How To Adjust “On The Fly” on First and Second Dates
In most areas of life, you have direct feedback to tell you exactly how well or poorly you’re doing. In sports, the scoreboard or your coach will tell you, quite quickly, whether or not you’re doing the correct thing. In business, your most recent profit and loss statement can tell you if you’re on the right path.
Receiving this feedback makes it easy to quickly adjust “on the fly” so that you can get the results you want. Tony Robbins talks about how long flights are off course 98% of the time. It’s the job of the pilot and the plane’s computer systems to make the necessary adjustments, based on the feedback data, to get your plane to where it needs to go.
The problem is that often, on a first or second date before you’ve had sex with a woman, you don’t get this kind of feedback. As I’ve talked about before, Societal Programming trains most women to be very nice and polite on a first date. Even if she’s completely repulsed by you, she’s likely going to behave sweetly (though of course there are always exceptions).
On first and second dates, it’s usually men who display all their dirty laundry; women are much better at putting on a happy face and hiding their problems and psychoses until several weeks into the relationship, when they then spring on you once they’re “comfortable.”
In some ways, this is a good thing; it makes most first dates a calm and even pleasurable experience for most men (whereas women tend to dread them). The problem is that lack of feedback. You could have just said something that turned you from a “maybe” to a “no” in her mind, yet all you get is a kind smile. True, there are those women who will clearly react with disgust when you do something wrong (like some Dominants and some women over age 33), but these are in the minority.
How can you be successful in getting to sex quickly if you have no means of seeing how well or poorly you’re doing on that all-important first date (and sometimes second date too)?
Here are a few ways.
1. Watch her body language very carefully.
Women can pretend to be nice all they want, but many, if not most women, won’t be able to hide subtle cues in their body language which may indicate attraction or anger/disgust. Here are a few things that can indicate you just said or did something that pissed her off:
– Sudden dilation or widening of her eyes.
– Quick, momentary squint of her eyes.
– Instant break of eye contact, particularly if she looks down and to the side.
– An embarrassed smile, particularly if she looks away while smiling and/or if she exhales during the smile. A lot of women smile when they’re embarrassed, surprised, or suddenly pissed off; far more than you might expect.
– Any sudden shift in body language that moves away from you. For example, if she was slightly leaning forward and then straightens or leans back.
– Any sudden change in her breathing. This is a lot harder to notice, but it’s noticeable if you make a mental note of her breathing during the beginning of the interaction.
2. Pay attention to her speaking pattern, and watch for changes.
This is usually easier than watching for body language. A common example is if she’s talking to you like a normal person, then suddenly she starts answering questions in short, quick sentences, usually with a slightly lower tone of voice. If this happens, you likely just screwed up and need to recover (if possible, and it may not be).
3. Watch for any signs of boredom.
If she starts to look nervous, or looks around the room, or gives you long silences, or checks her phone too much, these are all signs that you’re losing her and need to step up the interaction by getting off stupid/boring topics and asking her more interesting questions.
4. Ask her after she dumps you.
This is a technique I talked about several years ago that I’ve used a few times. It sounds very beta, but it won’t harm your results at all and will often give you insight into what you’re doing wrong on dates that you would not learn any other way.
When you’re trying to schedule another date with a woman (after the first date) and she clearly sends you a text saying that she either doesn’t want to see you again or that “we should just be friends,” send her a text and ask her if there was something you did or said that turned you from a maybe to a no. Be honest and tell her you’re trying to be a better person. Then listen to what she says.
Yes, I know this sounds beta as fuck, and technically it is, but A) she isn’t going to fuck you anyway, so you lose nothing, and B) you’re never going to see her again, so who cares what she thinks?
Seriously, I did this several times and I got a lot of good info from it. A lot of women will keep up the “nice” pretense and give you some bullshit about how you’re “not her type” or whatever, but some women will actually give you a specific answer that will help greatly with future women. For example, one woman told me that I was fine until I made a joke about AIDS, a joke I thought was harmless. She had a gay friend who had it, so it pissed her off. So from that day forward, I made a mental note to never joke about any STD’s on date pre-sex.
Another woman told me she thought I was attractive, but she smelled female perfume on me, marking me as a guy who “was probably married.” Sure enough, I had just come from an MLTR’s house right before the first date, and I indeed probably had some of her perfume on me. So I added another step in my first/second date prep procedure to make damn sure no one could smell any perfume on me, and if I/they could, take a quick shower and change clothes before the date.
The point is I would never have gleaned this information any other way. It really did help.
5. Always be putting in the numbers so you don’t have to worry about this crap.
As always, you need to be going on MANY first dates and MANY second dates and be having sex with MULTIPLE women. The reasons for this are numerous, much of which I’ve already described at this blog and in my books. Yet another reason is that there are indeed some women who are really good actors, and will give you zero feedback when you screw up. You’ll do or say something on a first date that turns you to a “no,” and they’ll keep their body language and speech patterns just the same, polite and eager, until you text them the next day and they ignore your contact.
The only way to combat this is to PUT IN THE NUMBERS. Going on one or two first dates every once in a while isn’t going to cut it. Unless you’re already at an advanced level of dating skill, whenever you’re in sarging mode you must be scheduling LOTS of dates. That way, one or two screw-ups won’t harm you.
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Good post BD. The perfume thing is a silent killer..
If you’re going to reprint old advice, at least reprint it in full : )
http://web.archive.org/web/20150319104902/www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?11487-How-To-Determine-*Why*-She-Didn-t-Like-You
By the way, do you still have control over pua-zone.com? It appears to be infected by a virus.
The part about her fearing that you would be offended is funnily true. I had a girl cancel the first date, I asked why and she said I wasn’t tall enough (I’m of a decent height but she’s as tall as I am), and when I acknowledged that’s a perfectly valid requirement and wished her well, she thanked me profusely for relieving her concerns about me being offended.
Have you ever done this after a ghosting? Did they ever respond?
Great article and very honest! I can’t tell you how many times a girl gets bored and starts looking at her phone during a hangout. That’s when I try a pattern interrupt. I’m trying to discover what her triggers are. Money, popularity, adventure, pride, jealousy, etc. I’ll turn completely around and start a conversation with a stranger for a second. Then I’ll watch her face for jealousy. If that doesn’t work, then I brag about work accolades. Or tell a story about playing in a band, or travel. Usually something clicks in her body language and I can move in and expand on it. It’s basic “discovery” process of a sales consultation.
Here’s a trick I used last night with a girl that was bored as fuck: Talk about the law of attraction with her.
Even if you don’t believe that shit. I got into self hypnosis a few years ago. Tell the woman to think about her biggest dream, or the life she’s always wanted. See herself achieving it. What does it look like? How does it feel? Who is with you? What kind of guy is there… Alpha females eat that shit up.
A girl I recently dated told me afterwards, that she thinks it is a no-go to talk about sex on the first date. For her, this was the deal breaker.
On the date, I saw that she was first uncomfortable talking about it, but she started opening up after a little bit.
Since this is something that you recommend (talking about sex), I wonder what I should do with this feedback?
Several girls told me they were uncomfortable with physical touch. Some were uncomfortable talking about sex. Some didn’t like that I asked them out. And some, you won’t believe it, didn’t respond to my messages on dating sites. Should I cease doing all of the above? : )
If she didn’t like sex talk with you, it means she wasn’t that attracted to you, and sex talk itself wasn’t likely the cause (though that can happen if you’re doing it in a creepy way). Work on yourself, ask other girls out.
I own it but I don’t control it. They’re upgrading the forum software right now to fix that error.
No. They won’t respond. It’s only valid if there’s a verbalization that she doesn’t want to see you again. Which, I admit, usually doesn’t happen. Sadly, most women just ghost.
Yes, BUT, there’s two different flavors of when a girl looks at her phone during a date/meet.
The first one is what you’re talking about; when she’s bored and needs entertainment. This is bad and you likely screwed up.
The second one is when she’s having a perfectly good time but she’s a typical Millennial addicted to her phone and has to look at it every once in a while because of her addiction. That’s perfectly fine; it doesn’t bother me at all (these are the times we live in whether we like it or not) and I’ve had sex with lots women who did this. Perfectly cool with me. (They make great FB‘s.)
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2015/05/04/ignore-what-women-say-only-watch-what-they-do/
Stop talking about sex, keep the conversation as interesting and enjoyable as possible, and circle back to sex-ish topics (like dating and relationships) later if you can. And realize that no matter what you do, your odds of success with this prude just dropped about 30%.
For the record, I have literally NEVER had a woman say something like that on a first date who was under the age of 33. Never. (Though I don’t always get super explicit either.)
You should of told her “Thanks for the feedback, it really aids me to do better next time!”
Great article. It reminds me of an encounter I had several years ago, though the inquiry that emerges from that recollection is admittedly only tangentially related.
When I was 20, I had a great second date with a girl, also 20, that ended with fantastic sex at her place. Throughout the night and the next morning before I left (yes, I was young and naive and, at her invitation, slept at her place), she seemed over the moon about what had happened between us. She was still glowing (plastered grin, slightly flushed cheeks) the next morning. I phoned her a few days later to try to plan another date. From the moment she answered the phone, it was plain as day she’d gone completely cold on me. I only talked to her a couple more times after that and, while I ultimately didn’t lose much sleep over it, I’ve always wondered what the hell happened. I have my own theories, but am curious whether anyone else’s field experience points to something I haven’t considered. Thanks.
I’d be super leery of believing anything a woman tells you regarding the reason she wasn’t interested. Many women are going to make something up or blame it on something that it really wasn’t, in order to make you feel better. Not to mention, it can be very difficult to pinpoint the exact reason, for the woman herself. Many times its just a gut feeling or something turned you off and you didn’t even really know why.
I actually met a guy the other day, on a business trip and had him all the way back in my hotel room but decided I didn’t want to sleep with him. I really can’t explain my reasoning, other than that something just turned me off during the interaction. I ended up asking him to leave and he didn’t do anything wrong but I just lost any attraction. He wanted to know if it was because he was a bad kisser and I said no because it wasn’t entirely that, it wasn’t a technique. I just didn’t want to fuck him.
We were talking, we were drinking, he was massaging my legs while we were laying in bed and I was in a sundress. I was on the fence as to whether I wanted to have sex with him because he seemed like a decent guy and was reasonably attractive but when push came to shove I just decided I couldn’t do it.
Why not? Maybe it was because he said he liked to cuddle a lot and wanted a woman that would be cuddly. Not that I don’t like cuddling with someone I am having sex with, but the idea of cuddling someone, before we have had sex, is like, repulsive to me. I let that slide though and things were progressing.
There was something about his smell that bothered me. He didn’t smell BAD or anything, and the cologne he was wearing smelled nice when he hugged me. But when he kissed me the smell bothered me. His breath didn’t smell, it wasn’t that. It was like, pheromones or something lol. Something just turned me off and I didn’t want to fuck him. I’ve smelled other guys with a similar smell and I couldn’t fuck them either!
I’d had really great sex two nights before with the guy that is my absolute favorite in bed. I wonder if it was just too soon for me to be touching another man. Sometimes I get like that, where its really hard to want to have sex with someone else when I’m still on that high from a guy I really like. We’re not in any kind of relationship and are pretty much just fuck buddies so its not like it would matter but I think it still affects me on some level.
I can’t really say but I’ve been ignoring the poor guy’s texts because I really don’t know what to say or how to answer his questions or let him know I just am no longer interested.
This is why, as I said in the article, many women will not answer that question, and just give you a bullshit answer instead.
But the women who give a specific and pinpointed answer are indeed likely giving you accurate info.
Exactly. You don’t have an exact answer so you’re not going to answer the question.
Ben, I’ve had almost exactly the same sort of experience, so I’d be interested too to hear other people’s views. This girl and I hooked up twice for sex. The sex was great as far as I was concerned, and I have no reason to believe that she didn’t enjoy it as much as I did. Certainly her reactions and comments would lead me to believe that. And she wasn’t drunk or under the influence of any drugs. Then she just dropped me, as it were. I didn’t let it worry me unduly – I was twenty-one and there were plenty of other girls around – but I’ve always wondered if I did something wrong (I sort-of presume I must have, although there could also have been some change in her circumstances that I was not privy to). It all happened over the course of two or three weeks.
Ben and Roberto, maybe you’ve been one night stood by a cheater? BD has this to say: https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2015/06/04/dating-techniques-that-dont-work/ (item 1).
Here ya go. The perfect answer instead of being a horrible person who ghosts “Hey, I had fun, I just don’t think we had any chemistry” It’s not mean, but it’s right. Not liking their smell would be a mean answer but ‘no chemistry’ means the exact same thing. This is my go to answer after a date that goes fairly well and I have fun but I just don’t want to bang them.
Bruh. You need to check your T levels. Having any emotional stake in chicks who ghost out or even the concept of ghosting out is not healthy at all. Read this and this.
If you are truly getting your name out there, then you won’t care about ghosting. Not every chick on the planet has the time or energy to let boys who don’t attract them down easy. Chicks who ghost aren’t “horrible” people. Chicks who enslave their boyfriends and husbands, cheat on them constantly, then ditch them, take away the kids, and make THEM pay for it are “horrible” people. And even THOSE types are rare if you aren’t beta.
She was cheating on her better half. Similar things have happened to me, only they would say “yo I have a bf, I just wanted to have some fun for the night” and then they would never talk to me again. You’d be surprised at how many chicks actually do that, especially VYWs 25 and under.
BD, your 100% correct about that fact that women are much harder to read then men. Most are experts at hiding their true emotions or feelings when your just getting to know them. Women can also be the same way with other women, which can interfere with forming new friendships. I agree that it is probably due to the way women are SP to be polite and nice. Men are much easier to read. I hardly ever had a hard time determing if a man was interested in me. You can pick up the signs definitely by the second date. All the signs you mentioned are spot on and most can apply to both genders. Body language is definitely the best indicator, since over 95% of communication is non verbal. I think asking someone why they were not interested is a good idea. It is a good way to find out if you need to change something.
Lovergirl,
I’ve had a similar experience recently, where I’ve dropped a perfectly fine FB mostly because every time we’d meet her smell would bother me more and more. And like you said, it’s not like it was bad hygiene or something. The only way i can describe it is that she smelled…sickly. Which sounds weird even to me.
On that subject though, you might be interested in giving this a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_odour_and_sexual_attraction
TLDR:
So congrats on doing your potential offspring a solid and not polluting the gene pool, lol.
For most guys who have a date where a woman either flakes on meeting up a 2nd time and ghosts you, or does meet a 2nd time, but doesn’t have sex and flakes on a 3rd meet, she’ll say she found that you weren’t her type, which can vaguely mean : a) she either wasn’t physically attracted enough to you, b) you didn’t show you have your shit together enough for her, c) you didn’t turn her on enough verbally, or a combo of all 3. Or she’ll trot out the popular line : ‘I didn’t feel enough of a connection’, which can be frustrating if a girl who’s said that to you in a text or Email, might actually have a number of common geeky interests with you.
This can be rather frustrating to guys, as how to create an emotional connection is rather poorly taught in pickup, as some can guys fuck it up and create way too much of one.
This is where it’s much more interesting to talk about things that are deeper and more personal and you can even say something like: I usually don’t talk about things like this, but for some reason, I just feel comfortable sharing this with you and what usually happens next, is the girl would share vulnerability back. I find the best 3 ways to create an emotional connection are:
1) Sharing your vulnerability.
2) Build commonalities, via finding things you have in common, or that low-level emotional connection, because you at least share feelings about places, or food, or the school you went to, or people you know in common in smaller cities, or stuff like celebrities.
3) Sharing philosophies, which might be sharing your views on dating, relationships, marriage, get agreement and then talk about how you’re connected, because you both agree on these philosophies.
If you don’t believe in monogamy for example, you could be taking a risk saying it in a first meet, but it’s your choice.
This can include being willing to share something about yourself with a girl, that’s not necessarily positive, that isn’t necessarily alpha and doesn’t go into making her more attractive.
For advanced guys, they can say something like: one of the things about me is in my last relationship, I got dumped on my birthday, so I’m like a little untrusting of girls right now.
Vulnerability in a weird way, is a demonstration of value, because it shows you’re strong enough to take the kind of fake persona off and just start sharing and connecting the real person.
A guy can say something like : I usually don’t tell people this, but……….
Or : For some reason I feel really strangely comfortable with you.
Or : You know, I just feel a connection between us. Like I feel like there’s some sort of connection. Just saying that and getting a girl to agree, is using the idea of consistent commitment and consistency, so even if a girl doesn’t even feel like she has an emotional connection, if you say it a couple times and she agrees to it, every time she agrees, she’s going to feel more and more like, yeah we do have an emotional connection.
Like you can say something like :
A) It’s so weird, I’m so glad I met you, as I don’t usually meet people like you.
B) You know, what I just feel like we just clicked, you know, for whatever reason I just feel like you understand me, I understand you, we have like a lot in common and there’s like some sort of connection here that we should figure out.
Political correctness detected! Employing red pill countermeasures now:
Emotional connections happen as a result of sexual attraction and sexual activity. You always start out with raw lust and build from there (assuming you desire upgrading her above fuck buddy status eventually). But seduction always starts with sex and sexual attraction.
I just threw up in my mouth a little. The above bolded line is something that women say to men. It is not something that alpha males say to women, and especially not on the first date before any type of sex has ever happened! You’re essentially communicating weakness and nothing dries a woman’s vagina faster than the putrid stick of male weakness! Come on, dude – Stop getting your dating advice from feminists.
And……………….you’re on your way to the friend zone! Then maybe you’ll cry in each other’s arms.
Any type of emotional connection is to be created after sex. Before sex, you create sexual chemistry via psychological dominance (confidence + outcome independence, not fucking “vulnerability!”) Seriously, lay off the feminism.
HAHAHA! Yeah, and maybe cry too. Women love a man who’s secure enough to cry like a woman! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Everything you’re saying is a parody of every anti-masculine feminist talking point I’ve ever heard! And what will guys experience after taking your horrible blue pill advice? A kiss on the cheek! You need to stop!
So far, this is the only smart thing you’ve said. I agree here.
Dude, you don’t want to talk about any deep philosophical subjects on the first fucking date! The pre-sex dates are supposed to be about lighthearted fun and an escape from serious philosophies! Serious philosophical talk is something we can have between orgasms after we’ve fucked at least 10 times!
“Yeah, I feel so, like, connected with you. It’s……like……we share this bond, you know? It’s…..like…..Mother Earth is speaking to me, like, right now and she’s, like, singing a song in my ear. I’ve never felt this way before!”
I have shocking news for you. Not every woman believes in monogamy. And some women just want to use you for casual sex.
Typical feminist/nice guy advice. And a sure ticket to landing in the friend zone.
To every new guy reading: This is the advice that every nice guy has been following since the beginning of time and getting nothing but a kiss on the cheek for it. DO NOT FOLLOW THIS MAN’S ADVICE!
Oh. My. God. “Yeah, I’m, like, scared of women right now. I’m terrified a woman will hurt me.”
Why fake? Why must psychological and emotional strength always be fake? Is it so impossible for your feminist “men show strength by crying” brain to contemplate the possibility that psychological and emotional strength and masculinity may actually be real?
To all naïve newbies: Despite what this feminist is telling you, women are NOT turned on by you crying or “showing vulnerability” before they’ve ever had sex with you. In fact, if you want to make a woman’s vagina dryer than the Sahara, act like the hypothetical feminine pussy that this guy Greg is telling you to act like! Otherwise, reject this blue pill “be a nice guy” advice anywhere you see it!
Please just kill me now! Stop torturing me with this nice guy flower power horseshit!
Every woman with even an ounce of social intelligence, upon hearing the above, will think that you are a weasel, a used car salesman, or just a sad virgin desperate for a one night stand if you utter such nice guy garbage!
No, she will say, “How much of a cheesy idiot does this guy think I am?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! “Yeah, because I’ve been a lonely loser my whole life, and no one has ever understood me before, no one has ever been kind to me before……until you – my special princess who actually gets me!”
Pathetic! Sad! Pathetic! Disney! Omega male material!
“Yeah…..I mean, I can’t describe it, or even understand it, but…..there’s magic here. I really think that, and I know this sounds cheesy, but this might be destiny. I REALLY think you were meant by the universe to buy this car…..er…I mean, ride my cock….er, no wait, I mean look into my eyes and have your heart skip a beat. It’s magic baby!”
Seriously dude, take the red pill. Drop the feminist advice to nice guys!
Jesus Christ!
No it’s not.
No it doesn’t. It’s female language (i.e. bullshit).
The pickup phase is not where one creates an emotional connection (or “vulnerability”; Jesus are you crazy?). An emotional connection is done during the relationship management phase. I do it all the time (with MLTR‘s, not FB‘s) and it works very well.
Trying to build an emotional connection with a woman you’ve never had sex with will likely result in a ghost or friend zone. You’re doing it out of order.
Sex first. Emotional connection second. It doesn’t work the other way around (despite what women over 33 try to get you to believe).
I’ve done this with a few chicks and it has led to sex. Look, If a chick is gonna ask me about a moment in my life where I had to overcome adversity, best believe I will tell her about something where I have overcome adversity. If you have enough outcome independence you can literally get away with anything, even beta disney shit. No its generally not effective but does that make it completely ineffective? If a chick asks me if I have a soft side and in response I tell her something that shows that I have a soft side, where’s the problem?
However chicks have to request that of me. I’m not just gonna tell them that I overcame adversity. I’m not gonna just blurt out that I have a soft side. So if that is what JOTB is attacking, that you should try to impress chicks by telling cute stories, then I’m in full agreement. When I was on the Lovesystems boards in 2010 I nearly got banned by saying that DHV = DLV, there’s no difference if you are being a try-hard (which nearly all PUAs since then have become).
The only thing I know that is completely ineffective is sharing your opinions on shit around a chick. Even if they ask you to give your opinion. Opinions before you have had sex a few times = Insta fail with a chick.
Never forget what BD says: Do you want to be right or get laid? I choose laid every time.
This alllll goes back to guess what, putting in the numbers! Cuz if you put in enough numbers, you’ll find chicks who you can make EVERY mistake around and you’ll get laid anyways. Now they won’t be loyal (because if it has a vagina, it isn’t loyal, especially in the 21st century, which, AGAIN, is MORE reason to put in the numbers even after dating), but they’ll still hit it.
I think BD needs to just post the “there’s this one girl…” article every time he posts something dating and sex related just to get it through everyone’s head that outcome independence is absolutely necessary before using any of BD’s materials of dating and sex.
That’s because it does, if done correctly. Nothing makes women drop down their, uhm, guards in front a man they find physically attractive like evidence of him being sensitive on the inside. Leader/bad guy charm + “you make me feel so comfortable” is a highly effective strategy.
With 30+ year old women, its all about making it really fun and getting her out of her head. I have had more success with 30+ women than Blackdragon would suggest and every time it was because I showed her a really good time and didn’t follow any particular dating rules. For example, I extended the date beyond an hour and a half, both of us got buzzed, we made out late in the date and basically had an awesome time.
It’s kind of counter intuitive but my best success with much younger women has been when I chilled out and had a more intellectual, serious vibe on the first date. When I get a 2nd date from an under 30 women, a hook up almost always follows.
I don’t doubt that showing your vulnerabilities works for some guys. Personally though I don’t like to revel my heart to strangers. I used to when I was 22 but not anymore.
How often does that translate to a 2nd date hookup ? Having a great time on the 1st date does not count as a Plus for a Pleasure-of-sex guy (as opposed to a Thrill-of-the-hunt guy) if it has no positive bearing on the speed and frequency of sex. Older women – and women in general – will of course greatly appreciate if you “make it fun and get them out of their head”, but appreciation doesn’t equal getting laid. And if it increases it by Zero or worse decreases it, then it shouldn’t be the guy’s focus.
I have never said women over 33 were harder to fuck. I said they take longer to fuck, as you just confirmed by saying you have to extend the length of your dates with these women and increase your cost (by getting you both buzzed). Yep.
As I’ve said before, if you’re happy waiting a much longer time and spending more money to get to sex first-time sex with women, you can fuck hordes of over 33 women if you want. Not me. I have a very full life and I choose to spend my time more productively doing other things. Taking the extra time and money to fuck over-33 women isn’t impossible or even difficult; it’s just poor time management.
I have 1st or second date sex with over 33 year old women well over 50% of the time and spend less than 4 hours. I only extend the first meet if sex seems likely that night. I will admit though that I usually only go for over 33 year old women who I meet during day or night game so most of my results are actually coming from this. Also I am probably in the top 99.5% of guys my age for looks and game but only in the top 40% for money (in my very wealthy city).
I don’t bother with over 33 women online unless I have run out other online options in my small city or I am traveling to a place with super sexy older women (e.g. France and Spain). So I don’t disagree when we are talking about online. But still for an over 35 year old good looking guy who likes night game, older women are not that hard. I know you have said nightgame could be easier with over 33s in previous posts Blackdragon, so I am confirming this.
Yeah, but my lays go over 4 hours 0% of the time. Again, my point.
I’ve had a hard time with this one with VYW sometimes, mostly because the difference between legit boredom and phone obsessed fidgeting is not always obvious. One thing that definitely happens to me though, especially when they’re very anxious at the start, is they’ll bury their nose in their phone basically as a nervous tick. Now, I try not to take it personally and just keep asking leading question and eventually as they warm up, they let go of the phone.
But it sure feels weird trying to have a conversation with someone that way. About the only quick surefire way to remove the electric pacifier is to start making out. Not really an option until date 2 though….
BD, Can you confirm(from your experience) that whatever the conditions, IF the date is longer than 4 hours, then it’s equal with you are NOT getting laid, regardless number of date, woman’s age, or dating’s vibe?
Slut shaming detected! Initiating red pill countermeasures now:
Just what do you mean by “loyal?” Are you still carrying a beta torch for monogamy? Are you suggesting my girlfriend isn’t “loyal” because she sleeps with other men (and one woman)?
Unless you meant something other than monogamy by “loyal” I suggest you still have some societal programming to undo, because this is slut shaming. Drop the code words, dude. Subtlety does not get by me.
Many non-monogamous women are way more loyal to their men than monogamous ones. Monogamy is the illusion of loyalty. True loyalty has nothing to do with who you go to bed with.
More slut shaming from Joelsuf:
The bolded part is the only part I disagree with. Having an open relationship without telling the man about it is sometimes the only thing that allows a woman to maintain her sanity. Constant cheating is a sign of good mental health because monogamy doesn’t work. A mutually understood poly arrangement would be preferable, but some men are too blue pill for that, so the next best option is to indulge in the secret society by protecting the person you love from that knowledge, who is obviously not ready for it.
It’s called being compassionate. I doubt she’d cheat on him constantly and go through all the headache of lying, hiding, and living a double life if she didn’t sincerely love him. No one goes through all that trouble unless they’re truly in love with their primary partner.
If she weren’t in love, she’d just dump him or fuck other men without his permission in front of his nose and dare him to stop her. And she’d do all the other evil things you mentioned – enslave him financially, take the kids, and make him pay for it. Evil women like that don’t bother being sexually discrete because they don’t love their men. But a woman who is head over heels in love with you, but recognizes that you’re too blue pill for poly, is the most likely to “cheat on you constantly” as discreetly as she can out of compassion and love for you (just like many male cheaters do with their women).
Take the red pill man! Instead of trashing these women, you should take the time to appreciate all the fucking trouble and gymnastics they go through just to keep you happy in your SP bubble, while still maintaining their own sanity.
Constant cheating isn’t rare. There’s nothing rare about it. A woman isn’t going to sexually enslave herself to you just because you’re an alpha. That’s a macho myth. Poly is in her blood because monogamy doesn’t work. Just because she has to cheat due to your inability to handle it doesn’t make her horrible or in love with you any less. It just makes you territorial, insecure, and programmed!
Drop the monogamy programming! There’s no such thing. Everyone is poly. The only question is, are they poly openly or discreetly. That depends on you. And if I were a woman, I’d cheat on your ass every chance I get Joelsuf, because you are obviously not open minded enough to handle it.
Explain why you think her boyfriend is her “better” half. If she’s cheating on him, that makes him her worse half. Her better half would have allowed her to be poly.
No I wouldn’t be surprised. That’s called daily reality. The fact that you’re using words like “actually” and “surprised” tells me that you still have a lot to learn about sexual open mindedness and sex-positivism, as you seem to be very bitter about the workings of the secret society.
Seriously, take the red pill and drop the slut shaming!
JOTB, stop it with your altruistic enlightened cheating woman that only exists in a tiny percentage of cases. Men and women who cheat are people who made a promise and broke it, period. The idea that all, or most, or even half of women who cheat are “red pill” is beyond ludicrous. One does not get special treatment for the promises they break just because they “didn’t know at first that it’s a biologically impossible promise to make”, or because the specific area of sexuality entitles them to get a pass.
Unless one is in an oppressive – in the real sense – environment that severely punishes divorce and such, the moral thing to do when you realize you’re not capable of monogamy is to disclose it, not continue to lie and use elaborate methods of deception. As for the negative consequences of doing that, like having to divorce, putting the kids in trouble, etc, they’re still on you, and do not give you a pretext to continue the deception.
For someone who believes in personal choice, you’re playing a very feminine game, defending women who are “trapped in a marriage and forced to protect their husbands from the truth of sexuality by feigning monogamy while cheating on them”, as you usually put it, more or less. If you were consistent with your principles, you wouldn’t excuse them in the slightest because THEY consensually created the monogamous situation, so it’s up to them to resolve it as truthfully as they started it, because no they are not “trapped”.
Of course I suppose you need the rationalization yourself in order to avoid feeling contempt toward the married women you might sleep with. Bashing cheating women and men is not slut shaming, it is merely the shaming of consistent deception and breaking of promises – I don’t give a flying fuck that they’re unrealistic promises and that monogamy doesn’t work, consenting adults need to own their stupid and unrealistic choices or get out – , and has nothing to do with shaming promiscuity, which is indeed blue pill.
I don’t understand the question. I think you’re asking, do I wait longer than 4 hours in order to get laid, or do I dump the chick right at four hours?
These days, yeah, if a woman is clearly unwilling to get sexual with my by the end of the 2nd date, either because she isn’t attracted to me or because she’s attracted to me but her god damn SP and/or ASD is holding her back, then yes, I usually move on.
These days, this almost never happens, since A) I don’t approach women over 33 (beyond rare exceptions) and B) the vast majority of women who aren’t attracted to me bail out on me after the first date, meaning a second date never occurs, which is great, since these women don’t waste my time. Nothing irritates me more than women who want to continue to see me when they “aren’t sure” if they want my cock or not (in other words, women over 33, since women in their 20’s almost never behave this way; you’re either in or you’re out with those).
I’ve said before that if a woman refuses sex on the second date but gets clearly sexual with me (i.e. clothing comes off and things happen but not actual intercourse), then I might agree to a third date. Again though, these says, that scenario is very rare (to the point where I literally don’t remember the last time it happened).
Back when I got tired of sex, I basically offered a “one-sided” open marriage to my wife. I told her she could go get whatever she wanted elsewhere. I’m not a jealous or envious type. But the thought repulsed her and she was very upset with the mere idea. It has been a touchy subject ever since.
I’m not contending that “monogamy doesn’t work”, which is quite obvious to me, but I am contending the “AWALT” theory that every woman will go have sex with someone else at some point. I honestly think she’d rather have no sex at all, than sex with someone else.
I believe it often works like this: she is attracted to you, and not attracted to someone else, and the thought of having sex with someone else is repulsive to her regardless of arrangements with you. But then she sees that hot athlete doing laps in the hotel pool…
Many women are emotional creatures that can only have sex if they feel an emotional connection. Others value sex on its own. At least that’s my current understanding.
Game, game and again game. That is what should be played all the time with women. Due to this reason is why the older men had an enormous advantage over the younger ones. Game is based mainly on life-experience and CULTURE that should be permanently trained by reading reflexively all kind of scientific and humanistic literature: philosophy is the king among such disciplines. Secondary, one has to take care of his physical appearance: so keep your hair as long as possible and some muscle mass framework. And that is all, I have followed those simple rules in the past three years and as a result I have got dozens of women even in the hardest european countries. Thats all folks.
@Vincent:
Why the fuck would you get tired of sex? That’s not normal.
No, she wasn’t. She was “upset” by the fact that she no longer had any power over you and she no longer turned you on. You giving her permission to sleep with other men – especially because she no longer turns you on – made her feel very insecure and unloved, both because you no longer thought she’s attractive and you’ve taken away her power to make you jealous or manipulate you with the specter of losing her.
Those are the two things she was repulsed by. She could have been cheating on you with multiple men for all you know, but the fact that you verbalized it and told her that you don’t care about her or what she does anymore made you sound like an uncaring monster who cares nothing about the marriage.
That’s what she objected to, not her sleeping with other men (which she may very well have been doing). Most women just like to think that you care, especially if you started out mono. That’s all.
Right, because you’re not turned on by her anymore. That’s what hurts her the most. In fact, in her mind, you care about her so little that you wouldn’t care if you found out that she’s been cheating on you with two other men all this time. It’s the way you framed it that repulsed her, plus her no longer turning you on. That’s a problem. But her cheating on you (which she may be doing) is NOT contradictory to her repulsed attitude at your suggestion!
She will cheat on you at some point, or is already. She’d just prefer you to be against it, because it shows you care. She wants it to be dirty and she wants psychological control over you. Don’t you get it?
That’s the impression that all monogamous women give. In fact, that’s the impression that my married fuck buddy gives her husband. I actually spoke to him recently and he told me something very similar to what you just said above about his wife’s sexual attitude. It was hard not to laugh, but I pulled it off!
You need to open your eyes man. If he would have suggested an open marriage and stopped wanting to fuck her, she’d be repulsed by him as well because it would mean the marriage is over! That doesn’t stop her from cheating.
And now to deal with the sexually inexperienced:
No. Stop being a busy body, as BD said, and start getting laid.
There is nothing altruistic here. She is cheating to maintain her sanity.
You’d be surprised. How many cheating women have you slept with?
When you gain more sexual experience and stop being so intellectual, you’ll start to understand. Until then, kindly eat shit and die!
The red pill isn’t just an intellectual concept. It’s an intuitive concept. Intuition is something which you are extremely underdeveloped in, which may explain why you don’t get laid. A woman being in touch with her true nature, in contradiction to her pro-monogamy societal programming, on a very primal, instinctive, and sexual level IS very red pill.
Any woman who breaks her socially accepted programming deserves my respect. Some super blue pill women cheat on their boyfriends only once and feel great guilt about it. They feel so guilty that they even tell their boyfriends like the romantic fools that they are. Others cheat without telling their boyfriends occasionally, but still with guilt. Still others cheat occasionally without guilt because the secret society dictates that it “doesn’t count,” which it doesn’t. And finally, there are women who cheat regularly without the slightest guilt. Those are the women who qualify for true red pill status and may even cross the threshold into honest open relationships.
These latter women are the best and most courageous women in the world because their pursuit of truth (in the intuitive sense) makes them more connected to the red pill than you will ever be with your armchair intellectual pretensions about “broken promises” and all this socially constructed crap!
The primal, instinctive, intuitive, and REAL woman inside her – that comes out every time she cheats – is the red pill woman who serves the larger truth of how things really work in nature, even if she has to lie to the sheeple who are still stuck in the trap of applying intellectual social constructions, like promises, into primal sexual territory.
But everything I’m saying will fly over your head because you just can’t get your head out of your intellectual and independently rational ass! Again, this is why you don’t get laid.
HAHA! Listen to you! Seriously, listen. Listen to how you sound.
Yes, they do.
It does. Promises are for the economic sphere. They are for contracts, mergers and acquisitions, professional partnerships, and even for platonic friendships in your personal life. In contrast, sexuality is primal, it’s animalistic, it’s about passion, and tapping into the reptilian sub-rational brain. It’s about pure nature and the unadulterated animal. It’s about unleashing the beast! Intensity! Heat! Desire!
Don’t talk to me about “promises” and your lofty college virgin-type ideals when we’re dealing with forces that defy, and laugh at, all your sad and pathetic excessive intellectualism; forces that you have literally no comprehension of; forces that imply larger truths then your left brain can’t even grasp with your garbage moralizing!
The only cure for your extreme naivete is more and more sexual experience.
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Disclose. Yeah, just disclose it. Like it’s nothing. Very logical. Very professorial. And very asexual.
What a sad, simple world you live in. A world of abstractness, theory, hyper-intellect, and zero passion. Where’s the fire? Where’s the desire? Where are all the things that women find attractive? These things do not exist in you, which is why you don’t get laid.
First and foremost, I’m a defender of truth (in the larger sense). I’m offended by monogamy for the same reason I’m offended by prostitution: It’s fake and it turns women into actresses who spin an illusion of reality. Anything that gets them out of their fake life and causes them to be their true selves – even discreetly for an hour – is worthy of applause.
Very logical, rational, autistic, and anti-passionate argument.
Your fake self consensually creating something due to societal brainwashing and then your true self emerging (possibly for the first time in your life) and breaking the bonds of the fake world and beginning to live in accordance with the principles of the real world (even as a double life, because you’re still too scared to let go of your fictions fully) merits great approval, encouragement, and compliments, not condemnation or shame due to some autistic belief in “promises” made in the fake world that should, for some reason, be carried over into the real world.
You have no concept of the secret society, no sense of distinction between the real and the fake; the primal and the rational. The concept of the “primal” is just another intellectual and rational concept to you, isn’t it? How sad. How pathetically sad your lack of understanding is about the real world!
They may not be trapped. But maybe they’re in love with their husbands and don’t want to lose them, while understanding that those husbands would never agree to an open marriage? Have you thought of that in all your mental masturbation and theorizing? That they might be trapped by their own serious emotions, while still needing to be true to themselves, which you dismiss with contempt?
Get out of your head! The only one who’s “rationalizing” is you.
I actually talk to them. Listen to them. Get a feel for their situation. You might want to try it sometime! How many married women have you had sex with? Zero!
I also think back to how I used to be back when I was monogamous and cheating. I was very in love with my mono girlfriends. And I knew that they would leave me if I suggested something open. There’s no room in my heart for contempt for these women. Only compassion and praise for being more awake, and having higher self esteem, than those stupid women who deny themselves in order to live in monogamous misery because they “made a promise.”
And you shaming consistent deception and the breaking of promises is why I have a problem. You’re trying to artificially graft rules from the intellectual and platonic world unto the world of primal sexuality and passion. You will fail. And when you develop sexual experience, you’ll see how stupid and autistic your arguments here have been!
Then you are fundamentally wrong on a deep psychological and genetic level.
Spoken like a true perfectionist. People are complicated. And the entire essence of seduction is to precisely get the woman out of the mindset that you’re in now and speak to her deeper primal self, because that’s where human sexuality is located. You trying to stitch the two worlds together in a hyper intellectual sense makes you no better than a materialist or a medieval Manachean philosopher who sees the psychological and physical as one and the same (which incidentally is what allows SJWs to claim that speech is violence).
There’s a whole nother world out there, dude. It’s called the secret society. It’s a world where we laugh at you and your intellectual pretentions. Google “Saturnalia” for more info!
Until then, please shut the fuck up!
Don’t tell anyone to shut the fuck up again on this blog. Thanks.
Understood.
I was talking about how *you* in the past have said that a cheating woman is doing her husband a “favor” by shielding him from “red pill realities” that would shock his blue pill self. I wasn’t talking about you being altruistic, but the woman.
One. I also broke up with her partly out of sheer disgust of how she was (all the time) more concerned about her shame of being “attracted to a younger guy” than the fact that she was cheating. But that was years ago and I don’t know if I’d act differently today. Bottom line, I’m not super stoked about fucking people whose daily routine consists in lies and deceit by the minute.
The rest is just you rationalizing, like I was saying above. There is no fundamental difference between you and f-eminazis: they build their antihuman principles on ideas of the type “those very reasonable moral premises don’t work in this specific area. Why ? cause it’s convenient and lets us do what we like with a clean conscience.”
I don’t know how much longer BD is gonna ignore your regular use of personal attacks, or how long you’ll be able to do the lawyer acrobatics to “prove” that they’re not personal attacks, but well played in advance.
Edit: I saw BD’s comment *after* posting mine, so I’m not being purposely redundant.
and
I’m actually very likely to have a better understanding of those things than you do, because I haven’t just witnessed them and related to them: I know how they even began to exist, evolutionarily. Still doesn’t matter: dishonest and irrational behavior in “the economic sphere”, which you’re trying to separate from the sexual sphere, also has similar animalistic origins. Doesn’t deserve respect in one case or the other.
If hating on chicks who cheat and post it all over social media like a badge of honor (which is who I was attacking) is slut shaming then I guess everyone slut shames. If attacking chicks who are proud that they have unprotected sex and who hypocritically diss men who have lots of sex then I guess everyone slut shames. Or at least they should. Sex is awesome and everyone should have more sex and I can’t wait for the day when sex isn’t a taboo subject. But like anything else, it shouldn’t be some escape. And no one should be “proud” that they can “steal your man/girl.” If that makes me a slut shamer, then guilty as charged. *shrugs*
I’m trying to single out certain populations and trying to draw the line between being happily promiscuous and using sex as a way to manipulate people.
I’ll say it again: If attacking those who use sex as a weapon is slut shaming, then guilty as charged.
The “red pill” means different things to different people. I’ve been in at least four different “red pill” communities on the internet, each one with its own “rules.”
“red pill” according to BD et al = Resist SP but don’t waste time attacking it. Just be aware of it and do your own thing.
“red pill” according to MGTOW = All chicks are feminists so only talk to them platonically, and get your sex from sex workers or by jerking off to porn. These are the ones who say “chicks deserve no agency” yet they give chicks nothing BUT agency lol.
“red pill” according to alt-right/stormfronters/white nationalists etc = The conspiracies we believe are the truth, Women and nonwhites don’t deserve rights, slavery should still exist, white people are the most oppressed population of all time. Yes this is an actual argument of theirs. Which I think is funny and scary at the same time.
“red pill” according to PUAs (mostly RSD at this point) = You need to spend your younger years playing the field with chicks but you also need to settle down at some point. Meeting chicks from social circle and online don’t count, only chicks who you meet from cold approaching count.
I agree with some and disagree with some of these “red pill” arguments. Your “red pill” musings are gonna be different than others. I don’t like pills, or the matrix movies that they are a reference to, so I’ll just stick to living my own life the way I see fit, thank you very much.
And seriously JOTB, how did ONE line of dialogue from me trigger you so hard to where you had to respond with thousands of lines? Damn man, quit trying to save the world by telling others that yours is better.
And I almost forgot: the idea that I’m being a busy body – for calling out a fake characterization of cheating women – is pretty funny, coming from someone who spends his online time reacting to everything he doesn’t like with “political correctness detected! deploying red pill countermeasures” posts laying out his entire ideology so many times that I could probably quote him verbatim at length. If you google Memetics, you’ll see that you’re essentially behaving like a meme-propagating zombie (so much for being a person with agency); I wonder how many more websites are getting the “___detected! Deploying…etc” on a regular basis from you. I hope they’re the type that takes time to get bored with busy bodies. Oh well, looks like Joelsuf right above is telling you something similar.
Nope. That’s a NAWALT rationalization. Now its not healthy to regard AWALT as a law and using it as a defense mechanism (this is what Closeted Homo MGTOW do), but as an alpha male, assuming AWALT but not caring is a way you can stop catching feelings. Because once you start believing that there is no such thing as a loyal chick, you can start also believing that you too have virtually unlimited options and opportunities for chicks.
Because Which is worse, always being on guard by claiming that chicks cheat all the time, or not being on guard, catching feelings and getting one-itis by convincing yourself that the chick you go out with ISN’T gonna cheat?
Don’t make me curious like that lol
While I will admit I’m quite prone to one-itis, I don’t care about “cheating”. Liking someone very much, even loving someone, doesn’t equate to “owning”. I can think of no good (rational) reason to be opposed to her fucking someone else as well.
Again, I am just saying I would be really surprised if my wife turned out to be “cheating”. JOTB simply won’t have it (“she will cheat on you, if she isn’t already”). But I even encouraged her, because I think her sexuality would benefit from it. It would make her view sex outside the “transactional sphere” and back into the visceral (and that would benefit me, because I got really turned off of the transactional sex). I think JOTBs reaction of “she prefers it if it hurts you, otherwise it’s no fun” sounds like the stuff posted on MGOTW message boards…
Yeah, you gotta get burned a few times in order to be completely absent of catching feelings or at least to know when it is alright to catch feelings (which is when she catches feelings first, that’s how much a game of chicken monogamy is).
Logically of course not. But SP works in powerful and mysterious ways. And one of those powerful and mysterious ways is to change a human’s brain chemistry. So while you know logically that liking someone doesn’t mean you “own” them, your brain will still think that you do.
Which cancels out your previous argument, albeit unintentionally. When you encouraged her, you were saying “go run around then come back to me when you want the sex to be ‘organic.’ Because its only gonna be ‘organic’ when its with me.” It doesn’t work that way. You still put stupid amounts of pressure on her.
Like always, feminine men and testosterone-dripping termagants act the other way round.
Those women will tell you how they have important positions in 2 companies, 2,000 followers on Facebook, are intelligent, strong of character, and so much more (if it’s a chat, they’ll unload pictures like those they post on their social media accounts, aimed at getting their narcissistic supply from your compliments, and show signs of imbalance, which can reach open hysteria, if you don’t pay them the supply).
@joelsuff
I am a very rational human with a mind very different from normal people. So, for all my life, despite my nature being inclined to want to own my mate, I never thought I owned anybody when they hadn’t told me that they wanted to be owned/had appointed me as their owner.
Things changed drastically when they told me that.
A depressing amount of years was spent in understanding that what our simplicity-aiming brain classifies as one person (and they classify as their selves) is many things.
One of things is speaking when she tells you she wants to be owned, today.
Another one will take the microphone and speak loud post-NRE, telling you that you are a scary orc for having ever thought of owning her.
When you point out that she said all of that before, they’ll be incredulous: no, I never said that/I was misunderstood.
One day you read a book where they speak of the Persona, the Animus, the ego, Id, … you realize that dealing with the others is to be a good community manager.
And that what is said, what is thought, what is unconsciously thought are always 3 different things.
The relational puzzle game, I would call it.
@Vincent:
This is a problem that you need to fix ASAP.
In order to cure your oneitis, you should take your own advice and sleep with a few other women.
So would every husband who were to have ever found out about me and his wife. Very surprised. Do you think any husband who catches his wife in bed with another man shrugs and says “I knew it.” Haha!
It’s called human nature.
Which made her think you don’t care about her and aren’t turned on by her, which is insulting.
Wait, so she’s a gold digger whom you were having sex for money with? That’s sad.
No, I never said she’d prefer it if it hurts you. I said, she’d prefer it if you don’t know about it. She’d also prefer it if you cared and if you were turned on by her. Jesus Christ dude!
@Joelsuf:
I never said anything about being indiscreet or bragging on social media. Re-read what I wrote.
I never said anything even close to this. Re-read what I wrote.
Why not? I’m not saying “don’t be classy about it” or “brag to everyone like an idiot,” but I’ve always considered sleeping with someone taken to be a triumph of nature over programming, and hence something that people (both men and women) with game should be proud of. Anything that undoes monogamy or pokes holes in its façade is a proud accomplishment. If my girlfriend tells me she fucked a married man, I react with extra positivity.
Well, at least you’re honest.
No one is talking about using sex as a way to manipulate people. Who are we manipulating? The innocent spouses? How are we manipulating them? They don’t even know what we’re doing.
I never said anything even remotely about using sex as a weapon. Re-read what I wrote.
I agree with the bolded part. Maybe not “of all time,” but white people today are indeed the only race that it is socially acceptable to be racist against, and indeed even legally acceptable if you factor in things like affirmative action. That doesn’t mean I’m against racial equality (I’m quite for it) or equality between men and women (I’m for that as well), but if you read the writing on the wall all over our culture, you’ll see that whites are literally the only race that it is perfectly okay to hate and encourage genocide against without losing one’s job or social status. White guilt and white bashing is at an all time high. I’d even go so far as to say it’s “open season” on white people, which should disgust anyone who’s in favor of racial equality. It’s incredible that you can’t see this.
The true red pill can easily be distinguished from the counterfeits. If someone is preaching traditional conservative Disney values (alt-right), you know they’re blue pill. If someone is preaching hatred against people due to their genetic characteristics (whether based on race or sex), you know they’re blue pill. If someone is preaching in favor of monogamy and calling it “settling down,” you know they’re blue pill. The red pill is about truth and freedom, which includes not owning someone’s body just because you’re having sex with them (and therefore, not being outraged by so called “cheating,” since you’re aware that monogamy doesn’t exist).
First of all, I’m only triggered by the word “trigger.” Seriously, stop using PC buzzwords. Second of all, what do you mean by “one line of dialogue?” I had problems with multiple paragraphs and lines of dialogue from you, all of which I quoted in my last response to you. Re-read what I wrote.
Or you can give yourself permission to “catch feelings” as long as you don’t offer the woman monogamy. Just continue sleeping with other women (while she sleeps with other men), but make her your primary girlfriend.
Exactly. And this includes the married and taken ones because there’s no such thing as a loyal (monogamous) chick, and you, as an alpha, don’t indulge in other people’s Disney delusions and fictional social constructions.
False dilemma. How about a third option? Don’t be on guard for cheating, but catch feelings anyway. Fall in love with her while she fucks other men and you fuck other women. Simple.
But why would you want to avoid catching feelings? I don’t get it.
Right, but why would you indulge in monogamy?
Well I’ve trained my brain out of that. It’s not hard, once you, dare I say it, take the red pill.
Good God.
This just turned into a mess, far removed from the original subject of this article.
And they say we woman are drama! Haha
I’m against all forms of equality, because it doesn’t exist. It CAN’T exist because we have preferences. And now, currently, everyone is OBSESSED with being a victim. The illusion of “equality” is one of the reasons why the collective IQ of the west is going down more and more. Its a communist psyop.
I wouldn’t. I was just describing what monogamy was, which is a game of chicken. Whoever catches feelings first loses their power.
I’m going alpha 1 here, but catching feelings is for fairies and pussies. Men with balls don’t look to chicks (or even worse, one particular chick) to make them happy. They look to chicks to be one ounce happier.
Again, at the expense of being an alpha 1, just because I would be able to handle that wouldn’t mean the chick would. Despite what BD says, nearly all chicks, when they catch feelings, are obsessed with locking down their men and enslaving them. Its not just 33+ chicks.
Why should you? I use it and “butthurt” interchangeably. Just like the words “faggot,” “cuck” and “snowflake” trigger the SJdubs (as well as defines them), the same language triggers the other side. They are just words, who gives a shit? I use “PC Language” to joke around with people in person, people from all walks of life. I use the language mockingly because they know, like I know, that its not serious. If they can handle it I’m certain you can.
Dudes argue and shout at each other online. Chicks do it in person.
Which is worse? Hmm………………
Joelsuf wrote:
That wasn’t my intention: When I said “it would benefit me” then I seriously considered that only a “side benefit”. I certainly wouldn’t think it would only be organic with me; I meant that maybe things would improve to the point that I’d desire sex with her again.
JOTB wrote:
Well back when I was a horny teenager, sex was obviously the most important thing on the agenda. After a while, the “been there, done that” set in. When I was in college, I had a friend (a “natural” as PUAs would call him) and he had insane amounts of sex. When he told me he preferred going to a concert over having sex, I honestly couldn’t believe him. Nowadays, I understand. Sure, it’s fun, but so are a myriad of other things. And please don’t feel the need to quote the articles saying “you must have more sex, it’s unhealthy if you don’t!” again, I’ve already read them.
You wrote: “She wants it to be dirty and she wants psychological control over you” which I then probably misinterpreted.
Hahaha no, even in my beta-est days I’d never go that far. What I meant by “transactional” is the whole idea of “if you do everything just right, I may decide to give you sex in exchange.” That is the stuff that turned me off. And that brings my ramblings more or less back to the subject of the original article (sorry, Cherie86 :-). Many of the things written there are just “conversational skills”. Paying attention to the other person, watch for signs of boredom, etc. Those are fine. But checking my clothes for smells of perfume? That goes pretty far. If some woman doesn’t want to have sex with me because of that, I consider it her loss. Same goes for “do you choose to be right, or do you choose to get laid?” – in my opinion, if I can’t have both, I’ll choose “being right”. I probably have too much pride.
And finally, regarding hooking up with married women:
I wouldn’t “take pride” in it. You’re still encouraging those people to break a promise they made. Whether they should have made that promise in the first place is irrelevant. This is like saying you encourage people to steal because you don’t believe in the concept of property. You’re free to discuss your points of view and can try to convince people to re-negotiate the contracts/promises they made, but one-sided breaking of them is not cool in my book.
Of course it wasn’t your intention. However secondary effects exist, and no matter how good your intentions would be they will be interpreted in a different way. Don’t be like the common statist and disregard secondary effects.
Which is still a benefit nonetheless. You want specific outcomes from this.
Maybe? Men with balls don’t deal with “maybe” when it comes to this kind of stuff. Either you want sex with her or you don’t. So if you don’t, soft next her, take some time off, find another chick that you like who actually makes you horny, move on with your life. If she wants to get back into it, she’ll find you.
I mean if you want her to have your kid I suppose you would have to work something out, but why you would want a kid in this day and age where men are soon gonna have to face what women had to face back in the day (little to no choice, fewer opportunities than chicks, looking to a chicks approval to do anything involving self-determination)?
I’m just trying to get you to realize that you are smothering this poor lady and that you don’t deserve the pressure that you are putting on yourself or her. Dick move, man.
Men with balls also don’t apologize to chicks who they don’t have a connection with. And you did nothing wrong. We’re having a discussion. If people want to be butthurt or triggered or whatever from these kinds of discussions, then let them stay butthurt or triggered.
Excuse the tough love but from what I’ve seen in this discourse, you kinda need it.
@Vincent:
You sound like a hot girl.
Your low sex drive is very rare among men and it won’t be too welcome here.
She wants discretion. And she wants you to care and think that you’re the only one for her. She wants you to pedestal her. Her desire for pedestaling is independent of her desire to cheat. So when you told her that you don’t care if she sleeps with other men, her disgusted reaction shouldn’t be taken as evidence that she doesn’t want to cheat, but that you are disappointing her desire to be pedestaled, regardless of whether she wants to cheat or not.
Yeah, I consider that gold digger behavior and unacceptable. A woman is not allowed to “give” me sex. She must enthusiastically “receive” it. If the sex isn’t in exchange for sex, it’s prostitution. And that does not hold my interest.
Correct. A promise that is invalid within the red pill community.
Disagree. By respecting her promise, you are giving validity and intellectual support to a blue pill concept that doesn’t really exist outside the fictional social constructions of the matrix. Red pill people don’t show respect towards blue pill fictions. Doing so is precisely what keeps those fictions alive. Monogamy is a fiction. Pure and simple. Giving credence to it by respecting it and turning down sex from those who want to step outside the matrix – if only for an hour – makes you a part of the problem – part of the mechanism of society which props up these childish social constructions as valid and worthy of enforcement.
But when the sheep are taught that getting married or monogamous will not make anyone think twice about sleeping with their partner, they’ll be less likely to regard the validity of such promises themselves, thus helping us along towards a non-monogamous world. Again, by respecting blue pill concepts, like monogamy, you are reinforcing their strength and validity in the “spirit world” if you will. This keeps those concepts alive and makes you part of the problem.
Correct. Everyone who rejects the concept of personal property encourages people to legally steal. Why wouldn’t they if they don’t believe in property? If they wouldn’t legally steal, they’d be hypocrites.
I think they’re horrible people, but that’s only because I do believe in the concept of private property. But that doesn’t stop them from stealing from me on a regular basis. They’re called Democrats! And all these bastards do is steal my money, commit extortion (via property tax), and enslave me financially to drug addicts and the scum of the Earth via an IRS gun to my head (in violation of the 13th Amendment which abolished slavery). But hey, at least they’re not hypocrites. I just wish some capitalists would be put in power for a change.
You cannot “re-negotiate” contracts or promises if you don’t believe in the inherent validity of those contracts or promises. If socialists believe that the very idea of “property” is invalid, then stealing is the only way to avoid hypocrisy (which these evil bastards do). I myself don’t believe in the inherent validity of monogamy, thus respecting another person’s monogamous contract would be very hypocritical of me.
I also don’t believe in the bullshit concept of “intellectual property,” but that would require a much longer discussion about Ayn Rand that I’m not willing to have here. I only respect it because the law demands it and I don’t believe in breaking laws.
Just saying.
@Joelsuf:
Dude, you completely misunderstood me. When I said I believe in “equality,” I wasn’t referring to equality of outcome or result. Equality of outcome only exists in Soviet style or third world totalitarian regimes where everyone’s personality is crushed into a “sameness,” thus forcing everyone to make the same choices, and therefore, have equal outcomes.
But the more free the country is, the more people will make different choices from other people, thus leading to less and less equal outcomes. The less equality of outcome there is, the more freedom your country enjoys. I’m not some social justice idiot, dude.
When I said I believe in “equality,” I was talking about “equality of opportunity.” That can’t be measured by the “outcomes.” But I believe everyone should have equality under the law in the form of equal legal protection, legal rights and privileges, equal political rights and privileges, and equal professional rights/privileges in terms of legally allowed access.
Of course when we drill down into the personal/social/cultural realm, equality completely disappears because, like you said, we have our own personality preferences that we’re not going to give up just so that a bunch of “feel good” social justice morons can complete their horseshit “outcome image poetry.”
I know that.
But maybe you can steer him out of the monogamy trap instead of explicating on the dynamics of a blue pill fiction.
Really? So you don’t believe in serious relationships? Not even poly ones? So all you believe in is casual sex? And you think both BD and myself are “fairies” and “pussies” for being in love, or for having poly girlfriends? That’s sad man.
What she can or cannot handle is exclusively her problem, not yours. If she can’t handle it, then you simply won’t upgrade her to the next sexual level. Those who can, you will upgrade. It’s a simple process of natural selection.
Even if that’s true, it’s irrelevant to you. No one can enslave you (in your personal life) without your permission. Just don’t let her enslave you, and she’ll do with that info whatever she wants. Maybe she’ll enslave some beta sucker while continuing to sleep with you on the side. My point is that it’s stupid to reject serious relationships or think that love is weak. It really is what makes life worth living and it doesn’t require you to lose your balls.
And yet, just a paragraph ago, you went alpha 1 on me. Well then I’ll go alpha 1 right back and say that a “real” man uses the word “butthurt” but not “triggered.” PC buzz words are for the PC minded, not real men like us. How’s that for alpha 1?
LOL!
DAMN YOU, SPAM FILTER! I DAMN YOU TO HELL!
Sorry Joelsuf, you’ll have to wait.
If you have to throw a tantrum like a 5 year-old every time you have to wait a few minutes for your comments to appear, you need to go post somewhere else. No one else complains about this.
One more complaint about the spam filter here and you’re permanently banned from this blog.
Just to clarify, that was meant in the spirit of sarcastic laughter, not genuine anger. But I will, of course, abide by your rules. I apologize.
Black Dragon,
Cool article, and good insight. I literally just got back from a date with a girl I met at work. She’s very dead pan, and flat toned, with an expressionless face, but God, her tits are out of this world.
She was very hard to read, but her body language did not lie, as you mentioned. I would go in for the full hug, and she’d counter with the one arm side hug. In the middle of the date, I switched to the other side of the booth to be on her side, and she scooted all the way to the other side of the bench. If I leaned in a little, she leaned back. It was rough.
There was zero sexual arousal. It almost like she was A-sexual. An indicator that I’m spitting good game, and I typically experience at least once on first dates, is my boner. If I’m giving the girl laser eye contact, and the vibe is very intense and sexual, I’ll get a boner. I can see her breathing growing heavier, the way she talks is almost as though she’s lost circulation to her head. I get nervous (in a good way), she gets nervous, and I know in a moment that I’m arousing her.
6. Follow the boner, it doesn’t lie.