You just had a great first date. When do you hit her up again to schedule the second date?
You’ve been dating for seven months and she just dumped you. When do you text her again?
She just responded to your message on Bumble. Should you respond immediately or wait a little bit first?
Exactly when to text or message a woman during certain dating or relationship scenarios are some of the most common questions I receive.
Most guys tend to lean in the direction of the “old school” advice of waiting a while before responding to a woman. The rationale is that if you respond too quickly you’ll come across as too needy, too thirsty, or too beta, and your attraction will be damaged. Better to wait a little bit, let her wonder a little bit, play it cool and then respond.
This is… correct.
But…
It’s not that simple.
As I talked about recently, we don’t live in the world that I grew up in where there was no internet, no Tinder, no Instagram, no hordes of thirsty beta males slobbering over every cute girl online, and no guys using red pill or pick-up artist game. Playing it cool and “waiting to call her back” back in those days was indeed the correct play. Waiting a while to contact a woman does indeed increase attraction, or at least it doesn’t damage it. It might piss her off, but sometimes frustration and attraction are the same thing, as I explained here.
However! Today, in the modern era, if you wait too long, even if you’re waiting for reasons that I agree with, you’ll probably lose out to the next guy in the long list of guys she has in front of her. Women move on to new partners or potential partners very fast, much faster than men. You can’t afford to wait. Not anymore.
The only time this doesn’t apply is when a woman who was in a sexual relationship with you dumps you. Now you’ll have to wait a very long time to contact her in any way, ideally six months or longer, four months at the bare minimum, as I explain here. She’s probably already moved on to another man, and while she’s with that new man, you need to stay far, far away. If you bug her while she’s with that new guy, her attraction for you drops to almost zero. If you instead vanish out of her life, when she dumps that new guy (or gets bored with him or upset with him, all of which she will do since long-term monogamy doesn’t work), her mind may actually wander back to you. This has happened with scores of women I’ve dated in the past.
The problem with both of these techniques is these are literally the opposite of what your brain will want to do.
When that cute girl you opened on Bumble responds to you, you will probably want to wait a little bit before you fire off a message back to her. All that dating advice about frame, inner game, and being a “real Alpha” will make you feel weird if you instantly respond to her. Yet responding to her instantly is indeed the correct thing to do in this case.
Conversely, when your amazingly hot MLTR suddenly does a LSNFTE and dumps your ass for a beta male, everything in your biology is going to scream at you to text the fuck out of her and try to use every trick in the book in order to get her back. Yet doing that will actually increase the odds that you’ll never have sex with her ever again. It’s the exact wrong thing to do.
Below is a list of many common dating and relationship scenarios of exactly when you should text a woman. If you follow it to the letter, your results with women will improve. If you violate it, you’ll have less sex and/or more drama and woman problems in your life. This is the most updated list I have and supersedes any similar lists I’ve posted about these things in the past. Note that these time frames are when you initiate contact. Obviously if she contacts you first before you contact her, you are free to have a conversation with her at that time (with the exception of when you’re doing a soft next).
After scheduling a first date via online dating: 2-3 days later, then the same day of the first date to confirm everything.
Just after the first date: Any time the next day.
Just after the second date if sex did not occur: Any time the next day.
You just got her number from a daygame approach: The next day, or that evening if you met her in the morning.
Just after having sex with her the first time: The very next morning, and very nice. Read this if you want to know why.
After having sex with her twice on two separate occasions: 0-2 times per week is ideal. Three times per week is not ideal and is really pushing it. More than three times per week is very bad and is a boyfriend behavior.
After she dumps you: Six months or longer is ideal, and the longer, the better. Four months is the absolute minimum.
After she ignores two contacts from you in a row on two separate occasions (texts, social media messages, whatever): If you’ve never had sex with her or only had sex with her once, she’s gone forever. Don’t bother texting her again and move on to other women. If you had sex with her at least twice, consider yourself dumped, so it’s the same rules as above (six months).
After a soft next (remember that soft nexting only applies to women you’ve had sex with at least twice): usually 48 hours to seven days. You also need to ignore all contact she makes with you during the soft nexting period. Stay strong and don’t fuck this up! Read this for more information.
After a hard next: Never. Hard nexts are permanent. Move on to other women.
After you leave town and you’ll be gone for more than a week: If she’s an MLTR, once a week. If she’s an FB, once every other week.
Timely advice. It seems the “rules” have changed, with texting and online interactions becoming more and more common, so what applied even 10 years ago isn’t necessarily what applies now. I was having some issues with this and the article cleared up some things, so thanks a lot, BD.
The real issue today is just trying to get the first message/response (whether it be from dating sites/apps/daygame) in the first place because for shit sake, it sure feels like a Herculean effort just to try to get 1 response now adays. Not gonna lie, it can get very very discouraging and asking yourself: “why am I bothering with this crap when not getting anything at all???” when you have a long string of no replies at all/ dry-spell
I agree, with women having turned flaking into an art form, I think you have to learn to tease a woman in your texting and be amusing to her. Not unless you’re extremely good looking of course, so it is a lot tougher to get a woman to meet up and who answers their fucking smartphone these days, or responds to voicemail. Women use their smartphone to screen calls, unless they’re from a close friend and from family members they know.
That’s in the 2 contexts most guys are dealing with, as in someone you’ve:
1] only chatted to online from a dating site and/or a dating app, but you haven’t met her in person yet.
2] cold approached in day or night game and you got her phone number, but women giving their number doesn’t mean anything anymore. It could be she didn’t think much of the interaction, or she did think it was ok, but later has buyer’s remorse, for whatever reason.
I was texting a chick I had chatted to online and hadn’t met in person, so I suggested a coffee meet. She said why not skip that and come to my place for sex. I said sure, let’s do it. She gave her home address, then she got busy with her work and I couldn’t get the fucking bitch to reply back after that. My guess is she met someone else.
Great and to-the-point article, BD.
Two short questions:
1. When a woman leaves you because she hated your guts and gets a boyfriend how could you tell if he is a beta? Is plastering his face on her Instagram account a possible sign that he is a beta?
2. During your adviced months long no contact, what does it mean when she blocks you? Does it mean she got pissed by you not chasing her and therefore that the strategy possibly had the opposite effect?
If you were constantly trying to contact her and she blocks you, it probably means she doesn’t want to talk with you (duh). If you never contacted her and she blocked you, it’s probably just histrionics, trying to make a point that she’s over you.
Ha! I had a woman contact me and apologize for blocking me earlier and saying that she had removed the block. I figured it would have been rude to tell her that I hadn’t actually noticed.
“However! Today, in the modern era, if you wait too long, even if you’re waiting for reasons that I agree with, you’ll probably lose out to the next guy in the long list of guys she has in front of her. Women move on to new partners or potential partners very fast, much faster than men. You can’t afford to wait. Not anymore.”
===
So my question is that if women move faster today in general as you use to reason why we should move faster initially today compared to 5 or 10 years ago, should we ALSO consider shortening the 4-6 months waiting period for when they leave us to text them again?
Say to 2 or 3 months instead of 4 to 6?
Cuz if mono relationships are becoming harder & harder, shorter and shorter, especially in the 40s age range, it seems that this waiting period should also be shortened maybe as well? Or at least be tested some. People are probably less patient today then they were just 5 years ago right. Could we also lose out on some boomerangs by waiting a little too long in today’s 2020 environment?
Thanks!
==
I could not remember my login info nor retrieve it so hope I choose the correct one to comment! But if not, let me know and I’ll fix it.
I dun goofed on this with the last chick I had sex with. Waited a day and some change, got meh responses. Then got no responses lol. Whoops.
I see the changes BD made here. In his online dating book, he said it was two days. I guess it’s now been shortened to one day. Makes sense to me, I suppose I should make those adjustments too going forward.
One question I have that isn’t answered and I don’t think you’ve answered a lot, is what to do about the women that contact me every single day. I think you explained in your book to ween them back to maybe 3 days a week by not responding every other day, but here in this post you are saying I can respond anytime she contacts me first it sounds like. If I do this, they will be communicating with me every day.
That means you’re doing the same thing over and over again without adjusting your techniques or approach. If what you’re doing isn’t working, try something else. Then do it again. Then do it again. Don’t keep doing the same thing over and over again and driving yourself crazy.
Irrelevant. You shouldn’t care.
Again, you shouldn’t care. (I have had sex with tons of girls who blocked me temporarily after a LSNFTE.)
NOOOOOO. I said women move on faster once a breakup has occurred. I never said they start having a roaming eye in 2-3 months now instead of 4-6. (Barring the rare exceptions to the rule.)
Sure, instead of 5 years it’s now 3 years (or whatever). You’re talking about changing 4-6 months to 2-3 months. Haha, no. I promise you that won’t work. If you don’t believe me, just try it.
Ah, so I have answered that. 🙂
Pre Lock-In, absolutely.
After Lock-In, if she’s texting you literally every day, obviously that is bad and something you need to ween (reduce). Having a text conversation with a woman literally every day is a massive boyfriend behavior (as well as a beta behavior) even if she initiates it and will murder attraction and drive the odds of drama skywards.
I mean, shit, my own wife doesn’t text me every day even during weeks I barely see her. Same deal when she was an OLTR before we lived together too.
“try something else, and then do it again”… well yep that’s exactly what I’ve done and continue trying to do! I’ve used the information and advice from some of your books and still go through dry-spells. I think maybe there is a very unestimated aspect of the “numbers game” that even I didn’t realize just how many dang numbers a guy seemingly has to go through: because like I said in my previous comment for christ sakes it sure can get discouraging after awhile when a guy is going through the numbers doing his best and still not really getting much out of it.
What do you recommend to send as a text message to a MLTR or FB in this once a week or every other week scenario when you’ve left town for a month or so?
@Keith – Have you tried using multiple dating apps? I use Tinder, Bumble, and Hinge right now and that combo gets me more than enough dates. Keep trying stuff until you find out which apps work best for your area. Also, if you’re over 35, it helps to set your age younger, then in the very beginning of your profile write “Actually [your real age]” then continue with your bio.
What do you recommend to send as a text message to a MLTR or FB in this (once a week/every other week) scenario when you’ve left town for a month or so?
Send nothing during your time out of town. Respond if she initiates. When returned:
You: Hi!
Her: Hello
You: How are you doing?
Her: Good, what about you?
You: Better than I deserve! Lets hang out sometime this week
<date logistics>
Just a normal conversation, the kind you’d have in person except over texts and shorter.
If you’re gone for just a week or two, perhaps. But if you’re gone for a month or more, that is not advised. A month of being gone is a very long time and it’s very hard to maintain a link with that much absence, especially for an MLTR. You need to do your best to maintain that link. And even then, it still may not work.
Anyone being out of town for 30 days or longer needs to assume in advance that some of your FBs and MLTRs will move on even if you do everything else correctly. (This includes me when I do it; none of us are immune.)
if she doesnt respond or responds negatively do you try to convince her or do you just message her again after 6 months? Or never?
what if she doesnt agree to a meet up but keeps replying to your messages? To me that obviously means there is some interest but perhaps not strong enough to return so im not sure just giving it time of no contact helps.
What if you already schedule a second date on the first date, do you still need to message her the next day / in between?
I know you know the answer to that question.
I know you know the answer to that question.
Yes! Women flake. The goal is to reduce the flaking odds.
But what about saying that I know she really does want to because of course why wouldnt she and i proceed to push for a meet anyway even though she said no? This would be in line with your other recent post about needing to be more pushy or does this not apply to returning women? That is what I am confused about – do you play it cool with returning women or are you extremely pushy like with new women?
BD,
By immediate, are we talking within minutes? Or would replying to a bumble first message from a girl, within an hour, count as immediate? (Usually I’m busy and wouldn’t be able to respond literally immediately).
Also, side note: I’m seeing ads on this page for a site called “textyourexback [dot com]”. I’m sure these ads are just put here via algorithms, but a site that proposes that you can text back your ex isn’t really in line with the no contact for 4-6 months espoused here. Just the heads up.
Then what would you do?
I know you know the answer to that question.
Or less. Yes.
Just respond as fast as you can. An hour is better than six hours, five minutes is better than an hour, 20 seconds is better than five minutes.
Yeah. Nitpick the ads. Good use of your time.
If a FB dumps you by ignoring two contacts from you in a row on two separate occasions, you wait 6+ months, and she responds to your text message with, “Sorry, new phone, lost my contacts, who’s this?”, what is your recommendation as a response to this situation?
Normal and happens all the time. Just say, “It’s Joe. How are you?” Then have a conversation. If she immediately ghosts/blocks you instead, wait 12 months and try again.
Thank you BD.
What if she responds, “Joe who? Sorry, I know a few Joe’s.”
Dude, seriously, do I have to hold your hand through this? Just tell her who you are. “I’m the Joe who hung out with you a few times back in March. How’s your life been?”
So there are different timescales for different situations? Up till now I thought you always advise 4-6 months and then repeat till she comes back. Is this just a rough guideline to make it longer if the response is none or overly negative or do you have specific time scales for specific situations?
What if she left you not because of another guy but because of X reason but did not find a new guy yet… (let’s say I have a way to know that in some cases, with reasonable accuracy). Do I still contact her if the amount of time has elapsed or do I need to wait till she has gone through a relationship.
Yes. With every failure to bring her back you increase the time. 4-6 months (6 months is better), then try it (unless you know she has a new boyfriend). If she ignores you or denies you, then go 8-12 months and try again. If she ignores or balks a 2nd time, go 15 months and then try again. Rinse and repeat.
4-6 months is just the first time, and in most cases (more than 50%) that’s all you need.
No change. Wait 4-6 months, check to see if she has a new guy, if she doesn’t, then go ahead. Again to repeat though, 4-6 months is the minimum, not a maximum. Waiting around 8-12 months is better.
I am applying this piece of advice of yours and I am already 7 months in no contact and I don’t intend to break it. I already had 5 more women in my bed after her thanks to your amazing articles and the Unchained Man book. On top of it, she blocked me as soon as she got a boyfriend (which was 7 months ago) – so technically I cannot contact her even if I wanted to.
My last question on this topic is: doesn’t seem needy to try to get back in contact with a woman periodically so many times, as you suggest? Why not just let her come back to you, if ever, without you contacting her at all? Isn’t this more Alpha 2.0?
Oh I didn’t know that. Is that something new you discovered? I don’t think I heard you ever mention that before.
Isnt it gonna be too long at some point like several years? At which point if you take into account the ageing of the woman it becomes irrelevant to try to get her again or she might not remember who you are? Although I did get a girl I did not talk to 7 years so I guess its possible.
Do you chat back and forth for a while before pitching a meet or do you ask her out after 2-3 replies?
I feel that is a good sign. Means she is still interested. It means to me that she needs to block to make sure she doesn’t meet you when she has the boyfriend. So as soon as hes gone you will prob be unblocked. I have seen women unblock guys later (including myself).
Some will, some won’t. Some will only if you contact them. It is potentially an easy and time efficient way to get women. Plus you already know what youre getting, that is a huge advantage. I can imagine a scenario when you had so many girls spread over so much time that your source of “new” women is only women you dated in the past and yet this is more than enough. To me that sounds amazing.
If you’re new to this then you have to be careful because most likely you didn’t do enough to get away with contacting them right away. Once you’re good at first meets it’s less of an issue. I have contacted women on the way home, the next day or not at all. I try to avoid first date lays but if I can still smell there pussy on my fingers I might contact them on the way home to set up the a date for the next night or night after to seal the deal. Any longer than that you might become a regret. Or I might just wait. Depends on her vibe or if I really want to take things farther. More art than science imho.
It’s not “so many times.” “So many times” is usually one time. When it’s not one time, it’s literally two or three times over a period of several years. So no.
Good question.
Attitudinally, yes, it would be more Alpha 2.0 (uber-Alpha 2.0!) to never initiate contact with any LSFNTE woman and only wait for the ones who initiate first to come back, losing all the rest. And if you wanted to do that, I would absolutely not object and I would congratulate you on your outcome independence. Well done.
At the same time, logistics are still a factor in real life. So if you want to contact a LSNFTE woman once or twice over a multi-year period, that’s not “needy” needy in my book, and more importantly, it will save you from having to go on some first and second dates, which means from a time management and effectiveness point of view it’s a valid Alpha 2.0 technique.
The problem is when guys really do hit up women “so many times,” over and over again. That’s extremely beta, even when Alpha 1.0s do it (and they do). An Alpha 2.0 would never do such a thing. (A true Alpha 2.0 would never want to.)
If a woman texts you that same night after a first date (or that same night after a second date having sex with her the first time) something like, “Made it home, I had a great time with you tonight”, do you respond to her with an immediate scheduling with her of the next meetup or do you still wait until the next day for the scheduling?
@Bran
Literally from the article above:
“Note that these time frames are when you initiate contact. Obviously if she contacts you first before you contact her, you are free to have a conversation with her at that time (with the exception of when you’re doing a soft next). ”
I should print this and hang it on the wall and frame it. I can’t seem to make myself follow the very good advice about long-term relationships leaving you. The advice do not contact for a very minimum of 4 months to 6 months longer is better. I was dumped by my ex gf last july mainly because I was not around a lot due to work and my schedule and the fact that she was getting upset about it. I held frame perfectly until after she left. Then I committed the cardinal sin of trying to do all kinds of shit to get her back got angry threaten to beat the new guy’s ass you name it. I still remember The Break-Up article from October of 2014 and the line of trying to stay in contact to keep the connection going and your righteous male need for respect flaring up. Sounds just like me you think I would know better by now
“After she ignores two contacts from you in a row on two separate occasions (texts, social media messages, whatever): If you’ve never had sex with her or only had sex with her once, she’s gone forever. ”
This is definitely not true…….ive had them ‘boomerang’ sometimes years later so long as:
1. You were never needy and over contacting. AFC beta butt hurt.
2. Ur initial contacts where impactful emotionally and pleasant.
3. U reach out periodically…non judgmentally without applying any pressure of a respone
The fact is women operate on a totally different emotional wavelength. Sometimes they are simple in a weird place …or distracted by a million things and including other guys………sometimes guys are too impatient. Not all are going to turn over in the simple linear fashion we men desire. Sometimes they file men away as well for later use when more convenient.