21 Sep Having Multiple Girlfriends?
-By Caleb Jones
Every once in a while, I get this question from one of you, either in the comments here or in my email. It usually goes something like this:
Hey BD, you say that when you have an OLTR girlfriend or wife, you can’t have any other OLTR’s (girlfriends or wives) or MLTR‘s; you can just fuck buddies. But why not? Why can’t you have multiple, full-on girlfriends? (or wives?) In the Muslim world you can do this, so why not in the Western world? I know so-and-so celebrity who did this and it looks like he’s doing just fine. Why can’t I do it? I’m sure if you’re SUPER Alpha / retrain their brains / make them cum every time you have sex / guy-Disney technique> you could make it work!!!
First off, as always, let’s get our definitions straight before we start talking about this. An OLTR is a serious girlfriend or wife where you can have sex with other women on the side, provided it’s only sex (FB’s) and you’re not actually dating these women (as MLTR’s, OLTR’s, or “monogamous” girlfriends or wives). It’s sexually open, but it’s emotionally exclusive.
If you have an OLTR and you start dating another woman (with romance and feelings, beyond just sex), then it’s not an OLTR per my definition. Instead, your OLTR becomes an MLTR, and now you essentially have two serious MLTR’s. This is fine, and I’ve done this myself before, but a MLTR is not an OLTR. Those are two different things.
The question above is asking why a man can’t have multiple hardcore serious girlfriend or wife relationships concurrently, where you identify both women as your “girlfriend” or “wife” and treat them as such. This is a relationship structure that I don’t endorse, and thus have never discussed. I’m about to explain why.
Is it possible to have two or more concurrent relationships like this? Yes. But whether or not it’s possible isn’t the relevant question, and if that’s the only question you’re asking, you’re not asking the right one.
Instead, you need to ask these three questions:
1. Can you do it? Not a guy you saw on TV or read about on the internet… you.
2. Will the women in your culture put up with it? Not theoretical women you’ve read about who live on the other side of the planet, but the Western women who live right down the street from you. Will they do this?
3. Is it sustainable? How long will it last? If you can’t keep the women around for longer than a year or so, does it really matter if it’s “possible?” I would argue no.
I only teach relationship models that are A) long-term sustainable and B) able to be created by the typical, normal, Western man. Literally nothing I teach in the dating, relationship, or business realms are things that can only be done by men who are extremely good-looking, or extremely rich, or extremely talented, or men of a certain age, race, or social economic class. Getting laid with decently cute women, getting one or two MLTR’s or FB’s, and getting your income to $75,000 per year are all goals that are perfectly achievable by any man in the Western world reading these words (unless you are literally mentally retarded or weigh 350 pounds). If you don’t believe that, you need to stop reading this right now and read this article.
I purposely don’t teach things that only a certain kind of man can do. That decision is deliberate. (To be fair, I am starting to teach specific women and business techniques that only certain kinds of men can do, but I don’t teach those things publicly and probably never will.) Any guy can do this stuff if he wants it bad enough and is willing to put in approximately 1-4 years of work.
Moreover, the relationship models I talk about (FB, MLTR, and OLTR), unlike absolute sexual monogamy, are long-term sustainable. You can date FB’s and MLTR’s for the next 30 years of your life, and it will work. OLTR’s allow for sex on the side, which monogamy does not, and thus, eliminates the problem of cheating which is one of the biggest reasons for many monogamous breakups and divorces. (And no, stats for long-term OLTR success are not available yet. Wait about 10 more years, and you’ll start to see these.)
Therefore, if it can’t be done by the typical guy, and it’s not long-term sustainable, I don’t teach it.
That’s why I will never talk about how to have multiple full-on girlfriends or wives to a Western audience. Not all men can do it, and even if you could do it, it’s not long-term sustainable. One or more of your Western girlfriends/wives are going to get fed up with it and leave pretty damn quick.
How do I know this? Simple; I’ve seen numerous examples of MLTR, OLTR or OLTR-like relationships work for 10+ years. Through my email, I know of hundreds of these examples. Yet, I have never seen even one guy pull off the multiple girlfriend/wife thing for a prolonged period, unless he was one of the exceptions to the rule I’ll cover in a minute.
So if having multiple girlfriends/wives actually “worked” in the Western world, I’d see a hell of a lot more evidence of this. Yet, I see none. So there you go. It doesn’t work and/or it’s not long-term sustainable.
Now before some of you guys freak out, I’ll be clear about the three exceptions to the rule where it can work.
Exception 1: In some parts of the Muslim or African worlds. Yes, in some Muslim and African cultures, this kind of thing can work. As I’ve said many times, if that’s something you really want, feel free to move to the Middle East or Africa, convert to Islam, and go for it. But, if you’re a Western guy who wants to stay in the Western world, it’s not going to work long-term. Sorry.
Exception 2: Isolated Mormon cults. Yes, in some places like rural Utah, there are some weird cases of extreme Mormon dudes having multiple wives. I’ve done a lot of reading and research on this, and damn near 100% of the time, these marriages involve really ugly women and shitloads of regular drama. Does converting to old-school Mormonism and having non-stop drama from a bunch of ugly wives sound fun to you? The man also tends to be wealthy, which leads me to the next exception.
Exception 3: Celebrities (or near-celebrities, or extremely wealthy men). Sometimes guys will point out celebrities or near-celebrities who have pulled something like this off, at least for the moment. Okay, but he’s a celebrity. Are you a celebrity? I’ve said many times the celebrities live in a very different world than you or I do. They can pull things off we can’t. Because, you know, they’re celebrities. Even minor celebrities like Adam Lyons, who is now two years into his marriage to two women, both of whom he’s gotten pregnant. But he’s a celebrity (though an internet one), he has two wives who clearly like the attention they’re getting, only one of them is even mildly attractive, he’s only been doing this for two years, he’s already been divorced already (as usual when PUA guys get monogamously married), and I’m just waiting until one of these women dump his ass, which is guaranteed to happen. He’s playing with fire (again), and he’s a celebrity.
The same goes for money. If you’re worth $10 million plus, live a mansions-yachts-private jets lifestyle, and shower women with money, of course you could perhaps convince two or three of them to become your girlfriends/wives. That’s how Hugh Hefner pulled it off, but be honest… do you seriously think Hugh Hefner would have been able to do that if he had been a plumber?
I’m sure someone like Dan Bilzerian could pull this off with the $100 million he inherited from his daddy, but do you have $100 million to drop on some women to convince them to be your girlfriends/wives? I certainly don’t, and I doubt you do either.
That’s the bottom line here. If you live in the Western world and aren’t a celebrity or super rich, you cannot have multiple full-on girlfriends or wives unless you don’t mind the relationships / marriages not lasting very long. If you want something more long-term and sustainable, in the Western world, in your non-wealthy, non-celebrity state, you’re going to have to use my system instead. (Or go monogamous, but that won’t make you long-term happy unless you’re a very low sex drive beta.)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Disney is bullshit, including guy-Disney.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
Sean
Posted at 05:12h, 21 SeptemberOkay, I understand what you are saying here… two wives does seem very difficult… but what about a serious MLTR that you live with and are pair bonded with; but, you have side low-end MLTR’s that you see no more than once a week? Basically your oltr/fb model except you can go on dates/get romantic with the fb’s (now low-end mltrs instead)…
Ilijas Jung
Posted at 05:17h, 21 SeptemberThis post makes the OLTR model so much more attractive and worth to strive for. Thanks for the high quality content.
-IJ
hey hey
Posted at 05:38h, 21 SeptemberBut in the end what is the point of this? How can this really be called Disney? It’s more like a nightmare. I’m sure there is a lot of drama in such arrangement.
An OLTR fulfills your bonding+sex needs while a FB fulfills your sex needs. Why a man needs more than one hardcore girlfriend at the same time? It’s pure nightmare.
My guess, people who ask these things can’t handle FBs and treat them like girlfriends. Eventually they probably get oneitis(even if they have more than 0ne girls) and are afraid of losing them. Instead of deciding about a main woman they treat most as main. Then they lose the balance and say “ehh I’ll make this work” instead of saying I’ll correct my fuck up, next or downgrade my mistakes and start over.
In the Muslim world the men are very outcome dependent and their lives is full of drama. Still missing the point. The point is freedom and long term happiness. I guess people who ask these things want to find this out the hard way.
paternity tester
Posted at 06:35h, 21 SeptemberWhat if he’s young and thus his girlfriend(s) naturally won’t be hardcore? What if he enjoys cherishing and being cherished by multiple women?
CSR
Posted at 07:10h, 21 SeptemberEven if you are über rich there’s still the time problem. Rich or poor, celebrity or not, you got ~16 hours per day, 7 days per week to do things.
Do you really have the time to seriously deal with two women emotionally? MLTRs are different because dating is just dating, but two (or more) serious girlfriends at the same time looks like a nightmare from day one.
hey hey
Posted at 07:17h, 21 SeptemberYou confuse things. An MLTR is not a girlfriend(the hardcore part is irrelevant here).
If you talk about having multiple MLTRs then you need to remember that you should avoid repeated and many boyfriendish behaviors and avoid seeing her more than once a week. Otherwise you walk dangerously towards a hardcore girlfriend path(and as such making a woman an OLTR). A young guy will do this mistake regularly so he will learn the hard way and as he grows up he will adjust.
The question you ask is the same as “What if someone enjoys cherishing and being cherished by a monogamous girlfriend?”. The answer is: Is this sustainable? Is this low drama? NO. In other words a young guy with such mentality is full of Disney just like the monogamous guy.
@CSR: Exactly! People who insist on such a thing seems to me like people with too much time on their hands. It is not only about women. If you make your life only about women, you are missing the point.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:04h, 21 SeptemberNot just two wives, but two girlfriends as well.
1. You would never live with an MLTR. That would be insane (and high drama).
2. MLTR is not pair-bonding.
Again, actually go try that and let me know how it goes. I predict your live-in woman will move out within 2 years at the very most, amidst very high drama (unless you’re lying to her and hiding all of this, but I’ve addressed that already here, or unless the situation is usual, like she’s depending on you for money or something).
Then have multiple serious MLTR’s. It’s great!
I enjoy that too. Have a few MLTR’s then. It’s great!
Well said and you’re correct. (And again, you can be cherished by multiple MLTR’s. Many times I’ve had multiple MLTR’s who were very in love with me. You don’t have to make them girlfriends.)
Most guys who will try to pursue multiple girlfriends/wives in the Western world, despite what I’ve said today, tend to be high-drama guys anyway, much like the men who defend long-term cheating.
Jamesmtk15
Posted at 10:33h, 21 SeptemberAs usual, great article. Have you heard of Justin Wayne? He said that at one point he had 6 girlfriends. Is that even possible?
JudoJohn
Posted at 10:34h, 21 SeptemberI’d say he’s done plenty of plumbing.
MLTR’s/FB’s FTW!
AlphaOmega
Posted at 10:37h, 21 SeptemberWhat do you think about an MLTR – OLTR hybrid? Like shes not a girlfriend, at least not full one, but we have some romance and I see her more than once a week. I call this half gf (obviously only to myself and some friends, dont tell the women they are half gf to me). I follow the usual MLTR rules except that I do some things you would do only with OLTR with them.
The model is to pull this off is to tell them they are special (but not go for full gf) and refuse to disclose any details about the other women including how often I see them.
So I dont have any single full gf nor do I live together with them, but I have multiple pair bonding.
I have managed to pull this off for nearly half a year with two women, though I was getting regular complaints and mild drama from one of them. I do not have longer data for the moment.
But perhaps I will fully accept your model once I get better at the FB thing. I admit it was also partly because whilst I like the ideas you teach I am not (yet) able to do the first few dates and EFA the way you suggest.
But also for the moment, as long as I have a steady number of women in my life I dont mind if with this method it lasts only a few months. I am also still in the stage where I need to get more XP.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:16h, 21 SeptemberI would need more information on the specifics of those relationships. I think it’s more accurate to say that at one point he was dating 6 different women (rather than 6 “girlfriends”). That’s very possible; I did it once back in 2009-10. I wouldn’t ever want to do it again though; too much work!
What you described in your comment is simply a MLTR you see more than once a week, not a hybrid. And as you said, it resulted in drama, which is what happens when you see FB’s or MLTR’s more than once a week.
As I’ve said many times, if you don’t mind drama, feel free to ignore my advice and do whatever you like.
Gil Galad
Posted at 12:08h, 21 SeptemberEh, that will only work in the really hardcore muslim countries (maybe Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, all places that even typical muslims are disliking more and more, let alone Westerners. And some fucked-up Saharan/subsaharan countries too, the guy who was talking about Ghana must be nodding.) Arab countries a bit more to the West are progressively outlawing polygamy and other stuff, and the women themselves are getting rapidly westernized (though in a very twisted way that keeps retaining muslim concepts, as I alluded in the past).
About multiple MLTRs: can we have some kind of follow-up to “What Are Boyfriend Behaviors” where you define the absolute limit of acceptable behaviors with multiple, non-live-in, high end MLTRs ? If you judge that we already had enough info with that article then I guess I’ll rough it out and find the exact limits with trial and error…
Duke
Posted at 13:41h, 21 SeptemberI can see how many guys can have this issue when dating MLTRs. It’s seems obvious that there is a bit of a struggle with men not being able to keep their MLTRs on the roster for very long. So they rationalize that it’s possible to get serious with multiple women to keep the women from leaving. Avoiding falling into this trap takes a lot of discipline, and it helps to truly not give a fuck if they leave. Guys need to let these women go and not care if they ever come back; then keep track of the ones that eventually return. Once a high percentage start coming back, the guy can be more comfortable with this system and trust that it works.
Jimsax
Posted at 14:02h, 21 SeptemberI’ve treid juggling 3 to 4 GFs more than once, and it never works. It is always fun for about a week or two, then it just becomes hard work. I am now rotating one girl to the front and always being on the lookout for new and interesting women for short flings. If and when one of the flings turns me on more than the one currently in front, I can rotate her to the front and continue on.
I don’t ever commit or tell them they are special though, and when they bring up the exclusive bit, I always brush that off quickly. I normally tell them right up front that I’m not currently in a good place for a mutually exclusive GF and wish I had learned to do that much sooner. It’s amazing how much harder they work for your interests when they think you aren’t that interested in them from the start, and most think they will eventually turn you, so they don’t really move on unless they aren’t getting enough of your attention and find someone that will give them more attention that they really like.
I was surprised at how many women actually go along with this idea of casual sex/dating, but I often have previous flings contact me wanting to see me again. If I’m in the mood, I oblige them of course, but the key is making it crystal clear and sticking to your guns, plus you can’t be the jealous type, because they will date and have sex with other men too.
There will be women that say one thing and do another and cause trouble occasionally, but just move on from them quickly and do not lead them on or see them at all and they usually disappear. But yes, multiple GFs or multiple wives is far too much work and energy and it’s not as much fun as you think when you are actually getting plenty of action to begin with. I am rarely if ever walking around dangerously with a loaded gun these days if you get my drift.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 14:04h, 21 SeptemberWay too general a question, especially since I already wrote that article. If you had a more specific question I could perhaps help.
At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I’m confident most men wanting or asking about multiple girlfriends haven’t even gotten that far. Their desire is more the result of male fantasy mixed with Alpha 1.0 territoriality than it is a result of actual, real-life management problems with MLTR’s.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 15:02h, 21 SeptemberIt was a very mild drama. Actually I never got real drama from a woman, so maybe its also that I dont know how bad it could be.
Did you write an article about some heavy cases of drama? I also like reading about some ridiculous demands and irrational shit women did to laugh at it, or hear about suggestions how to deal with it (its funny until you get it a few times in a row, I am not very patient…).
Gil Galad
Posted at 15:12h, 21 SeptemberOkay. Looking back on the list of bf behaviors you wrote: what about n°7, occasional chocolate or roses, 3-4 times per year (not each, but in total) ? For a high end MLTR I mean.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 16:05h, 21 SeptemberThat’s still drama. The goal (at least for me) is zero or near-zero drama, not very mild drama.
I don’t remember off the top of my head. I’ve written numerous articles about drama (and soft nexting). Just look through the archive.
That’s fine, particularly if you’re doing everything else correctly.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 16:25h, 21 SeptemberI saw in your definition of drama “denying sex for non medical reasons” in one of the articles. But what if she claims medical reasons but lies about it. I suspect my ex gf (monogamous) did this. I told her at the start that one of the only things I would really not tolerate is her saying no to sex, and she never said no directly but towards the end she started to (I think, not 100% sure) make up medical reasons not to. I dont think a woman would do this if she knows I have other women for obvious reasons, but still, I am curious if you had this happen to you and how you would handle it? Is this the usual soft next even if I dont have proof shes lying? Or do I just say that we meet when shes feeling better?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 16:34h, 21 SeptemberYes, that’s worthy of a soft next, as I explained here.
Then that means she’s refusing sex for non-medical reasons and she should be soft nexted.
Correct. Monogamy sucks, as usual.
I’ve never had a woman I was already seeing (FB, MLTR, or OLTR) lie about a medical reason to get out of sex, no. A woman in a relationship with me refusing sex for any reason is a very rare occurrence. Women refusing sex is mostly part of the monogamy world, not the Alpha 2.0 world.
If you don’t have proof she’s lying, you’ll have to make a judgement call based on the evidence and her past behavior.
Jimsax
Posted at 16:43h, 21 September@Alpha, this was one of the things that my ex wife would do, use sex to manipulate me. She wasn’t in the mood, or didn’t feel sexy, etc. If I would do this little thing, or that little thing, she would have more energy or feel more sexy, but no matter what I did, it didn’t really improve our sex life so much.
I finally told her that if it didn’t change, I would find a woman that did want sex, and she thought I was kidding. After about 6 months of me not ever trying to have sex with her any longer, she finally started begging me for sex, but it was too late. I was no longer interested in her and we had drifted apart. All her fault too, but she still blames me for cheating on her.
I told her many, many times I needed more from her and that I needed more sex as well. I’m not talking about anything extravagant or too much sex, just once or twice a week and I would have been happy. We had a great sex life the first 10 years, but it went down hill further every year thereafter and we just drifted apart because I didn’t feel close to her or wanted by her.We had gotten to where she was only interested once a month at best.
I didn’t know how bad it really was until she killed my love for her, because I was extremely attracted to her and in love with her until I just couldn’t take the rejection and lack of intimacy any loner. When I woke up and divorced her, suddenly she couldn’t live without me and couldn’t ever give me enough sex.I could call her right now and she would drive straight over and bang me, but I wouldn’t give her the satisfaction if she paid me. The rejection and lack of empathy for my needs created so much resentment in me that we could never repair it.
I hear these same stories from other men every single day. Women are some screwed up characters, and if they are good looking, many will use it to their advantage and to your disadvantage.
Marty McFly
Posted at 17:03h, 21 SeptemberShould you tolerate your OLTR getting sexual with an ex? Or is that grounds for a soft-next?
AlphaOmega
Posted at 17:04h, 21 September@Jimsax
I am well aware of stories like this, and was well aware of it before my first (and only) monogamous relationship. As such I told her from the start, way before we had decided to make it a relationship, that I would not tolerate that. I did not say what would happen if she did that, I just made it clear it wasn’t something that I would tolerate. She was high sex drive so we agreed this wouldnt be a problem anyway. But after some time later we started to have some problems and then the “medical reasons” started to be more often. Most of our problems were either my fault (I started to get lazy and too secure with her and becoming pussy) or the fault of monogamy (the fact that I did not see future with her because I badly wanted to bang other girls, regardless of how much I was getting from her, but didnt want to cheat…). If I wasnt monogamous with her then it would have probably been all fine. Never the less, she still contacts me once in a while – I guess shes missing something in her new monogamous relationship (well, obviously…). Once in a while I respond to tell her about the things I do. She thinks I do such things because “I havent met the right girl yet”. Its funny how stubborn and ignorant people are about it. So yeah I think its not that your ex wife was bad, its just ignorance, most people just dont get it. I also had an example of a few months back of a girl I did not want to get involved with anymore after a weekend together because of many things but one of them was she was too difficult about sexual stuff and too demanding. Like for example she didnt want to have sex first few nights of the long weekend and needed a lot of convincing, even though we were sleeping in the same bed. WTF, I dont have time for that. She now thinks that I am bad because I had my fun and then dumped her without treating her nice. Quite incredible. But again it doesnt mean shes bad, she just doesnt get it. I tried to explain to people in the past, with a lot of effort but I think they still didn’t get it. And I dont think its stupidity either, some of them were very intelligent. They don’t want to get it. Same goes for men, as you can see by many responses on this blog. I believe you can only accept radically new views if you have gone through some serious cold showers that makes you rethink your life. Like in your case, if you didnt have that negative experience with your ex wife you would probably still insists that classical relationship model is the way to go.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 17:06h, 21 SeptemberWhy would that be an issue? I think I detect some jealousy 😉 I never understood why people make such a huge deal about their partner having someone else, whilst at the same time the idea that their partner had someone before and will have someone after is perfectly fine. It does not make sense to me.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 17:44h, 21 SeptemberThat up to each individual OLTR. You should discuss that with your OLTR if you think it might be an issue. Every OLTR can and does have it’s own, individual ground rules. Just be sure to have the lowest number of these rules as possible.The more rules in a relationship, the more drama the relationship will have.
I wouldn’t give a shit if my OLTR fucked an ex, but I’m outcome independent.
JJ
Posted at 03:21h, 22 SeptemberI have being doing this without any serious problems for more than 10 years now.
Roberto
Posted at 03:56h, 22 SeptemberWell, if she’s lying about having a medical reason so that she can avoid sex, then it’s not a medical reason. The only thing I would say (from my experience, when I was perhaps over-hasty, although the situation was medically confusing as it turned out) is that you need to be pretty sure that she’s lying before you confront her with it – not all medical problems are visible or obvious, even to close friends and sexual partners – and then (by corollary or extension) be almost absolutely certain before you act on that suspicion.
Dawson Stone
Posted at 04:14h, 22 SeptemberFor me the best sex I have ever had is sex with a woman I feel emotionally connected with. FB sex is fine but sex with someone I am romantic with, know and enjoy as a person, etc. is just way, way better. As such, I would much rather have MLTR or OLTR sex whenever possible.
In general I agree that having an OLTR and MLTR(s) is not practical. There is one exception in my experience. I have had a local OLTR and 1 to 2 out-of-town MLTRs. I don’t generally live with an OLTR or this wouldn’t be logistically practical. One can debate if you can have a MLTR with someone that isn’t local which I won’t bother with but in my experience I can see someone 3-5 days a month that doesn’t live in my city, have a great connection, do romantic things with (weekend trip, dinner, etc) and because they aren’t local they never try to escalate to a full blown OLTR since they know that would be impractical. I have seen women this way for 2+ years and really enjoyed it/them.
I think the compromises one makes when they live with an OLTR or have an OLTR marriage are a form of drama that at least for me, doesn’t generally work. But to each his own.
Karel
Posted at 05:16h, 22 SeptemberI personally know a guy who sees two girls every Saturday for threesomes. They also go out together and act as his wingmen.. Which you can guess leads to extraordinary results (due to the social proof they give him.) Of course he also has two other fuckbuddies and has the occasional one night stand.
This to me seems far more preferable than having two “girlfriends”. If you have any advice on setting up the above arrangement, I’d be very interested to hear it. I’ve had a threesome before but it was a one-time thing. I guess it simply comes down to finding a girl who is up for it… I’ve already started screening for bisexuality with new girls.
Marty
Posted at 07:35h, 22 SeptemberLove this topic. So funny. :’) :’)
Guys basically fighting for their social programming and Disney while trying to be Alpha 2 at the same time.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 10:34h, 22 SeptemberIn same cases I’d say its just pure greed. In my case is its partly because I haven’t yet mastered the art of making choices, which inevitably comes when one has transcended attachment, which I have not to be honest.
SP and Disney is when there is The One girl. There is nothing SP or Disney about wanting to have more than one girlfriend.
Another thing is that instead of finding the one person who is perfect you get different things from different people and I dont like the once a week rule. So its about freedom, of course I am not free from consequences and I am adult enough to accept thats what I get if I do that.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:45h, 22 SeptemberYou’ll have to be much more specific about the details of your scenarios if you want to have a discussion about it (assuming you do).
JJ
Posted at 21:35h, 22 September@Blackdragon
Well not sure if it’s possible to summarise it in a comment at the bottom of a blog post but it’s covered in detail in the videos here which you still have access to.
I guess the key is to help them upgrade from their redundant and damaging social programming around the subject – which I call Sex 2.0 – to 3.0
Framing the discussion is key (module 4) as is understanding the meaning of love (module 1)
Simply telling a woman that you don’t want to be exclusive is useless because they will just assume that you don’t like them enough or the you are a player or commitment-phobe or some other SP response.
Instead I make it clear that they are being offered an upgrade – 3.0
To use a money related metaphor, 2.0 is only designed for spending and gambling in relationships – not investing.
Fuck buddy is a spender pattern which is why I don’t do it. I am an investor.
Conventional 2.0 BF / GF or husband / wife is a gambler pattern because it’s predicated on a bet. The bet that you will successfully remain exclusive for life.
I am not a gambler either. I am an investor. 3.0 allows you to invest in relationships on a long term basis. Not spend or gamble on them.
Conventional 2.0 BF / GF or husband / wife is a gambler pattern actually disguised as an investor pattern which is a cruel trick that 2.0 society pulls on people.
I will expand on this more in my next video course which is not out yet.
Steve
Posted at 00:21h, 23 SeptemberI actually do know up close an African guy who does have this relationship type for many years. And he’s no superstar. Nor is he rich. But I don’t understand what a median salary here can get you in Africa. Not South Africa mind you, that’s been westernized from what I’ve been told. He’s how he does it. The purchasing power is many times bigger there. Here you can get an old house, decent car. But there the same money will get you the equivalent of an LA celebrity. Like I said, I don’t want to do a few years of research and study on non-westernized Africa. Put he’s got multiple large ass vehicles, throwing large parties lots of ppl alcohol wine great food, a pretty cool fun lifestyle. Mind you the vehicles are not 2017 models, neither is the furniture in his house, nor is his closet full of the latest fashion fads of 2017 from paris and new york. In other words, if he had his African lifestyle in LA you would all say he is the shit and living the life. But he can’t really do it in the USA, he has a pretty okay life in USA.
It has something to do with the purchasing power of USA money vs African money. The exchange rate. You want it, you do your own years of traveling research there yourself. In USA there is only one way to get it, and that’s by having millions to your name.
paternity tester
Posted at 06:28h, 23 SeptemberI have looked up J.J’s website and it looks promising, however nowhere as promising as BD’s, simply judging by the quality of the free stuff. I am looking to watch the videos soon though.
Ramoant
Posted at 07:25h, 23 SeptemberYeah. Me too ?
paternity tester
Posted at 07:47h, 23 SeptemberHonestly I wish these weren’t videos but texts so I could skip parts that I already know and don’t care about to get told the same thing that I know.
Khali
Posted at 11:12h, 23 SeptemberThe real power for seeing a woman once a week communicate that she has no say in what you do, when you do and with whom… which in return gives the guy to power to have any type of relationships he wants.
Once someone has a live-in girlfriend, I don’t think any form of other relationship ( FB, MLTR) is sustainable in the long term. There is too much power shift in the woman’s direction.
I personally prefer having 2 -3 MTLRs, and the top 2 have lasted 3 Years up to date. I don’t see it as ‘work’ I enjoy spending time with both of them. The 3rd MLTR spot has a faster turn around and tend to average between 3 and 6 months
However, there are a limited set of hours in a week, so time wise, face to face communication all women combined is limited to a maximum of 4 nights / per week… on average it’s mostly 3 nights. That allows me to spend my other nights doing non female related activities.
So to the question can one have multiple girl friends I would say Yes, however desire to want such a lifestyle , perfect time management and having sub par relationship management skills are crucial
AlphaOmega
Posted at 11:16h, 23 SeptemberYeah it looks like JJ is beginning but the ideas seem simillar but a bit different. Its nice to see that there are more such things. It gives hope that maybe the society is starting to change and accept it when there are more people with such ideas.
Yes, I second that. Parts of the videos are really annoying especially when he talks slowly and not much happens on screen – thats always bad for the attention span of the viewer. Also articles are better for sharing and showing to others rather then videos. The video makes me think of those dodgy PUA websites like “the girlfriend activation system” that made me never want to be interested in manosphere.
Overall I think JJ has many good ideas but the presentation and style needs a lot of tuning. I havent finished watching the video yet and im still interested to see the rest, though so far the first half was only things I know already or agree with already.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 11:22h, 23 SeptemberYes I agree, unless you have some very special situation such as being very rich and thus having multiple homes for example.
This is also related to your sexdrive. If yours is average then I think this is fine, but for a high sex drive like mine I would need an absolute bare minimum of 5 to guarantee I can have it once a day (on average) and that number gets pretty hard to keep track of and handle pretty fast (even to keep track of them in my mind…). So this is one of the main reasons why I dont like the once a week rule.
In the end its always a question of: what are you prepared to sacrifice. In my case some drama/initial trickery etc is a small price to get what I want (satisfaction) since thats the whole point of this.
Roberto
Posted at 12:40h, 23 SeptemberI know what you mean. I do think the once-a-week rule is a sensible one, however, although I don’t always follow it slavishly, but overall I do –now – and I no longer allow more than once-a-week meetings to become an established norm. Once you start seeing a FB more than once a week it’s very easy for the relationship to change, certainly in her mind but also in mine.
On that train of thought, in my experience (for what that’s worth) the most important thing with FBs is never, ever to allow the idea to develop that the relationship is anything more than what it is; so, never staying over at a FB’s place and never doing social things with her that are not related to sex are more important (I’d say) than strictly never hooking up for sex more than once a week. I’m also learning to be ruthless in dropping a FB (soft-nexting, I guess BD would say) as soon as I sense that she is wanting or expecting more. This can take will-power and often seems counter-intuitive if the sex is regular and good. But in the long run I think it’s worth it. Often the relationship is resumed after a time, sometimes after a short time.
For me, at the moment, an MLTR and two or three regular FBs is about right, and a roster of others is good too. I also do ONSs from time to time, but that is more like icing on the cake and usually these days when I’m travelling for work, and I don’t see it as a main source of sex but it’s fun.
Having an MLTR is good for social events, weekends away, etc etc, and we trust each other so that we can usually fuck bareback, which is important to me.
AlphaOmega, as you say, “in the end it’s always a question of: what are you prepared to sacrifice.” I guess I have sex about five days a week, on average, which is enough to keep me off the streets as it were. But it does take a lot of work. Is it worth it? For me it is. There would be ways to get more, but would that work in the long term. I’m not so sure. Of course, my priorities might change with time, but for now it’s OK.
Roberto
Posted at 12:41h, 23 SeptemberBD, you might have addressed this many times, but what are your views of an ex-girlfriend becoming a fuck buddy? An ex (from a few years ago) is suggesting it, and it’s tempting, but the whole idea rings alarm bells for me. Any thoughts from anyone else too would be welcome.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 13:37h, 23 SeptemberWhats the worst that could happen? You just said that you are good at making sure the women dont think its more than it is and that you are also able to soft next easily. So I cant see how this could lead to any problem for you. Unless you are afraid of your emotions (since its an ex) – in which case I would say you should definitely do it. Most people are way too pussy about their emotions, confronting them is good.
I had for quite a long time an ex who kept messaging me (and she still does sometimes) though she never makes her intention clear (of course its clear), but she doesnt want to meet 1-1, probably scared because she knows what she wants to happen but thinks she shouldnt (oh isnt monogamy fun), which is fine because I dont really want her anymore anyway… so just make sure shes not just messing around. If she actually comes and sleeps with you (and you want) then perfect.
I am with BD on this one. I totally agree that its not worth it from time management point of view, but if it came easy id go for it of course. But if I had to work for it then not.
Not at all will power or counter intuitive. Its a question of abundancy/scarcity. If you know you have others and or are able to get others quickly then you learn pretty fast to not make a big deal out of things and to not take any shit from women. Sometimes I am in a situation when it seems risky but I have seen that taking risks is good, it feels good to say no to a woman and its also about being able to accept consequences and that sometimes things dont work out – that is always very important.
Yes but I dont see that as a problem, as long as I feel I have control, which is easy when there are other women. Many women these days even think openly that as long as you didnt discuss what the relationship is exactly then the other one is free to do what they want. I have to admit for me its also that I like the attention, especially if I like the girl, and it makes me happy to receive a lot of messages and requests for meetings/attention from the girls.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:46h, 24 SeptemberGo right head. Just make sure to keep your frame and soft next her ass as soon as she starts any drama or betaization. Any “alarm bells” you’re hearing represent your own inability to do this, not anything on her end.
LionKing
Posted at 14:52h, 25 SeptemberBD, you cleverly forgot to mention your TMM years (I read your axe murderer article). You can argue you were not Alpha 2.0 yet. So, did it happen to you back then?
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 17:10h, 25 SeptemberTo all you guys supporting the concept of “multiple girlfriends:” Are your girlfriends also allowed to have multiple boyfriends? If so, are those boyfriends also allowed to have multiple girlfriends? If so, are those girlfriends also allowed to have multiple boyfriends? If so…..
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 17:23h, 25 SeptemberIn my experience, roughly 98 percent of men who support this “multiple girlfriends” model are either needy betas or pro-prostitution omegas.
First, there’s the needy beta who gets emotionally attached to every woman he sleeps with. He’s like a Disney woman when it comes to casual sex. So if his girlfriend has a threesome with him and another woman, he must immediately make that other woman his girlfriend also due to his neediness and male ASD.
Second, there’s the pro-hooker omega who claims he has multiple girlfriends, but they are really actresses who are just fucking him for his money. He knows this and doesn’t care because, for him, sex need not be genuine. His so called “girlfriends” are really just gold diggers and literal asexual whores from sites like “seeking arrangement” and other places in which sex is sold in a professional capacity.
The remaining two percent of men who have multiple girlfriends are genuinely poly and alpha. But such men barely exist. I’ve seen some of them (as well as some genuinely polyamorous women), but they are unicorns whose brains are wired very differently from the rest of us. Most likely, you’re dealing with one of the above two.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 17:50h, 25 SeptemberOf course it did. Every week. Monogamy sucks. So does being a beta, which is what I was.
jimsax
Posted at 08:16h, 26 SeptemberTo all you guys supporting the concept of “multiple girlfriends:” Are your girlfriends also allowed to have multiple boyfriends? If so, are those boyfriends also allowed to have multiple girlfriends? If so, are those girlfriends also allowed to have multiple boyfriends? If so…..
If you are having fun and content and truly not affected by what these women do when not with you, then who cares? I mean if you don’t care outside of your own needs being met, then does it matter? Just practice safe sex for certain and let them do whatever when they aren’t with you.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 09:39h, 26 SeptemberBased on your elaborations I am clearly neither. I even encouraged some girls in the past that they can get another guy if they want to, and I am not that keen on prostitution, though if I was loaded with some big money I’d prob make things easier for myself and just get some arrangement girls as well.
Though I do have many Omega traits, hence the name; I think I am Alpha also because I am definitely not submissive, though I admit to be still far from 2.0, but I am progressing gradually.
And? What’s your point? In a free society everyone can do what they want. People mainly have problems with this because of disturbing emotions such as pride or jealousy, but you have to realise that the ego is the real enemy.
Roberto
Posted at 07:19h, 27 SeptemberThanks, BD and AlphaOmega. You’re right, of course. In fact, this ex- and I met up yesterday evening. Interestingly, she was obviously aching for it. She gave every indication of understanding the “rules” too, and after all it was her idea. If I need to, I just need to “soft next” her, though I think this is one instance where the once-a-week rule will definitely apply. But from my point of view, although the sex was very good, as before, I can’t say that the meeting has lit up any desire to get back together with her.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 14:21h, 27 SeptemberI get it now. You probably are concerned about getting some mixed up feelings since its an ex. Just realise that feelings change all the time and so that means they dont have any substance or lasting nature. Then you will see that its not a big deal.
Steve
Posted at 16:39h, 28 SeptemberTimely picture of Hef for this article. I wonder if his life was as good as he portrayed it to be? It looked pretty good from the outside.