When You’re Beyond Her
I’m going to present a problem that you’ve had with women in your past, or are currently having, in a way you’ve probably never thought of before. When you first read it, it may not make any sense. Trust me on this one and keep going, hopefully you’ll not only see my point, but also why I’m right.
If you try to have sex with, try to date, or get into a relationship a woman you consider very hot, perhaps an 8, 9, or 10 to you, and she rejects you, your default thought as a man is usually something like this:
“She was too hot, smart, desirable or high SMV for me.”
In other words, you weren’t good enough for her. Because women are the biological sexual choosers and men are the chasers, this is men’s standard assumption.
And yeah, sometimes this is the case. Sometimes you aren’t perceived by this hottie as confident enough, or good-looking enough, or wealthy enough, or whatever.
But is this always the case?
If there is something seriously wrong with you, then perhaps so. If you’re hyper-needy, have horrible game, have horrible social skills, are physically deformed, or weigh 400 pounds, then okay, I would that agree that you’re probably right in thinking that you weren’t “good enough” (in terms of their perception) for women who deny you.
However, if you’re a more or less normal looking guy and have at least an average level of confidence and social skills, is this still the case? Is every hot woman who is turning you down doing so because she perceives you as not good enough for her?
This might be true in a daygame scenario where you banter with a woman for two minutes, try to get her number, she says no, and you never see her again. It may also apply in an online dating scenario where she glances at your profile, decides to not respond to your opener, and moves on. Maybe.
What if she actually knows you a little, like she’s spent at least 30 minutes talking to you in real life? Or if she’s been on a date or two with you? Or in some cases, has actually had sex with you a few times and you’re trying to get more serious? If she denies you at any of these points, is it always because she doesn’t consider you worth the time because she is Ms. Hottie McHotterson and you’re too low on the sexual marketplace scale for her?
Sometimes, maybe. But more often than you realize, I think the answer is the exact opposite. I think she thinks that on some level, you are too good for her.
There have been a few times where I knew a woman, or was actively dating a woman, and we got along great, but she pulled away from me. I knew for a fact that it wasn’t because there was another man in her life, and I knew for a fact that it had nothing whatsoever to do with nonmonogamy. These were women who were clearly attracted to me on certain levels. They were plenty hot too.
This confused me at the time until I understood what was going on. One of these women told me, “You’re a lot to handle.” Another one kept saying, “I don’t understand why you’re still single!”
Recognizing these as typical, meaningless, woman-language statements, I pulled out my handy dandy woman-to-English translation device and decoded what they were saying so that I could understand in simple and direct language. The translation was:
“I can’t be with you, because you’re too far beyond me.”
If a woman of low or moderate self esteem perceives you as very confident, or very successful, or desired by other women (even if these things aren’t actually true), she will often pass you by because she feels that she can’t be with someone that much better than her. More importantly, this is true even if she’s extremely attractive.
Men forget that there are a lot of super hot, but low or midrange self esteem women out there. If one of these women don’t want to be with you, it’s not necessarily because she doesn’t think you’re good enough for her, it’s actually because she’s intimidated by your (perceived or real) awesomeness and/or value.
This reality, which happens more often than you think, gets lost with men today because of all the bitching and whining in the manosphere about how women these days only want ripped six-pack studs or wealthy millionaires. That doesn’t mean there aren’t tons of hot women walking around there with serious self esteem issues. There are. More than you think.
As a matter of fact, I think both the stagnant economy and the recent sugar baby phenomenon has started to exacerbate this. Instead of the 90s and 2000s woman who declared “I’m a Strong Independent Woman™ who Doesn’t Need A Man™”, the woman of the 2010s is slowly transforming into “I’ve fucked up my life, so now I need an older guy to help pay my bills so I don’t starve.”
Do you think that’s good for women’s self esteem or bad?
Forgetting Your Value
A common problem with men is that we tend to forget out own value in the sexual marketplace. Women are constantly getting hit on and drooled over, so they never forget. Women don’t do this to men, even to men of high value, unless they’re celebrities.
As men, we often forget how attractive to women we actually are. Right after my divorce, I was legitimately surprised that attractive women on dating sites were actually agreeing to go out on dates with me. Let me say that again, because I’m very serious; I was surprised. I was almost a little confused. Why would these attractive women want to go out with me?
The reason why I thought this was because I had been married and monogamous for nine long years. That means for nine years there was no dating and no women giving me compliments or demonstrating that I was attractive in any way. All I had was the standard non-sexual, post-three-year-mark, stressed out wife who complained about everything. Not good for reinforcing your own attractiveness as a man.
I’ve talked to a lot of divorced guys, or guys recently out of a long-term monogamous relationship, or guys recently off a long-term dry spell who experienced the same thing. Once they were back in the dating pool, these men were shocked that attractive women actually showed interest in them.
You need to remember that just because women aren’t throwing themselves at you doesn’t mean you’re not highly desirable by a large number of attractive women. It’s easy for us to forget, and it’s easy for us to assume that the women who don’t go for us are automatically doing so because we’re not desirable enough.
Often this isn’t the case.
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You are so right, there are very many hot, sexy, attractive and beautiful women just hanging from trees out here, I never dreamed it was possible back in my married days.
On top of it all, to me, the single ones are fair game and very much attainable . Oh there are some that are gaming towards the elite of the elite of guys, that is mostly in the financial department, I’m not wealthy for sure , no new luxury cars in my garage. But other than that, I know now, that I CAN reach any fruit on that tree, life is very good.
Brian, That Farmer
The blogpost is like a light bulb going on for me. Thank you, Blackdragon. I’ve personally experienced this a lot. I am not a cocky guy, but have very high self esteem and am blessed with top 1% looks/body for my age group. My game and physicality are also solid. I’ve had several low self esteem American women run away and didn’t understand why. Now I do. Actually its often easier for me to get super hot women than mildly attractive women.
When I travel to virtually anywhere outside the U.S., game becomes much, much easier. Women in the U.S. often have very low self esteem and long, incongruent checklists of what they want in a guy. Pretty crazy but they are often looking for a “submissive alpha” who is insecure about himself yet rich. You don’t see this to the same degree in most other places, even in Canada.
Very good article. Sometimes people in the manosphere do seem to be under the impression that you need to have a sixpack, be a millionare and read a hundred books on game before landing a hot girl. Nothing further from the truth. As a man, if you have these 3 basic things:
-A job which earns you at least a middle class income
-A relatively healthy weight
-Relatively normal social skills (no need to be the life of the party, just don’t be the weird or super shy guy)
Then you are perfectly capable of getting an attractive girl. Is just a matter of putting the numbers.
All very true BD. They know when they’re “beaten” so to speak and can’t handle the thought of being lesser and eventually rejected by the man. Men are far more used to rejection-women handle it very poorly.
Many girls have also told me because of my higher value, they were intimidated and pulled away. They also assume that I have options and they wouldn’t be able to handle being my one and only snowflake. They were very attracted to me but couldn’t handle the competition. A few also assumed I was a big player and one even suggested that girls may think guys like me are a higher STD risk because we fuck so many women. Crazy stuff huh?
Also, women always want to the the “hot one” in any relationship. The idea of the man being as or even more physically attractive is a problem for them. It’s an all eyes on me mentality that is getting worse every day.
Very true. Good, under-mentioned topic. This is also defined as a problem with attainability. Cant be too low, cant be too high.
I used to get this one a LOT. Comments along the lines of “Wow”, “Why are you still single?”, “You seem very confident around women”, and “I don’t understand why you’re interested in someone like me.” I’m a successful man on the far side of his 30s.
I’ve had to dial my game down to a very low level — just courteous and cool and saying nothing sexual at all (even as I physically escalate), so that they’re not intimidated. And I also actively look for things about them that I can say I like and respect (e.g. “You seem very committed to your job, I think that’s amazing, we don’t have enough such people in the world,”) so that bridges the gap a bit for them.
What do you do when faced with such women?
Hi Caleb,
I have a question for you:
Can you be an Alpha Male 2.0 if you are a kind and gentle person?
Regards,
Han
Actually, you don’t even need the first two. Confidence (even if faked) and social skills will do it.
I’ve talked to plenty of unemployed guys and chubby guys who get laid a lot, and with hot chicks.
You just proceed and do your best. I don’t recommend dialing down your vibe, confidence, or value because the vast majority of men reading these words already have these things set too low to begin with.
The only time to consider that is if you are SUPER good-looking or SUPER tall, but even then you need to be careful. (There are lots of super good-looking betas out there who have trouble getting laid.)
Why do you think an Alpha 2.0 isn’t kind or gentle? Your question makes no sense.
I guess it’s from the macho mentality of the alpha male (1.0) that we’re taught by society that you need to be to pick up chicks. The “asshole” who gets girls, or the “jerk”.
It’s useful to hear that you don’t have to be that — in fact, that you can be kind and gentle — but still be able to set boundaries in your life so that you can live the Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle. Often times, kindness and gentleness can be equated with “niceness” which means pushover or wimp. That’s not true. You can be a confident and strong man and still be kind and gentle. That’s very attractive.
Thanks for clearing it up. I knew the answer before I asked but it’s nice to hear it from you.
If this happens with a few girls, ok. If this happens with every girl, it’s not you being beyond them. I’m not saying blackdragon is saying that but I’m pretty sure some guys are reading that “See, it’s not me!”
@Han
An Alpha (Especially 2.0) never seeks out conflict (as getting angry equals unhappiness), and thus he is not an “asshole” – this includes his treatment of women (i.e. never tries to rule her life, never yells at her etc.). He also NEVER kisses a girls ass (unlike betas). Needy Alphas are considered “assholes” not because they treat their women like shit, but because they cheat and are usually dishonest. Alpha 2.0s are the exact opposite – They never cheat (as they never promise long-term monogamy) and they are always completely honest, because they have nothing to hide. If a woman can’t handle their lifestyle, they go fuck someone else. Remember, betas are not honest either, they are MANIPULATIVE (and usually not successful in being so).
By default, the only type of man who actually treat their women well are Alpha 2.0s. Remember the fine line between player/caretaker (I.e. she knows that you are not monogamous and will therefore not expect so, but also knows that you care for her, so she gets that part of her needs fullfilled).
@BD
Great article. I’ve definitely heard this statement before from attractive, low self-esteem girls. Usually you can get them to be with you anyway, just remind them of their values from time to time.
When you first meet a woman, if she feels confident, she acts cold and distant, to test you.
If she feels insecure, she acts cold and distant as well, but only so you won’t know she is intimidated.
These two situations, identical to the observer, feel completely different to the woman, and she can’t understand why men don’t see the obvious difference.
They feel so different.
Why can’t these idiots see how I feel?
In children, it would be called acting out.
In modern culture, it is called:
“Men have no social skills.”
I’m not so sure about this, I’ve been rejected by many attractive women in the past 18 months and I find it hard to believe that some of them rejected me because they thought I was too good for them.
I actually do get hit on fairly often but they almost always tend to be fat women and/or ugly. If unattractive women think they’re good enough for me then I just can’t believe that a hottie would think she wasn’t good enough for me.
Possibly the main reason I’ve experienced a lot of rejection recently is the fact that I only want VYW (18-23) and the age gap is just too much for most of them (I’m 39). I think I may have acquired a bit of a reputation in my social circles as a ‘creep’ for trying to date much younger. It won’t stop me though!
Now this is very true. I can’t think of one VYW who ever showed interest in me due to my profession, even though it’s very well-paid. My part-time job however (playing drums in a rock band) has gotten me laid like a champ, despite paying very little or nothing. Younger women want excitement not stability.
However every woman over the age of about 27 that I’ve ever talked online, one of the first questions was ‘what do you do for a living?’. Older women want a provider.
This popped into my mind upon reading the post: the concept of “auto-rejection”
http://www.girlschase.com/content/secrets-getting-girls-staying-out-auto-rejection
This post flipped a switch for me! I’m a 23 year old, hit the gym 5 times a week, good with money, decent job, got ambitions, do music etc.
Basically about a year ago I slept with an ex, and then a new girl the next day. I had slept with her before, too. It was like my best moment so far in game doing that.
However, the ex, when we had agreed to be FB‘s on the day basically did a u turn a week later when I invited her round – ‘do you only want me for sex’. I messed up the response for that but it makes complete sense why she didn’t pursue since she is now with a fat beta male. You only settle for what you think you deserve – as in she felt I was too good for her – she was telling me how good my body was etc etc. I basically ignored her after the shagging ended and she still chases me and stuff even when with the guy.
The other girl – was trying to be the boss of me, but I was just not having that. We eventually stopped talking after a few weeks. Seemed to be she wanted to find a relationship. So I’m not sure I can say the same for that. However, it does make me wonder if that was part of the reason as she could have tried to get me in a relationship.
The weird thing about these scenarios is that they severely negatively impacted me – I haven’t had a girl since, been practically an incel apart from make outs in clubs. And even then I stopped going out to chase girls. I just can’t waste time drunk in clubs anymore. Online dating has never gotten me anywhere apart from one date. I need to start putting the work again and realise that girls are attracted to me.
I’ve started to realize this myself recently.
I was out last night with some work colleagues. When one certain female went to the bar, the rest of them (6 of them) started telling me how much she talks about me and was telling them she ‘likes me’. So they were encouraging me to ‘get in there’ because she’s basically gagging. I hadn’t seen her for over a month and I’d consciously decided not to pursue her previously because she’s hard work. Anyway, since it’s been a while, I thought why not.
She smokes, so I said I’d come with her outside when she next went. My goal was to straight up ask her out. But she was resisting because she’s very insecure and doesn’t know how to react in these situations. She panics and doesn’t handle it well. She then stopped sitting near me all night. Bear in mind shes very, very good looking. She was also drinking alcohol and getting progressively more drunk so past a certain stage, it was a hopeless cause. I can tell how nervous she was about it because she got so drunk we were almost ALL booted out. And she never gets like that. Had the loud mouth not actually mentioned ‘we can all tell you are gagging for him’ infront of everyone to set off her barriers, I could guarantee I’d have had her home that night but oh well. She clearly wants me, but she wont allow herself to have me. Hell, before that moment, she’d managed to actually say she’d really missed me over the last month.
Early on, the others noticed her resistance (due to the loudmouth) and were trying to get her to listen to me and just have a chat with me (to my annoyance but I couldn’t stop them). And then 1 guy said, to the side, ‘I’m not gay but you’re certainly good looking so you could have anyone anyway’, and then 2 of her female friends said infront of me to her, that she must be crazy not to take this chance because I’m gorgeous, and another said I was ‘sizzling’. I was actually surprised by this, but mainly because its usually something said between girls when the man isn’t there, rather than saying it directly like most men do to women. Infact, I was told afterward most had left, that as soon as I walked over to them all when I arrived (I was last there), the group of women that had come out (3 of which I didn’t know well) were asking if I had a girlfriend.
Moral of this story is, you may think a woman isn’t taking notice of you, because she may not show any signs, but she really will be.
I don’t know when all this stuff about being able to pull an attractive woman comes from.
I am a doctor, I think I am reasonably attractive (used to pull a lot of p when I was 18-21 although not in London),I sail competitively.My count by the age of 30 was about 30. I dated ex stripper and generally reasonably attractive women.It all stopped once I graduated,moved to the UK and started working (I finished school late).
I live in London,It has been over a year without a woman now and around 2 years when I was with a woman I actually liked. Tinder,Happn is humiliating and never brought me any results, night game-I get mostly offensive looks, I never attempted day game since I moved to Britain. I have quite high standards since I moved from the continent where women are a level hotter then in the UK.,I also got corrupt mind of a man who dated a personal 9 once (that was a dancer).I also dated an attractive 21 years old being 32 (around 2 years ago),but again she was not local.I will never date a non white woman neither, so this is also a problem.
Social circles- I have had interest form some not very attractive nurses and even dated a couple of 6s (had to overcome a lot of internal resistance). Female doctors almost never date colleagues, they go after genuinely successful guys (finance, directors,sports)-that’s hypergamy for you. Some settle with long term college boyfriends, but these are a minority.I actually don’t know any female doctor above 6 (and younger thn 35)who dates or married a doctor.
Eventually I have given up completely and concentrated on my career and sports. Nothing works.
Ok I agree being a doctor in the UK is nothing cool (unlike USA), doctors here are at the bottom of the social ladder. I get more replies via Tinder when I put “manager” in my profile. I am also a foreigner.But still.
I am not alone.I know an orthopaedic surgeon who has got the same problems. I have met wives of established surgeons -never ever have I seen one above 6.
8/10 male junior doctors are single or date obese 5-6s,normally end up marrying a nurse by 30.
I’ve got a post coming up about this, but not all Alpha 2.0s are the same. Some are sensitive, emotional guys. Others are dominant (in the right contexts) basses. Some are in-between.
Alpha 2.0 represents a lifestyle and a series of decisions, not a personalty type. Many personality types are attracted to this lifestyle.
In my specific case, in terms of kind and gentle, I’m a very kind person. I don’t lose my cool, I’m helpful, I donate to charity regularly, I’ve never told a woman to “shut the fuck up” or anything like that in my entire life, etc.
I’m not very gentle though. I’m rough and blunt and don’t dick around.
So kind yes, gentle, no. But that’s just me. Many Alpha 2.0s are similar or different.
I’d also like to add that if you have really nasty mental health issues, that also works against you. I’ve had to deal with chronically low self esteem issues (thinking that I don’t deserve good things) and suicidal thoughts pretty much my whole life. That can translate to where you can have a six pack or make six figs and not even get big chicks because you hate yourself so much. THAT is what makes up most of the manosphere and similar to feminists, they blame the opposite sex for everything and think that there is an ongoing conspiracy against them. I used to BE part of that community, I was there before Elliot Rodger and was on PUAHate when he was on it. It scares me that the only difference between him and me was that I was able to figure out how to at least casually date and fuck big chicks just by getting out there. I’d argue that self esteem is the biggest deal breaker for either sex and chicks can tell if you have low self esteem. I’m still working on mine but its gonna be a long road.
Also some chicks just get butthurt that you snuffed out their intentions right out of the gate and just feel a sense of empowerment for leading you on then dropping you like a bad habit, thinking that they just got one over you. I just got back from a date with a single mom (who was sending me naughty pics before our date) and she is now getting on my case cuz I didn’t offer to pay the whole tab. (I knew it was over when she resisted the move I made after the date I was like “wow lady, you are NOT that special lol” to myself). So basically, she tried to lock me after the first date, I unintentionally and nonverbally called her out on her bullshit and thus, she’s not good enough for me. She had a deep fear in her eyes when I said that I liked freedom more than kids. I’m just pissy I wasn’t able to fuck her but meh. Plenty more out there and I already have a friend with benefits who I’ll be seeing pretty soon so whatevs.
Anyways nicely done as always. I’m growing onto you more and more, each post is winning me over more and more. Good to see there is a safe haven for guys like myself who don’t care about raising a family and just want to casually date and have casual sex forever lol
Am I reading this correctly? You went on a date with a single mom (which you knew beforehand) and proceded to tell her face-to-face that you like freedom more than you like kids and afterwards you also wanted to split the bill? If so it would explain a lot.
Wayne Elise (“Juggler”)’s old pua school Charisma Art’s used to have a technique where you worked into conversation what you liked about a women. Not only does it help with making a woman know that you’re interested in her as more than just a vagina with a pulse, but in cases like in your article where a woman was asking herself ‘why is a guy like THIS interested in mediocre me??’ it can silence those inner doubts of hers by giving her reasons… ‘I make him laugh and he is attracted to funny women’.
Well before all that, she almost planning out our relationship so I decided to troll her a bit. Don’t know about you, but I don’t like getting a lock attempt during the first date. I even made a move after and she did the whole “I don’t kiss on the first date” thing. In response I was like “but you’ll send me naughty pics? Before? Seems legit.” I knew she was only good for a hookup, but I had to play the game and tell her I was NOT looking for a hookup. But I didn’t know (well I kinda did but I decided “fuck it let’s see what happens, maybe she’s real horny and will let me hit it who knows) she was gonna try and lock me right out of the gate. What a joke.
If I encounter anyone who is trying to put me in a place or trying to use me, I have no problem calling them out on their bullshit no matter who it is. In this particular case a single mom was trying to seed a date by constantly talking about sex and sending naughty pics, and on said date, tried to make me her bf right out of the gate (as well as her ATM). I knew it wasn’t gonna go anywhere, but I was curious at my own expense. I just had to see if I was right lol. So I made my bed and was willing to lie in it.
There’s also this problem where the guy sets the bar too high for himself. Of course I have no problem with people doing that in general, but in seduction it can be detrimental to your overall success.
If you feel you’re not “good enough” in any aspect, half the battle is lost before it even started.
Not half the battle, I’ll argue the whole battle. Chicks don’t want to have to play the mommy role to some boy who’s self esteem is dependent on her approval (aka Omega Males). I kind of explore that with this musing from my first post, which kind of defined me until my dad died:
Great Article BD – and not something talked about much.
Here’s my stock answer to the question:
GIRL: If you’re so ___?____ why are you still single?
ME: By choice.
That may be the end of both the conversation or her interest. Prior to this article, I just waved if off as “they’re not into me” – based upon the article, there’s probably at least another answer “they don’t want to compete”.
It’s always interesting how our mindset and our beliefs color everything in our lives. I was the typical beta-husband, turned divorced dad … I was a completely asleep to the possibility of a woman (outside my wife) finding me attractive.
I’m going to throw a little piece of advice to any Man going through that right now … WAKE UP.
Why even answer that? I run from any chick who asks me that, I know exactly what they want lol
Hit this like a brick wall today. Had a first date yesterday that felt like it was going great, got the Ultimate IOI today in the morning… and got unfriended two hours later. While I’m usually calm and cool when getting rejected after a date (after all, dates are only a matter of finding out which girls are the ones interested in me), this unsettled me significantly. When I asked her why, she told me directly that she felt beneath me intellectually.
I wonder if I can salvage this… or even if I should, because I doubt this attitude is conducive to healthy relationships. I’ll try inviting her again in a couple of days.
I think this is a problem of top guys.
I’d love to think that this is my problem too but a guy with average game and maybe even good looks, physique and financial situation (that’s me) don’t have this problem for this specific reason. How do I know this? Hot girls flake and average ones from 5-7 try to get me to commit.
Some could argue that my game sucks but I doubt it because I have ONS’s 4 week ends in a row now with at least cute girls. Yes, this isn’t an incredible number or streak but it will give you some clue about my level of the game.