29 Oct How To Recover From A Blow-Off After A First Date
-By Caleb Jones
No matter how good you get with women, a strong percentage of your first dates will end up with zero results. As I talk about in detail in Get To Sex Fast, when a woman doesn’t want to see you again after a first date, it’s for one of only three reasons:
1. She wasn’t attracted to you enough (most likely reason).
2. She was attracted to you, but her ASD was too high or you did something on the date or over texts that spiked her ASD (less likely reason, but still very possible, especially with women over age 33).
3. She was attracted to you and her ASD was low but she was scared to see you again for some reason likely outside of your control (very unlikely but can happen).
The good news is that you have a strong degree of control over item 1 and a decent amount of control for item 2, especially if you stick with women under the age of 33. Read Get To Sex Fast for exactly how to control these factors.
When a woman doesn’t want to see you again after a first date, one of two things are going to occur. The most likely scenario is that she just doesn’t respond to your texts, or does respond to your texts, but as soon as you date-pitch a second date, then she doesn’t respond and ghosts you.
Sadly, most women will do this when they don’t want to see you again. There is both Societal Programming and woman logic that says that it’s somehow less rude to just ghost a guy rather than actually tell him you don’t want to see him again. Also, women know how needy and weird most men get when they are rejected, and they’d rather not go through that crap by telling men they don’t want to see them again.
The second scenario is that she actually does say over texts, in a very polite way, that you’re a nice guy blah blah blah but that she’d rather not meet again blah blah blah. If your approach is more beta male, sometimes she may even attempt friend zone by suggesting that you “just be friends” or that you hang out again but this time with mutual friends. (Obviously you should deny these requests, since friend zone is only for beta males who don’t desire happiness.)
I’ll be honest and tell you that once a woman has made up her mind to not see you again after a first date, she’s gone. There is nothing you can do. To confirm this, I went back through my spreadsheets over the last 10 years and hundreds of first dates, and not once, and I mean this now, not once was I ever able to sleep with a woman after she made the decision to not see me again after the first date. No matter what I did, not matter who she was, nothing worked.
The slight good news is that the two key words in that above sentence is decision and first date. You can indeed still have sex with women who are on the fence about seeing you again after a first date, since these women haven’t actually made a solid decision yet.
Also, you can indeed have sex with women who don’t want to see you after the second date. I’ve been successful turning those women around many times.
So if you date-pitch a second date with a woman after the first date, if she ghosts you or clearly says she doesn’t want to see you again, you’re done, delete her from your brain forever, and move on to the next woman on the list. Getting rejected after first dates is a part of the process no matter how good you are.
However, if she responds, seems friendly, and gives you a wishy washy answer like “I don’t know” or “I’m not sure” or “I want to but I’m kinda busy over the next few days because of blah blah blah,” then here’s how you respond:
1. Be nice and understanding. Statements like, “Yeah, I understand,” as beta as they sound, are helpful at this stage.
2. Press for another meet, but do so gently.
3. Very clearly state the “no pressure” vibe of the next meet. For example, “Yeah, I understand. How about this. We meet up next week just for an hour and talk at . That’s it. No big deal. If anything, maybe you could just end up as a cool friend.”
4. Answer any questions she throws back at you. A common one would be “What would we do?” The correct answer at this juncture is “Just talk. That’s it.” Don’t even say “hang out” (which could be construed as something like sex).
If you do all of this correctly, your odds of success are around 40%, independent of other factors. Give it a try. Just remember it won’t work on women who have made a solid decision about not seeing you again.
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Leave your comment below, but be sure to follow the Five Simple Rules.
James
Posted at 05:18 am, 29th October 2018I have a tall hot friend, Ryan Gosling lookalike, 8/10. Hot girls literally apologize to him for not having sex on the first date and beg to see him again. Showed me the girls pics and dayumm… Good looking men live in a different world
El Barto
Posted at 05:46 am, 29th October 2018Yes and no. A college roommate of my brother used to work as a male model. Backstreet Bruce we called him. But he was terribly shy with women. According to my brother he almost never went on a date or slept with many women, This changed however in his early thirties when he started is own business and had confidence in abundance.
Vanilla Boy
Posted at 05:52 am, 29th October 2018When you say, “after the second date,” do you mean when you have sex with them on the second date? I’ve had two cases in a month of women whom I had sex with on the second date, then after that they’ve gone a bit cool. In both cases, they seemed to enjoy the sex well enough, so I don’t think it was a case of crappy sex. I didn’t do anything obviously weird, and it all seemed to go well at the time.
I’ve tried to tread the narrow line between making it clear that I’d like to see them again, but not looking needy. I don’t feel needy, I can get laid elsewhere. I just try to keep the lines open, don’t ever appear annoyed or frustrated or make a claim, just pleased to hear from them if they drop a text. But it’s been hard to get them to come over again, silly excuses about busy with kids and job, etc, but they still seem to want to stay in contact.
It is a difficult line. No to friend zone, but also no to pushing too hard. Any advice?
Ash Pariseau
Posted at 06:47 am, 29th October 2018Any time I have blown off a guy after a first date, it was either because he wasn’t physically attractive to me or because there was no chemistry between our personalities.
If he didn’t get the hint, I’d just tell him that I wasn’t feeling it and hope he finds someone right for him.
One guy pressured me to see him again in a group date, so I went and I ended up seeing his friend.
Peter
Posted at 07:20 am, 29th October 2018Hi Bd, so if you did lack enough attraction on the first date or you spiked her asd, do you think that there is a way to fix that, if you can see/meet her somehow?
Tom
Posted at 07:24 am, 29th October 2018I had a girl gave me the same exact ”my schedule is full” excuses (i asked her out twice) on whatsapp, this was before #1 date probably (a) she was looking for friendship i didn’t give her enough (b) i wasn’t hot enough for her. I’ve had so many numbers generated from app —> whatsapp but most wouldn’t come out what has been the only reason?
back to the topic, ”i”ll let u know” is probably the most annoying reply compared to ”i’ll let u know, cause i’ve class on next tuesday.” etc,
”i’ll let u know”/ ”i don’t know” —> ”K”/ Cool
”i’ll let u know b/c i’m busy and i have to take care of my dog” —> ”okay, cool i’ll hit u up next week”/”cool let me know”
I don’t agree with over text, punish her immediately if she gives short, vague wishy washy reply with K!
Chili
Posted at 07:41 am, 29th October 2018I don’t think I’d call this a beta-sounding statement and more of an outcome-independent one, but to me it’s a subtle difference that’s hard to spot. There is a difference between being nice and being a doormat, and the tone of “yeah I understand” can change your intentions from no-pressure, don’t-give-a-shit OI to wimpy girly-man.
My first thought is maybe you are giving off player vibes too hard, but you aren’t pulling them to bed on the first date either. How old are these women?
Anon
Posted at 08:44 am, 29th October 2018I usually respond with something along the lines of “If Xday doesn’t work for you, let’s find another day that you can be certain about. Yday at hh?” The response is likely to clarify whether her “maybe” was a way of saying no or if her schedule is indeed problematic but she wants to make it work.
Note that if she doesn’t feel the inclination of working with you even a little bit to find a suitable time, what’s the point of meeting her at all when her attraction to you is that low?
John
Posted at 08:45 am, 29th October 2018I’ve turned the no second date into sex a couple times off of online dating but it’s always been when they where still not over their ex due to the fact they were still fucking them on the side and I was just to fill the time. I don’t text them after the date, wait a few weeks and then give them the “let’s be friends” (novel turn around) text. Wait a bit, keep talking, and once the fucking your ex thing blows up I aggressively and impulsively pitch a movie\tv night. Of course you won’t be doing either because now your the shoulder to cry on and the dick to ride on. I avoid this at all costs now (too old to be listening to girls crying about their exs) but the 2 girls I’ve done this with have never left me alone. I will always be their shoulder to cry on and dick to ride on.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:57 am, 29th October 2018No. I mean when I don’t have sex on the second date.
You’re right; if you have sex one time and then she doesn’t want to see you after that, you’re out.
One of society’s dirty little secrets is that women one night stand Alpha Males all the time.
I lump those two things into the same category. You weren’t attracted.
The same steps. Text her again, banter for a little, then pitch a low-pressure 2nd meet, move on if she balks. Odds of success = low, but worth trying.
Yeah, I’ve done this! A response of “K” really freaks girls out! It’s hilarious. It’s also better if you send a lower-case “k” instead of an upper case “K”.
Yeah, good point.
Vanilla Boy
Posted at 01:04 pm, 29th October 2018If you ask a woman to meet and she says she can’t because bla bla bla, the crucial point is that if she’s into you and she’s really busy that day, she’ll almost always suggest an alternative time herself. If she just makes the excuse without suggesting an alternative, then she’s just not that into you. If you suggest another time yourself, you’ll just come across as needy and annoy her, because she’ll have to go to the trouble of thinking of another brush off excuse. Best just to leave it. Wait to see if she contacts you again herself, in which case it’s on.
EDIT: This is after first date or after you’ve had sex. It’s not necessarily true for setting up the first date.
cw
Posted at 01:06 pm, 29th October 2018BD, I’ve been really curious about a similar phenomenon like this before the first date that I’ve never really seen you mention.
Conversation is going really, date pitched within 5 exchanges, they often agree to the date to some degree (like telling me what part of town they are coming from, confirming a time, asking me what to wear, etc.) then they don’t 100% confirm or respond to me sending my number.
Then they try and proceed to continue the conversation on the dating app.
My base assumption has been this is a time waster but there’s a lot of very attractive women ending up here for m.e
Caleb Jones
Posted at 02:02 pm, 29th October 2018I have mentioned this. You need to consider any woman who refuses to give you your phone number (or similar contact info) as very low odds of showing up to any first date, even if she confirms it. Gently tell her you need her phone number or some other easy way of contacting her outside of the dating site so you can confirm the first date 30 minutes before you leave. If she refuses, move on. If she agrees, confirm the first date this way right before you leave your home. If you don’t get a response, don’t go, and move on.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:14 pm, 29th October 2018Ok, I have vast experience with this from my super beta male days in college, and this cuts really close to my heart (I still have the emotional scars) so I’m going to expand on this psychology:
Truer words were never spoken!
What I’m about to say is for newbies and the recovering betas:
Us men mostly see and recognize the cruelty of false hope. If we have no interest in someone (whether a woman or a male friend), but that someone keeps pestering us, we are inclined to assist them in not wasting their time. We do this by simply telling them that we’re not interested and they need to leave us alone and find someone else.
We see this as being honorable. We just saved this person from wasting their own time and from the cruelty of false hope. It was an honest and clean break which allows both of us to obtain closure and peace of mind, so that we can both move on with a light (or lighter) heart.
By contrast, women see closure and peace of mind as being “rude,” “mean,” and “cruel.” They think that by being cruel to you and gradually starving you of any further attention and hoping you’ll get the hint (while lying to you over text by saying that they’re interested but just busy, thus giving you even more false hope) is them being “nice about it.”
I’m not kidding! Many women believe that selling false hope, avoiding closure, robbing the beta male of his peace of mind, and psychologically torturing him via ghosting and treating him like radioactive garbage is………..being nice! They don’t want to confront you and tell that they’re not interested because that would be………….mean!
It is the identical opposite of how us men think and, if you’re a beta male (and I was definitely one in college), it is one of the most exquisite cruelties and psychological torments that women inflict on men!
These women (in their minds) “being nice” by robbing the man of his closure and hoping he “gets the hint” (while giving him even more false hope over text by telling him that she’s just busy) can drive beta men to suicide!
In other words, they’re not being nice at all (even though that is what they tell themselves so they can feel noble). They are being selfish, lazy cowards.
When I became an alpha male, this is how I solved this problem (recovering betas take note):
1. Never listen to what a woman says. Only pay attention to what she does. Her words are not literal. They are the meaningless ramblings of a backwards rationalizing child who just wants to “get along” due to excessive estrogen and a lack of testosterone.
2. Follow the two texts minimum rule. If you text her once and she doesn’t respond, text her again, perhaps the next day. If she still doesn’t respond, delete her number. Don’t chase her. Chasing her will get you accused of stalking (ask me how I know). Perhaps you can text her a third time a month later, but I’m not too comfortable even saying that. If she still doesn’t respond after the third text (one month later), drop her.
3. Never put all your eggs in one basket. This is why you must be sleeping with multiple women. You should have at least three women on your rotation whom you’re already sleeping with, or who are already somewhere in your seduction process. Buy BD’s books! Trying to seduce one woman at a time (even if you don’t plan on monogamy) will make you involuntarily needy, which will put out unattractive behaviors, thus motivating the woman to give you false hope (you know, because she’s “nice”), thus beginning a vicious cycle which, in the worst case scenario, will end with police knocking on your door.
And finally, this one is optional, but it has worked wonders for me (though it’s due largely to my specific turn ons):
4. Try your best to look for women with feminine physical appearances, but masculine personalities. Not dominant, but independent. The more a woman thinks like a man or is told by her female friends that she’s the “level headed one” because she has a masculine and logical orientation towards life, the more likely two things are to be true:
A. She will be sexually liberated. Isn’t that what we want? She will think of sex like a man, and thus, like my girlfriend, she may be a female player and have six men on her rotation, or love the idea of open relationships. The more masculine, the more horny and wild. And don’t worry, she will have a feminine physical appearance, because she knows she has to in order to attract men.
B. She will be way more likely to say what she means and mean what she says. The more masculine a person is, the more literal they are with their words. In other words, she’ll have some honor, honesty, and integrity because she sees the world in masculine terms. She’s way less likely to ghost you or change her behavior without a verbal conversation or at least some official acknowledgement.
In other words, these types of women are win/win because of both A and B. At this point, these are the only women I want in my life because I click with them so well. Why put up with the torture of the other types? Even if I can adapt to the other types with game, why work if I don’t have to?
Hey, if you can find a physically attractive woman who has only male friends because she thinks women are too illogical and have too much drama, you’ve hit the jackpot, my friend. She probably sees having sex with her male friends (at least occasionally) as a sweet bonus. These types of women are usually bisexual (yet another sweet bonus for you).
Then again, I’m “pleasure of sex,” so you “thrill of the hunt” types will not take this advice. Neither will you more traditional (read: slut shaming) men who want feminine, conservative, and submissive girly girls. But this is the best advice I have.
Remember betas: Women will cruelly starve you of attention and hope that you get the hint. When confronted directly, they will give you false hope by saying that they’re busy but interested. This false hope will give you the green light to continue chasing them (in your own logical beta mind), which will, in turn, scare these girls even more, even though you’re just going by their words. You will become more aggressive in your pursuit due to this constant verbal reassurance from her that that is what she wants, until she either completely disappears or snaps and either rips your head off in public, or calls the police (or files a restraining order).
Don’t be the fool that I was in college! Stop thinking like a logical man! Learn from me and others. Take my above four pieces of advice. And become an alpha!
joelsuf
Posted at 04:36 pm, 29th October 2018This is getting progressively worse. It’s almost reaching critical mass. I have an FB who is not really attractive and she gets needy assholes hitting her up constantly. And they get massively triggered if she doesn’t say what they want to hear.
Chicks don’t mind being mean, but degenerate trash like Law and Order SVU has taught them that dudes don’t take rejection well and will do what Elliot Rodger did and kill people who reject them. I really hate how that show has become popular.
They recently did an episode involving incels and used their lingo and everything. As someone who has had an incel phase, I never once acted like that. But I DID want chicks to tell me if they weren’t attracted to me instead of providing false hope or not telling me anything.
Back in the day chicks had no qualms of telling dudes to fuck off. Wish it was still that way.
GoodSense3
Posted at 07:41 pm, 29th October 2018BD how come you only person that talks about ASD. No other dating coaches have even brought up topic really I notice.You make it seem like its one of the biggest factors in the game and that you cant have fun with chick sexually if her ASD is high. ASD even stops you for pushin for sex on 1st meetup huh? Most other coaches Ive never seen say dont try for sex 1st meetup accept u lol. How do you measure a chicks ASD levels? Can you do an article just about ASD lol. This ASD stuff is only for gynocentric cultures like the United States right?
Duke
Posted at 09:02 pm, 29th October 2018He doesn’t want ONS, so that is what his content is geared towards. Women that have sex on first date tend to feel like sluts, which will usually cause them to feel like they aren’t worthy of relationship; some people call this auto-rejection. This stems from the fact that most men do not respect sluts, and therefore not deem them worthy of a relationship. If you don’t mind ONS, AND don’t care if she rejects you or if you ever see her again, then escalate on the first meetup to your hearts content!
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:44 pm, 29th October 2018I’m not the only one. But yes, I talk about it more than most since:
1. There is a culture among PUA types that ASD “doesn’t matter” and that you can fuck anyone “as long as your game is strong enough” and that ASD is an “excuse for poor game.” (Which, granted, it can be for some guys.)
2. Many dating gurus either don’t acknowledge the difference in women’s age groups or focus only on women under 30 with whom ASD is much less of an issue.
3. As Duke said, I’m focused on long-term relationships, not ONS. ONS is a horrible waste of time in my view. If all you want are a long string of ONSs and nothing else then you can ignore much of my advice and just go for her pussy on the first date.
You can’t. You can guess, but you can only determine high ASD when she exhibits those behaviors.
Sure. Good idea.
No. You’ll also get a fair bit of it in socially conservative places like Taiwan, India, etc.
Vanilla Boy
Posted at 10:09 pm, 29th October 2018Just when I’m beginning to think Jack is a drivel-speaking moronic bigot, he comes out with pure gold. All this is exactly true. I’d add: Don’t try to understand motivations, or at least not by listening to what she says and taking it seriously. Seriously, she probably doesn’t know her motives herself, and if she did, you couldn’t rely on her to tell them to you. Just pay attention to what she does. Seriously, I like women. Some of my best friends are women. But they don’t speak straight about relationship stuff.
Leon
Posted at 11:49 pm, 29th October 2018Have you written any post about this? When a girl does this to me (which happens quite a lot lately, despite sex was great) I always assume she already has an FB or BF in her secret closet. There’re other explanations?
Johnny Doe
Posted at 01:09 am, 30th October 2018I’ve always thought the best indicator that a girl wants to fuck you is that she will make herself available at a time and place of your choosing on a weekend night and will not flake. And if she does, she’ll let you know days in advance and offer an alternative date and time. That’s what tells you everything, far more than anything else.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 03:11 am, 30th October 2018Now here is everything I said, except in musical form:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr8HKRTavM0
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:30 am, 30th October 2018Political correctness detected. Initiating red pill countermeasures now:
Well golly gee, it sure is good to be back!
Here’s a moronic thought: Instead of spewing meaningless ad hominems like an SJW who thinks debate is beneath him, maybe come up with some intelligent counter-arguments?
Otherwise, you’re kind of showing some bigotry of your own. You think I’m a bigot because……I trashed Islam, perhaps? Well, Islam is trash, so get over it. That’s just basic red pill knowledge. And I backed up my claim with arguments, unlike your anti-intellectual insults void of any meaning or explanation.
Grow up!
Anon
Posted at 04:41 am, 30th October 2018Your google-fu is lacking : ) https://alphamale20.com/2018/05/10/when-women-one-night-stand-you/
This is applicable and is good advice: https://nextasf.com/forum/nextasf/general/11816-how-to-determine-why-she-didn-t-like-you
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:41 am, 30th October 2018My larger point, however, was that being honest with a guy is the opposite of mean. Being mean is precisely what they do instead – selling false hope and making the beta gradually suffer.
Women tell themselves that it’s a way for him to save face, when, in truth, it’s a way for them to avoid adult responsibility.
Amen to that! I watched exactly two episodes of that filth and both reeked of PC: The one where they took the feminism side during gamergate and the one where they made fun of pizzagate and claimed it to be a hoax. Blue pill garbage!
Yep. The message is – being honest with a man will get you killed and psychologically torturing him is being nice for his own good. Absolutely disgusting!
Agreed!
Neil
Posted at 04:46 am, 30th October 2018In theory yes, but unless a girl is massively into you, your more likely going to have to do some work like find a mutually convenient time or accept a last minute cancellation and have to pin her down for another date.
A lot of guys think getting a date should be like texting your mate asking if he’d like to meet for a beer? i.e. “How about a beer Tuesday?” “Yep, 7pm!?”
If only it was that easy all the time.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 05:07 am, 30th October 2018There are other good reasons not to have sex with women on the first date (assuming you’re dealing with mainstream women). Like, you should first probably make sure she’s not some false rape accusing psycho who will have sex with you and then backward rationalize it as rape as soon as she discovers that you’re a Trump supporter, or something like that! This actually happened to a friend of mine last week.
Exactly the opposite!
ASD does not mean that the woman will reject you because she isn’t attracted to you. It means, she will reject you despite being very turned on by you, due to her cultural programming.
So, which countries have the lowest ASD? The United States and western countries.
Which countries have the highest? All the countries outside the West which look down upon so called “western whoredom.”
You’re way more likely to get ASD from a Saudi Arabian virgin than from an American woman who lost her virginity at 13 and has fucked 20 guys by age 18.
ASD still exists in the West, but not nearly to the extent that it exists outside the West.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 05:16 am, 30th October 2018She didn’t one night stand you despite the sex being great. She did it because the sex was great.
Some possibilities:
1. The great sex made her feel guilty for liking it so much (ASD), so she decides to never see you again because “this was so wrong and he’s now probably gonna want more of that and I can’t because I’m not that kind of girl, but I could see him if only I wouldn’t have ruined everything by sleeping with him.”
2. She’s a thrill of the hunt woman who thinks one night stands are hot and fucking you again would take away from the hotness.
3. Or yes, she could be married or taken, which wouldn’t be problem for me, but she might be terrified of getting caught.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 05:24 am, 30th October 2018Which is obviously unacceptable, since alphas don’t do friend zone.
Which is unacceptable to me, since I don’t deal with women with high ASD.
Yeah, like if she’s fucking another dude so she wants to put you in a holding pattern. Which is the same as the second reason. If she didn’t have ASD, she wouldn’t care about fucking a second dude as well while working out her issues with the first dude at the same time.
So basically, to an alpha, all three reasons are unacceptable, and therefore, great reasons to never see her again and find a more compatible woman!
Vikingpua
Posted at 07:53 am, 30th October 2018Jack Outside The Box
Man,join the Alpha 2.0 community,or come back on nextasf, we need the wisdom of a truly red pill man.
Also you said that you created a blog of yours,if you created a blog,what is the link to that blog.
(Also BD said that it will ban you if you will talk about your blog,here,so if that is the case share the link on nextasf or on A2.0 community).
Seriously,all the post on nextasf of yours are a goldmine in order to get redpilled.So continue to share your knowledge.
Bulma78
Posted at 08:58 am, 30th October 2018I think women sometimes do this due to fear. (it’s either that or they’re just biotches)
If they were to straight up just tell a guy, “thanks for the date, but I don’t think we had any chemistry/or the attraction wasn’t there, so I don’t want to see you again.” …..Maybe women fear that such a bomb would come as a shock and cause him to react with anger or he may start stalking her?
By her slowly detaching herself, she figures he may gradually get the hint and not react in a harsh way….letting him slowly get used to the idea that this may not be working out after all and it’s starting to sink in that she may be fading away………and let it be his idea to give up rather than make me be the one to tell him “sorry but it ain’t working out”. (I don’t want a guy getting angry at me or threatening me or showing up at my work or at my house if he has a temper.)
Not that this is the kind of person that I am. I’m not at all a girl who is a partier/outgoing type and dating all kinds of guys and then blowing them off, but there have been a few guys that I’ve given some false hope to because I was a little afraid of how they might react if I told them something they didn’t want to hear. I’m not even sure if I needed to be worried or not about that, but it was just my gut feeling, I guess because I’m submissive. Guys have ditched me too though; completely just stopped calling me with no explanation, no nothing, so we’ve all been guilty of it.
John
Posted at 09:26 am, 30th October 2018Most men who get laid a lot do the same thing. Guys who get laid a lot know that women understand what the no response means. They just got the Ole Banana in the Tailpipe. In my experience women hate verbalized rejections no matter what they say. I have had like one women say “hey no problem!”.. It’s usually “Omg I can do better!!” Or “What did I do wrong!!” or “lol, okay!!” or the thumbs up. and then you have the nutjobs who you end up having to block. I have rarely (you might get something like “nice one dickhead!” on occasion) received a nasty text after I just kind of faded away. And on top of it you’re much more likely to get them to fuck you later on when you just fade away. Seems counter to logic but it’s a true in my experience. Only reason I can think of is insecurity.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:48 am, 30th October 2018Vanilla Boy – Personal attacks are not allowed on this blog. If you do it one more time, you will be banned. Attack statements and behaviors, not people.
That is my first and last warning.
Liquorice
Posted at 12:43 pm, 30th October 2018@Jack – Question:
As a red pill man, I am sure you are aware of the research on women with a high n-count and how it affects their ability to pair bond.
Is this something that you worry about with your girlfriend, especially since you are planning to have five kids (to piss off George Soros – thank you, that statement made me snort my drink all over my keyboard).
I think it might be very possible that because your girl thinks logically and like a man, she is able to compartmentalize sex and love. Additionally, like a male, she will have a scatter the seeds vs. the feminine scarcity mindset.
Alternatively, with men getting more feminine (thanks to social programming and increase in estrogen), I would assume that there is also an increase in men with a scarcity mindset (hence all these beta men wanting to go monogamous).
POB
Posted at 01:19 pm, 30th October 2018I’ve won flakey chicks over with a simple:
“then let it be
you’re probably as busy as myself
not my intention to disturb your routine”
Sit and watch they explain how they can’t get a freaking schedule together LOL.
Truthteller
Posted at 02:10 pm, 30th October 2018Man, this stuff is hard.
So when I first tuned in here (I’m the short 5’4 hispanic guy) I had fairly recently left a monogamous relationship and was annoyed about POF and the daunting prospect of attracting women I’m attracted to.
…
And I still am.
It’s a little different now, though.
I have yet to get a match or response from a woman where I am (1) attracted to her in pictures and (2) she looks like her pictures when we meet up.
Two weeks ago, black chick 25 y/o (I’m 32) — super hot in pics, faintly looked like a curvier version of Gabrielle Union — met up, and she’s heavier than advertised. Still bangable, hot face, but…
…funnily enough, on this date we attracted the attention of this older 40 y/0 white woman, who in her words ‘was a model/stripper,’ whatever (I believed it, if she lost like 10-15 pounds — she had huge cans and had a cute face), who proceeded to drunkenly bombard me and black chick with her drama about her bf and how she never cheats and no one values her loyalty. I took in stride, and this impressed black chick.
So I take black chick to car and set up next date at her place. I try to avoid the kiss, but she kisses me a little (I cut it off as best I can — I’ve been reading).
I go back to the bar to sober up, and one things leads to another and I end up taking the other chick back home (weirdest shit ever…she kept talking about how she’d never do that to her bf — DURING THE ACT —…but here we were. I really gained a huge appreciation for this blog with this weird-as-fuck experience. We did what we did then I just dropped her back at her car at the bar, no number exchange, contact info, nothin — she seemed way high drama).
The day of second date with black chick, she changes it up and wants to meet near by where she works (presumably) with her and some co-workers. well, that’s over. didn’t even respond.
Proceed to go on probably five or six first dates over the next two weeks. One is this chick who looked hot in her pics, like a suicide girl, and looked literally nothing like that on the date. Stupid me, though, when she agreed to smoke some pot at her place, I agreed. Until I got there and the vibe just shifted to a real ‘friendly’ vibe and how she’s looking to take things ‘really slow.’
Another is a chick who looks SMOKING hot in her pics. Blonde, blue-green eyes, yuge cans. Meet her in person, and she’s pretty overweight — goddammit — still has nice cans and face though. But, get her to agree to sit out in her car with me and chill for awhile. Deadend, and I’m confused. She was talking about how she was all wild and stuff a few years ago (she’s 25)…but whatever, we set a date for next time at my place. The next day she’s texting me, alone, and I ask if she wants me to come over. She says nah she’s about to sleep, then she asks ‘wait, why would you want to come over?’ I immediately realize that this is a ‘I’m a lady now’ type of woman and that she’s planning on making me wait for a billion years before sex. I (probably foolishly) put this up front and center about sex soon, if ever (but I realize fast it’s because I feel like I’ve been gypped…this chick isn’t even that hot AND gave it away to everyone else — FML!).
Another is an asian/filipina who’s cute and petite and looks like her pics, but instantly gives me a deathglare when she sees me at the bar. Then she proceeds to sit at the bar and look at the game, facing away from me. I try to engage her in conversation, I even say ‘hey we don’t have to stay if you don’t think I look like my pics or you’re not feeling it,’ to which she says she’s fine. After a few minutes of her being a dead fish, I just pay for my drink (she walked in and ordered a water), and leave. To which she almost screams “YOU’RE LEAVING?!” and storms out. WTF?
Another is a chick who seems really cute in photos and when I see her in person, she’s like 70% of the way there. As in, maybe 10 pounds to lose instead of 30 like blondie all star. First date goes well, I feel proud of myself for really executing BD’s system and shutting up, touching her, getting us touching. She seems fairly loose (whatever), and she seems to still hang around with an ex sometimes (who she says she ignores — lol). I even executed the hug correctly at the end!
We meetup at her place and things go pretty well. We smoke (it’s her weed, she got it and the day before smoked with her ex — lol at how not self-aware chicks who are allegedly looking for a relationship are) and then we go and lay down and we’re about to get intimate, but I realize that I left the condoms I bought at home. Stupidly, we’re about to go through with it anyway when she backs out last second ‘no, no, wait this isn’t happening.’ So, fine…I (stupidly) fall asleep with her in her bed. Then, on the way out she’s making out with me, talking about how we should hang out at her parent’s house who are going to be away in two days, how she’s DTF when we get condoms, whatever….and then, radio silence. So a few days later I shoot a text asking if she lost interest. she says yes she doesn’t think we’re compatible. Here, I think I correctly surmise that she just got with her ex (who is with someone else) and is into him atm. No big loss…but I’m still trying to build a roster of some type here.
Usually all I read in the comments are superstars like jack or joel talk about how they’re just smashing the shit out of hot babes left and right, so it’s frustrating to be having so much trouble here with THESE women.
The real hotties online who look like their pictures have yet to match with me or bite yet.
Posts like these are good for me to know that at least some portion of this is just variance — I’m trying to get better.
While I do use good photos, I am going to get pro photos done. I’m just waiting until I finish my cut so that I look my absolute best.
POF = terrible for me, Tinder = I get a fair number of matches, but they’re all pretty low quality, Bumble = by far the best for me, but all of the cute matches that have reached out to me have not been as advertised, and the hot matches I’ve gotten have just disappeared.
My main problem here is that I’m still working on my mental health while trying to do all of this. I have a high sex drive, so I do need some semi-decent regulars, and I’ve gotten into therapy and am on some meds that have started to somewhat work.
I’m still somewhat gobsmacked at how little women value men, generally, though. But I’m putting in the numbers.
Truthteller
Posted at 02:23 pm, 30th October 2018Oh wait, sorry…take it back. The Asian was pretty cute and looked like her pics…
…and she HATED me
😀
john
Posted at 04:17 pm, 30th October 2018@truthreller..
Usually they don’t look like their picture unless their very young.. women are experts with camera angles, editing, and filters these days. The older they are the worst it is.. I’d mix in some sugar daddy game if you want a high number of insanely hot chicks who don’t want a relationship.. I know 30 olds who do it just for the reason you named and it’s much easier to get them on a date.. they pitch me sometimes when I do a blitz..
Ash Pariseau
Posted at 07:23 pm, 30th October 2018I think a lot of women don’t want to be honest when they reject a guy because they don’t want to hurt his feelings or be the reason the guy is disappointed. Or they don’t want him to get mad and stalk and harass her or her next boyfriend.
Then with some guys, it doesn’t matter what you say. You can tell them to fuck off all you want, but it does happen when they really start to force you to damn near get a restraining order against them. Or they’ll pop up in a text, fb message or email, every 6 months just to see if you’re single and have changed your mind.
When they ghost, they can at least have the hope that the guy thinks she’s just busy but she’s secretly hoping he meets someone else and escapes any bad feelings or drama.
Not that it’s any excuse, but that’s at least my take on why women do it. It may be the same for why guys do it.
Vanilla Boy
Posted at 07:44 pm, 30th October 2018That seems like a fair enough approach. Nothing wrong with a biannual check in. Women DO change their minds.
joelsuf
Posted at 09:59 pm, 30th October 2018“ASD doesn’t exist” crew checking in. Wanna know why ASD doesn’t exist for me? It’s because I know I can find a chick out there who does NOT have ASD. I just need to find it. Outcome independence, bois. If you have outcome independence, you don’t care about ASD. You simply keep getting at chicks until you find one who’s just as horny as you.
Why are you even remotely butthurt about that? It means I don’t need to take chicks seriously if they don’t see me as a significant blip on their radar. If I was somehow “important” to them, now all of a sudden I need to watch what I say and do or else I’ll get #MeToo’d.
If I’m not on their radar, I can come in from under it.
You actually aren’t. Or at least not enough to where you can consider yourself outcome independent.
How do I know this?
You just listed off a small smattering of chicks you interacted with. I wouldn’t be able to do that if you paid me.
You come across as incel, Truthteller. And I don’t mean that as an insult, I say it with sympathy. I had a phase just like yours. Even thought there was a conspiracy against me. I’ll be doing a series about incels in my blog pretty soon, be on the lookout for it. You’ll get a lot out of it.
X
Posted at 10:22 pm, 30th October 2018This guy is a total beta but the way he filled the pipeline is amazing. You won’t care about blow offs when you have three first dates per day scheduled for months in advance.
https://medium.com/the-mission/looking-for-the-one-how-i-went-on-150-dates-in-4-months-bf43a095516c
Truthteller
Posted at 11:02 pm, 30th October 2018According to Maslow, human beings need to feel esteemed by others…I’m human.
I’m a beginner, it’s true…
What makes you think I listed all of them? And I guess memory is now mutually exclusive with outcome independence, something I already admitted I don’t have and am working on?
Not sure how per the literal definition of the word. Unless you mean someone who wants to have sex with attractive women consistently but can’t…but that’s not the normal usage.
Idk, this all seems like an unnecessary taking the piss to be honest…
So you associate me with a label that really doesn’t fit me per the definition and is a label that most anyone would find a bit insulting to hold, then expect me to read something you are writing about ‘incels’ generally (not tactics or anything practical)…
…like, no thanks.
I’m new, I admit it, I’m working, and I was thanking the blog proprietor for writing posts like these that are ENCOURAGING.
I did not try to come off like I’m an expert, so if you got a cocky vibe or whatever, that wasn’t the intent. I just jotted down some experiences and related them to the content here. Is that not allowed?
If I come across as an incel to you, you come across as just sort of rude to me.
C Lo
Posted at 02:27 am, 31st October 2018That’s a shockingly good article, X.
That guy could meld BDs online dating book with what he’s doing and really next level things, but he’s intent on searching for “that one special girl” so he’s already on a fools errand.
On an unrelated note, one of the ladies in my office told me today “oh, you’ll meet someone soon and get remarried in a couple of years”. I was like SMDH. I dunno what frame I’m projecting that anyone who’s conscious remotely thinks I want to get married, or worse, I am married, but I get it all the time. I lived that Lonely Island “Diaper Money” life with my ex, why would I wanna do that again? The call of “The Prison” is strong.
Im going out tonight and station up on the corner of the cool bar near my office. It’s All Skanks Night and I wanna go catch the show.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:21 am, 31st October 2018I sincerely believe that that “research” is garbage. When a Disney girl is taught all her life that pair bonding = monogamy, of course the research is going to show that the more sex partners a woman has, the less she can pair bond.
Thanks to cultural brainwashing, sexually traditional women (and low sex drive women in general) break their emotional bond with their partner in order to cheat, because it is inconceivable to them that they can cheat without “breaking the bond.”
But if you simply separate monogamy from pair bonding, the “research” simply shows that it’s harder for women to be monogamous if they had a lot of partners. This means that it’s harder for them to emotionally pair bond to the extent that emotional pair bonding is associated in their brains with monogamy!
Break that association and the “research” falls flat. That’s yet another reason why I stick with red pill women (and some purple pill women as fuck buddies) only. Who cares if lots of partners make it harder for women to be monogamous? Who wants to be monogamous anyway? And who wants a traditional woman who associates monogamy with pair bonding, thus making it harder for her to pair bond unless she has a low partner count? Fuck that!
No. My girlfriend is very pair bonded to me. We’re just non-monogamous. And she isn’t a culturally brainwashed fool who associates the two.
But your question is timely, because she recently announced that she has just reached 100 lays! Now that she has slept with 100 men (not bad for a 25 year old girl), she says she wants to tone it down for a while and fuck only those she’s already doing it with. And she’s cutting her regular rotation from 6 to 3 (me, one other occasional guy, and her lesbian friend with benefits), while not counting her friends whom we will still regularly partner switch and have group sex with on occasion.
It’s funny though because, despite what she said, her lay count will go above 100 tomorrow, since she and her lesbian FWB are going to a Halloween swingers party with brand new men attending. When I pointed this out to her, she said, “Well guys on Halloween don’t count.” HAHA! She may not be a feminine girly girl, but she’s still a woman!
Actually, interesting development here:
As you may know (if you’ve been following me on this blog), I was supposed to get her pregnant earlier this year, but she became extremely nervous and started saying, with tears in her eyes, “what if I fall and hurt the baby?” and “what if I eat something bad and accidently kill the baby?”
She can be extremely tender and (dare I say it) feminine when she wants to be, especially at the prospect of becoming a mother. So we put the baby making project on hold until she started talking about it on her own initiative one month ago.
I told her that I want to have at least five kids, but with her level of nervousness, she said she’d rather have only one or two “inside her body.” But because having more is really important to me and she really loves me, she actually started playing with the idea of allowing me to impregnate one or two of her friends within her Wiccan circle (whom she trusts) so that I can have my five, but not necessarily all with her.
On the one hand, I think she is crazy, since impregnating another woman definitely violates OLTR rules. On the other hand, I have fantasized before about having kids with 3 or 4 women and raising my own genetically diverse army, but I was always under the impression that I need to be a billionaire (or at least a millionaire) in order to pull such a thing off. Her response: “Stop being silly. These girls are my friends and I have money.”
Again, I’m still in the “this is crazy” phase, but she just smiles at me and says “no rush.”
LOL! You’re welcome!
That is mostly true, yes. That’s why I picked her!
But it’s interesting, because even though she has a hyper-masculine orientation when it comes to sex (she is also bisexual), she does have feminine tendencies, especially when it comes to having kids, her Wiccan religion, and the color pink, lol.
I actually like her this way, because if she were to become more masculine she’d be a lesbian, or at least dominant instead of independent, which I, of course, wouldn’t tolerate, lol.
Correct! You should see the beta boys in her Wiccan circle. Pure friend zone material.
Leon
Posted at 04:55 am, 31st October 2018Cool, Jack. I totally agree that sometimes this could be the case.
Is there a solution though? I think not.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 06:17 am, 31st October 2018Thank you. But I am passionately hated over there on nextasf. If I would have received more encouragement from men like you, I would have stayed. The only reason I even stayed as long as I did was because people were supporting me via private messages.
But most public comments wanted me gone and even falsely accused me of being fake, a liar, and “not a real seducer” just because I have nothing to do with nightclubs or night game and because I challenged their precious “thrill of the hunt” philosophy and suggested pursuing sex-positive women only.
I do drop by there from time to time though. Like internet herpes, I pop in every now and then, stir up trouble and dissention, and then go away again. Want me to stay longer? Show publicly that you support my presence there.
January!
But please, let’s respect BD’s rules and not talk about it again. I’ll link to it here when it’s ready.
Thank you so much! The next time I’m there, be sure to tell Silvertree that you consider me a useful poster. It will help me stay longer without being asked to leave.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 06:45 am, 31st October 2018Thrill of the hunt men, yes.
First of all, I wasn’t necessarily commenting on how men should treat women. Yes, most women are obviously familiar with non-verbal feminine language and sub-communication, so you ghosting them will not be nearly as hurtful as them ghosting betas. I freely concede that.
Second, there is a difference between simply no longer responding to them vs. giving them false hope by affirmatively lying to them. “Oh yeah, I’m interested. I’ve just been soooooo busy this week. Try me again next week.” This is false hope and a delaying tactic used virtually exclusively by females. This is different than simply ghosting or not responding.
Third, it’s one thing if you ghost a woman after a one night stand or first date. It’s quite another when she is obviously pestering you and clearly wants to see you again even after you haven’t responded. At this point, most men (at least those who aren’t thrill of the hunt) will text her back and put her out of her misery. They will NOT lie to her and say, “oh definitely keep trying, I’m just busy.”
So there’s obviously a difference here between masculine and feminine communication styles, as the feminine conception of “niceness” is transmuted into the masculine conception of ” cruelty.”
If she asks you what you did wrong, tell her.
Then block them. At least you can’t be accused of deception or blamed for forcing the woman to operate in the dark.
Then that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about permanently ghosting someone, or lying to them by feeding them false hope when, in truth, you are not interested in them and never will be. But they’re clearly pestering you.
What do you do? Make sure that you keeping them in the dark is not the cause of their annoying behavior. Otherwise, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 07:10 am, 31st October 2018Pathetic. It’s all about “feelings” with you feminine types, isn’t it?
Don’t you get it? He’s clearly stalking you anyway! But, thanks to you, he’s doing it in innocence! By refusing to tell him what’s what and even lying to him (I’m busy, keep trying), you are preserving his innocence!
Then, after preserving his innocence by keeping him in the dark, he interprets that as reassurance and a green light to keep trying even more aggressively. This, in turn, scares you even more, so you proceed to ruin this innocent man’s life (after doing your part to cruelly maintain his innocence) with a restraining order or a police report which will send him into a state of shock, which precisely may result in the very violent rage that you wish to avoid because you were so two-faced.
Men tend to get angry at deliberate deception, especially if it hits them like a ton of bricks after you buttered him up with your reassurances and lies!
At least if you’re honest with him, you take away all his excuses. In doing so, he is no longer innocent. As such, if he continues annoying you, you can get a restraining order or call the police guilt free, because it is no longer your fault. And he has no more justification to be mad at you, or violent, if you take any legal action against him.
But women like you aren’t interested in justice. Just feelings and convenience.
The point of telling a man to “fuck off” isn’t so he won’t stalk you or so you can avoid filing a restraining order (although, very often, telling him to fuck off will have that positive effect).
Rather, the point of telling him to “fuck off” is to purge yourself of any guilt or complicity in his actions by taking away his innocence and excuses. This way, if he still pesters you, your conscience is clear and you can ruin his life with full justification if he doesn’t leave you alone.
Men are literal because they want justice. But women use language like a man uses a screwdriver. It is just a practical tool to smooth things over, even at the expense of truth, justice, and dignity. Sad.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 07:26 am, 31st October 2018Once a woman has made a firm decision to one night stand you, there is really nothing you can do. The only “solution” is to change your own behavior before she makes the decision. BD talks about being 85% lover and 15% provider in terms of your vibe, instead of 100% lover. Subtle things like that may change a woman’s mind, but only before she makes up her mind.
It’s difficult though, because it depends on the specific woman and the circumstances of the unique individual case.
Anon
Posted at 07:36 am, 31st October 2018Jack, I’m a man and I’m not interested in justice, just feelings and convenience. I want to feel good, and so do you (why else would you be having sex from time to time?). I want convenience, and so do you (why else would you live in a modern house?). I’m not placing a high priority on annoying people being brought to justice, I only care about not being annoyed.
Your blame is misplaced. It’s men who won’t take no for an answer who caused this (imperfect of course) adaptation in women.
John
Posted at 09:06 am, 31st October 2018Yes I’m pretty much thrill of the hunt and yes I said fading away. No initiation of contact unless maybe there was sex, delayed responses, no promises, and if you do decide to answer it’s casual until you just don’t talk again. 1) They always understand 2) it’s your fucking prerogative. As long as I haven’t promised anything, I don’t explain shit.
Now this is’t directed at you necessarily but as far as “ghosting”, I don’t worry about a woman’s feelings when nothing has been promised. Worrying about whether something is ghosting or not is about the most beta thing a guy can do. It’s pathetic. Alpha males don’t sit around worrying about that shit. Besides, these women are all talking to 10-15 dudes if they’re half way decent. getting a 1000 messages. If I go out with a woman 1 or 2 times and there’s no sex and I didn’t promise them anything I don’t owe them shit. And they know that unless their nuts. If I decide not to respond then i don’t respond. Beta males are the only ones sitting around attaching labels like “ghosting” and worrying about that shit. “Some girl did that to me, it was cruel, and I cried so I would never do that to someone else”. Jesus.. Meanwhile that girl you “ghosted” is getting a 1000 messages a day. And if a girl fucks me, sucked my dick, and then ghosts me, thank god. I don’t worry about why.
joelsuf
Posted at 09:46 am, 31st October 2018Legit. Look at all the boys who fell for PUAism, failed, then formed incel circles. It’s insane how dudes are more obsessed with their feelings than chicks are.
Ash Pariseau
Posted at 10:19 am, 31st October 2018Jack, I don’t disagree that it’s pathetic. Women have become much too indirect. They aren’t creating and enforcing firm boundaries with these men properly. If they were, they would know not to keep pestering these ladies, at least not without consequences.
C Lo
Posted at 11:33 am, 31st October 2018Serious question:
If you are working BDs system “correctly” why would you care about getting blown off by some chick?
Even if you weren’t working his system, why would you care?
They are women. Replaceable. Not rare. Like sandwich shops in a strip mall. Always coming and going, always another around the corner.
Small Survivor
Posted at 11:51 am, 31st October 2018@ Jack: Correct me if I’m wrong. I believe what you are referring to with “justice” is actually saying what you mean and meaning what you say, aka “straight talk”. That’s a masculine attribute and usually men work like this because we biologically approach the world more objectively and logically. Women approach the world more emotionally and irrationally, this is biological too. I don’t think one approch is better than the other beacuse IMHO a very important part of maturing as an adult is precisely getting to understand the opposite approach.
Sadly, women won’t change their behaviors and more beta males will suffer. This is one of the reasons the red pill exists.
@C Lo: tell that to Beta males…
C Lo
Posted at 11:53 am, 31st October 2018In fairness, the reason why they can’t get laid isn’t because they lack PUA skills. They are incels for a reason, and they got into PUA precisely because they were incels!
Women hate incels. Men hate these guys too. They deserve to be scorned.
I wanna riff a bit on BDs original post comments and something JOTB wrote about his betazied days with my experience. You can get sideways with someone and get ghosted (or breadcrumbed which is more dangerous) after one date, two months after lock-in, or twenty years. It can literally happen at any time.
This is important:
If you suspect – even the tiniest bit – she’s putting distance between you, gets cold, asks for space, whatever, pursue her at your own peril. If there is another man remotely in the picture you will be painted as the stalker in a second.
My suggestion is to follow BDs gold standard advice and ghost her for 3-6 months. If you aren’t around her, you can’t screw it up.
Better still, get your head straight, and replace her.
hollywood
Posted at 12:18 pm, 31st October 2018So what. Pay attention to what she does, not what she says. You let her get in your head. I’d have told her that since she’s alone I figured maybe she’s bored and wanna see me. If she asks “for what” I’d say “whatever you want, it would just be nice to see you.” If she still gives you shit, maybe you’re right, but I’d still have tried to get over there one way or another. You just can’t say it’s about sex, but she knows it is unless you say something stupid like “you won’t try anything” or something like that. (My FB had a guy whom she eventually got in a relationship with, ask to come over and she’s over 33 and gave him shit and got him to say “Nothing will happen I promise, no sex.” And then she had sex with me afterward lol.)
You went beta. Put yourself in her frame. Made yourself the chaser. Gave her the power. Who the fuck is she to lose interest? If you needed to text her a few days later, I would have asked when she wants to meet up again. Make her flat out reject you. Behave as though you didn’t even conjur the idea that a few days of silence could mean she has lost interest in you. Women never lose interest in you. (mindset)
C Lo
Posted at 02:37 pm, 31st October 2018Theres a philosophy in sales called “assume the close”. What he did was “give her an excuse to dump him”, and it was worse than literally doing nothing.
That wasn’t beta, that’s just dumb.
C Lo
Posted at 02:41 pm, 31st October 2018Why would I tell those chumps anything? It doesn’t help me and those scarcity mentality laden oneitis guy Disney fools can’t or won’t listen.
Dont waste your time on the sick and nearly dead. You’ve got other fish to fry.
joelsuf
Posted at 05:16 pm, 31st October 2018While most of them don’t deserve respect, a minority of them are worthy of help. To me they are a decent niche for an Alpha 2 business (those who actually WANT to be helped, anyways).
Small Survivor
Posted at 06:11 pm, 31st October 2018That’s what I meant to say. It’s very hard to understand the mindset if you’ve never had it.
You asked why anyone would care about getting blown off by one of many women. These scarcity mentality, oneitis and guy Disney laden men would care because they would take it personally and think there was something wrong with them. Obviously this is BS, but it’s pretty hard to see it that way if that’s the only perspective you have.
I agree, only help people who are willing to help themselves.
Vanilla Boy
Posted at 06:14 pm, 31st October 2018I prefer the metaphor of snowflakes. Whenever I hear someone talk about some woman who is unique and different from every other woman, I say yes, she’s unique and different. Just the way each snowflake is unique and different from the others. The thing is, there are millions and millions of unique, different snowflakes falling from the sky at any moment. Find another unique, different woman, there are plenty of them out there.
C Lo
Posted at 07:32 pm, 31st October 2018BD writes about being too picky as a man. And how men who are too picky are inclined to fall for oneitis.
(I raise my hand)
I have an outdoorsy hobby, never had kids, am super independent, and self sufficient. I wound up dating someone who was just like me in all the areas of my life that I care about, and she was close to my age. She had a fantastic figure, was insanely nice, and probably the best sex I ever had.
And on the negative side, she also was really homely (literally the ugliest woman I ever dated), weird in a bad way, had a suitcase full of meds and a psychiatric appointment twice a month, and serial cheater to boot. But I didn’t know all that shit till I dated her for a while.
Anyway, a couple of months back I met someone who was all of the good parts plus a couple of extra plus 15 years younger and no meds + not crazy. I didn’t get involved because she’s too far away, but keep this in mind:
Everyone is replaceable, even if you are too narrow in your preferences for women.
A man has to learn that the hard way.
TJ
Posted at 07:40 pm, 31st October 2018Good article Black dragon.
It’s been my experience that as long as the woman found you physically attractive, her reluctance or refusal to accept a second date won’t have anything to do with his looks. In most cases, she’s a boyfriend hunter or a a serial dater who happened to go out with a guy who maintained a strong player/DTF vibe throughout the night and she decided that he’s not “her type” and filtered herself out.
Btw, Jack Outside the Box dropped some major gems. His commentary mirrored my experiences in my AFC days to a tee.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 08:46 pm, 31st October 2018Correct. That’s the scenario 2, too much ASD scenario.
And yes, if she’s a hardcore provider hunter, there isn’t much you can do about the too-much ASD problem.
TJ
Posted at 08:47 pm, 31st October 2018@truthteller…
Don’t be so hard on yourself. I’m 6’5, above average looking and I’ve experience most of what you’ve experienced. I’ve had semi-catfishes, no shows, bait-and-switches..you name it. Getting laid seems to be a cyclical thing. Some months you’re on fire, some months you can’t get any even though you’re doing the same things that got you laid previously. Btw, I finally got a notch last week after unsuccessfully trying to seduce 5 women in a row over the last two months. I was pretty much de-facto monogamous with my FB the entire time.
Although it sucks in the moment, it finally made me realize that this is really a numbers game. As long as you look above average and put X amount of approaches, you are far more likely to score eventually than not and you can do so without guilt knowing that the other variables (her sexual availability independent of her level of attraction to you) are completely out of your control. No sense is stressing over the uncontrollable. The mere fact that women are agreeing to meet up with you alone for a few hours in the evening is enough evidence for me that my looks aren’t the problem if she suddenly loses interest the day after.
TJ
Posted at 09:27 pm, 31st October 2018@Joelsuf..so you’ve never had a woman express discomfort or downright reject any sexual advances you’ve made on her? If you have, then ASD definitely does exist for you lol.
Also “outcome independence” doesn’t mean that a guy is a 100 percent unaffected or non-reactive to a woman’s objection towards him, that’s called being a robot and is literally an impossible standard to achieve. Outcome independence is more of a spectrum than an absolute condition. It merely represents one’s ability to emotionally recover from a loss (perceived or actual).
joelsuf
Posted at 02:11 am, 1st November 2018A bunch of times, but I don’t get butthurt about it. Calling it ASD likely means you had some kind of emotional stake in the chick wanting to have sex. Since I don’t have that kind of emotional stake (or at the very least it is much lower than most dudes), a chick could straight up say “I don’t want to have sex with you” and I’d be like “Cool, its all good. Well I got some stuff to do so I gotta get out of here anyways. Don’t mean to cut this short or anything. I’ll hit you up in a couple days to see if you wanna chill again.”
Then when I see them again they jump on my dick. It’s like magic!
I agree with that, if you are 100% removed from the result then that makes you outcome ABSENT and have a nihilistic view on it. Which is only half the puzzle. But you can (and should) be at 90% or so removed from the result. So you gotta care just enough but not too much.
It’s more like an ability to have just enough emotional stake in a result to where you aren’t completely nihilistic about it, but not too much to where you start getting butthurt about the results (or lack thereof).
Like I said, if you have outcome independence you don’t really care about ASD, you just keep grinding until you find a chick who doesn’t have ASD. Or you back off from the chick who has ASD and then when you see them again hope they removed the ASD (most remove it by the 2nd date if you do things right).
And even the stuff I am mentioning is just strats for 33+s. Chicks under 33, if you screen them for downness right out of the gate, you’ll know real quick if they are wasting your time or not. My problem is I’m expecting every chick to act like a 33+. That’s my sticking point; I wait too long for sex with at least half the chicks I’m getting at, even the ones that ARE 33+s.
JohnMurdoch
Posted at 06:46 am, 1st November 2018I dont use BDs system so Ill just banter a little bit about my system:
I do nightgame, and only get phones of girls I kiss close (I’m good at it so I get more numbers than I can handle – working 9 to 5, doesnt have much free time for new chicks… I know I need to alpha 2.0). That gives me a very high success rate on dates. Girls either ghost me before the first date (saving me the trouble of a lame date) or put it out eventually (either first or second date in my place to netflix and chill. Some girls third date but unless very hot I wont even go that far).
I prefer that system than BDs for several reasons: 1. Online game kinda sucks in my country/city. 2. I can do nightgame hanging out with my friends instead of hanging out on quick dates with usually boring girls I only want to bang 3. Most importantly I do very few dates. Dates are a terrible loss of time. When I have a good roster my new girls are exclusively girls that agree to go to my house on first date.
Maybe when I’m older and dont have patience for nightclubs anymore I’ll evolve to something like BDs dating system
C Lo
Posted at 08:08 am, 1st November 2018I submit this isn’t a problem at all. It’s a GIFT.
Sometimes the trash takes itself out.
johnnybegood
Posted at 10:16 am, 1st November 2018I agree with a lot of this in my experience.
After the first date, if you get rejected/ ghosted, you’re toast. I thought that would be obvious. Usually, if there’s even a GLIMMER of hope that you have what the girl wants (which is either quick sex or relationship potential) – a girl will give it a shot. Like a bad movie that might turn around. If she rejects or ghosts you after Date 1, it means she thought there was no hope whatsoever.
I would simply BD’s rejection reasons. Either you are Not Hot enough for her (which, if your pictures are good, and you dress well to look like your pictures, should not be super common, but eh) or Your Personality Sucks (she’s relationship hunting, and doesn’t want another quick fuck). You can throw in “Fuckboy vibes” for category two as well. BUT – she still might see that as a glimmer of hope to tame you.
I would actually argue in online dating, the “your personality sucks” and she is relationship hunting is actual the more common rejection reason (once you are on the date). Your looks are usually already analyzed prior to the date, and once on a date you should pass that 90% of the time (or your pics are a problem) – to save everyone’s time. Yes, you want to maximize your profile pics but not to the point of absurdity. That’s a “fat chick” with angles to make her look skinny. You show up, bam, not going to happen (unless you’re desperate).
Mike Hunter
Posted at 03:50 pm, 1st November 2018Black Dragon: What would you recommend doing if you pitch a date and the woman says something like: “I’m not sure I’ll be able to make it tonight. I’ll let you know”? I see this behavior more in very attractive women that are probably in high demand, have multiple options, and are probably trying to keep me as a backup plan if their main date falls though.
I’ve tried pushing them hard for a yes or no answer. But that always results in a ‘no’. Should I fight fire with fire and stack my dates keeping them as a backup option as well? Or should I write them off completely because their attraction to me isn’t high enough?
C Lo
Posted at 08:10 pm, 1st November 2018I’m not BD but this is always a loser, in almost every situation.
I’m inclined to leave her an out and just respond back with:
k
Nothing winds a woman’s clock like a guy who gives her strong feelings. And k always gives women feelings.
Plus I’m moving on. Anything wishywashy like this is just a no with different packaging. If she wants to say yes and has a conflict she’ll propose a solution.
Not long ago, I kinda accidentally got involved with someone who canceled on her family and drove 250 miles to my house with an overnight bag and four bottles of wine on almost zero notice. We didn’t spend the weekend watching sports.
I’m not telling this story to brag (it sounds like it and it’s really not), but rather to explain that this is not uncommon behavior if a woman wants you.
”Maybe” = polite no
joelsuf
Posted at 08:12 pm, 1st November 2018People still use this term? Is this 2004? I thought this was BD’s blog, not David DeAngelo’s. lol
https://alphamale20.com/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/
Let me ask you something: If a 200+ lb chick did this to you, would you say yes?
Cuz that’s what you’re doing.
Which do you think? What would an outcome independent person do?
C Lo
Posted at 11:07 pm, 1st November 2018In fairness I don’t think that was a “one special girl” carve out. Rather, a for instance that happens with lots of women and men who aren’t aware that the message is the medium, not the words.
I think this happens a lot to men who are not situationally aware.
What is this kiss close nonsense?
John
Posted at 07:21 am, 2nd November 2018Yes you should have multiple dates lined up a week when you’re on a blitz, especially in the beginning. It isn’t about fighting fire with fire, it’s about getting laid. To do that you need to have OI and you can’t have OI if you’re worrying about one girl bailing on you. I wouldn’t call them “backups”. All dates are the same. You start putting one date as a primary and the other is a “backup” now your losing OI. This is about getting laid period. Not getting laid with a primary and then a slightly disappointing backup. Shit the “backup” may be hotter in person or be able to cum like a machine gun for the entire time you’re fucking her. Line up several opportunities to get laid or be able to replace a girl quickly (not necessarily that night) with someone else.
Women don’t get as invested to a picture as we do. I have had several women tell me that they thought I was “so hot” “so cute” on my profile pics bla bla bla. Same girl I had to aggressively pitch. I’ll ask why I had to work so hard (im working hard on many at the same time) and it’s always “It was just a picture”. ‘I couldn’t see your personality” i.e. confidence, lack of OI, and ability to push her buttons and turn her on like she isn’t used to being turned on. BD doesn’t recommend it but I’m kissing them on the first date (night dates sitting at a bar) within the first 30 mins. I’m touching their hands, their wrists, looking for tattoos I can touch and ask about, moving their hair around, and looking for tattoos on their neck to kiss. But I’m a complete gentleman and cute while I do. That’s how you build attraction. Not by some picture. Focus on the date. All you got to do is get them, someone, or anyone you’re attracted to on a fucking date. And then have to confidence and balls to close. As far as writing them off? No.. Women cancel for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with you. Give them another chance, while you’re going on other dates and talking to other girls of course, if you want. If you can be sweet about it. If you’re just going to be a butthurt little bitch about it then move on. Until you’re ready to re-pitch girls who said no.
Mike Hunter
Posted at 09:17 am, 2nd November 2018I meant multiple dates lined up for one night. I generally go for same night lays. So I’ll stack three dates on top of each other for the same night a couple of hours apart. Then try to get them to my house to bang. If I’m successful with at least one of them, and I usually am; I’ll flake on the rest of them. I find it helps with OI.
What I was asking is if I should double book for the same exact time. Since a statement like that from a woman seems to be such a wishy washy answer, and there is a low probability of her showing up. But what I’m hearing is that when a chick says that she usually means “no”. Or at the very least she wants to keep me as a backup plan. So it’s better to try and nuke her hamster by replying with a “k” as a DHV and OI; then repitch later. As an added bonus there’s a small chance that her other plans will fall though, and I’ll actually get the face to face meeting.
When did I ask anything about one specific woman? My question was about tactics.
I wouldn’t be talking to a 200+ lb chick in a romantic context on a dating site in the first place. I assume that if they’re talking to me and have given me their phone number; they at least have a minimum level of attraction to me.
John
Posted at 09:43 am, 2nd November 2018If you’re going for same night lays I would not setup multiple dates the same night. Make a date and make it count. I make one date because I know for a fact that she will either fuck me that night or the next. If she bails she bails. I still get laid that week on one of my other dates. Same night lays require time, effort, patience, and most likely turning the date into multiple dates (date within the date) on the same night. Which includes venue changes. From the restaurantbar to sitting in the car, from sitting in the the car to driving around and to finally a hotel or someone’s place. Some are much easier but I choose women who I have to work on, turn on, seduce, and make crazy with desire. But that’s me. Nothing is better than getting some sexless housewife (going thru a divorce) who hasn’t had an orgasm in 5-10 years to cum all over you on the first date. Save those other girls for another night thru out the week. If you’re not trying to do a same night lay then line them up like BD does. He’s the king of that but he doesn’t go for same night lays
So to answer your question I don’t even think or worry about them bailing. You can’t control that and they could all bail on you. Unlikely but I’m just saying. I just don’t worry about getting rejected or bailed on, period. Or what they were thinking or why they did it or how it makes me feel or if I’m going to lose OI. I just go fuck someone else, immediately. That fixes everything all the time.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:00 am, 2nd November 2018That’s woman-language for “no.” Try to reschedule for a different night, move on if she balks.
John
Posted at 10:21 am, 2nd November 2018@Mike Hunter… I re-read your previous question after reading BD’s response and I apologize (didn’t read it thru before I answered). No that isn’t a date. As BD said above that’s big fat no from her. I’m too impatient to worry about why she gave me maybe and go fuck someone else (yes make a date with someone else). I don’t burn bridges because the pool is small but I move on. If she wanted to go out with you she’ll initiate it later on. They usually do.
TJ
Posted at 08:18 am, 3rd November 2018Very true. Women who agree to meet up with a guy she met online will only do so if he meets or exceeds her SMV minimum. So unless the guy looks nothing likes his pictures, any rejection a man experiences on or after date night is not due to his physical attractiveness, but rather her lack of sexual availability (for reasons mostly outside of his control). Also a lot of guys grossly overestimate how good looking they have to be to get laid. While tall, lean and muscular are ideal, it’s totally not required to get with women. It’s actually more important that a guy isn’t visibly overweight or obese than to be ripped.
Fibonacci
Posted at 12:40 pm, 9th November 2018What about this situation?
Met a girl in the laundry room. She compliments me and is really eager and asking me tons of questions. Strong IOI’s. We exchange snapchats.
Snap some value stuff and random shit. She reacts positively.
I ask her to take a cigarette with me one morning, she says she cant but counters with an offer that evening. I am busy and decline the offer. Two weeks pass. I swipe tinder one day and she appears, I screenshot, send it to her and write: “Cute but leftswipe, that girl too much trouble”
Clearly joking in my opinion.
She reacts somewhat positive but also shows some indications of being annoyed.
I dont snap her for entire week. But she sees my snapstories that are very DHV.
See her at the club yesterday. I talk to her, im drunk. Im not gaming at this point im just hammered as fuck. Just talking shit.
I dont know if shit test, but shes like, “Nah, nah im gonna go, (THIS IS SO INTERESTING:) I was with my friends when you sent that text that you left swiped me on tinder, they said i should reject you, so im gonna do that” And she disappears. But I caught her looking at me later in the evening.
I text her “lol”
she opens this morning, no reply.
Right now Im feeling kinda annoyed at her and want to drop it. But shes hella hot though. Any way to recover? Im starting to cross that personal line of feeling like I dont wanna swallow my pride, and Im too needy if i text her again. So weird, maybe because she is only 20 and her friends actually do have that much influence on who she dates. I know its a strong factor at least. But what the hell. Or maybe i was just too shitfaced and needy and she lost attraction.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 08:24 am, 10th November 2018Girls blowing off after first date is indeed normal and its fine. But how to deal with girls who blow off after 3-6 dates?
LP
Posted at 01:16 am, 11th November 2018Hey Caleb,
Great article!
Apologies that this comment is unrelated to this article. But what is your opinion on getting laid because of having tattoos?
I know you don’t have tattoos and haven’t wrote anything about them before. But I have seem time and time again of young hot girls with guys that have tattoos whether they have just a few or are covered.
I actually gathered a little list of hot girls I know or have on instagram that have boyfriends and I listed if their boyfriends had tattoos and what I found what that HALF of the boyfriends of these hot girls had tattoos.
There were other things like MOST of the guys that were with these girls were in good shape.
The other things were these guys had good edgy style (good style, edgy (cool) look, swag etc)
Or maybe they were tall, good looking.
Among other things like same race/culture of the girl.
And maybe just a few had some status or wealth.
But what I found was that MOST of the hot girls bfs were in good shape or jacked and half had tattoos.
Bare in mind these are young girls (18-30) the older girls probably go for money/status more.
Whats your opinion on tattoos and getting laid?
John
Posted at 08:25 am, 14th November 2018Go work on fucking someone else and making them cum all over you. In the meantime when you see her smile, flirt-flirt-flirt (women love flirts that don’t come off as rapists), be cool, exhibit IO, and confidence in a non-douchy (important part) kind of way because you know a little secret. You’re a stud, you don’t need her for sex, but you’d make her cum every single time and most guys can’t. If you can’t learn how to with women you won’t give a second thought about afterwards. Then throw out feelers when you see her. She’ll make it obvious. then close that shit
giulio
Posted at 05:35 am, 28th November 2018Hello BD,
I red you keep a spreadsheet for your dates, I want to start to keep track of my dates too. what kind of spreadsheets do you have? what do you write on them, and what kind of notes do you take?
Jack Stirling Day Game
Posted at 07:12 pm, 4th February 2019I agree. If a girl doesn’t want to see you again after a first date, it’s over. She’s gone. I just recently had a girl refuse to see me again because I hugged her at the end of the date. Next!