What “Successful” Old Age Looks Like
He was, perhaps, in his early seventies. Big guy. Broadly built like me but taller, well over six foot. Shaved head. Friendly, craggy face. Big pot belly. Clearly retired by the look of his dumpy, out of date clothing. He had the body language and demeanor of a man who was once Alpha long ago but had slowly surrendered to beta male status as he moved into old age, much like my own father.
We sat in the waiting room at the Red Cross donation center. I donate blood twice a year to keep my red blood cell count at healthy levels. He was probably donating blood just to be a nice person. Or perhaps he was there under his doctor’s orders to help keep his blood thin. You never know.
He looked across at me and read my name off the stupid name tag the Red Cross forces you to wear as you give blood. I was reading some economics articles on my phone when he struck up the conversation.
“The last time I heard your name,” he said, “Was in that Robert Redford movie where he was a mountain man and adopted that kid.”
“An old movie or a recent one?” I asked, looking up from my phone, “A Redford movie means it probably was an old one.” Robert Redford was a little before my time, but I knew enough about him to know I was probably too young to see whatever movie he was talking about.
“Oh no,” he said, “Just about 20 years ago.”
“Like the nineties?”
“Maybe. Just look it up in your phone.”
Being a movie nerd, my curiosity was piqued. I tapped the Android search app and spoke into my phone, “Robert Redford mountain man.”
His eyes widened. He had probably forgotten that you can actually talk to your phone these days.
In about one second, my phone reported the film Jeremiah Johnson.
“Jeremiah Johnson,” I said.
“Yeah!” he cried, “That’s it! The little boy in that movie was named Caleb.”
“1972,” I said.
“What?” he cried, genuinely shocked, “That’s when it came out?”
“Yep. That’s what it says. December, 1972.”
“Jesus,” he said, his face contorted, “I sometimes forget how old I am. I’m closer to the grave than the cradle these days.”
“Statistically I’m exactly halfway there,” I said, smiling.
“No you’re not. You’re a young buck.”
“I’m older than I look. I’m 44. As a matter of fact, 1972 was the year I was born.”
“Jesus,” he said again, looking at me shocked, “You look much younger than that.”
I’m accustomed to people thinking I’m younger than I actually am when they first meet me. Just a few weeks prior, after moving into my new house, both the movers and my new next door neighbor thought my 18 year-old daughter was my girlfriend.
“Well, I’m old enough to know who Robert Redford is,” I said, still smiling.
“Good movies to watch with the wife,” he said, “You married?”
“No,” I said, “I’m not big on the concept.”
Had this been 10 or 20 years ago, he would have snorted and told me I was being immature, tried to convince me that marriage was great, and that I was missing out. But today, Western civilization has turned an irreversible corner, and even normal, everyday people deeply seeped in Societal Programming can’t ignore the obvious facts in front of them.
So instead of lecturing me, he looked slightly downward and nodded slowly. “Yeah,” he said quietly, “That was a different thing for my generation than it is for yours.”
“Very,” I said. It’s funny when I have conversations with strangers like this. They have no idea who they’re talking to.
“You’ve got to have a girlfriend then,” he said, confident in his assumption and perking back up.
“Normally I’m not big on that either,” I said, “But since I’m halfway to the grave, I have one now, yeah.” I smiled to make sure my sarcasm was being conveyed. I also made sure to use the term “girlfriend” instead of “OLTR” which would just create a conversation I wasn’t interested in having.
“Well, good. Someone to watch movies with.”
“We watch a lot of movies. Almost every weekend.” It was the truth.
“The wife and I have been watching movies for almost 50 years. She’s a little picky though. She doesn’t like the shoot-em-up ones.”
“You can still watch the shoot-em-up ones by yourself, or with buddies,” I said, leaning forward and in a stronger tone of voice than I had been using.
“Yeah, but it’s not the same,” he said, his body language caving inward slightly.
Confirmed. This was a former Alpha turned submissive beta by almost 50 years of monogamy. That’s how it works. If you look carefully, you can see the tiny, crushed Alpha Male in these men’s eyes. The shiny glint is still there…but that’s all that remains.
Ten years ago I would have been a little upset, and would have told him to man up and take charge. If he was 30 or 40, I probably would have. But I’m older and wiser now, and having observed old men like my dad and older clients and co-workers go through this, I knew it would have been a waste of time. It would have just made him feel less. Hell, this guy was probably north of 70 years old. Whatever path he’s on, he’s on. There’s no changing it at this point. He probably doesn’t even care.
So I simply replied, “Yeah, I know what you mean.”
He slowly pulled out his wallet, withdrew a picture with pride, and showed it to me. “My wife, and my two daughters.”
I tried not to smile, because it showed exactly what I expected. A short, chubby, homely-looking wife with Coke bottle glasses, two intense looking over-33 women, and himself with a beaming grin, a picture taken perhaps ten years ago. He was the happiest person in the picture; all three women bore stiff, unfriendly smiles.
“You look very happy there,” I said, trying to find something to compliment without lying.
“It was my birthday,” he said, shrugging, “I get whatever I can take these days.” With a sad smile, putting the picture back in his wallet, he asked, “You have kids?”
“Two,” I said, “A boy and a girl.” I pulled out my phone and showed him individual pictures of each. One was my daughter on one of our recent trips to Vegas. The other was a picture of my son dressed in a suit and tie right before a job interview. Both of these were pictures I specifically kept in my phone to show people when they asked about my kids, since before that I was making people uncomfortable when I told them I didn’t have any pictures of my kids in my phone.
He complimented both. He didn’t react to my son being black, which was a nice plus, considering the guy’s likely generational views on such things.
“What about your lady?” he asked.
I paused, hesitated, and considered, but then figured what the hell and said, “Hang on.” I smiled slightly, knowing what was coming. I scrolled through a small pile of women pics I had on my phone, found her, and showed it to him. It was just a selfie she had taken in her car on the way home from work one day.
“Oh my god!” he said, staring bug-eyed at the pic of the striking, platinum blonde, high cheek boned, porcelain skinned beauty who could easily be a model, “You must be doing something right.”
“I try,” I said, shrugging. If he were 30 years younger, I would have told him to check out my blog and books, but again, with a married, monogamous man this age, there’d be no point. He’d just feel either sad or angry.
“Janice was a looker too, back when we were younger,” he said, “We were married by a river. That kind of thing was simpler back then. Nowadays everything has to be a big production, like those Bachelor shows.”
“Tell me about it,” I said, nodding in genuine agreement, “That crap just makes it more expensive for the rest of us.”
“Yeah,” he said, nodding, “Things are different today.”
They called my name. I put my phone away and rose. I asked for his name. It was Jonathan. I wished him well, shook his hand, and moved into the clinic.
Just before rounding the corner, I took one quick look back at him. A lonely, chubby old man, slumped in his chair, staring down at the floor. Still with some kindness, but his passion, freedom, masculinity, drive and joy mostly long gone. His biggest sources of happiness were far in the distant past.
This is the man I would have ended up as if I had never gotten divorced so many years ago. I shuddered.
This is the old man that most younger men aspire to be someday, including those in the manosphere who call themselves red pill.
This is the man society considers a success.
I walk a different path.
Thank goodness.
Edit/Update: Looks like many of you misunderstood the quotes and sarcasm in the title of this post. If you’re looking for what really is the successful way to get old, read the article I wrote about that here.
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Yeah, I see that all around me, but I have to tell you as an unattacted Man north of 60, one has few Alpha peers to associate with at my age. Post 40 women are a barrel of snakes, so after a while one switches off dealing with them in any way, it’s simply not worth the aggravation. Women under that age that will date a guy 60+ are few and far between…so you end up being the “Lone Wolf” everywhere you go. I’m okay with it, but most men simply can’t do it, hence our four times higher rate of suicide over that of women.
Great post BD –
Interesting how time and character shape . . and it (if we’re fortunate) gives a slight window of opportunity to re-shape, re-direct our trajectory. Thank you for your writing.
And your readers are grateful for the path you have blazed for the rest to follow. I shudder to think what I would have become, not knowing your material.
Aww poor old man.
Honestly is very hard to find a really happy old man, which is sad.
I don´t even know what else to comment, I liked this entry a lot tho.
Keep it up, BD!
Good article BD. In your opinion, though, what would a 70 year old alpha male be like? Obviously he would have an attitude that he would do whatever he wants. But unless a man like him (like the one in the picture) has a lot of money, I would think that he would have some difficulty appealing to even 50-60 year old women. Most of his friends would likely be beta and unable to come out and play. I agree that living with an unhappy wife might not be the way to go, but to what exactly could a man like that aspire? Thanks.
Jarod
Your son is black? I thought your wife was a blonde barbie. Not that it really matters haha
What Jarod said. 🙂
I think I’ll settle down when I start to get too old. I am also kinda baby faced and am in great shape so I think I should be fine until 60. I’ll probably go to a third world country and get a long-term girlfriend or two.
I can’t, really, I can’t not feel sorry for that old man. Ok, he was trapped in the lie of the monogamous married life but still he stuck against all the odds. Ok, it’s was Social Programming (OMG, he is the [still] living example of what SP does to us) but, as you say it is pointless to show him the truth at his age, at least show him respect for a job “well done” (ok, ok, SP-way).
These showings of respect can be the last strays of satisfaction he could get before he passes away. Help the old men to feel again some pride, help them to see themselves a little Alpha again. After all, he was a present father for his daughters, something not so common in these times.
But it’s still better then nothing.
You’d be surprised how many don’t even get that.
An “old man” has Casey Anthony. And an old man could get Jodi
Arias. Those old men are “happy campers.” The are delerious with joy.
I never had a happy day in my life.
Being old sucks in general. For everyone. With the possible exception of old people who have younger people listening to their wisdom, and that too is different today.
So where do you see yourself when you’re 65+ BD?
Funny timing for this post — I see in the news today is Robert Redford’s 80th birthday. For many of us, RR is one of the famous people who have been ‘part of the scenery’ since we were kids — along with Clint Eastwood, Warren Beatty, Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney… and that’s just a few who are still alive today. With those guys, one almost expects them to be around (still in the news maybe) for the rest of your life. So when they die, it’s a jolting reminder of mortality; human life span being finite.
As for the old man in this post, seeing old people surrender to undesirable conditions can be partly a matter of long term cumulative exhaustion. With exhaustion often comes fear, and fear seems to be a key factor in many bad choices (like people who got married largely due to their fear of facing life single). Maybe we won’t really understand what it’s like to be in that old man’s shoes until we are there ourselves.
That old man thought the old Robert Redford movie came out maybe 20 years ago when really it came out 44 years ago. That’s a common mental error as people get older (‘That was HOW many years ago?!?’). It shows that years seem to go by faster as you age, because each new year is a smaller & smaller percentage of your previous life experience.
I misread your title, and missed the sarcasm quotes. I was kind of hoping for an article to give me a picture of what to aspire to when I get to be Jonathan’s age. The reality is that as you hit his age your body does decline and you just aren’t as physically capable as you would be. Of course there are lots of things to do to stave off the decline, but time is a relentless bitch.
I’d love to read an article with the same title sans quotes.
I don’t have a wife. If you’re referring to the woman I divorced 10 years ago, yes, she was a blonde barbie. My son was her biological son from a prior relationship that I adopted and raised as my own from when he was 5 years old.
Incorrect. John McAfee, Brian Tracy, Jim Rodgers, Clint Eastwood, and so many other men who are not public figures are all over age 70 and live fantastic, exciting, happy, motivational lives.
How you are when you’re old is up to you. No one is putting a gun to your head forcing you to be a depressed sad sack when you’re old. Stop with the pathetic loser excuses, BlindIo.
You mean all those physically incapable men over 70 like Patrick Stewart, Sylvester Stallone, Harrison Ford, Paul McCartney, Sidney Poitier, Dick Van Dyke, etc, etc, etc?
Excuses.
Read what I just said to BlindIo.
You guys seem pretty interested in this topic so I’ll write up a blog post about it next week or the week after. (I know exactly where I’ll be when I’m 70, and I can’t wait!)
Until I write that blog post though, you guys can read this.
Actually, now that I’ve read this article, I think it answers most of you guys’ questions. If it doesn’t, let me know and I’ll write a follow-up post.
@BlindIO
Getting older does not have to suck IF you take care of yourself. People let their health go to shit usually starting in middle age and have all sorts of issues later. Maintain a proper nutrition and exercise regimen and you’ll be ok. Steer clear of smoking, too much sun exposure and binge drinking too.
It obviously takes some work and effort but the payoff is huge. I’m 38 and already see my married friends looking like 3 day old shit-they are around the same age. They gave up taking care of themselves and look fatter every time I see them(which is rare). I look and feel better now than I did at 28 because I started taking my health much more seriously after 35.
I always feel a little sadness when I meet these guys. You can tell there’s still a little alpha left in them, but they’ve come to accept the decisions they made and learned to live with them.
I used to worry about this a lot. But exposure to real-life Alpha 2.0s over time has changed that:
Example #1: On a trip to Vegas last year, I met a 24 year-old model from New York. She had a boyfriend, and it wasn’t happening for me, but nevertheless things got interesting when she told me that her bf was older. She seemed embarrassed about it. When I told her that I had experience dating younger women, and that I wouldn’t judge her, her attitude shifted from embarrassment to curiosity.
Her: “How old is your girlfriend?”
Me: “Well, she’s not my girlfriend 😉 But we have an age difference of 22 years. How old is your boyfriend?”
Her: “60”.
He had me beat. 26 years. What a stud. And this was a full-on old guy, complete with wrinkles and a full head of white hair.
Example #2: I’m on a date with a pretty South American girl. Things are going well. We’re talking about her father, and she says:
Her: “Oh yeah, my dad is a real bastard. I don’t think he’s ever going to get married again.”
Me: “Why not?”
Her: “At this point, why should he? He’s living with two college girls now, he has no incentive to settle anymore. He’s never going to change.”
Me: “How old is he?”
Her: “65.”
These days, when I think about getting older, I no longer worry about being alone. Instead, I think about how fucking awesome these 60 year-old guys are, and further commit myself towards seeking the life that makes me happy. These men prove not only that it can be done, but that they are more than happy to talk about it with you if you are friendly and open-minded and NOT JUDGY.
It’s all a roll of the dice, at 61 I’m 6’2″ @ 180lbs 15% BF. I’ve been lucky and maintained my health by watching what I eat, exercising everyday and always trying to keep my life interesting. Others I’ve known did the same, but were struck down by disease or unforseen hazards years ago. Starting to look after your health early (Mid 20’s) is key if you want to maintain your testosterone, looks and strength.
I follow what Clint Eastwood said in a recent interview when asked how he keeps going at 86, he said, “You sometime wake up in the morning all creaky, but you just walk it off…I don’t let the Old man in..”
You guys are missing one crucial component to your old guy dreams. It only works in a degenerate society. Before then there will likely be a war, and assuming we survive it (honestly unlikely as things stand) odds are good that society will be reformed once again.
Fantastic and accurate quote. Stolen.
Do you like making constant excuses and being depressed?
BD, do you have any plans “in a corner of your mind” for the possibility of rejuvenation therapies ? I know it’s a very bad thing to get one’s hopes up, and even I, still months away from turning 25, do not allow myself to assume I’ll witness that, but it’s a possibility. Do you still have those ‘activate cybercock’ dreams ? xD
Personally I will most certainly try to save money to afford this kind of thing, like 30 years from now.
“I don’t let the old man in” works for me… I kick that old bastard in the balls every morning, pop his intermittent fasted ass on a bike for 10 miles of HIT sprints before his morning coffee…http://menastery.com/one-thing-just-one-thing-part-two/
Not an argument. Which I will take to mean that you agree.
Really good post. It resonated with me.
Yes, and I discussed that in my linked article above. For example, you should do your best to harvest your stem cells as soon as you can afford to do so, so they can be used later when you’re older to rejuvenate your skin.
Beyond that, everything else is out of your control. Just have to wait until smarter people invent the new stuff. But yes, in the next few decades there will be some incredible breakthroughs, making old people look pretty much as young as you like.
In 50 years it will be like the movie In Time, where everyone looks 25 years old. (I’ll still probably look 37 though, since I think men look better at that age.)
Fuck yeah. Now we’re talkin’
Annnnnnd this my last response to you, ever. Like you seriously don’t know my opinion on that.
All you do is bitch, complain, misquote me, put words in my mouth, and make a constant stream of very stupid excuses about how horrible and hopeless everything is. If other commenters want to keep talking to you they’re welcome to do so, but I’m done. You’re hopeless.
No, that really was not an argument. Commenting on the state of society and likely future events is not “making excuses”, they are the conditions we live under. And as usual you ignore the parts you don’t like and focus on the parts you think makes me look stupid with emotional rebuttals.
But more importantly, you keep talking about long term happiness. How happy do you think you will be at 70 watching your kids and possibly grandkids have to live in a society even worse than this one, assuming we don’t have a big cleansing war by that time?
Some pretty optimistic views on here about being an old guy, I think alot of it is an attempt to cope with an unfortunate truth, I’m a bit more skeptical and I just read the old alpha article you linked BD, and while I can agree to some extent, I still think it’s rather optimistic.
One thing alot of guys here are forgetting is that we are part of an aging population in the west. Birth rates are dropping (or have already dropped) below replacement levels. This means that as the years go on, there are fewer and fewer young women as a percentage of the total population. Which means that as we age, the competition for these 18-40yo women will get tougher and tougher, and the SMV required to compete for them will get higher and higher. This would not be the case if most people were still having 4+ kids.
I just think you’re underestimating what it’s going to be like for a guy who’s in his 50’s in 20 years time vs what it’s like for a guy in his 50’s now.
One unknown variable you mention is technology. Yes, that might help things considerably, realistic sex bots or VR sex for example may drastically increase supply of sex (from hot young hotties) in the market, helping to satiate some of the increasing demand an aging population creates, but it’s very much an unknown variable, we don’t know where the technology will be at when we’re in our 50’s or 60’s. Even if you’re not interested in the bots or VR it’ll make it easier to get real women, as demand for them will decrease.
@donnie demarco
Yeah 60yo ‘boyfriend’… 24 yo model from NYC in Vegas lol. How did they meet? What does he do for a living? What sort of shoes was she wearing, were they Loubs? etc. 9/10 times guys like that are paying, or at the very least gifting them very expensive gifts. These girls are easy to spot, and I’ve been to NYC and Vegas myself and had the NYC fasion models chase me… They know I’m wealthy (for my age) and it’s obvious what they’re after.
Same with the 65yo living with 2 college girls, lol, let’s not be naive here. Who do you think is paying for ALL their living expenses, including board, and is probably also paying them an allowance or even their tuition costs?
I don’t see a problem with any of that at all, I think it’s great, but I do think we’ll be paying alot more for it by the time we’re that age, see my above point. Realistically we’re going to have to be multi-millionaires to live like that (also remember inflation).
The other alternative is to move to the 3rd world, especially a country with a non aging population. Where your wealth/status gets a huge boost anyway and thus your SMV relative to local men will be much higher.
That’s because, based on your past comments, your views regarding men/women relations are quite alarmist and pessimistic.
That is a societal/macro problem which will definitely affect betas, which I know is a big concern to you (and not to me), but this kind of thing won’t affect the individual Alpha, particularly the individual 50+ Alpha who follows Alpha 2.0 advice (have a great income, be self-employed, don’t have debt, don’t get monogamous, keep your health and appearance at optimal levels for your age, have decent game / confidence / outcome independence, ideally don’t live in the Western world, etc). A 50+ guy doing those things in 20 years is going to have no problem getting laid with young hotties whenever and wherever he wants. None. (Even if he chooses to go the sugar daddy route, which he will easily be able to afford.)
Yep. I didn’t even mention that, and it’s huge. This will happen in our lifetimes. That 50+ beta you’re worried about may not even have a problem getting laid after all. 🙂
I wished I shared your optimism. The way I see it a ‘great’ income will be $1m+ a year by then, skyrocketing real estate prices (especially here where the average is now $800k for a very modest home) means the chance of having no debt becomes slimmer and slimmer.
The problem is, I look at how hard I have to work and how much time and effort I have to invest NOW in the west as quite a good looking, early 30’s millionaire just to get young hotties (with the notable exception of cities where the demographics are in my favor like NYC), and I question how hard I’ll have to be working (or how rich I’ll have to be to compensate) when I’m in my 50’s and the supply of young hotties has shrunk further and my SMV is lower than it is now (unless I’m very rich) to achieve the same results.
Yes, the 3rd world is a potential option, and probably our life raft.
I guess I’ll find out in 20 years.
You married a single mother and adopted her child huh? To be honest, you must the be like like the biggest loser in the past. I cant believe that guy and the guy who writes this blog is the same. You must have come a long way. If you can change, literally anybody can change.
Thanks for the article BD. Hope you’re still writing this blog 10-20 years later, would be nice to have a real life example of an old alpha who shares his knowledge.
offtopic – you mentioned you have an introverted personality, INTJ perhaps, and you envied your son who is naturally the life of the party, while you had to work to become a social guy at gatherings.
I did the personality test and got the same intj, I make friends laugh, can easily cold approach girls on the street, but in large groups I’m introverted and definitely not the life of the party.
how do you become one? Since you went through the process to become one, I assume you can give good advice vs a natural who is just born with it. A post on that would be very appreciated!
(Also stolen by me! And every one else who read it I imagine 🙂 )
What I love about these blogs is that how a few words can really make all the difference. I’m 62 now and yes, things are slowing down a bit. But I have always gone for a walk the minute I got up. I wasn’t really conscious of what I was doing; it just evolved. But to see it in light of Clint Eastwood’s comments on “waking up a bit creaky” – it just shoved the physical benefits up the scale a bit by applying a bit of “mind” to it.
I have seen a lot of pessimism here lately. For those of you who think that “mind over matter” or “positive thinking” are bollocks; why don’t you just try it now and again. The next time you are pissed off with life or the future, go for a walk!!! It’s free! It won’t kill you and you WILL feel better afterwards.
And you don’t need a fortune to live life to the full when older. What you need is to be debt free as soon as you can.
I’ve never been a loser, but I was definitely a beta, no question about it. And we’re talking about something that happened literally 20 years ago, so there’s that.
That being said, I have no problem getting into relationships with single mothers per se.
I guarantee I’ll be writing this blog until 2024 (which means I’ll be 52). After that, no promises.
I will always write, for the rest of my life. I just can’t promise I’ll be writing about this stuff after 2024.
Yes. I’m very INTJ.
I’m exactly the same. I can make friends laugh, no problem. And I never had trouble with daygame. But in large groups I’m never the life of the party and have no desire to be one. I’d much rather leave the party with the prettiest girl and go have sex with her somewhere far away from the noise. I’m serious.
As I said, I never became the “life of the party,” so I can’t teach you how to do that. Instead, I became very socially comfortable, skilled, and calibrated to the point where you can’t tell I’m an introvert if you met me. That I can talk about. I’ll add it to the topic list for a future post.
As I’ve said before, about 60% of the manosphere are men who are angry and want to be angry. (Just look at BlindIo.) They won’t take your advice. Or mine. They don’t want advice. They want to be upset or depressed.
But it’s at least good to these these guys post here, as a stark example of what not to be. In many ways, they make the argument for happiness much better than I can.
Very true I guess. Without getting too philosophical about it, these guys need to realise that their thoughts really do shape their future. But as you say, they are happy being miserable. 🙁
As a 53 old “killer” 30 years ago, I hit 50 like a brick wall . 25 years of downhill marriage was taking an alpha 1, to the castration table. Now after seemingly an eternity (3years), my drive to regain alpha 2.0 is back. Pissing and moaning will not help me, but the first instinct is just that, and I’ll tell you why.
The “killer” was real, you did not want your daughter to date me, or your girlfriend around me. I was good at it, and with some regret I look back . But to live the story out to the “empress” level, and see “beta ” males everywhere . Makes me think I was not the one screwing them, but quite the opposite. I tell you this because learning the truth about oneself is the first step towards change. The future is what we make it .
I could give up, blame myself for lost love, or thrown away chances. But, watching female progression evolve to what it is, and male decline to what it is, makes me know there is a real need for Alpha 2.0 men out there . So I am resigned to ” get after it” .
Oh here we go! Here we go!
“Get off my lawn, you degenerate kids! You’re ruining this country with all your sex and rap music! You need family values! Now where did I put my teeth?”
Do you enjoy insulting us like this? Or do you secretly like hanging out with a bunch of “degenerates” on the Internet? If we’re all “degenerates,” what does that make you? Perhaps you’re a closeted “degenerate” yourself?
Maybe we can corrupt you. Come on, put the bible down. Just for a minute. Good, now stroke your dick. Doesn’t that feel good? Now if you just lighten up a bit and ease up on the bible thumping, maybe I’ll let you fuck my girlfriend.
I look forward to raising my future children in this society. I’ll put my son on a steady diet of James Bond films, forbid him from watching the Simpsons, make him fall in love with South Park, and train him to be the hottest boy in junior high. If he doesn’t lose his virginity by his 14th birthday, I’ll be upset.
As for my daughter, I sincerely wish she would fuck the entire football team by college at the latest! I mean, so many people say that “this girl” or “that girl” is “such a whore” because she “probably fucked the entire football team.” Well, goddammit, I want to make it true! Wouldn’t that be cool? If my daughter actually did literally fuck the entire football team?
I say this with zero sarcasm or humor – I would be the proudest father in the world!
Now if only my son would fuck all the cheerleaders, I’d be insanely happy as well. Maybe they could partner up and help each other out as brother and sister (one hooking up the other with their friends) while mommy and daddy buy the condoms and take care of the logistics.
See, now that’s what I would call – a cooperative and loving family unit!
Empty hedonism does not make some of us happy.
It’s good to have aspirations for your children, and losing your virginity before 14 is especially important, I can’t even imagine what sort of miserable life would await him if he didn’t.
Father of the year. If you’re lucky she might even become a pro after college and fuck the whole town AND get paid for it!
So you really don’t think any man can keep his ‘alpha’ status after marriage? Or just that most men, after years of monogamy to a brow-beating harpy, will wear down into beta submission?
What do you think about marriages that are sex-focused and where both parties have the same goals outside of sex (e.g. Grant & Elena Cardone)?
Jack you are the heart and soul of the comment section on this site.
One small quibble with your doom scenario @wolfofgeorgestreet: you don’t get rising house prices and a shrinking population. Well, inflation, but they don’t rise unbounded. As population falls demand for housing in general must also fall. Which means people in 30 years should have an easier time affording a house than we do in the west right now.
@Chieftan
Check this sorry site out http://talkaboutmarriage.com/
Then go on down to “Most Popular Discussions”-the first one is called “Why Do Married Women Eventually Become Repulsed By Their Husbands Touch?“. It gets better after that.
Hilarious and depressing. I’m sure the intention was to talk about how wonderful marriage is but it quickly turned into something like the dead bedrooms reddit.
Except that most of us aren’t buying our first homes in our 60’s, we’re buying them mostly in our 30’s (and some in of us in our 20’s or 40’s).
We’re talking about men that are in their 20’s or 30’s NOW and will be 60 in 30 years time, and that’s alot of debt to carry for the next 30 years on an ‘asset’ that you just pointed out might have even dropped in value by the time you’ve paid it off.
I also think that mass immigration will be the (flawed) solution to the low birth rate problem (isn’t it already the ‘solution’?), do you think the bulk of these immigrants will be (or are) hot, early 20’s chicks?
Your thinly-veiled attempts at an authoritative tone are cute. I wanna give you a big noogie right now.
If you’re talking 30-40+ years of TMM in the Western world, no (barring the occasional exception to the rule). If you’re talking about something different, like OLTR Marriage, or getting married in the third world (and staying there for the rest of your life), then yes.
Yep. I’ve seen it happen over and over again with old men “lucky” enough to never get divorced. And likely so have you.
If it’s nonmonogamous, yes. That’s how an Alpha can keep his balls.
But if it’s absolutely monogamous at all times, no, and it doesn’t matter how “sex focused” it is, or how much they love each other, or how much their goals align. Human beings are not long term monogamous creatures, and if you “force” them to be, dysfunction eventually occurs. In this case, the dysfunction is betaization, going from Alpha to beta.
I’ve posted there many times under the name Orange Crush. I used that site as part of my experiment a few years ago.
It’s the typical relationship site awash with Societal Programming, populated mostly by Dominant women and betas. They hate marriage but they all defend it to the death.
donnie that’s a gap of 36 years not 26. Fair play to him, hope I can still do it at that age. My personal biggest age gap is 20 years (me 39, her 19).
@WolfOfGeorgeStreet:
I’m not that inflexible. I didn’t lose my virginity until 15 and I’m okay. Still, it’s a poor father who can’t teach his children to surpass him. I’d mostly be upset at myself if he’d be still a virgin at 15 or, god forbid, 16. I’d start getting objectively upset if he’s still a virgin at 18. Now he has a serious problem that we need to solve.
Do they actually still give out those literal awards? 🙂
NO!!!!!
The last thing I want is for her to become a fake actress for money! Every time she has sex, I want it to be for her own pleasure, enjoyment, and happiness. I HATE prostitution.
Dude, why do you conflate women with healthy sex drives with asexual women who hate sex, but need rent money? The latter are sick women who need help! My daughter won’t be an imitator who fakes orgasms for money. If she will, I will have failed as a father.
My dream is to teach all my children (male and female) to love sex and experience it as a thing of beauty, which can even lead to a spiritual connection with your friends (that’s how my girlfriend describes group sex).
Anyone who conflates these healthy and high self esteem women who love sex with prostitutes who hate sex but fake enthusiasm for money is conflating the happiest women in the world with the saddest!
You REALLY need to see the profound difference between the two!
So it’s either completely meaningless casual sex or strict bible thumping monogamy?
This blog teaches the middle way – serious open relationships with love and all the trimmings, while still being able to bang other people, not just separately but also with your girlfriend as your partner.
Having group sex with the girl I love is not “empty hedonism.” Quite the contrary, it bonds us together even more and strengthens our relationship.
There really is a spiritual component to sharing other people with the woman you love and her sharing other people with you. It really makes you feel like an invincible team that is way stronger than those monogamous couples who are so weak that they would break up at the first sign of cheating.
Eventually, you feel sorry for the monogamous sheep, as they will never experience the true heights of spirituality that you have with your open girlfriend.
Assuming this isn’t sarcastic, thank you! 🙂
That’s true for sure, Jack, your comments are the bestest ever, even the (rare) ones that make no sense (e. g. the value you place on your genes : ). I learned much from you already.
The post by COguy brought a tear to my eye. Judging by some of the replies, it seems this is a new way for life for him. I hope he eventually makes his way over to this blog, if he hasn’t already:
And now that I have tears in my eyes…
Oops, good catch. Yeah he was a super cool dude, handsome and healthy but had a full head of white hair (and owned it). And she was really into him; it was inspiring.
Reading this post reminded of this article from a few years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/21/japan-oldest-porn-actor-tokuda
Yeah, that would not be bad retirement ‘job’.
BD, I wouldn’t make up my mind about the guy after spending just 10 minutes in a waiting room with him.
All you observe about the guy is mannerisms and his family photo, and you don’t know his underlying motivations. Statistically, a 50-year married husband probably feels beta (like he doesn’t have control and like he has to please his master, his wife). However, he could easily be a very happy content 70-year old alpha. Consider three things:
First, he might deeply value his connection with his family, and it makes him feel successful. So, he works hard to keep close with his wife and daughters. His wife and daughters may not value it as much as he does, but that’s the point… he goes after what he wants despite what his family might think.
Second, he caved in when you leaned forward because he’s 70 and you’re 44 – much younger, stronger, and faster. It’s a survival reflex. That doesn’t prove he’s beta or alpha… it just proves he’s old.
Third, I think at 70, the definition of alpha means something different than at 44. Maybe he doesn’t value a harem of young girls. I’m sure he would enjoy that, but maybe he doesn’t need it to feel successful. At 70, perhaps he values time with grandkids, and it makes him feel successful to be involved. Or maybe he likes playing chess all day competing with people in the park. I don’t know, and neither do you… You only spent 10 minutes with him.
Ya, curious as to what your successful old age will look as, at age 60 and age 70 as this man’s.
Marriage throws a man in a block of behaviors for years. Compromise, or divorce. Spend time together regularly, or divorce. Share the same parenting goals and method for your kids, or divorce. IF you divorce then you 50/50 leave it up to a judge to decide who gets your kids which decides maybe if they’ll be raised by using methods and direction incompatible with your views.
High school places you into a block of certain behaviors for years. Write homework, or you’re kicked out. Study for tests, or or you’re kicked out. Have regular attendance, or you’re kicked out. It ends, you move on to a new location and you don’t know what the next 2-3 ahead holds for you.
College same thing.
Maybe it’s about avoid entering certain blocks of life to start with. Because once you’re inside the particular box you act accordingly, know how to act, think behave in a certain mannerism and are scared to leave because you know nothing about the world outside the box you’re inside.
Well thank you!
And yes, I do want to pass on my genes to the next generation, as this was done with my family line for thousands of years. If even one person (out of thousands) were to disagree with that at any point in my family tree, I wouldn’t exist. So I’m not going to be that first person. I’ll give others the gift of life the same as it was done for me. Even as an atheist, I do have a spiritual side.
But thanks, I’m glad I’m making a positive difference here.
Do we really need to know? Is that the point of the article?
I agree that every man is a special snowflake with his own unique success metrics, but can’t we come up with something a little more useful than that?
The word “success” is in quotes for a reason. It’s a contrast between the traditional view of “success” vs. a very specific alternative: The Alpha 2.0 version of success.
Alpha 2.0s do not talk like this. People seeking the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle should generally strive to avoid this type of thinking. This man is a very good example for this article, regardless of his backstory.
Of course I could be completely wrong, but I can still make educated guesses and extrapolations based on what I know and my vast experience in working with (and knowing) old men, and have those likely be correct.
No. He was not happy. He wasn’t miserable, but he clearly wasn’t happy. He was wishing for happier times. Note he said “I get whatever I can take these days.”
Now if you want to argue he was content, you might be right, but that’s different than happiness. A fat loser sitting on the couch eating a doughnut watching Star Wars might be content, maybe. But he’s not happy.
True. I agree I could be completely wrong about my assessment. All I can do is play the odds, which is how I live my life, and I think the odds are I’m correct.
But yeah, I may not be.
I guess I will have to write a blog post about that.
Correct, that’s my point to Matt. He’s not Alpha, certainly not Alpha 2.0, and he’s not happy. That doesn’t mean he’s miserable, but he’s not happy. He might be content as an old man, but he’s still not happy.
The process of maturing is an art to be learned, an effort to be sustained. By the age of fifty you have made yourself what you are, and if it is good, it is better than your youth. ~Marya Mannes,
Nice article. I could be that old man; don’t know yet. I hope not. I’m closing-in on 70; a recent widower from a long but not very happy marriage to a gorgeous and smart woman whom I belatedly learned was emotionally and sexually wrecked by her pre-60s childhood.
I get the impression you really don’t realize or care how very much women’s attitudes, marriage and sexuality have changed since that geezer in your story and I were young men. You play the cards you’re dealt. Before 1980, the relationship deck for men & women was stacked and loaded with jokers…and the rules for folding were far stricter, to extend the metaphor. I like your candor and your outlook, and am reading more of your blog to help make my adjustment to a new condition…but you ignore how they’re as alien to most men over 60 as a giraffe in a tree.
You’re absolutely right and I’ve talked about that many times here. But you’re talking about the 60s and 70s back when guys your age were first getting married. I’m talking about the 90s, 00s, and 10s where these same married beta males could have either gotten divorced, and thus got laid with younger or hotter or skinnier or happier women, or opened up their marriages and done the same, instead of being semi-depressed beta slaves.
They could have done this since 1990, or at least since 2000 (which was 16 years ago!) if they really wanted to, but they didn’t. Maybe they were too far into beta-zone by then, I don’t know. But I do know that these men have lived in the same world as me for at least the last 30 years. Prior to that (1990 or 1980) I agree things were different and options were more limited.
I understand that, but the 60s/70s generation were raised in social attitudes that, agree or not, hadn’t changed much in 50 years. Sexual revolution mythology or not, people raised in a certain way didn’t abandon who they were, any more than those who came to maturity in the 90s are likely to revert to their parents’ inhibitions. Yes, things began to get a little looser sexually beginning in the late 60s, but most returned to their trad outlook after getting laid a few times before finding “the one”. By the time the social shift had been fully made, those people had kids in high school. Hell, no-fault divorce was still years in the future. Divorce remained an adversarial process in most places until the 80s, and left a huge social, family, and even workplace debris field in the lives of those involved. So by the time the 90s rolled into the lives of the 60s gen, most had accepted what they had.
Your ideas work well today, but to apply them to the 50s/60s generation is like deriding Washington for not taking a 3-pt shot in the final against Seattle in the ’79 NBA playoffs. It simply wasn’t an option yet.
I know.
However one standard you should hold is to move with the times, and adjust with the times if it’s necessary to maintain a high level of of happiness. For example, many men in my generation think things like texting and Facebook and Instagram are utterly stupid and refuse to use them. Whereas, since I want to be happy, I adjust with the times and forced myself to use these things to maintain my happiness.
Flexibility and awareness are hugely important life skills for happiness. Sitting around unhappy because “that’s the way I was raised” is a recipe for failure. Society changes too often.
Not sure which post i can ask this without going too off topic. I can just post this in another thread but…
What’s your opinion on renting vs owning a home/house/apartment?
So then, if ultraconservatism should somehow become the new norm, would you advise men to embrace it as the culture further evolving? If they rejected it as not reflecting their fundamental values and attitudes would it be failure and just falling back on “how they were raised”?
Too off topic dude. And too complicated an answer for a quick comment.
In terms of life logistics, yes, but only to a degree. For example, if our culture became ultraconservative and lifetime marriage became an enforced cultural norm, I would not advise men to go openly go around around fucking mass numbers of women, because that would likely create unhappiness for such men.
But I still wouldn’t say they can sit around and be unhappy because of their culture. I would be recommending that they leave this hypothetical ultraconservative culture and move to a different culture more conducive to long-term masculine happiness.
Once again, I would not let the culture be men’s excuse for being unhappy. A changing culture is no excuse! Nor is a shitty culture (too right-wing or too left-wing)!
If clinging to their fundamental values honestly made them happier men, then I would not question how they were raised, but that is not the case here. We’re talking about old men who were raised in a way that is making them less happy now.
I don’t read anything in this story that would indicate that the guy was unhappy. He’s making pleasant small-talk with a stranger, not too bitter to give you compliments, and he took out the photo of his family to show you without being asked, which is a gesture of pride. Sounds like a happy guy whose family is his pride and joy, so much so that he wants to show them off to strangers.
The fact that you thought the photo of his family looked like a horrible scenario doesn’t really change that. This is not at all dissimilar to when people show me, unprompted, photos of their young children/grandchildren. My thoughts are going to be “omg thank the universe I don’t have to deal with that shit on a daily basis I would shoot myself if that was my life”. And to me, most kids are funny-looking and ALL of them are dirty, loud, and often smelly so when I see photos of them I’m mostly just thinking about how glad I am I don’t have any. Yet to most people their children are the light of their life. I can’t relate to it, and a life full of little kids would make ME very unhappy, but I don’t assume that everyone else whose kids are their pride and joy are unhappy.
Seems kinda the same with this old guy.
I think that people who follow this blog tend to be people who are unusually NON-family-oriented. BD you even show that in this post when you said you started carrying photos in your phone of your kids specifically because people thought it was weird you didn’t have any. Because it IS weird. Most parents’ phones are literally full of thousands of photos of their kids.
I think it’s one of the distinctions between the type of guy who could become Alpha 2.0 and “normal” people. Alpha 2.0 types are less kin and family-minded and more likely to focus on freedom, autonomy, growth, mastery, adaptability, etc. I think level of family-orientation is a major personality trait on par with the big 5. The guys I’ve known who are closest to Alpha 2.0 (not sure I’ve ever met one who is fully 2.0) tend not to be as obsessed with and sentimental about their kids as your average person, even if they have them. They raise them and play their roles responsibly and love them, but there’s not the same inability to be objective or to view their family as humans like any other. These are the types of people who will say things like that if they have known what it would be like or could do it again, they probably wouldn’t have kids — “normal” people don’t say things like that because they are much too sentimental to allow themselves to have thoughts that logical.
So, just saying. You can’t assume this guy isn’t happy because your values and his are just so different. Family is obviously not the most important thing in your life. But it is for most people. I believe that when you ask people to list their values, “family” is consistently number one on their list. Whereas I don’t think I would even put it on my top ten list. Certainly it would go below “knowledge”, “learning”, “humor”, “friends”, “sex”, “pleasure” and “pets” on my values hierarchy. In fact, think about how many people would cite family, God, and country as the top three most important things to them. Can you even imagine??? That whole orientation is just very alien to one like yours which is not about such tribal affiliations and kin-based values, but about analyzing your environment, identifying the rewards and costs, mastering the causal relationships, and then optimizing outcomes for yourself.
People are really, really different. I mean, there are people who spend all their free time and money on fishing! Which is perhaps the weirdest possible activity I can think of. 🙂 Though they probably think that debating how life works with strangers on the internet is even weirder.
So, don’t feel too bad for this guy. Sounds like he’s happy. Feel bad for the guy who never wanted kids or a wife but got pressured into it by his family/social group and spends every day fantasizing about running away from them and only makes it through by getting drunk every night. Or the guy who never wanted anything BUT a family but couldn’t figure out how to make it happen. Or the guy who wanted to have sex with men but had to marry a woman because his religion and community said so. Worst thing that can happen, IMO, is being forced to live a life you don’t really want to because everyone around you thought it was right.
My Dad is 67, and one of the happiest people I know. Married and divorced twice with 5 kids including me. For the past 10 years or so he has lived with his girlfriend who is about 20 years younger. When we got to talking about it I learned he gets blow jobs about every week, more than I have got in my 20 year marriage. He naturally has done some of the things you advise like the soft next and refusal to marry again. When he was younger he was super handsome and had a bar, I reckon he’s slept with over 150 women. I am lucky. Thanks.
@donnie demarco RE: “if you are friendly and open-minded and NOT JUDGY.”
From recent 1st-hand experience, there is no way to go from a libertarian ZFG Alpha 2.0 to a SoCon Athol-Kay-style attached-and-punishing Alpha 1.0 *any faster* – than to commit to MONOGAMY. Even with the best of intentions and game-awareness.
I had reached a happy, healthy acceptance of how the entire societal model was irreversibly fucked. It wasn’t even marred by a bitter nihilism, it was just sort of ‘hey, maybe people simply don’t know what they don’t know’.
In committing to monogamy, a man with my awareness MUST regain some legitimate hope and/or belief that the societal model can work, however rarely – but work it must (occasionally) – since that woman is living her life in that society – and utterly impressionable in that society. As in, water taking the shape of it’s container. Because (almost?) AWALT.
Being “JUDGY” is a necessary trait of any and every man who both commits to being monogamous and refuses to be cuckolded. But even that is lose-lose – because it leads to pain, drama, and suffering. It is what it is.
@KryptoKate – ““normal” people don’t say things like that because they are much too sentimental to allow themselves to have thoughts that logical.”
If they are literally sub-consciously (or consciously) blocking themselves from having these thoughts, they are in profound denial. If they are in this much denial, they are NOT happy.
Denial is one of the shallowest stages/states of a person’s emotional life. Think of how many states of emotions go way deeper than it. Denial is the first immediate response of someone who has suffered a shocking loss, in fact. It’s that easy to conjure up. So it can’t cover up much for very long.
I do see that a lot of older adults are happy with their children…but eventually, they are even happier with *grandchildren* than their own children. It’s as if, over the lifespan, they become less appreciative of their spouse, and then subsequently – less appreciative of their children. Spouse < Children < Grandchildren
If these older folks’ children grow up to disappoint them, or be miserable people, or horrible people, that’s just adding misery on top of misery – and doesn’t make their elderly lives any better – worse, if anything.
I read this piece and came to the opposite conclusion you did. I sensed that this old guy was making one hell of an effort to wring some more meaning out of life, almost courageously, against a backdrop of being perpetually in a state of mental/emotional defeat.
I know you said you stole this already Blackdragon but this is the key to being youthful, imo. Ben Greenfield did an article and the athletic older people represented said that maintaining suppleness as we age is one the most important factors in maintaining our youthfulness. My personal trainer recommended a variety of different foam roller exercises for my IT bands and said if I wanted to be spry into my 90’s (it’s the new 60)I had to start taking yoga, now. She also said it was exceptional for holistic balance. I know that sounds a little gay but I feel completely different since I started.
Hey BD,
I thought it might be inspiring for guys to see what a guy can do even when he’s over 60.
You mentioned John McAfee. He was an Alpha 2 before even the concept of alpha was a thing (he was born in 1945) his libertarianism and his refusal to submit to the rules the Matrix imposes on the sheep is documented here
http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-what-really-happened-in-belize-2016-5
Maybe if guys saw what a man’s sex life can look like at his age (he’s now 71) they will be blown away enough to finally shuck their excuses and get real about the red pill.
McAfee moved to Belize in 2008 when he was 63. Here are some photos of the stable of girlfriends he kept in Belize:
His main
https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/12/ff_mcafee3_large.jpg
With his secondary beside him and some of his crew and their girlfriends
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/sites/sbs.com.au.news/files/styles/full/public/mcafee_051113_v.jpg
Some other secondaries
http://www.whoismcafee.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/port-1i-e1358133678788.jpg
Now look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKgf5PaBzyg
The tall black girl who walks out with him at the end is his wife Janice, who he married in 2013 at the age of 67.
So, a question for all the Blue Pill Morons (BPMs) above who have been posting speculative bullshit about how they plan to submit to the blue pill prescriptions of how pathetic their lives should look like when they are over 60:
Did the above finally get it to penetrate?
Here’s what I would say (and I quote:)
“Fuck BPMs, Fuck them in their stupid faces. I hope they get dick and cunt rot and die a slow, agonizing death for limiting themselves to society’s Blue Pill Bullshit (BPBS)”
A bit of 2×4 therapy to the side of the head. Wake up you guys!