31 Oct An Open Invitation To The Alt-Right and Manosphere To Tell Me Where I’m Wrong
As you probably already know, it is my position that the Western world is already screwed and any political or social action is, while emotionally satisfying, not going to save the West from its fate. The only thing that might save the West is if some Elon Musk type invents a technological widget that changes the world into a paradise. Other than that, the West will collapse at some point in the future, and it doesn’t matter who you vote for or what social/political movement you become a part of. Thus, instead of focusing on external, political or societal solutions, you should instead focus your limited time on bettering the lives of yourself and your close loved ones.
-By Caleb Jones
If you want to know when I think the West will collapse, I have no idea. I don’t know that, nor does anyone else.
If you want to know how I think the collapse will occur or what exactly will happen, I don’t know that either, though I have a few strong educated guesses that I describe here if you’re interested.
But today isn’t about me. Today, I’m going to shut up and turn this blog over to you.
If you are part of the activist manosphere or alt-right, and think that voting for certain people, or voting for certain parties, or funding certain groups, or taking part in political or social movements will actually save the West and turn power back over to pro-masculine, right-wing, traditional values, then please leave a comment below, tell me how I’m wrong, and tell me exactly how your idea will work.
There are no rules for the comments you leave on this post (other than the usual Five Simple Rules for this blog, which will be enforced as always), but if you want me to reply to your comment and have a rational discussion about your plan, your comment must include the following three elements:
1. Exactly what your plan entails. How, exactly, will your social / political plan, or movement, or revolution, or whatever, save the West, make women feminine and submissive again, get rid of all those immigrants, return conservatism to its former glory, or whatever else you want it to do. You must be specific. “Voting for Republicans” is not specific. I want your specific plan.
2. How your plan will work in the real world, in the West, in 2016 or later, rather than something that might have worked in 1950, or something that will work in your right-wing fantasies, or something that might work in South America. Tell me exactly how your plan will work in our current big government, politically correct, left-wing, anti-man, corporatist/socialist world completely dominated by politicians and bankers, where the majority of the citizenry are left-wingers and where white men are only 31% of the population (and declining). Just saying “Trump will make America great again” is not specific enough.
3. If your plan is meant to save the West and turn things around, or if your plan is meant to minimize the damage when the collapse occurs. Those are two very different things. I think there is no plan that will save the West (though I promise to keep an open mind for the purpose of this blog post and the comments). However, I am at least mildly interested in any plans that acknowledge the right has lost, the left has won, the collapse is coming no matter what, but if we do X, Y, and Z, we can minimize the damage that is caused to men in Western society (or all of society) when (not if) the collapse occurs. Those kinds of plans might have some merit.
Since I’ve had many of these discussions before, I’ll save you some time and give you a few examples of things that are not specific plans, and examples of comments I will ignore:
“Turn back to God.” (This is not a specific plan.)”Leave the EU!” (Not specific enough. You’ll leave, then what? How will this save the rest of Europe / US / Canada / etc?)
“Vote for Donald Trump and make America great again.” (This is not a specific plan. And if Hillary wins, then what?)
“Kick the Muslims/Mexicans out!” (Not specific enough. How exactly will you do this, based on current fiscal, political, and cultural realities? Give me your specific plan.)
“Get an AR-15 and get ready for the revolution!” (This is not a specific plan.)
One more thing. If you’re a manosphere/alt-right guy, I agree with at least 85% of your political views, if not more. I just think the solution is personal and individual (Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle, nonmonogamy, self-employment, location independent income, maintaining good physical health, eventually moving out of the Western world, etc) and you think the solution is external (voting, political activism, protesting, movements, angrily posting on blogs and social media, etc).We agree on the problem, we only disagree on the solution. I’m actually on your side. Try your best to keep that in mind when you start getting angry, which I know many of you will.
But enough of that. I now officially hand the discussion over to you. Comment below and tell me how the West can be saved. I’m here to listen and learn.
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Drembo Snargon
Posted at 05:49 am, 31st October 2016I can tell you’ve gotten angry already. Or if not (if you absolutely *pinky swear* it just sounds that way), you should work on sounding as calm and indifferent as you really are.
Or not.
Anyway. Yeah, things look pretty grim. But some people don’t like to just surrender. As the political situation in the US deteriorates further, it’ll be increasingly difficult for men to make the kind of separate peace you’re making. It’s already impossible for most men. How is somebody with an average IQ and energy level supposed to pull that off? You go to bizarre lengths to keep your woman situation under control. It’s your idea of fun, but it’s not most men’s idea of fun. It’s not their idea of happiness. I’ve got the IQ, but I’ve made other arrangements that suit me better.
Your daily schedule is not appealing or feasible to most men. Your message to them is “tough shit, loser”. Ok, fair enough — they never did anything for you. But you offer them nothing.
In ten or 20 years, even what you’re doing now may not be enough.
Then what?
It’s not that we have a clear path to success. Voting won’t help. Guys who had given up on voting a year ago are all revved now up for Trump, but he’s not going to flip any switches that change the world. Trump is a sign of unrest and a rallying point, not the solution to the problem. It’s just that we have our backs to the wall, and giving in is arrant faggotry.
One funny thing about history: When you have enough people with their backs to the wall, and the folks running the show are corrupt retards, sometimes funny things happen. Not always. But we’re not exactly facing George Patton here.
Easter 1916 was a hopeless disaster. Right?
Nobody has a detailed plan guaranteed to succeed. For anything nontrivial. So what? For this type of business, a detailed plan is preposterous anyhow. We’re not launching an ebook, dude.
We’re not you. We don’t seek meaning and satisfaction in our lives where you seek it. Don’t like it? Tough. Nothing personal, but why on earth would anybody care what you don’t like?
You have great advice about dealing with broken, fucked up American women and, I presume, about making money in certain ways. Very sound advice on debt. As we can see today, you know how to drive site traffic by trolling people on the issues of the day.
But you don’t have a clue about this one. You’re just standing there red-faced barking “give me one good proof in formal logic for why you shouldn’t be me!” Lolwut?!
Dude. No. It doesn’t work that way.
Dead.Vargas
Posted at 05:51 am, 31st October 2016Too bad I won’t acquiesce of your invitation, because I just don’t think there is a collective plan that can be enforced.
I guess the only way we can make it back to pro-male environments is to either: (a) impoverishment (the First World lose it’s econominal prominence) or (b) violence (violently asserting — doing it under the threat of violence — gender-based roles to women, like in Russia). Nowadays, those options are not suitable, because everyone loses if we get poorer or we would live in a dictorial regime.
So maybe Alpha 2.0 is the only way to go.
Seamus
Posted at 05:54 am, 31st October 2016Caleb, Why don’t you put this over to them on Chateau Heartiste?
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/
Seamus
Posted at 06:17 am, 31st October 2016“If you want to know when I think the West will collapse, I have no idea. I don’t know that, nor does anyone else”.
That’s the thing with broken clock predictions they aren’t really predictions. So excuse me If i pass on pleasing the Gold and Silver doom porn scammers and charlatans i.e. Peter Schiff, Marc Faber Jim Rogers etc etc
I was into the Libertarian stuff about six Years ago until I realised it was a convenient controlled opposition tool (manifested in the Tea party) for the globalists. The other side of the coin was the Wall street 1% protests etc.
It takes no account of Culture specifically White, Northern European culture.
It’s become apparent in the last few weeks that Trump is putting his life on the line for his country.
If I was American there is no way I would vote for a psychopathic, genocidal, man-hating, corrupt, bitch who works for the Globalists.
Kaminsky
Posted at 06:38 am, 31st October 2016@Drembo Snargon
“But some people don’t like to just surrender.”
Ha ha. Classic ‘stand and fight’ alt-right “Conan.” You Conans are everywhere in the alt-right. Go to the gun-range, yeah, okay. Go out on your porch and wave your broadsword too. Run out and slay? See how long that lasts. But whatever battle cry bullshit you scream, you’ll just wake up the next day and PAY FOR LEFTIST BULLSHIT…again. Your vote just got cancelled out by some baboon who crossed the border a few years ago. Your vote is worthless and so are your words. All of your bravado is a joke because YOU ARE PAYING FOR LEFTIST BULLSHIT.
“It’s just that we have our backs to the wall, and giving in is arrant faggotry.”
More of the same. Don’t you see that your ‘Man Up’ bullshit is what the left takes advantage of? You can’t see that that is your weak point? Exploited so freaking easily? You Conans just get bent over by the left again and again. But you’ll “Stand and Fight” because you’re “not a faggot” but you’re getting REAMED by the left because you’re so fucking stupid. You’re PAYING for their shit, Conan. When you rally and yell and swing your broadsword on the back deck, the left is laughing at you and how easily you are to manipulate.
“Giving in is arrogant faggotry” = “pay taxes and fund your enemy while they laugh at you”
A true right winger would expatriate or at least go Galt/minimalize/minimal tax like BD. Anyone playing the “I don’t run” card is full of shit. That’s not how the game is played. If you are overworking and getting reamed on taxes then you are a BITCH, no matter how badass you feel at the gun range. You’re stupid. You’re being toyed with. The left will gladly let you beat your chest and stomp around like Conan, because they know you will be back at work on Monday to pay for their shit. Dummy.
Zarko
Posted at 06:58 am, 31st October 2016So we are supposed to come up with a very specific plan against a very vague crisis scenario of which the details and date of outbreak is unknown? I admit it, this is hard 🙂
Most of your “collapse” scenarios are not really a full collapse of Western civilization.
HunkyDory
Posted at 07:05 am, 31st October 2016Has anyone ever considered that the ‘Fall of the West’ is the plan itself?
Like the Cold War; merely wait the other out? That the flaws of western corporatism and regressive leftism will in fact destroy itself? Not in some cataclysmic doomsday event LOL. More of a, “oh shit! we’re broke and people are not happy. Let’s make a few changes.” And, over time, we find that we’re suddenly not in some Feminist paradise?
Simply adopt alpha 2.0 or mgtow lifestyles and wait. Take what you can. Be vocal and teach red pill knowledge. Make documentaries etc. If you want. But acknowledge that there isn’t anything you or any movement can do to change it. Simply wait for the ‘system’ to become too much of a burden to support and then the government is forced to start making changes (a slow-burn-collapse).
And when the government starts making changes they’ll probably just look around and go, “hey! ppl seem to be pretty upset about this feminism stuff. And it didn’t work so lets try going back a little bit.” And from the inside (manosphere) it will seem like ‘our’ movement has succeeded! Thank god we made those documentaries and books! They listened to us! When what really happened was that the economics of the system just became too much and they were forced to try an new method (which in fact was the old method). Basically Blackdragon is right and so are the ALT-right. Do whatever you want because the west will ‘collapse’, just not in any abrupt way.
missattempts
Posted at 07:08 am, 31st October 2016The only thing that can save us is “saved” people.
The outside is only a reflection of the inside.
The masses of men lack self perception because they are animals.
As bad as it is, it would be even worse but for an enlightened few.
God can keep the world going if that is his desire. We have been in worse
fixes then this.
Titus Hauer
Posted at 07:52 am, 31st October 2016Altough I switch between both sides i.e. saving the west or letting it to go waste because of things like a potential Donald Trump presidency.
I tend to agree with you, the West is already screwed & the best thing one can do is become self-reliant as much as possible, Don’t pay taxes, leave the west for all I care.
Heck, as I wrote in a few articles of mine I’d even go so far and say go and vote for Hillary, support their leftist ideas, call yourself feminist, go full lefty in order to let the West collapse on an even faster rate since it’s bound to happen anyway.
The plan in my opinion is to let the west go to shit, burn it down, and then rebuild it from scratch. May sound counterintuitive but that’s my take on it.
thescalpmaster
Posted at 08:12 am, 31st October 2016I am not an angry manosphere activist(I am on blackdragon’s side) but I’d like to throw in some of my own thoughts into this discussion.
1)The most important thing I want to add is that it’s impossible to get back to conservative society where men are valued like they should be. Do you think those feminist,LGBT , “Lives matter” communities will stay quiet? Even if Donald Trump is elected, he cannot suppress them because doing so makes him a dictator which in turn proves that men made a bad decision electing him(if he’s elected).
So, how about a society where everyone gets along? Again, it’s impossible for that kind of society to exist. Take a look at all the different societies in the world and show me atleast one where everyone gets along. They don’t exist. Someone will always be at a loss in any form of society.
Do you realize that the liberals are doing the exact same thing? They want everyone to get along. This is why stuff like PC is introduced. I agree that they have taken everything too far but they are moving in the correct direction by trying to build a society where everyone gets along. The manosphere is moving backwards, they fantasize about the good ol’ 50’s.
Let me emphasize the fact that someone will always be at a loss in any form of the society. It’s the men’s turn. Liberals and feminists have already won the battle.
2) I believe that men think that they are oppressed because of one important issue – Divorce rape.
(False rape accusations is the 2nd huge problem but it’s being fixed. Women will be jailed for it in future. Government is not that stupid. It will be fixed. )
To understand why divorce laws favor women you must understand how traditional marriage works:
Traditionally, man provided money for the family and the wife provided care/comfort. In turn, man received love,help and the woman received goods needed for survival(money). It was a great deal for both of them.
The world changed because of feminism. Women are capable of working on their own and can make their own money. So traditional marriage is a SHIT DEAL for a modern women because she provides a lot (extra money, care, love) and receives very less from the man in return.
To avoid marriages breaking apart, divorce laws were introduced and the laws tried to attack at the weakest link in a marriage- money. Obviously women will end up abusing them because it favors them.
But men are stupid. There’s something called prenup. Men can control their finances when the woman asks for a divorce if there’s a strong prenuptial agreement between both the partners. Why is manosphere trying to change divorce laws? Why don’t they realize their stupidity and teach others to make use of that agreement compulsorily instead of whining that laws are stacked against them? I still don’t understand this. It’s ridiculous!
Since the divorce problem can be easily solved, let’s talk about marriage. Why is manosphere fantasizing about a traditional marriage in a modern world? Any sane man knows that it’s fucking obvious that it doesn’t work because women have little to gain from it(read above). They will cheat. Sadly, a new lay is a tap away which makes cheating more easier.
Avoiding marriage is okay but why are they fantasizing about a traditional marriage? It just shows manosphere’s stupidity and their backward thinking.
3) Since it’s impossible to get back to a traditional society, the only direction is to move ahead. I don’t agree that blackdragon is 100% right [about what men must do in order to protect their ass and live happily] but atleast he offered a realisitic solution that works.
4) West will not collapse. I am fucking sure about this. Look at what Bill Gates has to say on the topic.
Let’s compare US and CHINESE economies for example.
The most important thing you must understand is that the economies are completely different. US economy is diversified whereas Chinese economy is based on manufacturing and is consumer driven.
Even if China’s economy beats US economy in terms of nominal GDP, it doesn’t mean that the west will fall. China becomes a world power that’s equal to US.
Think of it this way. US emerged as the most powerful country after the world war 2 beating UK, Germany and others. Does it mean that European union fell? It didn’t. It merely stepped down as a superpower. They are doing fine.
Even chances of this happening are very rare. US is way too ahead in terms of quality of life, that something countries like CHINA and INDIA cannot beat because of their massive population. Their governments are way too corrupt and control the media. China runs on failed principles of communism so their government will eventually collapse, just like USSR. India’s population is getting worse and worse and 60% of them don’t even have electricity!
In all directions, China and India has way worse problems compared to US. Their economies are growing at a massive rate because of Globalization. Let me explain.
Think of it this way- I launch a new product in both US and China with two different companies. China has a bigger market so my Chinese company can sell more. If the sales are high then the valuation of the company will naturally be high. So more wealth can be created in China for a same piece of product when compared to US. The Indian and Chinese GDP are growing at a very high speed because of this.
If you consider the previous example then you can draw a conclusion that China will beat the US in terms of nominal GDP in a decade, at most. BUT does that imply that china is actually growing ? It’s merely adapting to the global standards!!
Simply put, higher population => more wealth can be created by adapting to the global standards and newer technologies => higher GDP => higher chance to become the world’s largest GDP
The west will not die because it’s simply TOO DIVERSIFIED and less populated. They have less problems compared to the 3rd world economies. Third world countries are way too unstable and way too corrupt.
Fraser Orr
Posted at 08:57 am, 31st October 2016But I think your question has an underlying assumption — that we are spiraling down — which I think isn’t true. There are many things about today’s world that are vastly better than the world that some seem to aspire to. Gay people can get married and work in the military (instead of risking lynching) black people can eat in restaurants and marry whomever they wish, women can work in any profession they want and get treated at least equally. I detest the specific individuals but it is nonetheless a really great thing that America did elect a black man president and might elect a woman president. The first has been a disaster and the second would be even more disastrous, but it is nonetheless an indication that we are leaving behind a very real history of racism and misogyny.
In terms of individual freedom advances have been even more extreme. When I was a kid the idea that marijuana would be legalized was insane. Now it is practically a reality. (BTW, I don’t use mj, but I rejoice that you can if you want to.) Technology has transformed communication, disintermediated business, allowed millions of people to strike out on their own to start their own micro business (our host included) and held governments accountable in ways that have never happened before.
Briefly back to drugs, a drug I do use occasionally is Kratom. The DEA out of the blue decided to classify this as a schedule I narcotic, like heroin. Anyone who has used this drug will simply laugh at how ridiculous this it. Using Kratom is kind of like drinking a strong cup of coffee without the shakes. However, the internet rallied and worked together, and it looks like the DEA will back off. Twenty years ago something like that would simply not have been possible.
For the manosphere in the realm of sex, we live in the most liberal societies that have ever existed. It used to be that pre-marital sex was considered a disgrace, and women’s virtue was protected at the point of a shotgun. Today women have had the chains of virtue tossed aside and are far more able to express their sexuality. Whether than be in causal sex, polygamy, FWB, or various kinky practices (if you like that kind of thing) that thirty years ago would be shocking. That along with medical advances protecting us from STDs and pregnancy, and the internet disintermediating the sexual world, and educating both men and women how to connect more effectively (men learning effective seduction is just as beneficial for women as it is for men) it is like a paradise.
We might lament the dreadful wars in the middle east, however, historically less people die in war per anum today that has ever really ever been the case in recorded history. That is compounded by the amazing medical treatments that have brought us health and long life that a king of one hundred years ago would simply consider an insane fantasy.
Certainly, in the United States medicine has become ridiculously expensive, but we have to remember that today we live in a world that we can, in five minutes, research clinics all around the world, jump on a super cheap flight, get treated in Bangkok of 5% of the cost with equal or better facilities, then have a lovely beach vacation to recuperate. For my father to even imagine doing something like that would be ridiculous.
I could go on and on. I’m not saying government has brought us more freedom. That is against its very nature. However, the world has, and the real question is can technology and the modern world overwhelm that toxic forces of government.
That isn’t to say that anti-racism and anti-sexism have not gone amock. They have, and it is dangerous and ridiculous. It isn’t to say that the financial irresponsibility of the western governments is akin the the madness of Caligula. That too is true.
So what we need to understand is that there are two forces at work here. The power of the modern world opening up, transforming society into a freer, richer, happier and better place. And a countervailing force of government dragging us down into servile, bleakness and egalitarian poverty.
So BD’s premise that a technological black swan is needed to save us, is rather misleading. Technological black swans of this kind happen ALL the time. Some dude stuck in the basement in CERN hooked up some software to let him discuss freaky physics stuff with his colleagues, and ten minutes later Amazon became the biggest retailer in the world. Some guy with a bad haircut pulled off a deal with stodgy old IBMers, and ten minutes later every business computer in the world ran the Windows ecosystem with one hundred thousand pieces of business transformative software obtainable for $50. A couple of guys saw a table of numbers on a whiteboard in a business class, and because they hacked a geeky hobby computer made by a couple of dope smoking drifters from California, build Visicalc, an application that completely changed the way American business was run, and application whose progeny I use every single day. (I have long argued that American business runs on Excel.)
The cumulative growth of these technologies are strong enough to hold back the forces of government. In fact, they have done so for the past thirty years.
So if we want to be free, if we want to escape the collapse the BD predicts, the first thing is to work in that field of technology and being a user of technology. Or take advantage and build your business. Cut free form the machine. Push forward the countervailing force, destroy government by making it irrelevant. Do this not just because it makes you personally more free, but makes the rest of us more free too.
In the past, if you wanted to start a business, it was a huge endeavor. In fact in the far past you actually needed an act of Parliament or Congress to incorporate. Today you can start a web business for $10, and incorporate for a couple of hundred dollars.
I’ve written enough for now. In another comment later I’ll comment on how to deal with the other side of things. How we can tamp down government to allow technology and the modern world to get ahead of it, so that we have a positive forward force rather than a negative force.
The key point is this: there is no “solution.” It is always a war between those who would take our freedom and those who demand it. And in the modern world we are so fortunate to have available a tool that terrifies tyrants everywhere — technology.
JT Money
Posted at 09:22 am, 31st October 2016The West can only be saved if you return muslims and hispanics who were born or have been here in the last 50 years to their native countries.
Keep the blacks out of sympathy and drastically cut 90 percent of all social programs
Gil Galad
Posted at 09:30 am, 31st October 2016I’m afraid I agree with this.
BD, can you make your prediction a bit more falsifiable ? At what date would you admit you were wrong if the West hasn’t collapsed by then ? 2030, 2040 ? (“wrong” in a weak sense that includes the technological breakthrough that might save the West)
I’m also putting my hopes on that.
Mark
Posted at 09:44 am, 31st October 2016Great comments so far.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:09 am, 31st October 201614 comments in and I see a few interesting viewpoints but I don’t see one specific plan.
Based on the comments above, here are a few things that are not specific plans:
“people don’t like to just surrender”
“violence”
“libertarians are tools for the globalists”
“God can keep the world going”
“everything will be fine”
“kick all the Muslims/Hispanics out”
These are not specific plans.
I have a specific plan for the betterment of your life, as described in great detail in my blog and books. If you think social / political activism is the answer, then you should have a specific plan too. Fair?
“BD is full of shit, instead do what I want but I don’t have a plan” isn’t a recommendation that makes any sense.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:14 am, 31st October 2016Because I’m looking for a specific plan so I can have a rational, reasoned debate with someone where we can both learn from each other. If I posted this over there I’d just get bunch of raving insults. (Have you seen the comments over there?)
Making predictions that specific is hard, and since I was wrong about Obama winning re-election, I’ve learned my lesson and stayed away from doing that. But your question is a valid one, so I’ll say 2040.
And again, remember I’m on the record as stating the West won’t collapse if there’s a tech revolution that saves it. That’s still quite possible.
Drembo Snargon
Posted at 10:29 am, 31st October 2016@Kaminsky,
Ah, yes… broadswords. Taxes. Gun range. Case closed.
You have a wonderfully cool and collected way of setting forth a devastating logical critique. Do you have a blog?
FiveSix
Posted at 10:52 am, 31st October 2016I like Zarko’s point about the challenge. I also agree with BD about the BS the alt-right is trying to deal out.
“Patriarchy” is not a solution to problems: You can’t convince me that men are so much more rational than women… when 80% of men still believe in some Sky Santa Clause.
The best things us Alpha 2’s can do is lead a successful life. If others want to emulate and become successful by living within their means, it’ll be a first slow step in the “right” direction for the values in our country.
If men are too lazy to follow, that’s their problem (and a systemic one), they can wallow in the bullshit as it gets worse.
“Citizens get the government they deserve”
JB
Posted at 10:59 am, 31st October 2016I sometimes don’t really understand you Americans..
Who said the old days were good times for America? You were a racist country against your own population (Irish, Italians, African), your national debt was already starting to pile up, you spent the majority of your economy on fighting communism (and arrested many of your own citizens simply based on someone using the word ‘communist’), your government condoned both foreign and domestic false-flag operations (and your wars with Vietnam, Cuba etc were the results of such operations).
You overthrew governments in many countries in order to place ultrcapitalists in power, who made damn sure to divide the population into ultra rich and dirtbag poor.
And you think this was a good system?
As a white non-irish non-italian American MAN, probably yes. As anyone else, hell no.
I’m not saying that Europe is any better, or that our left-wing society will stand any longer (it most likely won’t), but let’s not kid ourselves – America has never set an example for the world, and it’s people have never been free. Things may have gotten worse now than before, but they sure as hell weren’t good back then either.
Fraser Orr
Posted at 12:19 pm, 31st October 2016So what can we do to hold back government? There are two ways to do this as far as I can see. One is political and the other is non political. Let’s start with political, who we vote for.
We have a stark choice in this election between Clinton and Trump. Both of them are dreadful people, but it isn’t a popularity contest. The question we need to ask is: what would they actually do (rather than what they promise they will do) and how will that affect things.
I’m not even going to bother eviscerating Clinton, because almost every policy she has is deeply destructive. However, let’s look at Trump. Irrespective of his many, many faults, here are some things that he has promised that he can actually do, assuming he has a majority in the senate and house (albeit a hostile majority.) This is based on his recent speech at Gettysburg:
1. Appoint less nightmarish judges (if the Senate stays with the Republicans, due to previous rule changes under the Dems, these judges can get appointed since Republicans will support him in this endeavor.)
2. Hiring freeze on all federal employees — this he could certainly do if he wants (though it could lead to a union strike)
3. Remove two regulations for every new one — this he can also do since he is head of all the rule making bodies. (Of course this can easily be fudged royally)
4. Various bans on government officials becoming lobbists. He can do some of that by modifying employment agreements of agencies who work for him.
5. Build a wall along the border. He can make this happen, and he can possibly make Mexico pay for it (via controlling transfer of money between the countries.)
6. Arrest and send back criminal illegal aliens. The DOJ, FBI, BCIS and ICE would work for him, so he can tell them what to do.
7. Withdraw from TPP
8. Open up mineral drilling rights on public lands.
9. Stop immigration from Muslim countries until “we can properly vet them.”
10. Possibly hassle peaceful illegal immigrants living here.
Most of these are extremely positive for the country (though a couple of them I am not all that keen on.)
Things he promised that he probably can’t do:
1. Term limit constitutional amendment
2. Do much with Obamacare (it’ll end up in filibusterland)
3. Renegotiate NAFTA (again it’ll require approval which he won’t get.)
4. Make significant changes in the tax code without the piggies in the trough.
Do any these things turn back the tide? Definitely not. What they do though is slow it down a little. Government is never the answer, it is always the problem, so the best we can do is to decrease the rate of government to a point where it is below the countervailing forces.
The most disappointing loss there is Obamacare, a ruinous scheme that not only makes American medical care worse, but also will puncture future medical advances to make us healthier and live longer. That is something that will impact everyone, everywhere, because the American medical system subsidizes the rest of the world. Bottom line is that when it is financially disavantageous to have people live longer to the government, then the government will not do anything to make people live longer. And it is, both from an Obamacare perspective and a social security perspective.
I hope that changes, that medical care will return in some sense to the private realm, but I doubt it will.
On the flip side, changing things politically can happen from a private side. There are a plethora of ways to do this, and really it is much more powerful than voting. But let me offer one simple example. One big issue in this election is college debt. The reason for the crisis of college debit isn’t complicated. When people aren’t confronted with the need to pay, they don’t care how much stuff costs. And as a consequence college costs have skyrocketed, there is no incentive for anyone to try to reduce costs. On the flip side, culture has pushed the idea that everyone should go to college and “a college eduction” is good regardless of what it is.
So if I had the money and the inclination I’d fix this problem privately. I would start a college, get it accredited, and then I would offer tuition and board for free. However, the condition would be that you would sign a contract with the college that you would give 10% of your net income back to the college for the ten years following your graduation. I would then run the college in such a way as to maximize the amount of money the students could make when they graduated (sorry, no medieval french poetry) and I would aggressively look at how to reduce the costs of doing so. Doing this ties everybody’s incentives together, and makes for reduced costs, and better outcomes.
There are variations on this such as the exact set up of the contract, or you could do it without setting up a college just paying college loans, however this is less effective for obvious reasons.
This type of college would compete very aggressively with others, and would eventually either get crushed by politics, or force all colleges to move in that direction.
And truly, if there is one change you could make to improve the future of America it would be to privatize education (from Kindgarten through college) because fundamentally the problem is that the people believe all the socialist claptrap that is spoon fed them from cradle to grave. However, pre-college education is a more difficult target.
So then in summary, America has some terrible forces in politics and culture trying to drag it down, but that is not the only force in play. There are technological forces and the libertarian ideal that pervades much of the tech society that pulls in a different direction. It is held in an equilibrium between the two, so small tweaks on either side can have very favorable effects.
So the action items would be:
1. Live free, as much as possible, and encourage others to do so.
2. Support aggressively initiatives that liberate technology
3. Start businesses, especially businesses that take over functions of government and do them much better
4. Vote for the less bad candidates in political office to slow down one side of the equation.
I make no guarantees that this will Make America Great Again ™ or whatever country you live it, but it is the best chance we have. There is no “solution” one time for ever, and certainly no political solution. What there is is a constant battle between the forces who would to tame you and your wild passion to not be tamed. So giving up is giving in. Fighting with the best tools available can either lead to a good outcome, or at least significantly delay a bad one, and constantly, indefinitely delaying the collapse is the same as preventing the collapse.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:48 pm, 31st October 2016Most of Trump’s rhetoric, even if I agree with a lot of it, is not a specific plan.
Here’s my response to Trump regarding the items you listed:
Obamacare was enacted because of a right-wing Republican judge, as just one example. Please explain how turning the Supreme Court over to corporatist Republicans will save America.
The president cannot do this. He has authority over the Executive Branch only, not “all” federal employees.
The president cannot do this.
Good idea. I think this would help.
Explain how this will save America when 27-40% of illegal immigrants came here via planes. I also need a specific plan of how this border wall will be paid for when we’re almost $20 trillion in debt. (And remember, “Mexico will pay for it!” is not a plan.)
This is not a plan, as I’ve said repeatedly above. Explain exactly how that will work in the real world.
I agree.
The president cannot do this (as far as I know; I could be wrong on that). But I agree that would help.
This is not a plan. Explain exactly how that will work in the real world. How will the President enact it in today’s political climate? How will it be enforced? How do you vet people from the third world where documentation and records are limited? Etc.
Explain how this will help save America.
Exactly my point.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:52 pm, 31st October 2016I don’t think the alt-right is peddling BS. I agree with almost all of their positions. I also agree with the reasons they’re upset.
The problem is, as I’ve demonstrated so far in this thread, the alt-right doesn’t have any specific plans to actually save the West. They have anger and slogans, but no plans.
johnnybegood
Posted at 12:55 pm, 31st October 2016Question itself is too broad. This country has hundreds of issues; it’s going to take more than an average 9-5 commentor on this board to pick apart any of them with knee-jerk emotional responses.
Hillary is a greedy corporate shill, but was so was Obama, W. Bush, Bill, HW Bush, Reagan, and on down the line. Is that anything new?
Trump is not going to shake things up much. He’s already half-way a politician. Pretending he cares about God, being Pro-Life suddenly, talking about the VA — same old bullshit talking points, only he swears more, so I guess he’s a “rogue rebel” – you know, just like how every lifelong billionaire living in Manhattan “hates the system” and promises that his VP will run foreign and domestic policy. Trump has no interest in governing shit, trust me. He may like the power though.
What exactly are we complaining about with the West here? Economic concerns? Security concerns? Or culture war shit? All of it?
Social Justice Warrioring, and Nth Wave Feminism (whatever the fuck it is now) — will change and adapt. It will eventually die and be replaced by something else. That is because the current iteration is patently absurd. It’s just plainly absurd and defies common sense, and you don’t need much intelligence to see that. HOWEVER, it will have to get even more ridiculous before that happens, but it will. And if it doesn’t, when some real villain comes along, like an ISIS terrorist, instead of a history professor telling you that you can make your own Halloween costume choices … these namby pampy “cry-bullies” will get a taste of reality as bombs and rockets bellow through the streets. At that point they’ll realize there are bigger concerns than “my fee fees” – in other words they’ll grow up.
Yes, men are currently seen as somewhat disposable. Perhaps that’s an issue of overpopulation and ever-modernizing technology making human labor less and less valuable, along with globalization (your income and lifestyle are being pulled to parity with some literal slave ships in China, obviously bad news).
The answer to that actually IS government action and regulation. Us, the masses, already have near zero military power (in 1776 in the US, and 1789 in France, the peasantry could actually somewhat compete militarily with a modern superpower – today, you’ll get obliterated with blackhawk helcopters, M1A1 Abrams tanks, laser-guided bunker busting payload, hellfire missiles, nuclear weaponry). The only power the modern American man has is economic power. We’re cheaper and more capable than robots, currently. As more and more of that gets automated, we all get squeezed. Even if you have a highly skilled job like programming or whatever, as low-level jobs get automated = larger workforce and competition for remaining jobs = lower wages and higher unemployment. Even software development will eventually in the far future be almost completely automated (like medium-complexity jobs) — and maybe left to a few ‘super genius’ programmers to manage the dev robots.
At that point, the elite that has the wealth and owns the robots and capital will be Gods among men. They’ll have pretty much all the economic and military power.
The only use for 90% of humans, if not more, will be as sex slaves and disposable “live action” video game characters. (By the way I was saying this before that show WestWorld even came out, ironically, but now I see the parallels. )Like Tag Romney the VIII will be playing call of duty, but he’ll be hunting you, a peasant NPC, for yuks. Blast your head in with a sniper rifle.
I mean of course there will be robots for all sexual desires and video games as well, but the “worthless human cattle” (as most of our posterity will be seen as) … will still have a purpose because it somehow gives a more sadistic pleasure to some of these rich fucks to cause real human suffering or fucking, etc.
That is what will eventually happen when your labor is no longer needed or profitable, your legal arms (an AR-15) is no longer effective against the security of the elite, and there is zero, repeat ZERO legal way to grow or hunt or purchase your own food (you have no money and all land is already “owned.”)
But by all means, let’s worship private enterprise.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:02 pm, 31st October 2016BD: Make a lot of location independent income and fuck lots of girls!
Commenter: How exactly do I do that? What’s the specific plan I should follow?
BD: How should I know? That’s too general a question. I can’t give you specifics. Just be Alpha and make yourself great again!
Seriously guys, how do you think this blog and its underlying business would turn out if I followed the same messaging standards as the alt-right angry manosphere dudes?
David
Posted at 01:03 pm, 31st October 2016Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number One.
Fraser Orr
Posted at 01:48 pm, 31st October 2016> Obamacare was enacted because of a right-wing Republican judge, as just one example.
Obamacare passed a couple of constitutional challenges against the votes of all but one “conservative” judges. More judges along the lines of Scalia would certainly be an effective counterbalance to a liberal agenda. There are dozens of cases in recent history to demonstrate this. Would it be perfect? Of course not, nothing is perfect, but it is better than a court full of Ginsbergs, which is what we would get with Hillary.
> The president cannot do this [Hiring freeze]. He has authority over the Executive Branch only, not “all” federal employees.
Sure, but the vast majority of people work for the executive branch. So again, not perfect but effective.
> The president cannot do this [remove one regulation for every one created]
Again, I’m sorry you are off base here. Regulations are created by government agencies such as the FDA, EPA and the FCC. These bodies make rules that flesh out the meaning of legislation. They make shit up all the time, and take stuff down all the time. Almost all these agencies work for the President, so he absolutely could insist on them doing this.
5. Build a wall along the border. He can make this happen, and he can possibly make Mexico pay for it (via controlling transfer of money between the countries.)
> Explain how this will save America when 27-40% of illegal immigrants came here via planes.
You think eliminating 60-73% of a problem isn’t valuable? It doesn’t fix everything, it is not a perfect solution, but it is a step in the right direction.
> I also need a specific plan of how this border wall will be paid for when we’re almost $20 trillion in debt.
I believe Trump has given just such a plan as I indicated. There is a negotiating vulnerability since a lot of cash is sent back to Mexico via federally regulated wire transfer. He could either increase the charges for this significantly, or threaten to do so and use the proceeds to build a wall, or the threat to get Mexico to pay for it. From my perspective, not Trumps, he could increase the cost of visas from Mexicans along the now less porous wall, to collect a fee to pay for it. Of course if he was smart he’d privatize the wall, and then we’d make a profit.
I don’t have access to all the data, but there are clearly ways to monetize cross border traffic to pay for a wall, the majority of the money in pesos.
> Explain exactly how [arresting and sending back criminal aliens] will work in the real world.
Instruct all Federal prisons to notify ICE when a criminal alien was to be released. Send ICE agents to pick them up and drop them off in Tiujanna.
> The president cannot do this(open drilling rights.)
Drilling rights, and permits for it, on Federal lands are generally controlled by the Bureau of Land Management. They work for the president. He tells them what to do. This doesn’t cover every drilling right, just many of them.
> This is not a plan. Explain exactly how that will work in the real world. How will the President enact it in today’s political climate?
He will instruct the commissioner of the BCIS (who works for him) to adjust the regulations regarding criminal background checks on certain areas of particular concern. Demand that before a visa is issued that a suitably complete background check is performed and validate that check. In many of these countries the systems are so fucked up it isn’t doable. This isn’t even a particularly discriminatory policy aside from the “disparate impact”, in fact, they should be doing that irrespective of where the immigrants come from.
> 10. Possibly hassle peaceful illegal immigrants living here. Explain how this will help save America.
It won’t. I am not in favor of this at all, but it is Trump policy. It won’t particularly accelerate the decline though.
> [Do any these things turn back the tide? Definitely not.] Exactly my point.
But I didn’t claim that that was the solution. I claimed it was part of the solution. The other half is in my other comments. What this does do is slow down the tide sufficient that other forces can overwhelm it.
And to be clear, to look for a political solution, a complete political solution is a classic mistake of libertarians. Libertarians love to rail against government and how bad it is, but somehow they think that if their guy gets political power it will all be different. Trump is no libertarian, and certainly not someone who I pin my hopes on, but he is better than HRC, and that betterness gives a space for other, more powerful forces to work.
By no means am I implying you are doing this, but arguments that “this approach isn’t perfect” aren’t all that valuable. When big change isn’t possible, it can only come about by the accumulation of small changes.
As I said a couple of times, there is no “solution” just an ongoing war between the forces of freedom and oppression. The solution is to keep fighting.
Charles
Posted at 01:52 pm, 31st October 2016You can not save the West, you can only save yourself. You are the only person you can control, the best thing you can do for “society” is to live a Good life.
In a democracy you will always be fucked, because the lazy amoral people will always outnumber the moral hardworking people. When you put your trust in a government, you are fucked. Their incentives are not your incentives; and most of the time they are fierce opposites.
donnie demarco
Posted at 02:04 pm, 31st October 2016Dear Manosphere,
You cannot change the world by complaining about other people, or forcing them to change.
You change the world by changing yourself. When the people around you come to recognize the value you’ve created, then you will become an inspiration and catalyst for change.
Love,
Donnie
KL
Posted at 04:42 pm, 31st October 2016I think you’re right BD in that the decline is irreversible. The equivalent time in history was sometime in the 1600’s when the Chinese first had contact with Europeans. At that point in time the Chinese were far richer than us and the seeds of the industrial revolution in Europe were just being planted. China could have caught the wave, but they didn’t because of moral rot. They were arrogant, complacent, and indifferent to the greater world. As a result, over 300 years they went from being the pre-eminent power to in 1900 being carved up into pieces by the 8 industrial nations that they would have called barbarians centuries before. There was no reason the Chinese had to cede their pre-eminence other than moral rot, and I see the same for the Western world today. We still have the best institutions, the best technology, the most resources and wealth to continue to lead the world. But our downfall will be our moral rot. We don’t work as hard or save as much. We’re unwilling to sacrifice or think on a longer time horizon.
I think our downfall will be a lot faster than 300 years. It might be on the tail end of our generation.
My plan is similar to yours BD. Ride the wave. The future for the next 400 years is in the East. I plan to marry a nice Chinese girl in an English-speaking part of East Asia and start a family.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 05:00 pm, 31st October 2016The purpose of this discussion is not to alleviate certain individual problems or slow the decline. If that was the point here, you’d list a long list of items and I’m sure we’d all pretty much agree.
The point here is to present a specific plan to turn the West around from economic and cultural disaster; to prevent decline, not slow it, and return long-term prosperity to US/Europe. If you agree with me that this is impossible, then you’re not one of the people this article is directed towards. I’m talking to the angry alt-right guys who seem to think this can be done.
My reply above was a very general answer to Trump’s proposals (I have no desire to debate the specifics of them here), much of which I agree are good things if they can be done, but they won’t prevent the collapse.
Amen.
Correct. This is why I am opposed to democracy as a form of government.
Amen.
Yup.
Marsupial
Posted at 05:31 pm, 31st October 2016Cheap, available, effective, long-term, non-hormonal male contraception will save the west.
In particular – vasalgel/RISUG.
Women want babies. They have a deep need to pop out a sprog or two. Male contraception, especially contraception that you have to take a trip to the doctor to reverse, will create a society where if a woman wants a baby she has to demonstrate that she will be a decent wife and mother. As time goes by, men will simply opt not to give babies to career bitches. Women will have two life options – vocational education and career, or home ec. (Men of course, don’t get this option.) And most of em will go “I wanna baby” and will do home ec.
The primary thing destroying society is bastardry. Men and women without fathers. The reason is that is is men who carry the culture: mothers mostly cannot inculcate *virtue* into their kids. Cheap, effective, long-term male contraception will mostly put a stop to this.
It will also mostly put a stop to frivorce, because a woman will no longer be sure she can bounce to a new guy and lock him down with a sprog.
More subtly, restoring to men a sense of bodily ownership and ownership of their sperm with create more of a future orientation. Your natural children are your gift to the future. One of the reasons the west is falling apart is that without kids/family, a man has no particular reason to care about what the world will be like in 100 years.
When the only way that a woman can have a baby is by forming a long-term family with a man, more long-term families will be formed because women want babies. Women will go back to “catching” men by the usual means. Men with wives and families look to the future and will save the west.
— EDIT —
“14 comments in and I see a few interesting viewpoints but I don’t see one specific plan.”
Sure. My plan is – fund and back the FDA approval of Vaslagel/RISUG (assuming they work), and then sit back and wait.
I’d go further and use tax dollars to pay for men who receive welfare or are felons to get the treatment. It would be the best money government ever spent.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 06:06 pm, 31st October 2016Of course the west is going to collapse and there’s no saving it. That’s like saying you and I are going to die, it’s inevitable. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do everything in your power to live a healthy life, visit your doctor, treat problems as soon as they arise etc. to extend your life for as long as possible. It’s the same with this. The west is fucked, but we can perhaps delay the inevitable, that’s all this is.
It’s chemotherapy for incurable cancer, it won’t eradicate the disease, but it may help slow the onset of death, allow the patient more time with their family and perhaps make the pain more palatable.
Anyone in these comments that thinks otherwise is dreaming.
Kurt
Posted at 06:25 pm, 31st October 2016@Marsupial,
How about sperm banks? Wouldn’t you have to get rid of those to make your plan work?
Good luck with that.
buzz
Posted at 06:37 pm, 31st October 2016It is hard to believe for most people because the earth seems like such a big place but our ability to reproduce outstrips any of our other abilities.
Religions that are against birth control and abortion are making our population grow faster.
There is a limit to how much fresh water and food we can produce, we are already pushing that limit now with very questionable food production. GMO’s are not proven safe, weeds and insects are becoming immune to our pesticides, fisheries are being fished out for some examples.
We do need to remove as many people from our country as possible, starting with people who are illegally here. We may even have to back out all the new citizens from the last 10 years.
We were doing fairly well with population control until everybody else in the world starting coming here.
We will eventually have to station our military at our borders with orders to shoot to kill and make abortion and birth control free for everybody no questions asked.
If we are able to do this the rest of the world will die out due to starvation and disease.
Witness Africa realize that is what most of the world will look like soon.
A Trump win would give us a little more time and may head us in the right direction.
A Hillary win will seal our fate.
Fortunately I will be gone by the time things get really bad…..
Zarko
Posted at 06:38 pm, 31st October 2016Nobody in the Alt-Right thinks that some degree of Western decline can be avoided. But this is again not a collapse of civilization. It isn’t exactly like civilization has collapsed and barbarism rules in Russia, Spain or Portugal even though these countries have declined relative to their previous power. And even if there is a collapse of civilization it need not be total, similar to the Roman empire. Why is there no coherent action plan from the Alt-Right? Because it has not existed long enough and shit hasn’t really hit the fan yet.
Joe
Posted at 07:10 pm, 31st October 2016Might have got away with genocide centuries ago, not now. Power of the vote, less corrupt in politics, government and media governed by hacked info, pushback from guys being more aware of the brainwashing. Worth a shot.
Batou Kovacs
Posted at 07:26 pm, 31st October 2016BD, thanks for excellent posts over the years. Just read Jack Donovan’s post at:
http://www.jack-donovan.com/axis/2016/07/no-one-will-ever-make-america-great-again/
Looks like he agrees with you, maybe it may spark some creative ideas for your next post.
Cheers, BK
Ed
Posted at 08:01 pm, 31st October 2016Well I certainly cannot keep up with all the “beta” action going on here. But I will give a few points of thought.
This country was founded by the idea that we have to keep, and protect liberty. Today most neanderthal thinking Americans can only tell you what they think Utopia should look like. The idea of patriotic liberty has disappeared from the common man, in which it was left to protect. The idea of the common man governing himself has NEVER been done before in the history of mankind. I know a rash of self made historians will refute this, but a self governed republic has only been quasi modeled by Rome, in the days of Christ, and it was not a viable model.
Using Rome as an example lasting 400+ years, we have only come to about 275, and we are thinking we know how to govern, or collapse as some think here. Take this with the notion many Americans hold, that we can govern ourselves without a moral compass. Impossible, just look at Rome, no moral compass, only military strength, out in 400 years. Greece succumbs to Rome without military strength in spite of educational advancement.
Weak examples, but follow with me. America has a self governed idea, that is much more than just that. We can believe in the same ideas in an instant “the Twin Tower attack”, and move as one, “WWII”, and tear ourselves apart.”civil rights movement, women’s suffrage, slavery”, and argue political differences without firing a shot, “Trump/Clinton”. At the same time remain sovereign in our struggles.
My point is that man is an animal that can only be governed by a moral compass, taken away we revert to tyrannical evil, and self destruction. We Americans have held to religious moral conduct since our birth. To look to the East, or the Antarctic for that matter, as an escape from “the West” is to guarantee decent into suffering. Doubt this, try owning firearms, or pursuing anti-government rhetoric in a foreign country, and see what happens. You say that doesn’t matter to you? Go with out it for a while, and see if it does. Dissatisfaction with this country does not mean that liberty, and freedom here is diminished, only your view of it’s value. BD can attest to the restricted freedoms of the far east, and other regions. Like them he may, but exercise this Constitution in those countries you will not.
Alas, the suffering I mentioned, just a few. Deplorable prisons, that you can end up in without a trial in some countries, or proof of the crime in others. Rigged elections, puppet governments, oppressive regimes, tyrannical rulers.
Freed by technology, really! Ask Kim Jong Ill what he thinks about that. He executed a cabinet member for nodding off at a briefing. Better yet ask the Greeks how Rome felt, etc, etc. Descent into darkness cannot be changed, or avoided without moral guidance. Moral guidance united with a common cause brings strength that can be harnessed into might.
We can hold onto this country if we preserve the idea of liberty, and maybe we fall into poverty, or maybe we fall into mediocrity. Either fate is better than any other place if for no other reason than that a moral guiding light lives here that will not be extinguished. Believe in that, and you have a starting point to work from. Liberty, and freedom springs from this.
A plan to help America? We will fall into economical collapse, then rise from the ashes. The illegal alien problem will resolve itself. The debt will be paid with agricultural assets. The economy will evolve into a technology driven microcosm, manufacturing will remain depressed, real poverty will be seen, social dependence will be reduced by attrition of programs. The “new America” will be the servant of the wealthy elites of the world. Constitutional rights will remain if we are not invaded by hostile nations. A real possibility, but may be prevented by China as asset protection. Otherwise, no outside nation will care what we do internally after we fall from power.
Our plan, do what we Americans always do, find a way to start over. Nehemiah did it in 52 days with a little help.
Anon
Posted at 08:33 pm, 31st October 2016The plan is simple and is already under way. Continue the virtualization of the world. Men are typically better than women at physical fields and science fields, particularly computer fields. The only reason the world seems pro feminism now is because we are in a transition between the physical world and living in a virtual world. Women are better at living in a world of both because they are better at multitasking. In the virtual world men dominate though. So once the world becomes more virtual men will be in charge again. The West may fall but the virtual West will rise. Whether or not one enjoys living in that world is another story
Fraser Orr
Posted at 08:49 pm, 31st October 2016The purpose of this discussion is not to alleviate certain individual problems or slow the decline. If that was the point here, you’d list a long list of items and I’m sure we’d all pretty much agree.
If you want to fill up a bucket with water, the first thing you have to do is plug the leaks. Government is the leaks, so we have to take political action to plug their leaks. In the rest of my comments I talk about how to fill up the bucket, specifically allow the extreme power of technology and growth to overwhelm what has gone wrong. It won’t fix everything, but it will fix a lot of things. The fact is that the world is a much better place today than it has ever been, and it will continue to do so.
So sure, if you only look at one half of the plan it won’t work. But both working together could fix it. Certainly nobody can have a “plan” in the sense of a directed, commanded set of instructions. Nobody, not even the president, has the power to execute that. However, what I am saying is that there are certainly scenarios in which the west doesn’t collapse and certainly we individuals have a role to play in making that happen, in the manner I outlined above in my comments.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:01 pm, 31st October 2016That’s a technological issue, not a political/social issue. I’ve already stated that a tech revolution could save the West. (Also, your argument doesn’t address the fact that millions of Western women love to have sex with multiple men even when they don’t want babies, or can’t get pregnant, or already have all the kids they want. Some of the most promiscuous women I’ve fucked were ones who already had kids and had their tubes tied.)
Yes. The “collapse” could take many different forms, all of which are bad, but with some worse than others. I address all of that in detail here.
I’m reading his book right now. It also looks like he lives about 30 minutes away from me. Small world.
Yes, I agree that after the collapse (which can’t be avoided), then, and only then, will certain people and/or small nations rise from the ashes to become awesome once again. I will likely live to see this. It will be an exciting time (once the pain and suffering from the collapse is behind us, that is).
We’re not trying to fill up a bucket. Instead, we’re on a sinking ship (that’s already halfway underwater). Sure, you can delay how long it takes for the ship to sink if you can get enough of your fellow shipmates to snap out of their stupor and behave rationally and intelligently; of course that’s true (though even that would be extremely difficult). But there is nothing you can do to stop the ship from sinking; to somehow magically push all the water out of the ship, instantly repair all the damage, pop the ship up out of the water, and continue sailing on your merry way.
Not going to happen. The comments in this thread are part of the proof as to why.
Minister
Posted at 02:44 am, 1st November 2016Everything that has a beginning has an end, too. Stating that the West will collapse, without defining a specific time frame, is not a prophecy. It is something that happens everywhere for centuries.
Fraser Orr
Posted at 07:42 am, 1st November 2016We’re not trying to fill up a bucket. Instead, we’re on a sinking ship
You want to argue over the metaphor?
Sure, you can delay how long it takes for the ship to sink
Delaying, then delaying then delaying some more is the same as preventing it from happening. And while your ship might be taking on water and you are trying to plug the leaks, the great forces of innovation and technology are buoying the whole thing up. There is a great sucking sound pulling your down, but an even more powerful sucking sound pulling you up. Ultimately, progress and technology will win, or at least it can if we can protect it from government, and all that delaying is precisely for that purpose. I’m not talking about black swan technology, but just the fact that progress and technology is a inexorable series of black swans interspersed with small, daily progress. It makes me optimistic for the future.
And the evidence is clear on this. Despite all the belly aching of the poor oppressed men of the men’s movement, the world is a vastly better place today than it was fifty, thirty, twenty years ago for everybody, including our men. Of course some things are worse, and as is always the case if you get caught in the net it really sucks, but twenty years ago the men’s movement could hardly even have existed. Many of the things that the men’s movement encourages men to do (get laid a lot, start your own business, start a blog, use smart drugs) were much, much more difficult twenty years ago than they are today.
Today our poor by many measures live better than the richest kings of two hundred years ago, and we have the audacity to whine about the good old days? Government didn’t make things better, technology did, and technology and progress are exponential things, whereas government can barely put it socks on in the morning.
The easiest thing in the world is to be a prognosticator of doom.
Anyway, I’ve made my case, thanks for playing.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:49 am, 1st November 2016I’ve said that at least four times here already.
(What is it about people who want to argue with me even though they agree with me?)
The Question
Posted at 09:58 am, 1st November 2016BD,
(Long time reader from the PNW, first time commenting)
“If you are part of the activist manosphere or alt-right, and think that voting for certain people, or voting for certain parties, or funding certain groups, or taking part in political or social movements will actually save the West and turn power back over to pro-masculine, right-wing, traditional values, then please leave a comment below, tell me how I’m wrong, and tell me exactly how your idea will work.”
I discuss libertarianism on my blog and recently brought up this very same issue regarding government. There is a lot of coffee house talk, but there is no plan. There are ideas and some strategies, but no specifics. I like the idea of a stateless society, the same way I like the idea of a crime-less society; neither one will happen. To acknowledge this doesn’t mean we’ve abandoned our views.
At this point, people need to stop obsessing over saving the West, start looking out for their own interests, and go wherever it leads them without worrying about who else is on the same path.
Since someone else mentioned Donovan, here’s a quote from one of his essays featured on this t-shirt.
“No one is coming. It’s up to us.”
If someone has a real plan, they won’t present it here, because they’re too busy implementing it.
I don’t plan on leaving America for various reasons, but I find nothing outrageous about someone saying it is a lost cause.
Fraser Orr
Posted at 10:30 am, 1st November 2016(What is it about people who want to argue with me even though they agree with me?)
No, you have pointed out that this might happen, if Musk or someone similar comes up with a black swan, my point is that it is inevitable. It is not a last wild hope, technology inexorably progresses. It is true that politics can crush it, but that is why politics matters, eliminating the barriers to make that happen. However, some random empowering invention being created is inevitable, as the thrust of history makes plainly clear.
Again, politics is a lever. A small change (such as a Trump presidency, for example) is less likely to crush that innovation. Hillary is the most secretive person in the world, the last thing she wants is the openness and liberation that comes with innovation. How do you think Wikileaks and Asange will fair in a Hillary presidency. Not well, I think. Not that I think Trump is a savior, however, his policies are bad in some ways, and good in other ways. The good ways happen to correspond reasonably well with what unleashes innovation (his trade isolationist policies being a significant and important exception.)
Concerning innovative black swans:
You predict decline unless something like that happens.
I predict growth because something like that inevitably happens.
Honestly, I can’t understand how we can look at the history of progress and technology, compare life today with life in the past, and be anything other than optimistic.
johnnybegood
Posted at 01:19 pm, 1st November 2016Technology is like the stock market.
Past results is not an indicate of future movement.
Yes technology will continue to progress – as that happens with knowledge, once it’s out, it’s out – at least int his day and age. And iteration leads to scrapping the bad, keeping the good, and the better. So there’s that.
The question is – will the result of technological progress always be positive, merely because it has been so far for say — maybe the past 200-300 years at best? Will it be positive for everyone?
The Native Americans probably didn’t fare too well with the advent of the gun.
I’m sure those child laborers working 10 hours a day, or those women perished in padlocked factory fire didn’t exactly benefit from the Industrial Revolution.
I think pinning all your hopes and dreams on some “genius savior” (as peasants have been doing for millenia) like Elon Musk — like he’s going to invent an Earth-saving-machine that makes every prosperous and ends violence or sexual politics – is complete folly.
Our society is getting more nihilistic by the day. The curtains are being pulled back, we’re slowly realizing there is no God, or meaning to anything. And people are slowly falling back to money, consumption, hedonism, pure pleasure — as the only things with meaning.
The internet and television has held it up clear to the majority of the population – you are losers, you won’t fuck the prom queen, you won’t be wealthy — and that has made many people very, very angry. Hell there was a crime surge in the 1960s after the advent of mass television. Poor people saw how the other half lived, and that made them disgruntled. Not realizing exactly how your neighbor is living makes you content – but knowing it; that pisses people off. Especially Trump supporters.
Not sure there’s much the common citizen like us can do anyway. Watch it devolve into hell and maybe have an escape plan, or buy an offshore oil rig to live on when the end of days comes, lol.
Fraser Orr
Posted at 02:01 pm, 1st November 2016@johnnybegood
Technology is like the stock market.
So you say, but then in the following few paragraphs you go on to demonstrate that exactly the opposite is true. And frankly, what is wrong with the stock market? It has risen inexorably for the whole time of its existence, and it is an extremely powerful tool to raise capital, make assets liquid and monetize invention. Of course there are bumps in the road, and government regulation and monetary policy are the amplifiers of the natural ups and downs (did you know, for example, that the Great Depression was caused by insanely stupid monetary policy preceding it, not by greedy capitalists.) So comparing something to another thing that has generated trillions of dollars in wealth, and facilitated innovation and all of modern civilization is hardly a criticism, even though the comparison is rather misleading.
> The question is – will the result of technological progress always be positive, merely because it has been so far for say — maybe the past 200-300 years at best?
Nonsense. Technology has been positive from the dawn of human civilization. Blades made of flint, the taming of fire, the invention of agriculture, the invention of writing, the wheel, the paved road, the arch, etc. etc. All these primitive technologies in themselves radically improved the lot of humankind. 200-300 years? Nonsense.
Will it be positive for everyone?The Native Americans probably didn’t fare too well with the advent of the gun.
Nothing is positive for everyone, but are you seriously proposing we regress to before technology? Does the idea of a hunter gatherer society, depending on the caprice of weather and animals, as was the case for many native American tribes, really appeal to you? American Indians suffered due to a lack of technology, not because of technology.
How much do you weep for taxi drivers now that their rent seeking monopolistic, manupulative practices have been castrated by Uber and Lyft? Me? I don’t shed a tear.
I think pinning all your hopes and dreams on some “genius savior”
I am not. I am pinning my hopes to the reasonable expectation that technology will continue to improve our lives as it has done since our ancestors climbed down from trees in Africa. And I am pinning my hope on the fact that it is going to grow exponentially as it has since the Cro Magnans crossed the Bosphorus. And my hope is not some empty belief in a magical trend, but is based on a solid understanding of why technology grows that way, and why it grows exponentially, and why everything in the technology world is focused on continuing to do so. So no genius savior here. Just lots of extremely bright people, doing hard grinding work, using capital from greedy capitalists demanding an ROI.
makes every prosperous and ends violence or sexual politics – is complete folly.
Folly you say? How come nearly everyone in the west lives a lifestyle that would make the kings of old weep with envy? Unlimited food? Air conditioned homes? Motor vehicle travel? Instantaneous communication? Access to the knowledge of the species at the click of a button? Dental anesthetic? Antibiotics? And how come, if technology doesn’t solve these problems, has violence plummeted in our world? True both in crime statistics and in the fact that few people die in wars anymore (not nobody, but compared to history, this is the safest time to live.) As to sexual politics, certainly not fixed, but if you think things haven’t improved between the sexes I’d have to tell you you are wrong, and most of the benefit has redounded to men. Certainly there are some wacko yes means yes things going on, and for sure divorce is unfair, and rape accusations are devastating, but overall men have far easier access to sex than they ever have, have far better information on how to deal with the female sex than they ever have, and far more flexibility in the types of relationships they can have with women than they ever have. You can’t seriously believe you’d be better off living in a time when a woman’s virtue was protected at the barrel of her father’s shotgun?
And people are slowly falling back to money, consumption, hedonism, pure pleasure — as the only things with meaning.
And that is bad exactly why? Personally, I wear the label hedonist with pride. How about you?
The internet and television has held it up clear to the majority of the population – you are losers, you won’t fuck the prom queen, you won’t be wealthy
Seriously? Have you read this blog? It is easier to get rich and to “fuck the prom queen” than it has ever been. Just because lots of guys are too lazy to do it, doesn’t make it any less real.
Not realizing exactly how your neighbor is living makes you content – but knowing it; that pisses people off. Especially Trump supporters.
Ignorance is bliss? It pisses off the lazy. It inspires the motivated. That sounds like an excellent outcome to me. Just about anyone can get rich if they are willing to try hard. The information is a click away, or worst case a $19.95 ebook away. Most people are too lazy to do it. Tough shit. No sympathy here for the lazy, though you’ll get my joyful applause if you make something of yourself. When you get rich we are all better off. So go, do that.
Fraser Orr
Posted at 02:23 pm, 1st November 2016Apologies that I screwed up the formatting of that last comment so badly.
Ed
Posted at 02:25 pm, 1st November 2016JBG, you were heading in the right direction then crashed
“The question is – will the result of technological progress always be positive, merely because it has been so far for say — maybe the past 200-300 years at best? Will it be positive for everyone?”
Yes you are right
“I think pinning all your hopes and dreams on some “genius savior” (as peasants have been doing for millenia) like Elon Musk — like he’s going to invent an Earth-saving-machine that makes every prosperous and ends violence or sexual politics – is complete folly.”
Yes, right again.
“Our society is getting more nihilistic by the day. The curtains are being pulled back, we’re slowly realizing there is no God, or meaning to anything. And people are slowly falling back to money, consumption, hedonism, pure pleasure — as the only things with meaning.”
Short sighted in the fact that you claim there is no God. That my friend is folly, and I will stay objective in the facts. We are the only true Judeo Christian nation founded in the belief of Jesus Christ. We are certainly straying from the direction of God, precipitously due to children born out of wedlock. Increasing the velocity of moral degradation, and perpetuated by media blitz of absent moral lifestyle as the norm for America. This brings about a self indulging Utopian thought process that returns to the days of barbarism, albeit slowly, but surely. Moral lifestyle breeds liberty, and freedom. lack of it breeds hedonism, and barbarity. The USA is falling into hedonism, God is not moving, man is.
” Not realizing exactly how your neighbor is living makes you content – but knowing it; that pisses people off. Especially Trump supporters.”
Where did that analysis come from? Trump supporters are anti-government, middle class, tax payers. The are seen as a threat to the Elitist mentality in Washington from both parties. Exactly why Trump is hated by both sides of the elite class. His followers are not him, but in fact want change so badly, they cling to him. Many of his supporters are Libertarian believers that want to tear down, and rebuild our government. Within that group are Christian followers that want the same, to break the tide of hedonism at the Elite ranks. Unless you are of the Utopian thought process, these facts are clear, although skewed to each man’s opinion, but facts they are.
Saracen III
Posted at 03:06 pm, 1st November 2016Restore the nuclear family.
It is up to men.
Women as a voting block will eat societal-suicide brownies
unless the necessary choices are pushed to the top of the FI stack.
Process acronym:…..S.U.N.R.A.I.
have the Snip…..be Unmarried….. Never date single moms
until the Repeal of…..Alimony…..and Individual child support
Men who pre-emptively take Baby-daddy and Money-mook out of relationships
will walk taller, make a better income, and pull better pussy (props to Daddy T).
If high-status men consistently refuse to marry while alimony is on the books,
or to sire or rear children while ICS exists, the word will get around among the gals.
When a critical mass of women understand that the only way to avoid Single-Mummy-Hell is to start writing to their Congress Critters, it will happen and happen fast.
Note that there is NO appeal made to women, just presentation of a situation.
None of the above requires repeal of women’s suffrage, no-fault divorce, or division of community property, and can be implemented without forming parties or associations.
Sean
Posted at 03:12 pm, 1st November 2016http://nhindependence.org/
I am friends with the board members (we run in the same ancap/libertarian circles); however, I pretty much see it as a waste of time. Under what circumstances do you think it could occur? Is it actually worth devoting any energy to?
Fraser Orr
Posted at 03:19 pm, 1st November 2016Increasing the velocity of moral degradation
How can you possibly claim we have a high velocity of moral degradation? Today, gay people aren’t arrested, women aren’t treated like chattel, and black people aren’t lynched for looking at a white girl wrong. Today, women are not judged as sluts and whores for the simple act of enjoying their sexuality. Today, we try to treat disabled people like regular people, while accommodating their disabilities. Today you can have a beer or smoke a joint without some moral scold tut tutting. Today you can leave a vile marriage without it meaning the end of your life. Today, adultery is not a scarlet letter, but a careless mistake. Today, when a parent beats a child with a belt we look on with horror and assault charges rather than admiration. And I could go on and on. The world, and America in particular, is a more moral place than it has ever been, unless you measure it against the moral code of some desert dwellers from three thousand years ago.
I agree that single parenthood, something that is a product of government programs not rejection of religion, is a devastating blow to children and society at large, but the fix is less government not more religion.
And what, pray tell, is wrong with hedonism? Why would seeking the most pleasure out of life, which is short and often difficult, not something to be admired?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:23 pm, 1st November 201653 comments and counting, with no specific plans to save the West and return it to glory via politics or activism…
I’m still waiting, alt-righters…
johnnybegood
Posted at 03:28 pm, 1st November 2016No, I don’t think that’s possible or even preferable. The optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this to be true. I don’t think it’s possible to hold back the progress of technology – only some things – like nuclear missiles, for example, although those haven’t bitten the West yet – some technology may lead to a horrible future. The idea that society will naturally get better and better, without thought or reason, is a dangerous one. It needs to be actively monitored. And power needs to be dispersed, not concentrated in the hands of a few, yet our society is consolidating power at the top. Neither you or I are in the Big Club, as Carlin says.
I wouldn’t say everyone, but yes for most, that’s true. And yet the ego prevents most people in 2016 from being content or satisfied in day to day life. They look to their neighbors and Facebook friends as yardsticks, not the kings of old. Hell, this has been demonstrated in chimpanzees. I’m paraphrasing but give a chimp a banana, and he is satisfied. Given him a banana and his friend a bunch of grapes (seen as better) – and he will throw the banana at your head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exxxXMQSLUc
I’m not saying wealth and hot women are not attainable to people on this blog; just that it’s really not possible for the majority, almost by definition. It’s not a zero sum game, but both business and mate selection ARE, to a degree, a competition among your peers. The populace is pissed. Mass media is a big part of this. My point is, when our society is pissed, it expresses itself in culture and politics and a bevvy of other ways. The ego wants to assign blame to different groups.
As for hedonism, there’s nothing wrong with pleasure, but it’s a shallow pursuit, in my opinion. It’s kind of like a libertarian mindset where the simplicity of it all, against a wildly complex universe, has a certain appeal. But then you realize – it’s infantile thinking, to a degree. If my entire life was just one big constant drug-high, and constant orgasms and food-pleasure, that would be nice for a while, but too empty and meaningless for me. Perhaps there is nothing greater, but I’d like to think that there is.
Anyway back to the topic at hand – nothing one man can do at this point. I think the average American’s – and I say AVERAGE – their economic value is going to go down, waaay down. Both due to globalization as well as technological automation. To where they are making poverty wages or lower. There will be a choice – provide basic minimum income for everyone and maybe some work + educational requirements to that end — or devolve into a Lord of the Flies where there are roaving masses of violent unemployed, being gunned down by Premium Turbo-Droid bodyguards of the Wealthy.
But, day to day, I don’t worry about this shit. I’m just one man. I think we’re a long way off, time-wise, from massive social upheaval.
Duke
Posted at 05:18 pm, 1st November 2016Can’t say I really know much about the topic at hand, but I’d venture that there likely won’t be much of noticeable difference 10, 20, 30 years from now, since the decline will be very gradual as it has been since the eighties. Money printing and low interest rates doesn’t appear to have any discernible effect on the economy. I mean I don’t see any bread lines. The housing bubble popped and yet here we are. The current government debt bubble will pop, and things will slow down again for a bit, only to return to relative normalcy.
Of course people won’t have any savings as a result, but they will still settle for any job they can get and continue to chug along as if nothing happened. They will continue to get all of their entertainment fixes through drugs, video games, or what have you that will distract them from all this mess.
Where this might get interesting is how sharp of a decline there will be once some people slowly start realizing America is not so great and this becomes reflected in the amount effort people start putting in. The whole “why am I working so hard just to get taxed to fund the welfare state” thought process permeates a huge portion of the male populace, who start slipping into a life of minimum wage and food stamps. The perceived value of pussy has artificially kept this economy going the last few decades, but with mgtow who knows how long that will last.
In the end, this all this Alt-Right business is just a bunch of posturing on the internet with no specific plan that’ll eventually die down when they realize that voicing their frustrations is an exercise in futility. Smart men like Donovan, BD, and others will focus on themselves; the rest will continue to live their miserable lives while trying not to kill themselves. That male birth control thing and sex bots will have an effect on male-female relations which will be interesting, but those seem to be decades away.
Ed
Posted at 06:15 pm, 1st November 2016The last thing to say is that Rome thought hedonism was OK too, and drum role……………here’s Nero
Study Roman Emperors, and get back to me
Moral compass: study Federalist Papers, Speeches of George Washington, read the new book from Eric Metaxas, then get back to me.
Barbarism: Study Joseph Stalin, read O’Reiley’s new book “Killing The Rising Sun”, and then get back to me.
My opinion is that BD, and others here carry a lot of wisdom, and he knew this thread would bring out Alpha arguments. Internet posturing with no concrete plan?? Boys, THERE IS NO PLAN. Run, hide, pray for death, whatever, there is no plan. Run to the far east? put up with corrupt governments. Run to South America? risk barbaric take-over. Stay here? risk economic collapse.
What to do? Follow BD’s economic plans, travel, and see for yourself. Rid your self of debt, improve yourself as you see fit, and then wait for it to hit the fan. Maybe sooner, or maybe later, but everybody here agrees, it’s coming. Feminine influence will be the last thing we will be thinking about when it comes unhinged. Time for Alpha males to be self centered, and inner concentrated. Peace brothers
Axel
Posted at 06:58 pm, 1st November 2016No plan in sight BD. Here’s my plan:
Buy The Unchained Man(Already did this)
Apply TUM:AM 2.0
Realise I can only control me and enjoy my life
Just turned 25 last month: use the wisdom of people like you to build an Alpha 2.0
Emigrate. Brit in Sierra Leone.
West in decline. Come take a walk in my neck of the woods
Saracen III
Posted at 07:08 pm, 1st November 2016“53 comments and counting, with no specific plans”
Do I stutter?
Repeal Alimony and Individual Child Support Laws in their entirety.
Being more specific would fill my hard drive.
eg Repeal by deletion 7 CFR 273.9 Incomes and Deductions b) 2) iii)
“Support or alimony payments made directly to the household from nonhousehold members.”
C
Posted at 07:18 pm, 1st November 2016You know from first-hand experience that people are not rational when it comes to discussing politics; it ties back to societal programming. The root cause of the West’s decline is the prevalence of Leftist dogma throughout culture – media, entertainment, education. This societal programming has basically caused people to value the violent enforcement of equality over mutualistic liberty. To save the West, the right has to win the war for culture in order to get the population to vote the good policies back in.
Such an approach will take a lot of time and luck for it to succeed. This cannot be performed by one single person unless that person was EXTREMELY powerful. But here’s a general big-picture plan:
1. Rally the forces. Right now, the energy of the Right-leaning population is not being channeled in the proper areas. In the case of America, Trump may or may not be helpful, but people will just vote to reverse back to leftist policy if they still believe it’s the best. If the Right can concentrate its influence into cultural megaphones such as media, education, and entertainment, then there is a real fighting chance for the resurrection of the West.
2. Change societal programming, target the young specifically. I believe how the left gained its power was through the indoctrination of the young. It’s much easier to convince someone young to accept your arguments than to convince someone with decades of emotional investment in a world view to change. This step will involve a lot of innovation. But if the right can push forwards a better education system than what we have currently, then they can properly teach students history and politics. If the right can get good entertainers – movies, comedians, or whatever – to make it big, then they can deliver a powerful emotional argument for young people to adopt traditional virtues.
In the end, what else prompts someone to stick so stubbornly to their views besides an emotional attachment of some sort? People often complain about religious indoctrination of Christians, but the same phenomenon also happens with atheism, socialism, and other leftist schools of thought. The distinction is that most of the big government people are leftist.
Leftism has already made its mark on history – each Westerner has been indoctrinated by leftism to some degree. Most regular people living in the west have many traditional/right-wing beliefs. That’s why the West, especially America, is not going completely to shit right now. It explains why left leaning people have WAY more double-standards than people on the right. But it took only a few bad beliefs to expand government and to establish affirmative action in campuses, for example.
A lot could go wrong through executing this plan, like a surge of immigration from really regressive Middle East nations, but successful execution would mean a long-term change in terms of the West’s prosperity. Very hard to execute, but I don’t see anything quite like America and the West coming up again in the world soon.
Sean
Posted at 08:22 pm, 1st November 2016The question is whether we should hang up on the idea of “The West”, especially now that distance has become less of a limitation in the world of today. Contintents, countries and regions rise and fall in power. Just 400 years ago the Dutch and Portuguese were mighty seafaring nations. Look at them now: they are simply small countries in a monstrosity called the EU.
I am not necessarily worried about the loss of a country, as national identity is just one parameter of one’s identity. Unlike alt-right nationalists, I do not want to cling to heritage as the core of my belief system.
What is worrisome, and I believe this genuine fear is shared by most members on this board, alt-right forums, Red Pill and such is the loss of freedom and individualism in exchange for a globalist, political correct hell.
Feminists, left-wingers, muslim extremists, refugees and others are used as useful idiots to create a system where the power and influence of the individual is overwhelmed by that of the collective.
This makes sense, as a collective is much easier to control than the individual. The only difference is the angle. Instead of religion (Christianity, Islam), nationality (Nazism) or social class (Communism), the method of control is equality.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I am all for equal rights. I am, however, against forced equality where the successes of an individual or a group are sacrificed as the other individuals or groups can’t compete.
Identity politics, cultural marxism, cultural appropration and white guilt – It’s all nonsense that is being forced down our throats to force an “equal playing field” but instead muzzles oppositions, stops innovation and initiative dead in it’s tracks and eventually will lead to economic collapse.
I agree with BlackDragon that “the Left” have already won the battle. I am taking my own birthregion, Europe, as example, to demonstrate how the new generation is manipulated and gaslighted into a collective that can be easily controlled. Education, media, the legal system – all key positions are filled by people that have sworn fealty to this new collective.
There are solutions and the Alt-Right community would look into the direction of confronting the collective with another collective. Something is brewing in Europe and groups such as Pegida (an anti-Islam activists group with roots in Germany but divisions throughout Europe) or the Soldiers of Odin (a nationalistic group in Scandinavia that wants to defend the Scandinavian culture) are forming as a counteroffensive.
As an Alpha 2.0 male, these solutions would be less than ideal. Replacing one collective with another collective will still limit your freedom and reduce your happiness. My assessment is that it would be hard to run the setup proposed on this site for instance in Russia, a traditional society with a strong alpha leader (Putin) and the Russian orthodox church who decides the moral code of society. However, this society is heralded by many Red Pillers as an example for the US and Europe.
As for my solution? I believei it is up to the individual to create a path to freedom through technology, self education and self reliance. This does not mean some zero-sum, anarchy where only the strongest survive. Cooperation is still a win-win for both sides in many situations, yet, it will not be a forced cooperation.
Initiatives such as alternative education, alternative news sources, alternative payment methods are steps in the right direction offer a much stronger and harder to contain counteroffensive to the current decline of the West. I would sooner put my money on initiaves like BitCoin, innovators such as Elon Musk and activists like Aaron Swartz and Julian Assange as opposed to initiatives such as MRA or people like Anders Breivik. Offer a realistic alternative to the government, politicians and banks.
The best option a man in the current society has is to improve himself, learn skills and trades that make him invaluable and adaptable. If the decline in the West hits an all-time high, get out and wait. More and more people will realize that they are being robbed blind from both sides, pack up their bags and leave. With no more cash cows to pay for the bank bailouts and social benefits, the whole structure collapses. And who knows, you might just be able to buy a country in Europe within 30 years. 😉
Sean
Posted at 08:59 pm, 1st November 2016I did not see C’s post before I placed mine.
“The root cause of the West’s decline is the prevalence of Leftist dogma throughout culture – media, entertainment, education. This societal programming has basically caused people to value the violent enforcement of equality over mutualistic liberty.”
QFT.
“To save the West, the right has to win the war for culture in order to get the population to vote the good policies back in.”
The war on culture has already been lost. Furthermore, one can not divide both sides into “Left” and “Right” anymore.
Both sides play for the same team, but from different angles. E.g. Western relations with Saudi-Arabia. The left would state that we have to respect their culture and we have no right to critize it, despite the atrocities that take place there. The right, on the other hand, would state that we should not upset an ally as it would have severe consequences for international trade.
Then you have leaders that have strong opposed opinions, like for instance Geert WIlders in the Netherlands and Donald Trump in the US. While electing for one of these leaders may slow down the decline of the West, you have to ask yourself the question whether these are genuine solutions, or simply lightning rods.
Trump’s comments and past painted a huge target on his back. Wilders may be prosecuted and therefore pulled from the elections in the Dutch elections in 2017 or simply no other party will work with him, rendering his party ineffective.
So instead of writing threads on Red Pill in the extent of “Trump’s Dark Triad powers wetten Megyn Kelly’s panties, AWALT” and worship of a great leader, the answer would lie in a network of strong minded, talented and free individuals.
Will we ever get there? I am not sure. Many people do not want freedom. They need a crutch in the form of religion, government or any other collective to lean on and provide them with a set of rules to abide by.
I recall a post made by Jack out of the Box in one of the threads which has merit. That the life that many of the readers and commenters here seek is not what the majority of the people want and that a collective society in any shape or form simply is necesary to prevent the losers of society to go rampant. In the mean time, a secret society, parallel to the collective society, cater to the needs of highly skilled and connected individuals.
Professor
Posted at 10:13 pm, 1st November 2016This is not a “problem” or scenario which is unique to “The West”. It’s a global issue. The wold may not be as politically correct as so-called western societies. They are by and large programming people to chase cheap money (debt) and for men to pedestal women. Having lived in Asia and the Middle East for nearly two decades, I have not found that one place where men are truly men without paying something out to women. I’m not only talking about relationships or sex. I am talking about business, work, and so on.
We are living in a global civilization now, like it or not. The problem is global, the solution can’t be local without closing off borders entirely. And close borders has never been the case in Europe nor the Americas, no matter how many people here wish to admit it.
The specific plan is to not save something that isn’t worth saving. If the building is on shaky ground, the building needs to be torn down, or else it needs to collapse.
I don’t have a specific plan, because there is none, other than to focus on oneself. That’s what is being conveyed here, whether people want to accept it or not. People are selfish by nature, and only when they have been selfish enough, will they be able to extend beyond their selfishness to a greater good.
You can’t really throw all Muslims out. That’s not freedom. Lots of Muslims contribute even more than a lot of bread and butter Americans do. You can’t throw out Mexicans. Ditto. They’re not the problem. If you throw some people out because even fewer of them are perceived as a problem, then where do you draw the line? How many white men contribute to this “problem”? You can’t make women submissive again. You can’t beat the government, the big corporations and the media at what they do.
You can only sidestep them (or eliminate them) from your personal equation to the maximum extent possible.
Many women themselves are seeing the problems of leftism and perceived equality. It’s not serving them as well as they thought it would. But they’re not rational creatures (and not many people are). Hence the gold digger, sugar baby phenomenon, and even most of these types aren’t really accomplishing any sort of long term fulfilment.
Enjoy the ride, make money, play with women, focus on yourself and eliminate the noise. It’s actually always been this way, except there’s never been a more opportune time for ANYONE to be able to do that than now.
Napoleon Hill said it best on the topic of love…
“One who has loved truly, can never lose entirely. Love is whimsical and temperamental. Its nature is ephemeral, and transitory. It comes when it pleases, and goes away without warning. Accept and enjoy it while it remains, but spend no time worrying about its departure. Worry will never bring it back.”
C
Posted at 10:45 pm, 1st November 2016“The war on culture has already been lost. Furthermore, one can not divide both sides into “Left” and “Right” anymore.
Both sides play for the same team, but from different angles. E.g. Western relations with Saudi-Arabia. The left would state that we have to respect their culture and we have no right to critize it, despite the atrocities that take place there. The right, on the other hand, would state that we should not upset an ally as it would have severe consequences for international trade.”
You’re mistaken. The battle for today’s culture has been lost, but the battle for tomorrow’s culture is still being waged. An uphill battle is different from a battle that’s already lost.
The traditional conservatives do very little to gain a foothold in the minds of young people. That factor is key. Fox News viewers may vote for smaller government for now, but when they soon die of old age/sickness they start voting for Hillary Clinton. And they are replaced by young voters. These young people go to school, watch TV, and listen to comedians. None of them are really going to be hearing arguments to live virtuous lives or to fight for smaller government. Instead, they’ll be told that rich people or whatever are the source of their troubles and to vote for bigger government to stop them. After a certain amount of this indoctrination, you cannot use reason to change their minds.
Politics has gotten quite awkward overall. If you are a prominent right-wing voice and you do not protect yourself, leftists will physically attack you or ruin your life somehow, generally through your business/employment or your social standing. Whenever people on the right technically have a final say in something and “approve” some insane leftist policy, it’s generally because they’re afraid of the social ramifications. If most of the people you rely upon have enough leftist beliefs, being publicly disgraced on national media as a “racist”, “sexist”, or whatever can end your social and professional lives. The solution is to raise a culture that doesn’t care about stupid character attacks.
Andy
Posted at 01:29 am, 2nd November 2016Most of you should be locked in secure psychiatric hospitals for the safety of the general public.
thescalpmaster
Posted at 02:57 am, 2nd November 2016@BD
What are you expecting? Do you really think that those manosphere guys actually have a plan?
I’m pretty sure you will not get a reasonable response even after 1000 replies.
Check this link out. You will realize that the manosphere is obsessed and that they don’t think about anything else other than something directly or indirectly related to women.
So, do you expect THESE guys to know how they can fix the country?? You must give up! You will not get a reasonable answer!
Kurt
Posted at 06:57 am, 2nd November 2016It ain’t moral decay that will collapse our civilization, it’s shit like this: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article41141856.html
Our government budgets will be overwhelmed by the costs of fighting climate change, our agricultural output will decline, and we will descend from the cultural riches we now enjoy to be plagued by third-world level problems.
Argue all you want that it is or isn’t man-made, but there is no stopping it at this point. There will be massive civil unrest, wars over basic resources, collapsing governments, mass starvation and migration. Within our lifetimes.
Right-left politics won’t have much to do with it.
You guys are arguing over the wrong problems. This is the shit you should be hedging your bets against.
Tale
Posted at 08:35 am, 2nd November 2016“53 comments and counting, with no specific plans to save the West and return it to glory via politics or activism…
I’m still waiting, alt-righters…”
You spent years learning how to become successful with women, and have written hundreds of blog articles and a handful of ebooks on the subject. I’m going to make the bold prediction that it might take longer than two days and space for a few hundred words for someone to meet the standards you’ve set for correct answers.
I don’t even disagree with the majority of your opinions on the subject, but if any solutions do exist then it’s not going to be a quirky answer to some tricky logic puzzle, it’s going to read like a detailed plan of how to send people to Mars. Saying “gotcha!” every few hours because no-one has achieved that standard is being ridiculous.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:08 am, 2nd November 2016Good stuff. Great comment.
Did you read my article? I was very clear that saying things like “repeal alimony” or “restore the nuclear family” are not plans. Those are slogans, not plans. Please explain how you’re going to “repeal alimony” in a left-wing, anti-man culture and a thoroughly entrenched family court system.
Just give me 4-5 paragraphs on exactly how angry alt-right-wingers are going to actually repeal alimony in the US as it is today. I don’t need a 25 page dissertation. 4-5 paragraphs with specifics are just fine.
Do you not see that happening now, with Trump? I see the forces rallying yet I don’t see any change (yet at least; we’ll see if he wins). Hillary, the worst candidate in history, is neck and neck with the guy (as just one example).
I agree, but the entire educational system in the US and Europe is left, often hard left. How do you change this?
Correct. That is my solution.
Culturally perhaps, but economically, no. This is a Western problem. Despite a few problems along the way, China will do just fine over the next 100 years. The US/Europe will not.
Yup.
BD: Make a lot of location independent income and fuck lots of girls!
Commenter: How exactly do I do that? What’s the specific plan I should follow?
BD: It’s only been two days! That’s not enough time to come up with an answer! Plus I only have room for a few hundred words here! How do you expect me to answer in that short of space? Just get out there and do it!
At the time of this writing, approximately 21,000 people have read this article. How many have to read it before someone can give me some specifics? 100,000?
BD: Make a lot of location independent income and fuck lots of girls!
Commenter: How exactly do I do that? What’s the specific plan I should follow?
BD: Go on the dating sites, message a lot of girls, and fuck a bunch. Then start your own business and work hard at sales.
Commenter: Um, okay, I get that, but HOW do I do that stuff? I need some more specifics than that.
BD: How do you expect me to answer using your tricky logic puzzle? I already told you! If you want more detail, it would take 500 pages. You’re being ridiculous.
As I said above, 4-5 paragraphs with specifics on how you’re going to it are all I need. “Abolish child support” and other slogans (which I agree with by the way) are not plans.
Well, they keep screaming at me that “we can do it!” and “we can win!” and “movements work, BD!” So yeah, I have the right to ask some specifics about HOW this can happen.
And if they can’t answer my question with any specifics, and instead give me a bunch of excuses about how they can’t give me any, well, I’ll leave that to the readers to draw their own conclusions…
Ed
Posted at 12:04 pm, 2nd November 2016WOW, the educated banter here is nauseating. As for the secure psychiatric center; I want the room with a window!
All this rhetoric has failed to recognize the undercurrent of the points of view. Leftist ideology is a que phrase for “Progressivism “, which relates to failed communist, and socialist plans of the past.
The barrel of a gun has impact, and the desire of your opponent to use it to promote his ideology is the hinge to chaos. Example, ISIS- a religious based, totalitarian complex system, that uses barbaric violence as their persuader with the goal of absolute take over. Are they successful, yes at the base of their plan. The religious platform they stand on is widespread, and within that platform uses of barbarity at will, when it feels it needs to are prevalent.
American assimilation of leftist, progressivism ideologies also hedge on violence when it needs to. Riots within America have been pinned to racial causes, but in fact were bourgeoisie attacks in the inner city, albeit racially tinged, but ideology moved. Democratic supporters this election were found to have paid “instigators” to go to Republican candidate rallies to create violence, evidence that progressive ideology will use violence when needs are there. Inclusion of lower economic classes to fill the Leftist/Progressive ranks for vote build up, later gives them the mass needed to take over a system, when the violence button needs to be pushed.
Naivete on Alpha’s part is akin to sticking our heads in the sand to the real possibility of violent take over, either within or without. It will take longer within, but is more likely than any other possibility on the horizon. Without only requires nuclear launch by North Korea, or Iran in the near future. Conventional war leading to nuclear launch can come from aircraft shoot down of Putin’s jets, which will happen in either Administration next year. Possibilities are much higher for violent change versus peaceful change.
I appreciate different viewpoints where it be unrealistic or not, one view that swings the other way is that a conventional war brings out a nationalist surge that returns to Constitutional ideologies. Never underestimate man’s willingness to kill his brother.
C
Posted at 01:46 pm, 2nd November 2016Yes, I do see that happening now with Trump; however, the key is that the right-wing as a whole is neither united nor focused, especially on factors that will produce lasting social and political change. We have establishment Republicans condemning Trump, and the alt-right spewing memes on the internet. Certainly, some power exists, but it isn’t being used to convert the average Joes who have only heard about the good things of America’s current state of culture. The memes can help sway people, but just making them cannot overcome the vast amounts of established, leftist societal programming.
The key is that since the right is smaller, it must focus on specific things to attack. If they want to win the battle for education, they will have to focus on specifically that.
One problem with universities is that they are extremely costly for often poor education and useless degrees. Some enterprising right-wingers can focus on providing online courses and lectures. The infrastructure exists! One can use something like Twitch to stream lectures and receive comments, questions, and even test students in real time. This online infrastructure can be easily be combined with a small campus used only for club activities, events, and tests. If implemented and advertised well enough, online education can do what physical universities do for cheaper and provide conservatives with a platform to teach the conservative perspective.
Conservatives can also focus their legislation efforts onto primary schools. If they push really hard for the rights of charter schools and school vouchers over taxing, that also opens up the market for conservative entrepreneurs to megaphone their perspectives. The key is focus, since leftists by far outnumber us, as if they drop their guard we may scrounge a win on specific issues and produce lasting change if we choose correctly.
It’s real sad to see the direction the world is taking. Countries see only the economic benefits of America and thus adopt the philosophy “modernization yes, westernization no” at least to some degree. Sucks that non-western countries are generally awful at human rights for the sake of human rights kind of stuff.
If I had vast wealth, charisma, time, and a name to tarnish, there would be a lot I could personally do to try and save Western Civilization. As it stands, I do not know how to enact step 1. For now, my plans remains to carve my lifestyle under the Alpha Male 2.0 model and keep my eyes open for a chance. I know not to hold my breath for some miracle, but what I mentioned above is how I see the West making a resurgence.
At the end of the day, even if some genius makes some super invention. Leftists will not see how much everyone’s lives have improved but will still focus on the gap between the wealthiest and the poor. Inventions such as the computer, smart phone, and other gadgets have made our lives much better than merely decades before, yet you still today see stupid leftists pining to take away the rights of others and the general population nodding their heads away.
John Smith
Posted at 04:12 pm, 2nd November 2016If history is our teacher then historically I don’t think you can. The fall of Rome had many contributing factors and once that fall began you couldn’t really prevent it. The united states required a revolutionary war. But I think I can sum all of this up in one simple observation…
Give me a plan to create world peace? Okay, here it is. It is actually very simple. If everyone in the world wakes up tomorrow and wants world peace (and takes measures to enact it) we would have it within time time frame of only weeks and months. Maybe a year. Now here is the kicker, the shocker, the end game–the reason why we do not have world peace is because a large enough majority of people on earth have agendas that they value more then the single collective goal of world peace. Their wealth, their prejudice, their power, their vice, their religious or philosophical disagreements… whatever. World peace is pretty far down on the list and ultimately takes a second seat to their primary agendas.
The world is the way that it is because of a combination of contributing factors. Now, the world may not be EXACTLY the way various people want it to be but it’s as close as they can get it. That’s it. Enough people don’t want world peace. So we don’t get world peace.
But the rabbit hole goes even deeper. Let me use something that most of you can empathize with far more then world peace. How many people in the united states want legalized Marijuana? A hell of allot more people want it legalized (and are using it regularly) then the ones in power that don’t want it made legal. Now how many people went out and actually voted for it to be legal? What percentage of the population took the time to drive down to city hall or get and absentee ballot mailed to them (the literal equivalent of 5 min of your spare time and lifting a finger) and vote for good old Marijane. Very, very few. So pot is still not legal. All you had to do was register to vote and then vote. But did you? I know allot of people who didn’t. They only voted this year because of the election. But even still… how many pot smokers are not voting even now?
That’s why pot is still illegal.
So through peoples action or inaction… the world is exactly they way that it is because a certain amount of people in it want it that way and the rest of you are just generally lazy. To answer BD’s question: if there was a clear plan to save America it would rest in the hands of the people. But if such a path existed I doubt things would have gotten this bad in the first place. It’s kind of like the chicken and the egg.
BTW: I love this blog <3
Sean
Posted at 08:59 pm, 2nd November 2016To offer an “alt-right” alternative scenario for discussion:
One of the issues of the decline of “the West” is the lack of an identity. The United States has become a grab bag of cultures and identities. Europe is a “super-economy” built up from a set of countries that are “united, but not really united”.
I will take my own continent, Europe, as a base as I simply know more about it than other countries. If we look at the # population and the education level, Europe has everything it needs to not take shit from anyone.
There are, however, many problems with Europe:
– Severe differences in mentality between West, East, North and South-Europe.
– The EU is an ineffecient, corrupt organisation that drains tons of resources but gives little in return.
– The contintent is ran by globalists, lobbyists and left-wing nutcases. Basically, a poisonous cocktail of socialism, corporatism and globalism.
– Sorry, Europe, but ever since WWII you pretty much are the lapdog of the US.
Unification of all 30+ countries in Europe is simply not possible, barring some cataclysmic war of event, due to difference in culture, even these cultures are closer related than outside of the EU.
Countries on their own, however, cannot compete anymore with economies like China. This, in combination with European leaders having no vision, make the continent ripe for the picking. The US and China can threaten by removing their investments, the Middle-East can stop providing oil, Russia can stop providing gas and Turkey can flood them with migrants. Europe is completely dependent and hence it’s having it’s identity stripped piece by piece. It is selling itself out.
The solution is to create strong, unified blocks between countries that share a culture. E.g. by combining Germany, the Netherlands, the Dutch speaking half of Belgium, Austria and pehaps Switzerland, you end up with a relatively large land mass, strong economy, high education level and cultures that can be united, if there is a greater cause.
Unifying these countries will take time and effort. The current leaders would need to be replaced by leaders with vision. Money should stop going to welfare, foreign aid, tax-emption for the super rich but instead should go to research into technology that would make the new country independant.
If this unified, Neuropa so to speak, would for instance develop an alternative for oil/gas, create an extremely efficient infrastructure, increase harmony due to less culture clashes, etc. it will secure it’s freedom and it’s influence from globalist corporatism.
Of course, there are many issues with this plan, e.g. Russia and Israel simply not allowing a strong Germanic based block, or if the German citizens get pissed off enough and dethrone Merkel, it’ll turn in some tradcon neo-nazi dystopia.
When it coms to freedom of speech and meritocracy, France would be a better bet. However, France as a country is completely screwed. To shed some light for our revoultionaries, the French revolution and the Easter revolution were dismal failures at the time, yet the values of Revolutoin live on and Ireland is “free” from the UK.
Sean
Posted at 09:42 pm, 2nd November 2016tl;dr version: Germanic based countries split off from the EU, form a block, become energy independent, trade in the Euro for a decentralized coin, small government (infrastructure, army) with government positions based on merit, not democracy, education focused on entrepreneurship, technology and self reliance.
Marty
Posted at 12:40 am, 3rd November 2016Well, this is not a plan, but an outline of a few things that would need to happen.
1. Take away womens’ right to vote. Women cannot think critically, objectively and RATIONALLY when it counts. 8 years ago, we elected a President because he was black. He DID run a slick campaign, I’ll give him that, but what really put him over the top was Race. Stupid female emotionalism sided with the underdog. And it will again in a week. The Woman will win because it just SAYS so much about how far we have come as a society. After the Woman wins, and likely stays 8 years, next up will be a Gay. Mark my words. STUPID women voters will make it happen.
2. It fairly goes without saying, after considering No. 1, the equal rights amendment is repealed. (or whatever action is taken to undo a Constitutional Amendment)
3. Minor in the Grand Scheme of things, Homosexuals must be deemed mentally compromised, and Homosexuals cannot hold Citizen status. WOW, really? Really. Homosexual are TRULY oddballs whose needs and desires should not be catered to. Homosexuals values cater just to themselves. 1950’s values were for a man to get a job, get married, and have a family. This is still what is good for America, and right for our species. Homo’s desires and values simply don’t line up with the majority.
4. BITTER pill number one. Elect Donald Trump. This is no solution in itself. The ONE reason to elect him is he wants to fix our bad trade deals. Oh, and not to mention, bring parked offshore money in by lowering taxes on it. This is essential as it relates to what will KILL us. Essentially, bring making clothes and good back to the US. This HAS to happen and leads into No 5.
5. Become a Protectionist Nation. We CANNOT compete with any of the Slave Labor Nations. And if you did not know, they are out there. And since we don’t have the discipline or fortitude to just say no to slave labor, we have to cut off trade with MOST of the world. We’ll go back to WWII allies, and trade with them, and shun the slave labor nations.
6. Bitter Pill No 3, item 5 was BP No 2, move to become a more Egregarian Nation. We need to reshape our nation from an energy standpoint. Solar power HAS to dominate. Smaller more efficient cars, more intelligent population distribution, etc.
What will kill us and when will it happen? We are like fish in a barrel. Fish need water. Fine. We have water. (Money) But the barrel is leaking water. It is going away offshore, and not enough is coming back. When this reaches a critical point, the fish die. (money colapses) And the Fed has already been printing money willy nilly. That won’t even fix things. When will this happen. Under the Womans’ Reign. Next 4 – 8 years.
thescalpmaster
Posted at 01:25 am, 3rd November 2016@sean
EU is actually a very efficient organization when compared to countries like China, India or Russia. In countries like these, no progress can be made without bribing officials.
Governments don’t rule the country. Corporations does. I’m sorry to interrupt your fantasy but that’s how the world works.
Every country has a composite of agendas and ‘keeping the big money happy’ is the common agenda in every country. That’s how politics work. A king should always shower his courtiers with gifts and money or else he’ll be killed and replaced.
China is as big as the whole EU combined along with a huge population. It’s obvious that they cannot compete. You don’t have to blame EU’s leaders for this. They cannot do anything. Even if they wanted to, what does countries like France and Spain have? A huge stockpile of natural resources? Or a better technology? As BlackDragon said, the 1990’s was the last opportunity to make sure that the west controls the world. It’s too late now.
If middle-east stops providing oil, then the oil prices will fall down and will completely destroy their economies. This will never happen. Same with Russia. They don’t care who they’re selling to as long as they get money for their resources.
Immigrant problem is a huge one and is mostly caused by Americans and Russians fighting in the middle eastern countries for the sake of power and oil.
If they do anything like this, I’m pretty sure that the World War 3 will happen.
In reality, they don’t even have the power to do so. Do you think countries like USA, Russia,China and India will say “yeah, we’re cool with what you’re doing. ” and kiss their ass? As I said, Europe doesn’t have the power and capacity to do anything. The last opportunity was in the 90’s.
@BD
To summarize, this is what a typical manosphere guy thinks like. They fantasize about the past by denying the reality. They think backwards.
What you’re doing is a waste of time. They are not that smart enough. I have a crazy theory to explain why.
At it’s core, manosphere teaches about women. I agree that this is the best tool for men who are trapped in their disney fantasies of what a woman actually is.
So, men like Roosh, you and others put up their blogs and started sharing their thoughts and creating a community. It was all good.
But
You cannot talk about women for years. It gets boring and repetitive. You’ll run out of good content to blog about. Around 2013-14, manosphere took a different direction. They started a movement to restore men’s sovereignty or something like that. Naturally it attracts stupid people.
My point is -> a smart guy who’s living in a disney fantasy will eventually discover manosphere and understand game, women and self-improvement. It takes less than 6 months to digest all the useful content from most of the top manosphere blogs and subreddits.
At this point, he is an enlightened alpha. Now, there are two ways he can take – 1) move on and forget about manosphere 2) keep on whining about women, politics and other stupid shit in forums ,subreddits and in blogs like heartiste.
A smart guy chooses the former and the stupid guy chooses the latter. Reason? A smart guy has better stuff to do rather than talk smack everyday. At this point, the smart guy knows that he conquered women. There’s no point in whining about them everyday.
This is just a theory that I have made up from looking at my personal experience with manosphere. The only blog that’s worth reading is yours because you talk about real problems and share your experiences(EX: female condoms. Your best post in quite a while.) which I find really useful. Now, I look at websites like ROK which don’t offer me anything that’s worth reading. They keep on repeating the same old bullshit or talk about their fantasies or virgin women or how all men must vote for Trump. It’s really stupid.
So, do you still think that these angry manosphere men have a reasonable answer to your question? They are trapped in a loop.
Marty
Posted at 03:18 am, 3rd November 2016I set out 6 things that need to happen to start to right the ship in a previous post. I do see a lot of folks commenting on what CAUSED the decline. I’ll chime in on that.
What caused the decline was, Women Voting.
In a nutshell, that is it. For a Billion years or so, the law of the jungle ruled. For our species, men ruled over women. That is as Nature and God meant it to be. Give women a say, and it all goes to sh*t. I don’t think that that is a point that is hard to make with THIS audience. As evidence, I cite FaceBook Groups. I have Administered a few. There are basically 2 kinds of people on FB Groups. Cowboys, who want few rules, vulgar language, free speech, etc. Mostly men. Then you have the Tight Asses. They want things overly polite and “just so”. Mostly women. The US F’d up royally when they let women vote.
Scoobydoo
Posted at 04:24 am, 3rd November 2016@Thescalpmaster
You could not be more right. Amen. This comment section is perfect evidence of what you outlined.
Nothing to add.
Tale
Posted at 04:36 am, 3rd November 2016“At the time of this writing, approximately 21,000 people have read this article. How many have to read it before someone can give me some specifics? 100,000?”
I doubt anyone here is going to come up with a workable plan because writing anything more detailed than slogans is beyond our expertise and resources. The majority of people working at SpaceX wouldn’t have been able to formulate a plan to put people on Mars either, but Elon Musk did and now they are making their contribution towards making that goal a reality. Just because no-one here is likely going to be “the guy”, doesn’t mean they can’t contribute via voting/activism if the right person comes along.
POB
Posted at 08:34 am, 3rd November 2016I don’t think anyone here (or anywhere else) will come up with a plan to save the west, so we better acknowledge the facts:
01: a heavy portion of the world population is dumb (or ignorant) and LIKES to be ruled by the crooked 0,001% (if only on a subconscious level);
02: forget about governments or politicians…screaming and kicking against so many people does nothing to better your life because you’re heavily outnumbered, no matter what (remember: they WANT the crooked 0,001% to rule them)
03: In the 1:1.000.000.000.000.000.000,00 chance of the right taking control of:
– politics;
– working force;
– cultural and innovative machine;
– food and natural resources;
People would STILL crave to be ruled by the crooked 0,0001% and eventually put them back in power. Why? Because it’s in their nature to NOT TAKE CHARGE OF THEIR OWN LIVES AND EXPECT SOMEONE ELSE TO DO THAT FOR THEM. This is the fundamental premise of why the left is always winning (even when it seems to be losing some battles).
Promise any shit for “free” (that costs double or triple in taxes in real life), promise you’ll take care of them with invisible money you’ll pull out of thin air (AKA from insane government debts) and people will vote for you and do whatever you want.
I’m on full board with BD on this one: unless a freaking genius comes up with a revolutionary technology that puts power back on the individual, so much power that even the most dumb human being will no longer feel that need to being taken care for his needs, and things would (slowly) begin to change. Until then anything else is just empty threats or wishful thinking.
Mark
Posted at 09:18 am, 3rd November 2016Perhaps slightly raising the IQ of the general population through the use of nootropics or smart drugs in a socially acceptable manner like coffee is a possible solution. If the majority of the population became a tiny bit smarter it could have a huge impact collectively. I also think legalizing marijuana nationally could have a very positive impact on the economy. Many of the ideas shared by BD echo “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World” written more than 40 years ago by Harry Browne. I highly recommend at least skimming through it where it’s shared here for free: http://metaphysicspirit.com/books/How%20I%20Found%20Freedom%20in%20an%20Unfree%20World.pdf
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:21 pm, 3rd November 2016Exactly. The conservatives SUCK at following through on a long-term agenda. Conservatives conserve nothing. They haven’t even been able to conserve women’s bathrooms for fuck’s sake! Left-wingers have out-planned and out-gunned conservatives on every issue for the last 40 years at least. Right-wingers, despite the fact I agree with them on many issues, can’t get their shit together.
And they won’t.
Exactly.
I agree with your analysis, but I find it odd that A) I’m still able to talk about women, regularly, with no trouble, and have here since 2009, and B) the topic shift they made was to hard right politics. Why not to the left? Or libertarian? Why not other non-political topics, like lifestyle design? Or making money? Or fitness? So many other things to focus the manosphere on other than right-wing politics (which clearly doesn’t have a plan).
It’s odd.
At this point, no. We’re about 85 comments in after four days, and still nothing in terms a plan. Lots of excuses and slogans, but no plans.
It’s sad, but it bolsters my overall point: these people have anger, but no plan.
As I’ve said many times at this blog, you may not like my plan, but at least I have one.
Voting in corrupt elections as the world continues to crumble around you while hoping for a savior to come along is not a plan. It’s also a very shitty, debilitating view of the world.
Take charge of your own damn life instead of waiting around for some messiah to save you.
How weak.
Tale
Posted at 03:11 pm, 3rd November 2016“Voting in corrupt elections as the world continues to crumble around you while hoping for a savior to come along is not a plan. It’s also a very shitty, debilitating view of the world.
Take charge of your own damn life instead of waiting around for some messiah to save you.
How weak.”
I didn’t say vote in corrupt elections (haven’t voted in 10+ years), or that your plan should be to sit in your house and wait. As I said earlier I agree with your advice, I’m working on a similar plan to yours because it makes sense regardless of what happens in the future. The difference is I don’t believe:
a) The situation is literally impossible to recover from. My guess is a collapse is more probable than not, but history is littered with examples of people who achieved the “impossible”. Hard to achieve is not the same as impossible.
b) That your only options are 100% focus on improving yourself and completely detach from the political process, or 0% focus on yourself and dedicate everything to it. There’s no reason you can’t work on improving your own life and preparing for the worst, while making an effort if the right person or situation appears.
Anyway we’re not going to agree so I’ll make that my last post.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:48 pm, 3rd November 2016Thank you. We more or less agree then. A collapse is likely, and there is no viable political/social activism solution (other than a miracle; but a miracle isn’t a plan).
That isn’t what I believe either. I’ve said numerous times that there exist future technological options that may save the West.
We aren’t talking about individual achievements here. Nor are we talking about anything any one individual can fix. You can achieve the impossible, and so can I. But right-wing society can’t on a societal level. Not anymore.
Incorrect. There is a reason. The reason is that designing a lifestyle like the one I advocate, or even one similar to what I talk about, takes a decent amount of time, focus, and preparation. On top of that, you have to do things like 1) work to make a living, 2) take care of / spend time with your family if you have one, 3) maintain or improve your physical fitness (which is essentially a part time job once you hit age 40), 4) deal with all the usual problems and life overhead everyone has to work with, etc.
Every minute you’re devoting to political/social activism, fighting a war you’ve already lost a long time ago, is taking a minute away from bettering your own life, and unless you’re a loser who sits at home with nothing to do all day, you don’t have very much free time.
All this time, effort, focus, emotion, and anger the alt-right and the manosphere are putting on right-wing issues that can’t be fixed is pulling men away from what they could be doing: improving their own lives. How many millions of men could be making more money, having more sex, being more free, if they weren’t consumed by this alt-right anger that’s just being blown out the window because no one has a plan?
This crap hurts men. That’s my problem with it.
Sean
Posted at 06:30 pm, 3rd November 2016@thescalpmaster:
Oh, I absolutely agree with you that the chance of it working is pretty much zilch and mainly based on the talent of Germanic culture to rebuild from complete messes:
– From divided Prussia to main bad guy in WWI,
– From France’s cuckold to main bad guy in WWII,
– From country divided in wall until 90’s to strongest economy by far in Europe within 15 years.
But yeah, it likely won’t happen. Not that it really matters anyways. Countries are pretty much a thing of the past anyways and every country has major issues, even United States, Russia and China.
*adds Harry Browne to the “to read” list*
Saracen III
Posted at 07:21 pm, 3rd November 2016BD, I lke the way you think or I would not be reading your blog, but if you want me to expound on Plan SUNRAI, I need agreement on the situation as is.
I estimate 400,000 RP-aware men of the Alt-Right persuasion in the USA, of which 135,000 would make concerted action towards your stated objective if it was perceived to be in their short- and long-term interest. Does this meet with your experience?
If not, we disagree on fundamentals and I shall hold my tongue, with thanks for space on your forum.
Kurt
Posted at 08:06 pm, 3rd November 2016Oh Marty, I completely disagree.
Haven’t you ever seen the careful, thorough planning a woman will do to execute an illicit affair with you? The concealment of communications, the manipulation of her husband, her friends, and even you to make sure she always gets it the way she wants without getting caught?
Women can be masterminds.
Many (I would argue most) men can be completely ruled by their very irrational emotions.
Your simplistic, sexist view reveals a poverty of real thinking on this issue, and I think it comes from a very emotional, irrational part of your mind 😉
Stupid people should not be allowed to vote, male or female. Unfortunately there is no way to realistically make this happen, so we are stuck with the fatal flaw of democracy that I believe BD is referencing when he says he does not favor it.
The founding fathers feared the rule of an irrational mob and set up our electoral system to have checks against it, but without an educated and engaged populace even those checks have failed and we have descended to our current state. Taking the vote from women (plan?? how could this realistically happen) will not make anything better.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 08:10 pm, 3rd November 2016If I understand you correctly, you’re going to try to convince hundreds of thousands of right-wing men to never have kids and never get married. Good luck with that. (Right-wing men are the fucking champions of marriage and having kids.)
Marty
Posted at 08:46 pm, 3rd November 2016You provide a good example of female cunning, but you ignore my context. But this cunning is used to fight a woman’s feeling of “Quiet Desperation”, and a need to find release. This is Soap Opera drama, and has nothing to do with objective thinking needed in making political decisions.
This is being pussy-whipped. This is societal programming, and I would imagine you should know that, shouldn’t you?
There is simple, and there is simplistic. Yes, my views are simple. Men in charge. But it is not simplistic. The fact is we have complicated the simple. Nature has put men in charge. For OUR species. Take Hyenas for instance. They are ruled by females. Females are larger and stronger, and they even have a Faux penis, some hard skin, that protrudes from their genital area. Well, they PROVE that females can be in charge. No, it proves the larger stronger sex is designed to be in charge. Women are designed to be led. Women want a strong man that takes the lead, and they will follow. Elegant and Simple, not Simplistic.
Saracen III
Posted at 08:58 pm, 3rd November 2016“Good luck with that.”
Is that code for “yes, I agree” or for “No, I disagree”?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:01 pm, 3rd November 2016Saracen III
Posted at 09:07 pm, 3rd November 2016You have asked for 4-5 paragraphs of detail.
I am asking if you agree with my starting point: 400,000 and 135,000.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:08 pm, 3rd November 2016I have no idea if that’s accurate or not and I’m not going to do the research to verify it. My point is your numbers are irrelevant if your plan is to try to convince conservatives to not get married or have kids, because it won’t work.
Roger
Posted at 09:22 pm, 3rd November 2016The plan is simple, earn enough to get free, stay mobile, ideally move to a different small country where there is safety. A quiet neighbourhood if you will. And most importantly hide the money from the governemnts and Forbes richlist dudes. While keeping it liquid, slight paradox yes, but diamonds – if you can get genuine ones for cash can be smuggled (xray machines can’t detect them – carbon silly).
What I want to know is why Americans have a Pessimistic Build a bomb shelter and arm yourselves the government is coming! mindset?
A Young Black Male Reader
Posted at 06:02 pm, 4th November 2016Assuming most of you replying here are white males (I mean I know BD is one)… I think this is all hilarious.
Don’t get triggered, lol. I’m no Social Justice Whiner, so I’m not going to give you some sort of accusatory guilt lecture.
But White men in particular have this weird view of themselves. It’s like you guys think of yourselves in a vacuum despite evidence to the contrary being all around you. Whereas with minority groups we grow up learning to view ourselves not just through our eyes .. but also through yours as a means of survival. It’s likely that the other way doesn’t occur for most of you which leads you to view problems/solutions the way you do.
Proposed Solution #1. Deport All Illegal Immigrants/BUILD A WALL
I have one question. Exactly WHO is going to be doing this mass deportation of immigrants? and exactly WHO is going to support the mass deportation of immigrants?
White Citizens? I guess. Sure, for the sake of argument. Yeah let’s say a good 80% of you are on board completely. Even your women. Using whatever means necessary. I’ll even ignore the whole illegal immigration/black market economy you have with regards to poor (Eastern mostly) European sex trafficking.
Black Citizens? Eh .. maybe.. you guys never promise us or deliver anything on either side of the aisle so we could go either way. But that would take a LOT of convincing considering the way Black and Latino communities are interconnected. We ain’t allies or friends or nothing .. but we are socially connected in a lot of ways. However, I really don’t think there are enough hardened Black Conservatives to help you with this one.
Asian Citizens? UNLIKELY. On the surface, they don’t have a dog in this fight. But they play the illegal immigration game like the Latinos albeit quieter with regards to stimulating the economy in their own tight knit communities. They won’t be out to openly oppose you — but they aren’t going to help you either.
Latinos? HA! HA HA! You’re dreaming. Oh don’t get me wrong you might have some “Oh well I’m American now and I view myself as my nationality” Latinos on board MEDIA-wise. But if you think the Latino community at large, in practice, is going to HELP you MASS DEPORT their family members, you need to get off the Meth. Their devotion to family ties beat traditional American ones by miles.
Arabs? Ah yes .. the White people who don’t see themselves as white due to culture and religious ties. But they will call themselves white when they are made to check those ethnicity/racial boxes. Yeah this isn’t going to happen. Considering they are still in the process of trying to grow their own communities and power base in the United States and other European countries.. nah. Even the Christian Arabs … nah. It’s not going to happen. Plus you have that whole thing with refugees from various Arab/west Asian countries. So if they’re refugees.. they aren’t “illegals” then right? I guess you want to deport them too. Which brings me to the next issue….
Proposed Solution #2. Deporting/Flagging Muslims
I don’t know about Australia or Western Europe, but Islam & Muslims have been in the United States for a while now. Likely a lot longer than anyone reading this has been alive. Probably before you parents too. Without going into a history lesson .. most of you probably weren’t even aware of Muslims until 9/11.
But the thing about Islam is, the Muslims you are shown on television — the terrorists or whatever. The ethnicity of them (Arab) represent about a THIRD of the total demographic of Muslims Globally. Half of Africa including below the Sahara consists of Muslims. Then you have places in Asia like India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia … etc. Then you have the American Black ones who are already in the United States and have been established since the late 1800s.
So now that you’ve been educated… who is a Muslim? Can you spot one by looking? Did you know in Islam a Muslim can deny being a Muslim if it means protecting his life? So .. who is a Muslim? Where are you going to find them? If you were able to, who is going to help you deport them? What about legal American citizens who are Muslim? Where would you send them? “Home Country” .. if they have family who has been in the United States for more than 2 generations .. where is their “home country”? Flag them? Again .. how? Who is going to MANAGE and ENFORCE that sort of legislation? Are you going to make more government jobs for it? With what money will you be paying these people?
Get real guys.
Proposed Solution #3. Cut Government Benefits/Programs
Ahh yes. One of my favorites. Don’t get me wrong. I LIKE the idea. I like it because it will expose exactly who has REALLY been getting all these government benefits that white (largely) conservatives/libertarians complain about. Hint: It’s white women. Well them and all the white people in general who commit fraud. Go look it up yourselves if you don’t believe me.
But no. Aside from that I like the idea in theory because I do think that society in general would be better if it didn’t lean on the government to feed it no matter who it is.
It ain’t gonna happen though. The corporations that your elite have built would never allow such a thing. Why? Because they PROFIT from it in every way you can think of. From the credit transactions to the goods and services themselves. They profit from it all. You think you’re going to convince them to take a profit loss THAT major? Nah. Only in your wildest conservative/libertarian dreams.
One of Capitalism’s greatest strengths is also one of it’s most exploitable weaknesses. No corporation is going to let you take that away. Green means more than Red/White/Blue.
Furthermore .. if you cut government programs, where are you going to find the manpower to execute solutions 1 and 2?
Proposed Solution 4. More God/Jesus/Christianity
Haha. Yeah. Right. Christianity gave up it’s power long ago when they decided that individual interpretation was okay. As long as it has “Jesus” at the end or as long as you “Go to Church on Sunday” or as long as you “Pray” you can be a Christian. One can literally just start claiming Christianity.. there are no rules to it except belief in Jesus.
There are plenty of “Christians” among you. But they behave just like atheists they cry against. Islam is stronger than Christianity because Islam demands order. Whatever the order is … whether you like it or agree with it or not, Islam demands order from people who claim it. You go through rites of passage and once other Muslims know you are Muslims .. they expect certain things of you.
What does a Christian look like? More importantly… What does a Christian DO? What unifies them other than Jesus? Because Jesus can tell you to turn the other cheek just as much as he can tell you to bring the pain. So .. what unifies Christians past that?
Proposed Solution 5. Grab Yer Gunz/Race War/Whatever
I’m confused here. Exactly who do you think is coming for you?
Black people? We’re 13% of the population and have not grown from that in decades. In fact.. I think we shrunk a little for various reasons. And if we’re going to speak historically here — white people have marched on black communities to destroy and murder many times. You can’t say the inverse. If anything half of us would be kissing your ass (or some other group’s) and the other half would just want you to leave us alone. Which is pretty much the way things have always been in this country where we are concerned.
Asians? They aren’t going to do it with their guns and they aren’t large enough population wise even if they were going to.
Latinos? Do you even know a Latino when you see one? Are you sure about that? They can look pretty Anglo, brah.
Arabs? Not large enough population wise but — Do you know an Arab when you see one? Are you sure about that? They can look pretty Anglo, brah.
The government? … listen … if the government wants you. They’re going to get you. Chances are they will send someone who looks like you to get you.
Bottom line…
Change isn’t good or bad. It just is. Unfortunately your view of yourselves affects your views on the problems and solutions which causes you to see them in an extremely limited, narrow way. Ultimately making any solution you propose highly unrealistic. Politically or socially, you all just pick up a single puzzle piece while ignoring the rest of the larger puzzle.
So I agree with BD .. you all better just focus on being better individuals. Make more money. Get in shape. Protect your assets. Stop trying to hide behind limiting ideologies. Because you’re as much guilty of that as every other group you accuse of doing it.
Ruckus
Posted at 10:08 pm, 4th November 2016You want a plan?
1) Dissolve J@wish organizations, and threaten to kick out any remaining misbehaving J@ws. Which leads to #2
2) Call Israel’s bluff on the Samson option
3) Dissolve the Federal Reserve and settle for cents on the dollar with those who own U.S. debt
4) Publicize the Protocols of Zion/Frankfort School Tenets
5) Get rid of illegals through mass deportation/heavy fines of illegal-employing businesses/tax the hell out of wire transfers from the USA to Mexico
6) Drastically increase property taxes on foreign real estate investors
7) Implement Trump’s ideas on trade deal renegotiation/tariffs/lowering corporate taxes/implementing a non-interventionist foreign policy/reinvigorating the manufacturing base/heavy vetting of immigrants
8) Bonus – Establish a federal law that mandates any work week over 30 hours be treated as overtime. With increasing automation, and the need to cut down on Federal and NGO bloat, the only way to avoid mass unemployment is to cut everyone’s work hours. This will result in more leisure time/family time/individual passion and pursuit time. GDP will not go down, theoretically, due to increased automation/efficiency.
9) Bonus – Outlaw Satanism on a Federal level.
10) Bonus – Have the individual female vote count for 60% of the male vote.
11) Bonus – Dissolve the CIA and get them out of the drug trade.
You would also have to nix the Black Budget, but this would require ET disclosure. Since the challenge was to get America back to how it was, this is outside the scope of discussion, but I thought I would throw it out there.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:36 pm, 4th November 2016“Kick the Jews out” is not a plan, just like “kick the Mexicans/Muslims out” is not a plan.
Laurelhurst
Posted at 06:49 pm, 5th November 2016“A Young Black Male Reader” is correct. It’s too late to do anything about immigration, feminism, etc. The best you can do is maintain your independence and maybe move to a place which is relatively independence-minded and wait for the pendulum to swing back. All the racism and antisemitism on this thread is a reminder of why the alt-right is never going to be more than a protest movement.
Stephen
Posted at 09:54 am, 6th November 2016This is an extremely interesting topic. First, it should be stated that when one talks of the Right, one is talking about various ideologies, often with different beliefs among themselves, who are simply lumped together because in some fashion they oppose the Left. The modern Left is basically a coalition of special interest groups while the Right is a number of ideologies opposed to the Left. The Right could be divided at the bare minimum into: Neocons and Mainstream Conservatives, Libertarians, Traditionalists, Civic Nationalists, and White Racialists. Individuals and groups within these ideologies can overlap and there are various subdivisions within these divisions.
Neocons and Mainstream Conservatives (derided by the White racialist Alternative Right as ‘Cuckservatives’) appear to be a false opposition that the Left uses as a sparing partner in the fashion of professional wrestling and a safety valve to trick the angry masses into voting for instead of real opposition (until the rise of Trump). The Neocons and Mainstream Conservatives were about as real an opposition as the legal opposition parties in East Germany that were required to swear loyalty to communism and accept permanent minority status in Parliament. The Neocons posed as conservatives to trick dissatisfied voters into voting for them when the Necons’ real concerns were protecting and empowering Israel and the very unconservative Jacobin project of forcing American style plutocracy on foreign countries through military conquest in the name of “democracy”.
Likewise, many of the mainstream conservatives despised the white middle class and white working poor who voted for them and are largely crony capitalists in the pay of robber barons. These mainstream conservatives have disguised themselves at election time as white racialists (1960s & 1970s), civic nationalists (1970s & 1980s), traditionalists (1980s & 1990s), and limited government libertarians (2000-2015) in order to con the angry voters to support them. In reality they support the cultural and social changes and sexual freedoms that the left’s triumph have brought and really want to destroy the social safety net of the middle class and poor and reinstitute guilded age monopolies and standards for their robber baron donors. It goes without saying that neither the Neocons or the mainstream cuckservatives want to return to anything that would be beneficial for the angry alt right and manosphere guys.
The libertarians are divided into : (1) those who love the sexual freedoms of the current regime and want more freedoms and less government (especially taxes), (2) those who wait for some sort of opportunity to change the current system through more peaceful means, and (3) those who would theoretically like some sort of revolution. The first group is the hedonists called neo-libertarians or Randists or Objectivists or Left-Libertarians. They don’t truthfully want to change the current system in anyway that would appeal to angry right wing men. The second group are the more moderate minarchist paleolibertarians. These people are biding their time and don’t have any organized plan; they are simply waiting to see if they get an opportunity to implement their ideas. If there is a collapse perhaps they will get a land to implement libertarian minarchy. The third group, the radicals, can talk of revolution all they like but the reality is they don’t try to launch a revolution because they know the masses actually support the current system and they would be physically crushed. So all the talk of rebellion is bluster and larping.
The traditionalists are divided into the depressed and the delusional. The delusional somewhat overlap with white racialists. The depressed are the moderate social conservatives who WISH Disney was real and wish people could magically be turned into monogamous prudes and deep down despair because they know the 1950s aren’t coming back and the masses wouldn’t allow it if somehow they got the chance to bring “Father Knows Best” fantasies to life. The moderates simply like to bitch and moan online about how women (and men) won’t practice hard monogamy and how much they wish suffering and misery on promiscuous people (especially women). Some of these people talk of Jesus returning to save them and their Disney dreams and express a passive aggressive sadistic desire for Jesus to torture and punish sex positive people. I don’t think they should hold their breathes while waiting for Jesus.
The delusional traditionalists are authoritarian/totalitarian tradcon prudes who wish they could set up some kind of theocracy or monarchy or prudish white nationalist dictatorship and use state power to legally murder sex positive people and force their beliefs and preferences on an unwilling public at the end of a gun. The only problem with this fantasy is it requires a revolution to be implemented and, in spite of all the hate-filled daydreaming these people do online, these people do NOT have popular support. If the small base of these obnoxious people tried to launch a rebellion they would be smashed by the government and public would support their suppression. Perhaps the tradcons think they will play a role in some post collapse society but I don’t really know how much of a role. They say that Orthodox Church has made a come back in Russia but there is a still A LOT of promiscuous sex, hard drinking, drug use, abortion, and very non-tradcon living in Modern Russia. (Maybe some of the traditionalists are simply disguised nationalists/racialists who don’t really care about heterosexual promiscuity and actually mean persecution of homosexuals and removal of non-whites when they say they oppose ‘decadence’.)
The civic nationalists, such as Donald Trump, might be able to get some things done. If one sees these people not so much as people who want to go back to the 1950s or 1880s but as people who want the current system to less dysfunctional (such as having a massive wide open border), less anti-white, and more oriented towards good treatment of its middle class and working class poor citizens then it has some good ideas and possibilities. In this light, Trump could be seen more like Konrad Adenauer, who tried to work with what he had and not implement reactionary or radical change. If/when the collapse happens, people with this ideology/mentality could perhaps try to create polities that are not explicitly racial but have a lot of inborn constitutional checks that would make it extremely difficult for the left to get back into power.
The white racialists, whether they are moderates (Taylorite race realists), radicals (Alt Right white nationalists), or extreme radicals (the ‘Old Right’ white nationalists of Neo-Nazi/KKK type groups) need to win tens of millions of ordinary White Americans to their cause in order to implement change through election or revolution. Since the various potential policies these people advocate (such as bringing back segregation and/or anti-miscegenation laws or deporting all/most non-whites and/or forcibly sterilizing non-whites or seceding and setting up a white ethnostate or exterminating non-whites and executing white political opponents) seem unacceptable or even evil to most White Americans, I seriously doubt they can ever command the numbers needed to play a controlling role in US politics. The white racialists have been helpful with Trump’s campaign but a Trump victory is not going see white nationalist policies implement nor will explicit white racialists be put into positions of power. The masses will support building a border wall and even deporting Mexican illegals but they will not support anti-miscegenation laws and blanket cruel mistreatment of non-whites.
Many white racialists think the people are marionettes that can be controlled by propaganda but I think propaganda can only go so far. A hypothetical white nationalist news network could have whites staying farther away from blacks after highlighting black on white crime but white nationalists would encounter incredible opposition from “normie” whites if they had the governmental power to forcibly remove inoffensive non-whites from mostly white neighborhoods and tried to do so. The masses, including many Trump voters, would respond with anger and opposition if white nationalists had the power to try and prevent whites and non-whites from freely associating with other and attempted such. The dream of some white nationalists of launching an insurgency that would lead to a separatist white ethnostate or successful revolution would require massive amounts of whites that these people don’t have and it doesn’t look like they will have anytime soon.
Darryl E.
Posted at 03:21 pm, 6th November 2016The Republican party has to take multiple terms under multiple Republican presidents. They will instill and enforce Republican values in all federal agencies, DOJ, CIA, FBI, DHS, judges and soo forth. Culturally they will bombard impressionable kids with Republican value system, just as SJW, Feminazis found in 17-18 yr olds today who started college are the results of Democrat’s years of grooming through popular culture and media outlets. SJW, Feminazis are not the result of 1-2 yrs of Democrats yelling, but 8-10 yrs. They are so stupidly cemented in the Democrat belief system that they tell you how smart the clintons were for using a private home server with no security ‘look it means they understand tech’ umm no. They speak about freedom of speech always except when they delete all msg and postings about clinton’s corruption just like google, fb do as well. Under Democrats you will guaranteed have a one-sided non-stop propaganda media, corrupt DOJ, corrupt FBI, corrupt State Department because the head boss of those departments are always part of the Clinton inner circle of lifelong friends. Even if the 100,000 employees of the DOJ are all honest their corrupt AG boss gives them the ultimatum to not investigate the clintons, or they will be fired and lose their pension. No way around it. The clintons earn $250 million in the last 8 yrs. They earn a quarter billion dollars, if that’s not corruption and corrupting the once great USA system then I don’t want to know what real government corruption is.
Take the seduction industry. The 2 distinct type of guys are cool guys and dweebs who can’t get girls. Babies are not born cool or born a dweeb. Nor does a kid become cool or a dweeb in 1-2 yrs. No. Over 8+ yrs the cool kid focused on a cool haircut, cool clothes, being the center of attention, the conversation flame, exciting, friendly, nice, going out on weeknights and weekends, partying, listening to radio. The dweebs stayed alone in their bedroom, playing with toys, video games. cards, watching tv movies all afternoon and the result 8+ yrs later is a dweeb. Had the dweeb only done these things for 2 yrs then gone out regularly, guess what he’d probably would of turned out pretty cool and dated around a lot.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:48 pm, 6th November 2016It’s been one week, over 43,000 views on this article, and 100 comments, and still not one plan. Slogans, opinions, anger, and excuses… but no plans. Not one.
I’ll wait another 2-3 days, and if I still don’t see a plan presented here, I’m going to updated the original article with an addendum that I asked for some plans from the alt-right to discuss with them, but didn’t receive any.
I honestly thought I would get some interesting plans from the alt-right that we could discuss. Since I didn’t receive one out of 43,000 views, my opinion of this movement has just dropped several points. Disappointing. I’m not sure how I’m supposed to support a movement that doesn’t have a plan for victory other than quickie slogans like “kick the Muslims out” or “someone might come along.”
All this thread has done is further convince me that with a dominant left-wing and a right-wing with no realistic plan, my decision to move out of the Western world was a very good one.
Oh well. I tried my best.
Darryl E.
Posted at 10:50 am, 7th November 2016Have you ever even run a business with over 20 employees before Blackdragon? Are you secretly a 2 faced Democrat?
It’s ez to be a blogger as the only single employee and shoot ur mouth. ‘You guys don’t have a plan. None of you.’ Obviously you’ve never had employees, or project managers, or subcontracted. Right we’re going to have a 600 page detailed plan that professional, gravy train, Democrats take 18 months to formulate with a team. Are we getting paid six figures and 18months with a large tax payer paid team of lawyers to write a 600 page plan you desire?
It’s cause the medium votes is sooo unaware of the corruption that they vote clinton. It’s cause they aren’t full time politicians that they see the news present one vid of Trump on bus talking about flirting with women? Godddd he’s misogynist. Meanwhile the news buries bill clinton close friendship with pedo island owner, ignores his black son who look identical to bill, his wife threatening bill clintons rape victims…. stuff you probably don’t know yourself. Are you sure you’re not secretly Democrat?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:14 am, 7th November 2016As I said above, 4-6 paragraphs with specifics is all I need.
I ask for a plan to discuss with you guys, and you respond by insulting me. Don’t you think that says something about your movement?
Ed
Posted at 06:00 pm, 7th November 2016First of BD, why do you think being called a Democrat is an insult?? I find that fascinating for a guy who doesn’t care what people think.
But, the illegal alien issue can be stymied to a certain degree rather easily. Enact federal law that prosecutes any employer that hires a illegal alien. Penalty $50000 fine, and three years imprisonment first offense. This would make it impossible for employers to benefit from cheap undocumented workers.
Then push for legislators to enact/enforce law to verify identities in the US, by voter registration, of thru welfare roles, and eliminate benefits for fraudulent identities. These laws are already there by the way. This eliminates the economic engine for the immigration problem, no mass deportation needed.
AS FOR A PLAN,
No conservative Alpha male can predict what happens until we see what happens to America. If Trump wins the tide will be held up a few years, If Clinton wins the slide to plurality exponentially speeds up, and America crumbles in 4 years. These facts push for reaction to either end, and I can only surmise what I will do.
Clinton wins- Plan for the deterioration , find a way to “ghost your guns”, make yourself a ghost to public scrutiny by hiding in plain sight.
Find ways to avoid taxation, by lowering tax income, and by displacing taxable assets. In essence, avoid governmental harvest of your wealth because it will increase rapidly.
Look for conservative enclaves within the US to move to in a few years. There a plan can be formulated regarding asset security, and possible relocation outside the US.
Reduce debt as fast as possible, meaning sell expensive cars, and real estate. Give up what you must to protect yourself. A $500,000 house is a lead weight, that is too much to own, even if it is paid for, it is too much to own to be mobile, too hard to sell, a lot to take care of, and a heavy tax burden. Maybe land owned is OK, but still a tax heavy asset. Be ready to fly with transportable assets, offshore monies, and liquid assets.
These are things BD has discussed previously in certain depths. This is the most that can be done right now, and for the next couple years. Why you ask?
The world watches our predicament with acute attention, and will react with our decline in a way we cannot predict. Political changes will occur around the world when we unravel, as an economy, and as a world power. No country will be a better bet than the US in the near future, unless you are ultra rich. The plans can be made over the next 5 years, but MUST be made, because the unraveling will occur.
If Trump wins, do above actions over the next decade, but still do them.
The end of America has arrived, and only a miracle can save it. Short of that, prepare for rapid life change now, and hope no one entity invades the US in the next five years. War may break out over seas, and still allow a plan to work, invasion does not.
Sorry BD, there is NO PLAN, only preparation, and you have been spot on with your recommendations.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:54 pm, 7th November 2016Because Democrats are delusional quasi-socialists who vote for criminals like Bill Clinton, Obama, and the Lizard Queen. It’s an insult. Not that I care.
How is identifying an insult a demonstration that I care what that a commenter thinks? If you read my response, my very clear point was that when I ask for a plan and the only answer I get are insults, that tells you something about the people I’m asking for a plan from.
Yup.
Johnny Ringo
Posted at 11:22 am, 18th November 2016Sure, it’s a bit of an alt/right, but it’s also a bit of alt/left as well.
As one example of many, Democrats at one time were against wars. Then Obama gets in, and they seemingly seem to give them wars a pass as long as “their guy” is the one bringing it forth.
Not to mention, I find anyone that attacks Trump over and over and not Hillary, to perhaps be way over-biased by the media. A good independent look at Wikileaks on your free time would reveal much about Hillary, and government in general, that would make you cringe.
(Wikileaks has a perfect track record thus far, government not so much)
The financials are a house of cards. If you don’t tie money to something, like gold, it will be inflated and manipulated at much greater rates.
I refuse to vote for anyone I don’t support. I have followed politics closely all my life, but I only voted for one man, he was principled, and he would have reduced the size of the massive federal government.
His name was Ron Paul and there has not been anyone close to him since.
As for fixing our issues here in the Western World, sometimes you just go too far over the cliff. There will most certainly be a correction as the author here posits. What fills the vacuum, will become the answer to all the questions. Let us all hope it’s much better than it is worse, whatever fills it.
RadLad
Posted at 02:28 am, 1st February 2017My plan is simple: create the Right wing equivalent of what got us in this mess: critical theory – and piggyback it on the alt-right (and nrx, etc) like the Frankfurt school’s ideas piggybacked on hippies. Marcuse’s ideas of liberating Eros – pure, Freudian, sexual impulse- from what he termed “surplus repression” – the psychosocial conditions preventing its expression due to the nature of a dominance based system which causes higher productivity- were what the Left focused on for the past 50 years in second and third wave feminism and the lgbtq movement. Adorno’s ideas about the aesthetic to disrupt the Western culture industry influenced modern art and music. These ideas were made with the express intention of not only demonstrating what it was that prevented a revolution of the proletariat, but in undermining those values and power structures in doing so. This has largely succeeded and is why our culture has degenerated. The solution to this lies in doing the reverse: in exposing and criticizing the conditions that lead to cultural degeneracy and the abandonment of rationality, morality, and truth in favor of emotional impulses; in exposing flaws in the arguments of the original critical theorists, and in doing so in an effective way which- like Marcuse’s Eros and Civilization – can take off with regular people outside of the academic sphere.
To accomplish this goal, we need several resources. The first is Jürgen Habermas, a right wing critical theorist who is still alive and was closely involved with the Frankfurt School, who has and can criticize the flaws of its aftermath effects. We need him as project director of sorts. The next is younger talent: we need between five and ten postgraduates, professors, and PhD students in sociology who are right wing and have passed through prestigious sociology programs at places like Oxford, Cambridge, and Yale. Then we need promoters: writers who can dumb things down enough for your average guy to read it, and marketers who can make this sort of book viral. Finally, we need one man to take the role of “author” for this small book in the background while the longer results of this research is published for academics, who can be public faxing and possesses high enough charisma to woo a crowd. I realize all of this is daunting, but this is necessary.
If we put all these together, and if we can keep the alt-right and alt-lite growing, then we can launch the biggest social and academic coup ever. If we can get the alt-right popular with college students along with this book, professors and other students will be challenged, and eventually, this research will replace left wing critical theory in academia, and due to influence over the common men, it would also take the same subconscious place in politics and in the media that left wing critical theory has. This would lead to a full scale reversal of the effects we have seen, and if sustained, could pave the way for a new, future with stronger, more novel versions of the traditional values of the past.
William
Posted at 08:20 pm, 4th February 2017Lol, it’s funny how scientifically/technologically illiterate you are. Elon Musk didn’t invent any of the things he currently uses for any of his companies. Most of the technology used was developed by government-funded research programs. Musk’s main skill is his creativity and understanding of the engineering as well as the business side, which allows him to develop products and processes at a fraction of the cost. Even with Musk’s skills, he still heavily relies on government funding (from NASA, DoD and clean energy subsidies/tax breaks) to bring his ideas to fruition.
In actuality, most of the technology needed to change the world into paradise already exists (renewable energy, water treatment, genetic engineering, space technology, massive computing power) but the state-capitalist system doesn’t give a fuck about actually bringing these technologies for the good of humanity, and would rather get busy bankrupting the world through silly financial machinations.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:02 pm, 4th February 2017It’s funny how you try strawman me too.
I never said he did.
You get my overall point.
Exactly my point.
Except change “capitalist” to “corporatist.” Read this for more info.
Ed
Posted at 11:26 am, 6th February 2017I rescind my previous statement regarding time frame for planning. Trump is on a tear to repair the US economy. We cannot gauge how much he gets done, or how much the Progressive Left can block, but if a 50% success rate by Trump continues for 4 years, he will get re-elected.
Hence, a solid 10 years is possible to “get it together” until self destruct. But hey, that gives us time to plan better. Maybe Putin will open up a capitalist resort or something!