What to Do If You’re Unusually Picky About Women
The vast majority of men, myself included and likely yourself included as well, are more or less attracted to the standard “hot” type of woman. You know, the stuff we men all (or most of us) like, as dictated by our biology. Youthfulness, fit bodies, perky boobs and butt, longer hair, pretty eyes, and so on.
In addition, as I analyzed here, most men, being highly visual in regards to sexual attraction, also have a “type” that they are more attracted to than any other type of woman. Maybe you prefer Asian girls with small boobs. Maybe your best friend is really into redheads. My favorite, by far, are short, trim blonde girls with big boobs and butts. We all have our type, at least most of us do, and it’s perfectly normal.
As I empirically showed here, some types of women are more desired than others. Most men tend to like hourglass shapes on female bodies. Some other men like super skinny or athletic looks, but these men are greatly outnumbered by the men who like more curvy bodies. This is why strippers and porn stars tend to have bigger boobs and longer hair. More men are sexually turned on by that than by short haircuts or flat chests. But if you like short haircuts and flat chests, that’s fine. Again, its all good and all normal.
Most men who have a type will still be attracted to women outside of that type, and still greatly enjoy having sex with women outside of that type, provided the man finds them attractive. I like short blonde girls with big boobs, but if a woman comes along who is of average height, has brown hair, and small boobs, I’ll probably still enjoy her if she has an amazing face and a big ass. She’s well outside of my type, but because she’s hot, I’m still happy with having sex with her. Again, most men are like this; they have a type, but they don’t stay 100% within their type, and usually don’t want to.
(Hell, as I’ve talked before, most men are actually the opposite of this, and will fuck just about any woman you throw at them. Men are horny dogs and most of us will fuck anything. I won’t, and I know a lot of you won’t, but most men, being hungry, undersexed beta males, will.)
However, there is a small percentage of men who are unusually picky as hell. These guys have a really rough time in their woman lives, and they have only themselves to blame, as I’m about to demonstrate.
These picky bastards break down into two categories: men who have unusually picky or have ultra-high standards for physical appearance, and men who are into really weird sexual fetishes.
I’ve noticed the first category among wealthier, older men who do sugar daddy game or play around with high-end prostitutes. This guy will jump onto Seeking Arrangement, set up a first date with a super hot 20 year-old, and then when she shows up to the meet, he’s horrified that her hips are an extra inch wider than he perceived on her photos. Or maybe she’s about seven pounds heavier than her photos indicated. Or, oh my fucking god, her hair color is slightly different than in her photos.
She’s still a subjective 9 to him on the 1 to 10 scale (which is always subjective), but he doesn’t care. He gets all pissed off, cuts the date short, never has sex with her, then spends the next week bitching online about how “these bitches always lie in their photos” or how “truly hot women are extremely rare.”
He could have had sex with a 20 year-old personal 9, but he’s so damn picky he’d rather go without sex if he can’t find a woman who adheres literally 100% to this perfect, distinct, precise picture he has in his head.
The second type of guy is the guy who’s into some really weird shit sexually. I mean really weird shit. Like he likes women to poop on him. That really turns him on.
Obviously, this guy has a real problem. Not only does he need to have sex with a woman he’s physically attracted to, but ideally, he also needs to find a girl who likes to poop on men. Hm. Good luck with that.
Because of the mental barriers these men have set up for themselves, these super picky guys often have real inner game problems, even if they are woman-experienced Alphas. When that unusual woman comes along that 100% matches what they want, outcome dependence skyrockets. Oneitis is very common. Guys who are more beta instantly surrender themselves to these women and become slaves. Guys who are more Alpha either turn into betas, or they become territorial tyrants with these girls, and drama levels shoot up into the sky and stay there.
When these women dump them, these guys get very sad and/or very angry. Their prefect girl is now gone, and now they have to go out and bust their asses to find another one, if ever (they think). Over the years, many of these guys have written emails to me and comments on my blog defending outcome dependence, and even oneitis. This is the mindset you have when you surrender to outcome dependence, which is the result of being overly picky.
So let’s say you’re that guy. You’re the guy who gets really turned on by women pooping on you. No problem. I think that’s fine. Socially, I’m an extreme liberal. I think monogamy is not only stupid, but doesn’t work. I have an open marriage where my wife watches me have sex with other women, so I’m obviously not one to judge. Whatever you like sexually, as long as its between consenting adults, is perfectly cool with me. Poop away.
However, you need to understand a few things. The first thing is that you are a very, very rare and bizarre exception to the rule. Less than perhaps 1-2% of men are like you. As I’ve said many times, here at this blog, I’m communicating with literally millions of readers. I have to address how most men are, not the ultra-rare 2% exception to the rule. You can’t expect me to carefully calibrate all the advice I give to fit every rare and weird type of guy on the planet. I only have so much time, and only have so much space here to type.
Plus, I have carefully niched my content to a particular type of man, the beta male who is tired of being a slave and the Alpha Male 1.0 who is tired of the work and drama, and who would prefer to become more like an Alpha Male 2.0. If I start veering my topics into how to find that one in a million girl who 100% looks perfect to you in every possible way down to the individual hairs on her head, or to find that hot chick who gets super turned on when she poops on a man, things are going to get very confusing very fast.
So just remember that you’re not like other men. Nothing wrong with that, but don’t forget that because it matters. I’m a fucking weirdo myself, but unlike many of you, I’m self-aware about this and I don’t expect others in the world to conform to my desires.
The second thing to remember is the immortal words of Tom Leykis, when he said, “While looking for the right girl, sleep with all the wrong girls.”
If I’m in hardcore sarging mode looking for new FB’s and MLTR’s (and yes, nitpickers, I know I’m not allowed to have MLTR’s anymore because I’m in an OLTR marriage), while looking for short blonde girls with big boobs, I will have sex with a tall blonde girl with big boobs, and a short black-haired girl with a big ass, and an Asian girl with bigger boobs, and have a great fucking time doing it. Then maybe the fourth girl I have sex with will be my personal ideal of short, blonde, and big boobs. Yay for me.
Maybe it’s not the fourth girl, but the tenth girl, or the twentieth girl. Still, yay for me. I’m having a great time having sex with babes while looking for my ideal.
If your response is that you hate all the other women who don’t like to poop on you, and that you have little to zero sexual interest in them, even if they’re amazingly attractive to you in all other ways, then you need to realize that you have set yourself up for failure. Yes, you did that.
No, I didn’t say you chose the fetish of having women poop on you. But I am saying that you’re choosing to frown at the 99.9% of women who don’t like doing that, even if you find them physically and emotionally attractive.
These guys who say, “You don’t understand BD, I’ll have to go on another 150 first dates to find another girl who wants to poop on me, so I have to be outcome dependent” aren’t acknowledging that lots of those women on those 150 dates are going to be very attractive and exciting to you even if they don’t naturally like pooping on you.
And if you say they aren’t, that you find 100% of all of them boring and unattractive, then I don’t believe you. I have a hard time beliving that if, on a first date, you encounter a woman who is your perfect or near-perfect personal 9 or 10, physically and emotionally, and who likes you, but she’s not into your poop fetish, that you’ll say “Gross!” and immediately kick her to the curb.
No, no, no. I’m pretty sure you’re A) going to have poop-free sex with her, and B) enjoy that sex to some degree.
I haven’t even brought up the topic of getting such a woman to poop on you down the road, once you’ve built up a level of trust. Once a woman really likes you and is well into NRE, you would be shocked at what women agree to sexually. Trust me, I would know. If you give her or offer her OLTR status, double that.
The same goes for you guys who refuse to have sex with anyone unless she’s a 100% perfect personal 10 in literally every way imaginable, down to microscopic evidence. Don’t bullshit me. I know that a woman who comes close to this ideal would really make you happy sexually, and in a (nonmonogamous!) relationship as well. Again, this “all other women suck” thing you ultra-picky guys have is a self-imposed barrier that you have the ability to bring down, or at least relax a little.
Yes, it will be harder to find these perfect women you desire. I’m not denying that. What I’m denying is your ability to enjoy a large number of other accessible women while you’re looking for Ms. Perfect Supermodel or Ms. Poop. That’s completely within your control. Not easy (few things in life are), but within your control.
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Personally I have had to next LOTS of women online because of having some extra pounds, especially since I lost weight myself. The way I see it, it doesn’t mean to me anything to increase my lays number with fatty girls. I imagine it does not register as ‘picky’.
Having taught day game to guys, I’ve often found that some guys will use the ‘she’s not my type’-line as an excuse not to cold approach.
They’ll use this as they feel they only wan’t to approach hot girls who arouse them, forgetting that if they don’t interact with women and learn how to flirt, then when they do run into their ‘hot 9’ they’ll ruin it as they won’t know what to say.
My brother is a classic picky beta guy, and it really sucks for him. He is still mourning over his very attractive ex-girlfriend, almost 2 years after she dumped him.
I am much less picky than he is, and have been getting laid a lot more. Been trying to come up with some actionable advice for him, but no luck so far.
It seems to me that the more picky guys are obsessed with the 1 to 10 rating scale, and I wonder if this is part of the problem. Maybe if overly picky guys consciously stopped rating women on the 1 to 10 scale, and instead deliberately went a little less precise. I think others have proposed three levels… Ugly, cute, and hot.
It it would be nice to get some other, actionable advice on how to become less picky, that I could pass on to my brother.
You lower your standards and take one for the team.
To be in a position where a guy is regularly rejecting very attractive women he doesn’t feel meet his very high external standards, wouldn’t apply to most male readers here, as he’d need to be either a 9 in good looks terms and/or be a millionaire at least 10 times over, so can afford to be super fussy.
In response to Neil’s comment, I think I might have a version of that problem. I don’t think it’s too bad however because my “type” represents maybe 10% of girls, not 0.1% or anything weird and super-rare. If I expand it to all girls that aren’t necessarily my type but that I find bangable, it rises to perhaps 40%. But yeah, to me it’s an extremely annoying experience to put in effort flirting with a girl who, without necessarily being ugly, just isn’t my type.
I do have turn-offs that many guys would find trivial though. For example, I really get turned off by bodies with “flat” shapes: calves and thighs that look rectangular with no ’roundedness’ whatsoever, trim body but with no noticeable hip curve. Or, you could show me two very similarly overweight girls, and I’d find one of them totally fuckable but the other not at all, because the latter is more “rectangular” and her extra weight erases any curves she might have, while the first one has a luckier fat distribution.
I’ll share a tidbit from my small town living. BD told me I cannot properly make his methods work by living in such a small town, and he is right for the most part. However, if you are able to lower your standards quite a bit, you can still have a few women on your roster and work towards upgrading as needed. I’m more interested in a woman who is highly sexual, and great at sex, and in my experience, the women a little lower on the scale are often great in bed. And often it seems to me, the women lower on the scale work even harder to please you. It truly is no hangup to me, nor do I feel my happiness suffer based on having a lower standard. I feel like I’m having the best sex and variety possible based on my current location and living situation.
My problem is that I meet a girl, I think she’s hot, can’t wait to sleep her, wouldn’t mind being with her for a while and then poof!! I sleep with her 3-4 times and then I no longer find her attractive. The End.. next. So I’m only picky once I sleep with them. I know I know.. It’s not unusual, but for me it is. I can only take sleeping with a girl 3-4 times and I’m ready for someone else.
I;m picky in the sense that if a girl doesn’t have “femine” energy I don’t bite, physical attractiveness comes second.
Correct, that’s not picky. If a woman shows up on an online first date and she’s chubby because she lied in her photos, I pass.
However, if you define “extra pounds” as a girl who is 110 pounds at 5’4″ instead of 105 pounds, and you’re actually going to next her because of it, then you’re in the category I was talking about above. Too picky.
Yes, accurate. I’ve noticed this as well.
To be clear, no one is saying lower your standards. My standards for hotness have increased as I’ve gotten older, wealthier, and have better game. I pass on women today that I would have fucked 10 years ago. Nothing wrong with that. I’m only talking about those hyper-picky guys, in the 1-2%, who need literally everything perfect or they actually pass on the sex. I’m not like that and never will be. If she’s hot and low-drama, I’m there.
Correct, and I mentioned that in the article. The problem is “afford to be super fussy” usually equates to unhappiness.
That’s not pickiness. That’s being a Thrill of the Hunt man. No easy answers for you, other than to know that this tends to lessen as you get older.
That’s not picky as I’m defining it here.
BD I’ve found that this sometimes is a temporary mood for some men.
Mice found myself doing this once in a while. I used to have this mindset about Asian women for a long time.
It’s almost like a form of Oneitis, but W/O the crazy behavior that follow Oneitis necessarily.
How to get girls to poop on you:
Oh man, BD, does this hit home for me. The second guy sounds too familiar.
Before I got into pickup for serious, I was decently okay with women. A cool beta or soft Alpha. But I had a lot of Alpha 1.0 tendencies – as in, find a beautiful young virgin to deflower and live in disney monogamous bliss. Then one day, I had my purity fantasy shattered, and I thought all was lost.
About eight months later is when I found your blog, and while I have had a few dry spells since then due to oneitis, I’ve gotten much more skilled at daygame and been able to shift ever further toward Alpha2.0.
So thank you.
Was like this for easily the last decade, definetely more harmful than helpful.
Still to this day love short, petite girls with big boobs and no plastic surgery. And that like doing it in certain preferable positions.
Went the escort route because it’s a lot easier to find girls with this body type.
I went to endless lengths to find girls who looked like this for years by other means as well. I actually did succeed in finding girls who fit this fetish to a T, and had some pretty surreal experiences as a result.
Things went south when I actually starting dating girls here and there who weren’t this perfect type. Very pretty girls, had some attraction, but it lacked that animal attraction that I get with my type. I couldnt even get it up with a pretty cute girl I made out with. I am probably the only guy who has been dropped by girls because I didn’t fuck them soon enough, and I totally could have. Just couldn’t get as turned on as I liked.
It really sucks to tell you the truth, and I agree with BD, being this picky creates outcome independence, and pretty harmful consequences. Even stating preferences that can make me shudder these days.
It could also be a combination of “high end acceptably picky” for physical appearance and an important kink (but not super wierd, for instance anal sex). While each thing separately is accessible by putting tolerable numbers. The combination of the 2 things multiplies the probabilities and it can indeed take 150 dates to achieve…
As I discussed before I have one important kink, anal sex. And I am very picky on small seated height of the women (I like them significantly shorter than me when seated, ideally somewhere arround 13%, upper body length, because it feels better when having sex such kissing and fucking in the spoon position for instance – and myself I am significantly short seated height for a man, so while this can be a given for a guy like you BD, for me these seated height difference is quite rare) I only once in more than 80 different women fucked with game only, and easily over 150 if I include pay for play and swinging, encounterd these 2 criteria with one of my favourite shape of body and face.
Your argument holds stong: I still have lots of fun fucking all these women, and I still enjoy the sex to some varying degrees. However when everything alings and I happen to meet and such a somewhat rare woman, it does reach another level. My question is: what’s the best strategy when encountering such a *rare* woman, whose personality is not OLTR candidate material?
I am talking about a rather objectively hot woman who is also considered really great in sex for most men. I feel if sticking her to the FB/MLTR level, if really lucky I can fuck her few months once per week. Let’s be really generous and she boomerangs 1 or 2 times it all makes 1 year of on going sex, that’s 52 weeks, so 52 meet with sex… Whereas if giving her a more girlfriend-ish status which includes seeing her 3 times a week or more, it’s quite easy to have the whole thing last 2 years. That’s 104 weeks, 3 times a week = 312 times. That’s 6 times more fucking her than the usual FB/MLTR thing. Probably more drama, but knowing that it’s a once in several years of very active dating, and that sex enjoyment is multiplied, I kinda feel like if the normal FB/MLTR startegy isn’t working on her, bending some rules and taking some drama can be worth it. Which rules would you bend first?
Note that I am not even arguing that it was better for my happiness to fuck this woman, because she had typical “perfect 10 personality flaws”. If anything, I recognize that it lowered my happyness level to fuck her, but once the first fuck was done, there was no way back… as we already dicussed, while I necognized that she wasn’t even OLTR candidate, I still had some form of physical+sexual onitis, so fucking other women, while fun, felt kinda bland and meaningless beyond a few times per month for pure variety meawhile I was dating and fucking her. After weeks or months without fucking her I slowly loose the vivid memory of the intensity, so my standard lowers again and it’s relatively more and more meaningful and fun to fuck other women. However I don’t get “fully there”, and I am not yet able to fully connect emotionally (which again results in a notch lowered happiness level than prior to meeting her, and de facto having a new standard being automatically set one order of magnitude higher).
Incorrect. It won’t take anywhere near 150 first dates to find a hot girl who will eventually have anal sex with you. Don’t be silly.
That’s not weird, nor picky. Anal sex is quite common. Once a girl likes you, if you have a strong frame and are doing everything else correctly, you can talk her into it in most cases. Many times you can even get her to like it. I’ve done this with several different women and I’ve never had a problem (and I’m not even into anal sex).
Jesus Christ. That’s what I’m talking about. “13% upper body length?”
Gentlemen, exhibit A for insane picky.
Bingo. Problem solved.
All the same usual stuff. There are no “special steps” to “keep” a “certain kind” of woman.
I don’t bend rules if they create drama, because I don’t do drama. If you don’t mind drama, do whatever you want, but I can’t advise you.
You are more than welcome to make such a woman a high-end MLTR, call her “girlfriend” and allow her to call you “boyfriend” if you really like her. It’s girlfriendish but not an OLTR.
However, as I’ve said a thousand times, awarding a girl girlfriend status just because you want to keep her around longer is fucking oneitis and you are a beta, regardless of the reason you use to justify it. So don’t do that. Keep bringing in other women instead.
I don’t think I’ve ever met a picky man. I mean, there are men with ideals but let’s be honest, most men take what they can get, which is mostly very average women.
Not sure but I think Gang wants anal sex as a receiver (strap-on or something I guess) – based on previous comments, and yeah that may be a little harder to find. I’m guessing that the more submissive types of girls might dislike doing that to you.
I’m gonna be the asshole in the room to say that porn might play an equation in the pickiness. I had an epiphany a few months ago that caused me to quit. I found myself fantasizing about porns, during sex with a real woman lol.
When you think about it, most sex is in the dark, and very up-close. The main sensation you experience is touch. You feel her skin, her hands, lips, hair. You smell her, you hear her. All of that should arouse a man like crazy… unless…
When we watch porn, we program ourselves to be aroused by VISUAL stimulation. Watching a bright screen, seeing the woman’s entire body lit perfectly, camera showing her off in the best angles, other dudes fucking her, etc. So this could lead to some very strange fetishes (wanting to watch your woman get fucked) or even a situation where your dick stops working if there’s no porn on.
I quit porno cold turkey 3 months ago and wow I am turned on by average looking women now, it’s crazy!
Incorrect. That would be easier to find than a woman who wants to receive.
Incorrect again. Submissive women do what they’re told during sex, even if they find it strange. That’s why they’re awesome. They won’t enjoy fucking a guy with a strap on like a dominant woman would, but they’d certainly do it if you told them to and that you’d really enjoy it.
I think porn contributes to an overall warped view of sex, not pickiness.
How does pornography affect people THAT much? I mean the induced ED I can understand but everything else, I have no idea. Perhaps its because I only don’t watch a lot of it. I’ve heard of people who watch porn for several hours per day…I don’t know how that’s even possible.
That does happen. I get like that after even a couple of days porn free.
Wait what? How would that be more difficult? I mean yeah, most chicks are bisexual, but I’m not too sure that the majority of them are down to get a strap on and stick it in a guy’s ass.
I would hate to have sex in the dark, and I seriously doubt it’s because of porn at least in my case. Lights on please, thank you very much. What I said the other day about feasting my eyes. Why the fuck would I wanna have sex with a girl in the dark if the reason I’ve moved things to sex is precisely that I was turned on by what her clothes revealed beforehand and wanted to see and touch more?
Now if I already know the girl well and we’ve done it with lights on multiple times, then trying it in the dark can spice it up, a bit like blindfolding. But that’s another matter.
Also think about this for a moment: why do you think porn works? Why do you think we enjoy all those camera takes in the first place? Because that’s what men viscerally want to experience.
Candy: What you lookin’ at?
Otis B. Driftwood: I’m lookin’ at you, mama.
Candy: Yeah, you see something you like?
Otis B. Driftwood: Maybe. I set my standards pretty low, so I’m never disappointed.
Candy: Oh, well I don’t disappoint.
That’s my credo right there.
If she can make my dick hard without actually touching it, I’m OK.
@AntekirttI already tried anal as a reciever and it was pleasurable and not the horrible pain a lot of women fear (with lube of course, without lube it DOES really hurt). I tried a woman with strap on, a man and also a pre op ladyboy. I like the physical empathy that I gain from these experiences. And if a woman wants to peg my ass, I am open to it, however this very rarely happens. I was hoping at some point in my life that I could be bisexual, however trying it a few times, I did enjoy getting fuked in the ass, but I fail to get aroused by men, moreover seeing a man’s face or body, or kissing a man, or a man sucking my cock, it all turns me off, I have to either watch straight porn or fantasise something else involving a woman at the same time and not watch the guy,who is in my back. I envy true bisexuals though, as their sexual possibilities are expanded, especially the group sex combinations are multiplied.However, I am not actively looking for that, I don’t care about receiving anal, all together this occurred perhaps 10 or 20 times in all my life so far.When I talk about “my important kink anal” I mean it as inserting my cock inside a cisgender woman’s anus. Not my anus, not another man’s anus, not a ladyboy’s anus, not even a post op ladyboy’s anus (post op kinda scare me because I can’t help imagining graphic details of the surgery they’ve been through to chop off their dick and dig a hole).
@Blackdragon
Yes, I agree having anal sex with any hot girl is not super rare. I would say 1 in 10 or 1 in 20. In my experience about half women are open to try, sometimes eagerly, sometimes after more more time. Not all women succeed no relax down there or are able to psychologically go go over the potential little mess of a little bit of poop though, and I would say only 1/4 of women can receive anal during more than 5 minutes semi regularly. And maybe 1/10 women, like to receive anal during more than 5 minutes and regularly.
The seated height criteria itself alone isn’t super rare either where I currently live (but it is in the west). I am 93cm seated height and the best for me is around 81cm give or take 5cm (1 or 2 inches) is still very good, over than that it’s significantly less comfortable for cuddling and simultaneous intercourse and kissing, note that if I was around 100~105cm seated height, as you most probably are, the pool of women in the world with whom it feels comfortable would be 10 or 100 times bigger, and this seated height thing would make no sense to me. I did measure a few women to quantify this, however I don’t usually go and measure women, I don’t need to : it’s very obvious during the first date when sitting and talking with her at the coffee shop.
Just a few days ago I had a first date with a girl who was smaller than me but same seated height. She was fun to talk to and I liked her face and hourglass body shape, but it was obvious that sex wouldn’t feel comfortable with her. I actually told her honestly that I wouldn’t see this going anywhere further than a irregular FB type of thing, but that I was open to trying if she wanted, and indeed she wanted to have sex right away. We did, it was fun, she tried anal but could not relax, I made her squirt (G-spot climax) and also clitoris climax, but not very comfortable beyond doggystyle without kissing, I couldn’t even reach her mouth to kiss her while intercourse in the spoon position LOL. Even missionary was somewhat uncomfortable for kissing. After that we measured : she was 95cm seated height, 2cm more than me. And that’s not abnormally long seated height in the west for a woman, it’s just me being on the short side for this matter by western standards.
However regular anal with a really hot girl of such a tiny format, I maintain that it’s a probability of one in 80 women fucked with game. Meaning years of active gaming, and easily 150 first dates or more.
I agree that it’s oneitis and beta to some degree at least. However, I didn’t say “become monogamous and stop bringing other girls”, of course I would continue fucking other girls and bringing new girls in my roster. You’re not answering the question whether my calculation about ending up fucking much more time such *rare but not OLTR material* women (meaning at least an average of 100 or more first dates is required statistically to meet such woman) when they are in my roster and if they are too unstable to stay around long with the MLTR/FB model, then for instance bend the 1 per week rule so she can feel more girlfriend status and so I can fuck her much more thus more returns on investments. I showed a 6 folds increased returns in sex with this method if your method fails in the first place. I bring up again the discussion because I am open to be convinced that sticking exactly to your method doesn’t entails a sacrifice in term of how many days overall I spend fucking such type of *rare* women.
*rare* again means at least 100 or 150 or more dates in average is required to fuck another one, I am not talking about women that I come across and fuck every 20 or 40 first dates, as I don’t really care sexually to fuck them more, 20 or 40 dates is NOT *rare*, thus the usual method provides enough returns. But over 100 or 150 dates or more, THEN I feel there is a significant sacrifice in term of sexual intensity of experience by sticking to the rules for staying alpha, not doing oneitis and my happiness.
Do you agree that beyond a certain rarity one has to make a choice when he finds such *rare women* between either :
A – luckily one of the woman is also stable enough (even more rare unicorn case) and the usual rules can work in the long run with at least one, so later one is upgraded (most of the time she’s the only one *rare* in the active rotation anyways) to OLTR if she is compatible, (but still since she is so hot you don’t even recommend it because there is high risk of oneitis, you recommend solid cute or low end hot for OLTR, not high end hot)
B – or sacrifice the total amount of days he fucks such women overall in his total life (since anyways there is high chances that they exhibit at least some of these “perfect 10 type women personality flaws”), if following all four rules and recommendations this is the most likely scenario since they are too hot (you recommend no OLTR with high end hot women) and/or too flawed in personality (because too hot, it’s related) be OLTR upgraded, or even just to stay long in the FB/MLTR active rotation (including boomerang), to provide as much returns in *rare sex+physical* than just 2 years relationship 3 days per week (it would require up to 6 *rare but rotaton unstable women* to provide as much return by following all the rules, compared to just one of them as calculated above by bending the 1 day/week rule toand 3 days and doing some level of beta and oneitis to make it last 2 years, still within the NRE).
C – or bend the rules a bit, see her more than once a week, play beta a little (but still bring new girls in the roster and hopefully come across other *rare women*, doesn’t marry her legally, doesn’t impregnate her, doesn’t provide for her, etc…), do oneitis a little, handle a bit more drama, throw in a bit more Disney, but this way he maximises how much he fucks these types of *rare* women overall in his life, when he comes across them.
correction
*if following all rules
not “if following all four rules” I dunno why I wrote four.
How to lower your standards and keep your dignity and boner: https://www.goodlookingloser.com/laid/picking-up-women/how-to-lower-your-standards-and-keep-your-dignity-and-boner
Do you guys see this same pattern – The Extremely kinky, horny ladies (top 20% that want sex daily!) looking for a man that would be just as kinky and horny as she is but agree in all honesty to be exclusive with her forever and not ever desire or do a threesome with her since she does not want them and him to touch another woman ever again. I do not know of ONE SINGLE man that has my high sex drive AND kinky level for adventure that would say yes to that prison unless he was deceiving the woman or just telling her what she wants to hear!
Do you guys think that women actually believe men that promise this? Or that most of these VERY high sex drive ladies know deep in their minds that the man won’t be able to do this long-term and so then they will be able to call him a cheater, which will then provide them a way to be the Victim again and get attention. Almost like they prefer men to lie to them so they have an excuse later on??
It is kinda sad it takes these high sex drive ladies all their 30s and 40s to figure this cycle out I suppose =(
Gang – Your comment is too long; didn’t read it. If you have questions for me summarize them succinctly.
Haha of course! And these women don’t realize that they , the women are the ones most likely to cheat in a monogamous relationship (since opposites attract, and they’re more likely to end up with a beta male with a mid to low sex drive).
Most women “hope” men will actually follow through with monogamy promises. “Expect” is often too strong a word, especially these days with cheating rates on the continual rise.
I agree, and have said the same thing before.
@Blackdragon
Wait! You said that women cheat MORE than men in mono relationships?? I always thought it was men that cheated more. Never heard it was the women that did more so then men! Any links or research on this by chance?
If they divorce/drop us 80% of the time and also cheat a majority of the time, this is huge. Because usually I would defend my approach to staying free because I (myself) doesn’t want to cheat and that men are the cheaters usually in mono relationships. But if they are equal or more than I no longer need to defend how bad we (men) are lol when discussing this issue in the future…
Uncle BD I need your help
I’m a decent looking 21yr old and very unexperienced sexually but I’m confident around girls good shape n dress nice
I need to lower my standards so I can date get few fbs
Here on pof okc alot of chicks are fat or super ugly , how do I lower standards for that I have decent good pics up but the hot girls online get so many messages . I don’t really want to fuck fat girls but I’m willing to lower my standards for sure to get laid any help ?
BD, you should check this thread out:
http://www.theattractionforums.com/showthread.php?t=184632&p=1049890#post1049890
I gave them a link to one of your posts, and one guy said this:
Now, I kind of admitted that your quote was a bit extreme, but I also said that I wasn’t too interested in marriage. He responded by saying that he knows more happily married men than ones who regret it.
No, that’s not what I said. I said high sex drive women with beta partners (whom they tend to prefer) cheat more.
I don’t think you need to lower your standards.
That’s true in every city.
If you read the above article and thought I said, “lower your standards,” then you didn’t understand the article at all. I said if you want to be hyper-picky, you will be less happy. But you’re not in that category. If you want to have sex with cute girls, focus on them, not uglier ones. That’s dumb.
No thanks.
That’s a common reaction when someone reads just one of my articles and none others to provide further context.
He is factually incorrect. Over 70% of marriages end in divorce, and 60% of those that don’t end in divorce end up as unhappy marriages. It’s no wonder he has such viewpoints about marriage if he operating with such incorrect data.
Obviously not my view.
Like most humans, he thinks personal, anecdotal experiences trump statistical data. Not to mention the fact that likely most of the married men he knows have only been married for a few years instead of 20+ years.
But hey, he’s free to think whatever he wants. If he thinks traditional monogamous marriage is a great idea in the modern era, great, let him do it and find out how it normally ends for the overwhelming statistical majority.
Well that escalated quickly.
@BD (if still too long, read only text in bold)
Definition in this comment : a *rare woman* is a high end hot woman as per your rather objective ugly, average, cute, hot scale, who also happens to meet the set of criteria in term of looks and kinks of a given *picky* man. An average or low end cute woman who meets the extremely wierd and hard to find kink of a man (for instance she agrees to swallow his poop – that must be really rare), doesn’t coent here as a *rare woman* since she isn’t high end hot. Over 100 or 150 or more dates is statistically required in average between encoutering sexually such women. Women a man can encouter every 20 or 40 dates are not *rare women*.
My question is : do you agree that sticking to your rules when encoutering *rare women*, and not bending them it doesn’t work on her, is a sacrifice resulting in less *sex with these rare women* overall in a man’s life, than if he bends some of the rules including seeing her more than once a week?
Exception being of meeting an even more rare unicorn who on top of all this goes along with the usual program and is ALSO OLTR material in personality – good luck with that, oh but wait : to avoid oneitis, you don’t even recommend OLTR with such high end hot women, only with high end cute or low end hot.
I don’t argue that this problem doesn’t occur if you’re sess picky or if you don’t give a damned about having more sex with these *rare* women, or that it’s not beta, oneitis, or that it’s optimal for happiness. You’re probably right about all of that. My question is purely in term of returns on time invested for sex with these *rare* women.
As I calculated in above comments it would require up to 6 *rare but rotaton unstable women* to provide as much return by following all the rules, compared to just one of them as calculated above by bending the 1 day/week rule toand 3 days and doing some level of beta and oneitis to make it last 2 years, still within the NRE. These women are *rare* so having 6 of them in active rotation at a given time is antinomic, you can maybe have 2 if extremely lucky (and this requires much more than 2 blitz per year).
++++++++++++++++++++++++
More detailed question if it’s not clear enough :
Do you agree that beyond a certain rarity one has to make a choice when he finds such *rare women* between either :
A – luckily one of the woman is also stable enough (even more rare unicorn case) and the usual rules can work in the long run with at least one, so later one is upgraded(most of the time she’s the only one *rare* in the active rotation anyways) to OLTR if she is compatible, (but still since she is so hot you don’t even recommend it because there is high risk of oneitis, you recommend solid cute or low end hot for OLTR, not high end hot)
B – or sacrifice the total amount of days he fucks such women overall in his total life (since anyways there is high chances that they exhibit at least some of these “perfect 10 type women personality flaws”), if following all four rules and recommendations this is the most likely scenario since they are too hot (you recommend no OLTR with high end hot women) and/or too flawed in personality (because too hot, it’s related) be OLTR upgraded, or even just to stay long in the FB/MLTR active rotation (including boomerang from LSNFTE), to provide as much returns in *rare sex+physical* than just 2 years relationship 3 days per week.
C – or bend the rules a bit, see her more than once a week, play beta a little (but still bring new girls in the roster and hopefully come across other *rare women*, doesn’t marry her legally, doesn’t impregnate her, doesn’t provide for her, etc…), do oneitis a little, handle a bit more drama, throw in a bit more Disney, but this way he maximises how much he fucks these types of *rare* women overall in his life, when he comes across them.
@ TheRealCurtis
How often do you ejaculate per week in average ?
How often do you have sex+masturbation in average ?
How often do you have sex (masturmation excluded in average ?
Are you on TRT/what’s your total and free testosterone levels/do you eat or take anything specific ?
And can you detail what are your kinks precisely ?
I am going out of topic here, but I have a problem with pictures vs. reality. It goes both in the good and the bad way. I often go on first dates that looked barely acceptable on picturen, and when IRL they actually turn up to be high end cute or hot. And tte opposite is true : I go on first date with women whose picture look really hot but IRL I find them ugly or average at best.
In both cases, the women put real honest recent pictures of themselves.
I don’t know exactly why I am so bad at predicting based on pictures, perhaps it’s passing from 2D to 3D. I don’t know how to improve this, I have a good 1/3 of really useless first dates where I immediately see that I don’t like her, and a good 1/3 where I am agreably surprised. It all feels random and I suspect I also reject a good bunch of profile based on pictures that would actually be cute or hot in real life.
Anyone has any advice with that? Am I the only one?
@gang
In regards to questions about my kink levels etc:
Have sex usually once per day and sometimes 2 x per day.
Might masterbate once a week or every 2 weeks.
I take Tonkgat Ali mainly and no testosterone anymore. Don’t know my levels recently.
Eat average stuff but work out 2 x per week and play basketball 2-3 x per week.
Kinky stuff is almost anything you can think of except no peeing n my mouth or bloody stuff. Or vice versa. Toys on me and her is great.
Everything else is pretty much a go off top of my head.
But my main lady last 15 months is higher sex drive than me! She orasgims like 10-20 x every time we do it!! No kidding.
She is now experiencing the AsD/Disney backlash and so leaning towards finding her a Beta man or just doing FBs.
I actually offered her open relationships or semi-mono (do threesomes as my compromise) but she said it’s a no go.
I did find something she said rather intriguing today. She said she would rather go back to just sleeping around w men and having FBs and when she gets feelings for them, just cut them off. But she can’t keep sleeping w me or make me an FB or allow me to sleep w others.
If you have developed feelings for an new FB, then isn’t it already too late? If her whole reasoning was to avoid getting hurt again, shouldn’t she only sleep w a guy occasionally?
But with her VERY high sex drive, she would need a whole shitload of FBs on rotation in order to not get attached LMBO.
So, she has a huge delima on her hands and she knows that her Disney side is clashing with her Kinky side and she is confused what to do. Very sad that women make things so complicated.
http://www.theattractionforums.com/showthread.php?t=184632&p=1049890#post1049890
That ROK article in that thread had me rolling my eyes. Do they not understand that they are just as bad as the assholes who they attack? Gotta love Stormfront lite aka Return of Kings.
And of course the PUAtards on The Attraction Forums (one of probably 7 or 8 boards I’ve been IP Banned from) would call BD bitter. When you disagree with something you do not understand, the only defense is to use insults.
I’m not picky per se, but I do have one specific requirement when it comes to women. They have to have nicely maintained feet and hands. If they are attractive in everything else, but lack attention in this department I’m out. I remember dating this girl for about a year, then out of nowhere she just let her nails get funky. I nexted her without hesitation.
This other chick I met had this thing where the part of her toe nail that was painted was grown out past the halfway mark, so basically she had half a nail painted, while her other nails were unpainted. She was like this when I met her, so I figured that once we went out on a date she would fix it. Nope, bitch shamelessly showed up in flip flops with that ugly crap. I still banged her, but was really turned off by, and never called her back after that.
One of my biggest worries is meeting a really hot girl/liking a girl, and ending up like Eddie Murphy on Boomerang. It likely will never happen because most women take care of their feet but you never know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP7_SIRfo-c
Damn Gang, I’m glad I’m not you. Good luck with your fetish/preferences.
Hello there blackdragon.
Apologies that it’s slightly off topic but I’m not sure when you might cover the subject again. I know you choose to only see a FB or MLTR once a week maximum to reduced any potential drama, but what if you were sure you would never see the women again after 4-5 months because she’s moving to a different country you would never visit? Would it be ok to perhaps see a woman more than once a week because any drama that might ensue further into the relationship wouldn’t be possible because you would never see each other again?
Thanks for you time.
Yep, still way too long. You must be Jack Outside The Box’s brother.
I only read the bold.
You’re assuming that “rare” woman won’t tolerate your rules, and at least 50% of the time, perhaps more, that’s completely untrue. I have had perfect tens adhere to my rules, and without complaint (not many, since I haven’t been with very many tens, but it’s happened). I’ve had women who made six-figure incomes adhere to my rules, and so on. I always stick to my rules and yet for some reason, everything works out fine, including with “rare” or “high quality” women.
Because of your oneitis and/or scarcity mentality, you’re assuming something that often isn’t true.
No, I do not agree. Sometimes that the case, but often it isn’t. Why the hell would a woman who is shorter than you while sitting not tolerate my relationship rules while other women would? You’re being completely irrational and not making any sense… a recurring pattern with your comments here lately.
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/
Makes sense…
Thanks,
Chavel
@BD or anyone really
Has anyone tested just not ever bringing up the poly stuff during the “talk” and just leaving it at:
– extremely busy w biz
– busy w personal stuff, life goals
– mono relationships just too complex. I suck at them basically, which is true.
Stop there. Just 1,2,3. end.
All of these items are true w regards to my situation so not lying.
Just seems like this might be less hassles than explaining stats, philosophy, religion blah blah blah lol.
Won’t work. That won’t work for The Talk because she’ll just assume that you’re open to monogamy in the future as long as A, B, and C happens. You need to completely wipe that option from her mind (as best as possible).
That’s why a key part of The Talk is to tell her that you’re not monogamous and never will be no matter what for the rest of your life.
You don’t want to end up with an OLTR or MLTR who is expecting you to turn monogamous someday once you “get to know her” or once you “fall in love with her.” Recipe for disaster.
Any student discounts on your books? £40 per book is a bit steep for me.
That’s precisely my point, I specifically defined *rare women* as also being high end hot (in the first paragraph not in bold, perhaps I should have written *rare hot women*). Not necessarily objective perfect 10, but objectively pretty damn hot for an overwelming majority of men. These women most of the time exhibit at least some “perfect 10 personality flaws” because they’re really hot, as your article pointed very adequately. Thus they tend to stick much less longer than the other women in average (more fickle or more drama queen or more gold digger, etc…). So even if they boomerang couple of times after LSNFTE, you don’t get to fuck them nearly as much (I computed 6 times less) as if you were to see them 3 times a week during an average of 2 years of the NRE. It’s easily doable without compromising on nonmonogamy, without moving in with her, without marrying her (but I do agree that it’s somehow beta to swallow some more drama throw in some more Disney, and it is oneitis to some level, etc…).
And even in the even more rare unicorn exception where one of these *rare women* sticks arround with all the rules and her personality is OLTR material, you don’t even recommend to do an OLTR with them because too high risk of oneitis, you recommend high end cute, (and perhaps low end hot).
Remember these women are *rare* as I defined in the above comment meaning minimum 100 or 150 first dates or more are needed statistically inaverage to meet a new one of them. So most of the time, there is 0 to 1 in the active rotation, 2 if extremely lucky, but certainly not 6 of them (but there can be many non *rare women* possibly even hot).
So my case still holds, numerically there is a pattern where there is a sacrifice of the number of days one fucks these *rare women* to stay Alpha 2.0 by the book. You can still fuck them sporadically in your life, but much less often overall. (And I don’t argue that it’s better for happiness, or Alpha etc.. you’re probably right about that).
It’s a bit like Roosh who writes things like he won’t choose a hot or even perhaps not even cute woman to marry, your system of course is much better since it adds much more flexibility though, but still it entails some sacrifice in term of how many days one fucks such *rare women* overall in his life.
So when a *picky/kinky man* finds and fucks a *rare hot woman* he has to choose between remaining Alpha 2.0 by the book (probably better for his overall happiness) or optimise by up to 6 folds how many days overall he fucks such women overall in his life (by bending at least either the 1 day per week recommendation or if very lucky unicorn the no OLTR with high end hot recommendation and probably at a cost of some oneitis, some drama, some Disney, etc…).
I am repeating myslelf again here but I want to answer this:
Because I also defined in the comment *rare women* as objectively high end hot (on top of whatever kink or specific physical criteria of the *picky man* they meet), Thus she has some “perfect 10 personality flaws” most of the time (more fickle, more gold digging, or more drama queen, etc…)
And even in the even more rare unicorn exception where one of these *rare women* sticks arround with all the rules and her personality is OLTR material, you don’t even recommend to do an OLTR with them because too high risk of oneitis, you recommend high end cute, (and perhaps low end hot).
So in all cases, your recommendations numerically leads to a sacrifice of up to 6 folds (as computed in my comments above) less days having sex with such women in a man’s life.
I am not crazy or irrational: I totally agree that if she is not high end hot, but just meets the specific odd crierias or kinks, there is no specific reason why she would not adhere to the rules as long as other types of women in average.
Good lord. For the sake of simplicity I’d like to try and summarize Gang’s “questions”.
1) Since he’s so picky, would it be ok to see a certain “high-end” woman 3 times a week in order to have more sex with her? He acknowledges that this will increase his chances of drama and oneitis.
2) Would it ever be ok to have one of these “rare”, hot, kinky, short-seated-height women as an OLTR?
@B
No, I am not asking if it’s OK as per being Alpha 2.0 by the book. The answer is no it’s not OK: it’s somewhat beta, oneitis and causing drama.
I am instead pointing a limitation of the Alpha 2.0 system (which is still by far the best system I know of in the manosphere by the way, and I recommend the books it’s worth buying them): purely in term of the number of days a *picky guy* fucks *rare, and high end hot, women* it’s up to 6 times less inefficient than bending the 1 day per week rule or if being very lucky and one of them is also OLTR material in personality, upgrading her when appropriate againste the recommendation to avoid OLTR with high end hot women.
My point is the system works great if you are like Blackdragon, without any combination of kink and specific physical criteria for which women meeting both and high end hot are rare (150+ first dates to meet a new one). Because then the rarity in these aspects isn’t going very much higher than let’s say a new one met every 20 or 40 dates.
But if you are like me, and it feels more important to maximise the number of days I fuck such hot and rare women in my life overall, I am askin if my computations are correct and incorrect. (I am not asking if it’s optimal in term of happiness or Aplha 2.0, it’s probably not. Thus there is a choice, a decision that I am pointing at numerically). For instance I could choose to loose one or 2 points in happiness for 2 years whenever a non Apha 2.0 complying rare hot woman is in my rotation and this way increase by up to 6 foldsthe number of days of sex with this type of women. Then probably after 1 to 3 years she breaks up, and probably never comes back or very low probability. Meanwhile all this time, I still apply Alpha 2.0 framework by the book with all *mainstream women*, even high end hot ones.
Or I could choose to stick to the book, and she’s most probably gone after few months. Including boomerang, that amounts to perhaps 1 year total of fucking her one day per week. She is rare and hot, so by definition it’s extremely low probability to have 2 or more at the same time in an active rotation (perhaps in the total roster there are some in LSNFTE but not in the active rotation). Because they are rare, most of the time there is 0 or 1 such women in the active rotation, 2 if very lucky, and 0 in the near future pipe, 1 in the long term (couple years future pipe). This is the difference with *mainstream hot* women: they are rarer, but not really rare, thus it’s not unusual to have 2 or 3 at the same time or more in an active rotation, and more coming in the pipe. Thus there is no point in bending the Apha 2.0 rules fir such rarer hot women but not really *rare*: it would not augment significantly how many days a man ends up fucking such type of women in his life overhall.
Or if I am wrong, and why or how I can overall fuck such rare and hot women as many days in my life overall by sticking to the Alpha 2.0 rules and recommendations.
It’s a bit too complex to put in one sentence, but basically my point is that there is a threshold in rarity+hotness where the system fails at optimising the overall quantity of sex with these women of that rarity+hotness level. I’ll try to come up with a mathematical formula though.
Typically 100~150 (I think I need 2 years minimum to go on this amount of first dates) or more first dates required statistically to meet and fuck a new woman of such type is already in the territory where a choice between Alpha 2.0 and up to 6 folds increase in sex with this type of women.
The reasons are 2 folds:
-passed a certain hotness level, the vast majority of women aren’t Alpha 2.0 compliant for long. They can be for short. And there are exceptions who can stick long, but it is far out in the unicorn domain.
-the rarity itself, doesn’t enable to fuck multiple such women in the same week, thus they are replaceable in the long term future (couple of years) but not in the short term future (1~2 months), so with the once a week rule that means most of the time a man fucks such woman 0 day per week, or 1 day per week, perhaps 2 days per week if he is extremely lucky to have 2 at that time in his active rotation. Thus the beta/oneitis idea to meet more than once a week both to keep each one arround during NRE phase (2 years feels realistic) and to fuck each one more days (3 days per week), thus up to 2*3=6 times more.
“Yes, it will be harder to find these perfect women you desire. I’m not denying that. ”
What what what? This is amazing. Just what, one month after I wrote you an email asking exactly this question, “how do I prevent oneitis if I’m into really rare women” you refused to answer it because you denied that there is any such thing as women who have qualities, specifically really kinky sexual stuff, which are difficult to replace.
Then you refused to let me debate you on the topic, because you said it was ridiculous and indefensible. Now here you are writing a whole fucking article acknowledging everything that I said as completely true. So weird.
Anyway I’m not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. Still want your help with this just as much as ever.
Please, please, please, advise those of us who fall into this category about what we can do to protect developing oneitis for these girls, because, as you acknowledge here, your usual advice on oneitis prevention does not apply nearly as well when you are much more attracted to women who fall into a small and rare category, than the women who don’t.
Previously just asking this question landed me in the automatic “YOU’RE DEFENDING ONEITIS AHHHHH SHUT UP I’M NOT RESPONDING TO YOU!!” category. I’ll repeat again, my only goal is to AVOID pneitis. You admit here that guys like me are in a more difficult position in this regard than the average man, so throw me (us) a bone, please.
I DO fuck a lot of other women and I DO enjoy it, but I have not found that this _sufficiently_ reduces the attachment I have developed for the only two women I met in the past 10 years that fit my particularly weird bill. It reduces it yes, but, damn I just _love_ that really kinky sex, and I know that from time to time I do beta shit that I shouldn’t because I’m being outcome dependent. I think I do a remarkably good job at NOT getting outcome dependent considering how much I do enjoy her, but still I know I need to improve because I definitely am not treating her at the same level of OI as the other women in my life, sometimes.
He has the Jack Outside the Box disease in which he can’t write comments less than 16 pages long, so I can’t read them.
If you don’t mind increased oneitis and drama, yes. As I’ve always said, if you don’t mind oneitis and/or drama, you are free to ignore any and all the advice I give.
Yes, of course, if she qualified in all the other areas (low drama, low jealousy, survives The Talk, etc).
Saying some women take more time to replace than others doesn’t contradict anything I said in that email, or in the thread you’re referring to, or anything I’ve ever said anywhere. There is a big difference between saying a woman may take longer to replace than saying she is difficult to replace. There is a big difference between saying a woman may take longer to replace and saying that she will take 200 dates to replace, which is what you said in your email. Later you said 100 dates in that thread, when you were, yet again, posting under a different identity multiple times in the same thread (which will get you banned from this blog if you do it again).
(You will now scream you head off saying you weren’t implying that or that I’m using semantics, but I’m not interested in having that conversation. If you think I don’t know how to read, that’s fine.)
It’s the same advice as ever, nothing different. Read this and this and chapter 13 in this book.
This is has nothing to to with my system or my advice. If you are only attracted to women who will poop on you (for example) or women who have a specific percentage height ratio when seated (as another insane example, like Gang has) then no system of avoiding oneitis will work as well, because you’ve set yourself up for failure, as I said in the article. You’re making a choice to make this all harder on yourself. I suggest re-reading the article.
Because of your fault, yes. You could lighten up a little if you really wanted to (which is something I strongly doubt based on the tone of your posts). Beyond that, I have no answers for you.
I see. Your math is probably correct on being able to fuck her more times while she’s around, though I doubt she’d stick around for multiple years if you’re seeing her 3 times a week. I say just do it, have your fun, see how it works out for you and report back with your findings. Maybe you’ll have a better system for guys like you.
Gang, I agree with what B says above.
You’ve already done a lot of thinking about this, and it sounds like it works for you, as a really picky guy.
BD has his system, which works for lots of people, but you are not BD, so he is never going to believe that your system is better.
Don’t worry about what BD or the rest of us think.
Test your system, keep good records, and see if it works for you to increase your overall happiness.
Ok, what about this approach when it comes to the “talk” vs going into the poly stuff always. This hit me today when thinking about a lady that we just split of. As I anaylised the fears and logic behind it, I came to the realization that most women have very low opinions of MEN in general. This lady even told me that she was “Priceless” and I was not. This is what they mean when they say things like “I know my value” btw. It seems to be a key into them having Princess Syndrome etc. So, here is my new idea so she what you guys think of it in general? Basically, I would just ASK 6 QUESTIONS in the beginning and they are:
a) Her View of Men – Date # 1 (or via texting) I try to get a feeling as to her dislike OR distrust Men overall. Does she feel that we are all cheaters or most of us are bad? Does she feel like there are no more “good men” left in the world etc? I will ask her if all of her serious relationships ended with the man cheating on her? Basically, is she a man hater or not and to what degree. Not so much a man hater like as in Feminists but more so when it comes to trusting men. I ask what % of men does she think are this way? 8 out of 10? 80%??
b) Power of Self-Fulfilling Prophecies – I also about her views on self-fullfiling prophecies in general on a sub-conscience level and see her responses. I will ask her if I didn’t believe that our relationship could grow, does she feel that that belief I had would effect our relationships growth and that I would do stuff to make the relatoionship self destruct subconscienly. Usually they agree that this can happen.
c) Risk Aversion? – I will ask her questions like if she thought that virtually ALL airplanes crashed into the Sea, would she fly in them? Would she be flying all the time too. Or if she thought that all Ford trucks would fail her eventually or faster then Dodge trucks, would she buy one and put her trust into one? What failure % would make her not fly? 50%? 80%? What is her aversion to risk?
d) Logic or Faith Person – I then ask her that when it comes to making HUGE decisions in life, is she one to analysis the specifics of the contracts and details or just lean on Faith or Believe it will just work out. Just use her gut? Does she use faith when making decisions about driving in the Snow? How about her kids turning out good? etc….(later on this issue always comes up) Did she use her gut always since a kid? Did she use her gut when asking her 2 ex husbands to get married and divorced?
e) In the Box or Out of the Box Person – Finally, I ask her if she feels she is one to follow the crowd or be more of an out-of-box thinker when it comes to solving complex problems. I explain how I am the same way and that is great! I ask her if that is what she wants in a man?
f) Stats – I will ask her if she is aware that 80% of divorces are filled by women and why does she feel that it is usually the female that breaks up mono relationships? Let her know how this scrares me.
Then, when the “talk” comes up, I would explain that it makes zero sense to be exclusive with her because of her view of men overall. Plus, why would a woman agree to do that if she truly believes that we are mostly cheaters? If Men are scum of the earth, cheaters and can’t be trusted, then she should not be desiring me to be monogoous with her correct? Additionally, why would I want to take that risk with ONE woman forever that thinks of men that badly? At minimum, she should have to prove herself to me over a long-term window or it would seem like a trap since it does not jive with her answers above. She could create a self-full prop that leads to drama so that I wanna cheat and she can be the Victim. If she says she was just going to have faith, go to her answers on that. Etc…
This almost seems like a better approach that could help them learn to not be such man haters and understand why it scares men like me so much to be exclusive with a woman that thinks this way about men in general! Then, if I did have feelings for her, explain that – I love and care for you and can relate as to why you feel this way because of all the socital programming, per pressure, “in-the-box group think and Disney stuff. That I am willing to still see her and love her but I can’t take the risk to allow myself to put in that kind of situation to be used and abused and dropped like a hot potato when you get bored.
What yall think?
@jackbenimble
Yes, I liked your idea for the debate. We are somehow in the same boat when you say you fucked 2 of your *rare type of women* in about 10 years. I do agree with blackdragon that it’s still enjoyable to fuck other women meanwhile and that somehow we set ourself up for failure by becoming so picky. I think mostly where we are fucked is that while we get obsessed with certain kinks or looks, more mainstream men can focus instead on finding women with greater compatibility in personality, which then yields more happiness. But I do feel also that once you fuck a woman who is at the same time a personal 9 or 10, and also 99% sexually in synch with you, the experience is far far better than with other women, like there is a huge gap. For me it’s like stepping from 6/10 quality of experience to a 9.9/10 quality. And between that it’s almost a no man’s land, maybe there’s one woman who feels like 8/10 experience.
Therefore my point about indeed mathematically there is a threshold of rarity*hotness where a man has a choice to make: does he want to sacrifice happiness and optimise how many days he fucks such type of women at the expense of a bit of betaisation and drama, or does he want to optimise his happiness at the expense of the number of days when he has this much higher quality of visual*sexual experience with *rare hot* women. Because indeed the default strategy of just replcing her will provide probably 6 times less of this specific quality of experience.
I think, oneitis and outcome independance argument makes sense with 99% of women. And it doesn’t make sense if a guy who fucks only average women suddently has oneitis on a hot woman, or if a guy whos has had only 20 relationships suddenly has oneitis. But when a guy has fucked over 80 different women, including cute and hot women, I think he gets the experience to understand that if he is picky about some specific things, there is indeed some *rare hot women* who are maybe worth a bit of oneitis if the usual program finally fails on her. I am not saying marrying her, or even living with her, but 3 days per week and trying to make it last about 2 years seems like it could be a good trade off that can provide up to 6 times more days of top quality sex*visual experience.
@B
I agree that she wouldn’t stay many years (mostly due to the hotness factor, such woman personality is often filled with drama, gold digging tendencies, flickleness, etc… If she’s just cute but compatible with an extra niche kink then I agree with BD that statisticallly there is no reason why she would be less OLTR compatible in average, but still you have the problem that perhaps she’s one of her type in 5 or 10 years as jackbenible said), but 1 to 3 years depending on the woman seems feasible thanks to the NRE, thus I averaged to 2 years.
hotness: probability to go on a first date with a woman of this objective hotness level. For instance a woman who is more hot than 90% of women according to the averaged opinion of men is in the 10th percentile, therefore a first approximation is that there is a 0.1 probability to go on a first date with a woman of this hotness or higher. Therefore hotness=0.1 (the smaller, the more hot, the more rarity). In both case A and B we consider a HB8 meaning she’s generally hot, though many men consider her only cute, she is typically in the 10th percentile. An HB9 would be in the 4th percentile, an HB9.5 in the 2.5th percentile.
If x is the HB score in the 0 to 10 scale, the following gaussian is realistic :
percentile(x)=Integral((exp((-0.19(x-5)^(2))/(2)))/(sqrt(2π)) sqrt(0.19))+0.5
hotnessDistribution(x)=Integral((exp((-0.19(x-5)^(2))/(2)))/(sqrt(2π)) sqrt(0.19))+0.5
kinks: probability to go on a first date with a woman who is compatible with a set of kinks or by extension a certain level of sexual sync. For instance a woman who is more sexually in sync with a man than 90% of women is in the 10th percentile, therefore a first approximation is that there is a 0.1 probability to go on a first date with a woman of this kinks/sexual niche. Therefore kinks=0.1 (the smaller, the more niche, the more rarity).
plastique: probability to go on a first date with a woman whose plastique looks like a given set of specific favourite features of a man. For instance a woman whose plastique is more in line with his favourite type than 90% of women is in the 10th percentile, therefore a first approximation is that there is a 0.1 probability to go on a first date with a woman of this plastique niche. Therefore plastique=0.1 (the smaller, the more niche, the more rarity).
rarity: the probability to go on a first date with a given type of women. In this computation the type of women is broken down in objective hotness, kinks niche and plastique niche. Therefore a first approximation of rarity is:
Roster in this definition is the extended roster meaning roster plus active rotation. Active rotation of a given week is the set of women fucked that specific week. Saying a woman stayed 1.5 years in the Active rotation in total means the man fucked her 73 weeks in total (consecutively or not, there could be weeks, months or years in between).
Example : FirstDateFrequency= 2 first date per week =104 fd/year
MeetToRosterRatioForThisTypeOfWomen=3/4
TotalTimeInActiveRotation, example : 2 years
TotalTimeInRoster, example : 7 years
ex :A : 1÷(.1×.9×.9×104/365×3÷4)=86day=0.24years. In other words 4 new such women can be added in the roster per year => there is abundance, no point in trying to fuck any of them more, it’s more effective to fuck each one, once per week and replace whenever LSNFTE or drama, a oneitis doesn’t make sense neither subjectively or objectively.
B : 1÷(.1×.1×.1×104×3÷4)=12.82years. In other words 1 new such woman is added in the roster every 12 years in average.
=> the abundance argument collapsed for this specific type of women, some oneitis make sense at least subjectively. So when one is in the active rotation, fucking her 3 times per week and enduring some drama plus throwing in some disney could yield at least 3 times more sex with such woman, maybe 6 times more if she stays twice longer in active rotation in total.
When exactly does the abundance argument collapse? For me I would say arbitrarily that it collapses when the active rotation contains less than 0.5 such type of woman, meaning only half of the time in average you can statistically manage to have such type of woman in your active rotation. We could argue about the numeric value of this arbitrary definition. Some may say MinimumSuchTypeWomenInActiveRotationForAbundance=2 some may say =0.25…
Ex :
A : 43days => there is abundance since it’s very easy to have women remain over 43 days in active rotation in total including boomerang from LSNFTE and soft nexts
B : 6.42years => there isn’t abundance at all since I doubt most women stay 6.42 years in active rotation in average
I think 2 or 3 years in average for women to stay in the active rotation seems realistic. Let’s say 2 years. And compute the rarity at which the abundance argument collapses :
Ex :rarity < 0.5/(2*104*3/4)=3.2%
Let’s go back to the gaussian distribution, assuming the man is extremely mainstream and he is 100% sexually in sync as soon as his penis can enter the vagina of the woman, no matter how : kink=1. Plus he has 0 personal favourite type, no personal criteria at all : plastique=1. That means abundance for him stops at hotter than HB9.1, probably hotter HB9.5 2.5% it’s a bit rare, and HB 9.7 is rare. This guy is more or less like Blackdragon, the abundance argument virtually never collapses for him. To be fair Blackdragon is probably at kink=0.9 and plastique=0.8, so abundance stops for him at the 3.2/0.8/0.9=4.4th percentile of hotness, meaning about HB8.9, in otter words these are subjective 10. Oh, wait, what did he just say?
Of course you haven’t dated very many tens. But aparts from them, any women of your type, less hot that a subjective 10 mut still hot is abundant for you.
But let’s take a guy like me : women who like anal rough for more than 10 minutes, on a regular basis kink=2/10. Women of my favourite type (seated height<85cm) plastique=1/10.
We are already at 2%, it’s already not abundant without screening for hotness, meaning including ugly and overweight or anorexic women. And if we consider really rare means less than 10% of the time having such woman in my active rotation : that means in term of hotness just the HB2 and hotter. HB5 and hotter of this type would be in my rotation only 2% of the time. HB8 and above only 1.1% of the time.
Gang – Seriously dude, you have too much time on your hands.
<img src=”http://ftp.gameshot.net/community/fun/4294963215/20130722152222_104a554e.jpg” alt=”Same total height, different seating heights”>
@gang
Seriously man you are wasting yours and everyone else’s time with this stuff. Seems like you are more into coming up with strange theories about dating woman than actually fucking them.
To me all these arguments about how to date rare women sounds like this. “Yeah I know about gravity and all but I really like jumping off high things without a parachute and not dying when I hit the ground. Does anyone have a strategy for how I can do this?” Then you are coming up with all sorts of strange theories about how high you can jump from or what type of surface you could hit.
I have nothing wrong with people being into kinky shit so long as it doesn’t hurt them or anyone else. But getting oneitis for your particular kink and then spending you whole time trying to bend reality to fit it can’t be a recipe for a productive life or happiness surely?
Here is my question:
I have an 70% boomerang rate in last 4 years
The majority that did come back to me were ones that told me I was the kinkiest person the ever been with.
So, you guys (and ladies too!) feel that it is harder to leave man that is really fun in bed and do you think those guys see a higher boomerang rate compared to the more vanilla guys?
Yes. Most men are terrible in bed, so focusing more on her pleasure will set you apart from the vast majority of men she’s ever been with. That’s why making her cum every time you have sex with her is one of my cardinal rules.
For whatever reason I seem to attract a certain niche of women that resort to CRAZY behavior once they realize that I can’t be controlled.
Typically, it starts off excellent and great sex and they tell me they want to do stuff with me like threesomes etc but then later will pull it back if I would agree to being monogomous with them or whatever.
But then they start the whole deal of finding ways to accuse me of horrible things as if I cheated, manipulation, etc and will begin to tell all her friends and family so they think I am some kind of criminal!
Obviously, these woman have some type of Personality Disorder of some kind. It also has Alienation attributes as well. It always brings back memories of my divorce.
It is almost like they smear the man with everyone around her so that she can be the Victim and also to CONVINCE HERSELF that I am bad. Fucked up shit!
Anyways, my question is, do these type of women that do this also come back as well? Even if they do come back and I have feelings for them, is it smart to even deal with them with such HIGH drama and Princess syndrome or Victimhood thinking? Because there is some truth to that the Crazy ones seem to be the best ones in bed too lol
Not to be a master of the obvious, but I don’t think you should be meeting their friends and family after dating for a short period. I wouldn’t even consider meeting a girl’s friends or family until at least a year if that; and only if it’s OLTR. MLTRs shouldn’t get the privilege of introducing you to their friends or family. Plus, meeting friends/family can only work against you/make things worse.
The best that can happen is they think your awesome, but you and her already knew that! Worse that can happen is they can plant ideas in her head that you are wrong for her or some shit like that. Stuff that might have never bothered her to begin with, and now it’s an issue.
I also have the sneaking suspicion that YOU are the one attracted to these women. I find it hard to believe that you didn’t see red flags before they went completely crazy.
@Duke
Absolutely you are right that I seem to be attracted to ladies with issues. Damaged or whatever. My therapist one time years ago told me it is because I am a problem solver with lots of empathy and a Cancer so I want to fix them. However, I believe its much deeper than this because this does not explain the instant sexual connection or chemisty that I seem to have with them lol.
Additionally, one thing I have noticed is that if it is a lady with even a little amount of issues, I am so rare of a breed in how I do things (80%+ black dragon ways of Stoic, not bossing them around, not abuse, not jealous, not clingy, not cheating, not lying to them) as you probaby know too if you are doing BDs stuff, that it causes some women to freak the fuck out. They do not know what to do so they start shit testing to see my responses. This then turns into some angry, mean and weird shit. Almost like they crack or blow a fuse lol. All they were ever used to was Jealous, controlling or clingy men so they can usually claim the guy cheated, beat them or something.
But yes the planting of ideas in her head has already happened. I always find it cute how they ask the friends that have been divorced 4x for relationship advice lol =)
@BD
This post really got me applying my ENTP and biz Analyst mindset to it and it dawned on me….holy shit!
Both genders, but I’d say females in particular, GET PICKIER the older and UGLIER we become it seems now I’ve been dating about 4 years.
Men: we might be more picky about our time, drama, marriage, risk, money, etc.
Women: tend to be more picky about over analysis a man to death, his job, his house, his car, his hair, his personality, his clothes. They also become more bitchy and emotional with age too.
However, the Irony and I suppose a sad humor element to all of this is that neither gender is typically becoming more attractive with age! And yet we get more picky!
So, I asked 3 “Disney” ladies today about this delima. They all 3 just laughed and pretty much ignored it and didn’t really want to discuss it. TOTAL SILENCE!
I asked, “so you said your really picky and sometimes I feel I am too but we were always this picky?”
Them: “hell no but I learned and know my value now…”
Me: “isn’t it funny and ironic how WE get angier AND pickier the older we get? No wonder Monogomy don’t work”
Them: “haha guess so”, “yeah kinda funny dork”, and “I’m ageless can’t u tell and it’s about what’s inside too”
But have you also noticed that it seems like women especially become more angry, bitter, bitchier while steadily raising how picky they are almost in lock step w the ugly scale lmbo?
By our 40s a lot of men are comlecompl exhausted from hearing the same whiny entitled mindset so we are pickier too in some ways. Or just exhausted.
What you think?
Thanks
So I am curious about something. I seem to have this effect on women that a certian % say 20 will get really mad at me and claim they are gonna become lesbians, they are done with men, all men are scum, they find feminist lady friends who brain wash them that I am a horrible man for being open and honest and shit like this. They then get mad and break up as if I commited some huge crime and talk bad about me to others.
So, my question is – what % of these ladies that turn Feminist or picky man haters WHILE YOU WERE DATING THEM come back eventually? Is this a case were you look at what they DO vs say as well?
Or, do you see a lot lower return rate with them after they get brain washed by their new found Feminist friends? I am trying to figure out if I even attempt to re-contact these ladies down the road in 4 months or just assume they are a lost cause to the Feminist movement lol. I coulld guess that some of these are just mad and emotional and easily brainwashed so they are just saying shit they don’t really mean I suppose. So just curious if this was a asterik on your spreadsheet or if you treated the new Femi Nazi converts any differently or if you have a lower % of success with them? If they surround themselves with new friends that now hate you as well, surely it makes it harder for them to come back right? Unless they just see me on the down low lol.