The Story of My History with Women – Part 9 – Blackdragon Is Born
This is the ninth installment of the book that I never published regarding my history with women and the lessons I learned from it. If you haven’t yet, you should read parts one, two, three, four, five, six, seven and eight before you read the article below, so you can be up to speed on where the story picks up. Everything below is all 100% true to the best of my memory, journals, and spreadsheet records, though all the names of the people described have been changed.
We last left off in the spring of 2008, having just recently discovered pick-up artist (PUA) material. I was now determined to integrate what I learned to improve my results…
circa May 2008
After devouring PUA resources like The Game, David DeAnglo’s newsletters, Gunwitch Method, Mystery Method, and a few other pick-up artist systems, I finally found myself being a lurker on a PUA forum called Fast Seduction. As usual, most of what I read was niched towards guys in their twenties who liked to stay up late at clubs and try to score at 2am with women who had been drinking. Nothing wrong with that, but as a 36 year-old business owner and father of two, this kind of thing (which later I learned was called night game) was not compatible with my lifestyle at all.
The vast majority of PUA content back then was indeed about night game and not much else. A few guys were talking about daygame, and almost no one was talking about online dating, which was my focus.
I got discouraged pretty quickly, and started thinking about leaving the forum. But then one day, while reading through the list of acronyms and PUA terms, I saw something called “MLTR.” The definition described dating multiple women at the same time, as in actually having sex with them, without lying to any of them, and doing so over a prolonged period of time.
I stood staring at the screen as my eyes bugged out of my skull. Holy shit! This is exactly what I’ve always wanted!
I could hardly believe it. The bad news was that very few guys were actually talking about how to have MLTR’s (again, they were mostly younger guys focused on night game), but the fact there was actually a term for something I desperately wanted got me very excited. I instantly decided to set up an account on the forum and start posting questions. When it asked me for a cool sounding PUA username, I drew a blank. I had no fucking idea and didn’t really care. I planned on just posting a few questions, having a few discussions, then deleting my account in a few months and moving on.
So, just off the top of my head, I thought of my favorite Dungeons and Dragons monster, the black dragon (because I’m a huge nerd, and that’s just how my brain works), and put down “Blackdragon” with no spaces to make it look a little different. “Black dragon” also happened to be the opposite of “white knight,” which I felt was poetic. Slapped a picture of a black dragon as an avatar, and I started posting.
I mostly started asking questions about how to get laid faster, since I was getting lots of dates from online dating, but my meet-to-sex times were still very long. I was shocked to find out that I was already getting more dates from many, perhaps most of the guys who were regularly posting on the forums. There were several hardcore PUA gurus on the forums who were getting laid left and right, far more than I was, but these guys were the exception rather than the rule. As clumsy and poor as my dating systems were at that time, most guys on the forums were getting far less sex than I already was.
So in addition to asking questions to the guys who were getting laid more than me, I started giving a little advice to the guys who were struggling. I also tried to spark up some conversations about nonmonogamous relationships, but most guys were talking about relationships that were monogamous, which was both surprising and disappointing to me. Why the fuck would pick-up artists be pursuing monogamy, of all things? What the hell? It made no sense to me at the time. (Though I fully understand now; Alpha Male 1.0’s worship monogamy just as much as betas do, just a slightly different flavor. Also, a lot of the PUA’s actually were betas, Neil Strauss being the ultimate example.)
Regardless, once I started integrating things from other guys in the PUA community into my own system, things really started to click for me. My ratio of dates that resulted in sex went up. My dating costs went down. My average times from first meeting a woman to actually having sex with her went down.
Not everything the PUA’s recommended worked. Some of it bombed badly, but a lot of it did work, and everything improved by leaps and bounds. As I’ve described before, many pick-up techniques do work and will improve your results, all other factors remaining equal. I’m living proof of that. The difference in results in 2008 from what I was doing in 2007 with no PUA techniques at all were starkly clear.
As I started to get more successful, I started posting “lay reports” on the forums, describing exactly what I did and how things ended up, usually including long copy-and-pasted transcripts of my dating site messaging and text conversations. These became very popular very fast, not only because of my fun writing style, but because I was the only one on the forums getting laid this regularly from online dating instead of night game or daygame. Back in 2008, “online game” was still a new and very controversial thing. Many of the night game PUA’s, mostly Thrill of the Hunt guys, actually became upset that I was getting the results from such a “bullshit system” that was “for AFC’s” which “wasn’t real game” and “didn’t count.”
One of the biggest victories around this time was a super hot blonde 28 year-old who looked like Cameron Diaz. Within just a few hours of face time, she gave me a blowjob in her car, and then we had sex at my place on the very next meet.
This was quickly followed up with a cute half-Japanese 26 year-old who I had sex with on the second date.
And this was followed up by the near-perfect looking stripper with gigantic fake boobs, which I sucked on the second date and who I had sex with on the third.
The hits just kept on coming. My nonmonogamous relationship management skills were still reasonably weak, so I couldn’t keep any of these girls around for very long, but for the first time, I was reliably getting laid, doing it very fast, doing it for very little money spent, and the women were hot. Finally, after a year of intense effort, I had a system, clumsy as it was, that was at least working in terms of getting to sex with new women.
Things were not perfect though. I still had plenty of fuck-ups and misfires. It was during this time that I ran into the woman who bitched at me that I let her pay for her drinks when she offered to pay, as well as the woman who yelled at me in the coffee shop when I wouldn’t let her pay for her coffee. Both of these women I described in Get To Sex Fast.
I also had several streaks where I would go on ten first dates with no sex. Ugh. Brutal. The problem, I would later discover, was because a significant percentage of these women were over the Age of Doom, age 33, when ASD spikes. All the women I was having sex quickly with were under age 33, and all the women over 33 gave me a bunch of ASD excuses. However, I hadn’t yet figured this out. So I kept wasting my time going on numerous first dates with over 33 women and constantly getting confused as to why none of the techniques worked on them when it worked fine on women below that age.
Lesson Fourteen
If you’re using “dating game” where a first date/meet is required, meaning online dating or day2 daygame, you will not have sex with a woman quickly if she’s over the age of 33, unless she is a very rare exception to the rule. If fast, inexpensive sex is a priority to you, only stick with women under the age of 33. The difference is night and day.
Even the under-33’s gave me stupid ASD sometimes. Another woman around this time was Tina. A cute redhead, 28 years old, amazing body, recently broken up with her boyfriend, and single mother. On our first date, while walking down the street after talking at a bar, we made out, and I squeezed her amazing ass.
With all the PUA techniques in my head, I was totally focused on making out with girls. But this was night game advice, not advice geared for online first dates. I had not yet figured out that kissing a girl on a first date actually reduces the odds of ever getting to sex with her (unless it’s obvious you’re going to have sex right then and there on the first date, which is rare).
Lesson Fifteen
Unless you are 100% sure you’re about to have sex right then and there on the first date, never, ever, EVER kiss a woman on a first date. This spikes ASD, spikes buyer’s remorse, and kills tension, all of which drive your odds down for future sex with her. Talk about sex, kino, make the first date very short, but don’t kiss until you’re isolated with her on the second date.
As fun as she was, the subsequent date with Tina was weird. She wanted me to drive way out of my way to a remote location. I stupidly agreed and did so. On our second date, we were (once again) going for a late-night walk, and I pulled her to me to kiss her. Then she did a very strange thing. She pushed me away and said she couldn’t kiss me. When I asked her why, she said, “Well, I don’t kiss boys on the first date. It’s one of my rules. But I kissed you on the first date. So to make up for that, I can’t kiss you tonight. At all.” (I mentioned her in The Unchained Man.)
I suddenly had a flashback about Melody from the year prior, giving me her “rules” about which of her two boobs I was allowed to suck. Yet again, I ran into more of women’s silly, irrational ASD-born dating “rules.” Kill me. Listening to Tina’s rampant irrationality and woman logic actually caused me physical pain.
Long story short, nothing ever happened between Tina and me. We went on a grand total of two dates, and when I texted her to hang out again, I got a text saying “I’m off the market. I’ve gotten back together with my boyfriend.”
Ah, that explained a lot. I never forgot Tina and what she did.
Lesson Sixteen
There’s a lot of talk about women who say they “have a boyfriend” when they really don’t. However, the reverse is also true very often, particularly with online dating. Not all women who say they’re single actually are. Many of them are just temporarily angry at their boyfriend, whom they’ll go back to soon. Sometimes women will use you strictly as a placeholder and/or source of attention during a brief, temporary “break-up” with their boyfriend, then dump your ass as soon as they decide they like him again. Watch out.
By the late summer of 2008, I ended what I consider to be the beginner phase of my dating and relationship skills with women. Now, it was time to enter my intermediate phase, where I started successfully dating much younger women, and started mastering the art of having long-term FB’s and MLTR’s…
Part ten coming soon…
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Thanks BD. Could you write on whether you improved your looks after divorce and if/how women’s receptiveness changed after your looks improved.
We’re you physically attractive during marriage? How much do u think a man’s good looks can reduce monogamy problems (lack of sex, drama etc). A handsome man (face and height) would be hit on by other women constantly so wife would feel dread/competition anxiety thus improving her behaviour. She would also be proud to be with a handsome man and show him off to gfs, women like to make their gfs jealous 🙂
@kryptokate says women don’t get wet for the same guy after a few months, does that hold for attractive men too(face and height)?
I know that’s not your expertise, but more articles on improving looks would be nice, since I’m coming to the conclusion that it’s the most important aspect in attracting women (faceandlms videos are the true red pill imo, also see See RooshV’s article “You Have No Idea How Easy It Is For Good Looking Men”.
PS seems you’re still not done with weightloss? You may be missing out by not having a well defined face. Seems you have a masculine face, though you’re mid40s so you may show more wrinkles if you lose weight.
Having said that, your blog is excellent for relationship management advice.
The importance of a man’s looks (face and height) in dating/monogamy etc could be a good topic for your next debate. Blackdragon vs FaceandLMS would be awesome, should get you lots of views!
RE: kissing on the first date. Exactly. Spikes ASD, breaks tension. No no don’t.
The one exception (and I’m not sure it’s an exception because it’s so different) is if she kisses YOU. In this case, get her naked as fast as possible. At this point the ASD is out the window and you are going to get laid.
RE: Boyfriends (on the side)
A couple of years ago, I had an MGF who came from my social circle. Suffice to say, I got blindside dumped, and promptly I signed up for POF and *suprise* there she was. Maybe six months later I signed up for another site – suprise suprise she looks me up on that one literally minutes after I set it up.
I mentioned that to a mutual aquatinted friend, who mentioned he saw her at a party with the guy I got dumped for the previous weekend.
The lady is a serial cheater. Had I not gotten all needy and tried to girlfriend her up I could have enjoyed her much longer. And probably prevented her throwing stink on me with our mutual friends.
As BD says: look out.
Timely post Caleb.
Jay:
With respect, everything you wrote there is buffering.
Sooner or later they get bored with you no matter how jacked and handsome you are. Might be 2 months, might be 20 years.
The great thing about BDs systemic approach is you start looking at your “obsolescence” as a feature and not a bug.
If she stays, great. If she goes, fantastic. Makes room for someone new.
BD wrote somewhere he was completely fine not having a relationship that lasted more than three years. Once I started thinking that wasn’t so bad, and got over a trainload of societal programming, life got lots easier.
I always remembered that advice, but I personally have developed my own system, which makes it somewhat redundant. I also use online dating as my primary source of dates.
I live in a small town (around 50,000 people), so everything is close. We usually meet in the centre of the town, then go to a pub for a few drinks, play some pool, relax, and then I say “let’s go for a walk, I will show you where I live”. My place is literally 5 minutes away. They always agree. As soon as you enter the door, go for the kiss (Tips: jokingly tell them to take off their shoes, as your place is very tidy – this way they accept they are there not just to take a look. Helping take off their jacket if they have one can make going for a kiss even easier). With the bedroom a few feet away, this is as close to 100% to having sex as you can possibly get.
I have had a few who still refused to have sex because “don’t you think we are moving too fast?” talk, but they were literally back in my apartment “for dinner” the next day. Funny thing happened once with a girl who came back the next day. Upon seeing dinner at the table, she said puzzled “oh… so we are actually having dinner…”. Just shows you that even with a kiss on the first date, some of them are even more eager to get to sex than us guys.
I think if you employ a system where you push for sex on the first date, kissing rule falls by the wayside.
I thought your nickname had something to do with the Pacific Blackdragon, a fish that technically only lives to mate (the term is “semelparous”, methinks). The part about never reaching adulthood (It only stays in the larval face or something like that) seems like it could have been used as an insult by all this over 33 year old women you talked about in this post too, making it ironic and strangely relevant.
How many dates did you go on in a month during this stage?
He also published a “joke” article saying that rape should be legal or something. I’ve never been able to take that degenerate sex tourist seriously. Seriously, he couldn’t get it done in the west so he had to flee to eastern Europe to pursue TMM with 5s. And then he says he’s some kind of expert? I’m g00d.
That goes for anyone regardless of looks. If you don’t have the intestinal fortitude to keep a chick waiting, she’s moving on. You could be perfect in the looks department and it wouldn’t matter.
Pretty sure that debate has already been settled or at least addressed. And BD would swiftly and decisively defeat that FaceandLMS guy. The “looks are everything” crew have very bad habits of giving up on life because they aren’t perfect in appearance.
Appearance is one portion of the total package when it comes to a guy. They’re not completely irrelevant, but they aren’t ever a substantial deciding factor. Also the better looking a guy is, the more expectations a chick is gonna have. A good looking guy could be a socially awkward total loser and as soon as a chick finds that out, its over cuz the chick is gonna expect him to be really successful and cool.
Ditto on the expextations part Joelsuf mentioned. Ser the Twitter meme — <b>6’4, 4”</b>
He could (if “it” means just getting laid), he just wants TMM and other stuff he doesn’t find in the West. He wants his wife to be a 7, iirc, though I haven’t read his stuff in ages.
Also Day Bang was pretty good, I wish I still had it.
True, but that doesn’t invalidate his observation about looks.
And the consensus seems to be game/confidence etc>looks. Many men think looks aren’t really important which is false. I think looks is the primary, number 1, most important aspect in attracting the opposite sex, of course not the only one.
I think a woman would be more forgiving of faults if the man is handsome, whereas if you’re not handsome then you have to try harder.
Yes. Radically improved my appearance after my divorce, in all respects (weight, skin, hair, teeth, fashion). I still don’t consider myself good-looking though. Never have.
Of course it helped. That’s one of the reasons I did it.
Not at all. For most of the marriage I looked like a dorky, balding, overweight Microsoft employee.
I don’t answer questions about monogamy. If you’re monogamous you’re fucked in the long-term no matter what you do.
Of course. It’s hard-wired into women’s biology.
All you need is Chapter 7 in this book. It covers your entire physical appearance from head to toe in great, step-by-step detail.
Nope. It’s an ongoing battle for me. I actually gained a little weight last year due to getting excited about PF. I’m losing weight now, yet again. I’ll get there eventually, it will just take a long time.
I’m not losing out at all (yet), because I do everything else right. That’s one of the reasons its been so hard for me mentally to lose weight… I make plenty of money and get plenty of sex from hot women and live a great life without losing weight, so it’s really hard to stay motivated.
Too bad no one will actually volunteer to debate me with something I actually disagree with, like the last time I asked for a debate. As usual with commenters lately, you’re telling me to go debate someone else… not gonna fly. YOU need to volunteer to debate me, or a debate will probably never happen.
I already made my opinion on this very clear here.
Incorrect. This will still spike ASD and cause all the usual problems. Sucks, but it’s true.
That’s the problem. If she kisses you at the end of the first date on the street corner as she’s headed to her car to leave (as just one common example) good luck getting her “naked as fast as possible.”
Correct. Jay’s comment, despite the valid questions, has a tone of oneitis.
Your system is based around trying to fuck 100% of women on the first date. If that’s your system (it is not mine, for numerous reasons I’ve already enumerated) then much of my advice doesn’t apply.
2-4 first dates per week most weeks. I was hitting it very, very hard at this stage. Constant openers, first dates, second dates, pretty much every week. Mid-2008 is when I started going crazy with this stuff, and I didn’t let up until around late 2010 or so.
I met this 18 year old muslim girl, im 25 by the way.
we hung out once the first meeting pretty great i’d say improve a lot in terms of expressing my sexuality, kino etc
we texted sexual innuendo back & forth maybe 2 days per week because she was out of town couldn’t meet me things like, ”it’s okay, i’m NOT trying to get u pregnant”
*after 2 weeks of silence*
”im sorry i have found a boyfriend”
keep in mind that, this girl? She actually bought a present for me i thought she has high buying temperature and i was thinking gonna meet her end of this march (that was what she told me)
any thoughts? it has to do with religious mindset of this girl? Or i did spike too much ASD via dirty texts? But she’s 18 year old chick…
@Tom: based on your comment you did things very wrong before we even talk about the specifics related to her being a muslim girl. Dude, don’t spend days or weeks sexting. Pitch a date and if she’s not available, radio silence till she is (if you don’t know when she’ll be, just send a random opener every couple weeks), otherwise just move on.
As for those specifics, just try to get her (this is a generic “her”, you’ve already blown it with that one) to your place while avoiding explicit verbalization of sexual intent as much as possible (while *strongly* conveying it nonverbally). Chances are, any other approach will just get you MASSIVE social/religious ASD.
Jay is right tho, it is looks that mainly attracts women and the rest is just like 20% of the equation, if that, even. If you’re small-framed like I am u might aa well give up on trying to get a slim, pretty woman of any age.
BD is from a different age group and he got rich before the meltdown of 08 so he wont be able to understand, or of he does, then he downplays the role that height has in attraction for the sake of his business. Young women today are absolutely ruthless about having the tallest and most hung badboy that exists and they’ll share him with 20 of their friends just to get fucked by him occaisonally. They dont care about commitment or anything. Only the top 5% are even visible to them.
The same goes for older attractive women as well. You even agree woth Chris from Good Looking Loser and his entire premise is that looks are all that matter to women.
The same goes for older attractive women as well. You even agree woth Chris from Good Looking Loser and his entire premise is that looks are all that matter to women.
@Tom
Here are your answers:
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2012/01/15/text-game-part-4/
You are welcome, buddy.
@antrekritt
that’s why i radio silence her 2 weeks, and she had high buying temperature promised me gift and i heard she has had a boyfriend excuse. And she even told me at last, ”do you still want my gift (She promised we could hang out as ”friend”) ?” I straight away ghost her back lol.
maybe i fucked it up because i induced sexual innuendo in my text? But usually flirting has to be done minimally on text isn’t it? I imagine long logical conversations gonna bore the fuck out of the girl.
You mean like Neil Strauss? Who was a small-framed ugly beta who was getting laid left and right before he became famous? Yeah.
I am not rich. Ask Pink Firefly if you don’t believe me. (Do you really think I would be here talking to you right now on this blog if I was “rich?”)
It would be nice if I was though.
You mean like Neil Strauss? Who was a short guy getting laid left and right before he became famous? Yeah.
And I’ve said repeatedly that shorter men need to wear elevator shoes and/or shoe lifts on first and second dates. Not sure how you could have missed that advice after I’ve said it so many times.
So you are saying that you had been going to 2-4 first dates for two and a half whole years!? Which means that you have been in more than 300 first dates?
No no. I’m saying that my primary focus in life between mid 2008 and late 2010 was women, dating, sex, and relationships. I wasn’t going on 2-4 first dates during that entire time, since once I had a huge number of women on rotation (I went as high as nine women on rotation!), I backed off on the first dates since I didn’t need them at those times.
Did you think he was joking about putting the numbers in?
How many first dates do you estimate to have been to, in total? I have hit 200 and I have lost my motivation big time, because it is such a strenuous process.
The number of first dates I’ve been on is indeed measured in the hundreds, but I’m not giving a specific number for the same reason I don’t disclose how many women I’ve had sex with: I don’t want to take the time out of my schedule to deal with the inevitable nitpicking that occurs when guys like me reveal these kinds of figures.
Yes, I put in the numbers. Always have. As a chubby guy, I had/have no choice.
I practice what I preach. Always.
Then you have not yet hit your long-term woman goal, or you never set one, which is even worse. I hit my woman goals many years ago, so I no longer need to go out on lots of first dates (thank god).
I strongly recommend you listen to podcast #1 here.
Hey BD,
Speaking of working on game during your younger years, I’m curious…
You noted before that “The Ultimate Online Dating Manual” works in “the Western World and the industrialized regions of Asia and South America.”
Have you heard of any guys making online dating work in Taiwan? I know it’s relatively more conservative there, but I’m not sure if it’s simply another “sounds hard but not really” country, or if the country is prudish enough to render online dating actually very difficult, like Toronto, Copenhagen…etc.
What’s your take on this? Reports from Taiwanese puas?
And you have also said that some of your “Open Relationships Manual” works for Asia, others don’t.
What types of calibration would you recommend? Since virgins are common in some Asian countries like Taiwan, I guess one adjustment would be to ease down the sex talk a little bit. Yes?
@The New Yorker.
My mate lives out there and loves it.
The girls are more DTF than China and you don’t need to be earning massive wages to live comfortably like you do in Japan (where I lived for three years).
Its westernised and not Conservative at all. All the Taiwanese girls I’ve slept with were very open in terms of just having fun & not wanting anything serious.
I’m finding I like these articles more than your others because they are more relateable. A lot of what you discuss is more advanced, or sometimes advanced+. Myself and most others are not at that stage and possibly never will be. I would say this article is pretty close to my current level, give or take a bit.
Yes, I’ve spoken with many guys in Taiwan and almost universally I’ve heard what you said, that women there tend to be more conservative. Not has hard as Toronto, but harder than average.
That is not what I’ve heard at all. The only men I’ve heard of getting laid a lot in Taiwan are white guys. (So if you’re white, then cool.) For local Chinese guys it’s harder. Again, not impossible, but harder.
That’s exactly why I post these and your point is taken; I do indeed sometimes post articles for more advanced guys sometimes (there’s one coming on Thursday) since that’s where I live, so that’s what comes easiest to me. I will continue to be sure to write articles for guys at the beginner / intermediate stages as well.
Hello,
BD, I have a question considering what you said in the article. You said that you still had problems keeping women once you had sex with them. What were some of the mistakes you made that discouraged them from staying?
Thanks!
He had a looks makeover first, looks pretty cool in the “after” picture IMO http://askmissa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/neil-strauss-before-and-after.jpg
A pretty good documentary is “Height & Dating” on youtube.
If you’re short, odds are stacked against you and you have to work harder ceteris paribus. It can be done if you make up for it in other aspects, but it’s gonna be an uphill battle for most.
What is wrong with Toronto?
I’ve met a couple of my mates friends who are Taiwanese guys and they do well.
However they both studied abroad so they’re mentality is different from the typical Shy Asian guy that you tend to find in North Asia.
Complete horseshit. And been proven over and over again by many many guys. It’s called limiting beliefs! Or an excuse! And yes if you have them you are fucked. So if it makes you feel better and you want to keep living in that mindset instead of working on yourself and you mentality and skills with women then you really are fucked. Enjoy! But don’t keep coming on here talking rubbish. Stay at home and keep sucking your thumb. Oh those women are so nasty!! :'(
@Tom
You’re seriously writing on THIS blog about this ONE women you met?????
…and she did this….and she said that….and her buying temperature (whatever the fuck that means)…when your dick is in her mouth….then you know that the buying temperature is high….anything else is actually some fantasy you are having in your own little head!
Get some abundance man and stop fantasizing about “that one girl!” Your neediness is what is fucking it up no doubt!
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2015/11/09/is-it-impossible-to-get-laid-in-certain-cities/
Hm, ok. Any idea why, Blackdragon?
Their irrational shit is also causing me that. I know its not a good idea to take stuff seriously and especially to not get angry but I have been struggling with that recently? Any suggestions?
Especially when I dates so many women recently and it all ended with some irrational shit. I kind of feel like I cant take this anymore. I would like to hear if you have some suggestions. A lot of women left because of the slightest smallest mistakes and even when everything seemed to be good and I was giving them lots of orgasms every time.
I have this problem right now. Women leaving after having had sex with them on 3-5 different occasions, even though I gave them orgasms every time.
Hey @Blackdragon
Since you talk about your experience and game in the past, can you talk as a futurist of how you anticipate your game to change as virtual sex or sex robots start being used men.
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/off-topic
Yes. Next them.
I wouldn’t tolerate any woman who threw irrationality at me.
and
Gentlemen, it’s not just about orgasms. There are nine cardinal rules and giving orgasms is just one of them. You need to be doing all nine (only see her once a week, no relationship talks, no boyfriend behaviors, don’t contact her too often, etc). Failure to do any of these things can and will result in her leaving prematurely.
If you’ve got a pattern of women leaving you too soon, you’re doing something wrong. It’s your job to pinpoint that.
I’ve talked about that several times before. The bottom line is that sex robots will make it easier for men, since women will be forced to be nicer and reduce their ASD and betaization in order to compete with the robots. So less game will be required, not more.
I love this serie of your history with women!
Probably a noob question, but is there a way to be more or less certain that you did make them cum? Many are good at faking after all, and some will also lie when you flat-out ask them if they came. How do you track whether you’re progressing at all at going down on women?
What if she doesnt contact me on her own and I always have to initiate the stuff or worse she doesnt respond to messages?
And about orgasms, Ive met women who didnt get orgasms during a session with me and I asked them about it and they told me they dont get orgasms easily or that they never get one. What do you suggest then? To be honest there arent that many of those but I was never sure how to handle that.
I dont get this fake orgasms stuff. I had women who told me they dont get it easily but that that they still like it etc, so I am not sure if women actually do that because they could just tell you this instead (and they do).
Part Nine. LOL!
Gee, how did I EVER miss Loser: Part Eight?
:O)
@BD
So in other words, height obviously is a huge factor for women, otherwise you wouldn’t recommend it to shorter guys. Problem with that is though, once you take your shoes off and that girl sees your real height, she might get a shock.
I am in my late 30s now and have had my fair share of women in my life and from my experience and from what I have seen looks is the No.1 thing that attracts women to a guy in the 1s place. I still don’t know whether height vs body vs face is their priority (obviously all of them would be perfect) but all you need to do is observe a woman’s behaviour when she is around a hot guy – she turns into a little girl, all smiling, laughing and acting like a total teenager, no matter her age. Money and status can do a lot for you but you have to work a hard to make money and build up your status and even then just because you fuck some hot women, it’s just a result of your image. That’s why there are tons of hot women even spending money on their “loser” boyfriends without jobs or real careers who happen to be Chads and Tyrones.
And as for Neil Strauss, how do we even know he got laid left and right at all before he got famous? Just because he says so? I don’t think he had the success he claimed he had. What most PUA never like to explain for obvious reasons is that you can have the biggest game in the world but if you are not attractive to most women then you are not under their radar, that’s just simple biology. A woman who is not attracted to you physically won’t give you her time of the day to talk to you, that’s why PUA is a number’s game.
Me, I am like 5’11, in good shape, cause I work out and I guess I have good facial features cause women tend to look at me on a daily basis when I walk through the streets, but I am reaslistic, in 8 out of 10 cases I got no chance standing next to a 6’2-6’3 good looking hunk, no matter how good I am at gaming women. The only chance I got is to hope he is a total wacko.
Bit OT, but it caught my attention.
This sounds like you feel/think/know that you should lose weight but you do not really want to fully stop eating stuff that makes you overweight. Kind of like when an alcoholic says ‘I want to quit drinking’ but what he means is that he does not want to have hangovers, fucked up health, social and family problems etc, but he still really really enjoys alcohol and wants to get wasted every day, because it feels good. With that attitude it is basically impossible to stop drinking, which is a reason almost no one manages to do so.
Not just for BD (who quite possibly knows it anyway): Being overweight (or alcoholic, or unsuccessful, or beta AFC, etc) is not a condition you have, it is what you are. It’s not something you just get rid of after you perform some set of actions, it will come back unless you change who you are on some more fundamental level (and yes, I know it sounds like a platitude and I that am simplifying). In this case it is quite difficult because we naturally crave fats and sugars, so to be honest I do not exactly know how to do it (though I have some ideas).
Somewhat related: have you read the book ‘Path of least resistance’ by Robert Fritz?
Say you had a billion dollars. How would you change you current life and lifestyle? What would you do and how would you spend your time? This could maybe even be a nice blog post: ‘Blackdragon billionaire’ 🙂
Once you’ve seen several women cum for real, you can guess, but there is no “certain” way, since many women, when they cum for real, don’t make any sound or do anything spectacular.
In my strong opinion, if lots of women are faking orgasms with you, you’re doing something wrong in the relationship. Therefore I don’t worry about it.
You can contact her once or twice a week; that’s fine.
Then it’s time to move on to other women and put her on do not contact for 4-6 months.
Correct, some women can’t cum. The system doesn’t change. You make them feel as good as they can for as long as you can. This still sets you apart from other men. Also, get a good vibrator and use it on her; that will often get her cumming.
She won’t give a shit after Lock-In (sex with her twice).
Pathetic, beta, pussy attitude. Why the fuck are you complaining about being short when you’re 5’11”? You’re taller and better looking than me, and yet you don’t see me bitching about men who are 6’3″. You’re actively looking for shit to complain about and make excuses. You should be ashamed of yourself.
You, and a few of the rest of you in this thread, need to read this:
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2017/04/24/stop-with-the-excuses/
No. I’ll check it out.
Simple. Nothing in my plans would change, except that I would implement phase two of my Mission instead of doing it in six years when I turn 52. I don’t have time to go into details (and it’s off topic), but I would start working for enjoyment and fulfillment instead of money and focus on my spiritual life and fiction writing.
I already have this possibly written into my long-term plan; if I receive a sudden windfall of cash or have a massive, unexpected spike in my income, both of which are not likely but possible. (Not a billion dollars, but I don’t need anywhere near a billion to be happy.)
Hmmmm. Yessssss. That would really make a lot of people mad… I like it.
Word.
I don’t even think he’s looking for excuses more than he’s enjoying being pissy. Been seeing a lot of guys (even Alpha 1s) doing that now, getting some kind of pleasure out of being mad about stuff.
Well actually, what I like about BD’s articles and books is that they’re filled with actionable advice. I’ve gone on dates where literally the entirety of the talk on the dating site was copypasta except specific dates and times, what’s advanced in that? Many people don’t execute soft nexts when they should, but what’s advanced in not talking to someone?
A turning point for me was How To Lose Your Virginity by Good Looking Loser. The step by step instructions were so straightforward and realistic that they inspired me with confidence I never felt before. I didn’t follow the instructions, following BD’s methods instead (to great success), which are a bit less straightforward yet still very simple and very realistic.
The only thing I would consider advanced is social calibration, that is, being able to glean information from social interactions—are you pushing too hard? or should you be firmer instead? is it time to switch topics? etc. This does require experience.
Which recent blog posts from BD would you find advanced?
You should perhaps stop taking said hunks with you on dates.
That is taller than most men by far almost anywhere in the world. It is taller than most women anywhere in the world by long shot. The most pathetic excuse ever.
Do you guys even read what I said? I wasn’t complaining, since I said I have had my fair share of women I was just telling my oppinion on height advantages because I got the feeling that you guys seem to ignore it. You can be as alpha as you want but in a woman’s pov she doesn’t care, she likes what she likes. And I am not american, I live in Europe Germany, and most guys here seem to be over 6ft on average. Maybe 5’11 is tall in the USA but it’s medicore here.
Btw BD, didn’t you say you were 6ft?
@Berti
You need to calm down.
Im 5’8″ and do I wish I was taller? Absolutely.
But its just one of the factors you cannot control. Height just matter in the initial phase of the relationship, together with a bunch of other factors totally out of your control which decide if she wants to have sex with you or not.
To my fellow shorter guys: Stop focusing on the factors you cannot control and start focusing on the one you can.
@Berti
1) By all means, BD hasn’t 5′ 11″ or even 5′ 10″ tall men in mind when he talks of elevator shoes.
I am 5′ 10″, and surely height has always been the last of my hardships in fetching women (social rank, social aptness, a cheeky/funny demeanor, facial beauty and thew are all factors far outweighing height).
2) As regards the tall-tall handsome-handsome “hunks”, why do you feel in competition with them?
Let’s call them the 10s, 9s, and 8s. If you aren’t one of them (and you wouldn’t worrying about them were you one), you shouldn’t focus on them as your competition.
This like when I self-loathed because I couldn’t remotely write as well as the authors I read.
Not a mature thing to do.
In every field (dating, writing, …) maturing means to realize what our reach and scope are, and then do our best within it — whilst never letting one or two particularly raw knock-outs make us lose our track (our ability to find back our track and get to walk on it, I should perhaps say), and never catching oneitis (the mental pitfall of mistaking a stranger woman for our mother, for those who had a very affectionate mother).
@Anterkitt
If they physically like you, you’ll see their breasts and nipple “agitated” while having intercourse. This is more telling and essential than their bare climaxing or not, in terms of a gauge of what you mean for them and how well you are doing.
(feedback)
I like neither this kind of post not the chronicles of his current LTR. I prefer the other more thoughtful, elaborate posts.
Complete BS. Looks/height or whatever don’t stop you from putting the numbers and find those women who like you(yes even the 8s and 9s). Looks/height might improve your conversion but you’ll still have a conversion if you are an average guy and that’s all you need. So yes you are complaining because you don’t put the work and numbers. You need double the work of the good looking guy? You still might get MORE women and more beautiful women than him if you put in the numbers.
Let’s say you and a very good looking guy go out on date with 100 women(7s+). If you are both OI, alpha and follow the rules on first 2 dates, he’ll get better conversions than you. But you’ll still get conversions. And that’s all you need.
In terms of relationship if both of you do everything right, the looks play very minimal role in keeping a woman because most probably the woman is still attracted to you when she leaves. So to answer Jay’s question looks have very little importance in keeping a woman longer(if she liked you in the first place, she likes you). That’s if you do everything right and not be a pussy, monogamous beta or a complete asshole. A woman might still leave because she woke up one day and wanted a baby, and you don’t give it to her. Or maybe she woke up one day and wanted a house with a fence.
No. I said I put 6ft on my profiles sometimes. I am just a hair over 5’10” when barefoot, 5’11” when wearing shoes, and I wear shoe lifts on first and second dates when the woman is 5’8″ or higher. Because, as I’ve said many times and you’re ignoring, height is a key factor. It’s just not the only factor.
Yes. You said you’ve fucked a bunch of girls then spent the rest of the comment complaining about super tall guys, which is gay as fuck.
That is exactly what you were, and still are doing. Stop it.
Incorrect. Average German male height is 5’10”, which is shorter than you. And German and American men are the same height. Source:
http://www.wecare4eyes.com/averageemployeeheights.htm
You’re focusing on the negative because you want to whine and bitch and make excuses. STOP IT.
One of the most enlightening things I’ve ever read on the Internet was your mASF post (in 2009, I think) “BIG POST: The Ultimate Post on Why Long-Term Monogamy Doesn’t Work.”
A million thanks for that post, BD!
What does that mean?
I usually tell women I am the perfect height. About 177. If I was taller it would inconvenience me, especially if traveling, indeed it feels like many things have been designed FOR me. I am still taller than almost any woman anywhere in the world. Indeed it is not about what it is or what you say but about how you think/how you say it/with what kind of mindest. This makes or breaks stuff. A guy can be taller than me but chicks might not date him because of his heigh and they date me, because of his insecure mindset.
Finally, you can always wear nice leather hiking boots in winter and formal shoes (the ones with the heel kind) in summer. In both cases these shoes add to your height and look good as well. I have also found that heigher shoes make me walk with better posture slightly.
Only problem is if the woman wears heels, but a woman over 175 should not wear heels. Ever. Those women just look like monsters or quite comical even. Could argue about 170 ish women as well.
Really enjoying these articles, looking forward to the next installment!
Yes but unfortunately most of the really bad stuff is from women who dont want to continue. Of course then the irrationality doesn’t continue but it still causes me a lot of pain.
About nexting for irrationality. I assume that if you next a woman for this but its not a hard next you explain to her what “she did wrong”? Otherwise you’d just get it again and she wouldnt understand why youre nexting her?
Did you write a post on this somewhere? I think I read it a while ago but can’t find it anymore.
Its usually starts with them being very enthusiastic at the start and then it diminishes after a few dates. Other than that I have not found any similarity between the cases so far. One thing could be theyd want more than just sex and get bored because of thats all were doing but I guess thats what everyone on this site is doing and it works just fine so thats prob not it.
This applies also if we just had sex 3-6 occasions as opposed to months of dating and then it stopped because she stopped replying or told me we don’t have much in common? That I contact her again after 4-6 months?
Did you write some more info / guide on contacting women after this 4+ months? I remember reading about it on many occasions but usually you only mention it briefly. I am asking because I am starting to build a stack of women to be contacted later so I expect it to become highly relevant in a few months to know how to handle this correctly.
mASF was the short name for that old forum, Fast Seduction (which no longer exists).
Then I don’t see the problem. On to the next woman on the list!
A woman who doesn’t want to be with me anymore virtually never causes me any pain. I just shrug, let her go, and 94% of the time she’ll be back in a year or two. And I always have multiple women on rotation so my sex life continues unabated.
Correct. Irrationality is not a hard-nextable offense, otherwise I would have to hard next every woman I’ve ever had sex with.
Usually no. I just move on. If she directly asks me why, I can give her a one or two sentence answer, but that’s it.
Item #6 and #7 here.
Yes, perhaps hundreds of times. Go through the archive. And read my books.
Yes.
Though again, if you’re having woman after woman act like this after just 3-6 fucks then you’re doing something wrong.
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2014/10/12/important-ignore-breakup/
Hi Blackdragon
You said you do not sexually escalate on the first date. Do you bring under 33 year old women straight to your place for the second date or do you bounce them? Do you next them if they resist?
@BD
No I wasn’t dude. A comment from another user, I guess it was JAy, caught my attention when he was talking about height importance which some of you seemed to wipe off. I just said in most cases you got no chance against a 6’2 hunk.
Where the hell did you get that? That’s not accurate. In no way are american the same height as german men
https://www.laenderdaten.info/durchschnittliche-koerpergroessen.php
Germany 1.80m
USA 1.77m
If a long time MLTR wants to know what the future of the relationship could possibly look like, do you tell her? If you saw it never going past MLTR, would you say so? If she was a real candidate for OLTR, would you tell her in any way?
To my place.
No. I go ahead and meet them at another bar or coffee shop and get as far as I can.
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2016/09/15/theres-one-girl/
@BD
After reading this it dawned on me another item that might help us guys or at least myself with dating and the alpha2 way.
Is there any book out their now or have you considered creating a short story w humor that we could have our ladies read to help them understand why THEY need us to be masculine and that it’s ok for us to desire more than one woman occasionally. That this is healthy for men and THEM AS WELL!! I suppose it wouldn’t have to have humor but this topic is so dramatic for them. Earth shattering typically when I break this to them. Like there entire world is collasping. Lol.
It almost needs to totally flip the script so that if a man says he is ok w sleeping w just one women forever, that she should wonder what is wrong with him? And I’m thinking in fiction vs non-fiction might lower there defenses some idk?
Come on BD, you know I’m dating multiple women from my past posts. I’m just trying to learn the best ways to manage MLTR relationship talks for maximum success/happiness. I enjoy the emotional aspect of that structure, but I’m unsure of how much to divulge in terms of future wants/possibilities.
In terms of dating and relationships, women aren’t interested in logic.
Its not they know it already. They just act like its something new. Also, I did tell women in the past and the results were usually things like anger, lack of further things to say, saying they will just live alone or date a woman etc… all signs of knowing its true and they are wrong and admiting it but being upset that someome else is right.
In short: you dont need to tell someone something they know already. Its the men who need to read it mere than the women.
Tell the ones that don’t qualify you’re not “available” or you’re to “busy” for anything serious in your life right now and leave it that. If they do qualify, then you have to follow either BD’s guidelines or your own regarding time constrictions. I believe that he says min 6 months for oltr, but personally recommends a year, and they have to qualify for it. Most women won’t IMO. In any event I would read these articles if you haven’t already:
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2017/11/30/requirements-oltr-apply/
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2016/06/23/when-to-say-i-love-you/
Edit: Was also looking for the article that might be helpful where BD said it was okay if a women called herself your girlfriend but couldn’t find it.
@BD
So, I am reading my Personality Type profile today (ENTP) and notice this paragraph and started laughing out loud in the coffee shop because it is SO true in regards to me and “serious” relationships (serious = monogomous):
“Their Ne dominance also makes them more open to “playing” than INTPs are. I once administered a values inventory and was surprised when a couple ENTPs marked “having fun” as one of their top priorities in life. To most INTPs, whose dominant Ti compels them to take life seriously, such a response smacks of hedonism and would likely be among their lowest ranked values.” (source: personality junkie com)
But it got me thinking – do you know what your Type is (I would be shocked if you were not an ENTP or INTP) and what your current OLTR type is? What about the past OLTRs you had or more serious MLTRs you have had? Is there some correlations or match making patterns you can pick up from these maybe?
Almost like a 6 sigma science to knowing which types might be a better fit etc. One could even do these profile tests together while cuddling for fun and to show her how “fun” and my happiness are # 1 issue.
Plus, maybe they could be matched up with Zodiac signs as well to have an idea which ladies would be able to work best for marriage for someone so laid back as I am.
INTJ
ESFJ
Yes, many of them.
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2012/09/23/using-your-myers-briggs-personality-type-to-get-laid/
Zodaic signs are bullshit.
https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2011/09/27/dont-screen-women-instead-categorize/
@BD
Sweet! Thanks a million!
MBTI is hardly better than Zodiac signs.
It’s better. There’s actually some real science behind it (unlike the Zodiac) and it’s constantly reviewed and updated by experts (unlike the Zodiac). Notice the video didn’t address MBTI’s validity or research since the 40’s at all; it just talked about it was originally developed and left it at that. That should tell you something.
MBTI is never 100% accurate and has a lot of flaws, but comparing it to the Zodiac is silly.
@BD
So your current OLTR PF is way off on digits compared to your INTJ. I was told by a friend that a match is best if 1 digit off typically. So, do you know what your other FBs or MLTRs #s were that lasted the longest or had the best chemistry with? If so, are they ususally close to yours or way off or no patterns at all?
Additionally, are the women that you clased with the most or had horrible chemistry with close to yours digits or way off?
Thanks!!
@Berty
That went totally out of topic but I completely get you. I am in the same boat as you.
Blackdragon is noticeably over average USA men height, and so are probably a lot of these guys shutting you down. They have no idea what they are talking about concerning height. They can’t relate at all. And they forget that in europe you compete with other nearby countries, such as Dutch men, tallest averace height in the world. It’s like men compete with nearby states in USA.
Moreover BD has another article somewhere about the shoes and in this article he clearly states that the tall women did only cringe when he stood up. Meaning his seating height is probably tall. Plus Blackdragon is strong, meaning large shoulder bone frame (you can’t change your bone frame no matter how much workout you do), easy muscle gains even improved with TRT, and his problem with weight is to downsize it, limit the fat. He is BIG in a good way. This demultiplies how much clueless he is about the true value of height. He is rorrect to say it’s not the only factor, however he underestimates largely the impact of height and bone frame. And finally he has no idea of the most important part about height : seating height matters the most, total height matters less.
The following nuance plays unconsciouly most of the time in people :
Men are attracted to smaller women with longer legs (and thus smaller seating height/torso in proportion statistically), women are attracted to taller men with taller seating height/torso (and thus smaller legs in proportion statistically).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/3349823/Why-short-women-with-long-legs-are-the-most-attractive.html
(I can’t find again the study itself but it’s definitely interesting to read).
Total height, as long as you are taller or even equals to her, it’s harder, but it passes.
Seating height however if you’re not significantly taller torso than her it’s gonna be much harder. And there is a very pragmatic reason for that : when you cuddle or have sex you won’t be wrapping her as much, it may even feel less comfortable kissing in certain positions or downright impossible. Your upper body is probably not gonna be as strong also at comparable muscle built. She won’t feel as ‘taken’/’sheltered’.
Also smaller women tend to pair bond with taller men (because thoy are both tte hottest thing inwterm of height and thus have more option, thus the luxury to go for extremes), and then the averages with the averages, which clearly plays against your odd.
If you combine both disadventages it’s really neally harder. Even worse with narrow shoulder bone structure And there is always gonna be some dudde turning you down saying your argument about height is bullshit because he has no pb and he is same height as you. But what he doesn’t see is that seating height is more important than total height, and he is probably significantly taller than yours, perhaps taller than average. And prehaps his shoulder bone structure and muscle gains easiness also plays in his favor.
If you take each one separately it may not seem like you deviate much from the average. Like perhaps you’re in the 40th percentile. But when you combine all these small disadventages : boom it gets really really hard, and there is no amout of game and gym to completely offset that. You can’t change your bone frame structure, but you’re still lucky to be very tall man in worldwide average, and it’s completely within your power to move live somewhere in the world where you are locally taller than average and where you like the women and women like you. This will beat any improvement with game and gym by far (which you still must improve on anyways).
BD has a nice way to think of it: https://alphamale20.com/blackdragonblog/2011/08/15/how-to-get-laid-seduction-as-point-system/
So some men start with a point deficit, while others have much more than average. This is reality. Should one focus on this aspect of reality, or maybe on those he can actually improve?
(Disclosure: I’m almost exactly the average European height)
That’s a very good thing, not a bad thing. Read this.
Haha then your friend sounds like an idiot. Is he/she a psychologist and relationships expert? I would never want an OLTR who was just one digit off from me. Ugh, how horrible.
They were usually quite the opposite to me or close to it. Again, your friend is a moron.
I don’t have relationships with women who had horrible chemistry with me. These rarely last past the 2nd or 3rd date. That’s the point.
BD,
Have you ever nexted FB or low end MLTR because you met another women you liked more than her?
No. I don’t see the point in doing that.
I have very gently nexted because I got too busy and couldn’t fit all the women into my schedule though.