ago, and one more guy defended it in the comments in a recent post I made.
Three guys. That’s got to tell you something, folks.
Serial monogamy is not a male system. Even Disney monogamy could be considered male, but not serial monogamy.
Be sure you understand that.
When Happiness Is Not Your Goal
So does serial monogamy “work” for a man? What if you say to me:
“Look BD, I realize marriage doesn’t work anymore and is a shit deal for a man, but all this open relationship stuff is too much work and I can’t stand it if a woman I’m having sex with fucks another guy. I’ll shoot myself in the face if this happens. So fuck it, I’m going to do serial monogamy. I’ll just get monogamous, and I won’t plan on the relationship lasting forever. I’ll just dump her if she pisses me off and get a new girlfriend after her.”
Are you right, or are you wrong?
It depends on one key factor: how important your long-term happiness is to you. Remember I said long-term happiness, not happiness, because there’s a big difference.
If your long-term happiness is your top priority in life, as it is mine, then yes, you are wrong, and you’re making a huge life mistake. By engaging in this lifestyle, you will experience happiness mixed with frequent problems and unhappiness, due to things like:
1. Drama, since monogamy (serial or not) encourages drama from a woman, and since she knows she’s got her hooks into you and you can’t just go fuck someone else. Too much comfort equal drama, and monogamy makes women very comfortable.
2. Oneitis, since monogamy (serial or not) is conducive towards a scarcity mentality (“She is my only source of sex. She is my only source of companionship.”) which eventually creates oneitis, including (and sometimes especially) if you are an Alpha Male 1.0.
3. Lack of sex, since the sex will decline sharply once NRE is over.
4. Pain whenever a relationship ends. Your fantasy will be that you are going to dump her when you get tired of her, and maybe you will. Usually though, you won’t. You’ll put up with her crap (for the reasons above) and she will likely dump you when you don’t want it to happen. Remember that 75% of all boyfriend/girlfriend relationships and 70-80% of all marriages are terminated by the female.
“That won’t happen to me BD! I’m Alpha!” Yeah, it might not, but how do you know? I see Alpha 1.0’s get dumped all the time. And you’re going to have lots of these relationships. Are you going to dump her before she dumps you (or cheats on you) every single time? You and I both know the answer. Most men in serial monogamous relationships are just waiting around to get cheated on, betrayed, or dumped, and when they don’t want it to happen and/or aren’t planning on it.
5. Sexual frustration, since you won’t be allowed to fuck other women and you’ll want to. (And please, for Christ’s sake, don’t lie to me and tell me you won’t want to. Stop lying to me, and more importantly, to yourself.) Look at all those hot girls you’re not allowed to touch. Does that make you happy, tough guy?
“No problem, BD! I’ll just cheat!” Ah yes, cheating…
6. Cheating, on your part. Spending the rest of your life being a liar, sneaking around, living like a little snake, not being who you really are, being terrified of her finding something on your phone or in your email… none of this crap makes you happy and you know it. Cheating is not a path for a man who desires long-term, consistent happiness.
7. Cheating, on her part. You find out that she’s been getting sexual (or even just romantically emotional) with another guy. Isn’t that nice? All of your guy-Disney unicorn fantasies of feminine love, purity, and honesty have been dashed. And you’re raging with fury about the guy who fucked your sweet little angel who was Not Like The Rest™.
Are you happy now? Did your serial monogamy “work?” I’ve never been cheated on by a woman and I’ve probably been in more multi-year long relationships than you have. Do you know why that is? Because I’m nonmonogamous. Women can’t cheat on me because they’re allowed to fuck other guys, just like I’m allowed to fuck other women. Being cheated on is an alien concept to me; I don’t even know what it would feel like. And I’m glad, since I don’t think that would feel very good, and I want to be happy.
For all these reasons and many others, serial monogamy will not make you happy in the long-term as a man. Sometimes you’ll be happy, sometimes you’ll be unhappy. You’ll never be as long-term happy as the Alpha Male 2.0 who doesn’t utilize these problematic relationship structures.
But wait, the conversation isn’t over. What if you then said something like this:
“Okay, BD, fine, I admit that being a serial monogamist won’t make me as happy in the long run as you. I get that I won’t get as much sex and the breakups will be harder and blah blah blah. I understand all that, but I don’t care. I still prefer serial monogamy because of X and Y. That’s why I’m going to do it.”
NOW we have no disagreement. You and I have different priorities. My priority is long-term consistent happiness. Your priority is something else. Of course you want to be happy, but happiness isn’t at the top of the list. Instead you likely want, what I call in my book, one of the Six Societal Values, those things pushed hard by both Societal Programming and your own outdated, Obsolete Biological Wiring. So go for it, but I won’t.I choose happiness first, over everything else. I don’t see any real evidence for reincarnation or an afterlife, so I have to assume that once I’m dead, I’m dead, and I never get to do this precious, wonderful thing called life again. I see no reason to waste my one, tiny, precious life on things like drama, not getting laid, having women dump me and thus making me feel bad whenever they want, getting cheated on, or any of that stuff. But that’s me. You may be different.
If anything is more important to you than your own long-term happiness, then great! Feel free to get as serial monogamous as you like. I’ll be over here being happy and hopefully you’ll be over there getting… well, getting whatever you want that isn’t happiness. Fine by me. We have no argument.
The only disagreement is whether or not serial monogamy will make you happy. It won’t. But there is no disagreement between us if you state happiness is not your top priority.
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hey hey
Posted at 05:56 am, 6th March 2017Ha had this conversation with a cousin. He doesn’t know about non monogamy, his only options are serial and Disney monogamy. After a long Disney one with lots of cheating and frustration he now relies entirely on serial. And PAYS A LOT on women. There is no way you can do serial monogamy without starting the relationship on the woman’s terms, at least after a certain age. It doesn’t only affect happiness but the pocket too.
Gil Galad
Posted at 06:10 am, 6th March 2017Hard to argue with this.
A question BD: in your experience (including other men you’ve spoken to), how much of a problem is “OLTR cheating”, ie, OLTRs doing the one thing they’re not allowed to do, having a secret MLTR (not just FB or hookup)?
I agree with most of the article. Not too long ago I might’ve taken the serial monogamy deal because precisely, I wasn’t consciously prioritizing happiness. It isn’t a coincidence that in that same period I loved movies where the ‘hero’ dies an epic death and thought it’d be great to die gloriously at around 40, before the long decline. Nowadays I’m much closer to hedonism than to stoicism; I still have morals but no longer suscribe at all to the idea that it’s good on some mysterious level to do whatever SP deems virtuous. The temptation to not be the only owner of yourself and to just let society possess you (following painful SP in exchange for social validation and some kind of “community comfort”) is strong in most people.
I also think that all those serial breakups aren’t just ‘cheap’ psychological pain: repeated heartache, even for someone who recovers quickly from these things, does *physical* damage to you, and in accordance with my recently acquired hedonism, that’s a big no-no, almost on par with smoking. I want to live as long as possible, as happily as possible. The same reasoning goes for why frequent drama is not acceptable: honey, go damage someone else’s neurons.
Alejo
Posted at 06:55 am, 6th March 2017I’m in a serial monogamist relationship, we both agreed that this relationship will only last a few years. It sucks.
I think that because of my one- itis I made a terrible choice back then. Is not that I don’t like her, I’m probably really happy 80-90% of the time, but that 20-10% really sucks. The monster of breaking up is behind the corner all the time. We share the same group of friends, what could happen after if we break up? Too much drama.
She demands a lot of time, sexual frustration is real, because we take each other for granted it really hurts when we don’t match our expectations, we manage jealousy different, she expect some jealousy from me, if I don’t give a fuck some drama is followed, sometimes she gets jealous of my friends!
Yeah, probably I’m in a somehow toxic relationship, is there a less dramatic way to end this? How to stay rational when the burst of emotion happens?
Omar
Posted at 07:33 am, 6th March 2017Blackdragon I don’t know if it is asking for too much or if you did this already, but I wish you would compare the female and Alpha 2.0 system in some sort of head-to-head table. I think you did that before when you showed how female attraction works where you showed the inverse relationships of attraction as opposed to making her satisfied. It has made it easier for my brain to remember the concept.
For example, you could point out the most important characteristics of the female system and how it can co-exist with a major competing characteristic of the male system in a win-win situation. And maybe also point out the different compromises that need to be made for each system to be fulfilled. I’m not trying to tell you what to do, and if you tell me “read my blog more and figure it out” I’ll be would be ok with that. But I would love your take on it.
Dimwit
Posted at 07:33 am, 6th March 2017BD, did you read women’s infidelity by Michelle Langley?
She wrote a pretty long book. The book is about the
failure of tmm
To quote her
Women’s relationships today follow a very
predictable pattern:
They push men for commitment
They get what they want
They lose interest in sex
They become attracted to someone else
They start cheating
They begin telling their partners that they need time apart
They blame their partners for their behavior…and eventually, after a long time of vacillating back and forth, and several failed attempts to give up their affairs, they end their relationships or marriages
Alex
Posted at 07:57 am, 6th March 2017Of course the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle is the best system for long term happiness, as freedom=happiness.
But I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, as maybe there is no such thing as true long term happiness. Admittedly I’m yet to experience this, but what if the sexual jealousy (and therefore unhappiness) of a high-end MLTR/OLTR having regular sex with another guy was huge.
For example, if she suddenly started acting less enthusiastic towards you, and you knew it was because she was having sex with him? I suppose this is similar to Gil Galad’s question in the case of an OLTR “cheating”.
Hypothetically, could this unhappiness be on a par with the Disney Monogamy system for more jealous personalities? Or would the negatives/unhappiness of Disney Monogamy always outweigh the negatives of OLTR cheating or a high-end MLTR fucking other guys, regardless of your jealousy levels?
I know there are if’s and but’s with this scenario, but they are real possibilities, and I know my sexual jealousy is a huge detractor from my long term happiness potential (and I’m working on it) 🙂
CrabRangoon
Posted at 08:13 am, 6th March 2017Ugh this was me for many years-the serial monogamist. It sucked, there was cheating, drama, etc… This new way is much better and people even can see the difference in how much happier I seem. Of course some also get butthurt and envious of this too and can try to bring you back on to the plantation. They insist you can’t be “truly happy” in this model which I can only assume is them trying to convince themselves they made the right choice by signing up for the “prison” as good old Harry Browne called it.
POB
Posted at 08:33 am, 6th March 2017This alone should be more than enough for men to not promise their balls to anyone. Don’t care how hot your “sweetie” is, eventually you’ll want to fuck some other ass. It’s inevitable! And after a while your bored female panda will want another sausage too! Does not matter how “Alpha” or “Correct” you are, one (or both) of these two things will happen someday.
“Best” case scenario to serial monogamy? You love her. You want to fuck other girls. You stay “in line” for a long time until you can’t help it anymore. As a “nice guy” who does not cheat, you dump her before anything worse happens, reap piles of drama both from her and your family, get depressive (or not) for a while, get better, fool around for a bit, get bored and start it all over again.Though I know most guys will be lazy and cheat (and get caught).
Seriously though, I look around and see absolutely no reason to compromise my sexual freedom for social acceptance. None, zero.
One thing I still don’t get is why most of my friends are so skeptical when I pitch the 2.0 lifestyle to them. Even if I say (and prove) that I’m living my sexual and relationship life exactly how I’m describing the concept, they don’t believe it will work for them. SP is really strong!
Jarod
Posted at 08:49 am, 6th March 2017Hi BD,
I wouldn’t argue that serial monogamy is a ideal thing. If anything I would say that it might be a more realistic option for most people. I agree with all of the points that you made above about the problems that are encountered with monogamy. I would argue that the logistics of an OLTR would seem to make it very much “like” serial monogamy for most people (not necessarily BD).
I’m an older guy so an OLTR type situations sounds great, but dating and finding those that are willing to be an FB on the side and a place to do it all make it more difficult especially with the constraints of daily life (job, adhering to a normal schedule, having time for these things). So even if a woman is on board with the concept, it seems like a real chore to avoid de-facto monogamy which would lead back to serial monogamy (whether he prefers it or not).
Also, if living with an OLTR and having the agreement to be open, I wonder about some other problems. If she is out having sex with another man while you are away, won’t sex between you and your OLTR naturally decrease? If an average man works a 8-5, won’t he have trouble not falling into the trap of considering his OLTR his primary source of sex simply because of time constraints and her availability? If so won’t he be unhappy when she doesn’t feel up to it because she already been boned this week and he simply doesn’t have time to arrange for anything on the side at the last minute? Doesn’t this lead back to oneitis, sexual frustration, drama, and pain when the relationship ends?
Let me give an example. After getting up at 6:30 am and working all day and coming home to have dinner and relax a bit, you initiate sex and your OLTR says no thanks. Is it really plausible to call a FB at 8pm to arrange sex for that night and then drive to her place or a hotel and then then still have fun and get into bed at some sort of decent hour so you can get back up early for work? It seems that it would be very easy to just say fuck it which leads back to monogamy on your part? Also, since your OLTR was interested in chilling at home when you are obviously going out to get sex, wouldn’t this create drama since she may have wanted to hang out and just watch a movie with you since her needs have already been satisfied?
I have never had an open relationship, so I admit I don’t have any real life experience with this. I am legitimately wondering how a man can avoid de-facto monogamy in real life?
Serial monogamy sucks and I’m the first to admit that it’s terrible when things end, but it seems easier to set up and it is fun for a while. What may be more realistic is for the average man to decide exactly what requirements must be met in a relationship and for him then to have the balls to end it when it gets to the point that the relationship no longer meets the requirements. I’m not saying that’s ideal at all, but maybe more realistic for the average dude.
Parade
Posted at 10:05 am, 6th March 2017Why are you thinking about sacrificing your needs for hers? If she gives you drama because you’re getting your needs met (whether that’s chilling at home or getting laid) when she decided not to meet them the proper response is some flavor of a next.
Jarod
Posted at 10:26 am, 6th March 2017Parade,
I am talking about an OLTR situation. It would be hard to next her since you would be living with her. Also drama takes many forms. It can mild as in her being mildly irritable, unusually quiet, passive aggressive, etc. It’s all drama and when you point it out she says something like, “I’m not upset” or “I’m just tired”. As any man knows that’s a difficult situation because you can’t just tell your live in to act more happy because she’s not doing what you want. Its drama and she calls it something else, but both of you know what it’s about.
Parade
Posted at 11:02 am, 6th March 2017Yes, live in OLTR makes nexting harder. That doesn’t excuse you from figuring out a way to make it happen. You may need to deal with some minor amount of drama that you wouldn’t otherwise, but that is a trade off of having an OLTR. And if it’s a major amount of drama, well, you know what to do.
Roger
Posted at 11:18 am, 6th March 2017Serial monogamy is fine. I like doing the girlfriend thing, I don’t live with them though. I make sure that they don’t bring too much stuff to my place either. It’s easy since I live a very minimalist lifestyle, so her stuff stands out & there really isn’t that much room for her either.
I don’t leave things at her place either, some girls get pissy about either of these. I’ve stated how I deal with discouraging them, I also tell them I might throw their stuff out accidentally “Imagine how you would feel if I threw that expensive make up out with the trash?” I also move a lot and tell them I’m not sure if I’ll stay in this house.
As for me not having my things at theirs, “How would you feel if I began cluttering your place up with my things?” They often say I don’t have much of anything, then I say exactly, that’s why I don’t bring things over. Sometimes I leave an old toothbrush, nearly empty toothpaste or even old boxers & old shirt.
As for pressure to move it, I say I’m happy the way things are right now. And if they say more sex (YEAH RIGHT!), I tell her that I’m happy with the level of sex right now ?. Besides I’m very busy working (on my mission BDragon!).
If their is drama I can softnext or hardnext if I have to. I don’t get oneitist, and I don’t cheat, not too worried if she cheats, we’ll deal with that if she’s honest – usually it means she’s bored and its time to end before the nuclear drama. I often move towns or country and tell them, our relationship has gone its course, we had a pretty good run. Often this is the best sex of the relationship. I don’t usually contact them after that, I’m not on facebook. I frequently live in smaller towns too.
I see quite a few older folks (60-70’s not 8-10’s on looks) doing serial monogamy they also live separately. I don’t know what their drama is like but they seem pretty chill.
These relationships can last from months to a couple of years, but not more than 3 years. I am open to open relationships – but is difficult, sometimes do swinging orgies with 1 addition or a couple.
The reason I like serial mono is it reduces the chance sti’s. I often use condoms, not ready to be a father just yet, sometimes I go without and put on at end I have extremely good self control.
As for valentines day/aniversary drama BS, I have a stack of evidence that I’m treating her right, and I state early on that I prefer to appreciate her everyday, rather than a few times a year. I explain this all the time, I even write it down for them to take home. Yes they can still get pissy, it is funny when they tear up the paper and I bring out another copy, and tell them I’ve a hundered more, if she feels like exercise – “it’s great for stress relief.”
I do buy them some moderately priced gifts when with them so they can get exactly what they want (shoes, dress, earrings, lingerei) once the relationship has gone for several months. Nothing that I can’t get something from. I don’t really do gifts though – my minimalist lifestyle, also not showering them in money or affection or anything over the top.
I don’t do fuck buddies. And don’t notice ASD, though I’m quite good looking, I do see many other similar things which I think BD is confused about – I’ll explain that more if anyone is interested.
Capitalist
Posted at 11:24 am, 6th March 2017This is why I like serial monogamy…
One thing I disagree with you on is what constitutes a high sex drive. This is a personal thing and I get that but I am your age and personally I want sex daily. I could actually have it 4-5 times a day but I settle for 1-2 a day and then maybe 4-5 times in a day once or twice a month.
Before I got married I made that clear to my fiancé. We were married and she kept up her end and we had great sex pretty much daily or more for almost 20 years. Then after 20 years she cheated on me. She fell in love with another guy. She kept having sex with me (before I caught her) but it wasn’t the same so I went looking into things and found out she was cheating and then divorced her. I never cheated on her. I have a high sex drive but as long as I’m being taken care of by a woman that turns me on I don’t need anyone else. That’s just how I am.
After the divorce I dated A LOT and had fun with girls in their 20’s and did not do monogamy for several years. However I am now in a monogamous relationship. If I find a girl who is hot and that I like to be with and can handle as much sex as I want to have then I don’t really want to let that go. We have been together for just over a year and we still have sex daily or more. If her interest in doing that fades then the relationship will end. I will be sad for while yes but if/when that happens I will then date lots of women again until I find another girl who is a good fit for me in that way.
I just make sure I am ready for anything. And I won’t be getting married again. I think the most valuable thing you have taught me BD is that most modern relationships don’t last. So I keep that in mind and keep myself in shape and ready for anything.
But I am happier in this relationship than I was when I was dating 4+ woman at the same time. That felt like work. This relationship doesn’t.
anon1
Posted at 12:05 pm, 6th March 2017@Dimwit
More like the men ask for commitment nowadays.
DA
Posted at 12:14 pm, 6th March 2017I don’t see how this is different from the early stages of the polyamory model. Women who aren’t into poly will be unhappy and probably piss the guy off, and then he will dump her and get a new girlfriend, rinse and repeat until he eventually establishes a consistent system where he is openly dating a few women who tolerate non-monogamy.
As long as the serial monogamist keeps each relationship length short ( <1 year ) then it is basically just as good as polyamory until he gets old and desires some long-term connection like a “wife” then he’s kinda fucked. So I guess if you are a man who doesn’t plan ever on getting married or having a live-in OLTR/GF then serial monogamy could be completely fine.
hilsey
Posted at 12:43 pm, 6th March 2017I enjoy The Maury Show–the pain of monogamy on full display.
Unfortunately, the outrageousness let’s the average viewer believe the problem is not monogamy but the couples, “Wow. That will never happen to me/us!”
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:25 pm, 6th March 2017I literally can’t remember the last time I heard a man or woman in an OLTR (live-in or otherwise) complain about this.
I don’t give advice to men in monogamous relationships. Perhaps others here can help you.
It would be a very simple, boring table. The woman system is what I said it is: be monogamous with this guy until I get bored or irritated with him, then be monogamous with the next guy, rinse and repeat until my 50’s or so.
I’ll have more to say about that later.
No. I already know monogamy doesn’t work.
Correct.
Item #13 here.
I’ve already addressed all of these excuses folks, many times, and many years ago.
I would shrug have more sex with FB’s.
People with more jealous personalities, who don’t want to take any action to work on this, aren’t capable of long-term monogamy no matter what relationship structure they have.
The most jealous women I’ve ever been in MLTR’s with all eventually LSNFTE‘d me and got into monogamous relationships with new guys where they got even more jealous with them.
If you’re a jealous person, you’re going to be jealous. Open or monogamous doesn’t matter.
As a matter of fact, in my anecdotal experience at least, monogamy makes jealous people more jealous, since they don’t fully know what’s going on. The not knowing seems to make it worse.
Correct, just like being overweight is more realistic for most people, just like being poor is more realistic for most people, etc, etc. Negative is always easier than positive; that’s how the universe works.
If it does, I won’t care. I’ll have FB’s to fuck if that happens, just like she will.
Questions like this are coming from a monogamous and/or scarcity and/or lazy mindset.
Yes. De facto monogamy is always a risk for men in OLTR’s, particularly less aggressive men, lower sex drive men, and busier men. This why so many men with OTLR’s eventually go de facto, and suffer all the usual problems with monogamy, which, of course, is stupid.
Yes, de facto monogamy is monogamy, so yes, it leads to frustration, drama, and more pain when the relationship ends. Duh.
No, it’s not plausible. Later that evening or the next day you’d just whip out your phone and would schedule a FB or two for later in the week. If your OLTR kept up this no-sex thing as a pattern of behavior, which she has every right to do, you’d just schedule more time with FB’s.
She can always say no, but you can always get more on the side. Fair is fair. Unlike monogamy, it’s a level playing field.
Somewhat, yeah. That’s called de facto monogamy and is very bad.
Laziness always leads to unhappiness.
That’s why I would not do that. Your frame in a live-in OLTR should always be, “You can say no to sex whenever you want, with no drama from me, but I can fuck whomever I want, and I’m going to fuck side-women more often if I don’t get sex from you.” But in terms of real-life action, no, I wouldn’t immediately leave the house at 8pm on a weeknight to go get sex right then and there if my live-in OLTR said no. That would cause drama and I don’t do drama. Instead, I would do what I mentioned above.
Millions of men all over the world do, including me.
Then do the girlfriend thing with an OLTR (or even high-end MLTR if you’re careful). I have a girlfriend, do all the usual boyfriend/girlfriend stuff, and I can still play around with other women (unlike you).
Item #2 here.
I’ve already addressed all of these excuses folks, many times, and many years ago.
Just like the last guy who defended serial monogamy here, you defend it, and in the same comment, immediately tell sob stories about how you were cheated on. Doesn’t that prove my point and invalidate yours?
Cool. Have fun getting cheated on again.
I know, I know, that won’t happen again. Right?
Uh huh. 🙂
Capitalist
Posted at 01:51 pm, 6th March 2017“Cool. Have fun getting cheated on again.”
Well you missed my point. My point is, I will have sex with her daily or multiple times a day for as long as it lasts (so far over one year). If/when the sex drops at all, then the relationship will end. If/when that happens or if/when the relationship ends for any other reason I will then date many girls again and eventually find another girl who likes to have sex 1+ times a day and then have another serious relationship… until that one ends and so on. I’m having tons of sex I’m enjoying my time with the current gf and I am happy. At the end of my life I will have had many great relationships and will have had ridiculous amounts of sex. I don’t think this is such a bad deal. Regardless of the particulars of how each relationship ended.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:59 pm, 6th March 2017I know. And my point is, you may get cheated on again, which you won’t like.
As I said in the article, you hope that you will be the one who dumps first. You may not be (and statistically you won’t be). You’re just crossing your fingers and hoping, rather than engaging in a plan that positions you for the greatest long-term happiness.
You mean you’re happy now. You won’t be happy later. Under the FB/MLTR/OLTR model, you’re happy now and later.
Me too, only with more freedom and less unhappiness suffered than you.
Harry Flashman
Posted at 02:32 pm, 6th March 2017BD, I love your blog and the mountains of great advice. I have learned a great deal from you and had you confirm much of what I already believe. That said, I think you sometimes conflate what will bring you long term happiness with what will bring others long term happiness. For example, would knowing my girlfriend is sleeping with other men make me happy over the long term? Absolutely not. Would juggling multiple women make me happy? For a while after divorce, he’ll yeah it did! I had a blast. But is it a source of long term happiness? For me, no. I find that I am happiest in a stable relationship with an awesome woman. As long as my smoking hot sweetie rocks my world in bed, I’m a happy guy and not looking for outside satisfaction. Will it last forever? There are no guarantees, but that’s life. I hope it lasts for a very long time. I know exactly the amount of time and energy required to maintain a rotating pool of hotties. It’s a lot of fun, but exhausting and provides very short term happiness. As long as you truly enjoy the woman you are with in terms of great sex and low drama, I don’t see much point in banging other girls on the side, causing unnecessary jealousy on behalf of the girl you really love. It seems counterproductive. I will say this, however, it is certainly more difficult to maintain a hunter frame when you are no longer hunting for your meals.
theblurrrr
Posted at 02:56 pm, 6th March 2017After reading all of this discussion and attempting to distill some framework, it appears to me that this largely a matter of the conflict of Societal Programming versus the programming that nature wired into each of us for the purpose of reproducing a genetically diverse species.
Both men and women seem to have a pre-programmed desire to seek out diverse sexual partners; make a baby or two and then move on. But no one is willing to be honest with this assumption or themselves and how it affects their decisions.
The problem is that all the Societal Programming that is forced into each of us in varied amounts is not compatible with Nature’s Programming. From that point on, all the DRAMA ensues. Throw in Puberty, personality differences, differing shared experiences and the soup gets muddy very quickly.
I’m older now and am becoming more observational. I’ve been a beta most of my life and drank all the Kool-Aid that made or society what it now is. But as a get older, I care less about pleasing people and more about being absolutely HONEST with myself and others.
I’m 100% hetero and still like sex for the physical and mental aspects. Both kinds of programming have left me a bit outside the box of desireability. But instead of flailing in depression, I’m becoming more Alpha 2.0. More to come….
Gil Galad
Posted at 03:27 pm, 6th March 2017Just saying, that is incorrect. “Survival of the species” is largely a myth, and OBW does not have any wise purpose of species conservation: it is genes trying to get passed on (with some subtleties that don’t need mentioning here), often at the expense of the individual or the species.
That reminds me to say that, imo, serial monogamy being the default system for women may not tell the whole story: I’d argue that evolutionarily, it is in women’s interest to not *necessarily* dump a guy as soon as they get bored with him; to cheat occasionally but to be better at keeping it secret than men; and of course, to cultivate friendzoned orbiters, even and especially without consciously viewing them as potential mates.
JudoJohn
Posted at 04:05 pm, 6th March 2017Serial monogamy is the siren calling me to the rocks below.
As you said in a post I have bookmarked, BD, getting a monogamous girlfriend is one of the easiest things a guy can do. One MLTR and one FB is more of a chore, but also more conducive to long term happiness.
Serial monogamy remains tempting, because I know how to do it. But I have suffered from it enough. I suffered through years of unhappiness and drama in relationships that ultimately ended anyway. And now that my Unicorn is off to grad school, I am building my Frame while I should be out chasing women, because my skills are out of date (when I say skills I mean not just pick up skills but happy Alpha 2.0 living).
I don’t blame my Unicorn for moving on. She would have been a fool not to. But I’m hooked and I want more unicorns. They’re out there. I know they are. I will score them, too. But the idea of ramping up so hard, doing all the stuff I’m doing right now, to just get comfortable again in serial monogamy and watch it all fall away….fuck no.
I love the freedom I now have. I hate the idea of living with anyone at this point…..but that’s the road that you go down in serial monogamy. It is one of the answers to “Where is our relationships going?” And it’s a disaster waiting to happen.
During the ramp up to move my Unicorn out to grad school, I considered giving her everything except my clothes. The logic was, I could rent a room somewhere, or a fully furnished apartment, or even travel city to city for a while. At my age and with my emotional and financial resources, it would be trivial to “plug and play” with a decently good woman who has children. Instead, my Unicorn helped me set up a wicked bachelor pad, and I’m far happier with this set up….and I will guard it jealously.
Disclaimer: Yes, I know there are no unicorns, AWALT, etc. Still, I had a smokeshow 20 years younger than me on my arm for 4.5 years. I want nothing to do with the pressures and expectations of women my age (44). So, I’m building a fun lifestyle with parties and dancing and rock climbing and hiking and no I don’t want to meet your kids and no I’m not available Wednesday night and I’m not telling you why (or asking why you’re not).
Roger
Posted at 04:56 pm, 6th March 2017I can have sex 10 times a day (yes I’m essentially dry by that point, and achy and tired), but on the other hand I don’t mind if sex is once a week or less. Guess I get my highs from my missions. Infact after normal sex while she is sleeping it off (I do the cuddles) get up and work, I feel energized. If she wakes up and questions me, then I give her another “sleeping injection” and I get back to work.
I’m quite fit & healthy, 40 is nearing though.
She denies me sex, I laugh. “If thats what you want” – she knows I don’t care it will actually be to her disadvantage. I maintain a very strong alpha frame, if she kicks me out of bed I exclaim “Great!” She hates this and demands I get back into bed. All her tests & shitstorms only hurt her, I get a lot of respect.
As for the guy that is trying to breakup cleanly, well you put yourself in that mess. But move out ‘temporarily’ then gradually remove more and more of your stuff and reduce contact with her and her friends/family then one day when you are separated enough tell her calmly that it is over.
BD is correct in that the vast majority of men are soppy betas that are forced into monogamy (of any kind – they are suckers for any pussy at any dripfed rate – I’d go as far to label them as defacto virgins. However I guess they are victims of SP “this is how you get pussy, there is no other way known to humanity, every one thinks this, you will be labeled a weirdo if you think differently – you wouldn’t want that would you? So you must conform, blueballs is normal, she might fuck you this year it could be tonight.” gambling is addictive but the house is winning not you.
Many men get oneitis hard and BD’s solution is their only option. But for the rest of us serial monogamy is okay, it’s no more work than BD’s system, its very similar.
Have a mission or 3, maintain alpha frame, soft/hard nexts, do not put yourself in a position to receive terrible drama including and especially breakup drama.
I’m not sure why he is unwilling to conceed that his generalisations about monogamy do not necessarily encompass everyone. Perhaps it would challenge his whole business plan to admit that there is a viable alternative. Perhaps that is the same with his ASD (I love the way he hates slut shaming but uses it in one of his acronyms) he thinks its one thing when its not that simple. He could have a cognative bias also – not many successful serial monogamists around on his blog to give him balanced feedback.
I’m quite surprised that you won’t admit that men can go into serial monogamy with a strong alpha frame. Getting cheated on, breaking up or getting dumped does not have to be painful or unhappy. It’s no worse that you hard nexting a FB or even MLTR. Infact I look forward to the new relationship possibilities. You and others may suffer from severe oneitis and mono may just not be a viable option, but for some of us with an Alpha 3.0 frame its fine (there I said it!)
I have total freedom in my serial monogamy, don’t do anything I don’t want, I’m not her little lapdog, I’m the top dog. Perhaps you wouldn’t class it as serial monogamy any longer – fair enough. We’ll call it BD Serial Monogamy for Alpha 3.0’s with the ultimate super strong frame. ?
Mayrick Dubois
Posted at 06:11 pm, 6th March 2017BD, it blows my brains that most women want and participate in the serial monogamy midset. Why would anyone want to go through all that stress, drama, and nonsense of all those relationships one after another, over and over again? It’s crazy, illogical and stupid and I agree it will not bring happiness. Then again, many women are illogial, crazy and self induce their unhappiness by making stupid decisions. This is why throughout my life, most of my friends have been men. They are more fun, share many of the same interests as me, and I don’t have to deal with crazy drama and messes from their stupid decisions. I would rather follow the non monogamy model,; go out with many, have fun with them, and enjoy myself and not deal with all that negative nonsense. One part that really bothers me is the fact that many women are deceptive to men from the beginning and then just dump them without any regard for the man and his thoughts and feelings. It is cruel and inhuman to treat people like an object that you can just discard on a whim. Most men are very lovable and when they fall for a woman, they usually fall really hard. They deserve honesty and respect.
joelsuf
Posted at 07:07 pm, 6th March 2017aka being a closet homosexual. That’s what I’m seeing sex-negative MGTOW as. I’ve listened to some of their podcasts, and most of them sound very effeminate. I don’t care about it, but for them to say that they are “reclaiming masculinity” is a joke.
That being said, I wonder what BD would call what I do, which is just randomly casually date and have casual sex? Is that serial monogamy? Most of the chicks I go out with just become FBs but many of them are just a one night stand. It works for me.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 07:53 pm, 6th March 2017Thanks dude. Glad I could help. I was waiting for the “but…”
No, instead you are conflating what makes you happy now with what will make you long-term happy over the next 25+ years, as I will show in a minute. I am well aware that not all men will be happy with exactly how I live my life, but that doesn’t mean serial monogamy will make you long-term happy. It won’t. It can’t.
You’re trading the one negative of this system, that often doesn’t even happen (since many women you’ll be in these relationships with won’t fuck other guys), with the 12-14 positives of my system. Not a good trade.
Me too.
An OLTR or high-end MLTR.
Yep, the pro-monogamy argument I get all the time, just like the guy above: “Hey BD, I’m happy, therefore this works.” No, you’re happy now. You won’t be happy later. I’m talking about now and later, not just now.
You’re focused on the now. I’m focused on the next 25+ years of your life.
We don’t know how long it will last, but I do know with reasonable certainty that it will not last as long as you want it to last.
And when it ends, you will be unhappy.
Incorrect. Item #8 here, which says,
8. Having a bunch of open relationships is too much work.
Then don’t have a bunch. Have just one or two. One serious girlfriend and one friend-with-benefits on the side is all you need.
If having a rotating pool is “exhausting,” then don’t have a pool. Have two. Very easy.
I’ve already addressed all of these excuses folks, many times, and many years ago.
Again, focusing on the right now, instead of the long-term.
If you don’t mind the pain that will eventually come when she A) dumps you, or B) cheats on you, or C) starts cutting way back on the sex or D) starts giving you drama, then you are correct, it’s counterproductive. You go your way, I’ll go mine (and I’ll be happier in the long-term).
If you don’t like pain and enjoy long-term happiness instead, you must employ a different model, even if that model is a little more work in the initial stages, which I agree it is.
That’s exactly why monogamy tends to turn Alphas into betas. Yet another disadvantage of this system.
I will never be a beta. If you don’t believe me, just watch.
That’s exactly what women do, particularly the younger, hotter, more fertile ones.
Younger, hotter women always maintain a large portfolio of ex-boyfriends, guys they cheat with, and/or friendzone guys to always draw upon for WHEN they dump their current boyfriend or husband. (This admittedly becomes less true as a woman ages though.)
This is what YOUR hot girlfriend is doing while you’re serial monogamous to her, gentlemen. Sound good to you?
Correct. As several commenters have already noted, creating a new monogamous relationship is ridiculously easy, and is conducive to the lazy man or the man who views the world from a scarcity mindset. The FB/MLTR/OLTR model is more certainly a little more difficult and complicated in the earlier stages. This work is rewarded via a life of long-term, consistent happiness as compared to the monogamy-guy who keeps getting dumped and cheated on.
Good. Well done.
She’ll still dump you eventually.
I’ve seen many guys say this, and it’s purely theoretical advice. As just two examples, monogamous Alphas do not soft/hard next. They hate the concept. (And if you actually do, you are a microscopic exception to the rule.)
Maintaining an Alpha frame in a monogamous relationship is great, but it doesn’t prevent any of the problems I’ve outlined here except that it alleviates drama a somewhat during the NRE stage.
Certain aspects do encompass everyone. Your monogamous GF is going to break up with you eventually. You’re going to have drama eventually. She’ll cut back on the sex eventually (if the relationship lasts long enough). If she’s young and hot, the odds are high she’ll cheat on you. Etc. Yeah man, these things will happen to pretty much everyone who is monogamous, eventually, whether amazing badass Alpha or pathetic beta.
Again, you might tell me you don’t care as much as a beta or it won’t be as bad as with a beta, and that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean they won’t happen, and they won’t make you happy when they do.
ASD is not my acronym. It’s a PUA acronym that is commonly used in these circles and that I’m forced to use. I wish there was a better term for it.
And why do you think that is? Why aren’t there hordes of men batting down my doors with fantastic, happy, wonderful serial monogamy success stories (NO cheating ever, NO shitty breakups ever, virtually zero drama for YEARS, etc), and with specific techniques on how to replicate these successes? Doesn’t that tell you something?
Strawman. I’ve never said anything opposing this. Alpha Male 1.0’s get monogamous with an Alpha frame all the time. It alleviates some problems, but doesn’t solve the big ones.
Utterly incorrect. A next, even hard next for an FB or MLTR is no where near the negative feelings (if any!) as when a monogamous relationship ends. Not even close enough to compare.
Total freedom? In monogamy? Ha! Seriously dude, how old are you?
You can fuck all the other women you want?
Without hiding it?
You can text / email / contact all the other women you want without any fear that your mono-GF finds your phone or sees any of this stuff?
You can leave town for three weeks and not go without sex?
Etc.
You are not free.
Strawman again. I never said or even implied that a monogamous man was. Stop being so defensive.
I said you’re monogamous, and not as long-term happy as me. That’s it.
Yeah. Ask the guys leaving comments above you.
Yeah but a hell of a lot of men do that too. I’m not woman-basher and never have been. All the time, I call women out for the insane, irrational shit they pull… but I do the same to men whey they do the same (and they do).
To sum up…
Again I will repeat to you serial monogamy guys, if you’re just focused on the NOW, or perhaps the next six months, while I’m focused on the next 25+ years of your life. This is why you don’t see what I see (or perhaps don’t care).
JudoJohn
Posted at 07:59 pm, 6th March 2017Where do I sign up? Outside of the friendzone. I tolerate one, I took her virginity, and am comfortable in the (twice per month, 2 hours on the phone) friendzone.
Alex
Posted at 10:56 pm, 6th March 2017Thanks for the reply on sexual jealousy BD – that’s cleared everything up for me (And hopefully many others too!)
Vincent
Posted at 11:37 pm, 6th March 2017Perhaps due to selection bias. These people are not your target audience, and are probably not reading this blog or your books. Or maybe they wandered here, shook their heads, and left.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:25 am, 7th March 2017I’m not just talking about this blog, but beyond it. Monogamy is a very popular system… where are all the books, blogs, videos, courses, and proven techniques for How To Do Serial Monogamy For Men? How To Crush Serial Monogamy Like A Pro? Serial Monogamy for the Alpha Male? How To Dump Her First And Never Get Cheated On?
I don’t see any of this. Not many people (comparatively) use my system, but with all the millions upon millions of people attempting monogamy all over the world, we should be seeing this stuff all over the place… yet I don’t see anything like this, anywhere. And neither do you (beyond maybe a few fringe blog articles if you Google around long enough).
Doesn’t that tell you guys something? Or is your selection bias so strong that not seeing this anywhere doesn’t register that, just like I’m saying, perhaps serial monogamy doesn’t make men long-term happy?
The Dude
Posted at 01:03 am, 7th March 2017As BD touched on earlier in the comments, serial monogamy (or any kind of monogamy) turns alphas into betas. If you are relying on one girl as your only source for sex and she rejects you even for what seems like a legitimate reason (e.g., tired, headache, period etc), you will begin sub-communicating neediness and she will pick up on it and begin losing attraction for you (doesn’t matter how strong u think ur “alpha frame” is).
Conversely, having multiple sources of sex will maintain her attraction much longer (the likely end will be a LSNFTE which has little to nothing to do with losing attraction). Even if she doesn’t consciously know about the other girls – her subconscious will tell her she’s got competition because you won’t be giving off nearly as many neediness queues.
It’s basically subconscious pre selection (theory that women evolved to leverage other womens’ prior analysis of which men have high mate value by determining which men are getting laid and which ones aren’t). Consider that almost all of game/pua advice (i.e. outcome independence, confidence, cocky/funny, pass shit tests, abundance mentality, don’t be needy etc.) is designed to communicate that you are already getting laid by other women.
That leads to another huge problem with SM – when relationship ends. Not only are you going to have to start dating (i.e., trying to get laid) again with rusty seduction skills, but you’ll be doing it at a time while your’re not currently getting laid. Thus, with scarcity mentality and maximum neediness.
Final point – the main reason women like SM is that, as the pursued sex, they are in a position to passively field advances from other men and/or maintain a harem of friend-zone orbiters without it being considers cheating – and then branch swing accordingly should a better opportunity present himself… However, if the man actively pursues other women while in a relationship then most ppl would agree that it’s wrong – attempted cheating at a minimum. That dynamic is obviously a huge advantage for the girl if she can dump the current guy any time, while putting the man in a huge disadvantage… not to mention women have also evolved to cheat and get away with it much better than men so u probably will never find out about her cheating unless she wants you to.
Shanghai_Bobby
Posted at 01:24 am, 7th March 2017Heya BD,
Good article.
There however is an exception to making serial monogamy work, without affecting happiness levels, but it requires a few criteria to be met.
#1 – Regardless of what the girl does, he doesn’t really care, and if she crosses his boundaries, he just dumps her straight away and cuts all contact – they never move in together
#2 – As soon as he dumps his girl, he’s able to pick up a new one within a week
#3 – Sex 1 – 2 times per week is plenty for him. Sometimes he’s so busy being focused on his ultimate goal, that even basic human needs slip his mind for extended periods of time (sex included)
#4 – He’s way too busy working on stuff to be juggling more than one girl
#5 – For him, sex is just an outlet, and he doesn’t care much for lovey dovey feelings. His true passion is doing something meaningful – as long as he can do what he loves, it’s impossible for him to be happier
A practical and real life example of how this works is:
An Olympic athlete who works a full time job, due to lack of sponsorship. We have plenty of these in New Zealand. Their only free time is literally a few hours in the weekend. All other time is spent doing meal prep, training, and working. On the weekdays, they are exhausted when they come home from training – the last thing they feel like is sex.
On the weekend they don’t have work but they still train HARD. All they ever think about is their sport, and hence are too busy/too driven to fall in love.
Under this model, serial monogamy is perfect for the time poor/energy poor athlete, trying to win a medal without sponsorship, against pro-athletes.
The only minor difficulty is replacing a lost gf within a week. Having said this, it isn’t uncommon for them to not feel horny for up to a few weeks, due to how focused they are/how intense their training is.
K
Posted at 05:01 am, 7th March 2017Many experienced guys end up doing serial monogamy in the end. I do think it’s the best system.
I did the BD system for a couple of years, had hot girls on rotation, plenty of FBs, MLTRs both high end and low end, and even an OLTR for a while. Ultimately these women were dissatisfied, except maybe FBs, because you’re not giving them what all women crave — the feeling of “belonging” to a guy.
This is why girls will eventually dump or ghost you (LSNFTE) under the system. And true pair ponding is hard if not impossible as these women will never completely lower their guard emotionally with you.
The best system is serial “monogamy”. She’s your girl, you have a strong alpha frame and she’s very attracted to you. She knows in the back of her head that you have one night stands on occasion, and maybe even short affairs, but doesn’t care and actually her attraction to you increases because of it. As long as you’re discrete and she doesn’t know this logically it’s OK and makes the relationship stronger. Remember, she is a woman, things don’t have to make logical sense to her! What matters is how she feels, and you are giving her the attraction and mini drama spikes all women crave when she wonders what you’ve been up to. And she gets the comfort she craves by knowing she’s your girl.
With this type of relationship she will be super attracted to you, she probably won’t cheat on you, the sex and pair bonding will be incredible, and you can keep her around until you get tired of her in 2-5 years (when your body starts telling you to go find a new mate). Then you go date around, fuck/date 20 girls and make the best one of them your girlfriend. Continue to bang cute girls on the side discretely,. Rinse and repeat.
As an added bonus this system works well socially because it’s what society expects alphas to do anyway, and what alpha JFK types have been doing since the dawn of time. No one bats an eyelash, again as long as you’re discrete.
Just don’t go get legally married or anything.
K
Capitalist
Posted at 05:18 am, 7th March 2017Ok BD, I see your point. From the time of the breakup until the time I am having fun again with a new women is pretty rough. But I’m guessing you will be feeling some pain if/when you and Pink Firefly end your relationship.
So you’re saying that having your fb already going is going to make that much of a difference? Big enough difference to where you won’t be unhappy when things end with her?
I’m not trying to be difficult. I’m honestly just trying to form a plan for later. I’m pretty much living the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle except I do serial monogamy. I know, I know, not being monogamous is the most important aspect to it for you..
I am happy now. But I am aware the period following the relationship can be unpleasant. Regardless of who breaks up with who and for what reason.
Capitalist
Posted at 05:37 am, 7th March 2017I want to add that even though I’m in this relationship I am always willing to walk away at the drop of a hat. She is well aware of this. Just because I’m aware that it will be unpleasant for a while doesn’t mean I’m not willing to go there at any time if I need to. I maintain a willingness to let her go and walk away at anytime if I’m no longer happy or whatever else..
But maybe I will try it your way next time. I do want long term happiness. I do. Serial monogamy just seems easier and I enjoy having sex daily without the work.
Joanna
Posted at 06:00 am, 7th March 2017I cant understand why men defend serial monogamy? The emotional upheaval during any breakup is enough to disrupt your life significantly. Even if it’s amicable (which it rarely is) you will still feel some sadness and your ego will have taken a knocking, this WILL disrupt your life. Furthermore in my experience it’s the man who seem to take these break ups far worse than the woman does, since she has most likely planned it with her friends/family for weeks before the bomb got dropped on you (SURPRISE) This doesn’t make sense to knowingly put your self at risk like this. Remember as BD says woman are far more equipped for these ups and downs, we have friends who will bring us wine and listen to us cry until we feel better. Serial monogamy is looking to get your arse kicked. I don’t care who can site a ‘special case’ I have never seen it work longterm (without alot of strife) for both genders…Ever.
POB
Posted at 07:13 am, 7th March 2017So true! Could not agree more.
Are you reading this gents?
LOL, sooo true. Guys keep forgetting that after a break-up they will probably feel castrated by common friends, start to be socially outcasts for quite some time and treated like criminals by the government, specially if they don’t have a legally enforced prenup. And I’m not even mentioning kids, the house, having no place to stay, etc. To add injury to the insult even if you don’t do anything wrong, a break-up will be the man’s fault 99% of the time!
And guys talk about the “work” of having multiple relationships at the same time (SMH).
By the way, thx Joanna! In my opinion this is sure one of the best female comments on this blog.
Ol'Tex
Posted at 08:45 am, 7th March 2017Have to say I’m so happy to see BD and his input. I’m more likely to “pat the back” of any man (or woman) that can find a way to be successful and happy – happy makes me happy, and I consider that the best in life – celebrating success and happiness.
I think I ended up swallowing the entire “polyamory” pill along with the typical “red pill” stuff. Have to thank BD for actually adding to that and helping me get over my social programming and moving to a more happy life. Monogamy, never again.
I really do think that, at least men like myself, are actually capable of having “real” relationships and love with many women. I may quibble with the terms and definitions BD uses but in the end it does not matter, I have multiple women in my life that actually and literally cannot wait to have (sometimes very kinky) sex with me when I can get to them.
I think I end up always with far more lovers than I likely should, so just say sex is my relaxation hobby. As (very early) 50’s man I could easily be happy with sex daily, and can indefinitely provide “services” twice a day (three to five a day if I get a day of rest). I have for two years now, keep a mixed hard/soft harem of at least five MLTRs and up to as many as thirteen (including FBs). Doesn’t hurt that I have peculiar tastes and am basically that old meme “traveling salesman” and have my partners always host at their homes. I cracked OKCupid for my targets and have developed a merciless ASD ability that I can keep my “dance card” full every week. I encourage all of them to find other lovers, happy is what happy does, ignore jealousy and social programming and “share the love” the poly people call it compersion.
Changing from a fat-ass to fit by busting it in the gym has also immensely widened my choices in the wild.
Joanna
Posted at 09:41 am, 7th March 2017@POB Lol its the truth and I’ve seen this model destroy lives…literally. A friend of mine killed himself over a failed marriage and he was very smart and had the rug pulled out from under him. What a waste of a brain. Men rarely have a ‘safe space’ to show how hurt they are and amidst having their egos and masculinity destroyed in public they must also contend with being shamed a heartless cunt. The laws in my country are abit different since cohabitation laws don’t apply, there’s no ailomy after divorce, good luck enforcing child support hahaha. Women here are literally on their own if they leave a marriage unless they can afford advocates or married some super rich businessman that needs to retain his reputation in order to continue operating. Our constitution is very egalitarian and the men have the same rights as women technically but there are always exceptions to the rule. Men here normally willingly hand over assets to save face with their peers…eg ‘Good show my boy’ shout the men and ‘Oh what a man’ scream the women!!!!! He walks away poorer but still accepted by the wolf pack. He can now go drink in peace at the bar with all the other sad sods. Delightful.
Jarod
Posted at 10:32 am, 7th March 2017So the non-monogamous man accepts the fact that the woman he is with is or may be having sex with other guys at any given time. He has had to reach a place in his mind where he suppresses his natural jealously and does his best to accept it.
Why can’t a serial monogamist approach a relationship with the same attitude. He knows it will end and that he will then go out and get a new one? Why does it have to hurt him so badly when she cheats if he knows this is the way of the world? It seems he is just going to deal with her cheating once whereas the non-monogamous man must deal with it throughout his relationship.
It seems to me it is more about the man’s perspective (which this blog guides), than it is about which approach a man chooses to take.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:12 am, 7th March 2017And my point is I almost never, or literally never, see a man do all those things you listed while monogamous. Even your own example wasn’t doing that you were saying.
You’re living in a hypothetical world. I live in the real world.
Many experienced guys get monogamous traditionally married too. Doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.
Correct, but 94% of them come back, so there is no real loss.
Utterly wrong. There are thousands of long-term pair-bonded guys who read this blog (OLTR). Including me.
1. You’re endorsing cheating, which I already stated above in the article was a very bad idea and gave my reasons, as well as many other times on this blog.
2. I’d love to see all these monogamous women who “don’t care” if you cheat on them. Yes, they’ll care. They may stay with you, but they’ll care (drama, resentment, distrust, etc).
Correct.
In an FB or MLTR, there is no pain. In an OLTR, sure, you’ll feel some pain when the relationship ends, assuming the relationship was a serious and long one (and not all OLTRs are long or serious). It still won’t be as much as monogamy though; when that woman was your only source of sex and female energy/whatever, the loss is greater.
Yes. Your frame will be such that 100% of all your feminine “benefits” won’t be, or ever need to be coming from just. one. woman. Your entire mental attitude about scarcity and independence changes.
Try it, and you’ll see what I mean. The emotional / mental benefits are more than you think.
Incorrect. People misquote that all the time. No, monogamy is not the most important aspect of the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle; financial diversification and financial freedom is. Nonmonogamy is a critical part though, yes.
I rest my case.
Most don’t, which is my point.
The few that do are usually one or more of the following:
1. Jealous
2. Lazy
3. Controlling (Alpha Male 1.0)
The problem is none of those three traits are conducive to long-term happiness.
Correct. This is factual and has been confirmed in studies, some of which I’ve quoted on this blog.
He can. But he will still incur all or most of the problems with serial monogamy I’ve laid out here.
He’ll still be upset when it happens. He’ll still go without sex (for a while) when it happens. He’ll (likely) still incur drama in the relationship before it happens. Etc.
Your attitude about the blood that squirts out when you get stabbed with the knife doesn’t make the blood not flow.
Because logic doesn’t fix emotions like that, and you know it.
A monogamous Alpha gets cheated on by his girlfriend, and he feels angry and/or hurt and/or disrespected, and you come along and say, “Don’t worry man. This is how women are are in the real world. It’s the way of the word.” The he instantly cheers up and says, “Oh yeah! Cool! I’m not mad anymore. Thanks dude! Life is great! Being single is awesome!”
Uh, no.
As so many of you guys are doing in these comments, you’re responding to my real world points with hypotheticals that you’ve never seen happen.
E.S.
Posted at 11:59 am, 7th March 2017Thank you. Nothing gives me piece of mind for the am2.0 lifestyle like when I read posts like this and tell a girl I can’t be exclusive
skills
Posted at 01:19 pm, 7th March 2017This is a very black and white view… Most Players go through a rotation of women, so basically a bunch of fbs, or mltrs with fb, soon they start pair bonding with one of the girls (exhibit bd with his new oltr that was a fb)…
The serial monogamy players that i have seen fall into 3 places:
1.- stages of fucking a lot of fbs and then taking a bit of a break, go mono, break up and rinse wash repeat….(teevester used to do this)
2.- or serious monogamist that pair bond, enjoy the ride and little by little break up (such as a dude called pure evil).http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?13278-The-Serial-Monogamy-Lifestyle-Riding-the-Pair-Bond-Rush
3.- mono players that cheat and the girl looks the other way….
I have done all models including the one that op advocates… When you break up with a pair bonded girl in my experience it hurts just the same not matter what the set up is… I hurt as much in a mono, as i hurt as much in the poly, as i hurt as much cheating even if i have access to other vagina… as tyler says we do not lack women we lack emotions… And is not like the fb and mltrs do not have feelings for you, is just that usually is not even in the same ballpark as the feelings you have for a pair bonded girl…
Now in fairness the ONLY difference i have notice which is the ego, my ego does get a bit more bruise if i was in a mono(look the other way), and the girl when the relationship is dying “cheats”, that does sting a bit deeper. But it also helps to get over faster, so i dunno…
Everybody is different and everybody should adopt the model that makes them happy at the point of time… What makes bd happy is not what makes joedoe happy…
I have also used monogamy as a tool in periods of heavy mission focus, were i need more attention devoted for mission projects or developing system and as said here you get “lazy” i would call it more “focus” on other things…
I have been as happy or happier in some mono or “mono” than in some poly set ups… it all depends of circumstances and life stages…
Roger
Posted at 03:18 pm, 7th March 2017There are probably quite a few doing serial monogamy and they are happy and will never arrive here.
For the vast majority they are doing serial monogamy wrong – marriage, moving in together sharing her friends.
Her friends will NEVER be yours (occaisionally you might get 1 that remains friendly).
Women do serial monogamy much better than men – they line up guys that will be their next boyfriend. You can do this too.
She will be jealous, you just need a strong frame.
Also all the drama and emotions that come from serial monogamy – women love it, inside of a woman is a whole lot of glasses and each one is for a different emotion and each one needs to be emptied by you or someone else – she will want to feel angry, sometimes you need to be the one to piss her off. She will thank you for it (not literally), you can just do something silly or annoying to anger her. BD has talked about this – go read the archive.
Also she will get jealous of your mission(s) – she wants you to spend time with her. BD has discussed this too.
So having cute girls that you know (but are not friendzoned) around is something she’ll get used to “I’m with you not her, but if you make my life hell and want me to become a hermit, then I could verywell end up with her!”
You can also point out her male friends or coworkers. Do these things and keep your frame.
I also say that “I do not cheat” so I ad that in too.
I am exceptional in that respect and not having a desperate need for sex the way others might.
As for going without sex, I’m good looking so that helps, and I have a secret weapon – guitar & singing ?
But too my disadvantage I’m picky (and not even on looks).
Because I can survive without sex it helps my frame when seeking fresh meat. I’m not sure how I could help higher sex drive men with this. Focusing on your mission, once a week masturbation (with no visual stimulation aka porn). Or just BD’s system in one fashion or another.
Roger
Posted at 03:33 pm, 7th March 2017I do enjoy being close and affectionate with my girls.
And most men are not prepared for the breakup, it must be in your mind. Relationships are temporary things.
Sometimes they dont go beyond months of NRE.
Watch for the signs she gives you to avoid her breakup bomb.
You should be able to recognise the signs that she is losing interest. She will keep leading you on – she doesn’t want to destroy her comfort shelter until she’s certain the new guy is worthy, or until she is finally totally sick of you. BD has talked about this too, in the beginning she did care for you, she did love you. Women have a massive amount of SP fantasy bullshit, but if marriage/onelove etc were real there would only be one romance novel in the world and it would be called the Romance Bible. The reality is womens porn aka romance novels are a billion dollar industry, and women crave a new romance, the same way men crave that new hotty. Sometimes women will change their hair & looks to keep themselves competitive and attractive, you can do this too, but at the end of the day when you see Brad Pitt acting, it becomes the same film, it gets a little less believable and real.
Sorry for my messing posting I’m stuck on mobile at moment and quoting etc is a bitch.
Shanghai_Bobby
Posted at 05:17 pm, 7th March 2017BD,
Would you mind clarifying how I live in the hypothetical world? The example I gave is a real world example of people I know.
I train closely with these athletes and we regularly share ideas/exchange thoughts. They regularly do the things which I have listed.
Perhaps you’re associating with men who aren’t overly passionate about something, and just want to get by comfortably?
Marty
Posted at 05:44 pm, 7th March 2017For me its all about the Drama. I’m only on my first ever non-monogamous relationship (live in OLTR). I don’t even have FB’s on the side as we are swinging. But I’ve made it pretty clear if I don’t get enough sex with other girls I’m going to get some FB’s (keeps the pressure on for her to find other girls for us). I’ve held a very strong frame on this. The thing I notice the most is that it seems to really help stop her when she is temped to up the drama over things. Eg. I want to do something she doesn’t particularly like or she feels she’s not getting enough attention. Her favorite drama is to sulk. If she does, I soft next by going out by myself and withdrawing all attention. She knows if I go out by myself I’m probably going to practice my approaching skills.
I can just tell, if we were monogamous she would feel way too comfortable and I would be getting all sorts of drama over every little thing she didn’t like or even just because she enjoys the attention of causing drama.
She is very young, I don’t expect us to last lots and lots of years and I also expect to be the one who will finally break it off. I don’t expect sex to ever be an issue either. But I couldn’t deal with the extra drama if we were monogamous.
I’ve only had two other long term relationships when I was more Alpha 1. 20 years married and 3.5 years live in GF. I ended both those. But the drama during them was off the hook. Especially the GF. The GF was supposed to be non-monogamous as well. But it started before I read anything about game or found anything like BD. So I let her control a lot of the frame for the rules around it (she didn’t want it to be non-monogamous but reluctantly agreed to get me into the relationship with her). That should be a special class of non-monogamy only recommended for guys who like nuclear levels of drama! 🙂
Caleb Jones
Posted at 07:36 pm, 7th March 2017Your own examples couldn’t find a new girl to fuck in one week, which is one of your theoretical parameters, either because they don’t know how or because they’re too busy. Your own example doesn’t match what you’re saying.
BTW, that’s another issue with the “too busy” excuse. As I said above, have one girl and one more girl on the side you see sporadically. That’s like 1.5 girls; that doesn’t take a bunch of “juggling” time.
If your answer is you’re “too busy,” then you’ll be “too busy” to go out and quickly get a new girl to fuck when your mono-GF dumps you.
Whenever someone gives me the “too busy” excuse, they’re just shooting themselves in the face.
Correct.
The unspoken response, that you’ll never hear from men who like serial monogamy, is that they don’t really mind the drama (and the unhappiness that comes with it).
ForeverAnonymous
Posted at 10:26 pm, 7th March 2017BD have you ever elaborated on how you got over your programming of sexual jealousy. I think that’s a big sticking point for anyone wanting to live alpha 2.0 lifestyle. The feeling of knowing your woman is fucking someone else or in any way not making you her top time related priority is just viscerally unpleasant.
Just curious how you dealt with this from a practical standpoint (eg. is it just about mentally conditioning yourself or something else). Especially when it’s someone you really really like and care about/want to spend money on.
Vincent
Posted at 12:11 am, 8th March 2017I think you don’t see a lot of people advocating the “serial monogamy” because the fact that it’s “serial” is the elephant in the room.
It’s interesting that KryptoKate is so open about it, but I really think that most people who enter into a new relationship honestly believe (or make themselves believe) that it’s forever.
Deep down, I guess most people know it’s not, but I think this is a huge taboo.
This is SP of course. All fairy tales end with “and they lived happily ever after”, not with “and eventually the princess got bored with the prince who saved her from the dragon, and after three years stopped having sex with him.”
I think people desperately want to believe, which explains them willingly entering into a non-prenup marriage, gathering many friends and family as “witnesses”, and making “vows”.
I started seeing marriage as “just another contract“, which only means that either party can’t unilaterally change things without a discussion on the terms. Just like with a job contract: You’re not promising me that you’ll work for me forever, we’re just writing down that I’ll let you know plenty in advance how things are going with the company and whether your job is in danger, and likewise when you get tired of the job you’ll notify me a month or so in advance that you’re going to quit, and help transition the work to whoever follows you up. It means you can’t decide to not show up on Fridays when the contract specifies 40 hours, unless we sit down and negotiate about that first. And in reverse, that I can’t ask you to put in three weekends on a row unless we talk about the compensation for that.
I’m surprised that the sentiment regarding marriage is not more like that in the US, where job contracts are way more “flexible” than over here in Europe for instance.
When I bring this up to other people (especially women) when they bring up marriage, they stare at me and tell me I’m the most unromantic guy they’ve ever met. Until I tell them that they’re the ones who started talking about contracts (which marriage is), and that it’s unromantic of them to require things being written down with witnesses present.
hey hey
Posted at 02:15 am, 8th March 2017No with men it’s different. I know few men who do serial monogamy consciously. Consciously as in they don’t want to get married again and they “know” women so they go on about it strategically. Serial monogamist men are usually experienced alphas as a beta cannot pull this off regularly and consciously. These men(I’m talking about middled age men not young ones who play around) once their current gf leaves them, they go to a sugar daddy site, dangle their money and they get a new toy. This happens in a matter of few weeks. They don’t cry about the woman as in the Disney relationship. They just move on. BUT if they find the “one” and get oneitis the relationship progresses to a Disney and THEN they believe that it will be forever. That’s the problem.
Overall that’s how a serial monogamist relationship usually starts. Man just dangles the money to get a new girl(either online or on expensive dates). He does this in order to introduce a new girl as his gf and get the sex. Everything is very good at the beginning, but he knows this will fade as the time goes by. He cares mostly about the sex and the frequency. If this fades then he will slowly fade from her life by not giving her attention or the woman will get angry at him before that and he will leave him.
IF the woman starts with “I don’t want you to spend money on me, I want you for who you are” etc. then he gets oneitis. But this is rare. Most of the girls just get to spend time with him, have fun until they get bored or angry. He gets to introduce this hot new gf to his surrounding, have awesome sex and then repeat with a new girl.
But I can’t see how this is better than a non monogamous relationship, no competition actually. They get to spend a lot of money, have regular drama(even if they are laughing at it) and they will get oneitis as this system encourages oneitis eventually. They just don’t have the mentality to have 2-3 girls simultaneously. Too much SP in their head.
Kevin Velasco
Posted at 06:05 am, 8th March 2017Searching “nasa couple one way trip” brings up interesting articles…
So is it better to be an Alpha Male 2.0 or a Monogamous Astronaut™?
POB
Posted at 07:57 am, 8th March 2017Lots and lots of wishful thinking on this thread.
If you’re a man and have at least some Alpha traits, every arrangement you make that involves giving up your sexual freedom (or lying to your girl) will make you unhappy after a while.
To “get some on the side” is lying (cheating breaks the “mono” aspect, remember?). Or are you going straight up to your gf and say: “Honey, I’m going out now to get my cock sucked by a hot 21 yo blondie that I met last week on tinder, ooook? Do you need anything else? Cause I can pick it up on my way back :)”.
Also to do swing clubs or parties is to give up the sexual keys of the relationship to the woman if you’re mono. How does that make you happy?
I still can’t understand that fixation to promise sexual exclusivity, either to enforce it or break it. In my book you cannot love anyone if you’re not happy and free, so it’s much easier to behave congruently and stay on course with who you are than try to “hack” a system with an obsolete design, a lot of downsides and no advantages to us men.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:18 am, 8th March 2017My book, chapter 12, section 10.
Yep, which is yet another reason why serial monogamy isn’t a good system. There is no self-delusion with nonmonogamy, even if it’s an OLTR.
Please stop posting weird, off-topic comments in my threads. Thanks.
There always is when people defend monogamy. Monogamy is mostly based on emotions, theory, and hope, not reality.
Correct. Being Alpha will help monogamy and will indeed make it less bad, I’ve said that many times before, but it won’t take the negatives away; they’ll still be there.
Brick
Posted at 01:04 pm, 8th March 2017Great post.
I’ve been lurking here for almost a year and finally started applying your philosophy to my latest plate, since she’s hot off a divorce and was upfront about her multiple lovers.
The sex is fantastic, and the time together is very special without any fake/forced nonsense. My only complaint is she insisted on oversharing about her other lovers a bit early (grrrl power display?), and it was a bit of a turnoff initially. I read this as a basic shit test and dumped after 2 romps, but we like each other so things keep happening, and anyway, how to you break up with someone with whom are aren’t really”with” in the old, “normal” sense?
I had to put away some fears about being a “beta cuck” which wasn’t too hard because she talks about us having 3 ways and picking up lovers together in the future. I still have my other things going on, and don’t feel a bit of jealousy or possessiveness, though I get to play the cave man role when we’re together.
I’m sold on this model for relationships. Honestly I thought maybe this approach was just some new type of “Bro showing off” thing, but it’s really practical for keeping one’s sanity, sex life, and testosterone at the max.
Recently her and I laughed about the realities of monogamy, and how serial monogamy is just a socially acceptable, serial form of polygamy. It was a refreshing conversation to have with a woman.
Brick
Posted at 01:52 pm, 8th March 2017Can anyone tell me again the rewards for being a “good” boyfriend?
I looked through my breakup memories, and the relationships where I was a better partner (never cheated, good listener, considerate) ended as painfully and inconveniently as the ones where I was fooling around and being the so-called “toxic male”.
What is the incentive for “good boyfriend behavior” in serial monogamy – as opposed to loutish cynical threats of “nexting” – if the result is always the same? In my case, the women I treated the very best were the ones who completely disappeared from my life, so it’s not like any lifetime friendships were preserved through a thoughtful decoupling. I tried to maintain actual, non beta friendships with a couple of them before I went full red pill and it’s just a waste of time.
No more old fashioned monogamy for me. Life is too short.
I’ve really come around to BD’s model and am looking forward to the rest of 2017 and beyond.
Dionysus
Posted at 02:25 pm, 8th March 2017Brick,
Can you go into more detail into how maintaining non-beta friendships with your ex’s is a waste of time? I’m going through a divorce now and she wants to be “friends” at least for the sake of the kid. Kid aside, I am torn between playing that friendship game in hopes of at least rekindling a sexual relationship with her in the future vs just playing my distance to avoid platonic friendzone. Based on BD’s writings, I suspect the latter is the better option. Thanks.
Brick
Posted at 02:44 pm, 8th March 2017@Dionysus
“Can you go into more detail into how maintaining non-beta friendships with your ex’s is a waste of time? I’m going through a divorce now and she wants to be “friends” at least for the sake of the kid. Kid aside, I am torn between playing that friendship game in hopes of at least rekindling a sexual relationship with her in the future vs just playing my distance to avoid platonic friendzone. Based on BD’s writings, I suspect the latter is the better option. Thanks.”
It was a waste of time because they didn’t care to remain in contact, so essentially, I just felt like a beta dope for even trying; but I imagine the dynamic would be quite different for a dissolving marriage. The last breakup (and relationship) was post red pill, and I still made the stupid mistake of listening to her instead of watching her. She had distanced herself for quite a while. Who distances themselves from their real friends?
I have known a few older men who stayed friendly with their ex wives and probably still sleep with them, but this didn’t happen for my Gen X friends who divorced in the last 5 years or less. The platonic friendzone is a hell that I’ve seen several friends fall into. No thanks!
The one ex from a monogamous relationship where we sexed post breakup – and the post breakup sex was very intense – was one where she initiated the breakup because she wanted kids and I wasn’t interested. I never got clingy or depressed and so she didn’t feel emotionally burdened or guilted during our post-breakup time together. I was accidentally playing ti right because i was spinning plates though still pretty blue pill. Nothing to offer except be like Fonzie.
Sorry to hear about your divorce *really*. Best of luck.
Joe K
Posted at 03:07 pm, 8th March 2017@BD – this piece is a doozy. Can’t even find something to constructively criticize. Bravo.
@The Dude – “Final point – the main reason women like SM is that, as the pursued sex, they are in a position to passively field advances from other men and/or maintain a harem of friend-zone orbiters without it being considers cheating – and then branch swing accordingly should a better opportunity present himself… However, if the man actively pursues other women while in a relationship then most ppl would agree that it’s wrong – attempted cheating at a minimum.”
{BUMP} THIS OBSERVATION. Unless she is butt ugly, 100% of your girlfriends and wives are operating this way. And guys, you will be considered ‘sleazy’ at best in your vanilla monogamous circles if you attempt to replicate the male version of this, which would be regularly and proactively flirting with – essentially – prospects of your own creation.
@Joanna – “Furthermore in my experience it’s the man who seem to take these break ups far worse than the woman does, since she has most likely planned it with her friends/family for weeks before the bomb got dropped on you (SURPRISE) This doesn’t make sense to knowingly put your self at risk like this. Remember as BD says woman are far more equipped for these ups and downs, we have friends who will bring us wine and listen to us cry until we feel better…its the truth and I’ve seen this model destroy lives…literally. A friend of mine killed himself over a failed marriage and he was very smart and had the rug pulled out from under him. What a waste of a brain. Men rarely have a ‘safe space’ to show how hurt they are and amidst having their egos and masculinity destroyed in public they must also contend with being shamed a heartless cunt.”
{BUMP} THIS OBSERVATION (and coming from a woman)
Guys, nobody will ever give a fuck about your anger when (not if) she cheats on you. But it’s worse than that, people will actively avoid you *because* you are angry – and you didn’t even do anything wrong! A woman being angry over a breakup almost entitles her to bottomless bitching sessions with her close female friends and family members. You will just be mocked, scorned, a pariah for simply feeling those natural and unavoidable feelings.
@Brick – “Can anyone tell me again the rewards for being a “good” boyfriend?”
There are no rewards. There are, however, almost infinite potential punishments.
I guess I was one of those “microscopic” number of (formerly) monogamous fellows who DID employ the soft-next whenever necessary. I never mate-guarded or exhibited the ‘Alpha 1.0’ traits of attempted forcible control over her. And guess what? She eventually cheated slightly past the 3-year mark. I could beat myself up endlessly looking back and wondering ‘what the fuck did I do WRONG that caused this?’ but at the end of the day, that yields no answers. Or, the answer is that I ALWAYS wanted to cheat but never did, practicing blue-ball self-control/honoring my promise/blah blah blah from day 1 – while she did not even want to cheat UNTIL several years in, and once she wanted to…well, what’s ‘honor’ or ‘integrity’ to a woman? Those concepts have become a modern day scam intended to fuck you over, because you’ll adhere to them – while she absolutely could not give a shit about adhering to them herself…
It’s that simple, folks! Wait…that’s the modality that you WANT? Do you see that she’s playing you for a fool? Is that the best you can do?
It is so fuckin’ easy for any guy who’s not at the bottom of the barrel to get a monogamous girlfriend. Girls actually have much lower entry-level standards in many respects for guys who are willing to ‘girlfriend them up’. So you’re essentially saying ‘I want serial monogamy because I believe myself to be of a lower caliber where this is the best I can hope to do – putting myself in her optimal dating/relationship modality of choice and thereby settling for whatever that temporarily yields me.
Speaking for myself, I’ve dealt with a lot of actual, real misogyny and hatred of women – as I realized that they basically are all cheaters, who virtually all have experiences in their past while in ‘monogamous’ relationships that ‘didn’t count’ – and they’ll lie about it to prospective/future boyfriends and husbands until the day they die. In accepting that this is simply the way things are, and swearing off any possibility for myself to be monogamous ever again, I learned to let go of the hate…but only by essentially replacing that bitterness and anger with a genuine appreciation of the one incredibly valuable thing that women actually do offer me – sex.
I say – treat them as well as you can, give them the range of emotions and be considerate of theirs to a point….but at the end of the day, they’re for sexual fun and nonexclusive pair-bonding – and everything will begin to go to hell the moment you resort to the slavery of monogamy.
Brick
Posted at 03:26 pm, 8th March 2017@Joe K
No small part of “red pill rage” is due to the double standard allowing women to court new prospects during the tail of end of a relationship – and getting all kinds of sympathy from their friends n family – while men are considered scum for getting some needed side tail or spinning new plates in secret. Your name gets trashed and you’re the “horny dirtbag” while she goes on to her next NRE with blessings from Dad.
Women are allowed to rationalize almost every behavior short of criminality, whereas men are held to ridiculous moral standards from 20th century courting and marriage practices. In the end, it’s the shameless hypocrisy that pushed me past the point of no return with red pill thinking, though like you, I no longer feel anger and actually enjoy my time with women much more and feel more kindly towards them.
The blue pill guys are suicides (or worse) waiting to happen in this society.
Duke
Posted at 03:32 pm, 8th March 2017All I can say is serial monogamy just got murdered.
Brick
Posted at 03:45 pm, 8th March 2017@Joe K
“I guess I was one of those “microscopic” number of (formerly) monogamous fellows who DID employ the soft-next whenever necessary. I never mate-guarded or exhibited the ‘Alpha 1.0’ traits of attempted forcible control over her. And guess what? She eventually cheated slightly past the 3-year mark. I could beat myself up endlessly looking back and wondering ‘what the fuck did I do WRONG that caused this?’ but at the end of the day, that yields no answers. Or, the answer is that I ALWAYS wanted to cheat but never did, practicing blue-ball self-control/honoring my promise/blah blah blah from day 1 – while she did not even want to cheat UNTIL several years in, and once she wanted to…well, what’s ‘honor’ or ‘integrity’ to a woman? Those concepts have become a modern day scam intended to fuck you over, because you’ll adhere to them – while she absolutely could not give a shit about adhering to them herself…
It’s that simple, folks! Wait…that’s the modality that you WANT? Do you see that she’s playing you for a fool? Is that the best you can do?”
I used to bash the polyamory scene, but rest assured, the stereotype of a bunch of gamer geek fattie neckbeard incels clumping (humping?) together is totally untrue. I’ve met 3 very sexy women in the lifestyle and I’m warming to it.
“Come in” she says, “the water’s fine.”
And why not?
Serial monogamy is just polyamory for squares with much more dishonesty and drama. It’s not really any cleaner or safer, and doesn’t seem to offer any security. All the “she’s mine” crap in monogamy is an illusion. It’s religion.
If marriage is dead, then serial monogamy (aka mini marriage) is also dead. So falls Wichita Falls.
KryptoKate
Posted at 06:53 pm, 8th March 2017OK, I was all set to argue with you about serial monogamy not being that bad. But then I realized that the article was linked to my previous answers about serial monogamy, so obviously no one is going to listen to me promote it now, lol.
Then I went back and read that linked article again and remembered what it was like to be stuck in a sexually dead relationship…I’d started to forget. Ug I hope I’m never in that situation again but I’m sure I will be. It really is true that complacency is incredibly hard to withstand. With anything, not just romantic relationships.
Anyway, I still want to say that I think serial monogamy does not have to be particularly painful so long as one’s expectations are aligned with reality, and the man is socially proficient. Honestly, a break-up doesn’t have to be that bad…people don’t like change and always overreact to it, but people are adaptable and get over things quickly, most of the time. A lot of suffering is due to the failure of reality to live up to false expectations, rather than the actual terribleness of reality.
Also, a lot of us ARE lazy. Or as I like to say, energy-efficient. 🙂 It’s not the worst thing in the world to be.
I do think that men who are less “guys guy” types have an easier time of breakups. Because they often have better social skills and plenty of friends and oftentimes they even have their own orbiters/backup women. Guys like that also often can stay friends with their ex. But that’s a type of guy who is perhaps a bit more “psychologically androgynous” (and I mean that with respect to their ability to easily relate to both men and women mentally, I do NOT mean with their sexual attraction, I am only talking about straight guys here). But for your man-typical guy-guy, they do for whatever reason seem to have a very hard time getting over a break-up…even if the break up occurred because they were the ones who were cheating and got caught.
For whatever reason, most women do not sustain romantic or sexual interest in their ex after the relationship is over. Even if she’s the one who gets dumped by the guy, she will eventually get over it and a few months or a year later will be amazed and slightly grossed out by the idea of ever liking the guy. Maybe that’s an emotionally protective response, but it’s my observation…I can’t think of any women who I have ever heard say they’re “still in love” with someone they’ve been decisively broken up with for more than a year. But I’ve heard multiple men say that.
I’m not sure why that would be. It seems like getting emotionally stuck that way is maladaptive. I swear my dad is still somewhat mad at my mom and in love with the old idea of her, even though they divorced three decades ago and he’s been re-married for 25 and he thinks she’s an old lady now. But I can tell there’s still some part of him that remembers and romanticizes the beautiful woman she used to be and still loves that idea of her….he talks about her all the time still. I don’t know why that would be, he’s a total Alpha 1 arrogant asshole guy. Maybe for men it’s just a sense of ownership and always being bitter about what he thought was “his”, in a property sense. Perhaps women don’t feel the same sense of ownership over men so they don’t have the same lasting sense of indignant dispossession when they lose what’s “theirs”. I’m leaning towards that theory. Women aren’t as territorial or likely to feel entitled to jobs or property either, though they certainly feel that way about their kids and are likely to react with lifelong hurt, anger, and bitterness if their child rejects them in the same way a man does about his woman. Hm.
Also, wrt to Brick and JoeK’s comments about the double standard between men and women cheating or looking around in a monogamous relationship…I agree with you that there is a double standard. However, that is because everyone falsely believes that women are not sexual creatures driven by primal sexual urges — including women themselves!! Everyone is taught their whole lives that men are sexual pigs who should not be trusted with their own sex drive and who can just barely control themselves. But they are not taught this about women even though it is just as true (it’s just that their sexual instincts play out a little differently).
So no one expects women to do those things, or even really thinks women are capable of behaving in such primal, animalistic ways. So then when it happen, everyone assumes there MUST be some other explanation…like she was being neglected or abused or he deserved it somehow. Women themselves believe this, it is not deception in most cases, it is ignorance and illusions. It does not occur to women to try to “control” their base urges because no one ever told them they might have those urges in the first place, or that they should be controlled.
No one ever teaches women “hey, if some guy gets sexually aggressive with you, your body will probably strongly respond by getting sexually aroused, and if you don’t know him that well it will be even more so because your body will perceive him as very sexually confident, and that will happen even if you don’t particularly like him as a person or even if you have a loving partner you care about. So expect it to happen and learn to control it as it isn’t in your best interest to follow every sexual response your body has…only enough blood to run your brain or your pussy but not both!” No one ever says anything even remotely like that to women. Instead all they ever hear about is how they need to watch out for dangerous, rapacious, sexually out-of-control men. So women do NOT expect to have their own out-of-control strong sexual instincts, and when it happens they think it must be fate or true love or an alignment on the stars or something. Why else would they have had sex with a guy other than because they’re meant to be together??? No one ever explains to them how their basic biology and reproductive system works or that their body wants them to be impregnated by a dominant, aggressive male even if their mind and society tell them they DON’T want that. Seriously. Most women have no idea how they work. Maybe if a woman is an overly-cerebral, overly-analytical, fact-obsessed nerd like me, then they will eventually use logic and reality-testing to deduce the truth, but most will not because it goes against everything they’ve ever been taught their entire lives. Perhaps we need to fundamentally reform sexual education in this country.
And while I agree that the double standard in sexual accountability is unfair, it is also the fault of people who WANT to believe that women are naturally chaste and thus actively peddle those illusions. Who are those peddlers? Look to parents, religious figures, advertisers, those who sell illusions for a living. I don’t know why you’re so mad at women when they’ve been peddled the illusion just as much. Most women would be very happy if society accepted their sexual nature, that’s what feminists have said all along. But there are plenty of conservatives, religious people, parents, and people of all stripes who would loudly and strenuously object to the notion that women have dark, primal, out of control sexual urges similar in power (though not frequency) to men. Then there are others who make a nice profit peddling fantasies. But you can’t sell a Disney fantasy illusion to someone unless they really want for it to be true.
KryptoKate
Posted at 07:07 pm, 8th March 2017Also, BD, just saw this NYT article, reflecting what you’ve said for a while: https://nyti.ms/2mF8tMz
All Americans are having less sex, but it’s married couples who are dragging down the average more than anyone else. Lol.
Duke
Posted at 07:45 pm, 8th March 2017Did you mean illusions or delusions? They have similar meanings. http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-delusion-and-illusion/
Otherwise good points. I always have to train myself to shut up when I get the urge to tell people that women are total sluts.
KryptoKate
Posted at 08:21 pm, 8th March 2017OK I meant delusion by that definition, but I think the popular definition is that a delusion is something that crazy people think, and therefore a widely held, normative social belief cannot be a delusion bc most people believe whatever they think is “normal” and believed by everyone else.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:14 pm, 8th March 2017About three other guys said the same thing above. Go see what I told them in response. coughtheorycough
I didn’t say it was.
I’m saying serial monogamy doesn’t make men happy. You’re just saying why men do it. That has nothing to do with my point.
I know. And it will get worse. Decline of Western civilization and all that.
Not that I care. People who get traditionally married are asking for it, and I have no sympathy for these people.
Roger
Posted at 11:57 pm, 8th March 2017@Vincent
Its normal to want to pair bond, there is also a lot of NRE chemistry going on in our heads/bodies. BD discussed this in one of his previous posts.
The problem is with people not knowing, believing or being ready to end it.
Marriage made financial sense back in the old times when people died in their thirties, often the men, and women had no jobs.
@brick
She may not have been giving you a shittest – women love to talk about their exes and sex, also she is nonmonogamous and feels comfortable and open.
To breakup. You turn her into a FB or hardnext.
Well the gf may have vanished because you were good and they didn’t want to hurt you, they were bored though. Also you could have not been maintaining a strong enough alpha frame (being too good).
You can’t expect long term relationship partners to come back as quickly as a nexted FB. Especially if they’ve become bored with you & and are doing SM – they are in with one of their orbiters now, and they were looking forward to that for awhile, next they’ll move onto another orbiter they fancy.
As for threatening to next – thats not alpha, you just next fullstop. Read BD previous post on this he gives specific details on how its done properly. Better yet buy his book. And get the podcasts.
@joe k
You should be actively gaining female aquantances and flirting – its alpha and you bet your balls she is doing the same thing. If she questions or accuses, you just say “what?” You were flirting! “Was I? I didn’t realise, thought I was just being friendly. She is beautiful.”
The problem with most SM (serial monogamy) is men meld their lives with the gf too much, opening themselves up to massive drama.
Even BD thouroughly vets his MLTR/OLTR’s before a meld and has contingencies in place for drama (which he cannot immediately next) read his article about massive drama on a planned holiday away – nightmare, but he is ready for it.
Men are not exclusively vilified – you been scoffing too much MGTOW redpills.
Women also get flak for being cheating sluts/whores, especially by other women. They dislike these women because they could potentially sleeo with their monogamous man. Getting pregnant, jeopardizing her financial situation or even wrecking her relationship.
Gil Galad
Posted at 03:17 am, 9th March 2017LOL, Kate, didn’t I tell you to make a blog. It’d been a while since your last nuclear SP destroyer, but you’re back. The only thing I’m thinking about now is a scene from Walking With Dinosaurs where Kenneth Branagh is saying that the nesting female T-rex has finally broken her fast, LOL again. I can’t fathom why the fuck this comment of yours (and some others you’ve made in the past) isn’t plastered all over the internet for men and women to read.
DisgruntledEarthling
Posted at 04:58 am, 9th March 2017Day Without Women
– Student chick I’m talking to wanted to “strike”, but she had an important class to attend… Lot’s of peer-pressure from sister&friends to conform.
At the office in the Real World? Not a whisper of the day. Stupid Leftist radio here (cbc) playing only women artists…
Bulma78
Posted at 07:37 am, 9th March 2017I don’t usually like to post anything here unless it really speaks to me and this did! This is so true and I have no idea why, but yes, the idea of an ex-boyfriend does gross me out and I regret that I was ever with them in the first place; I wish I could go back in time and never have met them. I feel this same way no matter if I broke up with them or if they broke up with me.
Andrea
Posted at 07:57 am, 9th March 2017Kate, wow mic drop! It’s so refreshing to read comments by women who know how to present their ideas with logic. I second the idea about starting your own blog.
All my life I’ve done serial monogamy without knowing it since SP was strong and I had drank all the Disney Kool-Aid. So I naively thought that those relationships might last forever. LOL. Now that I’m completely sold on BDs approach, I want to know how to start open relationships when almost ALL men seem to still be very into monogamy. Jealousy is a monster that most men don’t want to or know how to tame.
Brick
Posted at 08:54 am, 9th March 2017Bulma78 said:
“I don’t usually like to post anything here unless it really speaks to me and this did! This is so true and I have no idea why, but yes, the idea of an ex-boyfriend does gross me out and I regret that I was ever with them in the first place; I wish I could go back in time and never have met them. I feel this same way no matter if I broke up with them or if they broke up with me.”
As a 35+ y.o. man it’s sad to me that for whatever reason this little secret about how many women feel disgust for their exes isn’t made public. It’s something that I suspected off and on in my blue pill days going back a decade or more. Please, as a woman, tell me what the point is for a man to be a “good boyfriend” if his memory is going to end up in the “ew gross” pile eventually, no matter what he does?
I still think fondly of most my exes, and most of it isn’t sexual (well, maybe half). It’s a bummer to think they cringe about me, even though I’m considered attractive and a more than competent lover. Not to get all MGTOW about it, but isn’t this kind of a conspiracy among women to keep this love illusion alive so that men will keep struggling like doomed salmon up a rocky creek?
@Andrea
The fastest, most surefire way to get more men into polyamory would be telling us that the pleasant memories from a former monogamous relationship seem to be only kept by the men. Of course, this would likely cause more harm to the already foundering marriage institution.
Some men seem to be able to accept the new normal of a possible divorce, but knowing that she’d flush all those years from her mind turns the whole fiasco into a nihilistic exercise par excellence.
Brick
Posted at 09:18 am, 9th March 2017@Roger
I totally agree with your assessments of my comment, but the “alpha frame” stuff is pretty silly for guys who’ve worked in dangerous fields or are comfortable in high stress situations involving conflict. Spend all day risking your ass or battling some fierce competition? Great! Now you can be the “alpha” at home too, and one little slip up means Suzie Hypergamy’s delicate hormonal balance is thrown against you.
No thanks! I’ve been there and I’m sure you have as well.
If women are so complex as to require this constant framing, then they should be relegated to casual/open scenarios only. I don’t see how it’s “being an alpha” to re-frame constantly or work to “train her” so to speak. If it were a job you’d quit or ask for a big raise. It’s the equivalent to looking for a drunk fight on a Friday night only to prove you can stomp the other guy. It’s beyond dumb, and I’ve been that idiot and the caveman BD describes in the post. Pointless.
Max Cantor
Posted at 10:38 am, 9th March 2017Open relationships work best, IMO.
hey hey
Posted at 01:55 pm, 9th March 2017I don’t think that’s a standard. If that was the case most women wouldn’t have returned under open relationship system. Also most women are not grossed out by an ex alpha(makes it even harder for them and miss him if they have a beta currently). I know many women who chased men repeatedly even years after they breakup and even after they’ve gone through few betas. They still miss that alpha that fucked their brains out.
K
Posted at 02:36 pm, 9th March 2017@ Brick
Man, cut the drama. There’s certainly no conspiracy and most of what you’re thinking isn’t even true. I have all sorts of exes: With two of them we’re still friends (we’ve been just that for over 10 years in both cases and I have very good memories of our preceding time together and while I am not strongly attracted to them anymore, I am certainly not grossed out by them). Then there are two who I don’t really want to see again, despite any sexual attraction that might remain, because of the way they used me. Nevertheless I have memories of good experiences I’ve had with them, sexual and non-sexual. Then there’s one I would love to be friends with because he’s an amazing person but unfortunately I fucked it up: the slight attraction I felt for him died during our first sex and yet I stayed in a relationship with him because I wanted a relationship with a good man more than good sex. I was emotionally stuck on someone else, though, and it came back to haunt me. Except the relationship with him, I never ended a relationship because of a lack of attraction from my side. What I can say is that once I form a sexual bond with a new man (which is not the same as “when I sleep with someone new”), the former bond disconnects to an extent.
Joe K
Posted at 02:45 pm, 9th March 2017@Brick – I pretty much agree with everything you wrote. With one little caveat I address below.
@KryptoKate – wow fantastic comment and I agree with your analysis…oh but then you had to go and say this: “I don’t know why you’re so mad at women when they’ve been peddled the illusion just as much”.
Maybe because women today believe they are entitled to have their cake and eat it too, which is exactly what they get with the Serial Monogamy Illusion. They sacrifice nothing. Meanwhile every guy who actually remains monogamous has been sacrificing his desire for sexual variety since day 1 of the monogamous union. He, then, spends years NOT having his cake and eating it too. Hence, the anger. Understand?
@Hey Hey (and Brick) – most women have been conditioned to trash their exes, no matter what (because it’s their way of communicating “I will now, and will always until the end of time, claim entitlement to a higher-status relationship object, in perpetuity, forever”). Especially if he was ‘an asshole’ (we all know what that means). This is actually LESS true if their ex turned into a wussbag or became beta-ized during her relationship with him (yet in that particular case, she may be actually disgusted with the thought of fucking him again). A man who trashes his exes in public is seen as a malevolent, no-class dirtbag. A woman who trashes her exes in public is seen with sympathy, understanding, and even if she reveals herself to be clearly batshit crazy in her lashing-out comments – there’s a social-convention axiom to neatly justify that away – “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”. So it’s not her fault for trashing her exes publicly, see? Anyhow – the reality of a woman’s true feelings for her exes cannot be accurately ascertained by her public words, to say the least.
Brick
Posted at 03:19 pm, 9th March 2017@Joe K said:
“Maybe because women today believe they are entitled to have their cake and eat it too, which is exactly what they get with the Serial Monogamy Illusion. They sacrifice nothing. Meanwhile every guy who actually remains monogamous has been sacrificing his desire for sexual variety since day 1 of the monogamous union. He, then, spends years NOT having his cake and eating it too. Hence, the anger. Understand?”
Yep.
@K
I’d have an easier time following your responses if broke it into paragraphs. I was responding to Bulma78’s comment about feeling gross about her exes. Drama? You’re the one trotting out the tired Steinem-era giant bush feminism:
“No one ever says anything even remotely like that to women. Instead all they ever hear about is how they need to watch out for dangerous, rapacious, sexually out-of-control men. So women do NOT expect to have their own out-of-control strong sexual instincts, and when it happens they think it must be fate or true love or an alignment on the stars or something. Why else would they have had sex with a guy other than because they’re meant to be together??? No one ever explains to them how their basic biology and reproductive system works or that their body wants them to be impregnated by a dominant, aggressive male even if their mind and society tell them they DON’T want that. Seriously. Most women have no idea how they work. Maybe if a woman is an overly-cerebral, overly-analytical, fact-obsessed nerd like me, then they will eventually use logic and reality-testing to deduce the truth, but most will not because it goes against everything they’ve ever been taught their entire lives. Perhaps we need to fundamentally reform sexual education in this country.”
Last time I checked, girls were sexting at 13 and sleeping around. Pretty sure young women are well aware that they’re “sexual creatures”, too (thanks Beyonce, Miley, etc).
You guys HAVE fundamentally changed education, not just sex ed, and not for the better judging by the quality of young people that system is producing.
Brick
Posted at 03:45 pm, 9th March 2017@Joe K
” Anyhow – the reality of a woman’s true feelings for her exes cannot be accurately ascertained by her public words, to say the least.”
True enough. The basic one I keep forgetting: what she does>what she says
@K:
Please tell me how men are supposed to navigate sexual creatures who seem to have professional and political agency, and who also use multiple layers of deception (internal and external, conscious and unconscious) as part of their hard wired mating strategy?
I date feminists almost exclusively (I know, guys, I know), only by virtue of the fact that I live in a large city filled with them, and the constant victim game is really tired considering how many of them ditch BF’s and hubbies with little thought, yet they’ll worry obsessively about feral cats or gluten free food options for women in Kandahar. They make good money, they live well, and they have high standards for lovers even while Larping about “ending patriarchy”.
The impression I get is that feminists have simply rebranded female hedonism as some kind of heroic social justice campaign, and any criticism is labelled “”misogyny”.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:03 pm, 9th March 2017Think of it this way, guys: There is no such thing as monogamy. Everyone who has a serious girlfriend/boyfriend is in an open/poly relationship. The only question is: Do they know it? Sleeping with others is on a spectrum – (1) out in the open in front of each other, (2) separately, but with each other’s knowledge, (3) discreetly, but with the other suspecting and being ok with it as long as too many details aren’t given (don’t ask, don’t tell), or (4) privately without your partner’s knowledge. But it’s all the same. It’s just separated by a specific number of privacy layers, or sometimes not at all. Either way, everyone’s in an OLTR.
The controversy isn’t between poly and mono. It’s between open poly and discrete poly. No other relationship exists in nature.
This is why I laugh at guys who are into poly but are horrified by cheating in mono, or look down on me for sleeping with married or mono women. It’s beneath me to honor people’s fictional Easter bunnies.
Brick
Posted at 04:16 pm, 9th March 2017@JackOTB
I agree with most you said. And I’ll be honest, until I tried this poly thing with an open mind I thought you were full of it. This kind of approach requires self-honesty and a philosophical overhaul.
I think you’re dead wrong for fooling around with married women, though. I did it a few times in my youth and look at it like other dumb very risky things I did. I do not want to get shot, or forced into an altercation with physical or legal consequences. You’re telling me you don’t feel badly for the husband? I’m not exactly the “solidarity type” (there’s an Easter Bunny for you – pink hats!) but do you really want to be the catalyst for some blue pill guy offing himself?
I’m assuming you’re “red pill” or whatever. Why on earth would you tangle up your business with a woman’s marriage/infidelity non-logic and her (presumably) blue pill husband? I’ll swing with a poly couple but secret affairs? Fuck that.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:20 pm, 9th March 2017@Brick:
Ahem! Are you suggesting that this is a bad thing?
Teaching teenagers sexual liberation is precisely what we want. I agree that there are flaws when it comes to sexual recklessness, teenage pregnancy, and the like, but changing it should involve fixing those problems, not going back to teaching our kids prudery. You disagree?
Yes. They want to reverse slut shaming and aim it at men. If a woman sleeps with multiple men, feminists consider her brave and empowered. But if a man sleeps with multiple women, he’s considered a pig, a sleaze, an objectifier of women, a misogynist, and a contributor to rape culture. Pure hypocrisy. And who taught feminists that all male heterosexuality is rape? Their traditional conservative fathers who wanted to “protect” their “sweet little girls” from orgasms with a shot gun as soon as they reached puberty, equating teenage sex with some kind of violent crime. Thanks tradcons!
P.S. Just saw your most recent response. Will respond later.
Brick
Posted at 04:45 pm, 9th March 2017@JackOTB
“Teaching teenagers sexual liberation is precisely what we want. I agree that there are flaws when it comes to sexual recklessness, teenage pregnancy, and the like, but changing it should involve fixing those problems, not going back to teaching our kids prudery. You disagree?”
Personally, I think this atomization isn’t so much about liberation or agency but about global consumerism and the intentional destruction of pair bonding. I felt this way as a commie, and I feel even more strongly about it as (somewhat) conservative. It isn’t the sex itself, it’s the depersonalization of the act and the destruction of privacy with the ubiquitous screens and apps. We’ve turned into bots, not liberated, enlightened Westerners enjoying each other fully and honestly. It isn’t Stranger in a Strange Land, it’s more like Brave New World, imo.
To the extent that feminism is a kind of neo-puritanism, I agree, with the male sex drive being shamed instead of the female. Oh, and then there’s the bizarre ambiguity of these tabula rasa theories about culture and gender, which are straight up religious in their universalist idiocy. Instead of finding “the devil” everywhere, they find “misogyny/racism” everywhere and refuse to acknowledge the ugliness of nature – which they worship (save the planet!) as uncritically as any apologist for Yahweh’s insanity in the Old Testament.
I support conservationism up to a point but that joke Mitch Hedberg made about fish screaming in pain in the ocean is very very true.
KryptoKate
Posted at 05:55 pm, 9th March 2017@ Brick
First of all, I am not the same person as the person who posted as “K”.
Second, I do not think women trash or dismiss all previous relationships. I meant they don’t remain sexually and romantically interested. They can still think the man was wonderful and that they had a wonderful few years together. That is actually how most women I know talk about their exes. That when things were good it was lovely and he’s a great guy in many ways, etc. But not that they would ever want to sleep with or be with them again.
I think that women who were not truly in relationships that broke up…but merely hooked up a few times or were being strung along by a guy…may sometimes still want to sleep with him or return to it.
I don’t know the reason for this difference between men and women. It might be, like I posited, that men are more possessive and territorial and people always get indignant and resentful (not merely hurt) when something they think is “theirs” is “taken away”. Another possibility is that women are more emotionally protective and adaptive to current circumstances. You have to admit that remaining emotionally caught up with someone when a relationship is over is not adaptive.
I understand why you don’t like the idea, and we all want to be remembered and cherished. But I think you can honor something and also move on from it. When you lose something you mourn while you adapt to the loss, and then you move on. At least, that’s what you do if you want to be emotionally well.
On modern feminism, that’s too large of a topic to broach here, but suffice it to say that the current version has certainly become completely incoherent. There’s some equality under the law and reproductive rights old-school stuff…i.e. the 70s version, which I like…then there’s a bunch of consumeristic right to sell yourself to the masses as a high-class prostitute type of Madonna/Beyonce stuff which seems to be mostly about a few people making money by selling logically inconsistent but emotionally resonant memes. And I have no idea what 13 year olds are doing nowadays and don’t know anyone that age so I won’t speak to that. Our culture (I’m talking the US) has always been totally pathological about sex, using it for commercial purposes to sell things other than sex and presenting a polished and shiny fake version that serves no one but the marketers, while at the same time finding anything that honestly addresses real sex and real bodies and how real people behave as shameful and taboo.
Also, you can’t even really talk about US culture as a whole because there are so many sub-cultures. The attitudes about sex that your average black guy in predominantly black neighborhood versus Asian guy in a progressive, affluent neighborhood versus white guy in a religious family get growing up will all be quite different.
@ Joe K I hear what you’re saying about the disparity and “having their cake and eating it too.” One way to look at it is that a man DOES acquire something he wants when he agrees to a monogamous relationship: sexual monopoly over the woman (for at least some period of time). If you want to get biological about it, from the view of passing on genes and viable pregnancy, sex with a woman isn’t that useful for the man unless he has a sexual monopoly, because another man is just as likely to impregnate her, and therefore men have a hardwired interest in keeping her exclusive. The anthro analysis is that men desire to stay around their woman and take up all her time in order to mate-guard her. In other words it is NOT to give her something she wants, rather it is to keep other men away. This also aligns with other reasons for pair-bonding (ie the difficulty and vast investment of attention and resources that children require). Thus from this view, it serves both of their interests to be exclusive and pair-bonded for at least the time required to get a child to where it can walk and start to feed itself, i.e. past the danger zone where it’s most likely to die. From the evo perspective, there is nothing about sex that does either men or women any good whatsoever if a viable, surviving child does not result.
Obviously we are well past that in a world of way too many people, but the instincts are still there. So acquiring a woman’s sexual exclusivity for 2-3 years is actually HIGHLY valuable from an evo perspective, and this is even more true if she’s what you perceive as a “quality” woman. I think it still feels that way to a man’s emotions as well. Most men have a very strong instinct to prevent a woman he sleeps with, especially one he considers very high value, from sleeping with other men (Jack In the Box and other outliers who’ve managed to overcome this OBW notwithstanding). So if you manage to obtain that exclusivity for a while, you actually have gotten something out of it, even if it ends.
Brick
Posted at 06:08 pm, 9th March 2017@KryptoKate
Point taken, and I apologize for confusing you with K. Thanks for your insights about (some) women’s attitudes towards their exes. I don’t want to sleep with my recent mono ex, in fact the sex was a big issue, but I did enjoy our conversations and it was tough to lose that. It seemed like there was still a bit of a friendship, but instead I got news that she trashed me to mutual acquaintances after we went radio silent a few months post breakup.
Life goes on!
hey hey
Posted at 10:02 pm, 9th March 2017Joe K: I disagree. As ive said I know a lot of beautiful women that made a joke of themselves for years just to have that asshole again. Then one day they give up and the decide to trash him.
Kryptokate: You forget one thing. Dont listen to what women say. Women might bash a guy just to look cool then they go to FB posting some BS quotes showing qhat they really feel. Or they send messages to see how th “asshole” ex is doing.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 02:44 am, 10th March 2017@Brick:
First of all, I don’t bow down to terrorism! We all choose to either live like free human beings or slaves with a tyrant’s boot on our throats. If you have chosen the latter, that is your choice. But I have chosen a long time ago to live free without fear or intimidation from the sheep. My death at the hands of an angry beta male is preferable to a life of denying myself in order to appease a low IQ mob with torches and pitchforks. I won’t live like a slave just because the rest of the world is in slavery. And no beta loser husband is going to scare me into compromising my beliefs.
Second of all, the married women I sleep with aren’t reckless or easily catchable. They are true masters of discretion. One of them (partially at my suggestion) tells her husband fake stories about how she’s constantly hit on or approached by horny dudes and is forced to reject them because “I’m married and I love my husband.” This puffs up the husband’s ego and he’d never suspect that two hours later my cock is inside his wife’s ass! She also sends him lovey dovey texts after we’re done.
Third of all, legal consequences? What legal consequences?
No. Why would I? First of all, he doesn’t know a thing. He’s a happy man. What’s there to feel bad about?
Second, if he were to find out, he’d learn a red pill lesson concerning the illusion of monogamy. I learned this lesson myself when my last mono girl cheated on me years ago, which propelled my own red pill education. I see it as doing the husband a favor in that sense. I’m helping him become a big boy by teaching him that there’s no Easter bunny.
Third, the other married woman I’m currently with credits me for saving her marriage with her husband. By sleeping with me discreetly, she’s in a better mood and feels hornier when she’s with hubby. I have rekindled a passion inside her that she is now transferring onto her husband, thus getting him laid more often and saving his marriage (even though he doesn’t even know I exist and thinks he’s getting laid because of his own attractiveness, lol). Lest you forget, cheating can actually save and strengthen marriages.
Fourth, many of these husbands are cheating, or want to cheat, themselves. These men aren’t pure and innocent. A few months ago, my girlfriend was in a crazy situation where she was screwing a married dude and his wife, but neither of them knew that she was sleeping with the other one! They were both cheating on each other with her and they didn’t know it! Further, she offered to hook the husband up with other female fuck buddies (even though it never happened). He thought she was the coolest girl ever, but he didn’t know that she made the same offer to his wife (regarding male fuck buddies), which resulted in me having a threesome with the wife and my girl on three occasions while the husband thought that (1) his wife was faithful, (2) that only he is fucking my girl, and (3) that my girl is cheating on me without me knowing it, which apparently resulted in him smirking at my picture once! LOL!
Let not your tears be jerked for these poor, poor innocent men!
I don’t give a flying fuck! I fully support the legalization of suicide. And as a red pill adult, I understand that I am responsible for no actions other than my own. If a blue piller has decided that his emotional weaknesses cannot handle reality, then suicide may indeed be a rational choice. As free people, we all have the right to decide when the pain of living outweighs the pleasure of living, and what our own thresholds are. If this is beyond the husband’s psychological threshold, then discouraging his suicide would actually be an act of needless cruelty. His life belongs in his hands and he should set his own tolerance level.
I have set mine. A year ago I purchased a gun in order to commit suicide if I’m ever diagnosed with a terminal illness or if I ever become paralyzed due to a car accident or something (and I’ve recently encouraged my girl to do the same, although she’s still thinking about it). Committing suicide can become part of your own self-actualization. There’s nothing to fear or be ashamed of when it comes to having your life in your hands. If betas kill themselves because their beloved cheated, that is a valid life choice! We all set our own limits for pain acceptability and it’s not my place to judge or discourage these husbands from killing themselves (whom I’ll never even meet).
And you seem to still be in the process of digesting your own red pill. You don’t seem quite there yet, though.
I’m not tangling up my business with any blue pill husband. None of these husbands have ever met me. And they won’t. I’d certainly never have sex with women whose husbands I know or interact with, whether personally or professionally. That would be reckless. These husbands have no reason to even bump into me on the street. The only one who’s entangled is the wife, but most of these wives, as I said, have everything under control and play their husbands like a violin.
They are only secret from the wife’s perspective, not mine. I don’t have anyone to hide it from because I’ll never meet the husband nor anyone in his social circle (I’m not reckless). Besides, having sex with married women is the most passionate, mindblowing, and phenomenal sex I’ve ever had in my life (with the possible exception of my current girlfriend). You’re missing out.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:42 am, 10th March 2017@Brick:
Ok, let’s stop right here for a moment. In order for a sex-positive or enlightened culture to exist where people like us can be as promiscuous as we choose, atomization is essential. Imagine the opposite: You are living in a communitarian and close-knit community where neighbors observe neighbors and kids can’t get away with anything because the next door neighbor who has no life is watching and will spank them for you (like in the 1950s). In such a communitarian “high trust society” (the perfect world, according to the Alt-Right), privacy and discretion become literally impossible. God help you if your personality doesn’t conform to the mainstream. Creativity is frowned upon and sex cannot deviate from expected norms because everyone is watching because “we’re a high trust community.”
In order for any type of sexual liberation to exist (which is what we want here), our culture has to be atomized and an individualistic “low trust society.” Low trust individualism and atomization gives birth to the concept of privacy. Privacy, in turn, fosters creativity, non-conformity, free thinking, and, of course, the possibility for sexual open mindedness without being arrested and thrown in prison for “corrupting public morality” or shamed by your neighbors for giving them “dirty thoughts.”
In order for our lifestyles to exist with the requisite discretion that this requires, the masses must be forced to mind their own business. This is impossible, except in an atomized/individualistic low trust community, which allows weirdos like us to do something we can’t do in close-knit high trust societies: Breathe!
Plus, if you have a “falling out” with, let’s say, your swingers circle, you can simply divorce yourself from it and find another community to belong to (with the internet, it’s so easy). And you can do this without moving physically to a new address or ever being worried about bumping into your ex-friends again (since it’s a big city).
So already we have a problem: If you’re against atomization, then you are against sexual enlightenment. Atomization is just as essential as a gender neutral economy – which is also essential so that women can prevent financial dependency on men from strangling their true sex drives.
Regardless of what it is about in practice, the fact remains that our lifestyles couldn’t exist without it, irrespective of the motivations of the elites.
See above.
That’s because monogamy is being replaced with nothing. Just because the elites are doing this for their own evil purposes so that they can destroy culture and leave the vulnerable new generation with no beliefs, no convictions, and no mediating institutions between the individual and a tyrannical government doesn’t change anything.
We still need atomization so we can live the way we choose without cultural shame or legal sanctions. If you want to fight the elites, a better strategy would be to counter the dark side by teaching teenagers (preferably through their sex-education courses) sex-positive values and pair bonding within an open/poly structure. This will piss off the elites because (like you said) they want the young nihilistic for their globalist takeover to be effective, but it’d be a great way to counter the dark side of sexual enlightenment while still preserving its light side (the side that makes us happy).
Otherwise, what’s your solution? Undoing atomization, and therefore, undoing our sex lives?
You really can’t be a conservative and sex-positive.
What do you mean by this? The only depersonalization that I see is via professionalization, like prostitution and porn. But if two people are having casual sex based on mutual lust, I’d hardly call that impersonal. Besides, casual sex doesn’t negate long term pair bonding within a poly structure.
Again, what’s your alternative? Discourage casual sex? I hope you’re joking!
Here, we are in complete agreement. Without privacy, sex-positivism cannot survive.
Totally agree. If I were dictator, the CIA, NSA, and most of the other alphabet soup agencies would be abolished. And private companies would not be allowed to spy on their customers without their consent. This is very disturbing to me as well, as I consider privacy an inalienable human right.
Yup. But even if we teach that gender is biological and innate (which it is), we should still not shame those who don’t conform. There are plenty of exceptions to the rule and traditional gender roles should never be enforced by law or cultural custom, lest our lifestyles become illegal or culturally scorned even more so than now. Instead, individualism and freedom is key.
By the way – the trans-gender community will eventually abolish feminism for us. If men dress up like women and insist on becoming women, regardless of cultural programming pressuring them to be men, because they were born with a feminine brain, that means there is such a thing as a feminine brain, thus rendering feminism’s “gender is a patriarchal social construction” garbage completely null and void. But my attitude is simply – let everyone follow their innate gender without pressuring anyone to conform to something which they don’t want to conform to, hence my disagreement with both tradcons and social justice lunatics.
Correct. The “climate change” myth was invented for the purposes of global UN takeover and the fictional idea of “race-based multiculturalism” was brought about to make all countries weak, thus destroying any psychological defense against a one world dystopia. This is why I support a racial assimilation and integration (what social justice crazies call “cultural genocide”), as distinguished from the multiculturalism they preach, which, in practice, means cultural segregation based on race.
Bulma78
Posted at 12:00 pm, 10th March 2017Hi Brick, well maybe I should have given more detail, so I will now. (Btw, I am 38, so close to your age). Also I’ve been dumped more times than I’ve dumped guys. As a matter of fact, out of all the guys I’ve slept with, which hasn’t been too many, they all dumped me except for one…..and it’s not because I’m some mean, bad person, it was mostly because they were ready to move on and bang somebody new. In their defense, they were good boyfriends until near the end. When they turned into bad boyfriends, that’s when they got added to the “eww gross” pile. One dumped me without me realizing it right away and things were actually going pretty decent, but I knew he was thinking he wanted to start seeing other people. One day we had an argument on the phone. He called me an f-ing biotch and hung up on me, and yah it was justified because I did yell at him on the phone. so I’ll admit that. I thought he would cool off, but when I tried to call a couple days later, he didn’t answer, never returned my call, so I tried again next day, same thing. I tried once more and told myself if he doesn’t respond, I won’t try again. He never responded and I never tried calling back ever again and that was it. He couldn’t even tell me it was over so he just decided to ignore me I guess. Then I saw him a few months later at a bonfire and he was trying to hide! His friends were laughing at him and came up to me and pointed him out to me. They loved that he was so uncomfortable for some reason. So yah, thinking about him now just disgusts me! The other boyfriend that comes to mind was very lazy, usually crabby, gaining a lot of weight and just turning out to be all sorts of wrong, oh and he gave me an std. This guy I did break up with and he grosses me out so much! I can’t believe I ever saw anything good in him. Another guy gave me an std and then stopped calling me/wouldn’t return my calls – they all totally deserve to be in the “eww gross” pile.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 02:48 pm, 13th March 2017@Kryptokate:
This is misandric/feminist horseshit. The reasons are biological. When a man has sex with a woman enough times without producing a baby, the woman’s body comes to the conclusion that he is infertile, thus releasing feelings of sexual repulsion into her brain. But when a man sleeps with a woman, his body tells him that he impregnated her every time, even though he didn’t and was using a condom. Thus, his DNA has no reason to force him to lose attraction for her.
This is why open relationships are a great solution. They accomplish two things: First, they deny her her biological imperative of domesticating the guy. For this reason, while he is still untamed, her body is still attracted to him because her biological purposes for him have not yet been completed. Likewise, if she sleeps with other men regularly, her body isn’t going to know which man is fertile and which isn’t, or if there is something wrong with itself that prevents it from getting pregnant, thus maintaining attraction way, way longer than in monogamy.
This is sentimental female solipsism.
Oh come on. Yes you do. We all know what 13 year olds are doing nowadays. Unless they’re being indoctrinated in some politically correct bullshit, they are absolutely having sex with each other way more than even my generation (which is good).
This is an illusion. Everyday that passes that she chooses to have sex with no one but him is a day that furthers this illusion. He has no sexual monopoly. An agreement to monogamy means nothing. She can sleep with anyone she wants, and there is literally nothing he can ever do to stop her. If she sleeps with only him, it’s because that’s what she chose, regardless of whether they’re in a monogamous relationship or a casual fuck buddy arrangement. A monogamous agreements adds nothing to monogamy in practice. There is no monogamy in practice. There is only choosing to not sleep with others, which you can technically choose even when you’re just having casual sex with one person.
Which is completely obsolete and nonsensical today.
Needy. Beta behavior.
Outside of a jungle environment or a third world shithole, these instincts aren’t as strong though.
Another myth that I would love to explode is this “myth” of too many people. There are actually way too little people on this planet for my taste. This very disturbing anti-children mindset coming exclusively from the West threatens to destroy our entire civilization while we are overrun with third world savages breeding like rabbits. When the smartest people refuse to have children, you end up with the movie Idiocracy. The “overpopulation” anti-humanist myth really needs to be expunged from red pill circles. It’s based on hippie/environmental white guilt bullshit and has no basis in actual reality.
Sadly yes. And it’s reinforced by cultural programming.
Sad but true.
Sigh
I’ve never had it in the first place. Yes, once upon a time, I used to believe in monogamy, but only in contractual terms. So if my monogamous girlfriend had sex with another man, I wouldn’t be pissed at that. Rather, I would get pissed that she broke our contract, thus disrespecting me and forcing me to dump her for the sake of my own dignity (even while I was cheating on her too). But if her and I were to have simply been friends with benefits, I wouldn’t care about her sleeping with others because there was no verbal agreement to abstain from that.
So eventually, I came to the conclusion that these verbal agreements are pointless. Besides, I was always getting into monogamous relationships with highly promiscuous women who always cheated on me. For this reason, people advised me to start getting into serious relationships with Disney prudes, which would of course have led to my sexual frustration (a la the typical blue pill husband who chose a “nice girl”). That’s when I realized that I can either become a raging sexually frustrated slut shamer, or I can dump monogamy and devote myself exclusively to the most promiscuous and open minded women, both for casual sex and serious (poly) relationships. I chose the latter.
There is no way of knowing if she is exclusive with you. Literally no way.
K
Posted at 10:21 am, 14th March 2017You ignored my point and conveniently left it out when you quoted me which was this, in bold:
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:55 am, 14th March 2017“Mini drama spikes?” Sounds great. Where do I sign up?
That means she cares.
My point stands. If you expect no or little drama from a woman who knows (or suspects or “has a feeling”) that you’re cheating on her, you’re either wrong, or you don’t mind drama, in which case serial monogamy is “okay” for you (you being a higher drama guy), as I stated in the article.
As I’ve said, if you like serial monogamy and you don’t mind drama, we don’t have a disagreement.
Rezzy
Posted at 05:27 pm, 28th March 2017“Saying no to monogamy” question.
Girl invites me over. Total babe.
We’ve seen each other three times already. We slept together. It was great.
Next day texts me, “We had sex too fast. No more sex unless we’re exclusive.”
I politely tell her I’m not a fan of monogamy and think it’s a bad relationship practice to give each other rules what to do or what not to do with our bodies.
She says it’s over, and she feels stupid. So heavy buyer’s remorse.
What do you typically do in a situation like this?
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 02:22 am, 30th March 2017@Rezzy:
Respond back: Take care then. Glad we had fun.
Man logic. Won’t work.
Respond nonchalantly and wish her well in life. Then, a few days later, now that you passed her beta test, watch as her horny ass crawls back to you begging for sex and admitting how impressed she was with your resolve, how much of a jerk she thinks you are, and how she hates herself for being so turned on, as most weaker men would have immediately made her their girlfriend. Then resume casual sex with her as she never mentions monogamy again.
Edoardo
Posted at 09:14 am, 15th September 2017I fully agree with all BD articles which say MONOGAMMY DOESN’T WORK. I would like to tell you my experience, sorry if there are some mistakes, but English is not my first Language. When I was 22 I was quite inexpierenced and naive with dating affairs I got to know this girl who was incredibly hot 21 years old. She was in a very long term relationship over than 4 years. Day after day she got very close to me and started asking me out I was ignoring her unintentionally because I thought she wants really just friendship with me. She started chasing after me and complaining that I don’t give her enough attention. Until one day she was even kind of begging me to come and sleep beside me at that day finally she cheated and we had such a great sex she was on of the hottiest girl in bed after longer than 4 years relationship. She was kind of desperate in her sexual life. She told me even she doesn’t understand why I’m single and thought that I was ignoring her because I’m with many other prettier girls than her she aked if I accept to be her new boyfriend even. After keep cheating for 2 months I fell very strong for her and she got caught that she is cheating and her boyfriend asked her to break up the contact with me, she pulled me into such a fucking drama she stayed in contact with me secretly, but she stopped cheating just to ensure that I’m still hooked on her and not fucking other better looking girl than her. I started behaving like oneitis pussy telling her I’m desperate don’t need any girl in world except her all the beta things neediness and weak suddenly after One month she broke up with her boyfriend and dumped my ass. My story illustrates how neediness oneotis are bad things from chasing after me and struggling to have sex with me to dumping me.