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Why I Don’t Drink
I do not drink. I have never been drunk in my entire life. I have been a little buzzed about six times in my entire life. Sometimes, like when out on a first date or at a business lunch or dinner with clients, I may order a glass of wine and take a few sips of it, in order to put everyone else at ease, but that’s the extent of my drinking. I have never consumed liquor.
-By Caleb Jones
Quite the opposite. I’m against organized religion, since it’s just another form of false Societal Programming. I’m extremely agnostic, just a hair away from atheist (but not quite).
“Is it because you were an alcoholic once?”
No. I’ve never been drunk in my life, and I’ve never even had the desire to drink. Happiness is too easily accessible in other ways and with fewer side effects.
“Is it because your parents were really strict about this?”
No. My mom was a former nun but my dad was a left-wing, hippyish Alpha Male 1.0 who drank beer occasionally. Alcohol wasn’t a big deal in my house, for or against.
“Is it because you had some kind of bad experience with alcohol in your past?”
Again, I’ve never been drunk, and my parents didn’t drink much, so no.
When I was about 12 years old I stole a can of my dad’s beer from the refrigerator, took it outside far from the house, and drank about half the can, just to see what “being drunk would be like.” It tasted like absolute shit, made me a little dizzy for a few minutes, and that was about it. I didn’t understand what all the fuss was about.
I wouldn’t call that a “bad experience” though. I grew up with plenty of people who drank and seemed to really enjoy it. To this day, most of the women I date drink and enjoy it. The younger women drink liquor, the older women drink wine. A few of my women don't drink at all but they're in the minority.
Then why don’t I drink? There are several reasons. Here they are, listed in no particular order.
Reason 1: Extreme INTJ personality traits
One of the aspects of INTJ and similar personality types (though it’s important to understand that not all INTJs have this) is that you’re a control freak over yourself, but you don’t strongly desire to control others. That’s me to a T.
In terms of myself, I am an utterly ridiculous control freak. In my work, I’m a massive time management nerd and track my daily, weekly, and monthly activities using all kinds of nerdy but effective techniques (which you can read all about over at my business blog). With women, I’m very controlled and my emotions are very compartmentalized. With my physical fitness, I’m anal as fuck about my exercise, my blood content, and all kinds of other crap. I’m a control freak...but just over me. Yet when it comes to other people in my life, I’m Alpha Male 2.0 in the extreme. I just don’t give a shit. Women I date can fuck other dudes; don’t care.
Business clients I work with can make all the wrong decisions and drive their companies into the ground; don’t care. As long as I’m advising them to do the correct things, my job is done; if they want to ignore my advice, that’s their problem. The same goes for men I coach with.
With my kids, I never get upset and I’m super lenient other than a tiny number of rules. My entire country can go insane (which it has) and crumble all around me (which it is); don’t care. I’ll just move somewhere else. I just don’t give a shit about what other people do, but care a lot about what I do.
Therefore, I think that subconsciously I avoid drinking because I avoid being out of control over myself. At the same time, people around me can drink all they want; don’t care. My cupboard is full of all kinds wine and hard liquor. I never drink any of it. It's for guests. I don’t care if they drink, but I’m not.
Reason Two: Hyper-rational personality
I’m too rational to drink. Drinking requires some level of human irrationality, and I don’t have enough of that. Why the hell would you want to get drunk when it’s going to ruin the entire next day (or at least the morning) for you? Wouldn’t it be easier to be happy doing something else instead? Like having sex or going to see a movie?
But see, that’s robot-Blackdragon talking; it’s too rational. This is the exact same reason I’m not into sports. I’m too rational for it. Here's something robot-me would say about sports: “Wait a minute. That guy was on our team and you loved him, but now he’s on another team...and now you hate him? That makes no sense. He’s the same guy playing the same sport the same way. Are you saying you’re just rooting for uniforms? Doesn’t that sound insane to you?”
See? I’m a total buzzkill when it comes to sports. You don’t want to take me to a football game; I’ll complain and roll my eyes the entire time. I’m not irrational enough to enjoy it. Same goes for drinking.
Getting that cute girl you’re on a first date to have sex with you within three hours of face time is hard enough when you’re sober. Why in the hell would you want to make it even harder by downing a few screwdrivers and getting tipsy or drunk? Do you realize the number of guys who send me emails about all the lays they lost out on because they were drinking too much?
Starting your own business and getting that thing to a six-figure income is hard enough if you’re sober 100% of the time. Why the hell would you want to make that even more difficult by getting shitfaced on a semi-regular basis? Do you really want the extra problems? Do you want life to be harder? I don’t. I like things easy. But that’s me.
This is the same reason I don’t do drugs. I don’t want the extra potential for problems. Normal life presents enough problems already. I don’t want any more. I just want the happiness, thank you. The one time I drink alcohol, as I said above, is when I’m in a social environment and it’s clear the people I’m spending time with are nervous or uncomfortable because I’m not drinking alcohol like they are. Alcohol is pushed so hard by Societal Programming that many people do indeed get uncomfortable when they’re drinking (or want to drink) and you’re just drinking water. So to put them at ease (so I can get laid or make money, depending on the scenario), I order a glass of very pussy white wine (like a cheap Riesling or Pino Gris).
Then I take a few sips, and they think (or say) “Oh good, he’s drinking! Now I can drink! Thank god!” Then they drink all they want, even though I usually don’t even drink half my glass.
Here are the objections I hear when I make the above points:
I drink (or do drugs) all the time and I don’t have any problem. Just because you drink (or do drugs) doesn’t automatically mean you’ll have problems, BD.
First off, I’m going to be very, very nice and assume that you’re being 100% honest when you say that even though you drink regularly (or do drugs) you have ZERO problems. Based on my experience, I have a strong feeling that if I asked you some probing questions, we’d find that you have indeed experienced problems in your past because you drink (or do drugs). Problems I have never had to worry about. This is to say nothing about the problems you have yet to experience as you get much older (liver problems, blood problems, skin problems, etc).
But I’ll be nice. Okay, you have ZERO problems. Doesn’t matter. If someone doesn’t drink and then starts, he might not have any problem, or he might have some. But I won’t have any, ever. Because I refrain from drinking, my odds for any problems related to my personal consumption of alcohol are exactly zero. Can you say the same?
Drinking makes me more confident when I meet women. Then set a goal to learn to get more confident without the alcohol, and get to work. I’m perfectly confident meeting new women while I’m 100% sober. How do you explain that? Because I worked on being confident with women without the crutch of having to inject a dangerous, additive drug into my body to artificially alter my mood temporarily and then make me feel like shit the next morning. You could do the same if you really wanted to.
Studies have shown that drinking one glass of read wine per day is good for you. That’s because of the antioxidants red wine has. Did you know there are about a billion other ways to get those same antioxidants without drinking alcohol? I get those same antioxidants using vitamins. These don’t have any negative side effects. You’re just making excuses. Just be honest and say it: you like drinking wine. Drinking helps me de-stress after a rough day.
If you have one or two of these rough days per year, then fine. But if you’re having these “rough days” on a regular basis, then with all due respect, you need to fix your fucking life. My “rough days” are really, really rare. I seriously can’t remember the last time I had one. Back when I was societally-programmed beta male, I had rough days all the time. But I decided I didn’t like rough days, so I changed. You can do the same.
Dude, you just need to relax. Sometimes you just gotta live a little, you know?
Um, are you talking to me? I’m literally one of the happiest men I know, one of the healthiest men my age I know, I’m free to do whatever I want, I make great money doing things I love without working long hours, I have sex with multiple beautiful women with virtually zero drama, and travel whenever I feel like it.
I “live” more than the average 20 normal people put together. And I do it without drinking any alcohol. There are hundreds of things you can do to make you happier. Alcohol is just one. You can find many others with zero negative ramifications or side effects.
I don’t think I’m going to change anyone’s mind here. I’m just stating my opinions on why I don’t drink. When the downsides are so clear and the upsides are so minor, I always know what to do: something else.
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Brian 2015-10-15 05:32:22
No to drinking here also , enough to be barely social, prefer a Snickers bar about a million to one. B
Nars-ass-sis bolox 2015-10-15 05:59:18
You're right you don't need alcohol to have a good time, just like you don't need running shoes to run but it fucking helps 😉
Al 2015-10-15 06:25:28
Seldom drink nowadays but never on a first date or if conducting business. I'm quite fond of my liver and kidneys so they get lots of water everyday. 🙂 I am pleased to report though that I've never suffered from brewer's droop. 😀
Samson J. 2015-10-15 06:35:44
I really enjoyed this post; I agree with it almost verbatim. It's a little more complicated for me if I get asked whether I don't drink "because of religious reasons", because I am actually religious - but that's not the reason I don't drink! Like you, I hate losing self-control. A alcohol absolutely kills my Game, too. I really don't understand why anyone enjoys it.
Clvz 2015-10-15 06:39:04
Good read actually. my idea about religion is identical to yours, but I didn't manage to put in an organized sensible way like you did, so I have to say: thank you for that.
Nars-ass-sis bolox 2015-10-15 06:47:12
I've had some really good times on alcohol and drugs but i don't judge if people don't touch it as long as they don't judge me. Having crazy hours on end sex sessions whilst stimmed up and tipsy from the alcohol just wouldn't of been possible sober, well at least not as crazy hehe 🙂
lazy guy 2015-10-15 07:04:09
Another factor that turns me off to alcohol is this: we are endlessly brainwashed to crave it, and to presume it will create moods, feelings, experiences, etc. which we desire (almost as you can't get those things without the alcohol). I'm uncomfortable with anything that looks like a glorified or disguised crutch which helps me avoid facing & really solving my problems. Apparently for some people, alcohol is a substitute for self-possession; giving them permission to behave the way they want to do; a kind of liberation without accountability. We are also sold the idea that all kinds of junk food (and a couch potato lifestyle) makes people happy (but let's ignore how those choices give you a lousy body condition). With all the glorification of these things which bring you undesired side effects, I've started to feel like I'm a sucker if I consume those things, as in 'Now they've got you right where they want you; you're part of a herd of sheep being corralled'. Advertising (bombarding us relentlessly) encourages us to ignore how we must pay a price for our choices (beyond paying money -- such as spending your time). I could enjoy drinking some beer & wine if not for the various prices one pays, the penalties, risks, etc.
pogy 2015-10-15 07:39:14
Drinking is consuming a drug that will help you "hide" and not face your problems. Not "destress" as many people claim. It inhibits the anxiety for a brief moment then it shuts down your functioning (so you feel the emotional pain less) Been there, done that. This is one of those advice I regret not taking seriously. One thing that really never made sense to me was the "masculine" aspect of alcohol drinking..there's nothing really masculine about it other than a) drinking literal poison and b) promoter of estrogen [yikes]
JoshuaTenor 2015-10-15 07:39:46
Interesting article BD. Your points make logical sense and, btw, I'm also agnostic in the way you describe. You and I have a totally different relation to alcohol though. I really do appreciate alcohol, enjoy it, and enjoy the effect it has on me when properly managed. I have been drunk a few times and have experienced the negative side effects (hangovers) enough to teach me the lesson about knowing my limits. I don't fear loss of control because I know how to control my intake. Not everyone can, or cares to do this effectively. The thing about me though is that, in my natural state, I am just shy of being relaxed. It's hard to describe really. My mind works almost constantly unless I occupy it with an activity like reading, watching movies, etc. But the thing about alcohol is that it turns my natural state down a notch. I become a bit more relaxed and I don't think as much (this can be a good thing, really). Maybe it's bad to say that... I think it is another form of societal programming to even admit that alcohol has some positive effects on one's self... and people sometimes look suspiciously as if a person is alcoholic if they say such a thing. But alas, I simply have no fear of alcohol because to me, it's something I have conquered, control, and use for my own enjoyment.
JE 2015-10-15 09:41:58
I'm with you 100%. Booze suppresses. My problem has always been coffee (first world problem, I know). It takes every element that I enjoy about myself, thinking, learning, focusing ect. and makes it better. I will go about 2 weeks without it, then have about three cups/day for half a week.
Speculation 2015-10-15 09:49:46
Thanks for this post. I gave up alcohol around 3 months ago because I felt that it was holding me back. As I got into my mid 30's I was also concerned about the degenerative effects on my health, looks and mental stability. Hangovers would leave a certain fogginess for a couple of days which prevented me from doing my best work; a symptom that was also getting worse with age. Since giving it up I've finally been able to be comfortable with approaching beautiful women and my game is much more effective with a clear mind. I also have extra time during my week not spent recovering from a hangover. To make people comfortable I order a lemon, lime & bitters or similar mocktail. If challenged I tell people that drinking interferes with my goals, but encourage them to drink as I don't have an issue with it. Luckily I haven't found it necessary to drink to do my job effectively so if anyone gives me a real hard time I just remove them from my life. Easy. Honestly I wish I could go back and advise myself when I started drinking to just.. not. I think I would be much further along in my goals than I am. To be fair though, in my country there is almost a mandatory drinking culture which would have been difficult for an 18 year old to resist. For me the benefits of drinking alcohol were surpressing anxiety, helping me approach women and being social. After compensating for these treating the source of my fears there is no longer a benefit to drinking for me.
maldek 2015-10-15 10:42:18
control over oneself is one of the hardest things to master. 99% of the people you meet in your life will find all kinds of excuses, why they cant do it. Alcohol beeing one of them. It makes it easier to coop with failure and saves you the trouble to improve yourself. Improving oneselfs is hard work. Most people like to blame others for things gone wrong but never improve themselfs. Same with control. A lot of "control freaks" try to control others around them but not themselfes. This is a weakness. One reason why some alphas 1.0 got a bad reputation or are getting dumped by their wifes. Women hate weakness and lack of self control is the second worst after fear.
EurEye 2015-10-15 13:23:44
It´s not just the antioxidants and it´s not just red wine. Alcohol as such is just healthy up to a certain (quite small) amount. This being said, your point that the health benefits can be easily obtained without drinking alcohol remains fully valid.
tim 2015-10-15 13:27:14
Did my share of drinking in my college years. Now I don't drink a fraction of what I used to. Pretty much just socially and never to the point where I'm drunk. I was lucky in that I didn't inherit what my grandmother called "the gene" which has plagued some of my family members, seems like their problems never end and they also rely on alcohol to help them cope with them. Good article.
bill 2015-10-15 14:17:19
I've certainly see drinking cause myriad problems. hospital visits, fights, crime, jail time, fall outs, wasted time and money. You're definitely avoiding a large headache there. And it CAN often be used as a crutch to be confident/ uninhibited when meeting women at the bar/ club. That said, it can certainly be fun in its own right, being buzzed or drunk. It's not all marketing. Also, personally, I find many clubs completely unbearable in their own right; I'm only there for pussy, and drinking helps (to bear the largely shitty environment). I actually would like to (carefully) try many other different mind-altering chemicals (not heroine or crack or meth or anything like that, but a few others) ... because perhaps it can give you perspective and mindfulness to an extent.
Ryan 2015-10-15 14:58:19
Interesting post, BD. I admit I have as other here have called it "the gene" being 100% irish descent and struggling here and there especially in my teens with drinking too much and even occasionally now. And I understand your personality type but also find it interesting that in some ways we can be so similar but different. I think it was my early recognition that religion was BS and the treadmill society and a "normal" life puts us on that made me embrace drinking and trying other things. In my business and day to day i'm very decisive but I love taking a weed edible or doing mushrooms or drinking whisky and letting the night take on it's natural carnal energy and I do think you miss out on something special with that "at times" when you choose to abstain. Being agnostic is what makes me feel like I need to experience the beauty I see when I take mushrooms and try and experience a higher plane. I know you say you're the happiest person you know but we diverge because I don't see how you can look at this crazy world, realize we're going to die and have nothing after and not want to explore any way that you can. Otherwise what are you doing? Trying to accumulate the most stuff?
Diggy 2015-10-15 15:11:33
I may order a glass of wine and take a few sips of it, in order to put everyone else at ease, but that’s the extent of my drinking.I've noticed this too. Man, people get so uncomfortable when they are drinking and you are completely comfortable not drinking. Saying something like, no I don't have an issue with it I just choose not to makes them even more uncomfortable. In the beginning I would do what you do...just order one so everyone is at ease. Now, could care less... get over your insecurities. Sadly, I find the same issue with foods. I eat very clean and I can't tell you how many times I've seen people get insecure over a F'ing salad as they dip something fried into ranch. Or worse, I get called a snob a lot because they eat at a place that serves low quality foods I'll just sit there and eat nothing. I don't even trust the veggies at Applebees... Not joining in the self destruction with everyone else really pushed me out of some groups of people.
noob 2015-10-15 15:49:34
Thats very rare for someone living in the US that has never been drunk in his/her life without the religion / upbringing in equation in. Like, not even tried experiencing a drunk state just to see what its like. But the main reason why I don't drink is -Alcohol does not taste good. -Its expensive -You need to consume a decent amount to feel the buzz/get drunk -Next day problems. hungover, dehydration... Those are enough reasons to make me a once in a blue moon social situation only drinker.
Gluteus_Maximus 2015-10-15 16:20:36
"I drink (or do drugs) all the time and I don’t have any problems." LOL. God I'm still laughing.
JRM 2015-10-15 17:06:07
I’ve noticed this too. Man, people get so uncomfortable when they are drinking and you are completely comfortable not drinking. Saying something like, no I don’t have an issue with it I just choose not to makes them even more uncomfortable. In the beginning I would do what you do…just order one so everyone is at ease. Now, could care less… get over your insecurities. Sadly, I find the same issue with foods. I eat very clean and I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people get insecure over a F’ing salad as they dip something fried into ranch. Or worse, I get called a snob a lot because they eat at a place that serves low quality foods I’ll just sit there and eat nothing. I don’t even trust the veggies at Applebees… Not joining in the self destruction with everyone else really pushed me out of some groups of people.I eat really clean and only drink socially (one vodka soda that I usually don't finish) when I go out and both of these things make everyone so uncomfortable. I just don't get it - it truly blows my mind why they can't handle that I care a lot about what I put in my body. Not to mention, most women eat like crap (despite thinking they eat healthy) and drink as well, which often causes issues when I really do not like going out to eat or drinking, but doing more fun, physical activities. I'm so glad to hear other guys thinking the way I do, it's nearly impossible to meet other guys who have the same mindset.
Jack Outside the Box 2015-10-15 17:09:19
My problem has always been coffee (first world problem, I know).Dude, please stop internalizing the language of social justice retards! And dump your pathetic white guilt over having "first world problems." There is no such thing as a "first world problem" or a "third world problem." Your problems are NOT any less valid than any one else's in this world just because you may be white and live in the first world. That is a self-hating racist attitude that you just exhibited as a result of bullshit societal programming aimed at white people to make them feel guilty for being white and rich! STOP IT! You need to learn self esteem and treat your problems just as seriously as a starving African would treat his. There is no shame in being white or living in the "first world." Don't fall for anti-white social justice warrior racist brainwashing!
Buzz 2015-10-15 17:12:12
My belief in religion vanished shortly after my belief in Santa Claus for the same reasons. I had a roommate bet me I could not drink a whole pint of whiskey when I was about 19. When I regained consciousness the next day wrapped around a toilet I decided not to do that ever again. I can still drink on New Years eve or special occasions but don't get the urge to drink often that a lot of people do. Of all the drugs you should try some pot before sex when you encounter a young woman who does that. I think it adds a lot of pleasure to it. Perhaps you could do a report for us comparing the same woman with and without pot, so this would just be for science in your field of expertise. To keep you completely honest I think that many people would include injecting testosterone as taking drugs, it clearly affects your mind and body. While it has positive affects there is possibly some downside to it also. Risk of infection, risk of bad product (you tell the story of bad birth control pills, quality control is always an issue) and the long term affects may not be well known. Some would say you are addicted, I would not, you are just making the same decision over and over again that this is something you want to do.....
Blackdragon 2015-10-15 20:37:21
I think that many people would include injecting testosterone as taking drugs, it clearly affects your mind and body.Sure, a moron on a hater might attempt to make that "point," except: - I take testosterone to improve my life, not to hide from my problems. - Testosterone is a natural hormone that occurs within the body already, not an external substance. - Testosterone isn't addictive. - Most importantly, if there were any negative side effects whatsoever that I couldn't remove, I would immediately stop taking testosterone and never do it again. This is unlike people who drink, who subject themselves to the constant negative side effects of alcohol forever. Dumb. (At least in my opinion.)
Buzz 2015-10-15 20:45:24
If you need a needle to put it there it is a drug.....
tonystark 2015-10-15 22:13:28
A drug is "a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being." I've always found this pretty funny, since everything that is matter is made of chemicals, so pretty much everything can be a drug. I've been a part of the DJ-rockstar scene where drugs are just passed around like candy. You just kinda do them and it's just free-flowing. I have no problem with that, and it can be a lot of fun, the problem I've seen though is these people are running away from their lives. Running away from their problems. That's really where the issue seems to lie, no matter the drug of choice. Though I love booze, the studies that say it's healthy have been de-bunked. It *IS* beneficial however, because of you going out and being social. Hence why social drinkers or whatever the term is, tend to live longer.
Alejandro 2015-10-16 05:42:52
There is something interesting about an adult man who has never been drunk. Don't you get curious about how its like to actually be drunk (or high?). Is an entirely different mental state unlike anything you have experienced before. If I had never been drunk in my entire life I would be really eager to know what it feels like.
Blackdragon 2015-10-16 12:59:53
If I had never been drunk in my entire life I would be really eager to know what it feels like.I'm definitely not eager, since drunk and high people look like idiots to me. Yet your point is valid, thus at some point I will get drunk once just to see what it's like. Probably high too, once. Based on past experience I'm pretty sure I'll hate both experiences, and doing so will likely reinforce my decision (which would be another benefit). But you only live once so it doesn't hurt to try it one time.
Susan 2015-10-16 19:37:59
My siblings and I do not drink. Drinking takes away freedom. It takes away the ability to rely and build upon one's own natural courage. It diminishes emotional growth. Anyway... So one response Blackdragon received was: "I think that many people would include injecting testosterone as taking drugs, it clearly affects your mind and body." And your response was: "Sure, a moron on a hater might attempt to make that “point,” except: – I take testosterone to improve my life, not to hide from my problems. – Testosterone is a natural hormone that occurs within the body already, not an external substance. – Testosterone isn’t addictive. – Most importantly, if there were any negative side effects whatsoever that I couldn’t remove, I would immediately stop taking testosterone and never do it again. This is unlike people who drink, who subject themselves to the constant negative side effects of alcohol forever. Dumb. (At least in my opinion.)" I am concerned about the information you are giving as it is not accurate. Since it concerns physical heath and the safety of others, readers should be properly informed...don't you agree? Just one major point, you say that testosterone is not addictive, but in fact, this is not at all true. The body well becomes addicted. Just as a drug like cocaine takes away the brain's ability to create the real "happy chemical", testosterone replacement therapy can take away the body's ability to produce testosterone therefore creating the body's need for the drug. http://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/is-testosterone-therapy-safe-take-a-breath-before-you-take-the-plunge
grady 2015-10-16 19:54:31
Alcohol, pot or testosterone. Think of them as foods, drugs or tools. BD has his opinion on why he will or will not use each. Each of us should ask the same question. Why do you do or do not do these things? To benefit yourself or not? If you have an answer to the question that you can respect, all is well within your world. If not, ponder the question more. BD, I am a beer drinker and I am comfortable with it, but I can respect why you do not use alcohol. It seems like a smarter approach to life. If I was not happy with my situation in life, I would think of any areas for change that could create improvement. A clear head is a good start.
Blackdragon 2015-10-16 22:31:16
you say that testosterone is not addictive, but in fact, this is not at all trueYes it is. Testosterone is not an addictive drug.
testosterone replacement therapy can take away the body’s ability to produce testosterone therefore creating the body’s need for the drug.Not if you take HCG, which I am. Read my testosterone series for more details on exactly that issue. My body doesn't create much natural LH, but it still creates natural T. I'm getting very tired of your troll comments in the other threads. One more troll comment or uninformed KJ comment and you're gone. If you really hate what you read here, go somewhere else. If you wish to stay, then behave yourself like an adult, make real points, and back them up with real, researched facts. This is your last warning.
Susan 2015-10-17 00:54:20
I am not a troll...not at all. I don't understand why you think I am. Can you explain?
Blackdragon 2015-10-17 01:10:29
...you say as you leave a troll comment over in the Freedom and Happiness thread. Troll means "bashing and/or attacking without any other content." That would be you, all over a bunch of my threads in the last 24 hours. I know you're young but you really need to learn how to talk to adults if you want to play with the big boys. Aaaaaand you're gone. Thanks for playing.
Al 2015-10-17 01:13:04
BD..........I wonder where she parked her space ship? Or maybe she was drunk. 😀
Gluteus_Maximus 2015-10-17 08:06:19
People use alcohol as a way to be cool. People try to one-up each other all the time with it. (This also applies to marijuana. Just replace shitfaced with stoned.) "Dude, I got SO SHITFACED LAST NIGHT it wasn't even funny," said in a way as if they really think they're awesome for having done something the previous night. Unfortunately, I went to university (but fortunately, I left midway). This kind of shit is rampant. People practically LOVE "bragging" (disguised as complaining) about how much of a hangover they have. They LOVE showing people that they actually went out on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday w/e night. Or even over having gotten drunk on an afternoon. They LOVE having something they can talk about, stories they can tell. Because they don't do any other kinds of shit. They just do everything else everyone else does. This also applies to being extremely stoned. The SUNGLASSES, HELLO. It's not only to "hide" the EXTREME dehydration that their eyes are suffering from. They secretly think they're awesome. They put up with the problems they have because they get A LOT out of it. Then this sucks young motherfuckers into bad habits that often last for decades, if not for the entire duration of peoples' lives, because they are mentally weak to reject social pressure. With all that time getting fucked up and recovering, they could learn a fucking skill. MULTIPLE SKILLS. All those problems of "I don't have the time," or "I don't have the money," could disappear in an instant if they gave that shit up. People spend enough on alcohol and drugs that could instead be allocated very effectively elsewhere. But nope, because people are mentally/psychologically weak, Social Acceptance is higher priority, so they will put up with the problems that come along with satisfying it. As with the testosterone injections, it's not as prevalent as alcohol, marijuana, or hard drugs, OR even psychedelics. Meaning, his reasons MUST be coming from a different place, meaning it warrants a read. Meaning, it's NOT coming from a lack of social acceptance, which to conclude everything I've been saying, is something most, if not many people who use alcohol, marijuana, or hard drugs gladly put up with. AND AND AND AND AND, which is something most people seem to not be appreciating, is the fact that BD IS getting older. So it's interesting to read how he is addressing the physiological changes that come along with that. Insight from someone older = Foresight for the younger. Appreciate it. Even if it's just for a possible tool to keep in mind.
Dawson Stone 2015-10-17 08:53:09
I am a bit different in that I have done things in reverse. As a result of helping one of my parents detox from alcohol when I wasn't even a teenager yet, I was terrified that it would be genetic and if I drank alcohol I would become a drunk. I also never tried drugs at all. As a college athlete I was one of only a handful of people I knew in college that didn't drink. This was even more true in business school. I honestly don't think there was a single person in business school beside me that didn't drink...and most on a very regular basis. A few beliefs I truly held as facts: 1. Anyone that uses alcohol is weak 2. No one should need a drug to feel happy...a truly strong person is happy on life 3. Alcohol will make it much harder to stay healthy and fit 4. You shouldn't need alcohol as a social lubricant 5. etc. Then I got divorced when I was 35 and began dating for the first time in a decade. My date would order a drink and would assume I was in a 12-step program if I didn't order a drink. As a result I began ordering a drink and nursed it. After a few months and having a few drinks, I didn't mind so much. Up to that point I had never used alcohol as a crutch, for liquid courage, as a social lubricant, for acceptance. I got a huge amount of shit my whole life because I didn't drink and I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder about it. For me it was as black and white as anything can be. Drinking = Bad. Not drinking = Good. I equate it to the girl that was really awkward looking until her mid to late teens when she finally grew into her features. Now she is hot but doesn't have all the baggage that comes with having been attractive her whole life. Alcohol is kind of like that for me. I can really enjoy life totally sober but sometimes it can truly enhance life. For someone that has a lot of self control, it isn't that difficult for me to drink without getting drunk. When you drink the right amount, it doesn't distort your perceptions but does lower your inhibitions. I guess what I learned was that like most things, the truth lies in the middle. Alcohol can be bad. But it also can be good. It is all how you use and enjoy it. Until last year, I also had never tried a drug of any kind. Nada. Never. Then I started reading a few book by an author I truly respect and admire. Sam Harris. He spoke incredibly about his experiences with MDMA (molly), LSD and mushrooms. How his experiences with these substances permanently expanded his consciousness. Like testosterone they are not physically addictive. There are some greater risks since they are not regulated like legal testosterone is. But there are some steps you can take to ensure what you are getting is pure and safe. I have tried mushrooms and MDMA so far and my experiences were fantastic. My feelings about how to generate a deep connection with others has expanded and my sense of self has widened. I have the LSD and will be trying that soon when I find the right person to experience it with. Anyway, since I did it in reverse, I didn't in any way hinder my ability to make connections with people, develop socials skills, etc. and now I can enjoy life straight or "enhanced." Sometime enhanced is better and totally worth it. In general I agree with BD. Alcohol for many, many people is a destructive force. My only real issue with alcohol is from a health and fitness view. It is empty calories and isn't doing your liver any favors. Again, since I started so late these are lesser issues for me. Just another perspective to consider.
Kurt 2015-10-17 12:52:25
I have used alcohol and many other drugs recreationally throughout my life. Although many here rail against using drugs as "a crutch" or to "deal with problems", I learned at a very early age that alcohol, pot, caffeine or any other drug had to be used as an enhancement, when I felt appropriate, for an already good mood or experience. For me, drinking or doing drugs when my mood or personal situation is not optimal results in making everything much worse (and to BD's fear definitely 'out of control'), so I only consider the use of drugs when I am feeling healthy, happy and in a situation that I feel is controlled enough to be able to relax and enjoy the experience. Also, I am fortunate to have extremely low addiction potential; although in my youth I did binge on alcohol and some other drugs I never became addicted. Whether drugs or food I can binge heavily on what I desire but once I've had enough I can walk away without looking back and have done so with many foods and drugs. Alcohol long ago ceased to be enjoyable for me in any large amount and I now only consume small amounts and usually as an enhancement to a meal (I love good wine and craft beers for the taste and the way they compliment a good meal). I think cannabis is a much more friendly drug for the body and mind, and research is showing that it is indeed a far better option for one's health than alcohol. The enhancement of sexual experience one can get from cannabis is something that is not to be missed in my opinion, especially for us 'pleasure of sex' guys. There is nothing quite like the enhanced sensations and diminished refractory period combined with the euphoric release of raw animal lust that a good cannabis high can provide. Combine this with a sexually confident girl and some role-playing sex games and I will be wildly horny and fucking all night, and sore and exhausted the next morning (my dick and my abs primarily). Just make sure she gets plenty of lube! (If you haven't tried it, virgin coconut oil. oh man that stuff is miraculous) But the one thing that even you, BD, Mr. Self-Control freak, should definitely make sure you experience is psilocybin mushrooms. Please hear me out on this! Although it may have the potential to give you a very 'out-of-control' feeling when using it I think you are missing out on too much of life if you don't try it. I strongly recommend you to do a little investigation on this one BD and plan a mushroom trip for yourself (perhaps along with a close friend or beloved woman). The psilocybin experience, done properly, can be one of the (if not THE) most profound and life-changing spiritual experiences of your life. You really can learn new things about yourself, see the world in a different way, and make lasting and positive changes to your outlook on life and your understanding of your relation to the people and world around you. There is nothing addictive about psilocybin and you really only need to do it once. As someone who values happiness and the full enjoyment of life I encourage you to indulge in perhaps the only type of drug that can actually change your life and make you a happier, more fulfilled human, with only one dose. If you can do this with a woman you truly love, I assure you that having sex with her during this experience will be not only amazing, but a powerful and spiritual bonding experience unlike anything you have experienced.
Gluteus_Maximus 2015-10-17 14:30:32
As for someone who has taken LSD a dozen times, mushroom six times, DMT once, ecstasy twice, smoked/consumed (but later just vaped) weed countless countless countless times, and drank alcohol... I look back now having been completely cold turkey for a long long time, and I'm often like "what was the point?" They were nice, and I've learned a lot, but I've also learned A LOT being off of them doing other things, staying sober. I've realized they're just tools. It depends on how you use them. But they're not necessary. In fact, psychedelics actually made me more, uhh, "sensitive." But naturally, I've found myself having to "undo" all that "sensitive" stuff. In hindsight, I think I'd be better off and far ahead had I not taken any. I'm also including never smoked or drank either. But people who will need to use them will use them. People who don't won't.
Dawson Stone 2015-10-17 14:40:31
@Gluteus_Maximus Would you say you learned anything on MDMA, mushrooms or LSD that you couldn't learn any other way? At least with regard to mushrooms and MDMA I can say I learned things I was unable to grasp in the first 48 years of my life being totally "straight." @Kurt Amen brother. An AMAZING experience.
Gluteus_Maximus 2015-10-17 15:04:12
@Dawson Stone The biggest thing I learned from taking them was that I don't need them. Because taking them was part of my "journey" it was necessary, otherwise I would've have taken them. That sounds very basic, but for me that's profound. (Was there any other way I could have learned that? It's already been done. But the fact other people lead admirable lives being sober is proof that I didn't "need" to.) And there's the thing. You get realizations, epiphanies all the time, even when you're walking down the street. You just don't always have a substance that greatly intensifies your very experience of having said realizations and epiphanies, or experiences, SO you don't always think much or anything of them. BUT that doesn't make any of them lesser just because. Just because you may have the intensity that taking psychedelics brings to whatever experience you are having, DOES NOT make any other experiences lesser, IN ANY WAY. (Eat a BOMB steak high, and eat a BOMB steak sober, and they're just different. The steak is BOMB either way. Eating steak high is almost like eating anything when you're STARVING.) Meaning, psychedelics can offer you the opportunity to learn to appreciate every single experience that you do have, by showing you both ends of the spectrum of high and low. But like I said, if you just know how to appreciate your life, the process of it, both good and bad, then you're good. There's no need for it. And that's what I'm saying. But you can always go into "what if?" "what if?" "what if?" "I won't know if I don't take it." Which is why I said the people who need to take it will take it. Those that don't won't. If someone is really curious enough to trip out. Go ahead. Learn what you need to learn. To me, it's similar to the CHOICE of going to college, or school in general. You don't need it.
Yonatan 2015-10-18 00:37:50
Black Dragon, I have a very good bottle of Glenlivet Nadurra 16 years I like to share with you. Perhaps, I can entice you to change your mind 😀 Hey, I respect somebody who isn't taken to drunkenness or doesn't drink. I think to say merely "drinking" is societal programming or brainwashing, etc is going a little far. It's like saying eating foods too rich in Omega 6, GMOs or overly refined carbs and processed sugars is societal programming. I mean many people can use food as a drug and look at all the obese and overweight people. As well, look at the large amount of people suffering from heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc which can be attributed to the poor food choices they have. I am a connoisseur of fine liquors and do enjoy the occasional beer or nice glass of wine with a meal. That hardly qualifies me as a drunk or raving alcoholic or programmed. I cannot remember the last time I was drunk. Having 3 or 4 shots of fine whiskey in a week does not obscure judgment or make you dependent on it. No more than thinking you need to have sex 16 times a week :D. Seriously, it's just something you enjoy. Now, if a person has 4 shots a night then the person is drinking for intoxication. Most people (excluding the very wealthy) who pay $70-$100 for bottle of scotch are not doing so for a quick and easy fix. You can buy 4-5 bottles of Jack Daniels for that price. Then again, if you want to talk about addictions, thinking you constantly need to have sex can be considered by some an addiction and a sign of desperation. If you need an outside substance or influence to appease any type of craving, some can argue you have a physical dependence on it. I say everything in moderation and don't overdo anything or be addicted to anything. A side note, off the subject, but you say you are against "organized" religion, which as you being an "atheist/agnostic" probably means any religion with a name on it. You claim this is societal programming. The irony of this is that a good number of my relatives lived in the Soviet Union where they were programmed to hate religion and would be arrested and killed if they were caught practicing their religion, praying or even believing in G-d at all. If you want to talk about societal programming and RIGID, REPRESSED and almost robotic minded people, just look at those who came out of Soviet Russia. These people lived in constant fear of going against the myriad of decrees and programming enforced by their leaders, which included believing in religion. I personally, think if a person believes in G-d and is a Christian, Jew, Hindu and they believe it based on their own accord, they have accepted it. The same can be said about your own experiences and the many teachings you have in your blogs and books. People teach based on experience and have a sense of what is right or wrong. You have done some of your own programming, Black Dragon, which I can respect to a degree. For example, you have YELLED at people who have vowed monogamy to a woman or if a woman is holding back sex. You have basically PROGRAMMED something into them. I am not saying all programming is bad, but human beings are organic computers who process living algorithms. We do accept instructions and process whether or not to accept or reject them. I don't want to get too deep here. P.S. Just climbed Mount Pilchuck here in Washington yesterday and my body is toast.. Great way to get nice and toned and see some amazing views. When I was hiking up to the top, I bumped into a very hot blonde and Asian girl wearing those notorious tight yoga pants. What is it with Pac NW women and these tight yoga pants? 😛 I wish I had your women acquisition skills; although, meeting women on mountain trails is very awkward and I didn't want to appear "CREEPY". The blonde seem to strike up conversation with me. At the top she wanted me to take pic of her and her friend, which I did. I thought to myself on the trail, what would Black Dragon do if he met a very sexy young 20 something blonde and Asian duo and was hiking up the trail with them? 😀 .. Oh yeah, I need a shot of scotch 😛 Actually, I think I will just have it tomorrow, too damn tired tonight.
SM 2015-10-18 05:05:02
When I was much younger and full of social anxiety, alcohol was a great shortcut to developing social skills as a hardcore introvert. I went from being unable to hold a basic 1 minute conversation to being the life of the party and making several new friends overnight in college since the alcohol "unlocked" my hidden social skills. Sometimes if I'd remember to, I'd write up drunken notes and advice for myself to read the next day when I was sober. It didn't take long for my sober self to have the same social skills as my drunk self, thanks to the alcohol proving to me what I was really capable of.
Blackdragon 2015-10-18 11:23:18
I think to say merely “drinking” is societal programming or brainwashing, etc is going a little far.No it's not. It's Societal Programming. Note when I (and others commenting here) have observed that when you don't drink in a social setting, it actually makes others uncomfortable. That's classic SP.
It’s like saying eating foods too rich in Omega 6, GMOs or overly refined carbs and processed sugars is societal programming.Yeah! That's societal programming too! Just because a thing feels good doesn't mean it can't be SP.
I mean many people can use food as a drug and look at all the obese and overweight people.Correct, obese people in the US. Other countries, particularly in Asia, don't have this problem. Why? Because of American cultural SP. You're proving my point for me.
I am a connoisseur of fine liquors and do enjoy the occasional beer or nice glass of wine with a meal. That hardly qualifies me as a drunk or raving alcoholic or programmed.It doesn't qualify you as a drunk. It does qualify you as programmed. What if you were raised in the Muslim middle east and still lived there? Would you be a wine connoisseur then?
Then again, if you want to talk about addictions, thinking you constantly need to have sex can be considered by some an addiction and a sign of desperation.Utterly wrong. I already have an article written that is going up here on Thursday on exactly that topic, how the term "sexual addition" is utter bullshit. Read it on Thursday.
If you need an outside substance or influence to appease any type of craving, some can argue you have a physical dependence on it.Correct, but that doesn't mean SP isn't involved. I'll say it again: just because a thing feels good doesn't mean it can't be SP. You seem to think that anything that naturally feels pleasurable can't be related to SP. Incorrect. Yes my friend, your love of wine means you are societally programmed. No need to get defensive about it. I'm societally programmed too. My love of action movies and of mass quantities high glycemic carbs are because of my uniquely American societal programming. I didn't come out of my mother's womb craving massive amounts of these things. I was programmed into liking them over a period of many years from many cultural sources. As long as you mitigate your harmless SP (as opposed to harmful SP) with some discipline, that's okay, which I think is the point you're trying to make. But saying you're not programmed at all because you love wine is incorrect.
For example, you have YELLED at people who have vowed monogamy to a woman or if a woman is holding back sex. You have basically PROGRAMMED something into them.One guy yelling at you for 30 seconds isn't societal programming. SP is a massive, non-stop barrage of messaging from mainstream or near-mainstream sources. One little guy (me) on one little blog (this one) is not societal programming. I don't have the power or the audience to engage in societal programming to the masses, and never will. At best I will influence 1% of 1% of 1% of society, maybe. The other 99.9999% of SP will be encouraging monogamy. There is no comparison and no contest. I will not "win" regardless of my accurate points. SP is too strong. This is exactly why I don't waste any of my time trying to "save society" or any of that stuff. But that's a topic for another time.
Duke 2015-10-19 11:55:43
I can definitely relate to this post. I simultaneously get and don't get why you don't drink. I have a similar if not the same personality as you. I got tested as INTJ but I have my doubts as to the accuracy of that test. What I don't get is how you can tolerate most women (or most people) sober; some can be really annoying. Sober, I am an insufferable kill joy, as I have the habit of deconstructing and questioning every thing I observe. I find that drinking relaxes me to where I am okay with literally anything that happens, and I am rest assured that I will not do anything even remotely resembling something negative with regards to interacting with women. It helps that I know how to reach a state that keeps me buzzed but not drunk. So what is your secret if you don't mind me asking? How can you maintain a solid and yet fun frame while being a rational person?
Blackdragon 2015-10-19 13:21:05
What I don’t get is how you can tolerate most women (or most people) sober; some can be really annoying. Sober, I am an insufferable kill joy...So what is your secret if you don’t mind me asking? How can you maintain a solid and yet fun frame while being a rational person?Being a killjoy isn't an INTJ trait. That's an uptight trait or, more likely, an over-intellectual trait. I'm a smart, complex, well-read, high-IQ guy. Yet I can thoroughly enjoy stupid stuff (as my taste in movies may indicate). A lot of smarter guys can't do this. If they start talking to someone stupid, or see something stupid, they get irritated fast. I don't have that problem, at least not any more (when I was a young man I did). Some of this is my personality, and some of this is from practice (so I can be happy more often). It's why I can be on a first date with a dingy, no-nothing 20 year-old and be perfectly okay with it. It's why one of my all-time favorite TV shows is Beavis and Butthead. It's why my dad can tell a very stupid fart joke and I'll laugh (for real). I talk in my book about having the minimum number of mental things in life that piss you off. Start working on that. We live in a very stupid world. If you get irritated by anything stupid, you'll never be happy. That means if you want happiness, you'll have to learn to go with the flow and relax. If you're living Alpha Male 2.0, stupid stuff doesn't matter to your life anyway.
Lovergirl 2015-10-19 21:04:31
I went almost 15 years without any alcohol whatsoever, for religious reasons, so I was eager to have a drink or two and actually feel like an adult as I was getting divorced. Still, I pretty much keep it at 2-3 drinks tops and don't get beyond buzzed the majority of the time. I did a couple of times in the past 5 years but probably won't again. I also don't drink more than maybe once or twice a month. I used to be scared of becoming an alcoholic because so many of my family members have drug addiction or alcohol issues. Yet, I really don't struggle with that at all. The benefit of drinking, for me, is just the letting go of inhibitions for a bit. It's fun. Refusing to do it ever just makes a person seem kind of uptight.
Kryptokate 2015-10-19 21:44:24
OK, I'll take the strong position against you on this one. 1. Surely you realize that your opinion on this, as someone who has never been drunk, can simply not be weighted the same as someone who has. You simply don't know what you're talking about. You know what it "looks like" and you think it looks stupid. I used to think the same thing. That's why I didn't drink for years after all my friends in high school and college did. Because they "looked" stupid and idiotic. You know what else looks stupid and idiotic? Your face when you have an orgasm. And you saying you're sure you will "hate" being drunk is about as hilarious as someone who has never had an orgasm saying they're sure they'll "hate" it. 2. I would actually like to bet you a good sum of money that you will NOT hate getting drunk and will find it extremely fun and pleasurable. Seriously. I would put good money on this, to watch you take a few shots, and then see how big the smile on your face is. I would eat my fucking hat if you got drunk and said anything other than that you were feeling really damn happy and having a great time once you're drunk. 3. People have problems with everything. Food, the internet, drugs. Hell, I have an addiction to arguing with people I don't know over the internet, apparently. 😉 The vast majority of adults drink and are not alcoholics. People know they're going to get hungover. And you know why they do it anyway? BECAUSE IT'S WORTH IT. Even if you could somehow make it so that people had to "pay up front" by getting the hangover before getting drunk, many people would still make this choice, now and then, because it's worth it to have a really fun crazy night. 4. Look at the responses to this thread...who comes off like an uptight, people-hating, anti-social judgmental prig and who comes off like a pretty cool dude who would be fun to hang out with? Do they say they drink or don't drink? Ahem. Half the anti-alcohol arguments on here seem to reflect resentment at the social, popular drinkers for having too much fun and thereby apparently "trying to prove they're cool." Lol. This is the type of stupid argument adults try to make to teenagers to get them not to have sex...sure, no one is doing it because it's actually really fucking fun, they're just trying to be cool. Ha! This is actually funny. 5. The reason why some people develop an alcohol addiction is precisely because social drinking is so rewarding...your brain tells you to keep doing that super fun thing that made you feel really happy and good. That's all any addiction is -- your brain trying to replicate a rewarding experience. Most people are smart enough to know when it is appropriate and when it is not, and it doesn't cause a problem. For some people it will. All extremely rewarding experiences pose the risk of causing addiction. So sure, you have to be careful and make sure to manage risk. With your personality this does not seem like a big concern. 6. Your arguments about being an ultra-rational control freak don't hold up because that is exactly the type of person that is generally fine with alcohol and actually improved by it. The people who shouldn't drink are the people who already lack self-control and are impulsive sober. Ultra cerebral rational control freak types are the ones who are BETTER when they drink. I am the perfect example of this. Literally everyone likes me way better when I'm drinking, and that's because alcohol makes me like other people more. It helps me let down my guard, chill out, stop analyzing everything to the nth degree, and stop worrying about breaking social rules. I am so naturally hyper-aware and over-analytical that a dose of something to lower my inhibitions and turn off the constantly revving motor in my mind is a good thing. Some people barely turn their minds on in the first place, and alcohol will just make them sloppy and annoying. But INTJs and INTPs are often exactly the type whose personalities that are most improved by alcohol. 7. I actually believe you when you say you're a fun, social, uninhibited guy without alcohol. However, that makes you an extreme outlier (no surprise). Out of the hundreds of people I have known in my life, I can think of *exactly two* who truly live up to the standard of fun while sober that drinking people set. It is vanishingly rare. Again, I think you are speaking out of ignorance here. If you're fun and awesome sober you'd probably really be the life of the party and destroy (in a good way) social situations while drinking. Your standard of fun is just not as high as someone who drinks socially. It's all relative. 8. You are missing out on a whole category of experiences that you will simply never have without alcohol and I don't care how naturally fun and outgoing you are. Again this is not something I can explain to you from the "outside". But how often do you and your friends literally roll on the floor with tears rolling down your face because you are laughing so hard? How often do you end up hugging your male friends and telling them you love them without the slightest awkwardness or discomfort because you truly just absolutely fucking love them in the moment? How often do you put your arms around people and all sing at the top of your lungs together out of sheer joy? How many good stories do you have that ended up with a wild all-nighter that you and your friends retell and relive over and over for decades because it was just so much fun and so funny and so crazy and brought you all so much closer? Not as many as me. 🙂 You know what comedies make people smile and laugh and bring joy to their face? Old School. Animal House. The Hangover. You know what comedy has never been made? Sober Guy Who Goes to Bed Early. 9. You say that tons of guys have missed out on getting laid because they were too drunk and alcohol screwed it up for them. That is surely true. I also guarantee that guys HAVE gotten laid because of alcohol, when they would've missed out sober, about 100 times as often. You know the quickest and easiest way to get an introverted, socially awkward, ultra-frustrated virgin to get laid? Get him to start drinking. I really doubt there is even such thing as a long-term incel who drinks socially on a regular basis. 10. Civilization literally would not exist without alcohol. It's the the social lubricant that makes people like each other enough to cooperate and build societies. It bonds men enough to fight and go to war for non-relatives. It enboldens non-violent beta males to hit on women and get laid. It forms and cements friendships. It soothes tensions and wounds. Alcohol has gone hand in hand with every civilization and without it we would all still be living like animals. I don't know how anti-alcoholism became associated with religion because clearly alcohol is so important that one of the tiny handful of miracles that Jesus performed was making sure there was booze at a wedding party. Not that I believe in Jesus, but honestly, anyone who knows how to party knows that a wedding, networking event, or really any social event consisting of a large group of people over the age of puberty is generally a painful experience until you add alcohol, and suddenly it's a lot of damn fun. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/opinion/sunday/how-beer-gave-us-civilization.html 11. The reason people don't "trust" those who don't drink and get uptight about it is because alcohol is THE number one pro-social tool humans have at their disposal. More than coming together to celebrate around food, more than music, more than anything else it is alcohol. It is fundamentally a pro-social tool, and someone who doesn't drink is basically telegraphing that they might be anti-social and thus should not be trusted. Alcohol is NOT appropriate for difficult mental tasks, work, doing your tax returns, etc. What it IS good for is bonding people together and increasing their sociability. Alcohol makes people sing, it makes them dance, it makes them laugh and tell funnier jokes, it makes them kiss and have sex and hug and tell each other they love each other. Christ, how terrible!! We can't have that, can we!?! It generally makes people nicer. The tiny, tiny majority of "angry drunks" are people who deep down are enormous assholes anyway, and alcohol just lets their guard down enough to show what huge assholes they really are. Which isn't a bad thing, because it's better for people to know. It shows people's true personality. 12. Sure, you can learn to become more social, kinder, funnier, more fun, and more enjoyable to be around without using alcohol as a "crutch." You could, but why would you? It won't be as effective and will take about 20 times more work. I thought you were into efficiency... In sum, I leave you with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlti3mjaXV0 I also challenge you on what you wrote...go out with friends who are drinking and have 5 drinks over the course of a few hours. Take some video of the results and we'll see whether you hate it or whether you have a huge smile on your face. Even if you had money riding on this bet -- and I know how much you can't stand wasting money -- I would still win. 🙂
tonystark 2015-10-20 03:33:03
Then again, if you want to talk about addictions, thinking you constantly need to have sex can be considered by some an addictionANYTHING can be an addiction. Eating wood chips (if that's your thing) can be. By a general definition: It's as long as it's harmful to one's health and/or interferes with day-to-day functioning/responsibilities. If I were constantly skipping work to go fuck, then yeah, that would be an addiction. Seeing FB's during the week and having an mLTR come over on the weekend; having lots of sex (while taking proper precautions) while still getting what needs to be done done to survive, thrive, and self-actualize, is not. There's a massive difference between the two. BD - What I have a feeling your post is going to be about is society's "definition" of sex addiction. Which we all know society's "definition" of anything is bullshit. So yeah, you'd totally be right. Also, Kate's got some real points up there. I've been keeping #1 to myself, but it's the first thing I thought when I saw this post. #12 though - is because you need those skills while sober. The x20 extra work becomes worth it. You won't be able to drink or be drunk all the time. If you only have those skills while in that state, you'll be screwed if you need them out of it. I've done a lot of night game, and it's become difficult for me to be as outgoing and leading in such a setting without alcohol.
"How many good stories do you have that ended up with a wild all-nighter that you and your friends retell and relive over and over for decades because it was just so much fun and so funny and so crazy and brought you all so much closer?"#8 is the biggest and best reason. A metric ton of the crazy, amazing, hilarious stories that I write about, have been from memories like these. They simply would have not happened if inhibitions weren't lowered. As far as life experiences, these are some of the fondest. It is a feeling unto itself. What I think is you'll enjoy it when you do. Especially out with some close friends. I honestly can't see you sitting around being buzzed going, "this sucks."
Kryptokate 2015-10-20 08:07:36
@ TonyStark I agree you need social skills sober. Though I've found alcohol actually helps with that because you find out that people are actually nice and will accept you when you're not so controlled and upright, that people like seeing the "real" you. I am much more socially adept than I used to be, both sober and drinking, because of my experiences being drunk. Still, I'll never be quite as fearless, sparkling, and funny sober as I can achieve while drinking. The great stories is the biggest reason. I agree that many of my best, funniest, most memorable stories from my life are from crazy nights out drinking. The pleasure extends far beyond the actual time you're drunk because you and your friends can relive and relaugh while reminiscing for years. In fact, the day-after highlight reel and telling stories is almost as fun as the actual night out....
Blackdragon 2015-10-20 18:26:40
I would actually like to bet you a good sum of money that you will NOT hate getting drunk and will find it extremely fun and pleasurable.It's possible, sure. When I do it, I'll let you guys know.
People know they’re going to get hungover. And you know why they do it anyway? BECAUSE IT’S WORTH IT.Then you're saying getting drunk would make me happier than literally anything else I do now to be happy (including having amazing sex), since all of those things have zero side negative effects.
who comes off like an uptight, people-hating, anti-social judgmental prig and who comes off like a pretty cool dude who would be fun to hang out with?Don't care.
I actually believe you when you say you’re a fun, social, uninhibited guy without alcohol. However, that makes you an extreme outlier (no surprise)Entirely possible.
You are missing out on a whole category of experiences that you will simply never have without alcohol and I don’t care how naturally fun and outgoing you are. Again this is not something I can explain to you from the “outside”. But how often do you and your friends literally roll on the floor with tears rolling down your face because you are laughing so hard?1. Yes, I've done that, many times. Without alcohol. 2. I'm an introvert. I have no need to experience things like that on a regular basis and can still maintain top levels of happiness without those things. More extroverted people might need those things; I don't.
I also guarantee that guys HAVE gotten laid because of alcohol, when they would’ve missed out sober, about 100 times as often.I addressed that. Those guys needed the alcohol to succeed because they hadn't yet built up the social skills or the confidence to do it sober.
Civilization literally would not exist without alcoholThat might be true but I'm not arguing against civilization's use of alcohol. I could care less about civilization, as usual.
The reason people don’t “trust” those who don’t drink and get uptight about it is because alcohol is THE number one pro-social tool humans have at their disposal.NO. They're uncomfortable because A) they (most people) don't have the outcome independence to let loose without alcohol and B) Societal Programming. As I said in the article, I'm not going to change anyone's mind here, and I do stipulate that alcohol makes people happy (with a lot of negative side effects I don't have to worry about).
Buzz 2015-10-21 00:48:59
Gluteus_Maximus 2015-10-21 21:43:32
Kryptokate seems like the exact kind of person I'm talking about LOL.
Still, I’ll never be quite as fearless, sparkling, and funny sober as I can achieve while drinking.This gave me those disgusted chills similar to watching a very cliched love scene in a movie (speaking of which I just saw Pixel an hour ago). The thought of needing something so fleeting as alcohol is yuck.
Though I’ve found alcohol actually helps with that because you find out that people are actually nice and will accept you when you’re not so controlled and upright, that people like seeing the “real” you.People have a "default" domain of behavior. By themselves, or on their own, people will act in their own individual way. THAT is closer to the "real" them. Encouraging others that they need something (the likes of which is actually toxic to the body) in order to be accepted is LOL. Unbeknownst to many, this is part of the cycle that drives people to continuously have lower self-esteem. They keep partaking in activities that they feel they have to, because they're indirectly pressured into thinking who they really are cannot be accepted. Even the "bad" side to them. For example, from another quote from Kryptokate:
4. Look at the responses to this thread…who comes off like an uptight, people-hating, anti-social judgmental prig and who comes off like a pretty cool dude who would be fun to hang out with? Do they say they drink or don’t drink? Ahem. Half the anti-alcohol arguments on here seem to reflect resentment at the social, popular drinkers for having too much fun and thereby apparently “trying to prove they’re cool.”There is nothing wrong with coming off like an "uptight, people-hating, anti-social judgmental prig." After all, you're doing the same exact thing. You're exhibiting judgmentalness against people being judgmental. Judging is part of life. You're shaming a natural behavior. People who are "cool" and people who are "uncool" means a lack of compatibility is all. Not honoring that incompatibility is muy no bueno.
8. You are missing out on a whole category of experiences that you will simply never have without alcohol and I don’t care how naturally fun and outgoing you are.For something that looks REALLY fun to someone, they won't need much convincing, if any. I enjoy sculpting. My life naturally led me towards it. Saw a video and BOOM! incorporated it strongly into my life. Someone else might find it's boring as fuck. Who gives a shit. I feel rewarded when I sculpt or create something beautiful or when I plow through the period of shittyness and turn it into gold. Even though it's not flashy or doesn't bring about a "crazy" story. Or even the fact it's more of a solitary activity. I have a peace of mind. This is just an example. But someone on the outside might do the same thing we're all doing: "Wow, that's so boring. Gluteus_Maximus is so fucking boring. Gawwd, I don't want any of that peaceful shit. I just wanna get TURNT UP BABY!! Gluteus_Maximus is MISSING OUT!"
It is fundamentally a pro-social tool, and someone who doesn’t drink is basically telegraphing that they might be anti-social and thus should not be trusted.People like you and I wouldn't hang out in the first place. AND people like us SHOULDN'T hang out together. I'd more likely place my trust in someone who does everything sober because well... they're sober LOL. Someone who refuses peer-pressure I can trust FAR MORE to stick to their own principles than another who doesn't.
Gluteus_Maximus 2015-10-21 22:07:51
Also, just because I can trust someone more, doesn't even mean we have to spend a lot of time together or even be friends. They can just be someone who I shared a good moment with, or several good moments with. A lot of people make the mistake of trying to push it longer than it was meant to be.
Jack Outside the Box 2015-10-22 05:49:15
it makes them kiss and have sex and hug and tell each other they love each other. You know the quickest and easiest way to get an introverted, socially awkward, ultra-frustrated virgin to get laid? Get him to start drinking. I really doubt there is even such thing as a long-term incel who drinks socially on a regular basis.Kryptokate: You do know that you are setting these guys up for a rape charge, right? With the laws the way they are today thanks to feminist man-haters, alcohol and your sex life cannot mix (if you're a man). Have sex with a woman with even a single drop of alcohol (or any other intoxicant) in her system, and she can accuse you of rape any time she wants and, legally speaking, it will be true. That's why I never drink when there is any possibility of sex involved. I'd rather stay out of prison and off the sex offenders list.
jacare 2015-10-22 14:42:24
I used to drink because I love the flavor of craft beer. It is really delicious to me. And I liked the buzz. But does beer make you thin, rich, smart, and sexy? Here's the thing, there are small things we all can do which gives us a huge advantage, which in turn gives us a healthier, happier, easier life than average. Be in remarkable physical condition. Thin and muscular. Eat right, don't drink, don't smoke. Keep your calories under 2000/day. Most dudes have guts, and do not have strength. Dress well - wear stylish clothes that fit well. Wear nice shoes. Never leave the house unless you are looking good. If you follow step one, you can look great in a Vneck Tshirt and jeans. Most guys dress like shit, why? Make money. Start a business. It can be a side internet business. Learn to interact with women properly. Always be in your masculine energy. Continually learn. We now have YouTube, that will tell you all you need to know about diet, excercise, style, women, business. And there is endless information.
TKORAR 2015-10-23 18:44:48
Yessss. Finally. Kindred spirits, no pun intended. This has been an issue for me & the wife since we met. Buffalo is the preverbal "Drinking town with a sports problem" & because of the blue collar mentality, the bars are still open until 4am here. We are surrounded by people with drinking problems. My wife gets really bad migraines if she drinks & it makes her really sick. Myself, I never really grew up around alchohol. Mom & dad had it around for social events, but I never really saw them get 'messed up' or anything so I wasn't raised in a drinking culture. My Uncle was a full blown alchoholic & it was tuff to watch a loved one drink & smoke himself into the grave. That was really hard on my mom, my aunt, & my grandma. They had a lot of guilt about not being able to help him, but my dad's words to them still ring true, I still remember him saying "you can't help someone that won't help themselves". That ordeal left a big impression on me & I've stayed clean & sober all my life. When I went to an interview for an FBI fleet mechanic job, the interviewer didn't even believe me when being questioned about substance abuse, I told her I'd never been drunk, never taken illicit drugs of any kind, & never even smoked a cigarette. I always get a lot of pressure about it & I hate that. I'm 42, not 22. Like everyone says, it's been programmed into us that drinking is normal & people that don't imbibe are made to feel socially outcast. It's subtle & insidious, but it creeps in there & you notice that you don't get invited out much because they all feel that your lifestyle choices are a buzzkill & you're no fun. It happens with familiy & friends. We deal with it by limiting our exposure to those types of people & removing them from our social circles (which are really down to just a few close friends & relatives now, but I like it that way). In New York State, our firearms laws are very restrictive. It took me a year & half to get my pistol permit. Once I got it, I took a course about gun laws & your rights. A cop, a lawyer, & a retired judge gave the class & they all mentioned the same point. They basically said to us: "We don't need to preach lifestyle choices to anyone in this room because just to get here, we know you're all good, upstanding citizens with no prior history of mental health problems, or arrests, or warrants or whatever or you would never have got your gun, but with that said, if your previous behavior was an 8 out of 10, now it needs to be an 11. You already know you can't get yourself into trouble, but from now on, you also shouldn't put yourself in a potential situation that could bring trouble to you." As an example, they brought up your typical bar situation. Drinks flow, someone bumps into someone else, words are exchanged, & punches fly. Right there, you could be arrested & lose you permit in a heartbeat. Now after a year & half, 3 different instruction courses, all the jumping through hoops, the money, & everything else I put up with, why in the hell would I want to risk it all with a night of drinking, or even being around drunks that could draw me into a bad situation? After you achive something like this, you really re-evaluate your lifestyle choices & things take on a whole new perspective for you. My next big problem is trying to get Jr to stay on the right path & keeping a 17 year old out of that kind of trouble is really hard & very stressful but I do my best.
riaz 2015-11-13 02:41:19
your fear it reduces control though it taken within body limit while enjoying a one of oldest enjoyments of human history or my image shattered all is well in love and war of livelihood while narrating image .
Felix 2016-02-07 07:41:42
INTJ also. And I thought I was odd in that I only wanted power over myself and could care less what happens to other people because they have the ability to do whatever they want. If other people want to kill themselves. I would try and talk friends out of it but in the end it is your life and your choice. I always end up with this horrified look like I should do everything I can, including physically restraining them which I think is crazy. It is your choice how you live your life or not. My friends tell me that I should be active in politics and change things. I tell them they are wasting their time. The system is set and it is virtually impossible to change it without tearing down the system first. Voting people out does absolutely nothing. The ones voted in just do the same thing. I tell people if it gets intolerable, I will just move. They look at me like I am crazy. By the way, here's an opinion of a biochemist. Alcohol is used in biology and biochemistry labs worldwide to wipe down lab bench tops because it is a POISON. You body has a way to neutralize that poison but it is still a poison. The first step is converting that poison to acetyl-aldehyde. If you're thinking that that sounds an awful lot like formaldehyde, the stuff they preserve dead tissue in, you're right. It's an analogous molecule. Guess what drinking formaldehyde does to you? The same thing as drinking alcohol. Your body has the capability to repair MOST of the damage caused by alcohol but all damage is cumulative. It also literally kills brain cells. You have a ton of brain cells so you don't notice the function decrease but it all adds up. At some point you cross a red line and you crash. Your body's ability to repair suddenly drops off and you have physical and mental health problems. Serious problems that requires more drugs and changes to your lifestyle and ability to enjoy any kind of physical life. I'm always amazed at how casually people will take in huge amounts of poison into their body just because it's socially acceptable. Obviously I don't drink but will order one if it makes customers or clients uncomfortable but will also only drink a sip or two.
dingtwist 2016-10-21 06:28:03
@kryptokate - this made me laugh out loud, pretty hard, for about 20 seconds, which is rare while reading online. just wanted to give a quick thanks. "You know what comedy has never been made? Sober Guy Who Goes to Bed Early."
thescalpmaster 2016-10-22 18:13:41
I agree. Alcohol and other drugs are bad for you. END OF STORY. I am a rational person, just like you and I've also been really,really,really high numerous times before quitting for life so I know what I am talking about . In fact, try getting really high yourself and I'm pretty sure you will reach the same conclusion. Any drug that's addictive FUCKS UP your dopamine system. You will find it harder to stay motivated. Your dopamine boost after achieving a goal will be low. Working towards your goals will not make you happy and satisfied. Then your body will start craving things to fill that dopamine void in your system. But, why do people(and society at large) praise alcohol? Why do people try to rationalize drinking even though it's bullshit? Why does everyone feel like they couldn't live without them? Something called 'confirmation bias' answers their questions. All of the drugs offer very less compared to the sacrifices you make regarding your health and dopamine but people seems to be 'affected' by confirmation bias and remember either the good stuff or bad stuff when the subject of drugs is raised. They seem to ignore the other side and the low return because of this bias. A smart person knows this. There are three kinds of people who don't get high on drugs. 1) Pussies - really scared about drinking/smoking etc. In most cases, grew up watching alcoholics/smokers and programmed themselves to avoid it. People who are smarter learn to rationalize their decisions for avoiding them. You belong in this category BD. 2) Rehab cycle- consumes too much drugs and quit for some time , eventually ends up abusing them after being sober for days/months/years. These people are too dumb enough to realize that they're fighting an uphill battle. In the long run, these men are slaves to whatever they abuse. 3) Active avoidants: People who got really high, explored the depths of drugs and gave up. No, it's not because of rationalizing their thoughts that drugs are unhealthy/bad but it's due to the fact that you don't really need them to live a happy life. You get really high to stay happy/euphoric/creative for a temporary period but you sacrifice your health and your dopamine system. It's a diminishing return. You will eventually develop a tolerance and will need a lot to stay high which is a diminishing return considering the fact that sacrifices you need to make keeps getting higher and higher. I agree that drugs make you happy but is it worth sacrificing too much for too little? You're basically sacrificing long term health for short term reward. So, do you really need drugs? You be the judge. This is the kind of man you must aim to be. Your rationalizing doesn't make sense. I believe that getting high is an experience and should be experienced by everyone because it is something unique. Don't be a retard and get addicted(chasing highs). Get FUCKING HIGH for a couple of months when you're completely free. Experiment everything. Learn about them and how each one affects your body. Then, stop consuming drugs when you realize that risk/reward ratio is too high and keeps getting higher. Don't bullshit me with your rationalizing thoughts. An intelligent man is driven by curiosity to explore. Since, you're a smart guy and haven't dared to explore the depths, I have come to a logical conclusion that you're a pussy and rationalizing your thoughts for avoiding drugs.
buzz 2016-10-22 20:55:02
4. People that tried it and learned to enjoy it in moderation.
anon dont drink 2016-10-24 15:03:10
Don't drink. Due to my relatives and genetic make up, it would make me at a higher risk of developing alcoholism. I don't get 'buzzed' after one but I don't want to know how many would take me to become buzzed, and I don't ever want to get that feeling because there might be no turning back. And I have had the 'thoughts' for specifically sake, even though I can count on my fingers how many times I have had any kind of alcohol. I feel 100% that if I began to drink alcohol seriously, and not just a small sip or whatever that I've taken, I would become an alcoholic. Haven't been drunk, and don't want to ever be drunk. I urge many to stay away from alcohol, especially if you have family members with a problem for any kind of substance abuse. Don't drink that stuff...
Jack Outside the Box 2017-11-05 01:10:10
Sideburns, I have a sincere question for you:
Time draw, expense, loss of control, a gamble with possible dire outcomes.Why are you so risk-averse? Why are you trembling at the thought of everything? How can you expect to have an alpha 2.0 sex life with such pussified beta beliefs? Do you get panic attacks every morning before breakfast? Sex can also have dire outcomes. Sleeping with multiple partners can lead to HIV, can't it? So why aren't you celibate? Don't you care about the "dire consequences" of sex?
Sideburns 2017-11-05 01:12:56
Time draw, expense, loss of control, a gamble with possible dire outcomes. But people think it adds value to their lives, are emotionally attached to it, see no alternatives, barely question it, and often do it just to fit in. Like having kids then. Is it fair to put young kids (living in your home) in the same category as your women and business partners? I am sure they can upset you and give you a rough day much more often than anything else. Or at least ruin many of your day-to-day plans.
Jack Outside the Box 2017-11-05 01:22:44
Sideburns, I have a sincere question for you:
Time draw, expense, loss of control, a gamble with possible dire outcomes.Why are you so risk-averse? Why are you trembling at the thought of everything? How can you expect to have an alpha 2.0 sex life with such pussified beta beliefs? Do you get panic attacks every morning before breakfast? Sex can also have dire outcomes. Sleeping with multiple partners can lead to HIV, can’t it? So why aren’t you celibate? Don’t you care about the “dire consequences” of sex?
Sideburns 2017-11-06 04:26:21
@ Jack Outside the Box risk-averse, trembling, and panic attacks only about accidental pregnancy! Massive risk taker when it comes to Sex. Perhaps to the point of foolishness. There is zero credible alternative to sex (bring on the sex robots), there is a direct biological urge unlike procreation which is psycho-cultural and secondary to sex, and it feel amazing almost every time. Much better return on investment I think. I know you get pleasure from making crotch goblins. But seriously can you compare the two things? It's the difference between vasectomy and castration! I could be an addict mind you, so I sympathise with alcoholics. And while most of them try their best not to leave disasters in their wake, so do I, and condom up.
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