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The Top 8 Things Guys Do Wrong In Nonmono Relationships
speaking with hundreds, if not thousands of men over the past decade or so regarding relationship management of nonmonogamous relationships, several patterns have emerged. I generally see guys make the same set of common mistakes over and over again. Below are the top ten mistakes I see men make with establishing or maintaining FB, MLTR, or OLTR relationships with women. If you are conscious of these mistakes and avoid them, that alone will take your relationship game to the next level.They are listed in no particular order.
-By Caleb Jones
Verbalizing aspects of a sexual or romantic relationship does the following things: Increase betaization. Increase the likelihood of drama. Increase provider hunter desires. Invites a bunch of premature and difficult questions. Reduces attraction. Increases discomfort. You don’t want any of those things. Don’t talk about the relationship at all until it’s time for The Talk, and that means at least three months or more into the relationship.
2. Getting oneitisish with a particular girl. Guys who follow my material are usually self-aware enough to know not to get oneitis for a girl (though there are certainly many exceptions to this). Yet, a lot of guys still get oneitisish for an FB or MLTR who is So Hot™ or who is Not Like The Rest™ or who is So Good In Bed™. Oneitisish is when you find yourself going out of your way to do (or not do) certain things because you’re scared that she might stop seeing you or some other guy might take her away. You shouldn’t give a shit. You’ve got other girls, so if she leaves, you’re still covered. If she leaves, she leaves. Don’t worry, there’s a 94% chance she’ll be back. If you start getting worried, even a little bit, that she might leave, that’s a red flag that you’re venturing into oneitis territory.
3. Getting oversensitive about what constitutes “disrespect.” This is when right-wing, traditional, Alpha Male 1.0 aspects creep into your behavioral patterns. Guys will say things like this to me: “She talked about another guy the other day. Should I soft next her for that disrespect?” No. She’s not your mono-GF. Talking about other men isn’t disrespectful. If you hate when she does that, feel free to tell her not to do that (but that’s not Alpha 2.0 either). “She was 13 minutes late when I met her for lunch last week. Super disrespectful. I soft nexted her and haven’t talked to her for five days.”
WTF? Why? In no way is that a soft-nextable offense. You’re just being anal and mean. “When she was really drunk she said my pants and shoes looked gay. Unacceptable!” Hey, dumbass. She was drunk. Why are you taking anything she said seriously while she was drunk? Do you not know what drunk means? Learn to lighten up and not be so Alpha 1.0. Focus on drama, not disrespect. As long as a woman is happy and not giving me drama, I don’t give a fuck about respect and neither should you. She’s your sex partner, not your daughter.
4. Getting lazy and comfortable and then going de facto monogamous. This one mostly affects men with OLTRs or high-end MLTRs. I described it in detail here. It always causes problems, near 100% of the time, when men get lazy and comfortable with one girl and stop seeing other girls. Always remember that once you find a woman you really like and who likes you, de facto monogamy is your number one threat (other than the usual problems of betaization and drama, both of which increase when you go de facto monogamous).
You don’t. You can just invite her right over to your house and have sex. I’ve done this scores of times with scores of women. It’s very easy. Don’t verbalize you’re going to have sex (remember, don’t verbalize!). Just invite her over. If you instead insist on meeting her for lunch or dinner or whatever, you actually reduce the odds of having sex with her again, so don’t do it!
6. Screwing up the FB, MLTR, and OLTR categories. This is when guys mix up the three relationship categories or simply misunderstand them. Obvious mistakes are: When guys take FBs out on dates. When guys go on a week-long trip with a new MLTR. When guys make a woman an OLTR after just meeting her three weeks ago. When guys spend the night with an FB. When guys agree to an MLTR’s requests to meet her parents. When guys attempt to have multiple OLTRs.
Usually, men are making these mistakes because they don’t quite understand the ruleset for each relationship type, or mix up the relationship types. Even worse, sometimes they do understand the rules but attempt to break them anyway (“Why can’t I have multiple OLTRs? Just because BD says I can’t doesn’t mean he’s right!”). Obviously, this almost always ends up with serious problems. The relationship categories and the rules behind them exist for a reason, and only after extensive, real-life field testing (and not just by me, but by lots of other men). Other times guys don’t mix up the categories, but instead, misinterpret what the categories are. Examples of this are:
Guys who think women must spend weeks “qualifying” for MLTR (they don’t; you can make her an MLTR right after having sex with her twice if you want). Guys who think pure FBs require The Talk (they usually don’t). Guys who think it’s okay if their OLTR has a boyfriend on the side, thinking it’s acceptable since the boyfriend doesn’t know what she’s doing (it’s not; at least not for an OLTR). These mistakes are usually less serious than the above ones, but even if they don’t cause problems, they will result in you wasting a lot of time. If you want nonmonogamous relationships to work in your life, it’s imperative you get this book, read it, understand it, practice it, and get help either at the Alpha 2.0 forums or the SMIC program if you still are confused.
7. Dating multiple women in the same social circle at the same time. Oh god. This is such a common one with extroverted guys in their 20s. I get so many panicked emails and questions about this. Listen. There’s no actual rule against having multiple FBs or MLTRs in the same social circle at the same time. If you really want to do it, you’re welcome to and I’m not going to stop you. I realize that often it’s the path of least resistance for guys with bigger and/or more active social circles. I get it. I really do. At the same time, you need to understand that even if you do everything correctly, you’re in for some serious drama problems and some embarrassing scenarios. There’s no way around this if you insist on dating several women all at the same time who all know each other and hang out with the same group of people.
If you have very strong relationship game and you’re a very confident guy who really knows what he’s doing, you can have multiple FBs (not MLTRs!) in the same social circle at the same time if they’re all under the age of 23. I’ve done this myself a few times. But again, A) they were FBs only and B) they were all under the age of 23, so their ASD levels were so low they really didn’t give a shit.But if you attempt anything outside of this, meaning actually having an MLTR (even a low-end one) and an FB, or multiple MLTRs with women all in the same social circle, then I’m sorry, but you’re in for some shit. I purposely do not date women in the same social circles (barring the only-FBs under age 23 exception above), ever. I make sure that all of my women are from decently different worlds. Since my primary method of meeting women is online dating rather than social circle game, this is easy.
If you want a low-drama, easy experience with nonmono relationships, I strongly suggest you do the same. But BD, what if I live in a small town? There’s no way around it then! Then you’re fucked. No easy answers for you guys who live in small towns, as always. Move to a larger city and/or surrender to the fact that you may need to drive 2-3 hours to the nearest largest city every time you want to get laid. And read excuses #12, #13, and #14 here before you leave any comments about this.
You need to stop and think a little bit about no-contact logistics whenever you start seeing a new woman. Always ask yourself, “If she LSNFTEs me and I can’t contact her or see her in any way for six months, will that be easily doable?” If the answer is no, I would strongly recommend either nexting her or downgrading her (or keeping her at) the FB level and avoid making her an MLTR.
Always view any relationship as a long-term state lasting many, many years of breaks and returns, not as something that’s easy and convenient because she just happens to be standing there right in front of you. This is the difference between thinking strategically instead of tactically. Too many of you guys are focused on the tactics of the specific day-to-day techniques, and these are important. But you also need to consider the strategic aspects, that this is a relationship that’s going to last 5-10 years or longer in your life, so it needs to “plug in” to your life in long-term aspects instead of just short-term ones. Want to talk to other guys working on Alpha Male 2.0? Join the new Alpha 2.0 Forums HERE and/or join the Alpha 2.0 Facebook Group HERE. They are both FREE to join!
I’m coming to a town near you in 2019 to do the least expensive Alpha Male 2.0 seminar I’ve ever done. I’ll be in 18 different cities in the USA, Australia, Canada, and Europe. If you want to come to a low-cost seminar to learn how to improve your financial and woman life, click HERE and get your tickets! The next cities coming up are Ottawa, Boston, and New York! Alpha Male 2.0 World Tour 2019
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tester of paternity 2019-05-06 05:50:54
As an extroverted social guy in his 20s, while I agree this adds drama, I can't imagine dating people online. Cold approach, maybe. But the way game works, I'm into particular women with particular worldviews and mindsets. I'm not into women that I cannot at least like, and majority of my attraction towards women comes from their behaviour. As long as looks are acceptable, I'm in. Social circle game is the way I can very quickly weed out non-interesting, boring women from the curious ones I'm into just by talking to them. One may call this excuse, I call this preference. That being said, I do plan on exploring other types of game once I move to an even bigger city (for my country's standards... 2 million is going to be laughable for Americans), maybe I'm just gonna get multiple social circles instead though. Problem with that is the social circles eventually get mixed up because I meet so many people. It's kind of insane. Out of other things you've listed, I'm definitely guilty of: 6. - on my own willingness. I believe I can do it without grouping, kind of more fluid approach (the P in the MBTI, bro!). Time's gonna verify that. I treat your categories as guidelines, not rules. Rules are too rigid for me. Should I get smacked in the ass for that, I'm going to reconsider. 1.- I'm a talkative and direct guy, so this is a hard one for me. The way I behave, my hedonistic/fun interests in life, etc. also seem to betray me quick. 2. - this one much. I seem to get oneitis-ish with almost any and every girl. Seems to be mostly my inexperience with women in general. I tend to easily find a particular thing that I really like about a girl and cling to that thing.
gene 2019-05-06 05:59:35
Suggest that under mistake number 3, "Talking about other men isn’t respectful" you change 'respectful' to 'disrespectful'. No sense confusing some people.
TonyOutOfNowhere 2019-05-06 06:16:07
Hey, about de-facto monogamy, finally I get to ask you this question. If I correctly remember, you say that if a guy enters into a live-in oltr arrangement, it's fine if he doesn't have as much sex with other girls as he did before. It only becomes a problem (and officially de-facto monogamy) if he's monogamous for six weeks or longer. So, my question, why the maximum of six weeks? Is it just something out of your ass or is there some empirical knowledge behind this?
Blackdragon 2019-05-06 07:38:16
Social circle game is the way I can very quickly weed out non-interesting, boring women from the curious ones I’m into just by talking to them.Social circle game, online dating, daygame, or night game. All four work. Just pick the one you like the best and get really, really good at it. It doesn't matter which one.
I’m a talkative and direct guy, so this is a hard one for me. The way I behave, my hedonistic/fun interests in life, etc. also seem to betray me quick.It's hard for a lot of guys. Shutting up is really, really hard for dudes, particularly extroverts. But it must be done on the first date.
2. – this one much. I seem to get oneitis-ish with almost any and every girl. Seems to be mostly my inexperience with women in general. I tend to easily find a particular thing that I really like about a girl and cling to that thinVery serious problem. Work on it and fix it.
Suggest that under mistake number 3Fixed. Thanks.
Hey, about de-facto monogamy, finally I get to ask you this question. If I correctly remember, you say that if a guy enters into a live-in oltr arrangement, it’s fine if he doesn’t have as much sex with other girls as he did before.Correct.
It only becomes a problem (and officially de-facto monogamy) if he’s monogamous for six weeks or longer.Six weeks or so; it's not an iron number, but yes.
So, my question, why the maximum of six weeks? Is it just something out of your ass or is there some empirical knowledge behind this?
Kurt 2019-05-06 07:58:22
@Blackdragon Would you consider discussing my and hers past relationships part or a subset of #1 verbalization? If so, should I just let her talk about hers and when she asks about mine, keep it vague or just say I don't wanna talk about mine just yet? Because it seems to me this can lead to many other things, including monogomy or cheating popping up too soon. But it's tricky and causes them to be suspicious if I'm too gray or don't demonize my ex's like most men and women do.
TonyOutOfNowhere 2019-05-06 08:21:21
You’re trying to weasel out of this. Don’t.I'm not. I accept my situation. After 8 months of living together, we still have sex twice a day on average. That's completely enough for me. The last time I had sex with a FB was in January, so it's definitely monogamy from your POV. That FB is still eager for my D and keeps contacting me, so if everything goes wrong with the OLTR, she is going to be responsive. It's some kind of conditional monogamy (and the OLTR knows it very well), but knowing you BD, you're going to be right at the end when the decision of mine comes to bite me in the ass. We'll see. I'll be the first me one to admit that you were on point. Thanks for answering!
notFmx 2019-05-06 09:54:48
Hey BD, great article. The "don't mix categories" definitely resonates with me. I get all the concept and the mindset behind this, but I sometime can't help doing stuff I shouldn't be doing for a particular type of relationship. For example, I sometimes go out to restaurants with FBs, or stay for the night lets say, just because I feel like it's what I want to do on the moment. Do you you believe one should rationalize and actively decide not to "mix things up", or do you personnally sometimes transgress those "rules" ? Thank you.
Blackdragon 2019-05-06 13:21:50
Would you consider discussing my and hers past relationships part or a subset of #1 verbalization?Once you've had sex with her twice, no. Verbalization is about the relationship you have with her, not with other women in the past.
I’m not.Yes you are. Watch...
After 8 months of living together, we still have sex twice a day on average. That’s completely enough for me.It's monogamous sex so its irrelevant (unless you don't mind huge amounts of drama and betaization coming your way in the near future).
The last time I had sex with a FB was in JanuaryAnd there you go. Four months. You were, and are, trying to weasel out of it.
so it’s definitely monogamy from your POV.It's monogamy from the dictionary's POV too. Again, you're trying to weasel out of what you're doing instead of taking full responsibility for what you're doing.
That FB is still eager for my D and keeps contacting meCompletely irrelevant if you're not having sex with her.
so if everything goes wrong with the OLTR, she is going to be responsiveRight now, perhaps. But 6 months from now? A year from now? You have no idea.
It’s some kind of conditional monogamy (and the OLTR knows it very well)Which doesn't work. Read this.
you’re going to be right at the end when the decision of mine comes to bite me in the assI know.
I’ll be the first me one to admit that you were on point.When why are you doing this? Don't answer. We both already know the answer.
For example, I sometimes go out to restaurants with FBs, or stay for the night lets say, just because I feel like it’s what I want to do on the moment.Yep. That's exactly what guys do. For years I ate doughnuts and cream cheese bagels all the time because I felt like it was the right thing to do in the moment. Do you think it was? Do you think it made me happy in the long term?
Do you you believe one should rationalize and actively decide not to “mix things up”, or do you personnally sometimes transgress those “rules” ?I don't break any of my rules, because I want long-term happiness instead of short-term happiness mixed with drama and chaos. But that's me. On the very rare times I've pushed the envelope on a rule or two (without totally breaking it), I did it with great forethought and analysis before I did it. And even then, this was well after I was at an advanced level of relationship management, not when I was a novice or intermediate at this. As I've always said, I'm an individualist, so it's your life. If you really want to break the rules, go ahead. If you want to get monogamous like Tony above and rationalize it about how much sex you're temporarily getting, go ahead. Just realize all of these things are going to blow up in your face later, and if you don't want that, you shouldn't do it. If you honestly don't mind drama and major problems in your life (I realize there are some men like this), then great, ignore all of my stuff and do whatever you want (but then I'm wondering why you're reading my blog).
Johan Rydholm 2019-05-06 18:09:20
When you refer to lock-in being sex twice, does that mean sex at two different times, or could it be twice within the same meet?
Blackdragon 2019-05-06 18:31:55
Two different times on two different meets. Sex twice in the same meet does not count.
Incognito 2019-05-06 20:03:43
I get the bit about not confusing categories. But I'd say if you take an FB out for dinner, let her stay over, it may not be about confusing categories, it's that you just promoted her to MLTR. I've got an excellent FB at the moment. Started off, she'd drop around for an hour or two before her work, every Friday. No drama, great sex, regular as clockwork. After about a year, I got to like her more, want to spend a bit more time. So I asked her around on one of her days off, we hang out a bit longer. I took her out to a simple no nonsense resto for dinner a few times, went with her when she had a tattoo made. The other night, she stayed over for the first time. I still only see her once a week. The first time I took her out, I thought about the BD Rule Book. But no, she's been promoted. So what's the difference between confusing the categories and changing a woman's status?
TonyOutOfNowhere 2019-05-06 21:03:41
Okay BD, yesterday I was drunk so I didn't convey my thoughts very well and got defensive.
It’s monogamous sex so its irrelevantWhy does this make it irrelevant? We had the same amount of sex before when we were open and would have the same amount of sex even if I had sex with someone else once every six weeks or so. Sex is sex. Also, look at this. The live-in oltr (aka my monogamous girlfriend) is going on a trip with her mother in a few weeks and she won't be home for a whole week. Since I'm very high-sex drive, I'm going to fuck the fb I was talking about. So then I won't be monogamous anymore and there will be no problems/dangers, right? The whole point I was trying to make is that you make this too much black and white. Monogamy = bad. Nonmomo = goos and no problems. Monogamy = having sex with nobody else but your main for maximum of six weeks. After that it's trouble. But I had no sex with anybody else for 4 months and it's working great. And I will have sex in a few weeks with a fb and won't be mono anymore so then everything will be magical all of a sudden? The problem I have is conceptual. I take responsibility for my actions, don't get me wrong.
Duke 2019-05-06 22:48:38
Short term versus long term my friend. And who cares if you don't do things like bd says. If you don't mind drama, her cheating on you, or her dumping you and possibly never coming back, then I don't see a problem. Stop seeking other people's approval. Own your shit.
Vincent 2019-05-07 01:34:48
So how would you handle having a lower sex drive than your OLTR? If I feel like fucking every once in a while, should I really tell her "well yes honey I'm finally in the mood again but it'll have to be with someone else, for our own good." Or do you tell her "just fuck someone else if you're in the mood, don't bother me"?
X 2019-05-07 03:47:17
So how would you handle having a lower sex drive than your OLTR? If I feel like fucking every once in a while, should I really tell her “well yes honey I’m finally in the mood again but it’ll have to be with someone else, for our own good.” Or do you tell her “just fuck someone else if you’re in the mood, don’t bother me”?Why do you get into OLTR with someone who doesn't match your sex drive in a first place?
Lazy Blitz, a Storm of Openers! 2019-05-07 03:50:41
I really highly recommend the Ultimate Open Relationship Manual.
So Good In Bed™combined with
So Hot™And that is definitely the one route for me to get oneitisish. Only the "no cuddles with FBs" rule I never follow, since my second date 5 minutes to sex, physical escalation technique from zero kino or very light first date type kinos, involves some cuddling, and it's really unclear at this point if this is even a problem or not for me as I position myself as a "very cuddly person who likes to cuddle a lot even just with friends". I am not super experienced with FBs though, as opposed to MLTRs that I navigate almost naturally.
For years I ate doughnuts and cream cheese bagels all the time because I felt like it was the right thing to do in the moment. Do you think it was? Do you think it made me happy in the long term?Where are you at with your diet currently by the way, few months back you had good progress. Are you still sticking with it? Keep up 🙂 I notice the mouse over glossary terms definitions only now. That's great improvement for the blog. What wordpress functionality or plugin are you using for that?
notFmx 2019-05-07 04:29:00
@BD : Thanks for answering. I definitely get the point you're making here.
Yep. That’s exactly what guys do. For years I ate doughnuts and cream cheese bagels all the time because I felt like it was the right thing to do in the moment. Do you think it was? Do you think it made me happy in the long term?and
As I’ve always said, I’m an individualist, so it’s your life. If you really want to break the rules, go ahead. If you want to get monogamous like Tony above and rationalize it about how much sex you’re temporarily getting, go ahead. Just realize all of these things are going to blow up in your face later, and if you don’t want that, you shouldn’t do it.To use the same analogy, I could probably say that I can eat doughnuts and cream cheese bagels on an exceptional basis, but I'd have to do a little bit more cardio at the gym if I want that doughnuts and cream cheese bagels not have any consequences. If you decide, lets say, to spend the night or eat out once or twice with a woman you consider an FB, without it necessarly blow up at your face if you do everything correctly afterwards. Though I definitely get the point you're making here, most of the times I can see that this "wrong" decision could bring some serious consequences and drama if not forethought. @Incognito :
The first time I took her out, I thought about the BD Rule Book. But no, she’s been promoted. So what’s the difference between confusing the categories and changing a woman’s status?I am currently slowly upgrading a woman from FB to MLTR also I would say that the difference is that if you decide to change a woman's status, it will then not be only, let's say, take her eat out once or twice, but getting on the habit of doing it and acting with her as if she is not an FB anymore. Cheers.
Kurt 2019-05-07 06:47:14
@Blackdragon In regards to Verbalizing too much and categorizing properly, I have a new situation arise this last week. I got a new lady been seeing past month or so and her friend already asked me if we are exclusive and if I am fucking any other chics (she asked me in front of the lady I am dating to try and put me on the spot or peer pressure me into saying yes). I nicely and firmly told her that is a private conversation for her and me to have. But here is the funny part - this lady I am seeing has another man that stays in her apartment (room mate) occasionally and is her "best friend" of 6 years, whom she has fucked before. They went out to lunch together yesterday. And she is going to expect ME to be monogamous soon!!?? So, my question is: 1) if this was Pink FF when you met her in the beginning, would you have ever moved her to OLTR or even MLTR status if she had a male "roommate" living with her? or should this issue change a woman's status with me? 2) when the talk comes up, should I even mention this situation really? It does not bother me or make me jealy at all. It is more that I am shocked that people that have ex's ( or someone they fucked before) living with them still and HONESTLY expect people to be monogamous just amazes me how dumb people can be lol. But if I bring this up, then she might kick him out and I still won't agree to it. So it seems like I should not even mention this but wanted your take... This dude was sleeping in the other bedroom while I was fucking her brains out Saturday night if that helps any? lol
Woodsy 2019-05-07 08:03:10
Excellent Post, BD - thank you! Reminders like this are always helpful for us practicing Alpha 2.0’s.
POB 2019-05-07 11:54:57
BD, I know this is completely off-topic, so I apologize in advance. But aren't you going to leave at least a note on nextasf before the final shutdown? I know it was on a death spiral for ages, like most pick-up forums these days, but that place was awesome on it's prime...it sure deserved better.
CrabRangoon 2019-05-07 13:46:07
BD, "Yet, a lot of guys still get oneitisish for an FB or MLTR who is So Hot™ or who is Not Like The Rest™ or who is So Good In Bed™." This is how I knew I turned a corner. Had a girl in my rotation last year that was very hot, a girl I knew from back in HS and started seeing. Things were fine for awhile then she started throwing some drama-she turned out to be quite a dominant (she's a doctor so I'm thinking that's part of it). I kindly told her I wouldn't be groveling at her feet and she was free to move on to someone else. We parted ways fairly amicably and I noticed something....I didn't care and just kept on with my other ladies. The old me would have probably tried to win her back just because she's hot and someone I wanted to bang since I was a teenager. Thanks to advice from blogs like this, men can break free of those old chains and live a much better life. Cheers!
iChef 2019-05-07 17:06:12
“When she was really drunk she said my pants and shoes looked gay. Unacceptable!” Hey, dumbass. She was drunk. Why are you taking anything she said seriously while she was drunk? Do you not know what drunk means?Oh yes. Those awkward moments when people say, to themselves first and then to who's around at the moment, what they really think. We are lucky it happens rarely.
Incognito 2019-05-07 20:30:14
Now you’re being silly and misquoting me. I have said numerous times that there are lots of problems and downsides to being monogamous, just that it’s more conducive to long-term masculine happiness, as you’re soon about to discover.You mean NON-monogomous, of course.
Kurt 2019-05-07 21:26:56
@iChef Ahhh yes the drunk ones show their true inner feelings! I have this one that every time she gets tipsy or drunk she gets this scared look on her face like she is worried and gets really quite. Then, she will say in her soft dove like voice, "Kurt....you really scare me". It used to bug me and I would ask her why she keeps saying this but then it hit me one day that this was a great thing since she has boomeranged like 3 or 4 x in 8 months. So now I just grin and say, "good" and slap her on the ass or take her to bed.
Blackdragon 2019-05-08 07:16:36
You mean NON-monogomous, of course.Yes. Fixed.
Blackdragon 2019-05-08 07:21:49
aren’t you going to leave at least a note on nextasf before the final shutdown?No. That will just generate drama and insults with no actual facts or points; as usual I have no interest in that kind of thing (unless it makes me money), as fun as that might be for some people.
I know it was on a death spiral for ages, like most pick-up forums these days, but that place was awesome on it’s prime…it sure deserved better.I agree. I moved on from there many years ago but Silvertree and the other mods worked very hard for a very long time. It's the way of things; times change, and you need to change with them if you want to be successful. We may not like that, but that's how it is. We're not deleting any content from the forum though. The content will remain; we're just disabling the ability to sign up or post. (This is off-topic so this will be my last comment about this in this thread.)
Found a diamond in the rough 2019-05-09 03:09:24
"When guys agree to an MLTR’s requests to meet her parents". What about actual poly situations? My husband and I have been together for 14 years and have had a few girlfriends just for fun, FB, if you will but eventually I would love for him to find a girlfriend we both connect with to be long term for him, eventually living in the same household with us. Wouldn't it be wrong to expect that level of commitment from her if she can't share him with her family as I do with mine? This is a serious question. I am not being facetious.
Blackdragon 2019-05-09 08:37:04
What about actual poly situations? My husband and I have been together for 14 years and have had a few girlfriends just for fun, FB, if you will but eventually I would love for him to find a girlfriend we both connect with to be long term for him, eventually living in the same household with us.That sounds great! I'd actually be open to a similar scenario with my wife. But what you're talking about isn't an MLTR.
Wouldn’t it be wrong to expect that level of commitment from her if she can’t share him with her family as I do with mine?The scenario you're talking about is extremely unusual and falls outside of the relationship categories I typically discuss here. You're talking about a man with two full-on girlfriends. My argument against that is that this side-woman would not last very long in your lives since she would know she's was the second favorite. Women don't mind being second-favorite for a while (sometimes they even like it), but not for the long-term. Thus, getting her to introduce you two to her family would likely just cause more problems (drama) due to her heightened expectations of something that would never likely happen (her becoming 100% equal to you, or surpassing you).
Farley99 2019-05-09 21:46:22
That sounds great! I’d actually be open to a similar scenario with my wife. But what you’re talking about isn’t an MLTR.I don't believe you've talked about this before. Can you clarify. Are you saying you're open to having a girlfriend alongside pink Firefly or pink Firefly having a boyfriend alongside you? I thought OLTR marriage requires only one pair bond?
Blackdragon 2019-05-10 11:28:41
I don’t believe you’ve talked about this before.That's by design. It's way beyond the ability of most of my readers and wouldn't apply to the vast majority of them.
Can you clarify.No. Too off-topic.
Are you saying you’re open to having a girlfriend alongside pink Firefly or pink Firefly having a boyfriend alongside you?No. As I said to the woman above, I don't think those kinds of models work long-term. I'm more talking about a "serious" or "high-end" FB or perhaps some kind of FB/MLTR hybrid rather than a 2nd girlfriend/wife. But like I said, it's off-topic to this thread and it's not something I would talk about on this blog, since it's more advanced information. I would instead keep it for a coaching program, online course, or something similar.
Incognito 2019-05-10 20:26:25
No. As I said to the woman above, I don’t think those kinds of models work long-term.I've got a friend who has anything up to four wives at a time in Jakarta. He even had two different children from two different women, about a week apart. He's not a Muslim or anything, more a Zen Buddhist. He's a bit too patriarchal to be described as Alpha 2.0, he's more a very chill A1.0. He somehow makes it work, although only one of the women has stuck around for more than five years. He seems to accept that 18 months is the natural life span for a marriage. He looks after his children pretty well, in a distant kind of way, spends a couple of hours with each one of them each week according to a schedule. They seem fond of him. I spent a few days on his boat, which got a bit cramped with two wives on board. Even during a typhoon, everyone seemed to be getting on fine. Oh, and he's 65 years old, too. Just goes to show, all sorts of weird configurations are possible.
J 2019-05-11 04:15:55
Hey BD, Have you ever had a mltr or oltr who gave you zero drama about fucking other women AND wasn't fucking anyone else but you? If so, was it a rare occurence or special circumstance of some sort?
Blackdragon 2019-05-11 07:48:04
Why is it ok to keep a fb in a situation like this?Because dropping an FB should be no big deal and bringing FBs back is often easier. And to be clear, doing that with an FB is also not a good idea and not ideal, but it does fall into the "acceptable" zone.
Also, in a situation like this how do the rules about seeing alone and only once a week apply?No change.
Regarding 7, it doesnt count if they are in the same “wide” social circle but only rarely meet, right?If they EVER meet, it counts.
When doing social circle game should an alpha 2.0 talk at all about his woman situation?No. It should be part of his strong EFA, but not necessarily spoken.
Does talking about his relationships in a social circle (which means that the information spreads and it may get to one of his women’s ears) count as verbalizing?If it involves other women that woman may know or have heard of, yes.
He somehow makes it work, although only one of the women has stuck around for more than five years. He seems to accept that 18 months is the natural life span for a marriage.Exactly my point. And he's outside of the Western world where this multiple girlfriend/wives stuff is more doable. I'm talking to Western men here.
Have you ever had a mltr or oltr who gave you zero drama about fucking other women AND wasn’t fucking anyone else but you?Yes, several.
If so, was it a rare occurence or special circumstance of some sort?Eh, I'd say roughly about 15% of the MLTRs I've had. I don't think 15% is "rare" or "a special circumstance," but it's certainly not the norm.
Tom 2019-05-12 21:42:11
Hi bd, recently i been inviting expart girls from online dating, some of them asked bring another cutie friend(s). Should i frequently do group dates maybe possibly close her on 2nd meeting by asking for 1-1, or just decline the offer right away. I'm looking at it b/c it can make it better interacting with girls in groups, but i also look at the fact i can't close it fast enough. p/s: most girls i've invited out is muslim/christian, btw.
Vincent 2019-05-12 23:33:12
If she wants to have sex regularly when you don’t, absolutely, you need to have a nice, understanding, loving talk about how she’s more than allowed to go get her needs met elsewhere because her sexual needs are different than yours. No problem.Of course. But I meant that in this case, being "non-monogamous" yourself is a more difficult thing to discuss. I'm sure most women can understand the versions of "look honey, I need it way more often than you, don't worry about me getting emotionally attached but I'll need to have a few FB on the side" or "I notice you want it way more than me, so feel free to get it elsewhere". The issue is more like her saying "I'm always here when you want it, which is rare, and now you're telling me that of those few times you are in the mood, you somehow need to do it with someone else?"
Wolfie 2019-05-13 08:47:13
"No change." How is seeing an fb regularly at a social gathering like a dance class not violating the rule about seeing her alone? An also, if it is a weekly event, unless you have sex with her right after or before the event, the once a week rule seems to be violated too. "If they EVER meet, it counts." This is a huge pain in the ass since the odds that any two of my ''target market" women dont ever meet are not very high. "No. It should be part of his strong EFA, but not necessarily spoken." So you basically dodge questions coming from a whole group of people like you would if you would game just one person? It seems to me that its very difficult to make friends and strong connections in a social circle without talking about such personal stuff. "If it involves other women that woman may know or have heard of, yes." Again, it is very likely that there are no connections between women of the same type so this is very inconvenient. Im following all the rules and have much trust in you but this social circle rules feel like hiding some times and like not leveraging my resources for attracting more/better girls.
Blackdragon 2019-05-13 09:03:14
some of them asked bring another cutie friend(s). Should i frequently do group dates maybe possibly close her on 2nd meeting by asking for 1-1, or just decline the offer right away.Always nicely decline the offer and push for a one-one-one meet (which you will probably not get). Success rates with "group first dates" are extremely low even if you do everything else correctly.
The issue is more like her saying “I’m always here when you want it, which is rare, and now you’re telling me that of those few times you are in the mood, you somehow need to do it with someone else?”The answer is yes. Just roll into all the usual items I discuss when discussing The Talk (that men are not monogamous, humans are not monogamous, the human need for variety, etc, sex drive has nothing to do with the biological need for sexual variety, she won't always want to fuck when you do, etc). Normal guys get the same excuse from girls sometimes: "You never have to fuck other women because I'll ALWAYS fuck you whenever you ask!!!" Uh, no you won't. That is not how women in long-term monogamous relationships work. That's the opposite of how they work.
How is seeing an fb regularly at a social gathering like a dance class not violating the rule about seeing her alone? An also, if it is a weekly event, unless you have sex with her right after or before the event, the once a week rule seems to be violated too. “If they EVER meet, it counts.”You're right. It's violating everything, it's not a good idea at all, and I personally would never do anything like that. All I was implying way above is that margin for these kinds of violations is a little easier with FBs (particularly if they're under age 23) than it is for MLTRs.
So you basically dodge questions coming from a whole group of people like you would if you would game just one person?No. I didn't understand your original question. You would keep specifics quiet as best you could, but you can still answer direct questions (without getting into details).
Again, it is very likely that there are no connections between women of the same type so this is very inconvenient.What you're saying makes no sense. Two women are either part of the same social circle or they are not. If they are not, then say whatever you want. If they are, you've got to be a little careful. That's it.
T 2019-05-14 00:00:40
Another great post!
Al 2019-05-26 16:43:45
BD, U say :"Guys who think it’s okay if their OLTR has a boyfriend on the side, thinking it’s acceptable since the boyfriend doesn’t know what she’s doing (it’s not; at least not for an OLTR" How would a guy necessarily know or not if his OLTR has a boyfriend or not ??