Opposites Attract (Part 2)
This is part two of an article I wrote on opposites attract right here. Please take a minute and read it if you have not yet; it will put much of this article in context for you and prevent confusion. In that article, I described the overview of why you are attracted to certain women (and why they are attracted to you) and an overview of being complementary versus being compatible.
In this article, I will focus more on techniques you’ll have to employ once you find yourself in a relationship with a woman who is your opposite.
I happen to be an expert at this, at least at this point. As I’ve talked about before, since I have an extreme personality (more extreme than most people), I am most attracted to women who are of the opposite extreme. Most normal people won’t have this trait quite as much as I do, since most people are more balanced.
Since my personality is on the extreme side of the masculine scale, I tend to be most attracted to women on the extreme feminine side of the scale. This accurately describes Pink Firefly, as well as the serious relationship before her (HBM), and a few other women who were important to me in my past.
As I talked about in part one, you will be more attracted to a woman who has lots of traits that are the same as you and opposite to you, and you will be less attracted (or at least experience “typical” attraction) for a woman who has traits all over the place. Please refer to the chart in part one for a visual representation of what I’m talking about.
When you find yourself in a relationship with a woman who only has traits that are identical to yours and opposite to yours, with none in-between, it generally means you get to experience these positives:
1. Heightened mutual emotional attraction. This is obvious. Your attraction for each other will be operating at a higher level. Always a good thing.
2. Heightened mutual sexual attraction. Again, pretty obvious. The sex between the two of you is probably going to be very good; she will (likely) like the way you fuck and vice versa. The physical attraction between the two of you will also be high.
3. Very fast meet-to-sex times. You won’t have to try very hard to get her to have sex with you. In many cases, she’ll practically throw herself at you (particularly if she’s younger and/or has lower ASD).
4. Less drama. People often think that opposites will have more drama than normal couples. Wrong! Couples who have the most drama tend to be people who are very similar to each other, like when an Alpha Male 1.0 gets into a relationship with a Dominant (as I showed in this chart here). When in a relationship with an opposite, you’re not really going to want to argue very much, even if you disagree, since because she’s your opposite, you won’t really give a shit about the things she feels strongly about, and vice versa.
5. Attractive dynamic to other people as a couple. This means that when other people encounter you two, you will put off a more positive, attractive vibe to others. This always happens to me whenever I’m out in public with an opposite woman I’m in a relationship with, and it’s not something I can completely explain. I just know it happens. When out in public, people are going to want to talk to you two and be close to you. For example, several times now, complete strangers have come up to me and Pink Firefly, commenting that we “look like a great couple,” and similar. We even had a guy come up to us in Vegas and tell us that we were the “best looking couple” in the resort. I’m not even good looking (though Pink Firefly is); I think he was commenting on our vibe as a couple, not necessarily our attractiveness.
Those are the positives, and they’re all very nice. However, no extreme condition in life is neutral, so if you are in a relationship with your opposite, you’re also going to have to deal with a few negatives that you likely won’t encounter with other women, including:
1. Difficult communication. This is the biggest one, top of the list. Pink Firefly and I relate to this one personally. Because we are so opposite, we communicate on completely different wavelengths much of the time. (This has been the case with past opposites I’ve been in relationships with as well.) This can cause all kinds of problems, confusion, and misunderstandings if you’re not both very, very careful.
In a less serious relationship (FB or MLTR) this doesn’t really matter. If she doesn’t like the way you communicate (and if she’s your opposite, she won’t), then that’s her fucking problem and she can leave if she doesn’t like it. However, if the relationship is a serious one (as in an OLTR, OLTR Marriage, or high-end MLTR) you and her are going to have to learn how to adjust your communication styles at least some of the time. And here’s the thing: you’re not going to want to do it (and neither will she). Your subconscious mind is going to constantly resist you communicating in any way other than the way you’ve communicated your entire life. The same is true of her when she tries to adjust her communication for you. It’s hard, and it’s not really an issue for normal couples in normal, non-opposite relationships. For example, I had no communication problems with my first wife many years ago; we communicated just fine because we weren’t opposites.
2. Higher propensity for oneitis and betaization. The risk of oneitis and betaization is always an extreme one in all serious relationships, of course, but it’s higher in ones where you’re with your opposite. That’s why, when dating an opposite, you need to be double as careful when it comes to managing your frame, EFA, nonmonogamy, outcome independence, and Alpha Male 2.0 status, as well as waiting a very long time before you even think about getting into an OLTR with her (and if she’s your opposite, you probably will).
The slight good news here is that this increased tendency for oneitis and betaization applies to her as well. You’re more likely to get oneitis and lose your frame with her, but she is more likely to get oneitis for you and lose her frame with you as well.
3. Frequent confusion. This is a minor issue but still a real one. When in a relationship with an opposite, you and her are going to be regularly confused, and thoroughly so, as to why the other person is doing certain things in their lives. She’s going to do things that make absolutely no sense and utterly bewilder you, and vice versa.
Thankfully, if you’re an Alpha Male 2.0, this shouldn’t be a problem, since you should be completely outcome independent as to how she lives her life, particularly the irrelevant (to you) details. But if you’re an Alpha 1.0 or an anal/nerdy beta male, this is going to drive you insane. I’ve seen this happen with many Alpha 1.0s and betas in relationships with opposites. It causes a lot of confusion, snapping at each other, and arguments.
Being in a relationship with an opposite is a higher-work, higher-reward scenario. If you’re a more balanced (“normal”) person, this shouldn’t be an issue to you, and you can simply choose to avoid getting into any ongoing or serious relationships with opposite women if you don’t want to put in this extra amount of work. However, if you have a more extreme personality (like I do) or are only strongly attracted to extreme opposites (like I am), you need to be prepared to put in a little more work (to get a little more rewards too) in any relationship that is serious. (Or you can simply refrain from any serious relationships, which is fine too.)
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This strikes true for me. I am a tall, skinny ass, emotional, feminine and spastic guy who’s the most attracted to calm and collected, masculine and rational short/small women with a cute face, hourglass figure and borderline fat ass. I am sometimes shocked how fat those asses can be compared to the rest of the body yet they mess up with my mind and body like no other, lol. The more they look like a cute little ball of flesh that happens to be also rational and calm, the more instant oneitis I get. It’s insane. As for similarities, they most likely need to be a friendly person for attraction to occur.
I sometimes think about where can I meet more of them.
Women that work as pharmacists are usually more rational and calm (although I don’t think I’ve ever met a pharmacist that was also a cute little ball, they seem to all be thin and/or tall for some reason), as well as some of the times I met an experienced corporate/lawyer type woman I was surprisingly attracted as well even if you judged them as mediocre by the looks alone. For me, the character can quite literally boost physical looks by several points, it’s inseparable for me. A 6/10 by photo can be 10/10 look-wise if she’s the personality type I dig. A 8/10 can be 4/10 if she doesn’t like to smile or is bitchy.
Point me at the direction of those cute balls and I’ll get my running shoes, hair done and run straight to them! They seem to dig the super-spastic, talkative and emotional guys like me.
On the other side of the spectrum, the moment an attractive looks-wise woman opens her mouth and I hear a loud, screechy, high pitched voice (as opposed to those soft and delicate tones of a masculine woman), I want to punch that bitch in her fucking face, stuff her fucking mouth with cotton and throw her under the fucking bus. No offense, but they’re fucking annoying and can’t shut the fuck up. I can’t stand 10 minutes around them without having my blood boiling.
Zaker, are you some sort of a retard, in talking about wanting to punch a woman in the face. Check your anger management dude, as this isn’t a manosphere site where you’d hear that insulting shit.
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You have a severe life problem and need to stop everything and work on your outcome dependence and emotional control.
Greg – Watch the ad homiem please. It’s not allowed here.
Correct.
I recently told one of my MLTRs to do a briggs-meyers personality test. (I’m an INTJ guy.) She scored ESFP.
Would you count that as opoosite? Is more analysis needed? My gut tells me it’s a situation similar to BD’s and PF
More analysis is needed. Myers-Briggs type is a strong indicator but it’s not the entire cookie.
Actually, I’m an INTJ and PF is a ESFJ, so although she’s my opposite, she’s not my literal opposite in Myers-Briggs, since we’re both Js. Thus my point. Myers-Briggs doesn’t tell the whole story.
I appreciate this. I can think of three different occasions where symptoms like this were happening.
lord knows I’m more ready if it comes up again
Professional editor here – in your first paragraph, the word should be “complementary“. Often confused with “complimentary,” though if your gal is looking particularly nice for you today, it’s good to be that, too!
(Sorry, it’s a compulsion. On the positive side, I only correct people whose writing is good enough that it’ll make a difference {;-)
@zaker Yes, a woman’s personality will very much affect how physically attractive you find her, at least after you get to know her.
And yes, an annoying voice is a huge turn off for some of us. I usually just make an effort to avoid such women …. or not ask questions that encourage them to talk. I assume you don’t mean that you literally resort to physical violence in such situations.
Fixed; thanks. I always welcome typo corrections, so thank you (but not grammar corrections; if you don’t like my grammar, fuck off).
It’s not even relevant if he’s viewing this in terms of physical violence or not. He shouldn’t react with anger at all.
1.Bd,from the top of your head,from all of the girls that you have fucked,how many of them had extreme personalities that you were attracted to(like PF has) ,like 5%,3%,1%?
2.Based on your “cream of the crop model”,meaning that you fuck every girl that is higher or at least an 8.How many girls would take to fuck in order to find one like PF ,(a girl who qualifies for an Oltr and is oposite to your personality)?Like 50 girls?30 girls? 80?(in western world)
I’m an extreme introvert who is more logical, non-emotional, and safe in my decisions who is extremely attracted to extreme extroverts who decisions are more emotional, dramatic, impulsive, difficult, and dangerous. But man do they drive me nuts. The connection is so smooth and effortless but once you start making decisions together, maddening. I end up making all the decisions because they can’t. Shit a girl I’m seeing now, I literally order for and make all the decisions when we hang out. She’ll just chatter away while I stare at the menu and decide what both of us want. And asking her to pick something is like I just asked her to build a space ship. Forget it. Drives me nuts but turns me on at the same time.
Great post,BD!
I was attracted to every woman I’ve had sex with sexually. But the vast majority of women I’ve had sex with were FBs or standard MLTRs. There have only been about 6 or 7(?) women grand total who I considered more serious than that. Of those, I’d say 70%(?) were the extreme personalities that I like (just as a guess).
It took me less than about 2 years to find Pink Firefly once I made the solid decision I wanted an OLTR wife. I don’t recall how many new women I had sex with during those two years; that’s something I’d have to look up and calculate. Not tons, but a few.
Read this for more info on your question.
I relate.
Interesting. What would be an example of a woman losing her frame? More intense Disney fantasies?
I cannot resonate with this at all but I’m not saying it couldn’t be true. Well maybe a bit with physical attraction part. I’m fairly big guy and I’ve always loved small petite girls and I prefer blondes although most of my girls are mostly brunettes with green/blue eyes for some reason (I’m pretty dark for a white guy but I have green eyes).
I guess I’m a bit “too balanced” guy who can interact with many kinds of people. Even diversity of my friend groups tell the same tale. I have friends who are nerds, PUAs, high performing alphas, sports jocks, intellectual university people, party/club people etc.
More oneitis for you, more needy/clingy behaviors, more jealousy, and so on.
Good stuff.
I totally get that the main point here relates to traits that both men and women have….but, it got me thinking about the physical side. I’m 46 in 2 days and have never, ever, been remotely in as good of shape as I am now, not even close. I know this is natural for Alpha X.X’s, but I was one of those twerps who was the youngest, and therefore smallest, in my class, at least until about 9th grade. It left a lasting impression.
Now, having been under the barbell for a few months (with a year of bodyweight training before that) I’m showing a level of hypertrophy that would take a woman years to develop. AT 5’9″ & 160#’s, I’m pressing/squatting/deadlifting 80#/155#/195#. Nothing to really brag about, but it has utterly changed my interactions with women, for the most part for the better.
It’s kind of funny….I invested in my real deal barbell set not all that long after the whole pound me too thing got started. In these days of the feminization of men and bending of the genders I took a hard turn the other way. It’s a lot of fun. Women tend to appreciate it, and IOI’s have skyrocketed. They seem to enjoy the polarity. Opposites attract.
Soy boys and hardcore SJW types give me some nasty ass looks. I am definitely starting to see the fuller Alpha 2.0 picture. I can’t have my career and livelihood controlled by such people. And I definitely don’t find masculine women all that attractive, so back under the barbell I go.
Just my $0.02, from the point of view of a recovering Beta.
edit: that’s an overhead press, not a bench press. It’s the overhead press that develops the shoulders, and combines with the lat development from the deadlifts and rows to get that nice v-taper going….the male equivalent of the hour glass.
I have had this problem from virtually all women I fucked and liked much more than others. This increases drama.
This interesting article is very abstract for me. Several detailed examples would be enlightening. Maybe in a 3rd installment?
@ JudoJohn
If I understand correctly you started bodyweight training 2 years ago at 44yo. During one year. Then switched to weight training. Now 1 year of weight training. And now you see significantly visible results in term of physique in the mirror.
What was your weight, let’s say 3 years ago ? And what is your sports/training history before 2 years ago? Have you ever tested your free and/or total testosterone level, what are the results? Also, do you have a profile on the Alpha 2.0 forum?
I ask all these questions because I have been dicking around with weight training, diet and calisthenics since 2014. Now 36yo. But no visible muscle development wich remain similar to those of an old woman. I remain stubbornly very skinny-fat and low energy, 40% fat mass, even with a good BMI at 21.7 right in the middle of the “normal” range.
It’s interesting, because, on the one hand, my girlfriend is not dominant at all. She is an independent with some submissive qualities that manifest themselves only if she has strong feelings for you.
But she is absolutely masculine (and blunt) when it comes to sexual attitudes and sexual philosophy (her sex drive is higher than mine), while feminine as it pertains to many non-sexual things (her pagan beliefs, etc…). She has certain opposite characteristics (and is definitely feminine in terms of her physical appearance), but in reference to sexual attitude, she may even be more masculine than me (but not dominant) – which is saying a lot since I’m a fairly masculine dude.
And yet, we have never clashed sexually because of our sameness. Quite the opposite; that’s what makes us get along great!
lifting is really good for your emotional and phsyiscal health.. important part of being a man.  I’m a few years older than you but I had a guy follow a girl to my house I was hanging out with..  harrassibg her..  he ended up charging me and I had to put him on his ass and restrain him until the police came..  he had at least 50lbs on me..  if I wasn’t doing dead’s, squats and keeping myself in shape I wouldn’t stood a chance..
@Gang Check your testosterone levels. Either this or you are doing something terribly wrong (like diet that you think you are doing when you are actually not).
@X (sorry to all readers, this discussion is completely off topic of the article)
My Total Testosterone is at (normal range for men on result paper 2.40 to 8.71ng/ml)
3.41 ng/ml=341ng/dl
I know it’s low. I am now wondering if with this level it’s even worth trying.
Diet is not the thing I am unsure of since I tracked everything meticulously using cronometer.com I have optimised my diet for optimal T level, protein and each micronutrient even down to antagonist micronutrients balancing. Not drinking, not smoking. This was months prior to measuring T levels.
I am more unsure with the weight training method and wether it’s even worth trying gaining muscle mass with such T level.
I also have a free T level but I can’t seem to make sense of it. I just know it’s really in the low range of the “normal” lab T level range (which of course is really inoptimal).
Free testosterone (N=normal range for men on result paper)Â :
38.9pmol/l (N 30.1 to 189.8)
11.2pg/ml (N 8.7 to 54.7)
I have visited several doctors including an endocrinologist, they all say my T levels are awesome. The last one even told me I should just stop weight training and focus on cardio such as bicycling and running. lol
I clearly have plenty of symptoms related to low or low-ish testosterone, even low-ish bone density (not osteoporosis levels but osteopenia levels).
341 is awesome… for 80 year old maybe… not 36 year old. For 36 year old it should be at least 600.
I went on TRT at 36 when I was getting close to 400.
Just remember that “normal” for allopathic medicine is “not bad enough to get sick yet”. Like 16-19% of bodyfat is normal for 36 year old. 19% is fucking fat, not “normal”.
Detailed examples of what? When a woman loses her frame?
I prefer dating polar opposites now. I’m super analytical and I am totally done dating smart chicks. Fuck that shit. Arguing semantics over who gets the last laugh. In fact, I now go mostly after women who dont speak my native language. Much less bullshit fighting. We communicate on basic terms and don’t get into any deep conversations period. PHilosophy and intellectual or political talk is for my male friends. Life has been much better this way. I now have only flirty interactions with women (unless we’re coworkers) and no more pissing contests with masuline alpha females. Quicker to sex, and better gender dynamics this way.
I’m a socially adept, confident introvert. All the top women in my life have been social extroverts. As others have noted, the thing that attracts you can really piss you off.
I’m surprised you guys took it seriously. Anyways, I’m not being violent or having violent thoughts. I was just exaggerating for the sake of humour and to extrapolate the contrast between the description of my attraction.
As for anger, I’m not reacting with anger, but annoyance. Imo, it’s the same emotion though, just different levels. And you guys admit to doing the same, you just wrote that they “drive you nuts”.
Also the pickup books “MODELS” by Manson and “The Manual” by Anton base exactly on the idea that you should put your personality into an overdrive (honesty, authenticity) to polarize, auto screen and attract those extreme opposites. That’s why those books are mostly based on being direct and authentic, and barely have any “gimmick game” in them, coz you don’t need game to attract the extreme opposite. Few basics may help but that’s it.
Well indeed this point was somewhat abstract but you already kinda clarified it earlier. But no, the most abstract parts for me are:
1. Difficult communication
3. Frequent confusion
I am not sure how these manifest pragmatically in an MLTR or OLTR. I suspect I have them happen a lot. And can they result in drama if mishandled? I probably mishandle these issues. I dunno, it’s kind of abstract, not sure what is the scope of those. Maybe I even sometimes misinterpret some for drama or something.
Generally, it feels to me like each point are very broad and a whole article could be written just with several examples in different contexts. Even maybe with different personality types combinations.
Also I was just thinking: when I do the Briggs-Meyers test, on certain sites such as 16personalities, they give an additional letter in the result:
A- means assertive communication mode/identity.
T- means turbulent communication mode/identity.
https://www.16personalities.com/articles/identity-assertive-vs-turbulent
I am (INTP-A):
Introverted – 75%,
Intuitive – 81%,
Thinking – 89%,
Prospecting – 56%,
Assertive – 86%
Role:Â Analyst
Strategy:Â Confident Individualism
And I was dating this one chick whose communication mode was very T (but she was almost 50% for each other 4 letters of the test, meaning she could be any personality type or was none of them really, like a cameleon for this test). Gosh communicating with her was a pain in the ass especially for agreeing when to meet. Meaning the process of just logistically agreeing about the time when to meet was really complicated. And then on top of this, she was super flaky. I finally decided she is unable to make any firm plan more than 30 minutes in advance and downgraded her to “last minute booty call” FB. But not only that, she would also do and say stuffs that create confusing and frustrating situations. Yet, none of it could clearly be identified as drama directed against me. I did still soft next her several times though.
Later I checked several other women, with whom I had similar but less severe issues, and they all had this T identity in their result on this site.
Hi BD, kind of out of topic question, just a small one.
What do you think of someone like me who doesn’t have much going on in his life at the moment (ie DHV might be a problem) but certainly has enough OI mindset. Does it influence one’s confidence or INNER CONFIDENCE BEATS all.
DHV/logistics issue kind of same problem that makes him whether getting laid or not.
We talk self irrational confidence aka FAKE IT UNTIL YOU MAKE IT.
Nothing “beats all,” but as I’ve said many times, I’ve known guys who were near-homeless, had no money, weren’t good looking, slept on friend’s couches, who got laid left and right with cute girls. Having money or other external SMV helps, but it’s not the be-all.
I married at 23 and was fat by 28…..I ran about 180 to 190#’s until I was about 42. I bumbled into a LTR with a hot VYW at 41….2 years in we knew we’d break up when she went to grad school, and she wanted to lose weight, so we walked every damned morning for about 1.5 years….long walks, we were out 1.5, sometimes 2 hours. Plus, she counted calories like a madwoman. That got me down to the 160’s.
I have dabbled in judo for a while….in retrospect, it was absolutely foolish to do so without lifting. Heavy squats (and short runs) protect the knees.
I’m curious about testosterone levels. I simply couldn’t imagine that they’re low.
Probably should. I derive much benefit from the manosphere, but BD’s my favorite guy exactly because happiness is the goal. Too much Anger Phase in much of the manosphere.
Get that deadlift over 225 and stay there. Granted, I’m much younger than you, but when I started going to the gym my DL skyrocketed and now I consider 300 as an absolute baseline, ie I shouldn’t fall below it even in hard times (eg months of stress, bad sleep, infrequent gym, etc, though I’m working on eliminating those episodes from my life). So 225 sounds like a good baseline for someone in their mid-late 40s.
@Gang: have you considered exercise frequency and intensity as a factor? The way I see it, no one who isn’t very overweight can do frequent, intense exercise consistently for months and stay at 40% fat. Unless they’re seriously overestimating how “intensely” they’re training, or they’re eating a lot of junk.
I bet she’s real fun, as in down to have a good time with minimal inhibitions.
I have studied MBTI and now DiSC a great deal.  I’m frankly surprised that BD and PF are as good a match as they are.  ESFJs are hell bent on tradition and thin skinned, sensitive, and usually very controlling.  BD is clearly not that guy.
Any two personalities can have a good relationship. Â My happiest two were my INTJ ex wife and my INFP ex girlfriend.
I’m ENTJ, fwiw.
Yeah, the first three apply to PF to some degree, though she’s not controlling. (She would not have lasted past the 2nd date with me if that were the case.)
As a fellow INTJ, I really like this bit. So finding PF was not the result of happenstance, but rather a conscious decision to go out and “recruit” a suitable OLTR woman.
I find I have the best success when I go into a project with a focused, concrete goal.
(That’s how I found my best, longest, and most successful LTR – just like recruiting for an employee, I was looking for a woman to fill a very specific role on my life. It eventually ended, but unlike back in my AFC days, I expected that and was OK with it.)
Precisely! This is why I can’t stand women who are sexually feminine. At least in my experience, their sex drives are ridiculously low, but if they’re the submissive/feminine type, they will pretend otherwise just to make you happy, thus turning themselves into prostitutes who fake having fun, while they cry on the inside.
I can’t stand this! A long, long, long time ago (a little over 10 years ago in fact) I fucked a woman exactly like this. It was the worst sex I ever had. It felt like fucking a hooker. Although she seemed to enjoy herself during the sex, it was clear that she was just lonely and was using the sex just as an excuse to emotionally connect with someone. It was disgusting.
She talked about having threesomes and group sex with me in the future (which never happened), but only to dangle a carrot in front of my nose so I wouldn’t leave her. That’s the feminine/submissive sexuality that I’ve experienced, and it makes me sick.
She eventually introduced me to my final monogamous girl who was a major sex kitten who ended up cheating on me while I was cheating on her with an IRS agent, but I digress.
The point is that girly Disney girls are a big no-no for me. I need a woman with a massive sex drive and overwhelming sexual enthusiasm for all the freaky shit I like, like partner switching, etc… This usually means masculine, independent women only (with feminine physical appearances).
So while Roosh and the rest of the manosphereans go to savage shit holes to find their Disney women, I just dump them like radioactive waste and have fun with the “masculine” women who can’t get enough dick instead.
In other news, my girlfriend told me just today that she fucked her 100th guy yesterday! Yay!
(completely off topic)
@JudoJohn
Thanks for your answer.
I am not sure if my understanding is correct : that means from 28 to 42 you were 180lbs ~ 190lbs, 82kg ~ 86kg So at 5’9″=175cm your BMI was 82/(1.75*1.75)=26.8 ~ 86/(1.75*1.75)=28.1 range overweight.
You never did any sport besides Judo wich didn’t involve anything such as running cycling or weigh/resistance training.
At 41 you walked and dieted wich resulted in weight loss dropping to 160lbs = 72kg BMI 23.51 range normal.
You were never skinny, possibly always had at least a “normal” amount of muscles under the fat.
Then you started resistance training 2 years ago and possibly lost even more fat and gained more muscles.
I am BMI 21.7, right in the middle of the normal range. But I have 40% bodyfat (dexa scan measurement). My muscle mass is super low for a man, when I do resistance training and eat calories surplus with clean food tracked like a food psychopath I see no increase whatsoever in muscle mass after up to 6 months in a row of minimum 3 times per week resistance training. Then I get a cold or some other sickness and just give up because lost motivation (it’s all effort and zero result at this point so it’s hard to stay motivated).
I am super consistent with food however. I can decide to be any weight and plan my food intake accordingly, with a balanced diet, and reach the desired weight in a few months or years, with clear visible change. I the past 5 years I have been able to both reach my lowest weight at 52kg and highest weight at 67kg. But it’s the fat mass that varies, my muscle mass seems stubbornly constant no matter the exercise amount or intensity.
@X
Like I said I have tracked food very precisely. So this is one parameter I am sure of. I have a dexa scan so I am sure of the body composition measurement.
Intensity and consistency I don’t have a scientific and objective measurement of the exercise I do indeed. I am even considering buying a smart wrist wearable to track it and have more data in a year or 2 to confront doctors and also set definitely see if I can or cannot have progress in energy level and muscle mass with usually recommended exercise amount and intensity for this purpose. All I can say is I really give all during training, I really feel tired. Then my muscle feel really sore next 2 days. Consistency no, each time I lost motivation after several months of seeing no muscle mass gain whatsoever. The longest I have been consistent was 6 months in a row then I have had a road accident and stopped for 3 months before starting again resistance training. I tried several programs : 4 hour body, the hard gainer solution, lastly I was doing convict conditioning plus some weight lifting. Nothing produced any significant effect for me.
However, even when I don’t do weigh training, I still walk over 30min per day or much more, and I’d say I have sex, 5hours per week in average, distributed in 3 to 5 days. (3 to 5 women in a week). These 2 parts are very consistent.
I was indeed trying to get a sense of consistency and timeline of miscular gains when asking Judojohn because I misunderstood his first comment about being small or something and thought he started skinny. But no, he just clarified that he started completely opposite BMI range than me.
But seeing my testosterone is low, I think I just have a body that just doesn’t respond to resistance training. Perhaps it could respond a little bit with crazy efforts like dedicating my whole life to that and super specific training, I dunno. But I feel I am in a case where without hormone therapy, I have 2% chance of ever reaching a visible change in my physique in term of muscle mass. And doctors I have seen are all saying my T levels are awesome, even when I tell them they are levels of 80yo men.
Note that I am 40% fat but this is not the main problem, I can easily loose weight with dieting and physical activity. Loosing weight is actually what happens if I eat without dieting, tracking that I eat enough calories. If I were to loose all excess fat (and still keep an healthy amount of fat) I would appear really skinny and my BMI would be in the unhealthily very very underweight somewhere in the 15. The problem is my muscle mass is really low, like my muscle mass index is lower than the average for women my age. I am probably in the 2% lowest muscle mass of men my age.
Having more fat than necessary makes a bit of an optical illusion and I don’t look too sickly skinny, I look more normal-ish. Indeed my BMI is then in the normal range instead of being in the super underweight range.
Umm, anything above 30% is considered a legit health risk, my dude. I’m at 25% myself, but that’s only cuz I eat a lot of junk food (but I’m also active every day). Anyone can get in shape if they just eat better, do 100 push ups a day, and runs (not jogging, but walking combined with sprints) three miles a day. Hell just the push ups and the running WITH the junk food will get anyone in shape if done for a long time. Anyone with a body fat% over 20 should be doing cardio daily. Three miles a day. Do it or die early. Literally. I’m in that boat too btw, going out for my daily runs is time consuming and some days I don’t want to do it but I have to if I want to live past, we’ll say, 60 or so.
And every human being on the planet needs to be doing 50-100 push ups per day. Shoulders hurt when you do them? Then you’re not doing them properly. Watch some Athlean-X on youtube and learn. Too fat to do them? Then do “bitch-ups (push ups on your knees).”
Getting back to the topic, being an introverted person similar to BD, I guess I am more attracted to really outgoing party chicks. But they do bring out the Alpha 1 in me when they getting too crazy with the partying. My last gf liked drinking a lot and told her that if she wanted to be with me she could hit the bottle a little bit, but not to where you turn psycho. Nearly everyone I know who drinks does some Jekill and Hyde nonsense when they drink to where they are really cool and chill sober, awesome people to be with a couple drinks in, but total assholes when they drink hard. So I don’t like that. My stepdad is the most recent case of this, where he drank and threatened to fight me one day, but then got all one-itis for me the next. People who develop multiple personalities when they drink get a hard no from me.
So if I’m looking for short term, I’ll go for the party girls. If I want a chick I can actually have sex with more than three times, I’m going for chicks who act like me. Avoid drugs, just chill, not interested in running their mouth all the time. lol.
Are those high singles? Triples? Fives? I’m pretty sure you can hit each of those for at least triples if you’re in decent shape. Especially the overhead press, you should be able to get at least 95 easily, seeing as mass doesn’t play too much a part in the press. The other two, mass has an advantage. I have very short legs, so I can squat like crazy if I really dedicated myself to it. If I did nothing but focus on squats for a year, I’d probably be able to get 405 up easily for a single.
In 2014, a year after I began lifting somewhat seriously (I had always dabbled, but never legit got under the bar), my press/bench/squat/deadlift at 135/265/325/345 for singles. That’s with me at 31, 5’8” 215 lbs. And at 26% body fat.
I’m currently taking time off weights for awhile so I can focus on getting thinner. Putting on mass will only make me more fat lol. I also want to be able to do 100 push ups in one set and 5 pull ups in one set. I can currently do 40 push ups in one set and 2 pull ups in one set.
joelsuf,
5 X 5’s, I’m still a noob and following Stronglifts almost slavishly. I do “old guy deloads” whenever I feel my form is slipping. It was not a great financial decision, but I made a snap decision, drove down to the sporting goods store, and invested in a real deal Olympic half rack and bench. I gave away my dining room table and got under the bar. I’ll eventually move on from Stronglifts, but because I’m an old dude training alone, I am hyper vigilant about injury. The overhead press is far and away my favorite lift. I’d be tickled if I could get to my bodyweight.
Gang,
Heh…..well, before I got married the first time, I was more like 130#’s, a skinny little fuck….but your overall point is correct, I was never a metabolic nightmare or anything like that. In terms of where you are…man, I guess I’m just lucky.
BD, I hope you don’t feel that the fitness conversation is too off topic. You were talking more about intellectual and emotional differences. Still, with blobs everywhere we look, being a man who works out hard and shows off is another type of opposite. I’m a big proponent of women getting under the bar too, or at least some sort of resistance training….but with few exceptions, they will not have the hypertrophy we men can generate.
It’s completely off topic, but off topic conversations are allowed here; I just don’t participate in them.
Sorry to hear that. From your comment it looks like you’re one of the minority of so-called “non-responders”, ie people who don’t gain much strength or mass from weight training (one last thing to check is protein intake though: you won’t gain much muscle if you’re not having around 2 grams per kilo of bw, preferably animal protein too). But if you can at least get that bodyfat % lower do it. Once under 20%, and seeing that you walk that much and exercise regularly, you shouldn’t have a problem as far as women are concerned. Most aren’t even that much into super bulky guys anyway; at 5’8-5’10, I feel that being over 160lbs with a 4-pack already gets women interested provided the other factors are in order.
Also I agree with Joelsuf about the main lifts. Right now I’m dealing with a big clusterfuck so I can’t train much or eat right, but as soon as it’s dealt with I’ll resume doing at least bench presses (or one-arm pushups) and deadlifts. I’d hate myself to be under 180/300 on those two, and 225/380 is much better (and where I was circa 2014-2016).
@Judojohn, X and Joelsuf, thank you for the inspiring replies 🙂
@Antekritt
Food intake, especially protein intake I tracked meticulously. It’s the one parameter I am sure of. And I agree with you that sufficient protein intake is necessary.
I also think I am a “non responder”. I am now 90% sure that without HRT I can’t see perceptible muscle development no matter what I do. But anyways, I’ll still try harder for a couple more years and see what happens.
For women, I am 174cm 5’8″. I often get comment from them as “your body looks like a woman”, “why are you so skinny, you don’t want to have muscles?”, etc… But I generally have about 10 women in rotation, fucking 3 to 5 per week. So for those who think it’s impossible if you’re not jacked and ripped… You may want to reconsider. However I do agree that height and muscles are in fact very important factors and it’s much easier if you won the genetic lottery, I have friends who prove this point. A big game changer for me was nomadism and moving to countries where women are more attractive for me and they are more attracted to me, because I am perceived exotic and/or higher status.
No, my main other problem besides muscle development isn’t my women life at this point. My problems are low energy levels, poor focus & motivation and poor sleep quality. All of which are commonly linked to low-ish testosterone levels. These doctors really are a joke denying this well known fact.
When I first read Blackdragon’s posts about testosterone and how his body and perception changed with HRT/TRT, while his T levels were already significantly better than mine in the first place, I suddenly had this “Eureka” moment and decided to get my levels checked. From further research I concluded before doing the blood tests that I was “low-ish” but not “clinical low”, probably somewhere between 250 and 400 of total testosterone. The blood test results later confirmed my deductions.
Yup big time fact. Im masculine rational and introvert (INTJ) and i only reallu click with extrovert irrational feminine girls. It gets insane and mindnumbing sometimes but sex is awesome
This is for Gang.
You have low free T because you have high SHBG which comes from estrogen overloading. This DOES impact greatly your effective T.
Estrogen is produced by bodyfat which contains aromatase, turning T into E.
In short: you HAVE TO get down the estrogen to raise your T which means bodyfat reducing.
Step 1: ONLY heavy weights. Â No gay-ass bodyweight training. No P90x. No cardio etc. Â You need to be on a REAL program like starting strength. Nothing else will so vastly spike free T, lower E, and consume insane amounts of calories physically reshaping. (because it impacts so much structurally: bones, tendons, ability to have your spine and connective tissue carry heavy weight.) Â this means 3×5 squatting deadlifting just read the book and hopefully add in some conditioning. You could also look at Pavel and kettlebell training but honestly your best bet is starting strength.
Step 2: if you have low calcium or bone mass or something, take collagen and calcium possibly (less sure on this one. Â I just know you NEED collagen and glucosamine etc if you are serious about starting strength.)
Step 3: just inhibit the aromatase. Seriously. There are over the counter meds to do this. Best I’ve found is Eliminate. But smarter is cat’s claw, Â an herb that is estrogen blocking. Bodyfat has a way of being self-perpetuating (the aromatase). Literally the only way to get rid of it is take the meds and crush that thing. Â Once you shed the bodyfat it won’t come back so quickly. The rich get richer in this case. Â Just take the meds until you are down to twenty. You might not even feel like eating fats carbs anymore (as your body sheds fat quickly). Â There might be some painful days but take the cat’s claw until you get that “low estrogen” feeling and keep running with it.
Step 4: could be all kinds of other issues, mental, physical, etc. But you can’t solve everything (immediately anyway ). Lift heavy, mix in caveman style conditioning (prowler is great. So are stair carries. Just anything that gives you “flow” and insane T surging! ). And take the meds to reduce the E. Keep taking them. That’s the ONLY way I found to slice bodyfat and since then for me it’s stayed clean.
It’s an interesting theory, albeit maybe a bit simplified.
There are some things that have to be the same:
1. same place, same time. Proximity. The ultimate arbiter of who smashes pissers.
In my own history, admittedly, I chase looks first. But I guess you were talking about LTR.
For me personally, some things have to be the same for long term:
1. Modern chick aka not a big Jesus thumper or nutter. Won’t gasp at profanities.
2. Related. Sexually open. Preferably high sex drive. Likes blowjobs, a lot. Oddly enough I get along well with chicks that have a very “male” sexuality — constantly horny, want to fuck, like dirty texts and pictures. I’m not even super gung-ho doing that, but it’s great to have to do “no work” on that side. Maybe that is opposite of me somehow — I’m not really a thrill of the chase guy, more like minimal effort.
I’ve never been with a chick who was sexually dominant so who knows. Most women/ female sexuality in general is naturally submissive so I would assume most men enjoy that. I can imagine a dominant chick might be fun because “dominating” a strong woman might in some ways make you feel even more dominant/ her more submissive than conquesting just a tiny asian girl who rolls over for you and makes fakes squeaks. Sexuality is a complicated thing.
I think ultimately — the main reason OPPOSITE personalities are better long term, is just there is more mystery, discovery, fun, interesting things there.
I’ve date French, Korean, Chinese, Indian, Russian chicks among others (foreign born and raised, not a Chinese American woman who is culturally identical besides FOB parents, be honest).
It’s just more interesting the completely different experiences, values, stories, thoughts, vocabulary, language, ‘cultural programming’ (and yes even YOU have cultural programming of some sort, even BD does, we all do, no man is an island, no man has “no accent”). And you won’t discover what “Chicago” or “Alabama” or “American” programming you have until you meet someone without it. And it’s not just geographical, it’s life experience, social circles, etc.
Familiarity breeds contempt. For me personally? I meet a Midwestern corn-fed white girl who is somewhat smart/ nerdy like me and leans liberal? Jesus titty-fucking Christ I’d get bored. I’d be able to predict most of her opinions and bah.
Then again, I have an identical twin brother and we get along fine these days (really went at it in youth). But that might be because at this point, almost no judgment is given for even the foulest of thoughts and language. And … we get together maybe once every two weeks, we aren’t living together where we’d for sure go at it.
There is a natural human inclination towards bio-diversity. Hence the impulse to fuck “exotic” chicks. Yes, that logic is considered heinous to SJWs. And “exotic” always has connotations of race, but meh. I’d argue Russian white chicks are almost a different species than English/ Irish — there is no overlap in facial structures at all. That doesn’t mean much, just a different beautiful face to fuck. Variety is the spice of life. Also why I personally love fuck Indian, arab, persian, and some day black chicks (haven’t managed to fuck any black girls yet sadly). Sadly there is a stigma and the girls will ask if you’re having sex with them to check off some racial box. Honestly, no. If the girl is hot, she’s hot. And she does get bonus points for not being a corn-fed Midwestern Irish-German white chick, but not because I’m trying to fill a diversity card, it’s my nature. Honestly I have had/ would have LTRs with a lot of these women.
I know this one chick who’s half black/ half filipino. God damn seems like everyone wants to fuck her in a 10 mile radius.
Yeah it’s somewhat racial but it’s just a “uniquely” looking hot chick. Like say if LOTR elves suddenly were walking around, wouldn’t you want to fuck an elf? Our the blue chicks from avatar? That’s just male genetics.
So yeah it’s biodiversity, but also just more mystery + interest with someone from a different world/ life. I think introvert/ extrovert usually pairs well too for obvious reasons. One person like to talk, the other prefers not to carry most of the conversational load.
So yeah if there are any French half-black/ half-asian chicks who like to fuck all the time, are Godless, submissive, feminine, and will do most of the talking — send them this way.
“Nothing “beats all,” but as I’ve said many times, I’ve known guys who were near-homeless, had no money, weren’t good looking, slept on friend’s couches, who got laid left and right with cute girls. Having money or other external SMV helps, but it’s not the be-all.”
@BD:Â I’ve heard you say this multiple times in your blog posts, and that always confuses me. I’m sure it’s true, some minor experience and intuition on my part says it’s true, but I can’t for the life of me explain why that is. What’s the x factor that overcomes all that negative value SMV? Force of personality? Good looks? Extroversion? Masculinity?