My Response to MGTOWs
A while back, I posted an article about how more and more men were acting like man boys well into their 30s, making very little money, not really getting laid, and spending time playing video games and crap like that. In response, a pile of depressed, angry man boys came out of the woodwork and defended these men. Their argument was essentially that it wasn’t worth making money or living a great life because women suck now, or something.
Yes, that’s actually what they said. Many of these guys insulted me personally. Click the link above and check out the comments to see what depression and loserhood really look like.
Most of these guys are what’s called MGTOWs, or Men Going Their Own Way. These are men who are so angry at women (and left-wing society in general) that they’ve thrown their arms up in the air and eschewed marriage, dating women, and in some cases, even sex altogether. Yikes.
Much like the angry alt-right manosphere guys, most MGTOWs are blue pill men who are furious they can’t have their blue pill anymore like their grandpa could in 1952. The difference is that instead of going out and getting laid anyway, MGTOWs become unhappy, lazy man boys, often dealing with recurring feelings of anger, depression and resentment. Sound like fun?
Interestingly, I am a type of MGTOW myself. I’m just the pro-sex kind that loves women. Obviously I have removed myself from the standard system of traditional dating, betaization, drama, and the divorce-rape of men. However, I have done so in a way where I can have sex, companionship, and even love whenever I want. That’s what the FB / MLTR / OLTR models are all about.
As always, I follow a model of long-term, consistent happiness. The typical man boy MGTOW model is the opposite. It’s one of anger, resentment, laziness, immaturity, loneliness, and often depression.
Today I’m going to respond to the arguments that these men, and men like them, have made over the years, those espousing a low-income, low-sex, dependent, boring, sad life (outside of video games, porn and cheeseburgers, that is). In this type of life, exciting work, Mission, travel, and sex with hot babes are replaced by Hot Pockets, breakfast cereal, video games, and bitching on manosphere sites about how horrible everything is.
I don’t expect to change any of these men’s minds today. These guys have purposely decided to embark on a path of unhappiness and one article from me won’t change that. Instead, today’s post is really aimed at those of you out there who are leaning in this direction. Hopefully I can help turn some of you away from the abyss before it’s too late.
MGTOW Argument Number 1: Living a life of achievement isn’t worth it anymore because women today aren’t the sweet, loyal, submissive sweethearts they used to be.
This is the argument I’ve heard the most from the man boys. As you can probably already tell, it doesn’t make any sense, and it’s upsetting that I have to take the time to explain why it doesn’t make sense. Yet that is what I shall do. (The things I do for you guys!)
Here’s a quick test for you depressed MGTOWs:
Question 1: Which is the better scenario?
1. Never having sex with a girl, or at least a hot girl, for the rest of your life, and making $20,000 a year.
2. Never having sex with a girl, or at least a hot girl, for the rest of your life, and making $75,000 a year.
Yes, I know that’s a really hard question, requiring hours of analysis and self reflection. Uh huh.
One response might be that it takes more effort and stress to make $75K per year than $20K per year, but that’s not true, and I’ll explain why in a minute.
But let’s not get hung up on the numbers. Here’s an even better question. Again, it’s really, really hard…
Question 2: Which is the better scenario?
1. Never having sex with a girl, or at least a hot girl, for the rest of your life, and regularly being unable to pay your bills while experiencing constant financial problems because you don’t make enough money.
2. Never having sex with a girl, or at least a hot girl, for the rest of your life, and never having any financial stress because you make plenty of money enabling you to live a decently happy and independent life.
I know. I’m really blowing your mind here with the difficult questions. How about this one?
Question 3: Which is the better scenario?
1. Never having sex with a girl, or at least a hot girl, for the rest of your life, while being fat, feeling like shit whenever you look in the mirror, and having constant major health problems as you get older.
2. Never having sex with a girl, or at least a hot girl, for the rest of your life, while being relatively healthy and fit, smiling when you look in the mirror, and having near-zero health problems as you get older.
As you can see with these questions, I’ve demonstrated that even if you remove sex and/or women from the equation, you’ll still be happier if you make more money and pay attention to your personal fitness, as just two examples. I’ve explained this in great detail before. I’ve also talked about the studies that show that men are happier if they make at least $75,000 a year.
That’s just income and fitness. There is also happiness from things like travel, fun but more expensive activities, having a compelling Mission in life that brings you excitement, and various other things.
None of these things have anything to do with women! They can involve women, but they don’t have to. That’s up to you. If you say, “I don’t want to make lots of money because women are bitches,” then your entire view of life is bizarrely woman-centric. Making money makes you happier! It has nothing to do with women!
Back when I was 18 years old, living on my own and so poor I could barely buy groceries or put gas in my car, I fantasized about being rich, or at least having a high income. I NEVER thought this:
“I want to get rich so I can fuck hot girls someday!”
Nor did I ever think:
“I want to bust my ass and make a lot of money so I can find a good, loyal wife someday!”
I NEVER HAD THESE THOUGHTS. NEVER.
Instead, I wanted to earn more money because I was tired of stressing out about paying my electric bill every month. I was tired of looking at the amazing life rich people lived on TV that I couldn’t live. I wanted to drive a nice car, live in a nice home, visit Europe and Asia whenever I wanted, and relax on a beautiful beach.
There were no women anywhere in these wealthy fantasies. Of course, I was a horny 18 year-old just like all teenagers and I wanted to get laid, but thoughts about women were completely separate from my desires to make more money and thus live a better life. My desires for living a good life and making more money had nothing to do with women, sex, or marriage.
No one is saying you have to be a millionaire or make six figures (more on this in a minute), but more money will make you happier regardless of the women who are (or are not) in your life.
MGTOW Argument Number 2: Pickup and relationship techniques are playing women’s game. Fuck that! I’m not going to play their game! I’m just going to be either A) celibate or B) settle for a boring, average looking (monogamous) girlfriend or C) pay for hookers.
I’m having sex with multiple women at all times, without lying to any of them, usually getting from zero to sex in less than three hours and with less than $20 spent grand total. One third of the time it’s zero dollars. I rarely spend any real money on women in FB or MLTR relationships, yet these relationships often last many years.
Do you think I’m playing their game? Am I doing what women in society think is right and appropriate? Am I going along with the feminist agenda? Do you think a feminist would enjoy reading this blog? Am I being blue pill? Am I putting women on a pedestal? Am I making my life or my happiness any less good by having sex with these women?
The answer to all of these questions is no.
This entire blog and all of my books scream one very simple message: You can have tons of sex and relationships with hot women without playing their game.
Your argument might be, “Well, you have to make more money and look better if you want women, so you ARE playing their game.” Again, I would make more money and pay close attention to my physical appearance even if I never wanted to have sex with a woman ever again, as I’ve already explained here.
MGTOW Argument Number 3: The opportunities men had in the past are gone. Wages are lower, taxes are higher, college sucks now, jobs suck now, men are ridiculed, we have affirmative action for females, HR departments are anti-man, etc. Society is pretty much telling young men to fuck off. So yeah, playing video games and smoking weed and watching porn is a pretty good idea considering all of this shit.
Your assessment is correct. Your prescription for happiness is not.
I work with a 27 year-old guy who started from nothing three years ago, with tons of debt, and now makes $270,000 a year. How do you explain him?
My son, at age 24, is a sales manager at a startup, making good money. How do you explain him?
I met a guy last month, age 29, who started a signage company a few years ago and now nets $9,000 a month. By the way, this guy is a moron who can’t speak English correctly and never went to college. How do you explain him?
At a seminar I went to earlier this year, I met a guy who was 26 years old and worked for a local phone company with a salary of $71,000 a year. How do you explain him?
I could fill the next several pages with examples of young men, some of whom went to college and some who did not, who are making decent money right now, right this minute. These men live in the same fucked up, economically depressed, anti-man, leftist world as you do. How do you explain all of these guys? How do you explain me?
The only difference between these men and you is that while you sat around like a loser, complaining about how horrible everything is, these men did what I did when I was in my 20s. They read the books, got the advice they needed from more successful men, and got to work. When something didn’t work, they tried something else, and kept working. And now they make good money while you’re at home, poor and playing video games. While they’re counting their cash with big smiles, you’re going online and insulting people like me who are trying to help people like you.
These guys are happier than you are. In 20 years, they’ll still be happier than you.
You could be one of them if you wanted. But deep down you know you don’t want that. You want to be unhappy.
I’m glad I’m not you.
MGTOW Argument Number 4: Making money is too much work. Guys with high incomes work too hard and stress too much. It’s less stressful for me to just be a lazy, no-cash loser and not worry about it.
For most of my adult life, I have made a six figure income while working less than 30 hours per week. This even goes back to when I was a married beta male over 10 years ago. I worked seven or eight hours a day, Monday through Thursday, always took Fridays off, and never worked weekends. 30 hours a week. Six figure income. 31 years old. (Though I was not location independent back then like I am today; that came later.)
Making a lot of money requires hard work and stress if you do it the Societal Programming way. If you do it the smart way, the Alpha Male 2.0 way, you don’t need to work long hours at all. I certainly haven’t. (Note: To be clear, lately I’ve been working a little more than 30 hours a week, but I do so by choice. Technically, I don’t have to work those hours. As the women in my life often like to remind me, I could work half the hours I currently work, or less, and still be just fine in terms of lifestyle.)
Making lots of money on low work hours per week is what I do and what I teach. It’s my thing. Refer to my book and my time management blog for more detailed information on how to do that.
Thinking that the ONLY way to make good money is to bust your ass and stress yourself out for decades on end is just you surrendering to false and outdated Societal Programming.
MGTOW Argument Number 5: Not everyone can be a rich entrepreneur who fucks a bunch of girls! Society could never work that way!
Correct, it couldn’t. But I’m not talking about society. I never am. I’m talking about YOU. This blog is not aimed at “society” and it never will be. It’s aimed only at the 10% of men who want a better life. That’s it. The other 90% of men can go fuck themselves for all I care (and they have, via their lifestyle and political choices over the last few decades).
I don’t give society advice. I used to do that, way back in the 1990s when we still had a fighting chance. Back then I was very politically active for American third parties like Ross Perot, the Libertarian Party and the Reform Party. But that was a long time ago. Around the early 2000s, we passed the point of no return. Today, as I’ve clearly explained many times over multiple blogs, Western society is fucked no matter what you or I do.
So instead of giving advice to society (which is already screwed beyond repair at this point), today I give advice to individuals, who can be saved.
I give advice to you. Yes, you, the guy who is reading this right now on his computer, phone or tablet. You.
Not every man can be a successful entrepreneur. But you can.
Not every man can bang hot chicks. But you can.
Not every man can be an Alpha Male 2.0. But you can.
Not every man can live a location independent lifestyle. But you can.
None of these things require being someone special. In my 25 year business career, I’ve seen complete idiots, I mean serious morons, make piles of money. (Nothing will piss you off more than meeting a guy who is dumber than you, but makes more money than you.) In my near 10 year PUA “career,” I’ve seen the ugliest, poorest guys bang the hottest chicks I’ve ever seen. (Nothing will piss you off more than meeting a guy who is uglier than you AND makes less money than you while having sex with a hotter woman than you, though fortunately I haven’t met any of these guys in a while.)
You can do it. It takes work. It takes time. But you can do it if you want to.
I’m not saying you need to be a multi-millionaire, or make six figures, or have sex with 19 year-old LA models. Seriously, you don’t need to do any of that in order to be happy.
All I’m saying is to get your income up to $75K per year, and get enough balls to have one MLTR or OLTR who is at least kinda cute and just one FB on the side. That’s it. That’s achievable by any man reading these words.
As I’ve said before, your excuses will never make you happy. But making a little more money and getting a little more sex definitely will.
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I was confused as I thought myself to be a man going my own way. But it seems this MGTOW has become associated with men going nowhere. I am single, I have downsized my home, am self employed, have three different income streams, generally love life and women. I have provided for my older age.
So thanks BD for clarifying this in this thread. Looks like there are Alpha 2.0 MGTOW and Angry MGTOW although as I say, they are really MGN. Men going nowhere.
Great article man. I liked your style. Logical and direct.
Any man who consciously avoids marriage, cohabitation, LTRs or some other form of relationshit with women is himself a man going his own way aka MGTOW, whether he knows or not. Only there are different shades of MGTOWs. I consider myself one of them and I enjoy reading your blog since I believe the info you put out is valuable especially for younger men so they can become Alphas 2.0 and avoid the pitfalls of marriage and cohabitation. I have given up on chasing women quite a few years ago and only go for the occasional pump and dump with the least investment of my time and my money. So keep up the good work BD. You’re definetly a MGTOW! Just slightly different than some other mgtows out there. Respects from Italy.
Well that was a breath of fresh air. Glad to see the red pill/manosphere or whatever the hell its called now disassociating itself with the negative perma-virgins.Yeah things aren’t ideal whoopty-doo whining and bitching like a little bitch never solved anything for anyone ever. I think what most of these “men” want is validation. They don’t want to improve or change they want to sit around and commiserate because lo and behold life isn’t fair. Don’t get wrong when first exposed to the red pill it stings for a bit but ultimately you supposed to grow from it. Great article.
Dude you are describing low life losers who cant get their shit together yet calls themselves MGTOWs. MGTOWs call them true forced loneliness, “TFL”.
MGTOWs go their own way away from relationships with women. They follow their path to their life goals and success. You are confusing MGTOWs with TFLers or losers.
BD,
I liked how you tied finances and fitness in the 1st part of your writing. I lost 30lbs and opened up a Roth IRA since my breakup. I just finished grad school and need to drop some more weight before joining the military. What I think a lot of MGTOW guys don’t understand is that MGTOW doesn’t mean no women, it simply means NO WIFE & NO CONTRACTS WITH WOMEN. Enjoy women, just don’t be stupid enough to be a provider for them. Those guys don’t seem to understand that if you take care of yourself, physically and financially, you can still get women. Just don’t get tied down and have an abundance mentality about life and women. I plan on traveling to Tokyo in the next month or two.
This video speaks more towards what BD is talking about. I laughed my ass off with the NBA analogy.
>MGTOW Argument Number 3: The opportunities men had in the past are gone.
I wanted to double down on this BD. This argument is 100% completely wrong. There has never been a time in history when there were more opportunities for men, especially for men who “go their own way” that is to say, who think outside the box, who are willing to follow a different path than their ancestors.
The most obvious example of this is the web. No other time in history has it been so easy to start your own business with almost zero start up cost. No other time in history has it been so cheap to reach an international market of just about everyone on the planet. No other time in history has it been so easy to access information on how to make a successful business (or meet and date women, or get better at that video game, or whatever else you care about) than it is today. No other time in history has it been more accepting to start your own thing. No other time in history has it been so easy to find outside help (web design, programming, personal assistant, tech support, phone answering services, research services, accountants, copy editors etc.) for prices that at no other time in history have been so low due to globalization. I mean the list goes on and on. (For example, I work in software dev, and I had this peripheral task to do that would have taken me a couple of weeks. I got someone offshore to do it for me for $150. Compared to what I make consulting for two weeks, that is a rounding error.)
Oh and BTW, online dating has transformed the world of male/female relationships. It is better for both men and women, but it has massively swung the pendulum in favor of men. (BTW if you can’t understand how it can be better for both, but more better for men, then you have zero sum thinking, something that is the source of a lot of errors.) If you don’t see or experience that, it is because you are not doing it right. (I think BD has a book that can help you with that…. It used to be to learn that stuff cost you thousands of dollars, and ten years of practice experience. I think BD’s book costs, what, like, $100? Yeah, things really are going to hell in a handbasket…. not.)
If you want to live your life like your gandpappy, Argument #3 is right, that world is gone and thank god! It has been replaced by a much better world.
I’m 23 years old. Never had a girlfriend before. Decided to go halfway MGTOW (cause full version of it is complete hatred towards women…), and consumed a lot of red pills typically from Rollo.
Yes, some women & guys will call me mysognistic because the way i present my thoughts on relationship forum. (They’re still believing the disney romances, the fact that the woman can love’em forever but in fact women cannot love a man unconditionally unless her biological imperatives are being met.)
Can you give some advice on how to tackle these purple/blue pill men, BD? (Just igore them completely? Or tackle their male shaming with relevant evidences proving)
I know we gonna have a sense of internal fulfillment versus sucking all those societal conditioned; unhealthy external validations. The girls that i’ve dated recently (nearly zero provider-ish vibe presented by me), still they ain’t interested hanging out with me anymore, because i told them ”i’m not looking for anything serious” from the way i speak/present myself via these online messages on relationship’s advises.
Thoughts on living peacefully as a red pill guy? Plus male & female nature? (Cause i haven’t seen you touched much about this subject here.)
Thanks for your work BD, btw. Luckily i’ve found your work regarding DO NOT GET MARRIED, especially how the society today functions, plus the male & female nature largely exposed by the MGTOWs. I think they have a great explanation on this.
MGTOW is akin to kids who try out for sports and take their ball and go home because they don’t have the natural skill or will to work and learn the skills necessary play at a higher level.
They are losers.
@Tom, I’m not BD, but I’ll tell you what I think.
> Can you give some advice on how to tackle these purple/blue pill men, BD?
What makes you happy? Why do you “tackle” them. If you are doing it because you enjoy it, go for it. If you are doing it to validate yourself, or to “fix the internet” then you are wasting your time. Most likely, you are best getting away from these people. My read on you is that you live WAY to much in your head, and you need to get out and live a little. (I could be wrong on that, it is just the vibe I get.)
> because i told them ”i’m not looking for anything serious”
Dude, I’ll tell you straight up. Women at 23 and younger are generally not “looking for something serious” irrespective of what they say. Women that age are generally looking for a fun, confident guy who will be a lot of fun to hang with and will rock their world in the sack. Whatever vibe you are putting out, it is not “fun and confident”. Fix that and any physical issues you might have (like get in better shape — not Adonis, but reasonable — make yourself look reasonably fashionable) and they will be lining up for you. Use web dating sites. They are embarrassingly easy. It is almost like cheating.
You are 23 dude, not 53. Go, bust your ass to make some good money. Love yourself for who you are, and put that self confidence out there, Get laid a lot. Be happy. You are a lucky bastard dude. You live in an extremely rich country, in a time in history when living the dream has never been more accessible. Don’t squander all that opportunity having pointless discussions on the web.
Those purple pull guys? Know the best answer to them? Living your life on your terms and being awesome.
And I assure you an utterly awesome life is waiting at your fingertips. Don’t let it slip away because of what other people thing. Molon labe.
@Fraser,
Yeah, sometimes im just lazy to qualify myself to these bluepill men who think that ”if you’re not in a relationship, you’re just a pathetic loser.” I’m trying not to be arrogant, cause i’ve seen more than them because of people’s experiences, And they’ll use shaming techniques to put you down onto their same level. I just need more life experiences outdoor now. Yes, you’re correct about making money. If I make adequate money, i can do whatever the fuck I want, and not caring about female’s validation completely.
About the 23 year old woman. She says she’s looking for that ”honest, young, handsome, japanese” man. I doubt so, women have dualistic sexual strategy, which is alpha fucks, beta bucks. I challenged her to date older japanese men, and see how. I just don’t believe what women say nowadays, only seeing through their actions.
You’re overlooking the aspergers/autistic types. The ones that
REALLY hate women are the ones’s who are emotional cripples.
All they’ve known is failure. They are maligned as creeps. They can’t
get the time of the day-or anything else-from a woman. So they become
injustices collectors. Drip, drip, drip, builds up the rage.
To make matters worse, if they come from spoiled enviornments and are
privy to media induced fantasies, and manage to get a gun… If their
mothers help them to procure guns..
A statement made about women is that “You can’t live WITH them, and
you can’t live WITHOUT them.” That might apply to the Western world.
Everything becomes a possesion. Eastern philosphy is more easy come,
easy go. Eastern religions. Some are even opposed to ejaculation.
Are you old enough to remember a T.V. program called “Kung Fu?”
Cain-the title character-could care less if he got laid or not.
Al, nicely spotted. From now on, let’s differentiate between independent MGTOW and angry MGNow[here] : )
Correct. I’m the happy type of MGTOW who gets laid a lot and makes good money and lives a wonderful life. The type of MGTOW this article is for is the opposite.
True. I have an entire chapter in my book on exactly that.
1. There is no such thing as “purple pill,” just like you can’t be “semi-monogamous” or “half-married” or have a “50% girlfriend.” “Purple pill” is a blue pill guy embarrassed to admit he’s blue pill.
2. I will respond to arguments and criticism, but I don’t go out of my way to”tackle” anyone. Men are welcome to their fucked-up beliefs. Remember, I only care about 10% of men, at best. The other 90% are free to be as dumb, deluded, and Disney as they like.
Read my book.
Uh, you might want to adjust your glasses, because I’ve written scores of articles (and books) on exactly that topic. Read the archive for this blog.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I always do.
Even when I do, I still get the “Not all MGTOWs are like that BD!” guys.
Morpheus explains what is the matrix
I’m gonna start using this one…!
I liked what Al said about men going nowhere
Even though I make fun of them, it’s easy to see why manosphere/MGN guys are so angry. It’s hard not to be when everything you been told and everything you’ve idealised is a crock of shit. It just comes down to how you choose to deal with it. Accept it for what it is and make the best of it, or rage quit from life.
At around 19 I used to be like them, then I realised A) my happiness and enjoyment of life is independent of what happens to society, and B) women don’t want to fuck angry losers!
if you can’t motivate yourself, then how can you attract anything? Do what moves you and you will move the right women. seek a therapist, or a doctor. Get yo ass up, get out there, ask for help and find shit that inspires you. That shit aint gonna come knocking on your door.
Blackdragon system works. Although I am not doing what I really want to do yet, Within 4 years I have gotten sex consistently, I’m traveling, and I am also making 40k more than I was in 2013. Good insight BD. I’ll be contacting you in time.
IMO MGTOWfags (MY name for the angry MGTOW) judge their self esteem WAY too much on chicks, which also means that they are constantly running from their possible homosexuality which they are trained is bad, bad, BAD! Its like toxic masculinity (the idea that a man is defined by how many chicks he’s had sex with) dictated their lives at some point, chicks picked up on it, shot them down for having such low knowledge of self, and they’ve given up. But since they are still ruled by Toxic Masculinity, they don’t want to admit that they might be gay. This is still a theory in progress for me, but I am purporting that MGTOWfag are closet homosexuals. OR they are more attracted to pornography than actual chicks. Who knows.
I was a MGTOWfag once; but this was in high school where you (generally) couldn’t broadcast your hatred for chicks on the internet. So I had to get over me being butthurt about rejection, I didn’t really have a choice. I will say this: In my MGTOWfag phase, I was never worried that I was gay, but I WAS addicted to pornography.
If MGTOWfags weren’t so pissy and didn’t act like their own version of SJWs who are “fighting the good fight against hypergamy,” I’d be inclined to agree with them. I mean I suppose I’m similar to BD in that I just casually date and have FBs and stuff, but I make WAY less money than him. If you don’t run up a bunch of personal debt, its pretty easy to live off of an income of $20000 or so. I’ve been doing it for roughly five years and my buddies are saying that I’m looking YOUNGER every year lol. And I have way more energy now than I did when I was under the SP of “money = Status” in my early 20s. I don’t care about having nice things, which constitutes most of the $75000 a year income that BD talks about, or at least in my experience.
If this makes me some weird hippie or something, then whatever. I went out cold approaching last week, got to talking to some chick, found out that there was a fire at her job and the place burned down, we went to leave, she goes to her new push button start car and was like “you jealous?” and I’m like “not really, my job didn’t just burn down. Your car’s pretty cool, though.” Everyone has their own advantages and struggles. So what if her car is cooler than mine? At least my job didn’t burn down to the ground.
I don’t go out of my way to bitch and complain about how horrible things are for me etc like MGTOWfags do. I mean I may have at one point, but not anymore, until 25 or so I was known for it, but it made me charismatic too (similar to the late 90s TV series Becker if anyone knows what I’m talking about). I definitely don’t do it irl (or on any platform where I’m using this screenname) anymore without making fun of myself after. I used to post on the misc’s forever alone board and message boards dedicated to hating chicks and PUAs, but it was usually all for laughs or to vent anyways. A couple years ago, an FB of mine just stopped talking to me; I definitely vented about that. But I didn’t give up on life and chicks because of it. Instead I immediately got out there and made a new FB.
There is no “conspiracy against men, (involuntary celibate males in particular)” like MGOTWfags like to think. They think like that because its VERY easy to act like a victim nowadays; you get support from other victims, and because the internet is accessible pretty much anywhere you can spend days not leaving the house and getting the same support and sense of community from your MGTOWfag hugbox (credit Encyclopedia Dramatica for the term “hugbox,” that website is hilarious and that term is VERY accurate lol) than you would ANY support group, or at least a variation of it.
My final view? Let MGTOWfags run free! The more boys give up on life, the more opportunities for me. It’ll always be a dog eat dog world and everyone is a supremacist for their own little groups anyways. SJWs of all forms are just background noise and sources of entertainment for me. Like BD says, I’ll be over here being happy.
Yeah this happened to me in high school, but the difference is that back when I was in high school I couldn’t just go to the misc or /pol/ or PUAhate to be welcomed by other MGNs who have given up on life. IMO that’s the part that interests me the most: The fact that MGN have their own hugboxes that enable them to give up on life. Combine that with more and more parents letting their kids in their 20s and even 30s live with them, and its not difficult to see MGN becoming a thing at all.
Leaving home is a wrench for some people and the refusal to do many things is based on fear. Fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear of loss. So it’s easier (with a free roof over your head) to do nothing. That way you can’t fail. (Albeit I would see the stagnation as failure in itself.) If you don’t approach women then you can’t be rejected. If you don’t attempt a relationship, you won’t lose a friend or partner.
Many people will do more to avoid pain than to gain pleasure.
But as we say, that’s okay, I’m here being happy. 🙂
Incorrect. These are MSTOW, or Men *Sent* Their Own Way.
These are the men who feel dejected by society, and instead of conscious work to improve their lot in life, they have withdrawn from any attempt at self-actualization.
I think of MGTOW as the businessman who isn’t currently dating women because he’s spending 80 hours a week on some massive project, the martial artist who’s training 2-a-days 6 days a week, the man who’s decided to dedicate his time to building wells in villages in Africa, etc. Some of these men could succeed with women outside of their hobby if they wished. Others maybe not so much. But that part of the point is irrelevant. The point that matters, is that they have consciously chosen to abstain from or limit their time/energy spent on/with women and have accepted the trade off of that decision.
MSTOW has made no such decision. The decision was made for them and their reaction is to sulk, be miserable, and bitch about how unfair everything is to other sad-sacks in the MSTOW world who will commiserate with them. They haven’t *chosen* to set out on their own, they’ve simply given up altogether.
That is a very important distinction.
You come off as if people who are not like you are somehow defective. People are different, have different abilities needs and desires. Some people don’t care about money beyond paying the bills. Some people don’t care about sex merely for its own sake. Some people flat out do not like to work.
We need all of those kinds of people. We need people who want families too, even if you think of them as dumb. And as you must no doubt have stumbled over in your research, women lose the ability to pair bond the more different cocks they have had, destroying their ability to parent properly. Your lifestyle, while excellent for you, is actively hurting people. Which won’t stop you from doing it, of course, because you are as human as the rest of us.
It’s all connected. People respond to incentives, and there are precious few in this society. We are mammals, and respond to stimuli like other mammals do. That’s all there is to it.
If you can’t be happy WITHOUT it, you won’t be happy with it.
“Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven, and all these things will be
added on.”
The issue isn’t how much sex you get. Elvis and J.F.K. got plenty of sex.
Look where they are now. Once you’re gone, it makes no difference
how much sex you’ve had.
Either there’s nothing after death or there’s probably a different kind of
life after death then most people don’t suspect.
Your time will probably be taken up with more important things then sex.
Only the non-identified person is free. Then he can take or leave temptation.
“Ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free.”
I am so glad I read your blog today. I was feeling sorry for myself and cursing woman especially some who have rejected me in the past. You smacked me into reality after reading one of those sites. I have been following you since my divorce and you have steered me often I. the right direction. Thanks.
Respond to the specific points I make, not my tone.
This is fine as long as those people are truly happy being that way. The above article is directed at people like this who are not happy. If you’re not happy, you need to make changes in your life.
You’re repeating MGTOW arguments I already addressed in the article (specifically argument number 5).
I don’t think people having families is dumb and have never said such a thing. I have a family myself and I love my children. Families are wonderful.
Incorrect, and I have never uncovered this in my research. Some studies show that women AND MEN suffer higher divorce rates and/or infidelity if they’ve had sex with a lot of people, but these people can still pair bond, and do.
How? Please be very precise with your answer. I can’t wait to hear it.
You’re repeating MGTOW arguments I already addressed in the article (specifically argument number 3).
Listen. If you want to be unhappy and live a life of unhappiness, that’s fine, but just be honest about it. Don’t try to attack me because you chose to be unhappy. I have nothing to do with it. And don’t try to defend your lifestyle as if being unhappy is somehow a good thing. It isn’t.
The tone is part of the message. It was in fact what prompted my response. Nobody is entirely unbiased and objective, but sometimes it shines through a bit too much.
I’m talking about reality. Without people doing all the things you say they should not do, we would not last another fifty years. Your lifestyle is enabled by them, by society as a whole.
Yes, but you would not have children if you had started where you are now. And only one when, or if, you eventually did. You have two if I recall? Which one would you sacrifice?
Besides which, that is only half of what we need to sustain the population, and the society that gives your children and grandchildren the standard of living we have.
The number of sexual partners for women correlates with the risk of divorce. This is pure numbers. If you have not heard about this then you may wish to review some of Molyneux’ vids before debating him.
Higher sexual partner count increases divorce risk and lowers female parental investment, thus hurting the next generation (and subsequent ones), as well as the very women you fuck.
You can of course tell yourself that if not you, then they would have sex with someone else. But you are still the one doing it.
I don’t care if those people have similar arguments. We are mammals. This is a biological fact. You can very much train a human to drool when a dinner bell rings.
It isn’t even about me. If it was I wouldn’t give a damn about society as a whole. It would be much simpler. But I do, and that may be where we diverge.
Damn seeing this and where I’ve been. Life experiences and all, suffering extreme depression, had some hardships dating.
I’ve tried a lot of self help books. Learn to be more assertive, pickup, business, ETC.
I’ve gotten a lot better I’m about 75-80% of the way of where I want to be. Def Alapha (more 1.0), but still need help dating wise (much).
I read Unchanined Man and that was honestly what has me on this site every other day if not everyday.
I think it’s time for me to join SMIC to shelve that extra 10-15% better.
Blindlo let’s say you have a monogamous gf. She cheats on you and goes on to marry the next guy(who is much more of a provider) and have children with him. Because he is clueless about sex and about women she gets bored of him and divorces him(not cheat on him but just divorce him) because she simply can’t stand seeing him. She wanted to do that years before their children became 18. But she sucked it up and waited few more years.
Both him and her had few years of really happy life. Now they are both miserable and both are not getting any younger. Both seek new partners in their life but it’s difficult to find one because a) they have minimal SMV b) became more suspicious towards the opposite sex and screen more. Divorce also affected the children towards their career goals and also affects their relationships.
You will never EVER see that woman again. You knew if you could show her her life that staying with you was the better path, because you knew women better and understood their feelings better and you were giving far better advices than the provider guy. Oh and you were far better at sex. That life was wasted and had more misery than happiness.
You on the other hand went on meeting and getting laid with new women, new personalities, new experiences etc etc. rarely have problems with any of these women, then you find that special one who is happy to follow your path and has a small family with you. You get separated along the way, but what the hell not much fuss, still friends, children are ok because they don’t see their parents have childish fights after the separation but instead are acting like adults and are friendly. You also both can find new partners easily as you were not that much out of the dating market.
Who is contributing AGAINST society? You, the non-monogamous women, the monogamous gf or the provider monogamous guy? In the end who makes more better personalities out of the people around him/her, have better relationships with people around him/her even if sporadically and make the opposite sex happier? You, the non monogamous women, the monogamous gf or the monogamous provider guy?
I’m seeing long monogamous relationships(15+ years) getting destroyed left and right and I’m fed up of how this people end up. Suicides, miserable women/men, women/men that let their life on autopilot and have no drive, women that were happy and upbeat when they were younger, became more disrespectful towards men(rightfully as more men are becoming pussies and spoil these women).
@hey hey, a (fictional) data point does not make a statistic.
Humans don’t act randomly. When looking at groups, there are very predictable behaviors. And of course there are exceptions to anything, but a culture is not built on exceptions.
Also, let me clarify my position: The current laws are wrong. As long as women have legal and social power in relationships, things will get worse not better. Because humans respond to incentives, and women are, as a group, incapable of looking very far ahead into the future.
A single point of a a lifestyle you accuse of hurting people. I didn’t speak about statistics, I spoke about a scenario of lifestyles. But you didn’t answer to my questions.
Still people divorce in high rates, not because of this lifestyle but because of society nowadays. And it’s going to get worse. Nothing you can do to stop it. So you can either dream the non existent lifetime happy marriage, rely on some other person to make that dream true or you can simply make your life and the people around you happier(whoever wants to be and remain in your life that is).
Your questions are fictional. And irrelevant. Individuals can do all sorts of things. Society is about statistics.
Did you even read the article? I’m not talking about society. I’m talking about you, BlindIo.
I think you need to go back and re-read the article. Slowly.
I have literally never said this. I said if I were to do it all over again I would have children well after age 40 and probably have two, like I have now.
We can’t carry on a conversation if you keep misquoting me.
Correct. That is exactly what I just said in my last comment.
I’m seriously starting to think you don’t know how to read.
Only a drastically higher partner count, and I don’t advocate fucking tons of women, as I just said in my most recent podcast. I don’t fuck lots of women, I just fuck more than one. More than one is not equal to many.
To repeat what I said in the article which you clearly did not read, a guy just needs one OLTR or MLTR and one FB on the side. That’s it. Two women. Not 50 or 100. Two. This doesn’t hurt anyone.
But I care if you keep repeating points I already specifically addressed in my article.
Yes it is.
You mentioned bias…at least I’m open and up-front about mine and don’t hide from it.
If you want to continue this conversation you need to A) stop misquoting me, which you’ve done at least three times now, and B) stop repeating specific points I already addressed in the article (unless you have something brand new to say about them that has not been said yet, which I doubt). If you can’t do either of those two things, this will be my last comment to you in this thread. Thanks.
This isn’t an existentialism blog. We’re not here to explore the deeper ethological purpose of those stains that dried up on your Egyptian cotton sheets. We’re here to help unhappy men break free from the chains of SP, and find true happiness.
Then act like it. Offer some value to the people you allegedly care about, instead of judging us for “being judgy”.
No they are not irrelevant. You said your lifestyle(individual not society) is hurting people. Your remark was fictional. You have no idea if it hurts people or not. You guess.
So i gave you a scenario for this remark and i asked you to tell me who contributes more towards hurting society as a whole.
If more and more people had this lifestyle instead of the turmoil that monogamous relationships bring in the last few decades, would they influence society in a more bad way? This is the question.
And since you are talking about statistics don’t worry because most people will keep on doing what they are doing. It doesn’t mean it is the best they could get out of their lives or that it makes them really happy. And it is a loss of potentials.
Have you considered that you might be out of touch with the realities that young people face these days? Just like the grandpa who tells his grandchildren to go to the nearest factory, ask to speak to the boss, introduce themselves, give him a firm handshake and start working for free – the boss will hire them after the first month.
Not all MGTOW are lazy, poor whatevas. But I’ll say that I only get my MGTOW info from their u-tube videos, and I don’t read their literature. MGTOW videos are usually done by men who have a business.
Is it really shitty life experience that turns men into MGTOWs? They experience a shitty life with women this is a contributing factor I believe. Because I have a very hard time seeing a popular soccer player from ages 10-25 ever becoming a MGTOW later in his life. And I have a hard time seeing a spoiled rich kid from ages 10-35 becoming a MGTOW in his later years. Those are rare life experiences for most men. But MGTOW is too new still. Who knows. The number of ex-party girls who have become vocal, men degrading feminists into their post-beautiful looking years I never would of guess would be so high.
“If you do it the smart way, the Alpha Male 2.0 way, you don’t need to work long hours at all. I certainly haven’t.”
Do you take into account the time you spent making money while not actually ‘working’? Reading the books, having the conversations, tracking the progress, dealing with the failures, all the thoughts and effort that gets put into that, even getting to bed early when you feel like enjoying the night because you ‘have to get up early for work’, it all adds up to a lifestyle that the man going his own way may choose not to deal with and not necessarily feel angry, frustrated or unhappy about.
Then how do you explain all the examples I gave of men in their 20s making decent money right now? (And I could provide many more.) How do you explain all the men in their 20s getting laid right now too?
I’m not some out of touch old man in his 70s who hasn’t worked in the workforce for 15 years. I’m a guy in his 40s who works seven days a week as a business consultant, working and communicating with literally thousands of people working in the same exact workforce as you.
If you’re seriously trying to convince people that modern day realities are forcing young men to be losers at gunpoint, you’re going to have to do much better than that. I suggest you re-read the article and read Gil Galad’s comment above about how it’s actually easier for men to make money today than it was before there was an internet.
Your excuse is the weakest I’ve seen so far.
Depends on the item you listed…
No.
Yes, to all three.
Explain to me how thoughts are work. Most thoughts I had regarding this were positive and fun, not negative or stressful.
I didn’t have to get up early for most of those years. I still don’t. I can wake up whenever I want. Again, read my book to learn how to make money without having to wake up early and staying up as late as you want.
Note: I do prefer to wake up by 8:30-9am, which is why I don’t do night game (for example), but that’s by choice.
To repeat from the above article which you seemed to have missed:
Thinking that the ONLY way to make good money is to bust your ass and stress yourself out for decades on end is just you surrendering to false and outdated Societal Programming.
Seriously, do any of you defensive guys have any points to raise that I didn’t already cover in the article? I was hoping for better discourse. You’re not looking good here.
“Thinking that the ONLY way to make good money is to bust your ass and stress yourself out for decades on end is just you surrendering to false and outdated Societal Programming.”
I don’t think you realize how much work you really put into getting where you are now. It seems easy to you now because a lot of it is habit, much like the natural who can’t understand the AFC that doesn’t get women. To me, even now you seem like a guy working too much. In the past busting your hump for this goal was exactly what you did.
You said in your book you got to speak to Brian Tracy and he asked you ‘What do you do after reaching your goal? Will you stop working?’ And it didn’t even cross your mind to just enjoy life without it. Work is part of your fiber and that’s not true for all of us. Your lack of money when little seems to have hurt so much, not dedicating your life to making money was not an option for you. The effort you put in didn’t really feel like effort, it came naturally to you.
I disagree that MGTOW’s are just losers.
At nearly 40, I have slept with upwards of 45 women, and been in several LTR‘s. I am considered attractive, but I’m not a “normie rich guy” with money to burn and a hot car. The PUA’s need to acknowledge that at a certain point, American women cease to be enough of an incentive to bust ass trying to get their attention. The cost/benefit breakdown is pretty clear. Consider it from the perspective of a shorter, less muscular, less attractive guy; maybe a guy with less of an endowment. It’s easy to bash people as “losers” and sort of feels the same as the feminists telling them to “man up” and marry a toxic modern woman and go into massive debt forever.
I still chase women, though I’m lazy, but the 3 of the 4 I slept with this year, while all attractive, were the following: a BPD headcase, a polyamorous/hotwife/cuckold’s wife, and last but not least, the classic hot 31 year old single mom. I have high sex drive and have no problem approaching, but I’m seriously thinking of leaving the country. If men who are less successful at gaming women are catching on that men who are better at it are fed up, why shame them for it?
It’s no different than economics. You can’t shame someone into investing in a lemon.
I do enjoy your blog and you seem to usually offer sound advice, but MGTOW bashing sort of smacks of “saving the business” for PUA’s in the face of a “product” (i.e. women) that doesn’t offer much anymore. What PUA’s sell isn’t going to be in demand much longer now that “betas” (hate the term and hate the punching down) are figuring out that even the “alphas” know it’s all a crock of shit and a rigged game.
I worked extremely hard in my early 20s to get where I am. I’ve said this many times.
Getting to a decent income will require you to work pretty hard for 1-3 years. After that, you can kick back if you choose (assuming you take my Alpha 2.0 business advice). To repeat, making $75,000 a year does not require a lifetime of work unless you do it wrong. You keep implying that making $75K requires years and years of sacrificing, back-breaking work. It does not.
I have never said this.
I’m a MGTOW and I’m not a loser.
Then you are not the man this article is addressed to.
Good. I’m leaving too. 2025 can’t come fast enough.
Every independently minded man who desires happiness should make plans to leave the Western world within 5-15 years.
Where are all these men in their 20s or 30s who are great at getting laid suddenly giving up? I don’t see them (barring the rare exception to the rule). Instead, I see:
1. Men around 40 or over who get tired of gaming and want to settle down, or at least want something that’s less work (perfectly understandable). I think you may be in this category. I am too.
2. Men well under 40 who suck at getting laid, barely even try, and whine about how horrible everything is and remain unhappy.
3. Men who get laid a lot.
I don’t see lots of strong game Alpha Males, who are well under age 40, who are getting laid left and right suddenly throwing their arms in the air and giving up because it’s suddenly become too hard. Frankly, I don’t think I’ve ever seen this. Even if you think of guys like Roosh, he’s approaching 40.
As I’ve said many times, you may not like my answer, but at least I have one. You don’t have an answer for these men other than to attack my answer.
If you don’t like my system and solutions for these unhappy men, and if you think one MLTR/OLTR and one FB on the side, plus around a $75K income per year is completely impossible for these guys, then fine…please lay out a clear and specific system for these unhappy low-sex, low-income MGTOWs to find long-term, consistent happiness. I’ll be waiting for your step-by-step system.
Or…you could agree that my system is better than nothing even if you dislike aspects of it.
Oh, sure, I’m not saying that guys with few skills couldn’t learn a lot from these blogs. My point is that the end result of success – landing and keeping a desirable mate – isn’t the same anymore in this country.
Hit and quit, etc. Sure, go to town young man and enjoy yourself, but for the guys who really don’t have a chance at that, maybe it’s time we were honest with them and own up to the fact that there aren’t many true “girl-next-door” types around anymore. The less hot sister with the heart of gold is just as programmed as her sexier peers, so beware.
I would also agree that the adventure of dating and sex has to be lived and endured, and any man failing to even try is missing out on some real character building that applies to business and creative relationships. That said, brave people fall off mountains or drown in the ocean all the time, so it’s important to know the landscape and they weather conditions and when to call it a day.
“Every independently minded man who desires happiness should make plans to leave the Western world within 5-15 years.”
5 years in South Korea (3 ESL teaching, 2 grad school). Taking a break at the moment, but I’ll be back.
“Getting to a decent income will require you to work pretty hard for 1-3 years. After that, you can kick back if you choose (assuming you take my Alpha 2.0 business advice).”
1-3 years? That’s appealing but working pretty hard is a nebulous concept that may not be available to a guy that has not worked hard for many years. I would love a system for those 1-3 (though I expect more like 5) years when starting from scratch, like you presented for pick-up, for guys over 30 that managed to kid it out over the years 🙂
Puritanical 1950s horseshit and slut shaming detected. Employing red pill countermeasures now!
Families come in all shapes and sizes. You’re obviously talking about the 1950s tradcon monogamous family. Let it die, man. Let it die!
This is slut shaming, sex-hating, and heterophobic garbage spewed by the likes of Heartiste, Roosh, Matt Forney and other puritanical dinosaurs who belong in the 1610 Massachusetts Bay Colony, or a modern Muslim country (same thing).
My girlfriend is getting close to 100 lays herself. She’s very excited about reaching that mark. Her and I are still very pair bonded. Your virgin worship is nonsense and your cult of virginity is dying, while being replaced with sex-positivism and freedom for both sexes. That’s why you’re pissed. I don’t know what to tell you, except if someone bought you a one way plane ticket to Saudi Arabia, would you go? You’d be happier!
The only people our lifestyle is hurting is tradcons like you with Disney purity fetishes. And my goal is to continue hurting you until you and your prudish kind are politically extinct.
This is not correct. Open/poly relationships exist (ask me how I know) and they can produce stable families and stable societies. In fact, children raised in poly homes are so much happier than in your monogamous and cheating or monogamous and miserable tradcon shitholes. I’ve seen these children first hand. And I’ve seen how much the parents love each other, how relaxed they are, and how happy they are, as they go to their next swinger party.
Good! We don’t have enough divorce. Divorce is a restoration of sanity. Marriage, on the other hand, is an insane curse that you tradcons nourish, just like you worship at the alter of the unbroken hymen. It’s pathetic.
Then we need to do everything we can to increase women’s partner count!
Complete tradcon trash talk! I’ve seen these poly families first hand (I hope to start a poly family with my girlfriend soon, as we’re talking about having babies!) and those mothers (and fathers) are super invested in their kids!
You’re spewing heterophobia, slut shaming, and general Disney filth!
I love my girlfriend very much. As I said, her lay count is about to reach 100. By cheering her on, I’m not hurting her. By having threesomes with her and other women/men, I’m not hurting her. By having sex with her myself, I’m not hurting her. Jesus BlindIo, this really is some 1950s church shit! Snap out of it!
It is men like you who created Radical Feminism and the “all sex is rape” philosophy. Man-hating feminism is simply making political and public what tradcon fathers tell their daughters in private – that all sex is evil and if any man touches her, the father will protect her daughter’s virginity with a shotgun, no different than how he would respond to an actual rape. Mentally ill feminists see that and conclude that all sex is rape and “harmful to women!”
Thanks dude! Thanks a lot! You know, I can make that plane ticket to Saudi Arabia happen for you! Picture your own personal heaven come to life! What do you say?
I care about society also, but I certainly don’t advocate the puritanical and sex-hating hell that you tradcons want to bring us back to. Fuck your cult of virginity. We’re not interested.
And yes, we WILL fuck your innocent virgin daughter and even have threesomes with her when she come of age.
And no, you won’t take your shotgun and shoot us. Just drop that fantasy now. Teenagers will fuck your daughter in high school while getting cheered on by me! We will fuck your daughter in college! We will persuade your daughter to take it up the ass, and you, “Mr. Tradcon with a Shot Gun,” will do exactly nothing about it! Just get over it and embrace the new world of sexual liberation. You might even see how happy your daughter will be, thanks to men like me and BD tag teaming her!
Holy. Fucking. Shit!
So…….you want women to be your prisoners? Victims of your kidnapping? Unable to work, thus turning them into gold diggers, and therefore, forcing them to suppress their sex drives while being chained to the stove?
So you want “those women in the kitchen, barefoot, and pregnant?”
Dude, snap out of this Disney crap! Cinderella is cheating on her Prince Charming with his sister and me! The two women like to use the glass slipper as a dildo!
It’s called the red pill man! Take it, and drop this Walt Disney fairytale shit!
I think poly women are doing very well. They have stable families, and many of them own their own businesses and have more money than you!
Note: Guys like BlindIo are the reason why I was forced to completely turn my back on the entire Men’s Rights Movement with much sorrow and weeping! They became nothing but a bunch of Disney tradcons, longing for that blue pill fantasy of being the Prince Charming to some obedient virgin housewife who can only say “yes master.” The MRM and the Alt Right are as blue pill as they come and if they are allowed any influence they will turn this country into the equivalent of a Muslim or Christian theocracy, based on sex-hating and female “purity.” All sexually enlightened people should actively fight against the MRM and the Alt Right. I did not come to this decision lightly. I used to be an MRA. But now, they’ve switched from a hatred of man-hating feminism to simply a hatred of female sexuality, and that no sexually liberated man can condone. Truth hurts!
@Brick:
What did you have against the poly one? Just because she fucks other dudes doesn’t mean that her husband doesn’t fuck other women. You can’t assume he’s some kind of cuckold.
And what did you have against her exactly? As a fuck buddy only, what do you care if she has kids?
Because they have no reason to be fed up.
Aside from the BPD headcase, what made those women “lemons?” And what do you mean by “investing?” Are you talking about monogamy?
What do you want women to offer that they are not offering now?
The terms “punching up” and “punching down” are politically correct garbage terms used only by SJW losers. Just so you know. We can intellectually “punch” anyone we want – down, up, horizontally, etc… Your PC is showing.
What precisely are you dissatisfied with?
What do you mean by “landing and keeping a desirable mate?” Are you talking about tradcon monogamy? That doesn’t work anyway. But you can certainly land and keep an OLTR. Why not? I’m glad it’s not the same. Who the fuck wants a monogamous prude anyway?
Good! Fuck those prudes! I wish all the “girl next door” types would just disappear. What exactly do you want from them that you can’t get from more liberated women?
Programmed for what? Liking sex? What’s wrong with that?
You should do youtube videos or politics Jack. This is the best, most hilarious stuff I’ve read on any comment thread.
But do you still plan on doing activism against heterophobia and the like, as you once said you were considering to do (something about a temporary retirement in 2017 I think) ? Granted, I’m more on BD’s side about how society did it to itself and can’t be saved, but I’d definitely follow something like this.
@ Jack Outside the Box
I’m looking for traditional monogamy, not necessarily a “1950’s style” one, but definitely not just a household of worker drones passing each other on the way to day care/office/school/mall. I’ve been in a Deep Blue city for 20 years and have experienced all the wild stuff: 3 ways, swinging/open relationships, long stretches of NSA hookups, etc.
All that stuff is fun when you’re young but the creeping cancer of internet feminism has made it very difficult to check out of pure hedonism and find a (semi) old fashioned woman.
The terms “punching up” and “punching down” are politically correct garbage terms used only by SJW losers. Just so you know. We can intellectually “punch” anyone we want – down, up, horizontally, etc… Your PC is showing.
I don’t think it’s PC to restrain from bashing on people who aren’t good at dating. Do you slap the drinks out of the hands of weaker dudes just for laughs? Bullying weaker people is pathetic and engaging stronger people without an objective or purpose is childish stupidity.
Good! Fuck those prudes! I wish all the “girl next door” types would just disappear. What exactly do you want from them that you can’t get from more liberated women?
Hardcore feminists are often uptight in bed, and see anything “normal” as oppressive. If you have to navigate a bunch of sex, food, and philosophical issues just to have a good time it really isn’t worth the trouble. I would say that you seem to be the PC one here. There isn’t much incentive to marry a woman who refuses to cook (I enjoy cooking, but c’mon) and parrots everything written by Sheryl Sandberg or Lena Dunham. Perhaps the feminists you date are different, but comparing notes with my friends who bed lots of them here in Bluetopia, the issues are often the same.
I don’t do the poly scene, man, and I don’t date single moms. The moms have too little time/energy left, or if they can spare the time, then the kid(s) are around; and considering how most relationships end, why would I want to be another ghost in that kid’s memories? No thanks.
It’s probably hard to believe, but I used to be very into critical theory and all the commie liberal stuff, but it’s only works if there’s a bedrock of traditionalism for the less intellectual/less rebellious people to make their families and build communities. Rootless cosmopolitanism is a dead end, and unfortunately, the media/internet has sold it to everyone for decades and we’re seeing the end result in real time. It was much better to have the option of going traditional after finishing your wild years in the city.
True and irrelevant. You can still do it as long as you do it under an OLTR model. And that has nothing to do with you getting laid or making a decent amount of money for you.
Yes, it’s available. It’s simply your choice as to whether or not to put in the work. No one and nothing is stopping you.
Again, you guys keep implying that there is someone pointing a gun at your head forcing you to not put in the work to make a better life. No, dude. You’re just being lazy and want to be unhappy. Admit it. This isn’t North Korea. No one is forcing you to live the way you life.
Then join my membership program. It’s all there. Plus I have more products / seminars in the works.
I just wonder if you find that you are actually wrong,,, about anything!!??
I guess we all cant be as gifted,,talented,, superior, and eternally superior to all other “men”.,,, that all woman would seem to grovel at there feet for the sheer thought of being their sex slave.
Yes, I’ve been wrong about all kinds of things and I have lots of flaws.
Here’s a post about all the things I did wrong when I was younger.
Here’s a post about many of the screw ups I’ve made with women.
In several chapters of my book I describe, in excruciating detail, many ways in which I did all kinds of wrong, stupid things and screwed up my life.
I’m also an overweight fuck and have still not been able to nail that problem.
Shall I go on?
You don’t have to be perfect. You can be wrong and flawed as hell. You just have to want to be happy and put in a little effort to get it without making a bunch of bullshit excuses about how you “can’t.”
For real, the saddest part of the whole equation is the delusional dad.
I recently had the displeasure of receiving an unsolicited phone call from one such angry father, who proceeded to berate me about my relationship with his daughter (she’s 18, I’m in my 40s). It was hard not to laugh. How do I tell this guy that his innocent little angel is constantly begging me for sex? If I had showed him our text logs, he would have had an aneurysm.
I talked to her about it afterwards, and she said something really surprising. He wasn’t mad at her, and didn’t discipline her, but instead asked “Why do you feel like you need Donnie in your life? Am I not a good enough father?”.
With that, I understand now that the true problem for him isn’t that I’m having sex with her, but rather the fact that I might be closer to her than he is.
@Brick:
Oh boy! Then you’re fucked! Well, at least you’re being honest.
I’m in a poly relationship and it is definitely nothing like you just described.
You’re right and this is something we should all thank feminism for. Unless of course, you’re like you – someone looking to lead the tradcon lifestyle. Then yeah, you’re fucked.
From my point of view, feminism is a cancer, but not for this reason. Anything which hurts, or makes more difficult, the tradcon lifestyle, I support.
The bashing is intended to help them! Pain is a necessary precondition for change.
No. That would be both assault and destruction of private property.
I’m talking about constructive criticism with a desire to get them to change their ways. You criticized us calling them what they are – losers – and, like an SJW, accused us of “punching down.” Dude, I’m not talking about directionless bullying just for the fun of it. I’m talking about the righteous condemnation of loserhood and motivating them to get off their asses!
Who said anything about feminists, hardcore or otherwise? I’m talking about sex-positive and sexually enlightened women. Some call themselves “sex-positive feminists” whereas others do not, but nowhere did I say anything about “hardcore feminists.” Those tend to be the biggest and most sex-negative prudes. Fuck them!
I’m certainly not advocating any of that to have a good time. I think you’re conflating my fondness for sexually liberated women with feminism. That conflation is false and the accusation that I’m PC is certainly false.
Period!
You shouldn’t make your stomach dependent on a woman. Ever. Allowing a woman to manipulate you with food just because you’re too lazy to cook for yourself is beta. Being dependent on a woman for anything gender neutral – such as picking up your damn socks – is beta! You need to do all these things yourself in order to be an independent man! You must not allow a woman to have any leverage over you that will lead to manipulation, bitchiness, and her controlling your life via lifestyle blackmail.
Cook for yourself dude! Take care of yourself! Stop relying on women to do shit for you! It’s pathetic, and it gives them incredible power and leverage over your life!
Huh? Once again, you’re conflating sex-positivism and sexual liberation with man-hating sex-negative feminism and women who are fat and disgusting.
I don’t date feminists. I’m not stupid.
That’s a shame.
I wasn’t really talking about dating them. Just fucking them, while minimizing any and all contact with the kids.
Okay. I too don’t want to be in the life of children who might become “emotionally attached to me,” which might trigger a child support order from family court even if they are not biologically mine. Point taken. Still, keeping these women at the fuck buddy level is definitely worth it.
Then I’m glad you got out of that garbage!
It’s not either/or. You don’t have to be a tradcon in order to avoid PC SJWism and communist nonsense.
Not sure what you mean by “rootless,” but as I said to BlindIo, families come in all shapes and sizes, including poly families. Just because you’re a sexually liberated person doesn’t mean you must have no roots.
Better for whom? In the poly community, I don’t see anyone being “worse.” In fact, the children are actually happier and better when their parents are in an open relationship than if they are in traditionalist/monogamous hell and cheating because monogamy doesn’t work.
Rich people and politicians have had secretly open marriages since forever, thus forcing them to fake outrage when one spouse is caught “cheating” by the public due to being less than discrete. These people have stable families, even if they may fuck other people on the side for the purposes of social lubrication and making political alliances!
The problem is that average people aren’t taught these values and instead believe in the false dichotomy of “traditional monogamous” or “casual promiscuous/chaotic.”
There’s a third better way!
“Yes, it’s available. It’s simply your choice as to whether or not to put in the work. No one and nothing is stopping you.”
That sounds great, but would you know how it feels? The motivational system is not entirely under our control as plenty of addicted people can attest. Or many “monogamous” people can attest hehe. Still, it’s great encouragement and I like to believe it.
“Again, you guys keep implying that there is someone pointing a gun at your head forcing you to not put in the work to make a better life. No, dude. You’re just being lazy and want to be unhappy. Admit it.”
Unhappy? Not at all, that is my whole point. That ‘better life’ and the road to it have certain benefits and certain costs, and I’m not sure they are worth it like most people implicitly assume. As far as nothing stopping you, I agree, if you really wish to change (accept whatever effort for it) and are healthy and free, you CAN do great things.
“Then join my membership program. It’s all there. Plus I have more products / seminars in the works.”
It is an option I have considered in the past and will strongly consider in the future if I decide to buckle down and start being productive. I wish I could find the argument to convince me that is the best road to take, when it feels so good to give society the finger and do whatever the hell you want with your time.
Your assumption that you can not feel happy or free without money has not been true in my experience. I don’t feel free without time, but I feel little need for lots of money. That may change as I get older and I assume at that point the motivation to change won’t be that hard to find.
Everywhere I see HOW to have success (a life of eternal challenge (that is to say, discomfort) – thanks Julien, but.. :/) and nowhere whether it is actually worth it, which leads me to believe my problem is not a common one.
If they hooked a happiness meter to you and followed you around for 2 weeks, then hooked a happiness meter to me and did the same, I’d be far happier than you, and I think you know this.
If you want to settle for a 5 or 6 happiness for the rest of your life, that’s fine (as long as you don’t bitch about it). Go right ahead. It’s your life. I’ll be over here at a 8 or 9.
“If they hooked a happiness meter to you and followed you around for 2 weeks, then hooked a happiness meter to me and did the same, I’d be far happier than you, and I think you know this.”
I don’t believe you’re as happy as you claim all the time. 8 or 9 where 10 is full of massive, intoxicating joy all the time? Don’t think that’s even possible, because of how the emotional system has the tendency to flatten out your response to the same stimulus. You would have to find all the time new experiences that blow you away. Where’s the 8 when you yearn for that bagel? When you have to end the hour of video game time (wtf can you do in an hour of civ 5 anyway :/)? When your kid has a problem that you HAVE TO solve? When a client calls and you have to answer? When you ‘choose’ to work work work, even on vacation? When you have bedtime? When you have to jump on that bicycle in the morning, for the rest of your life? When you get LSNFTEed by someone you care about?
I would LOVE a test like that 🙂 The result of my happiness meter may surprise you. Listen, I don’t yearn for shit as you seem to have done when you couldn’t afford stuff. I don’t get that. What I can’t afford doesn’t even fall into my consciousness – I don’t even consider the option of having it. It’s just not a thought process, at any level. I don’t have problems, I’m surprised people still do. When I hear you say “I’ll be over here being happy” that matches EXACTLY my experience. I don’t care for much shit as long as I have my freedom to do as I please. I don’t give a shit about politics as long as war doesn’t come my way. I don’t give a shit about women being slutty as long as I get my pussy. I don’t give a shit about making a difference in the world, or taking care of my genes. I care about the species a little less than it cares about me (thanks Kate).
When out on a sunny day, just walking the city and I see men with families, men with jobs, dads pushing carts around I am BEAMING! I shit you not. A lot of the time when I walk outside I have this stupid smile on my face seeing other people walking around with shit they have to do. I feel like the world is my oyster, when I choose to go out. Surprisingly, pussy has not been in short supply either. On the contrary I have recently had the most beautiful woman of my life (after 6 months I was glad she stopped pulling me from video games, and I still managed to spend less on her than she did on me :D). I don’t get guys living this lifestyle and sitting around mopey or apathetic. I still feel like I don’t have enough time to enjoy this beautiful life. The only thing that really bothers me is that life will end someday, and I’m working on it. At the beginning of the year I had the bright idea of going to a depression forum hoping to find out how the hell aren’t they happy, when I am so profoundly without having much of what society deems necessary for it. The mods censored me very quickly and basically explained to me that those people don’t need solutions, just a sympathetic ear.
I do not envy you Blackdragon. I would take your cash, but not your life. In your situation I would quickly pool all my money and give everyone the finger, probably move to some third world country and fuck hookers (assuming it’s satisfying, never done it), play video games, play sports and generally do whatever I feel like for the rest of my life, with the relaxed confidence of never having to work again. And if that got boring, I would enjoy something else, learning a new skill, meeting new people, refining my model of the world and playing with it, pretty much what I do right now 🙂
I don’t exclude starting to enjoy making money at some point, it may actually be fun if I find a way that doesn’t demand more of me than I feel like giving. 8 hours a day? FUCK that! That’s a life right there. Even 6 is excessive. 4 maybe I could live with, but on my terms, not indefinitely. Unless it’s something I really enjoy, in which case time isn’t a factor anymore.
As I keep repeating, if you’re truly happy with your life, this article isn’t directed at you, and you can safely ignore everything I’m saying.
I just find it hard to believe you’re as happy as you say you are when you’re constantly pelting me with tiny, defensive nitpicks, but I’ll let the readers decide.
First off, MGTOW is a misnomer – because if you are living your life, based upon what you want – you have in essence, gone your own way.
The basis of the GYOW is first a mindset. If you go your own way, then you are in essence, living a life of your own choosing. The only outcome of that is to be happier in general (or at least someone what content). By GYOW, you choose the criteria of your life, it is not chosen for you.
It also means, because you have actively chosen the path, you will automatically KNOW whatever happens in your life is from your own choices – which provides you with a freedom to make new and different choices, if the path you are currently on does not suit you.
GYOW also means you decide how much or how little money you make; how much or little sex you have; the women you have sex with; the possessions you have; the relationships you maintain; the activities you take part in; the business/profession; etc and so on. At it’s core, it means one thing – It is My Life, I make the decisions about my life, I live by the consequences of those decisions, and I am free to make new decisions.
I say, quit identifying with anyone individual or group, and decide to just “Go Your Own Way” – fuck everything else – it’s ultimately my life, and I choose the freedom to fuck it up anyway I desire.
My son one night wrote three simple rules on my white board for living …
1. Don’t be Stupid
2. No Cops
3. Don’t Die
Most of us break rule number 1 repeatedly – and if you never break rule #1, rule #2 will never be an issue.
Well, I think you deserve many thanks for the stress on fitness in the sense of good health and prospective good health for when we are no more young, really.
As for the:
“I’m having sex with multiple women at all times, without lying to any of them, usually getting from zero to sex in less than three hours and with less than $20 spent grand total. One third of the time it’s zero dollars. I rarely spend any real money on women in FB or MLTR relationships, yet these relationships often last many years.”
On a certainly minor scale, I can do that too. Most women want to show they’d never accept to share a man, and probably tell themselves that too, but they don’t really care in the least.
And somehow, as I am sure you know, that excites them further (“I can lose him, if I don’t do my best” + “He’s really a high value man, if he can do this and has the guts not to conceal it like ordinary men do”).
However, it can’t be helped that they will “fall in love”, if they don’t leave earlier for any other reason.
It’s that “don’t stay in the affection box for too long” thing. After some time they’ll really want “to get serious”, this time for real.
So yes that’s how I relate with women, putting them in a mild affection & good sex box, but when you say you can keep them there for many years I am struck.
High/very high IQ (the $270,000-per-year guy must have a crazy high one) and the will to work. All are explained easily, less for the “moron”. That one really has me puzzled.
It has you puzzled because high IQ has nothing to do with it. It can help, but it’s not the determining factor.
I’ve met way too many financially successful men who were flat out dumb, or at least of average intelligence.
I’ve also met way too many extremely intelligent (high IQ) men, far smarter than me, who were poor as shit or close to it. (coughcollegeprofessorscough)
The second thing you said is closer to the real answer:
Ryan Lochte is a 32 years old, baby boy
I think BD is MGTOW 2.0 (pause so BD can TM that) His Mgtow 2.0 to angry mgtow is as different as alpha 1.0 to alpha 2.0.
OK I know I’m late. But that was motivating.
I definitely got the impression that MGTOW men are men going nowhere. But my understanding of its original philosophy is to walk away from marriage and commitment, to do whatever they want, whether it be having short term romances, concentrate on their careers, hit the gym or anything else positive.
Yet, there is this perception now that MGTOW men are locked away playing online games, ordering pizza delivery, forever getting lazy, sweaty and fat.
But it just isn’t the case on the whole.
I generally do not believe any man who says he is sleeping with multiple women at one time. Even Dan Bilzerian does a lot of pay for play and admits to as much. if women were so crude to just consistently bang a man within three hours of meeting him, god help the poor sucker who catches her on her way down and pops a ring on her finger. But that said, it is all possible with the right game.
As I write this comment, I am travelling Russia and it is a whole different standard here. Even average guys have amazing fashion sense and women respond positively to these men. There is this natural, masculine way they stand and walk that is definitely something to learn from.
But women here will not be so easy and they tend to walk with pride and style. It is something that is difficult to put your finger on. But it is something good.
Before I had heard the term MGTOW, I was probably MGTOW. I owned a party bus business, which became my social life. I would host tours for women celebrating that one special gal who was to be married. One guy on a bus of drunk women. What could go wrong? yet, finding a good connection seemed beyond me because I believe I had been poisoned by what I saw from these women each week. When you see the worst of people, generally speaking, I believe it makes you want to walk the other way and you understand you owe the opposite sex nothing.
But here I am in Siberia and I can clearly see something that is missing in the west. It is the line drawn down the middle of what makes a man a man and a woman a woman. And it is inviting to know that this still exists, whereas the west, too many rules have been broken to ever care about jumping into a commitment to a relationship which would only end on divorce and financial ruin.
That said, let the good times roll. We are all walking slowly to the grave. So have no regrets.
In the end BlackDragon is some type of MGTOW 2.0 (or 3.0) .
It’s a little funny how you call MGTOW men out for making fun of you yet you do the same thing two sentences later. This is the definition of victimhood, victim blaming, ect. You are using manipulation to push a point that isn’t true. That’s why you need manipulation. I have my own business, traveled and lived in several countries, had sex with around 400 women, dated 20-30. I owned 3 Audi’s when I lived in the states and had a house in Arizona. Not sure where your unfounded claims come from. So keep attacking MGTOW men, it just makes you look like an ignorant beta cuck. Which is cool, you’ll be MGTOW in 20 years when you get used like a tampon in a marriage and you’re left with nothing but this website. Suddenly the graphic will change saying “MGTOW Black Dragon”.
That’s reality. MGTOW men are not MGTOW because they hate you or women. They are MGTOW because they are sick of the games women play, using the system to do it. Similar to the way you use manipulation to push a fraudulent point.
Then as I’ve said numerous times in the above comments, you are not the kind of man this article is addressed to, and should pay no attention to it. In this article I’m addressing guys who make no money and/or don’t laid, not you.
You clearly have no idea who I am or what I write about. I’m 100% opposed to traditional monogamous marriage; it’s been one of my fundamental, core messages for a decade now. I am a MGTOW; just a pro-sex MGTOW who thinks money is important.
You really need to do some more reading about someone before you attack them, otherwise you’ll come off looking really stupid.
BD, according to the official definition of “MGTOW,” you are not one and neither is anyone else on this blog. According to MGTOWs, there are 4 levels of MGTOW:
Level I: Casual sex with women only. Just fuck buddies.
Level II: Celibate, but likes having both women and men as platonic friends.
Level III: Celibate and likes being platonic friends with men, but not women. Shuns all women.
Level IV: Celibate and hates platonic friendship. Shuns both women and men. Lives as a hermit.
Credit: Sandman MGTOW
You’re not even Level I. Neither are most men who follow your teachings.
I strongly suggest you don’t associate yourself or your reputation with a bunch of sex-hating, mostly celibate separatists. They have poisoned the label, just like genocidal lesbians have poisoned feminism. We’re not MGTOWs. We have girlfriends and we’re not against living with them and having kids.
GTOW in its purest form wont make men happy in the long run. The problem is that accepting things as they are wont either. Men need to take control and MGTOW as a right of passage for young men might be the answer. A time during their twenties when they focus on self development before looking for the right woman to settle down with. Men nee to reappraise what women are and act accordingly.
https://menfightingback.wordpress.com/
Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number One.