28 Oct 70 Responses to Women’s Demands
I’ve run into this ridiculously silly social media meme several times now when women repost it. It’s called Stay Single Until You Meet A Guy Who Does These 70 Things.
Yeah. You can see where this is going.
I tried to ignore it, but I just couldn’t not respond to this extreme bullshit Societal Programming. I just can’t help myself. Too many women have re-posted and re-tweeted this thing for me to ignore it.
-By Caleb Jones
Before I get into this, I’m not responding to these 70 items because I’m taking this stupid clickbait article seriously. I’m not. I’m responding to these things because so many women read these things and agree with them to the point of reposting them saying stuff like “Hell yeah” or “Exactly!” This stuff reads like a Dominant’s wet dream. While I agree with a few of the items, most of them should be titled How to Be an Extreme Beta Male Who Will Quickly Destroy Any Attraction A Woman Had for Him.
Let’s have some fun…
1. Asks you on a real date and follows through.
I agree. However, you need to clarify what a “real” date means. I have a feeling that means full-on dinner and drinks. For a first date? Fuck no. Once we’re dating, sure. If I like you.
2. Holds open your doors.
While this kind of thing is pure Societal Programming, I think it’s okay as long as it’s not taken to extremes (and as long as a woman doesn’t actually complain about it).
3. Pulls out your chair.
If you’re my OLTR and we’re on an unusually fancy date, then fine. Otherwise, no.
4. Takes your jacket.
As above.
5. Stands when you excuse yourself from the table.
Jesus. Sweetie, please, let’s not push it. This isn’t the fucking 1950s anymore. A man would look stupid doing that today. It would actually confuse most women. “Why are you standing up?”
6. Let’s you order first.
It’s bullshit SP, but I do this just to be nice. Not a big deal.
7. Pays
That is a very big topic that I’ve addressed here and other places. The bottom line is if we’re talking the first date or two, sure, the man can pay as long as it’s a drink or two at a bar or a coffee or two at a Starbucks. Much more than that, no. I have had sex with a massive number of women where I spent between zero and 27 dollars over the first two dates. It works.
8. Stands on the outside of the sidewalk.
More bullshit SP. The odds of someone attacking a woman while walking next to a man she’s with on a city street is well within the 2% Rule and should not be a concern. (Unless you’re both walking in an extremely dangerous part of town, but why the hell would you be doing that on a date?)
9. Walks around with a handkerchief, ‘just in case.’
Read the thing above about this not being the 1950s anymore. It’s the 21st century. Please update your software.
10. Walks you to the door.
Finally, one where I agree. A man should take the lead during dates.
11. Wants to meet your father.
Wait, what? I don’t want to meet your fucking dad. I just want to have sex with you and maybe spend some time with you. What hell does your dad have to do with this?
After a year or two of dating once we’re actually talking about getting married, if you get that far and you probably won’t, then fine, meeting your father might be appropriate at that time. But outside of that? Jesus, go fuck yourself, Sweetheart.
12. Introduces you to his family.
Read above what I just said. If we’re super duper serious, then fine. Other than that, no.
13. Thanks you for a great date, every date.
Excuse me? Why do I need to thank you for the date? Especially when I’m the one who probably paid for everything?
Hey, here’s an idea. Why don’t you thank me for giving me a blowjob?
See how insulting that sounds? That’s how you sound.
14. Drives you to and from places.
You need to download this really cool app called “Uber.”
15. Introduces you to his friends.
Read above what I said about your Dad and your family. Of course, we don’t need to wait quite as long for friends as we do your Dad, but the principle is the same.
16. Texts back quickly.
Wrong. Responding to texts quickly is horrible time management and damages personal effectiveness on multiple levels. I’m a man on a Mission and I’m busy working on that most of the time. I’ll text you back when I am done. If that’s not acceptable to you, then great, go date a guy who will never make more than $30,000 a year.
17. Supports you and all you do.
Uhhh, what? I have to support everything you do?
What if you lie to your friends? What if you do hard drugs? What if you go $70,000 into debt for a degree in art history?
I don’t care how hot or fun you are, I’m not going to support you if you do dumb shit. Sorry.
18. Doesn’t push sex immediately.
Sure, I won’t push for sex within the first five minutes of the first date. That would be “immediately.” I know that usually doesn’t work. Instead, we’ll have a one-hour first date at a Starbucks and then I’ll push for sex on the second date when you come over to my house. And if you’re under the age of 33 and my spreadsheet statistics are accurate (and they are), you’ll probably be cool with that.
19. Takes care of you when you’ve had too much to drink.
Sure. Just realize that if you’ve had “too much to drink” often then you’ve taken yourself out of the running for a serious relationship with me.
20. Asks how you are and waits for an answer.
Okay. Not sure why I would ask you a question and not wait for an answer though. That’s weird.
21. Talks confidently about the future.
Shit, I do that every day with or without you.
22. Pays for your cab.
Again, there’s this really cool app you can get for your phone called “Uber.” There’s another one called “Lyft.” They’re really cool. You should totally check them out.
23. Kisses your forehead.
Only if we’re dating and I’ve already decided I like you, sure.
24. Learns what you like in bed.
Oh, I completely agree. I need you coming back again and again even when you know I’m having sex with other women, so I’m going to learn what you like in bed as quickly as possible and do it to you every time we have sex. You’ll keep coming back to me for years and years since no other man will do this for you as consistently as I will.
25. Learns to read you and knows when something isn’t right.
I very much agree.
26. Still gives you butterflies.
I agree but that will end in several years, regardless of what I do, because of your female physiology. It won’t be my fault and will have literally nothing to do with me.
27. Reaches for your hand when walking.
Man, I hate holding hands, but I admit I do that with Pink Firefly sometimes because she likes it. But she’s my wife. Any other women now or in my past, no.
28. And kisses you for everyone to see.
Oh, FUCK yeah! I’ll make out with you with full tongue and grab your ass right there on the sidewalk in front of everyone, even if you’re 25 years younger than me, and piss everyone off about how inappropriate we’re being.
Cool.
29. Pushes you to become better without wanting to change you too much.
That statement makes no sense.
And I’m not surprised.
30. He keeps you on track with your own goals.
Goals? You’re a woman. Let’s be honest. The odds are that “goals” aren’t really something you’re into.
31. Admires the life you have outside of him.
If your life outside of me is truly admirable, sure. Unlikely. Extraordinary people are rare.
32. Doesn’t get jealous.
A man who doesn’t get jealous? Ha HA! Good luck with that, Sweetie.
Alpha Male 2.0s only represent less than 5% of the male population (and even some of them get a little jealous).
33. He teaches you without belittling you.
I agree.
Makes you laugh until you’re crying.
I don’t disagree, except that I’m aware that making you laugh creates entertainment rather than attraction, so I’m not going to overdo it.
35. Has deep emotional conversations.
Only if we’re dating. If you’re just an FB, no.
36. Works through fights and doesn’t walk away.
Wrongo! You can disagree with me all you want, but if you raise your voice, insult me, or threaten anything, you’re going to get instantly soft nexted and I’ll have sex with the next woman on the list, who in all likelihood is younger and/or hotter than you.
If you don’t like that, remember that you’re an adult and thus have the ability to disagree with me without losing your cool. Or are you a child?
37. Respects your privacy.
I agree but that’s a two-way street, Pumpkin. Too many a women demand that a man respect her privacy then turn right around and try to get into his phone when he’s sleeping or in the shower.
38. Present when you need him.
Dude. You’re going to need me all the fucking time and I’m busy working on my Mission. If you want a man who is present “when you need him,” make sure you go after a guy who doesn’t make very much money, doesn’t have a very exciting life or future, and has lots of free time. That isn’t me. Thank god.
39. Doesn’t cancel often but makes it up to you when he does.
I agree but that’s another one of those two-way streets…
40. He shows you his favorite places.
Do you really want to go the Warhammer store?
Do you really want to go camping in the rain when it’s 40 degrees Fahrenheit out in the Mount Jefferson wilderness?
Yeah. I don’t think so.
41. Values trust and honesty.
I agree, but again, two-way street! So… since you value trust and honesty, when you start having a DM conversation with your ex-boyfriend over social media, you’re going to immediately tell your current boyfriend all about it, right? Right?
42. Remembers little details you tell him.
Sweetheart, I’m too busy running three companies, traveling the world, being a good father, losing weight and having sex with multiple women. It’s very unlikely I’m going to remember any of your little details. If you want someone who does that, go lesbian and date another woman.
43. The guy who makes sure you text him when you get home.
Every fucking time you go home? Again, I ask: Are you a child?
44. Who doesn’t mind hanging out with your family.
If we’re married / living together, sure, to a degree. Otherwise, no.
45. Or you when you sing too loudly in the car to songs he doesn’t like. He doesn’t change the station.
If it’s country western I’m changing the station.
And putting on some Ozzy.
46. Travels just to see you.
What??? No, no, no. You have this backwards. If you want to be with me, you’re coming to see me. Otherwise go date someone else. I live in a city of over two million people, meaning that statistically there are plenty of hot women where I live. Therefore, it would make no sense for me to spend any time and money to travel to you when I can get whatever I want right here in my own town.
47. And asks you how your day was.
If we’re married or living together, sure. Otherwise I don’t care.
48. Someone who never makes you question how he feels about you.
Are you fucking kidding me? Kitten, you’re a girl. You’re always going to question how you feel about me. That’s what girls do.
49. Tells you when he’s proud of you.
Sure.
Just don’t expect it very often because it won’t be.
50. He likes you best when you’re in a t-shirt with your hair pulled back.
If you have big tits, sure.
51. He knows when to apologize and how to make it up to you.
I agree but that’s another one of those oh-so-lovely two-way streets. Women often expect men to apologize to them but they (the women) never seem to want to apologize to men.
52. Makes you laugh just looking at your phone.
I agree.
53. You don’t run out of things to say.
That would be your fault.
54. He pushes you out of your comfort zone.
If we’re married or living together, a little bit, sure. Otherwise I don’t care enough.
55. Try this food. Go to this place. Read this book. Watch this movie.
If it’s something I think you’ll like, sure, but do you really want to go see the new Rambo movie?
56. And you grow from it.
Your personal growth is your responsibility, not mine.
57. When he wins over your heart and doesn’t stop trying.
If I have to “keep trying” to win your heart after it’s been won, then I’m with the wrong person and you need to leave me immediately and go find someone else with whom you’re more compatible.
58. He makes you realize why every other relationship failed.
Yeah. Because you expected long-term monogamy to work.
59. Someone who touches you so subtly it means so much. – His hand on your leg under the table. His hand on your back when you’re standing next to him.
I agree.
60. Someone who doesn’t mind that you take all the blankets.
Women always scream and bitch about fairness and then they say something like this.
Would you mind if I took all of your blankets at night? You would? Then, with all due respect, fuck you. It’s called fairness, Darling, something you women say you want (but really don’t).
61. Or you sleep on his side of the bed.
That’s fine, I’ll just move you over.
62. Or that your hair is always in his face when he sleeps.
Or that I burp and fart all night. Cool.
63. Someone who makes you breakfast in the morning and lets you sleep.
For special occasions, sure. I expect surprise morning blowjobs though. Two-way street!
64. Is passionate about his career.
I completely agree. The problem is that you don’t. While your high-achieving husband/boyfriend is working all the time you’ll bitch and moan that he doesn’t spend enough time with you.
65. Always says yes to you.
That would utterly destroy any attraction you ever had for me in short order, so no. I have to keep saying no to you on a semi-regular basis in order to maintain your attraction, or else the entire relationship will eventuality fail.
66. Orders you food, even though you say you’re not hungry, but he knows you’ll take his.
I agree, but I’m only ordering you enough food that I would eat it if you don’t. I’m not wasting my money.
67. Someone whose word is their bond.
I agree… two-way street though!
68. Labels don’t scare him, and he wants to call you his girlfriend.
Once you’ve qualified for OLTR after many months of MLTR (which is highly unlikely and takes a very long time) and we’ve had the OLTR Talk and you’ve survived it and are cool with it, then fine, I can call you “girlfriend” at that time. But if you expect that label just because you want it, sorry. That title is something you must earn.
69. Someone who still likes you when he’s seen you at your worst.
If you’re an FB or MLTR, no. If you’re at your worst in my presence, then you’re out.
If you’re an OLTR, then okay, but “your worst” better be an extraordinarily rare event.
70. And isn’t afraid to say I love you first.
Once you’ve qualified for OLTR (which, again, is unlikely and takes a very long time) and we’ve had the OLTR Talk and you’ve survived it and are cool with it, then I will wait for the right time to say this. The odds are that you’ll say it before me, but if I say it first that’s fine under those specific conditions.
Note: Last minute addition here. I know that some folks will comment and complain that this article is “frivolous” and imply that I do “frivolous” articles “all the time.” Number one, I don’t. Look at the Archive of this blog over the last several months and you’ll clearly see articles like this from me are quite rare. Number two, lots of guys in the red pill / manosphere world do content like this constantly, so you’re welcome. Number three, remember that I have lots of readers in several different sub-demographics and I need to appeal to all of them, not just the individual segment you happen to be in. Again, you’re welcome for all the free content.
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Green Dragon
Posted at 09:20 am, 28th October 2019Confused by your responses to 42 and 47. Two reasons why:
1. It runs contrary to your responses on other points where you focus on making her feel special, albeit in a 2-way street; and
2. I have spent my time around a lot of very successful, busy people, people making I’m sure as much money or more than you, running multiple companies, very successful, and whenever I’m working with them or generally otherwise as well they take the time to learn about me and make me feel special, and do the same for people around them, especially by remembering little details about them. What does having 3 companies have to do with taking the time to make someone in your life, in whatever capacity, feel special with minimum effort?
El Barto
Posted at 09:37 am, 28th October 2019Oh, this is hilarious. I saw this article before, but it really shows how little accountability many women have. And how much accountability they expect from men.
Nothing wrong with some frivolity here and there. This is a forum for men and in my opinion a sense of humor is a big part of that.
Not many women (at least good looking ones) there for some strange reason.
Ah, the morning blowjob! When I went to college an older roommate told us greenhorns about the wonder of your girl giving you a morning blowjob. The best way of being woken up.
When I was younger I used to date more women who believed all these points then nowadays. And I believed many of these as well. Now I’m much more in the frame: ‘what do you exactly bring to the table?’ Without being too arrogant or too cool. (that last one was also a point of improvement for me)
Harry Flashman
Posted at 09:40 am, 28th October 2019Lists like this are one reason why a cute woman finds herself single and in a panic at 38. Hot women and younger women can get away with it more often. The cute but not-hot girl sets wildly unrealistic expectations that no man can meet, and even if he did, she wouldn’t like him anyway because that’s not actually what she wants. It’s hysterical but sad for those women who buy into this nonsense.
zech
Posted at 10:15 am, 28th October 2019My MLTR thanks me sometimes when I let her suck my cock and especially when I cum on her face. She doesn’t feel insulted at all so I think it’s a fair deal sometimes to thank her for a nice date. 😛
CrabRangoon
Posted at 11:29 am, 28th October 2019Jesus…70 things huh. I guess I should be surprised it’s not 100+. I love how they have these laundry lists of demands but if a man demands even a handful of things, he’s a piece of shit that doesn’t respect her.
This pedestalizing of women in the western world has gotten way out of hand. They truly believe just by the virtue of being born a female, they deserve the royal treatment. What exactly are you bring to the table again??? Other than probably some mood disorder and credit card debt? I still enjoy women, and accept their nature but fuck are they making is harder to like them every passing year.
I think a good little test if you’re one of these thirsty guys that thinks he’s love-imagine she can no longer have sex of any kind with you. No intercourse, oral, anal…nothing anymore. Now do you still want to be with her? The answer will probably be no many times since that’s really all you’re getting out of it. Patrice O’Neal did a great bit asking the girls in the audience what they would offer a man if they didn’t have a vagina anymore. Their immediate reply was “blow jobs”, “anal”, etc.. to which he replied, “so you’re just a bunch of holes basically” or something to that effect.
Gareth
Posted at 12:00 pm, 28th October 20191. Asks you on a real date and follows through – Ha even though they follow through approx 30% of the time.
67. Someone whose word is their bond – again, not a reciprocal arrangment
In your article “the 12 months and how they relate to dating and relationships” you advise a retreat from new sarging from the 2nd week Nov until Jan 2nd, but in your ebooks you suggest the longer things wait the lower your chances are. How do you deal with “luke warm women” whose words are not their bond who are now in this window, keep pushing for the 1st/2nd meet or wait and get back in touch Jan 2nd?
Sonny
Posted at 02:49 pm, 28th October 2019Serious question Blackdragon , surprised no one might have ever asked you this before
If you had to choose between the two would you rather recommend being a beta male or an Alpha male 1.0 ?
Don’t say you recommend being an Alpha 2.0 because thats a no brainer , I just wanna know for my understanding which of the aforementioned two is preferable
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:22 pm, 28th October 2019Easy. Alpha Male 1.0. He has a lot of drama and conflict at least he’s Alpha, making decent money, getting laid, and so forth. I would never want to be a beta under any conditions.
Greg
Posted at 04:59 pm, 28th October 2019I’d make her watch this CBS story on non-monogamy.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/polyamory-relationships-not-just-one-big-orgy-stigma-of-consensual-non-monogamy-cbsn-originals/
A
Posted at 05:18 pm, 28th October 2019It is truly amazing how little women grasp about the concept of reciprocity.
Even more amazing is how little women grasp about what they are actually attracted to. I guarantee that the last 10 men that any woman who loves the original list fucked did almost none of those things.
No wonder women are utterly incapable of teaching men how to be attractive to women.
joelsuf
Posted at 01:25 am, 29th October 2019Pretty sure this is sexual assault…
I should put my response to this on my blog lol. My answers would be similar to BD’s but only I would tolerate even less nonsense. About 55 of these 70 things sound like they come from a chick who just wants a man-slave haha.
joelsuf
Posted at 01:30 am, 29th October 2019To me that all depends on what a dude likes more.
If a dude likes comfort more, then beta. Don’t forget that betas are followers by nature, meaning as long as they follow, they’ll be comfortable, and they’ll be good.
If a dude likes conflict more, then Alpha 1. Sure alpha 1s make more money and get more chicks (most of the time) but they’re also really stressed out, never comfortable, and probably have lower life expectancy than betas.
It’s gammas that dudes need to avoid being. These are the types who make conflict their comfort and live for disorder. They live to let others down and make others mad for their own self-amusement. And gammas live for self-amusement, as I did back in the day.
None of these three will ever be happy long term however and that’s why Alpha 2 is where dudes need to be.
VSmilex
Posted at 02:45 am, 29th October 2019Surprised at some of your responses. Especially 25 and 66. She is basically asking us to be mind readers. Yes, sure after a while you see if the person is not ok/has something on their mind, but 66? Wtf is that? If I ask if you want food and you say no, then why would I get you food?..
Tom
Posted at 03:38 am, 29th October 2019i think hand holding and kissing (make sure you’re the one pull back the escalation)
is fine to establish comfort and future romantic projection
not too much though.
Also, i texted, ”how you feeling” out of blue to test her temperature because days went by, or i didn’t have a photo ping. Not sure i did it correct
Paul
Posted at 05:07 am, 29th October 2019Just a brief comment. I assume you do these articles because this whole attitude is so prevasive and persistent. So primal and “baked in” to society you will probably have to keep coming back to it.
It’s amazing how you could meet the most well travelled, intelligent, realistic, successful and introspective female and she would still nod her head at this list.
hey hey
Posted at 06:08 am, 29th October 2019Notice that if a man was making those remarks they would have been making fun of him
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:16 am, 29th October 2019The ability to read women’s nonverbal queues is essential to both pick-up success and relationship management success. If you have no idea how to do it it’s going to make your woman life a lot more work for you.
1. No kissing on the first date, period. Only start kissing her when actual sexual escalation beings. After that do it whenever you want.
2. Hand holding is a boyfriend behavior, at least in North America, and thus must be avoided unless you know the woman is at least a high-end MLTR.
Correct! Societal Programming is like water to fish in the ocean; there’s so much of it that it’s easy to forget it’s there.
Cognitive dissonance; in this case, a combination of woman logic, SP, and opportunism.
While I was writing this I started thinking about publishing a man’s version to to demonstrate how it would sound to women, since I think most women have no idea how insulting this list sounds to a man. Would be fun to put the shoe on the other foot.
I think I might do it.
Edward
Posted at 09:43 am, 29th October 2019This list is a consequence of the rise of the social media. Every woman has now hordes of beta males, giving her free attention, right in her phone.
CrabRangoon
Posted at 09:57 am, 29th October 2019I’m honestly surprised it’s not 100+ items given how women are these days.
There have been instances where guys have done something similar(I want to say Richard Cooper) but with literally a handful of requests and they got skewered for it. How dare you insist women do anything except just show up with functioning sex organs!!! I still enjoy women and their companionship but they are making it really difficult to like them year over year.
They don’t even realize while listing this out that it will directly cause their attraction to drop like a stone if you comply to it all, as you stated especially for “65. Always says yes to you”. The power of “NO” can’t be overstated. You don’t have to say yes to everything and shouldn’t. Yea they might pout and stomp their feet but they get over it and respect you more. I’ve been told that directly by women in my past-they were shocked I said no but respected it.
Neil
Posted at 10:17 am, 29th October 2019Avoid this as although it seems to read as innocuous, it subtlety conveys a ‘why haven’t you replied’-vibe. Just have a few gifs on your phone that highlight male female dynamics funnily & send it out with out any message. If she replies, then take it from there.
if not just move on.
hey hey
Posted at 11:50 am, 29th October 2019But there are a lot of men who find these things OK and they even promote it themselves. That’s the sad thing. But when a man goes forward to promote these things women most of the time make fun of him and giggle with their girlfriends.
But when women tell these things they get insulted if you say otherwise and will attack you, unless you stand your ground. Then they shut up and change the subject.
It’s very irrational.
Lazy Blitz, a Storm of Openers!
Posted at 12:09 pm, 29th October 2019Hell no! I prefer twin beds, they can be put close together but at least there is a clear frontier and I won’t feel her move on her mattress.
I do even preemptively do offensives on her territory to hug her during the night whenever I wake up a bit, just so that she won’t feel like coming on my side for a hug that wakes me when I am in deep sleep.
MartyMcFly
Posted at 03:34 pm, 29th October 2019The only response required is no. Hit the weights and eat clean, and the rest will take care of itself.
Post Script: Caleb, don’t go see the new Rambo movie if you haven’t already. It hardly earns its own moniker. Hollywood is kaput.
JudoJohn
Posted at 06:08 pm, 29th October 2019Really?
Rambo should have died in the first movie.
Tom
Posted at 08:13 pm, 29th October 2019@blackdragon
i tried kissing her in my car (i pulled back first) and i told her to suck my finger she obviously complied, but i didn’t pull her to a motel, that was probably one of my biggest mistake. I couldn’t understand why i wanna destroy the sexual tension (by asking her to leave right away).
on other hand, i had sexual success where no first date kiss no hand holding just sexual talks. But she slightly gave me ”ok, we’re not going to do anything” after i said ”let’s go up and chill, if you did not like it, we’re not going to do anything.”
MartyMcFly
Posted at 08:27 pm, 29th October 2019@JudoJohn
Hmm, don’t know about that. But Rambo: Last Blood was a truly awful flick, and an embarrassment to the franchise.
Incognito
Posted at 08:56 pm, 29th October 2019@Blackdragon
Cues
Yeah, and you absolutely do need to be able to read them.
K
Posted at 01:47 am, 30th October 201970 points? How the heck did you ever get through all of them? I tried hard, still ended at #13. And I’m a woman. Sometimes the American world you appear to be living in really dumbfounds me. Regards from Prague.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 02:01 am, 30th October 2019Haha, I would love to see some video / article about a woman who met a man she finds handsome and who fulfills all her boxes but she won’t date him because there was “no click” or some nonsense like that. It would be so funny.
It also really tempts me to make such a list for what a woman should do for a man… such as: don’t make decisions based on emotions, give the man a notice period if you want to leave him or better yet never stop having sex with him, tell him in advance exactly when sex is going to happen, do not push for anything serious and happy if you are just friends who bang etc
I only do double beds. When the girl isn’t there I can sleep in the middle and the double bed means we have more possible arrangements where and how to sleep and can change around easily. I never had a problem with a woman pushing me to the side or something, in fact the men who say that do not understand the woman wants to cuddle up during the night. But if you do not like it perhaps you should indeed sleep separate.
Most men will never finish reading such a list nor even start to read it. It’s ok to have fantasies. Some people make lists of what kind of planets they want to conquer in the galaxy or what kind of gear they want in a video game. It’s the same thing.
This part always confused me, now that you say in North America I see this might be a cultural difference then. In Europe for example it is the norm to hold hands with someone you just met / when you have a hook up and it is not considered a big deal and I think it is the same in parts of Latin America and Japan from what I have seen. Though I do agree that when I do continue dating her long term to always hold hands when walking outside is a boyfriend behavior.
I have found for myself it comes easily after having met a lot of women and went through a lot of dates and some relationships. It becomes obvious after a while. I wonder if there is some systematic way to explain it to guys who are new to this other than just telling them to go on loads of dates.
Who? Depends where you post this. Same is with when a woman writes this. Obviously the women write it on some female dominated forum. Here we are laughing at this.
I usually do that but I often feel like I am screwing things up by appearing like the beta orbiter by being too keen, however if I do not push these women nothing happens. I am not quite sure what is the balance there?
AlphaOmega
Posted at 03:57 am, 30th October 2019By the way, the observation about comic conventions is completely off. In most places there are loads of hot women at those events. The reason for this is that women figured out yet another way to get free attention from needy betas. These events are full of questionably dressed young women who are “cosplaying”. Indeed, often they are making money directly or indirectly from it. It is very clever.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 04:14 am, 30th October 2019It is projection. Indeed, it is something women do so they are afraid you might do that too even if men are generally good at this.
Most women will hate that and think you are not into her (anymore).
It is well known that women often think the guy they are into is funny, even if he is not. It is hilarious that women still think it is something to seek specifically. It just shows how little they know themselves.
Actually many women will do that to some extent but I think she was thinking more like favourite city / favourite place to go for a walk. This was probably written by someone who is very outdoorsy with lots of special places and just assumes others are like her. Many women don’t even have favourite places in that sense nor do they think about whether the guy does.
That is easy. I have a near perfect memory regarding details. But it means I will also remember the thing she said and promised and good luck saying you did not say that.
Haha they rarely like when I lecture them like this. I love doing that though. One of my guilty pleasures. But I did meet some women who enjoy being lectures about this and other topics so it can work.
Every woman who has spent the night with me more than a few nights knows that there is a 99.9% guaranteed morning sex where I start banging her while she is still sleeping. The breakfast comes after that. They are somehow never sleepy any more after that.
Or when her worst isn’t actually nearly that bad. Because then you know it will never get worse than that.
Neil
Posted at 04:57 am, 30th October 2019Nope, it ain’t the norm here in Europe. Holding hands on a 1st date or 2nd date conveys neediness like “Look everyone!! That’s right, she’s with me!!” If you’ve been together a while then it’s ok if you want to do it but it can be the kiss of death early on.
Same in Japan. When I lived there and early on, did that on dates it freaked a lot of girls out as even a lot of married couples don’t do it as public displays of affection aren’t the norm there.
It’s like when guys keep pushing to kiss their girl in public. it just screams “Validate me!!!”
A girl should be initiating physicality as it shows she’s into you and your the prize, not the other way around
AlphaOmega
Posted at 05:03 am, 30th October 2019Are you trolling?
Not being afraid to initiate physicality when done in a smooth confident way is a huge part of seduction and getting into her pants quickly. It is also the single most direct and easy way to flirt, get her sexually excited and feel whether you have or even create chemistry.
I think I have seen you on this blog before so I am genuinely surprised to hear such insane comments from you.
Neil
Posted at 06:26 am, 30th October 2019Yep, that’s right but holding hands isn’t the way to go. As I said, your showing that you have to hold her to show she’s the prize which is beta behaviour. The better way to demonstrate physicality on a 1st date would be something like gently touching her arm to convey a point whilst chatting, or taking her hand to look at her rings. It’s more subtle.
Nope, sorry your wrong. It may work if you have a strong sexual frame that can just push through the girl’s frame but for guys who are trying to improve their dating chances it’s up there with trying to kiss a girl on the 1st date and then wondering why she doesn’t want a 2nd date.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 06:33 am, 30th October 2019It is true that I only do it sometimes and situational. I think what you understood from my comments was that I am suggesting all men should do it at all times which is definitely not what I recommend but I can see that it could have been understood that way from the way I wrote the comment. So we do not disagree here it seems. What I mean was that you / someone else wrote as if it was a no go in all situations which is definitely not the case either. Your comment sounded like you always wait for the girl to initiate physical contact and kino and that you advise this to others which would cause most men lose at least half of all they’re lays if taken literally (or perhaps more like 70-90%).
Neil
Posted at 06:58 am, 30th October 2019Yep, that’s how it came across to me. I’ve held hands with girls once we’ve been going out a while and it’s fine but when guys are starting out it doesn’t come over well especially as most newbies will be nervous and of course no girl is aroused by a guy who has a hand like a damp fish! Lol!
Nope, I wasn’t saying that.
As you say, if guys wait for girls to initiate physicality then yep, they’re going to lose out big time. It’s how and when you escalate that will improve a guy’s chances.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 07:28 am, 30th October 2019I have done it on first dates a few times but it was rare and every time it worked out very well. Of course I did it only in the cases where it was clear this was a good idea / natural. I have learned already some time back the hard way that when you try to force it then it never works even if the thing you do otherwise is some amazing winning strategy so it goes for everything. I did not feel the need to mention it because it is already obvious at least to me that there isn’t any single universal thing you can always do and you have to always adjust.
Also:
It was based a bit on this comment. I can see where you are coming from but my mindset is more like it is irrelevant if it is public or not and you make it clear you don’t care. In fact sometimes I did it on purpose in public with a girl I was seeing and her feel like I was validating her. It works amazingly if you can make it with this frame.
However in general after a first date I usually either entirely or almost entirely meet them at my place so we never hold hands or kiss in public by definition.
Neil
Posted at 09:01 am, 30th October 2019Yep, I should have elaborated on that. My point was that I often see guys with a girl in public, pulling her in by her chin for a make-out. Now if the girl responds in-kind and puts her tongue down his throat then, great, nice one dude, respect!
However more often or not the girl, is just giving him a quick peck on the lips at best and then carrying on talking to him, or checking her mobile etc.. He keeps carrying on for a while trying to make out and the same thing happens: she’ll usually (pleasantly) stop his behavior after a while, by coming to a halt suddenly, moving slightly off him & saying “Oh, did you remember to blah blah blah..” in order to break the moment. I must have seen this over a 100 times and the same thing happens if the girl isn’t responsive to him trying to make out with her.
So what does he get from carrying on: a boost to his (fragile) ego & that’s it!
Now if he did it once out of the blue and then just rolled off, it would be a massive spike and she’d probably respond. However continuing just says to the girl (& anyone watching) “I sooo love you baby!” and neediness creeps in.
C Lo
Posted at 09:54 am, 30th October 2019This lady makes it about ten minutes max in person before her bitchy and demanding behavior sits front and center.
You’d probably never get her to date you at all online!
I know this sort of article stirs up posts and clicks, but cmon. Y’all know what to do here – save time and just next her.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 11:02 am, 30th October 2019You’d be surprised. Often the women who post such stuff or tell all her friends what they should forget they’re own “advice”. It happens all the time. If this girl would be quick and easy to lay and would not remember any of these I would not be surprised at all. The point is not that this is what women want, the point is the hypocrisy.
Nope, just because she has such ideas does not mean she will make such demands from you if your frame is very alpha. She will have wild sex with you and then bitch about the things you are doing wrong online and reject all the betas who do what she asks for. I am guessing about 10-50% of the women most of us here had fall into this category.
My criticism is a different one actually. The woman in the post says the guy should fulfill these things otherwise she should stay single… ok. Then Caleb spends a lot of time explaining how some of those examples he wouldn’t do that unless she was his wife or girlfriend. Well… yeah, she said herself this is for boyfriend by saying she should stay single otherwise. It doesn’t say anything she would expect any of this from a hookup / causal dating / per-relationship phase etc. Makes no sense that Caleb responds like that in those cases.
I just realized something else…
What surprises me most is as far as I recall I have not seen anything on this long list about the guy not having other women!
Does this mean that she is totally fine with non monogamy from the guy or her guy cheating on her provided he fulfills the rest?
Hilarious.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 11:11 am, 30th October 2019Yes, but I am not sure that in these cases the guy actually cares about it being in public specifically. It probably looks the same when he tries that in private. I guess the problem is he is either not dominant enough in making her do what he wants or if not going for that style / shes a dominant makes a mistake of continuing giving her attention when she clearly isn’t doing what he wants.
My women would never behave like that in public, they would either love to show off with me or would be very shy and awkward about it in which case I would tease them a bit about it and then we would go somewhere more private. If they did that to me there would be consequences (nexting, etc). I require high degree of enthusiasm from my women for anything above FB. And with pure FB you don’t meet out of the house. I did have that a few times in private with a new women but then it has either been overcome (she did that because she was nervous/very inexperienced and after a while it stopped) or it finished then and there. It is beyond me how can it work long term if a woman behaves like this, but perhaps that is what the submissive guy – dominant girl relationships look like?
Félix
Posted at 11:12 am, 30th October 2019Lol, nice catch. I wish it was that way, but she probably thought that being faithful™ to your partner falls under basic human decency, so it doesn’t need to be explicitly stated. But a man can dream.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 11:24 am, 30th October 2019Version number 2 with 71 demands incoming…
Redbaron
Posted at 11:24 am, 30th October 2019With the amount of demands women make these days, I am surprised to see most men who just want sex still going out of their way to date women. My theory here is that Societal Programming is at play and that most men are programmed to think that they have to date women in order to get sex. I think more men need to embrace the fact that they simply view women as nothing more than mere sex objects and should just focus on making as much money as possible so that they can fuck hot hookers on a regular basis. Doing that will save them years of time and emotional pain.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 11:31 am, 30th October 2019You confuse “making demands” with “enforcing demands”. The vast majority of women, including the ones who make these lists will often forget or let go of most of these “demands”. It is kind of like men saying how hot a woman has to be otherwise going like nah shes not hot enough, not my type I wouldnt date her and then you see the same guy with a way less woman and he is happy he managed to get some woman. I see both of these cases all the time.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:01 pm, 30th October 2019True. Beta males are today’s norm.
Yup, at least the younger, hotter ones do. Many older women will talk about what a great gentleman he is.
He did in the book. 🙂
I laughed. A lot.
I’ve read plenty of articles about that. Just Google around.
That’s just it. We in this small, insular community know what to do, but most men out in the real world have no idea what to do, including most men who casually stumble across this article.
Incorrect. The woman writing this article is saying that you shouldn’t make man your boyfriend unless he does these things before he is your boyfriend. Or else she should “stay single,” meaning not make him her boyfriend in the first place.
The bigger issue here is that women like this don’t understand that certain boyfriend behaviors are fine, but must be EARNED. I’m not going to just freely hand them over on the first few dates just because I’m a needy pussy and you think you automatically deserve them because you were born with a vagina.
It’s implied. A Dominant Disney Provider Hunter like this would never tolerate any form of non-monogamy (unless I was her FB and she was cheating on her boyfriend).
Stephen
Posted at 03:03 pm, 30th October 2019I’m amazed that women can be feminist and have lists like this. Well, okay, I’m not really amazed — because, they’re women. They don’t make sense. They want to be equal when it comes to pay. For everything else they want to be unequal, and see nothing confusing about that.
I used to be uncomfortable when it came time to pay for dates. Now I have it covered. With money out, I say I’m happy to pay, but we are equals here. We should split it, or take turns. How about I get this one and you can get the next.
I think that comes off as classy, generous and most of all, PC. Win win. What do you guys think?
AlphaOmega
Posted at 03:38 pm, 30th October 2019What I am amazed by far more is that young attractive women almost never have such list and it is mostly women who are in the older woman category who’s choices and chances at a high quality man have been greatly diminished. Because if anything it should be the other way around. It makes me wonder whether these lists are not really things she wants but an excuse why she is single. It is easier to say she can’t find a man who meets her criteria than to say that failed to catch a quality man when she was young, pretty and had an attractive personality and now the only men available to her are complete losers or men 20+ years older than her neither of which she is attracted to.
Stephen
Posted at 09:45 pm, 30th October 2019Alpha, I think you’ve right on.
I would also add that those lists come from the school of hard knocks. They realized they wasted their looks on lousy guys. By trial and error they’ve learned what NOT to do. Since they are all in denial and think they are princesses, of course they are entitled to the benefits befitting a princess.
One thing I would argue with you is these women once had nice personalities. I don’t know one single guy who ever intentionally pumped/dumped a woman. It happens because after getting to know them, they are either so boring or so unpleasant, nobody wants them around for anything but sex. If women were just fun and nice they’d all get good mates with plenty of time left on the biological clock.
joelsuf
Posted at 09:57 pm, 30th October 2019Women’s movements have made it very clear that they want genders other than dudes to be superior to dudes: In earnings, amount of leaders, opportunities, all of it.
How do I know this? Most of the chicks I hook up with are these types since they are practically the only group of chicks who are sex-positive enough to tolerate open relationships or be FBs.
Women’s movement chicks are psychotically horny because they believe that it is liberating to develop similar sex drives that men have. And I agree somewhat lol.
They’ve wanted to be the superior sex for a pretty long time now, and they’re getting to the point where they will happily admit it and at least be aware of it.
However, these types are rare and this is why I laugh at men’s movements and red pill movements. They think that any being that possesses a vagina wants chicks and LGBTs to rule the entire multiverse and that isn’t true.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 01:29 am, 31st October 2019Sometimes yes, sometimes it was just that they were both young and both not ready for anything, sometimes it was her letting an excellent guy go because of some stupid idea she had.
They look at the things those guys didn’t do and make a list of them thinking this is what is gonna solve the problem, as if that was the reason it didn’t work.
I did not necessarily mean nice personality as a nice person, more like more attractive personality. It is well established that the personality of a woman in her 20s is quite different than post 30s. This includes a collection of a lot of little things she does and how she is both direct and indirect that make her much more fun and hot. These are things like playfulness, shyness, cockettishness, and what does woman over 30 have? There are exceptions but they are indeed exceptions most of these women seem very bland. For those who are not sure what I am talking about try dating a 20 year old for a change and see the world of difference. It may not be everyone’s thing but in general it is considered attractive the personality of 20 year old women and it is yet another one of many reasons many men aren’t very interested in women over 30, never mind late 30s or beyond.
It’s funny because recently one of my women left me because “there are not as many things we like to do together in common”. The funny part is the example she has of a guy who did all the things she want with her is her ex who not only did not work out but she complained how distant her grew to her and kept saying over the past few months how amazing is everything I do with her and how there aren’t many guys like me. Well, good luck to her to find something better. She is now getting close to 30 so if she thinks she is going to have loads of choice for years to come in guys and that letting a guy go because he doesn’t wanna do some activities with her is a good reason than gods help her. But it is not just her, it is very common. They realize they made a mistake when they get to 35-38 and by then it is (almost) too late. Then they write these lists as a last protest / justification why they didn’t manage.
Recently I also talked with one woman, aged 38, whom I have not talked to since a while and she has told me how she would like a family but she has lost a lot of time because every time she dates some guy and it doesn’t work out (I didn’t get into asking why but I have some ideas) she loses months of getting over it and not being available emotionally for another guy. I have asked her then if she never considered that this emotional issue she has and the amount of time it takes is a problem she needs to work on? Or if she just always throws her hand in the air and says this is how my feelings are so it cannot be helped instead of seeking some professional support / therapy. She got very silent after that. Well, I guess she is very upset which was not the intention but I did want to push her a bit and provoke because she needs to start doing something about it if she wants a family still.
One last thing, there are plenty of guys who would be ecstatically happy to take many of these women. But the problem is…. wait for it… these women don’t want these guys. (and they often fulfill many or most of the things on these lists or are willing to adapt) C’est la vie.
PrepZ
Posted at 08:17 am, 31st October 2019Hey lady, stay single. The mere face that you have demands of me or any man is an instant DQ. It smacks of a petulant 3 year old who demands chocolate cookies, cake and ice cream instead of a nutritious breakfast. I’m not interested. And any man who can see through this as noting more but fantastical female fascism will have the same response. But woe to the beta boys out there who are brainwashed to accept the tripe as the only way to a woman’s holes.
Dale
Posted at 07:27 pm, 31st October 2019Back in the ’70s, doing #2-10 would make any feminist blow up!
Ihmc
Posted at 03:19 am, 8th November 2019These are called “copes”.
Since, as is natural, people (and women) with no life (= without the basic attributes needed to do something similar to living life) crowd social media, their “copes” crowd social media likewise.
If no-one (no-one whose interest you don’t feel even further humiliated by, let’s say) shows interest in you, it is a very convenient and helpful fantasy for your mind to develop that things are as they are because you are very, very, oh so very!, demanding.
Also, unconsciously, the unwanted and non-desired enjoy to advise other women so that these other women may become less wanted and desired.
Also, the Cultural Programmers program women in that direction for their own very good (for themselves, not for women) reasons, and of course it works the most on more propaganda-susceptible minds, which of course crowd social media (and quite overlap with people who feel they are failing at everything in their life).
AlphaOmega
Posted at 04:17 pm, 8th November 2019Classic. I always see women getting relationship and dating advice from friends and family members who are divorced / single mothers / can’t find the right guy / living alone with a zoo of pets etc. It is entertaining that they don’t seem to consider these are the worst possible people to get such advice from and then soon unsurprisingly they are in the same situation as them!
GhostofSteveMcQueen
Posted at 09:56 pm, 8th November 2019Anyone who complains about your content is a douche.
BK
Posted at 11:38 am, 2nd January 2020I have read some of your content and am finding it very helpful. I have one question though. You say there are only 3 kinds of relationships it seems: FB, MLTR, and OTLR. How do you feel about Polyamory and things like dating married women? Is it possible to date and care for a married woman beyond FB? It wouldn’t seem to fit your arrangements even though the ideas still fit to a degree.
Dude
Posted at 07:35 am, 18th March 2020“Dude. You’re going to need me all the fucking time and I’m busy working on my Mission. If you want a man who is present “when you need him,” make sure you go after a guy who doesn’t make very much money, doesn’t have a very exciting life or future, and has lots of free time. That isn’t me. Thank god.”
Aren’t you teaching Guys how to make a lot of money without working a lot of hours? Guys who follow your 2.0 lifestyle model would ironically be the ones most successful with traditionally monogamous Relationships. Cause they would be those unicorn man that have money AND time