176 Comments on “Why I Stopped Dating Russian Women”

1. totally with you on the russian women. pushy, always scheming. no thanks.

2. Dear BlackDragon:

   I am a big fan of you – and the community which you have built.  I therefore know that you appreciate a rigorous and open dialogue with all inputs.   My experience differs slightly.  Since being divorced several years ago, I have dated perhaps 10 russian women.   I have fucked most of them.  Most of them  on the 2nd date, some on the 1st. They were very hot and they were very sexual.  They are also very opportunistic and highly materialistic.   But I count that up to their culture – and just mirror the superficiality with a smorgasbord of DHV>.  I believe that if you re-calibrate normal format and just escalate on date #1 with Russian women, you will have a better statistical outcome.  It won’t work every time – but more than you might think.  My sample set is Manhattan.

   With thanks and admiration, I contribute to this community.

3. BD

   I live in the UK and there are plenty of Russian and FSU women here. I have also been to Ukraine quite a few times to try and get laid and I am going there for 3 weeks this summer.  So I have dated Russian/FSU women in the West and on their own turf.

   Everything you said it true:

   the negatives:

   moody, can be negative, very materialistic, ask for gifts early on, ASD is sky high,  give off the vibe of them being untrustworthy,  plus everything else you said.

   positives:

   good looks, much more open to dating an older guy compared to British girls.  Age gaps of 10 to 15 years are no big deal at all. (I’m 37)

   so why do I keep on dating them:  I seem to do reasonably well with them and I get plenty of dates with them, much easier than British girls,  and they are hotter.  The only reason why I tolerate their BS is because they are easier for me to meet, (but harder to lay) and much more attractive.  I have never had a relationship last more than a year with them though (so good for short term stuff).  They usually end in disaster when they give drama or turn on the gold digger vibe too much.  I will continue to date them and have them as MLTR, but the idea of getting into a long term relationship with one of them scares me.  I also think if I married one (I’d have to move to Scotland where pre nups are legally binding) the odds of it ending in divorce are much higher than with a British chick.

    

   If it wasnt for their beauty they would possible be some of the worst women in the world but their looks are like a drug.  I would say to any guy –  date them…. try it out,  but proceed with extreme caution and don’t get married to one unless the pre nup is water tight.

    

   I think my 3 weeks trip to Ukraine will be a good test for me.  If the ASD is so high that I get no action, I would be reluctant to go back for a trip there again.

    

   keep up the good work BD

4. Andrew Carlisle

   trying to get sex on date 1 with a Russian girl is usually MUCH more difficult than with a USA/Brit girl,  not sure escalating hard early is good advice,      but seems it has worked for you 🙂

5. Andrew I confirm what BD says. I’ve been with many Russian women(meaning ex USSR countries also) and had a long term mono gf back then(worst period of my life probably aside from the good sex). They are by far the worst in terms of drama. By far. Damn their beauty is irresistible. But fuck that shit. Really, most women normally behave with this system. Not Russian women, they are too confused with their lives. And no there is no difference between being abroad or are in their home country. They are the same. They always bitch about not having the world at their feet everyday. Even if the world is at their feet, they will still bitch about it.

   I was out on a date couple of months back with one and she told me after the 1st date “I see that you are not ready to commit.” with an angry tone. Because I was sexual. They are hilarious.

   BD do you have a story in which a Russian woman stayed with you for a prolonged period?

6. The other thing that REALLY winds me up about Russian/FSU girls  is that they expect the man to pay for EVERYTHING,  and it seems like that is the deal forever.

   so if you got into a long term relationship with one,  you would be paying for 2 people for life !  My hunch is that even if she had a decent job,  she would still expect you to pay for all her shit.

    

   I’ve been on about 30 first dates (plus mltrs and fbs etc) with them,  the amount of times they have offered to pay for anything:   1 out of 30 girls  !

7. I’m Russian and live in Russia. I can say that those women in the stories you described totally sound like Russian women. So much hysteria, demands and drama out of nowhere.

8. From experience of being around some Eastern Europeans, I think I can expound on the source of such darkness.

   It’s usually a combination of some of these things that produces such an attitude:

   One thing is alcoholism: Alcoholism is a very serious problem in many of these countries (especially in Russia) and many die young because of it.  Many eastern Europeans are raised by abusive alcoholics and become abusive alcoholics themselves later in life.

   Second thing is the economy: Many of these countries still feel the after effects of the USSR regime, namely the economy.  The middle class in these countries is not very strong, and most citizens live poorly.  Because of this, many of the women try to find providers to help lift them from their situations.

   Crazy Male SP: I have no idea where this originated from, but the stereotype of the ultra alpha 1.0 male is true in many respects, though I normally see this in younger guys (teens to 30s).  Those who fit the stereotype basically feel insecure, so they overcompensate with bodybuilding, being antagonistic, and constant mate-guarding.  I think this insecurity probably comes from the effects of point 1 and 2.

    

9. I don’t think the economy is a reason. Many other countries have bad economies and their women might be provider hunters, but they are not THAT high drama, bitchy etc. And they certainly don’t show you their intentions in that an open way. Russian women are demanding. Women from other countries with bad economies might be girly girl when going out on dates. They try to “buy” you with their kindness. Russian women don’t do that.

   It’s like “I will be the boss forever buy me shit, come and pick me up, take me to a fancy restaurant” etc.

10. Truer words were never spoken

11. This is true for the majority and these comments apply as well. Just the fact that you have this information and know it gives you power.

    My comments apply to women in FSU:

    You can sift through them like you sift through any other population and…have a lot of fun doing it. It is indeed a cultural flaw. As an old Spanish classmate once said “Latin culture has a flaw and now we have exported this flaw to all of Latin America and now to USA too”. I said “what is it Jose?” He said “all of our women want to be the boss”. I have heckled with my Mexican friends and apparently Its true.

    You can have a lot of fun with them and some of those things are the cost of doing business, so to speak so now you know it upfront. To be butt hurt and mad is probably not best way but they do respect masculinity and firmness so it’s an oppportinity to display that the flip side of that is that they do expect to be taken care of old school style. What’s that you say? You want a women who pays sometimes ? You get mad when they don’t pay ? You don’t like paying for their plane tickets on vacation ? You like it to be more like equal partners ? That’s because you’re from the west and ….you CANNOT have both. There are lots of western women with careers who will be equalish partners with you in so many respects.
    The bitchiness I DO NOT condone as any valid and acceptable part of any culture – really, fuck them if they have an attitude and I really do mean that -fuck them and then leave – that attitude has also been the bane and bad surprise of my search – but the rest is kind of part of you being a leader and a provider in their culture and what you get along with that, provided you find a good one (I can count 2 or 3 I’ve had – all very pretty and tall) is a sweet and pretty submissive old school woman.

    As someone else pointed out hey also will date you if you are like 25years older (like my wife is 25 years younger ). Think that over you 50 yo guys. They will also tolerate you coming on very strong to them.

    It takes work to get through them but….you poor boys who choose this path can have adventures in FSU in the process that will be some of the highlights of your life as you try out and cast aside the bitches.

    Let me add: IT HAS NEVER BEEN MORE AFFORDABLE TO BE AN INTERNATIONAL PLAYBOY!!!!

    AIRBNB (with $25-30/night apts there) , cheap prices , cheap $600-700 plane tiks from USA etc. you have no excuse if you’re an adventurer. Do you have the mental strength to make it through the Russian minute ? Look it up 😉

    everything has its price and it’s comporomises

12. Thanks for the info Black Dragon ! It makes me appreciate the kind , gentle , has her own job , TW ( Taiwan ) woman l am dating now. l am 62. She is 39. So another good point about Asian women is they not care about age of man. l am truly grateful for this eye – opener about these other types of women.
    Thank you ?

13. JJ – Remember Rule Number Four here and do not ever feed trolls on this blog. Last warning.

    I believe that if you re-calibrate normal format and just escalate on date #1 with Russian women, you will have a better statistical outcome.

    1. I’m quite sure if I did that I would have a worse statistical outcome.

    2. Not fucking them fast isn’t necessarily the problem. It’s all the drama and bullshit that comes with the sex.

    BD do you have a story in which a Russian woman stayed with you for a prolonged period?

    Yes. Many years ago I had a pretty important Russian MLTR for a few years. She actually still reads this blog. She was, by far, the most jealous woman I’ve ever had in an MLTR, so there were a few problems, but nothing catastrophic. I think the main reason for this was that she left the Russia as a small child (age 9 or 10 I think) and “grew up” mostly in the West rather than there. She didn’t even have a Russian accent.

    Beyond her I’ve never dated a Russian woman for an extended period unless I’m forgetting about someone.

14. The only positive experiences I’ve had with Russian women has been in non-dating formats such as some sort of social circle interaction leading to sex or straight up nightlife hookups.

    I think the very act of going on a ‘date’ of any kind puts these women in super-provider hunter/bitch mode, no matter how strong of a frame you present. Of course they’ll get there anyway if you actually try to pursue a relationship with them. But from my limited experience one can have a strictly FB relationship with Russian girls if you can get there without ‘dating’, and the sex is amazing enough for her, and her sex drive is high enough.

     

15. P.S. I have often wondered what happened to my super bitches FSU gorlfkrends and I’m gonna say that it is highly unlikely they did marry a Stalin who put them in their place and subdued them like some dictator. I’m gonna speculate that hey almost certainly are the overbearing bosses who their husbands or boyfriends cow tow to. In other words I think that Russian men anrwnt all they are thought to be in terms of masculinity. I think they just marry the bitches and deal with it.

    One of my sweet ex gf casual comments said it best. Her sister was out with is and I asked if she was going to get a taxi – she said “I don’t need taxi- I have husband” with no irony

    Enough said

16. ** I should add that those Russian women all had boyfriends and I was their sex on the side. That probably helped as well.

     

17. I don’t think Polish women are that much different. Fathers tend to be cold and hyper-masculine while at the same time pretty beta with their wives. Its a weird combination. They are the kind of men whose wives are forced to snatch their paychecks away as soon as they get paid, in case they spend it on alcohol; even if they are not alcoholic themselves, it is seen as normal for them to give away control of their money.

    A lot of the hyper-masculinity and possibly high testosterone from the father I think also rubs off on the daughters. Some of them tend to have deeper voices, sturdy bodies, and colder personalities.

    It also seems like their are very obsessed in outdoing their acquaintances by having the bigger house or the shinier cars.

18. Did girl n°4 already know that you weren’t dating her monogamously in the first place ?

19. Did girl n°4 already know that you weren’t dating her monogamously in the first place ?

    What a dumb question. Of course. She was well aware. All women are. This is me you’re talking to.

20. I have dated about 10 women from Russia.  I do not have have the same experience as BD does or others.  I will say some of the traits listed above are present but I just don’t characterize them that way on the whole.  The women BD describes I see in all cultures and actually less in the Russian culture.  Everyone has their own experiences and attracts certain women so to each his own.

    I am not saying the Russian women I was with were problem free.  With the positive comes the negative.  Russian women are very emotional, passionate and can be deep.  Of course if you go always for the hot, modern young lady you will only find materialism.  But on the whole Russian women take love serious.  They are by nature more feminine than the western women and actually western men can be attracted to this because of the superficiality and out of touch with feelings as American women can be.

    Because of my business and traveling I have dated mainly eastern and Russian women but frankly now prefer some good old American Pie.  Unfortunately there is a trade-off.  Russian women have deep feelings and a long history of suffering which can make them somewhat more genuine if they have handled their lives honestly.  Of course with this can come drama and complications because of the many intertwining emotional relationships Russians like to foster with each other.  They are secretive by nature.

    American women tend to be easy to read and direct and simple.  This can be good but also get boring at times.

    Maybe others have had experiences with both American and Russian women and would like to describe the differences?

    Thanks.

21. So many astutely observed points in this article and in the comments – spoken as one whose wife of 11 years is Russian.

    Many Russian women come from broken, dysfunctional homes; divorce rates are sky high among them and paternal absenteeism or paternal vodka abuse common, with kids being raised by their financially emaciated mothers alone. It makes, in my view, a fertile breeding ground for lifelong daddy issues and might also explain the willingness to date older men and the materialism / provider obsession.

    Although I’m from the UK, I now live in Latvia where I see obscene status signalling going on every day, particularly among the nouveau riche Russian males and the proud struts of the posing, catwalk-ready primadonnas on their arms. Russian beauties ARE repulsively materialistic, demanding, entitled, arrogant, whiny, gold-digging, pampered snobs utterly incompatible with the vast majority of western, red pill men. Their relationship culture is alien to ours, undoubtedly.

    As for my own wife, she has a heart of gold but… I’m still wary of that quintessentially Russian darker side that reveals itself for perceived indiscretions that western women wouldn’t even furrow a brow at. So yes, I concur, they are very high maintenance models. Proceed with caution.

22. I have ‘dated’ two Russian women. But in reality, only 1, as the second one never actually put out for our brief 2-3 dates.

    I can’t say I find these ‘stereotypes’ to be true. In fact the first one I dated, was the complete opposite.

    Russia #1. 30 years old. Grew up in Eastern Russia but 100% Russian (unusual I think).

    Had lived in US for about 8 years (so not FOB). Heavy accent. Very shy. Was Software QA analyst. EXTREMELY introverted. She would talk but was quite shy.

    Eventually told me she was divorced about 3-4 years ago or something.

    She was very good-looking though, petite, with one of the most amazing racks I’ve ever seen (reason I put up with a lot of awkward conversations, she wasn’t a talker at all). She paid her half every time on dates.

    We fucked a bunch after 4 dates but had no connection. Ever, really. Other than “me horny” – so she eventually ghosted.

     

    Russian #2. 25 years old, seems far younger than 30. From Moscow area (typical West Russia). Had JUST moved to US 2 months ago (FOB). Fine command of English though. VERY talkative and outgoing and bubbly. Can’t remember if she paid her half of the dates, maybe first one only (she had no job). Had access to a car from a Russian cousin living in the area for years. Foolishly, I got in said car. Turns out, stop signs and traffic lights aren’t common in Russia? Maybe they are, but this girl drove worse than someone with a gallon of vodka in them.

    Eventually made a move on her, and she gave me the LJBF speech (met on Tinder). She still hits me up once in a while to hang out, guess she really does want friends.

    Can’t say either gave me rage filled drama, Russia #1 was like 3 months, Russia #2 was only about 3 dates.

23. So BD, why is it that the manosphere place Eastern European girls on such a high pedestal if they’re as bad as you describe them to be. Every time I read one of their blogs, it’s high praise for Ukrainian and Russian women.

24. To Caleb: Signed up for and paid for the digital version of your book but so far no response or acknowledgment that you’ve received funds. Checked my account and you’ve been paid.
    Can you please let me know when I can expect the book??

25. Gold.

    BD,
    Would you allow translating and publishing parts of your post on a Russian TRP site like redpill_ru.livejournal.com? Our readership would appreciate your opinion greatly. Thanks.
    redpill_ru

26. Dan Hintz – Email me.

    So BD, why is it that the manosphere place Eastern European girls on such a high pedestal if they’re as bad as you describe them to be. Every time I read one of their blogs, it’s high praise for Ukrainian and Russian women.

    1. They’re hotter and skinnier than American girls.

    2. They are perceived, rightly or wrongly, as being more traditional than American girls. This appeals to more right-wing, Alpha 1.0 men.

    Would you allow translating and publishing parts of your post on a Russian TRP site like redpill_ru.livejournal.com? Our readership would appreciate your opinion greatly.

    Yes, but email me first please.

27. What a dumb question

    What a strange reaction. You said it yourself:

    Note that most of these were many years ago, so if you have any critiques on my game or my actions, just remember that.

    So yes, it seemed like a possibility that your EFA weren’t as strong back then and, since your system assumes that no clear verbalization of nonmonogamy is made until The Talk and the girl’s MLTR (or other) status must remain implied till then, perhaps Girl n°4 – whom you said you dated briefly – wasn’t getting the hint (yet). Which of course doesn’t change the fact that she was acting psycho. I said possibility, which is why I asked in the first place. Your reaction to my comment was quite ridiculous.

28. Maybe they are just hungry? (I’m a size 10 american woman ) I say that because I know a few personally here on the west coast. I live in San Francisco and they seem hungry all the time but do not eat a thing and they are looking to find some guy to take care of them for life and use their looks to broker such a deal. A hungry woman is typically  a bitch if you add childless and financially dependent to that I’m guessing that’s like dating a woman who’s in labor.

29. @Blackdragon

    Interesting read, especially the snippets of your FRs. I know your dating model and understand your approach to time management, they inspired me a lot in the past.

    I read the FRs in this blog post with your time efficient lifestyle and dating model in mind. Getting them to Day 1 as quickly as possible, spending an hour on building comfort, making them talk about themselves and displaying clear man-to-woman intent without triggering ASD with a kiss, inviting them over to your place on Day 2 to fuck, all in only 3-4 hours. I get it and it’s a really streamlined approach. What I see in your FRs though is there’s still room to solidify these interactions. Not necessarily to change the 2-day model, but the way it’s executed. I wouldn’t blame it on Russians, although if you’ve been doing exactly the same stuff with other nationalities, it definitely shows cultural differences too. I won’t argue with that. Nevertheless, they’re all just girls, so all I’m going to say still applies.

    I know that when I’m dealing with similar behaviors, I’m not ramping up attraction strong enough. It still happens every now and then, and that’s me dropping the ball. Yes, a weaker game on a bad day can still get you a yes girl (you can even turn it into a numbers game and not progress at all), but I see the difference. It’s me, not them. I like making women chase me, tease them until they get wet and can’t help themselves but jump on me. The same applies to LTRs. It all starts outside the bedroom and there’s no reason it couldn’t be part of any seduction and/or relationship model. You can consciously trigger more attraction switches, even if doing so is not in your introverted nature (my case as well, or rather it used to be). Girls are your most honest feedback loops, their behaviors show which part of their hypergamous nature you’re triggering in the moment.

    I do occasionally game girls online too and when they go out with me, they tell me it was because I made them curious, excited, intrigued and I stood out. I’ve tested it also without a proper picture, so they saw me only when they gave me their number or even not until the meeting. I admit, the response rate is low, I wouldn’t recommend it as an efficient model, but I like experimenting and forcing myself to work on my sticking points without various crutches. It plays a role that I’m ugly as fuck, too. Just kdding… Or not…

    Anyway, I suggest making Day 1 work better for you (and for free) in terms of triggering the main attractions switches. Old school Mystery covered them pretty well and it applies regardless of your model. This is how you DHV more, especially if the triggering personality traits (dynamic, passionate, authentic) are part of your life (they are in BD’s case) as opposed to faking them most of the time. For example, I love involving other people and making them react to me in front of my girls, so my meetings are built around that and I improvise with it a lot in new environments. Spike their emotions, make them react to you, show them that you have power to do this.

    Damn, you can start already in your online dating profile, the way you open them, talk to them and pitch the meet. BD kind of does it, by DHV-ing with the congruent pics and description, then emoting with girls, showing social awareness, qualifying them and letting them win him over to go on a date. This can be tweaked further to make them show up all excited and not thinking about treating you as a taxi service and perfume provider. If they’re not thinking they’re on an adventure with a lover… Well, it’s you, not them. You can try to turn it around face to face and this is another learning opportunity to emotionally spike it more, but the snippet FRs didn’t have it. It seemed a bit too passive. I assume it was in BD’s early days.

    BD, maybe your game is tighter nowadays, but I suspect that you’re still a lazy fucker working hard to build a path of least resistance, get sex that at least drains your balls and move on to your other exciting ventures and money. Cool, just thought I’d let you and others know some little tweaks can change the landscape quite a bit. Returning a favor for opening my eyes to open relationships and their different models.

    Good luck, have fun and take my money, sugartits!

30. Interesting post.  It seems that you diverge from Rollo Tomassi about AWALT.  (All women have the same sexual wiring.)  If you diverge, could you explain why?  And if you don’t, could you explain how Russian women are somehow different, but this doesn’t disconfirm AWALT?

     

     

31. Wow BD,

    i am shocked, SHOCKED…..that it took you so long to catch on to the crazy!

    As a Russian born American this made for very interesting reading.  I’m very happy to read a rational discussion that confirms my unorganized feelings on the matter.  As many posters have stated there is no doubt a heavy cultural component to this set of behaviors, though personally I really do wonder if genetics play no small part as well.  But the important part is: i’ve never met a russian chick that hasn’t turned out to be batshit crazy in the long term.

    “What do you think?” she asked, nodding her head at the perfume.

    “What do I think about what?” I said.

    “It’s my birthday next week,” she said, again nodding at the perfume.

    “Great,” I said.

    I admire your frame, but this conversation made me shudder.  I can picture exactly the look that would’ve come into her eyes.  Always reminded me of a mountain lion.  Flat and lifeless.

    I have Russian friends and co-workers, and I have nothing against Russians personally, but the Russian people have a darkness within them that other races lack; a darkness that manifests all too often.

    It saddens me to say it, but my personal experience very much confirms this.  I never understood the male dating communities’ obsession with the russian chicks.  Granted they’re hot, but no free lunch and all that.  I have to figure they want the drama.  My brother just seems to eat that shit up.  I guess the makeup sex must be great?

     

32. The gold-digging behavior is understandable… They come from a place of certain dysfunction, are are usually prettier than Western women, which they realize when they come to the West..

    But the drama and neurosis are rather surprising, given that these women seem to be smarter than Western Women at other times.

    Yes, they will figure out how to rip off all but the most savvy men.   Make him pay for everything, etc..

33. Interesting article. Your experiences with these women are just crazy! No wonder you stopped dating them. I don’t do drama either, and there is no way that I would have continued to date people who acted like that.
    My family is from a Eastern European country that was one of the Soviet satellite countries. I remember as I grew up hearing my older immigrant relatives talking about their experiences with Russians back in Europe and they described the Russians as crazy, angry, and violent. As an adult, I met and befriended some Russians and they were not like that at all. It is just interesting that my family’s experiences in Europe were very much like your description.

34. BD, maybe your game is tighter nowadays, but I suspect that you’re still a lazy fucker working hard to build a path of least resistance, get sex that at least drains your balls and move on to your other exciting ventures and money. Cool, just thought I’d let you and others know some little tweaks can change the landscape quite a bit.

    You already pointed out my answer, when you said this:

    if you’ve been doing exactly the same stuff with other nationalities, it definitely shows cultural differences too. I won’t argue with that.

    That. The “way I do it” has been extensively field tested with every major race of women in the universe, and Russian woman are literally the only women I have these problems with. This clearly tells me that the problem isn’t with what I’m doing, but with them.

    Could I re-calibrate my entire dating system and approach to do better with this one race of women while hot women of all other races are smooth and easy? Perhaps, but why bother?

    It seems that you diverge from Rollo Tomassi about AWALT.  (All women have the same sexual wiring.)  If you diverge, could you explain why?  And if you don’t, could you explain how Russian women are somehow different, but this doesn’t disconfirm AWALT?

    I have never completely understood what guys mean when they say AWALT, since it seems different men define this term differently. If your definition is that all women have the same sexual sexual wiring, that is correct, they do. That doesn’t mean different types of women won’t behave differently in dating situations.

    For example, the 26 year-old woman and the 39 year-old women have the same sexual wiring. However, if the 26 year-old wants to fuck me on the second date, she probably will. If the 39 year-old wants to fuck me on the second date, she probably won’t. Not because she doesn’t want to. She does! But because of her heightened ASD as an over-33 women.

    It’s not that these Russian women weren’t attracted to me. Most of them were (perhaps all of them were), and you can see that I was sexual with many of them. As some of the other commenters have mentioned, I probably could have fucked the ones I didn’t if I had been more tolerant of their drama. So they have the same sexual wiring all women have, they just engage in different behaviors because of differences in Societal Programming, namely culture and upbringing.

35. I have never completely understood what guys mean when they say AWALT

    I’ve always used it as a method of determining expectations for chicks. I may expect chicks to pretty much use every dude they come across, but it doesn’t mean that I dislike them for it. So to me its a defense mechanism.

    AMALT (All Men Are Like That) is a similar method that chicks have been taught as well, to prevent sexual assault etc.

36. <i>The next day, I texted her and hit her up for a third meet. She then sent me a long, angry tirade about how I am a “very rude man” and how I “don’t know how to treat women”</i> 

    I had the same experience with a 38 y/o Chinese woman (I only went out with her because she was still pretty with a nice rack).  We met online and then met in person at the park.  She was ok with that.  On the date itself, she did not mention anything about me not inviting her to a place where I would buy her something.

    But two days later when I texted her again, it was much like the above.  A whole ton of ‘You are not a classy guy for not buying me dinner on our first date’.  Stupid moocher..

37. Hiya BD,
    Agree with you on Russian girls, but can’t say I agree about FSU. Never had any problems with Ukraine + Belarus.

    I’d also assume maybe they behave differently in Western vs. Eastern countries. The ones I dated were in Czech.

    Cheers,

    SB

38. I have dates a LOT of women, and among them were some Russians, mostly ones that I met online. They did not impress. I live in Western Europe, and there are a lot of Russian girls who come as au pairs and go out five times a week, flirt with any guy and sleep with many of them in the hopes of finding one who will help her stay. They are treated like shit at home by alcoholic men, so they become cynical and see relationships as giving up sex and service in exchange for money, since that’s all they can get from it. By the way, beating a wife is legal in Ukraine and they do it often – wouldn’t surprise me if it was legal in Russia too.

    I do not get why American men say that Russian women are “gorgeous”. Must be because obesity levels are skyrocketing in the U.S., and Russian women (like everyone else) are slimmer. And also a lot easier than, say, West European women, because the Russians are poor and willing to hold their noses. The Manosphere consists mainly of American men who can’t get an American girlfriend, so obviously they will idolize foreigners. But not West European women since they don’t come from poor countries and therefore don’t need American men, 75 percent of which are now fat. Look at any Russian dating site – the women are mostly ugly. They have those wrinkles on both sides of their beaks that make it look like they are perpetually sneering. As they get older they quickly look like lizards. No, there is nothing special about their looks, and the most goodlooking women are Germanic women – from Germany, Austria, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland. Not from Britain, even though they are Germanics too, but mixed with the original population. Of course, you can’t say that Germanic women are more attractive since you can’t get them, and the American ones are fat like the rest of the population.

    “But Russian models! They’re so hot!” Because it’s a poor country, where 60+% of women say they can only advance in a company by having sex with the boss, they look for any way out. So, Russian women will rush at the chance to slut it up in the model industry. (And as prostitutes in Western Europe, though they are far outdone by the criminals from Romania and Bulgaria.) With a population of 300 million of course there will be some attractive ones, and they will flock to modeling jobs.

    Russian girls I dated:

    1. Girl who was thrown out from her home by her parents – they rented a studio for her though. She was obsessed with her former boyfriend, who from her stories seemed like a sleazy, jobless guy. (She thought I should get tattoos and let my beard grow.) We met a few times and she always refused to go to my place, clearly thinking that I would pressure her for sex, and saying no with those flat, cynical lifeless eyes. She kept talking about her ex – this was before I wisened up, or I would have ditched her right away. She told me once that she “saw dicks all over the place” after a dream about him. She was annoyed that I didn’t have a driver’s license. (I was a student.) Finally she found an excuse to yell at me over the phone in order to make breaking off contact seem like my fault. During that conversation I also gathered that she had met a new guy.

    2. Girl who I met online with a stream of arrogant questions off the bat. She added a snyde, “Don’t worry, you had a good opening line so you’re doing better than some other guys” in the middle of it all, as if I should say thanks for the compliment like a puppy. I didn’t try to please her as she wanted and after a short while just stopped replying. Surprisingly she wrote again two days later. We went on a date where she told me that she didn’t like seeing her relatives and she didn’t like being out in nature. (Major red flags – never heard a girl say that before or after.) I only made this a coffee date to save money as I knew I’d never see her again.

    3. Woman who broke out in nervous-sounding giggle over and over. Must be a condition she couldn’t control. Probably from her mother drinking alcohol during pregnancy, it leads to brain damage and uncontrollable behavior. Aside from that she wasn’t too bad, but I only saw her twice.

    4. Woman who, it turned out, only wanted me to contribute to her commercial website. She looked good and was using her looks, obviously. And she had children she hadn’t told me about. With a much older American man who she was married to. She said “I’m sorry if you thought this was a date,” even though we met on a DATING site. During all this her husband called and she answered, saying that she was shopping downtown, and that “A nice man is keeping me company. A very nice man.” All but telling her beta husband that she was on a date.

    5. Girl who I slept with in a hotel. We had met online and set up a date for when I would be in her city a month later. But after dinner, when we went up to the hotel room, she said she felt it was “too early” to have sex after all. (Why then come up to the hotel room?) So I said okay, and fell asleep. Then she woke me up during the night for sex. Not particularly good but decent. Spent some time together the next day too. She was okay to hang out with, really. Didn’t hear from her after that, except an email much later, where she wrote that she “was trying to figure out” if she wanted to see me again. Obviously a way to make me jump through hoops. I said sure, we could do that, to which she replied “I think it will have to remain just a dream for me though.” Weird.

    I should add that I met a girl from Ukraine who I didn’t date, but who sure seemed like a nice girl. So not all ex-USSR women are the same. But too many. Met another girl from Estonia who came to the West to join a communist party. The vast majority of Poles etc who move to Western Europe vote for mass-immigration, leftist parties to keep the door open for more of their people, and keep the EU’s flow of stolen Western money flowing to their countries.

    And then you have the half-Poles who grew up in the West, and without fail it’s the mother who is Polish – married some loser who couldn’t get a real wife, and instead got a Polish woman willing to prostitute herself to move to the West. Especially common during Soviet times. These half-Poles know that everyone knows what kind of “marriage” they are spawned from, and you can imagine what that does to their attitude. “Think they’re better than me, huh? I’ll show them.” More vote cattle for the leftist plans. As if getting Eastern Europe’s pollution for decades wasn’t enough. Fun fact – they built their filter-less industrial chimneys extra tall so the smoke would blow somewhere else, preferably to the West, and their toxic waste killed off the Baltic Sea. Lovely people.

39. My experiences are very different. I’ve dated 20+ and had sex with 5+ former Soviet Union country girls, living there for half a year. Girls ranging from 18 – 24 years old. Very pleasant and beautiful women. It is a different culture of course, including less casual sex than in Central Europe for example – but my average sex date was the 2nd , maximum paid was $5 for drinks , some girls even insisted on paying their share. Never got big drama from any of them. Maybe it is because I am 21 myself, and it’s obvious from the get go I won’t be her provider.

40. BD, bravo for an awesome post! As a man who has swam in the FSU pool for years and who’s gf is from an FSU country, I laughed through your post. All so true. Russian women are absolutely the most beautiful and utterly charming women on earth. I admit I am defenseless. They are also the most difficult women on earth. My gf is young, stunningly beautiful, intelligent, educated and overall incredibly pleasant and loving woman. She is also one of the rare exceptions. But even with a rare exception, that dark Russian side does emerge, usually at unexpected times. As the saying goes, there are three things a Russian woman can make from nothing; a meal, a party and an argument. All I can say is, unless you are an Alpha 1.0 with rock solid masculine frame, you will be eaten alive. Any small crack in your armor, even the sweetest Russian girl will exploit. You can show zero weakness of any kind.

    For the best insight on Russian women, this article by a Russian-American woman on why she loves and hates Russian men. It requires a bit of “reverse engineering”, but it contains a mountain of insight into how Russian women think and feel, even those who’ve spent a very long time in the US. It begins with her, a typical lefty feminist, holding a bloody shirt as her Russian bf battles it out with another guy in a bar fight in Russia. And how much it turned her on. Great reading.

    http://www.salon.com/2013/08/12/i_love_and_hate_dating_russian_men/

    Keep up the good work, BD, and leave the devushka’s to us! ?

41. Never had any problems with Ukraine + Belarus.

    Girl 5 was from Ukraine. Girl 4 was from Belarus.

    I do not get why American men say that Russian women are “gorgeous”. Must be because obesity levels are skyrocketing in the U.S., and Russian women (like everyone else) are slimmer. And also a lot easier than, say, West European women, because the Russians are poor and willing to hold their noses.

    That pretty much is why, yes.

    Also, Russian women have bigger tits/asses than European women, which us Americans tend to like.

    The Manosphere consists mainly of American men who can’t get an American girlfriend, so obviously they will idolize foreigners.

    Yep, accurate (unfortunately).

42. I’m reading all the comments and have a weird feeling, because for me it is exactly opposite. About myself: born and raised in Eastern Europe, immigrated to USA in 2003 with my wife and $50 in my pocket. I lived in USA with my wife, then with a couple of gf I invited from Eastern Europe (not Russian though) and after I broke with my last one I decided to join my friend and go to Ukraine for a little vacation. That was awesome, I figured I lived half of my life in vain 🙂 Ukraine has tons and tons of beautiful women and shortage of man. Now that they have war on the east border it got even worse for Ukrainian women, but not for me. Being raised in Eastern Europe I think I have way too high requirements for women looks, and I never ever dated American or Spanish women in USA, probably because the ones I consider beautiful were out of my league.

    First time I flew to Ukraine in 2015 I had 34 women in my Viber “favorites” from the dating sites. I fucked 4 of them during my 1 week stay, others ghosted out or I ghosted them out, because I didn’t have energy or  time to take care of 4 of them already, if you know what I mean 🙂

    My work is online and location independent and I have moved to Ukraine to live permanently, and I can say I’m sorry only that I didn’t move sooner. Even though I’m not Ukrainian myself I was raised in a country that has similar mentality and I do speak Russian, that definitely helps to deal with Ukrainian women.

    I agree Ukrainian women are materialistic, but it does not bother me with my 150k income. When my OLTR moved in with me in Kiev, I told her we have only 2 rules in the house:

    1. We have sex whenever I want

    2. You don’t fuck my brain

    Seems to be working very well so far 🙂

43. I committed the cardinal offense of mentioning this article to my Russian wife and she commented as follows.

    The western concept of dating is not exactly matched in Russian culture; rather, Russian women are largely marriage-orientated and tend to be intent on a long-term relationship from the beginning. Indeed, as I recall in our own case, she considered our early relationship as a de facto engagement.

    Accordingly, she (and the rest of them, presumably) think a man should demonstrate tokens of his suitability as a long-term mate as early in the process as possible. That is to say, they expect impressive gifts and displays of concerned provision – and nurturing care – at the outset. That might also extend to presents for her stone-faced mama, that towering monolith casting a long, dark shadow across her  personality’s hinterland.

    In the West, however, we naturally interpret such requirements as gold-digging / materialism, or even outright neurosis. So we see red flags and run a mile, which is – despite my experience married to a Russian wife – my abiding inclination at the thought of hooking up with a Russian woman ever again. And I stand by my previous comments on daddy issues, proud looks, and so on.

    Overall, there appears to me to be more to dissuade a Western man from marrying a Russian woman than there is to commend it, at least in generic, abstract, non-particular-example terms. It’s a cultural gulf that will put your patience through the mill.

44. Oh. Please stop giving “Dating Advice” when you have dated “westernized” women from what ever country!

45. The western concept of dating is not exactly matched in Russian culture; rather, Russian women are largely marriage-orientated and tend to be intent on a long-term relationship from the beginning. Indeed, as I recall in our own case, she considered our early relationship as a de facto engagement.

    Problem number one.

    Accordingly, she (and the rest of them, presumably) think a man should demonstrate tokens of his suitability as a long-term mate as early in the process as possible. That is to say, they expect impressive gifts and displays of concerned provision – and nurturing care – at the outset.

    Problem number two.

    In the West, however, we naturally interpret such requirements as gold-digging / materialism, or even outright neurosis.

    Not to mention a waste of time, a set of grossly unrealistic expectations, and overly needy behavior.

    Please stop giving “Dating Advice” when you have dated “westernized” women from what ever country!

    Okay!

46. The western concept of dating is not exactly matched in Russian culture; rather, Russian women are largely marriage-orientated and tend to be intent on a long-term relationship from the beginning. Indeed, as I recall in our own case, she considered our early relationship as a de facto engagement.

    Bull.  If that were really the case, the suitor would be dealing with her father from the beginning, and the ‘courtship’ phase would last mere weeks, with the woman marrying as a virgin at age 19-22.

    An open-ended, nebulous demand that the man pay $150 for some crap on the first date is classic gold-digger behavior.  I will bet real money that this woman will end up an old maid.

    Accordingly, she (and the rest of them, presumably) think a man should demonstrate tokens of his suitability as a long-term mate as early in the process as possible. That is to say, they expect impressive gifts and displays of concerned provision – and nurturing care – at the outset.

    More gold-digger dishonesty.  Again, if the woman really is traditional and serious about an old-fashioned marriage, then her father should be the one communicating with the man early in the process as well, so that he can approve of the man seeking his daughter’s hand in marriage, which is how truly traditional cultures handle the marriages of young women.  There is no culture in the world where traditional marriage entered into in good faith by the woman requires large gifts by the man on the first date.

    Sorry, but Lapochka’s Russian wife’s answers merely strengthen the patterns that Blackdragon has exposed.

     

47. In fairness, though, many if not most Russian fathers are not there to be negotiated with. My own father-in-law is the most deplorable, worthless, aggressive, self-pitying, responsibilities-absconding excuse for a man I have ever encountered. He divorced my wife’s mother while my wife was still a little child, abandoning them for most of their childhood while he went to Canada to build a new life for himself. Now he lives in Germany with a new wife and a new daughter, but hasn’t so much as once wished our kids – his grandchildren – a happy birthday. Russian men, in my experience, are among the lowest scum of all the bottom feeders on the planet.

48. I wouldn’t argue with BD’s basic points about Russian women. From my (fairly limited) experience with Russians (including at least one from the Ukraine) I’d say that they’re definitely “high maintenance” and demanding in what I would classify as unreasonable (and also illogical, frankly irritating) ways. Unfortunately they’re also (again in my experience) great in bed. I’ve been with only three of them with any frequency, and one I saw pretty regularly (most weeks) for about six months. However, I have to say that the drama, and ultimately the unpleasantness, got too much for me, despite the good sex. A lesson learned, I hope.

    However, I wouldn’t characterise women from the Baltic states (in my case mostly Estsonia and Latvia) in the same way at all. I’ve had much more experience with women from these countries than I have with Russian women. I guess their culture and background is very different, and the Baltic states, or at least their native populations, never sat happily under the Soviet purview, nor did they succumb to Russian culture. The Baltic women I have known and dated and slept with have been much more “mainstream European” in their attitudes and outlook, and I think in what they want out of life.

    I might add that almost all of my encounters with these women, whether Russian, Ukranian or Baltic, have been in the UK, the exceptions being (as I recall) one in Denmark (a Latvian girl I hooked up with a number of times when I was there for work; she’s since moved, unfortunately) and a couple of girls in Australia (again from the Baltic countries) who were there on working holidays.

    As for other guys, I guess you’ve got to try it and see for yourself. But I’d be interested to hear if my experiences chime with anyone else’s.

49. Maybe they are just hungry? (I’m a size 10 american woman ) I say that because I know a few personally here on the west coast. I live in San Francisco and they seem hungry all the time but do not eat a thing and they are looking to find some guy to take care of them for life and use their looks to broker such a deal. A hungry woman is typically  a bitch if you add childless and financially dependent to that I’m guessing that’s like dating a woman who’s in labor.

    @Rachel…not sure what you are talking about hungry. When people are hungry they eat. It’s basically built into all people. I have dated many FSU women and my experience has been for most part that I cannot get them to order anything when we were at a restaurant. They would eat like a bird, drank no alcohol or just one drink. I would eat right in front of them and they just watched me a talked. Maybe I just got lucky. Oh there was that one 38yo Macedonian, now she was a fucking crazy goldigger. But I just never called her again.

    Now dating American women, there is a constant stream of requests, for fine dining, and other benefits. And the drinking I dont think there could be a country on earth who has more women that drink so heavily and eat so poorly.

    In all of my dating American women I knew for a fact that at least 15 of them were on antidepressant medications, and at least 5 were raging alcoholics. Combine the nationalities of all of the other women combined and I cant think of one like this.

    As for the size 10 thing. I have met and dated dozens of American women and it’s seems to me that the bigger sizes are a lot more hungrier than the size 2’s I have dated. Maybe what you were observing was not hunger but fear. Fear that you were going to eat her. lol

    Your post smacks of pretty severe envy with all kinds of crazy assumptions, the ones I have dated were a living dream compared to the borderline psychos from the US. Yeah they can be hard to deal with particularly at the beginning. You do have to break through. But once you do it can be quite rewarding. But like any other woman you give them an inch and they will take a mile. That never ends.

50. BD:

    Thanks for sharing your experiences. Made for an entertaining read. In 5 / 6 you put up with a lot of crazy shit.

    Recently, I went on 2 dates with the 2nd Russian expat I have dated (not counting FSU or adjacent countries). The first one was plain crazy, but she was a Borderline personality, so I credited her behavior to that.

    My experience with the second is very similar to your Russian girl 2 situation.

    So first date starts really well.. smooth and easy flowing conversation. She gets sexual quickly, but then gets pissed about me not paying for all of her drinks (she drank a lot). I said ‘I only do this for my gf’. She then rants about how she wants to be treated like a lady and how ‘normal men pay for the woman’.

    Nevermind, shrugged off her drama and expected not to see her again. Next day she asks for a second date and then comes in dressed super sexy.  And she wants to pay for my drinks now. Anyways, she is super negative, bitchy, domineering. I escalate nevertheless which is nice as she is really sensual. In the middle she stops it and gets bitchy and negative again and wants to leave. At the point I’m already fed up and want to get rid of her. So I drop her off at home. Didn’t contact her again.

    She was quite hot, but man did she get onto my nerves. Afterwards I questioned myself a bit. Good to see that I’m not the only guy experiencing that kind of drama.

51. BD, which is the most sex positive and easy going ethnicity, in your opinion?

52. Totally true! I have experienced very similar situations and some were even more ridiculous/weird.

    I have never met any women more demanding than Russian ones (FSU). And in the same way as BD stated, I will not date  any other Russian woman, no matter how attractive she is, the level of demands and expectations is ridiculous and does not compensate. On one occasion an Estonian woman got quite upset because I did not write her name with a capital letter or because I did not buy flowers in Valentine’s Day (when we were not even dating).

    They are good to look at, but impossible to deal with, especially all their fairy tales of how a man should treat them, do, buy etc… no thank you.

    It’s funny how some people try to defend Russian women by saying that they are oriented towards long-term relationships, go deeper!. In my experience, Russian women (living in Russia) want a long-term relationship because they feel old at 26 and like a loser (their own words) and they think that they will not find anyone to marry, thus, they marry the first fool who pleases their absurd whims. This happens to many women, but it seems that this absurd belief is deeply rooted in Russian culture.

    I met this one whose happiness and success in life was only measured if she got married with a lawyer. Fun times.

53. BD, which is the most sex positive and easy going ethnicity, in your opinion?

    There is none that is sex positive *and* easy going. With that in mind:

    Most easy going: Japanese women

    Most horny: Filipino women (Hispanic women are close runner ups)

    Most sex positive (which is different than horny): Jewish women

    On one occasion an Estonian woman got quite upset because I did not write her name with a capital letter

    Its sad that I’m not surprised. I can easily see that happening.

    It’s funny how some people try to defend Russian women by saying that they are oriented towards long-term relationships

    Asian women want this too, but you don’t see them acting like bitchy gold-diggers.

54. BD, may we assume that these weren’t Russian American women, but rather simply Russian women who currently live in America? That is, you’re referring to immigrants who have not assimilated into American culture, correct? If so, what is your experience with Russian American women, or women who are genetically Russian, but were born in the US – or at least are fully assimilated into our culture?

    Because if this is just a non-western thing than I agree with you, except my personal rule is to reject not just Russian women, but all non-American women. I don’t care what race or ethnicity a woman is (even if she’s Russian) as long as she is a culturally assimilated American. If she’s not assimilated into U.S. culture, then I’ll never sleep with her, regardless of whether she is Russian or non-Russian. This goes double if she’s a non-westerner. I have better things to do than to interpret words through heavy accents and to play the role of ambassador, diplomat, or cultural educator.

     

55. BD, may we assume that these weren’t Russian American women, but rather simply Russian women who currently live in America?

    Correct. They were all women born and raised in Russia or FSU and moved to the US when they were teenagers or 20’s.

    I have never been with a 100% Russian woman born and raised in the US so I can’t comment on that, but I imagine she’d probably be fine if her parents were mostly Americanized.

    If she’s not assimilated into U.S. culture, then I’ll never sleep with her, regardless of whether she is Russian or non-Russian. This goes double if she’s a non-westerner. I have better things to do than to interpret words through heavy accents and to play the role of ambassador, diplomat, or cultural educator.

    WTF? That’s crazy. I’ve been with women from perhaps 25 countries outside the US and they were all fantastic except the Russian ones.

    You really need to lighten up.

56. It’s becoming more clear as you get older that women are just bad for ROI (aka the other rat race) … rent instead and get yourself a new Ducati.

57. Great post BD. I had a similar experience with a Russian woman. She flipped out when i didnt buy her a mango smoothie. ( long story) I’m glad I’m not alone and that you and other guys can confirm how Russian women are.

58. Caleb, I see the trend here to pile on Russian women but there are also a lot of comments that show Russian women in a different light.  I am not saying yours or anyone’s experiences are not valid BTW.  Like you I come here to relate to the experiences from BD and others but also notice that the labeling and judgement of others often get extreme.

    It is good to remember that we are subjective and bring our own baggage to how we judge people and our relationships; and we don’t always see our own faults.

    I have a learned a lot from BD on how women exert their influence and power over men; and I am grateful on one hand and on the other take everything with a grain of salt.

    There are bits of knowledge on this website that is very helpful but I feel many readers may get the false sense that an Alpha male is mainly about fucking women and being able to drop them in a blink of an eye.  If this is one’s focus in life then one is not free from women and certainly not Alpha.

    Don’t get me wrong; fucking is great and even better without strings attached sometimes; but if that is what it is all about for one then that is not Alpha – maybe its just fear, like the beta male.  Or addiction, like gambling or alcoholism, – endorphin release!

    The true Alpha person is one who cultivates consciousness and conscience in all areas of life and is on the journey to “Know Oneself”.  For them, “Life is real only when I AM”.

     

59. Bwaahaha, BD, you are bang on (so-to-speak) in your description of Russian (East European) women. I just had to laugh thinking about some of the drama-heavy experiences I’ve had with Russian chicks.

    But having worked with a lot of Russian guys, I must say, I suspect Russian culture probably leads to these women’s attitudes, and funnily enough, it’s the guys who are in many ways to blame.

    IME Russian guys are a curious contradiction of bad-assery and betaness. The same guys who drink hard, play hard, and who wouldn’t hesitate to defend one of their buddies (or a girl) in a fight; are mind-bogglingly mushy in their dating life. They give roses and cards to their chicks on Valentines, they go on candle-lit romantic dates and always pay for everything, they say things to her that are so mushy it’s almost embarrassing . . . and it seems both their mothers and their dads teach them this kind of thing from birth.

    And then the ones who come to America are so hot compared to the lardasses waddling around your typical American town, they have guys literally drooling and acting like they’re in trance around them. It’s no wonder Russian chicks think and act like entitled princesses.

60. Wanted to post a separate piece of intelligence, that some guys may find useful.

    IME a large percentage of Russian women are interested in fetish, of the BDSM persuasion, and often of curious sub-fetishes.

    I have no idea why this might be, but it’s field tested.

    They will never bring it up. It’s kind if like the Secret Society. You need to subcommunicate your acceptance of it, and get them both comfortable enough and aroused enough to open up about it.

    If this is something that yanks your chain, and you have the balls to grab a fetishy tiger by the tail, now you know . . .

61. Gents, it’s easy to over generalize a population but I think BD has hit on a few key points with Russian women. I can say I’ve had a pretty good sample size over the past 10 years. Note that BD was not in a long term relationship with one. They all put up the crazy-bitchy front when first meeting. Most, not all but most, chill as the relationship goes on and they feel more comfortable. This is not conducive to BD’s dating model, so I get it. If you want to date women from different cultures, they all come with pluses and minuses. BD has identified the very real minuses with dating Russian women. Initially, you’re going to deal with a lot of drama, period. If you are willing and can get past that, they are incredible. And there are many, sometimes subtle differences between Russian and FSU women. For example, a Ukrainian girl is going to be much different than a Kazakh girl. Honestly, you’re going to get maximum crazy from a purely Russian woman. A woman from say, Estonia, who’s country is much more European will produce a more European woman. In other words, how much does another culture temper the Russian side? This is no small point. For me, after dating Russian/FSU women, I would never go back to dating American women. They just don’t compare. Once you break through the initial barriers, FSU women are the most loving, affectionate, sexual, feminine, graceful and in my opinion beautiful women on earth. For me, the reward is worth the effort.

62. It is good to remember that we are subjective and bring our own baggage to how we judge people and our relationships; and we don’t always see our own faults.

    That’s correct. However, at the same time, you have to pay attention to the concept of “preponderance of the evidence.”

    I have indeed seen guys complain about a certain “type” of woman when they only had two or perhaps three bad experiences with that type. That’s assumption and projection, and it’s usually bullshit.

    But when you have bad experiences with 10, 20, or 30 of that type and you don’t have any of them with any other type of women, then you are very likely observing something objectively accurate and are probably on to something, exceptions to the rule notwithstanding. (This applies to over-33 women as well as Russians.)

    There are bits of knowledge on this website that is very helpful but I feel many readers may get the false sense that an Alpha male is mainly about fucking women and being able to drop them in a blink of an eye.

    Yes, some readers will incorrectly think that. That’s one of the reasons I wrote this.

    If this is one’s focus in life then one is not free from women and certainly not Alpha.

    Technically, such a man is free and Alpha, but he’s not long-term happy or fulfilled, which misses the entire point of being Alpha, at least in my opinion.

    But having worked with a lot of Russian guys, I must say, I suspect Russian culture probably leads to these women’s attitudes, and funnily enough, it’s the guys who are in many ways to blame.

    You are correct. As I’ve said many times on this blog, including here and here, that men are almost ALWAYS to blame for how women behave in society.

    I have no doubt this Russian woman thing is simply a result of a Russian man thing.

    IME Russian guys are a curious contradiction of bad-assery and betaness. The same guys who drink hard, play hard, and who wouldn’t hesitate to defend one of their buddies (or a girl) in a fight; are mind-bogglingly mushy in their dating life. They give roses and cards to their chicks on Valentines, they go on candle-lit romantic dates and always pay for everything, they say things to her that are so mushy it’s almost embarrassing

    …and then cheat on these women like dogs. Yup.

    If Western women are the result of most men being too-extreme betas, Russian women are the result of most men being too-extreme Alpha 1.0’s.

    Initially, you’re going to deal with a lot of drama, period. If you are willing and can get past that, they are incredible.

    If that’s your experience, then that’s great, but I have literally never heard a man married to a Russian woman report this. As always, you need a large sample size, otherwise all you’re looking at is an exception to the rule. You need to have many long-term relationships (3+ years) with many Russian women before you can come to this conclusion.

63. @Harry Flashman, you make some excellent points and I don’t want to go over all of them here. I really like BD’s work and follow quite a bit of it over the last couple of years. However, there was something that bothered me. I did not doubt for a second what BD was saying and know him to be accurate when he makes a claim like this.

    But frankly, this has not been my experience nor the experience of people that I knew that are Russian or dating Russian women. First I must say that yes they can be high drama, and yes they can be demanding, and yes I have seen many Russians show off wealth to gaudy excess. But I believe that is only part of the picture. I believe the story is much more complex than that. The FSU women that I have dated and it has not been dozens but it was several were with only one exception the crazy Macedonian chick, were kind, honest, never asked me for a penny, well behaved, passionate in bed, and of course gorgeous.

    The FSU women that I have dated and it has not been dozens but it was several were with only one exception the crazy Macedonian chick, were kind, honest, never asked me for a penny, well behaved, passionate in bed, and of course gorgeous.

    But women are still women and there could be something different in my experiences that were so exceptional? I could not think of a thing. I believe I understand BD’s system and admire the work he has done in this area. He has helped a lot of men and women along the way and for that I thank you. But your system is designed as you said to optimize long-term happiness, and minimize drama, and get to sex as quickly as possible with as little money spent as possible.

    If I was going to describe how not to appeal to a Russian woman that would be kind of right on the money. This is not an attack on BD or a refutation of his system. It works I know this from personal experience. But it is kind of the opposite of how FSU women date.

    If you go over to the FSU you will find out quickly that these women many times have traditional values that center around family, security, and children. These are their utmost priorities. In fact, if they are not married by the time they are 25 and have a child they are considered a loser as someone on here already stated.

    But there is more to it than this, their dating and courting process is much more romantic and elongated, kissing on the first date or two with quality women from Ukraine or Russian is not usually done. They want lots of dates and they wanted to be pursued. You don’t really have to spend a lot of money, dates can be a walk through the park for an hour, or a cappuccino and a long talk. If they are asking for money or gifts or something of the sort you have to treat them like the Russian men do. They don’t put up with that shit. My best response when they did something you did not like is to laugh at them, treat them like a little child. It worked wonders for me.

    There is an expert on FSU women and he has been on a Podcast with BD his name is Tom Torrero, he has lived in the FSU much longer than my short stints and he has spent a lot of time immersed in their culture. And he talks about how they will play a little game with you at the beginning where they will act like “why are you trying to kiss me?…we are just friends.” And he would call them out on it, and bluntly state, “your a woman I am a man and I am interested in you…men and women cannot be friends.” At this point, the FSU chick would get surprised and flustered, but many times (not always) they would fold under the directness of the exchange.

    It has worked well for me and I recommend it. But certainly, there are a lot of FSU women that nothing will work on and with the drama is on the extreme end, of course, you drop them like a hot potato. I left a girl in a restaurant in Kiev, one time that ordered an expensive meal and then a bottle of wine in Russian, and was talking on her phone incessantly. But the waiter repeated the order back in English, so then I just got up and left. But many high-quality FSU girls are lower on the drama scale and can be a lot of fun in the first interactions. But you do have to break through. And here I think is the crux of the disagreement.

    BD is no drama, fast sex if they don’t follow move on kind of guy. And that works very well. But sometimes the payoff or the reward is on the other side of the effort. And the reward with FSU women is beyond compare, passionate, fun, lively, intelligent, they are educated, cultured, and take care of themselves, and they love to take care of their man. But you do have to break through at the beginning most of the time.

    But if a little flirting and back and forth is part of the process with them. BD I do not blame you for writing them off if I had that many bad experiences I probably would also. I just think the story is more complex.

    I also agree with Harry Flashman on this point of compared to American women it’s like night and day. FSU women are so much more fun and exciting and passionate to be with. Whereas American women are crass, uneducated, curse and drink and do drugs, eat the worst crap I have ever seen, and of course the feminism bullshit.American women are down to fuck on the first or second date. Talk to anyone who has been with women from around the world. They are just plain easier to fuck, I have had my share. In fact, it is even more extreme in large cities like NY and LA, where if a woman goes out with you on a first date it is pretty much assumed she is going to fuck you. This type of culture works very well with BD’s fast to sex model. Not criticizing either approach I am just saying it is different.

    American women are down to fuck on the first or second date. Talk to anyone who has been with women from around the world. They are just plain easy. In fact, it is even more extreme in large cities like NY and LA, where if a woman goes out with you on a first date it is pretty much assumed she is going to fuck you. Not saying there is anything wrong with this but it is different. This type of culture works very well with BD’s fast to sex model. Not criticizing either approach I am just saying it is different.

    One last word on statistics. Whereas I do agree with BD’s non-monogamy model the statistics from US Immigration Service shows an 80% success rate with marriages from American men and women from abroad. Not sure why that is but it surely is different than marriages in the FSU or the US respectively. And that is a very large sample size going back many years. Also for a smaller sample size but no less significant. There is an American company that does tours to Ukraine for marriage minded American men and they have an over 90%

    Also for a smaller sample size but no less significant. There is an American company that does tours to Ukraine for marriage minded American men and they have an over 90% success rate with marriages after several years. And amazingly enough, the women are usually 2 to three points higher on the 1 to 10 scale.

    Thats my 2 cents and total respect to BD and what he has going here.

64. @Scarface: Two points here. One is as have you said you have dated few. Few is not a good sample to have a logical opinion. Two is that there is a certain beauty that goes along with Russian women. If you have dated well less beyond that beauty I guess there will be surely less drama and there will be kind at the beginning. Also I don’t agree with you that divorce rates are less. My experience and I know a lot of people with marriages with women from these countries their marriage is pathetic. Russian woman commands the man like it is his little puppy in a far worst manner than a woman from his native country. Their marriage stays together for few years because the FSU woman has something to gain(money, residency etc.)

65. @hey hey well I believe a few is a good sample to have a logical opinion. Since we are talking about people and there are millions of Americans and millions of FSU women, no one has a good sample to form a logical opinion. Besides an opinion is just that yours or mine or anyone’s there is nothing logical about it. It is a combination of experiences, biases, emotional baggage, and maybe in there a little drop of logic. I don’t give your opinion any elevation over mine. I have had good experiences and continue to. Why would I walk away from that?

    I gave you my experiences. Are you saying that this forum is not to share our experiences to add to the discussion? If so what is exactly the number and the composition of a valid logical opinion? You see that is a silly concept.

    Your second point is false also. The women I was dating were very beautiful but that is subjective also. But I can tell you that at least two of them made money off their looks, one being a working model, and another worked in a variety of conventions where they are paid basically for their beauty.

    Finally, you don’t agree with the divorce rates are less? You don’t have to agree I cited you statistics from the US Immigration Service. That is not opinion it is just the facts. Do you have any facts to cite?

    And you say that they just stay together because they want residency or money after a few years? This is false also since to gain a K1 marriage visa in the US you must be married within 90 days of entering the country. At that point, they have the upper hand and can divorce rape you. Why arent they doing this?They will have residency in 90 days and then will have access to all your money via our wonderful family court system. So the argument that they need a few years is just supposition on your part nothing more.

    Of course, I would never recommend marrying one I follow BD’s lead here.

66. @Scarface

    These relationships may last longer, but would you say that they are happier?  IME women from these countries tend to stay married due to social pressure, and just because you married an American doesn’t always mean you will be able to divorce rape them.

67. OFF TOPIC

    On the May 25th article, Why Attractive People Are Less Capable of Monogamy or Marriage, I posted a comment from the pit of despair. Some of you responded.  This is a thank-you.

    Black Dragon-I see the light at the end of the tunnel now, far away but it is there.

    Gil Galad- thanks for the tips on weight loss, I need all the help I can get.

    Parade- oneitis sucks, for me it’s an ever present danger. Thanks.

    Mayrick Dubois- Thanks for the encouragement, that was a nice comment

    Lovergirl- I have taken charge of my calories, I use Supertracker .

    POB- my trainer is a friend now, I will stick with him over websites.

    If you reference my original post, you will see I had lost complete perspective, and could not even see a light, much less know from which end of the tunnel it was shining from. Sometimes hitting rock bottom is the only way to start up. Some of you were concerned I was suicidal; I was certain that if nothing changed for me soon, that route was going to look pretty good 10 years down the line.

    The past 2-3 weeks have been traumatic: my wife of 25 years told me she’s been wanting a divorce for 5 years, we agreed our marriage is over. My job prospects haven’t changed, time and again I get turned down for being fat.

    The past 2-3 weeks have also been my biggest bounce-back ever. The work outs have transformed from something I had to force myself into, to my time to feed my ego. I broke through 400 lbs this week, confirmed by my trainer, and I’m never going back. I’m more fit than I have been in 15 years. The outpouring of congratulations from the other gym members was a surprise, many of them said I inspire them to work harder, I never figured on that.

    Incredible as it may seem, THREE women have shown romantic interest in me, two of them don’t care about my size, they are all much higher sexual market value than I am. One is serious, I’m not so worried about my sex life, just need some female energy to kill loneliness. It is working.

    My energy is focused on my physical health, and my financial health. One of my online friends agreed to mentor me as I break into a new career, one I always knew I was suited for,  but never attempted due to laziness; I always thought my marriage was enough.

    Three weeks ago, I was a wreck, still am somewhat, good days and bad. But I have made a commitment to myself: I’m never going to stop working to improve myself, and life is too important to let female’s get in the way; if I can’t get what I want from them, I move on.

    BD- studying and acting, making schedules like a madman, following the steps. It’s amazing what having a direction can do to improve one’s outlook. I may not ever make true Alpha 2.o status, but following your book will help me improve my life to a livable level again.

    Thanks to all of you who responded to my original post, you and others have helped pull me out of a self-created pit.  You will never know what it meant to simply have people respond.

    I apologize for intruding once more, just wanted to give some of you a follow-up. I am going to make it, I am not suicidal anymore, I did reach out for help and got it.

    Thank You!

68. Correct. They were all women born and raised in Russia or FSU and moved to the US when they were teenagers or 20’s.

    I have never been with a 100% Russian woman born and raised in the US so I can’t comment on that, but I imagine she’d probably be fine if her parents were mostly Americanized.

    Yeah, I, on the other hand, do have experience with Russian women who were born and raised in America and are completely assimilated into our culture. They are truly amazing, way more sex-positive, and hornier than any other type of woman I’ve been with (except Jewish women who are the most sex-positive, as you yourself have mentioned).

    Among American women, my first choice is Jewish (like my girlfriend who is Jewish by race, but Wiccan by religion). My second choice is Russian. These two are the horniest and most sexually open minded American women, in my experience. My current friend with benefits (secondary) is Russian American and my current fuck buddy (tertiary) is Hispanic (and married).

    Plus if you’re looking to have sex with a monogamous cheater, the best and most enthusiastic cheaters are Hispanic and Russian. Even if they demand traditional roles from their primary boyfriend/husband, they’ll want to do nothing with you, except fuck your brains out. They are truly incredible.

    But, like I said, everything I said above applies only to culturally assimilated American women from the above different races. I’m NOT talking about any non-Americans.  

    WTF? That’s crazy. I’ve been with women from perhaps 25 countries outside the US and they were all fantastic except the Russian ones.

    That’s okay. Different strokes. For me, if a woman isn’t American, I’m just not interested. I couldn’t care less what race, ethnicity, or color she is, as long as she is culturally assimilated.

    You really need to lighten up.

    I have broken that rule a few times, but very rarely. When I was in London some years back, I fucked a married and pregnant woman, which was admittedly, a lot of fun. Plus, I also once slept with two African foreign exchange college students (although I’ve never fucked a black American).

    Still, as a general rule, foreign women just don’t do it for me. And when you consider that sexual liberation is mostly just a western concept, I have even less patience for non-western women (especially Russian or Eastern European women who, like you’ve experienced, tend to be very prudish, materialistic, and traditionally minded).

    So even if a man is not as strict as me in terms of American nationalism, I’d still encourage him to stick to the West only. Non-western cultures tend to be what ours used to be in the 1950s. That’s precisely why Roosh and other manosphere slut shamers go outside the West to find “traditional wives.” Fuck that! I’ll stick to the same culture, while other men can deal with non-western puritanism.

     

     

69. @Andrew Lighthall: glad to hear you’re doing better. Good luck and keep it up.

70. Andrew, thank you for the update. I am very happy to hear that your doing better. It’ sounds like your making good decisions about yourself and your future and are determined to continue with the positive changes. Your on the right track…keep it up! Remember….work hard, stay focused and determined, and persevere!

71. Andrew – I’m happy you’re feeling better but don’t ever post an off-topic post like that again. Keep your posts on-topic and within the correct threads. Thanks in advance.

    I believe I understand BD’s system and admire the work he has done in this area. He has helped a lot of men and women along the way and for that I thank you. But your system is designed as you said to optimize long-term happiness, and minimize drama, and get to sex as quickly as possible with as little money spent as possible. If I was going to describe how not to appeal to a Russian woman that would be kind of right on the money.

    To copy-and-paste repeat what I said above:

    Could I re-calibrate my entire dating system and approach to do better with this one race of women while hot women of all other races are smooth and easy? Perhaps, but why bother?

    They want lots of dates and they wanted to be pursued.

    Exactly my point. So do women over age 33. I avoid them too.

    Whereas I do agree with BD’s non-monogamy model the statistics from US Immigration Service shows an 80% success rate with marriages from American men and women from abroad.

    Marriage “success” means at least 25 years of marriage with no cheating by either partner for that entire time. Remember, traditional lifetime marriage means lifetime marriage and absolute monogamy. I very much doubt the immigration service has this level of longevity in their data, but feel free to provide your sources and I will examine it.

    Plus if you’re looking to have sex with a monogamous cheater, the best and most enthusiastic cheaters are Hispanic and Russian. Even if they demand traditional roles from their primary boyfriend/husband, they’ll want to do nothing with you, except fuck your brains out. They are truly incredible.

    Now that I agree with.

72. @Scarface: I don’t say you were not out with good looking Russian women. I just pointed out that the good looking ones are going to be more demanding and have more drama than a simple standard looking woman(this is a generalization of course). I said that because when people tend to make claims, they make them however it suits their situation. We are not going for the 5s or 6s here(of course each to its own), but when people make claims they must consider what the “market” wants not what the individual wants. I don’t doubt that you were out with good looking ones just pointing that out.

    And again few is never valid to give a solid opinion. I don’t care if that works for you. Numbers is what works. I’ve certainly been with few FSU who were very low drama and had low demands but the majority were a major pain in the ass. Why bother when there are good looking women from other countries with less drama and are less pushy?

    As I’ve said I know plenty of men that are/were married with Russian women. These are the scenarios: 1) The guy is literally a slave for years. The one day the FSU dumps him. 2) High drama marriage in which the woman demands the man to help her become citizen but the man avoids it or drags it for too long to have her stranded. Then one day the FSU has enough of it and dumps him. 3) Normal marriage in which everything is going well until one day the FSU flips and cheats/leaves. 4) Conveniency marriage. Man gets the good looks, FSU gets the money. Then one day she dumps his ass.

    The majority lies in all points except 3). When a man has a marriage with a woman from his own country, the majority lies in 3). And I’m sure is not that easy with the 90 days. Green cards and work permits need more than that.

    Just because some are not divorced YET it doesn’t mean there are no signs everywhere that storm is coming.

73. Yes, its all true. They are spoilt princesses, they are also very traditional about marriage and such.

    You have to be an absolute dominant with them, almost like an Alpha 1.0 mafia boss.

    As a foreigner in their country you will have a higher value and can dominate them more.

    I’m not super into domination, with them it’s a requirement. They want a daddy, because every other male they encounter is a beta.

74. I watched a YouTube video about Dating A Russian Woman, where they played out different scenarios with an English-speaking Russian girl helping out. They mentioned that a Russian woman will dress to the nines with perfect makeup. (Of the admittedly few Russian women I have dated I only saw this once though, with the woman who was married to a much older man and declared that she and I weren’t on a date.) Another thing was that a Russian woman expects the man to have planned the date.

    They showed the woman coming to the man’s door if I remember correctly, and she asks where they are going. He says, “I thought we could just hang out” and gives a vague direction. They could find some place to eat once they get there, right? She says, “Oh, I see,” and starts to leave. “Call me again when you know where we are going.”

    All in all, it seems they see it as a transaction. But why do they see it this way? Isn’t it because Russian men blatantly want to use them, so they at least want something material out of it?

    Most Russian men are alcoholics, and beating the wives is rampant. Even legal in Ukraine. The women have to adopt a mindset where they look out for themselves from day one. It’s a cold society.

    I read an article about how some hot Russian girls are seeing guys they call “Wallets”. The “Wallet” gets to go on “dates” with the girl where he buys her a purse or lunch or the like. Then he gets to hold her hand in public. The girl has a real boyfriend at the same time and is open about it. She can even talk to her boyfriend on the phone while she is with the Wallet. I posted about this in a forum and a Russian guy said that he hadn’t heard of that particular arrangement, but he agreed that Russian women are materialistic in dating. Looking back I should have asked him how he thought Russian men were in dating, and in marriage.

    Again: not all Russian women. And not all Russian men. But there are certainly averages. Patterns.

75. I read an article about how some hot Russian girls are seeing guys they call “Wallets”. The “Wallet” gets to go on “dates” with the girl where he buys her a purse or lunch or the like. Then he gets to hold her hand in public. The girl has a real boyfriend at the same time and is open about it. She can even talk to her boyfriend on the phone while she is with the Wallet.

    Yeah I’ve heard of this too. I also hear that there are similar things in west Europe as well. Hey look, if a dude is that desperate, then who am I to stop them? Its their funeral haha.

    Isn’t it because Russian men blatantly want to use them, so they at least want something material out of it?
    Most Russian men are alcoholics, and beating the wives is rampant. Even legal in Ukraine. The women have to adopt a mindset where they look out for themselves from day one. It’s a cold society.

    That sucks. But to me this just reveals that someone’s always using someone. If we were a little more self aware of this kind of stuff I think everything would be a little better when it comes to this stuff.

76. Yup.

    I married a Ukrainian chick. I read the red pill sites, got myself a TMM with a religious and traditional girl. Fucking mistake. I didn’t see this site until after I wrote on the dotted line. If it wasn’t for my son, I would have left already. Honestly, if it weren’t for the kid I would dump her and live in Texas (currently in Massachusetts.)

    I almost envy my beta friend who got married to this uglier American chick who is much much more relaxed.

    I was born in Ukraine but grew up in the US. She and I have completely different outlooks on life. I really don’t want to lose my kid, my biggest fear is that she will take him back to Ukraine and I’ll see him only a few times a year.

77. @Schubert: As I say, “religious and traditional” doesn’t mean much. You don’t mention what problems you have with your wife, but when it comes to fidelity, women and men can cheat no matter how religious and traditional they are. Or stay faithful. And secular spouses can cheat or stay faithful. There is more infidelity among Blacks and they are also more religious. The girl in story I mention above, who was kicked out by her parents for being too aggressive at home, went to church every week. I have slept with an immigrant woman who also went to church regularly – her husband was much older than her and she craved sex that wasn’t terrible. Other immigrants I have seen who go to church can be more leftist, obnoxious, demanding and arrogant than you can imagine.

    An ex-girlfriend of mine had two religious parents who got divorced because the man was impossible to live with. Another ex-girlfriend also had divorced religious parents, where the man was a drunk who used religion to feel superior. Which is a common theme I have seen many times – religion as a badge to show how oh-so-superior someone is and everyone else is trash. For that matter, pretty much every Washington politician goes to church regularly, in both parties. It doesn’t mean a thing. People should never trust a woman just because she is religious. Or a man.

78. The “traditional Russian women” idea runs head first into Russian abortion rates. During the 1950s and 1960s Russia/USSR had one of the world’s highest abortion rates, estimated at 6 to 7 million per year. In 1990 there were 2.04 abortions for every birth – meaning practically every woman had one, two or more abortions. Up to 2000 the total number of abortions declined by half, but this was also followed by a collapse in birth rates. (So that the abortion/birth ratio remained at a high 1.96.) In other words, there were simply fewer pregnancies, due to birth control, not less inclination to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

    In 1991 the number of abortions were 3.6 million, which dropped – due to more birth control – to 1.8 million in 2002. A drop that still put Russia in second place in abortions per capita. In all ex-USSR nations abortions remain high, seen as just another form of birth control.

    Now, I don’t oppose abortion – I don’t think a microscopic spermie is on par with little Kevin down the block, and I know that consciousness only comes with a shower of hormones right before birth. Before that only the reflexive part of the brain is active. Even way back in ancient Rome abortions by chemical means were widely practiced, notably with the Bible authors saying nothing about this practice – and this was hardly a non-conservative society. But I also understand that it can take a toll on most women and shouldn’t be used as a routine replacement for birth-control pills, the way it has been used in Russia. I also know that most American men’s idea of what constitutes conservative does not include several terminated pregnancies in a woman’ past.

    And yet curiously, the idea of Russian women as “more traditional” is an exclusively American thing. Starting with ads for mail-order brides in Guns & Ammo and the like, who knew their readers would be mostly conservative men. In Europe, Russian women are known as sluts. They will come as au pairs and sleep around with guys they pick up at night clubs, hoping for a chance to stay so they can get out of Russia/Ukraine. STDs are rampant. A Russian girl told me that she called a clinic for a check-up, and once she mentioned her Russian name the nurse’s voice turned colder, as if she was thinking “Here we go again”. (This particular Russian girl had done nothing to deserve such a treatment, though.)

    I am not saying this to be mean. I am saying it to puncture a myth. The grass is NOT greener on the other side. Those who tell you about the glorious women waiting with open arms in another country want to either (a) sell you something or (b) imagine that there is nothing they need to improve, it’s the women in their town who are bad.

    If women in another country are easier for a middle-aged traveler to get, it is without fail a low-income country: such as Honduras, Ukraine or the Philippines. I can only imagine what the local men think about that.

79. FSU women have deep souls (if you don’t know what that means, I pity you) and are worth the effort, but you need to be approach then with strong frame.

    If you want to bangs 20yo 10’s, whores are inexpensive if they only speak Russian. 20yo 10’s are common in FSU (10’s by world standards, I mean, since fsu women are several notches above world standards, so 10’s are common there). They come to the big city from rust belt cities that are unbelievably poor, from broken homes, and literally lose their minds when they see the window displays of fancy stores. If you are in decent shape, so she isn’t disgusted by your body, 50yo, and can give her a taste of the good life she never had and craves, she will fuck your brains out. All this for $100/day. The ones who learn English command much higher prices because now they can sell themselves to foreigners.

    If you want children, be realistic. Understand that the mother won’t love you forever, but she will cut you afair deal of you are a reliable source of cash. $500/month for two kids, you can demand dna proof they are yours, and she will treat you right. To prove to her that you are reliable, you have to first treat her like a whore paying $100/day for sex for a several months, gradually reducing the rate thereafter. You can continue paying for sex after she becomes a mother at a much lower rate, but you must respect that she may cancel that part of the deal, which is only fair, since you can also cancel. Sexual attraction doesn’t last, children do. This is cheap compared to raising a family in the USA. As with access to cheap whores, you need to learn Russian for this to work. You also need to be able to relocate to FSU (early retired with pension, preferably). NEVER bring an FSU wife to the USA. Women in the FSU are often desperate for children and financial stability. $500/month for children is enough to raise a family outside the first-tier cities of Ukraine, in particular. Throw in another $500/month for sexual access and the woman has cut a very good deal for herself, since $1000/month is solid middle class. Make her understand that the income stream stops if you die, and she will do everything in her power to keep you alive, including making you happy since we all know stress is a killer. You probably won’t be able to marry 10’s for children, but you can get solid 6’s aged 28 is you are a 6 yourself aged 55 and in good shape, and that is pretty reasonable in my opinion. You can always hire a 10 whore now and then for variety.

    Your conclusions about FSU women are like a guy who dated 100’s of American strippers and then drew sweeping conclusions about American women in general. You never met the good women, who are the majority.

80. FSU women have deep souls (if you don’t know what that means, I pity you)

    Then pity me. I don’t know what that is, nor do I believe in the supernatural.

    and are worth the effort

    High-drama women are never worth the effort unless you like drama. I don’t like drama, therefore they are not worth the effort.

    All this for $100/day. The ones who learn English command much higher prices because now they can sell themselves to foreigners.

    This blog, nor this article, is not about paying hookers for sex. It’s about relationships and game.

    There’s nothing wrong with paying for sex, but that’s not what any of this is about.

    $500/month for two kids, you can demand dna proof they are yours, and she will treat you right

    No, she probably won’t (unless you like drama). I suggest you read all the comments above from men who have/had Russian/FSU wives and girlfriends.

    Your conclusions about FSU women are like a guy who dated 100’s of American strippers and then drew sweeping conclusions about American women in general.

    That analogy makes no sense, since literally none of the Russian/FSU women I dated were strippers or anything close to that. They were just normal Russian women.

    Your conclusions about FSU women are like an old man who enjoys drama and can’t get laid without paying $100 a day for it for months on end. Again, there’s nothing wrong with that, but this article isn’t aimed at people like you in any way.

81. And your respose to me reeks of the same jealousy older woman display when they see man their age with a much younger woman.

    BTW your dating behavior with thise FSU bitches was not alpha, that’s part of the problem you had..There is a saying in EE “treat a whore like princess and a princess like a whore”. I always ask whores what they want to do and if they are comfortable, I never ask for or even expect sex from them, I act like a servant at their command. Of course, if they dont treat me right, no further business, and they know it and so try to please me without my asking.. With civilians, you need to start crudely talking prices and sex acts from the start and if she objects, you say something insulting and dismiss her rudely. Thats the only way to get their respect. Guys who are afraid of P4P, like you, are laughed at by girls who have experience with the true alphas, EE rich men who understand the power of money and aren’t afraid of using that power to get what they want. An American retiree with pension like me qualifies as rich in EE, though I wouldn’t in the USA.

    All sex is transactional. If a girl is rich herself, the transaction will not involve money (or she pays you). Rather, you bring things like fantasy fulfillment to the table. But you have to bring something. EE is a harsh place. Few girls are rich and so fantasy fulfillment is worthless, as is good sex, or whatever else you are offering. The main thing in short supply here is money.

82. And your respose to me reeks of the same jealousy older woman display when they see man their age with a much younger woman.

    Except that I have sex with women 20+ years younger than me every week.

    And without paying them.

    (Unless I’m running sugar daddy game, which I’ve done, but is the exception to the rule in my life.)

83. You have to jump through hoops however, and you resent those hoops, whereas I don’t. That’s the only explanation I can think of for why your initial response reeked of envy (not jealousy, I get those words confused). Same envy of other commenters on this board.

    I came to this page from a link, but I looked around your site and sure enough, you’re like a little boy in your fear of P4P. “Ruins your self esteem to pay” lol like I need validation from a woman or wannabe alphas. Go ahead and play your mind games with girls to get sex for free, thereby reducing yourself to their level. When you’re ready to act like a grown man, meaning pay for your dinner, so to speak, with hard cash rather than singing and dancing for it, be prepared (with language skills primarily) to move someplace where P4P is easier than the USA. Usually much cheaper too, which is a consideration for guys who aren’t rich by USA standards.

84. You have to jump through hoops however, and you resent those hoops

    Nope. After the 2nd date there are no hoops I have to jump through that I resent. I think you’re confusing me with others in the manosphere. I love women and I love being with them. Resentment is not an emotion I feel.

    I came to this page from a link, but I looked around your site and sure enough, you’re like a little boy in your fear of P4P. “Ruins your self esteem to pay”

    Wrong again. I have done sugar daddy game where I have paid for sex numerous times. I’ve also said many times on this blog that paying for sex is perfectly fine as long as you can afford it and you’re able to get laid without it. I also said in my first comment to you that paying for sex is fine.

    You’re being defensive and not really reading what I’m telling you, so this is my last comment to you. If you’re happy doing what you’re doing, by all means keep doing it. I’ll be over here being happy.

85. How is it that frankt can talk about Russian women having ‘deep souls’ and assert his own spiritual superiority, and then just two sentences later admits that he only can access them as paid escorts?

    Sure, they put up an act for $100/day.  So?  That has nothing at all to do with real relationships.

    His whole comment is “they behave well when they are officially for hire and on the clock”.

86. About Russian women, some anecdotes of my own.

    I am a high income man, but I like minimalism, and I live in an apartment that is respectable, but not on par with what someone of my income might have.  It works for me, and I don’t have women over often enough to take on the added expense just for that..

    All the other women I have brought over (Indian, Chinese, white American, Hispanic) had no problem and we proceeded to fuck.

    But both times I brought a Russian over, with whom things were going well, they proceeded to eat the amazing food that I made (which is something I am good at), and then, after 15 minutes of not responding to my escalations, they made up some BS excuse and left.  While I don’t know for sure, the fact that I maintain a middle-class apartment despite an upper-class job, was probably the reason.

    One was a big-tit Russian chick who was really into me until she came to my place.  The other was technically Latvian, but a divorcee and a single mother (with a man not her ex-husband).

    Again, my place is respectable but not fancy.  I personally don’t desire more.  The various other women did not cool off from it.  Only the Russian and the Latvian single mother.

     

     

     

87. BD can vouch for the fact that I have extensive experience with Russian Women.

    Most of these dates he describes…I’ve been on them.  But, there is a logic to all this.  A twisted, fucked up logic, but logic nonetheless.  The $150 perfume thing?  Testing to see if you are loaded with cash and willing to spend it on her.  The drama?  Testing to see if you are insanely Alpha.  And I mean Alpha 1.0.

    As the great Franco once told me about my FSU wife: “You must dominate her completely.  Or she will squeeze your brain like a nut.  Have fun!”  It’s the truth.  There is only one “successful” method for dealing with Russian women: Be rich as fuck, and be insanely dominating.  And by dominating, I mean, to a point that would be illegal in the USA (which is a great reason not to date RW in the US).  A lot of the incidents BD described could have been dealt with simply by grabbing her, saying “You’re mine, and I’m going to do what I want with you.”  The ultimate fantasy of every Russian woman is to be “owned” (almost literally) by a wealthy, powerful man who dominates her completely, but also lets her shop constantly.

    By far, the better alternative is Romanian women.  They’re Latins, not nearly as materialistic as Russians, with all of the pluses (gorgeous) and not nearly as many minuses.

88. I’ve been dating a really good looking Russian girl for a few months and my feedback after this experience is:

    – my ex girlfriend was very money oriented. I think this is a cultural bias as according to her they have the following local saying: ”If a man undress his girlfriend he should put (new) clothes on her”. Also  during our relationship she was ashamed to tell her friend that she was dating a western European guy with average income. She was afraid of her friend making her a fool because of that.

    – on top of this she was lying once in a while and also very lazy (didn’t want to work or put effort in things).

    -sexually she was very passive.

    On the many western European girlfriend I had,, never I met a girl similar to her.

89. I am a Russian woman.  First of all, I think its great that Russian women not a subject of interest of these group of pick up artists. Good for us.

    The author of the post had very interesting experience. Probably his main problem was that he met women who weren’t really a match to him. Who were looking for provider and tested him if he is willing to do though. Number 6 is probably a professional sex worker, number 5 – village/working class.

    But it’s not his game.  He wants a barbie looking provider hunter – but he doesn’t want to pay for that (he thinks he is smart ) and wants to fool provider hunters. Of course they don’t like it! They know their game well – already made it to America using  men!

    If author would try to find a Russian woman from his social circle and with his education level, he probably would have a different experience.

    Comments are very funny – normal Russian women do not want a dominant super rich men. The problem is that Russian middle class people are much more poor than American middle class and they cant afford to go abroad (also visa issues) – those who are here used man as a source of money to move to US or daughters of nouveau riches (and those one who wants dominant men).  There are exceptions of course – look them at your work or in colleges. Its very rare but its possible.

     

    But its for relationship, not for this blogger’s pick up game.

     

     

90. The author of the post had very interesting experience. Probably his main problem was that he met women who weren’t really a match to him.

    Incorrect. I have been on numerous first and second dates with non-Russian women who are not a match with me, and they were preferably pleasant the entire time, unlike Russian women. The problem isn’t that we weren’t a match; the problem was they were Russian.

    Number 6 is probably a professional sex worker

    Incorrect. She worked full-time at a real estate office, and as I said, married a guy shortly after me. She was not a prostitute.

    number 5 – village/working class

    Incorrect. She was a college student living in an upper middle class American neighborhood.

    He wants a barbie looking provider hunter

    Incorrect. I hate provider hunters; they have way too much ASD and waste my time. This is one of the reasons why I stopped cold approaching women over age 33.

    he thinks he is smart

    I am smart. Low-genius level IQ.

    and wants to fool provider hunters

    Incorrect. I never lie to women and never present myself as a man looking for girlfriend or wife. That’s literally the opposite of my EFA during first and second dates.

    already made it to America using  men!

    Russian women use men. Correct.

    I will not let them use me.

    If author would try to find a Russian woman from his social circle and with his education level, he probably would have a different experience.

    Incorrect. Girl #3 was from my social circle and had the same educational level as me. Go back up and look what she did.

    But its for relationship, not for this blogger’s pick up game.

    Incorrect. Long-term relationships are all I want from women. I never do one night stands or anything like that.

91. Roughly 80 percent of Russian women who are here used men to come here. Maybe in the past   and they are quite indipendant  now. But they did it.

    Otherwise its almost impossible for woman with a salary around 400 a month (middle class) to come to live in US. Even business visa requares to show  $2000 minimum for 2 weeks.

    Its very hard  (not impossible) without been a gold digger.

    So thats why majority of RW in US at some level are. There are exceptions.

    But not in a real estate office –  to get a real estate license in NYC can almost every idiot  without educataion.

    What about woman number 3 – well a lot of people got issues. Not all of them can afford american therapy and antidepressants  🙂  and use dating for that purpose. You got chosen.

     

     

    Biological fact – women are mostly monogamous and they are looking for partner with whom they can have emotional connection. Sex without that damaging for the most women’s personality. Only small percentage of women are able to have sex without emotionally getting attached to the man. (thats where the drama comes from)

     

    If woman decide to go other way and separate sex and feelings – most likely  they  would want a materialistic compensation  for their compromise.

    Experienced Russian gold diggers wont let man to use them without compensation. They have tons on trikes and checks.  They already crossed the line in the past.  They don’t see non-monogamous sex as a pleasure.

    And very little women can see it this way, even they wont ask you for a parfum and will have sex on the first day, pretending they are the same as men , they most likely will cry at night, like my very independent American girlfrined did, who tried to assure herself that she can do just like men and be happy.

     

92. Roughly 80 percent of Russian women who are here used men to come here. Maybe in the past   and they are quite indipendant  now. But they did it.

     

    Otherwise its almost impossible for woman with a salary around 400 a month (middle class) to come to live in US. Even business visa requares to show  $2000 minimum for 2 weeks.

     

    Its very hard  (not impossible) without been a gold digger.

    So thats why majority of RW in US at some level are.

    You’re talking about why Russian women are bitches. I’m just saying they’re bitches, and Western men should avoid them if they want to be happy.

    What about woman number 3 – well a lot of people got issues

    Yes. Russian women.

    Biological fact – women are mostly monogamous and they are looking for partner with whom they can have emotional connection. Sex without that damaging for the most women’s personality. Only small percentage of women are able to have sex without emotionally getting attached to the man. (thats where the drama comes from)

    Not only incorrect, but completely irrelevant to the discussion here.

    If woman decide to go other way and separate sex and feelings – most likely  they  would want a materialistic compensation  for their compromise.

    Then why don’t non-Russian women act like bitches like the women I described in the above article?

    Experienced Russian gold diggers wont let man to use them without compensation.

    Yes, those women are called “prostitutes.” Nothing wrong with prostitutes, but if that’s what a woman is, she should announce that before I take her out on a date so I know what she is and so I don’t waste my time or hers. That applies not only to Russian women, but to all women. I don’t want to date a prostitute.

    And very little women can see it this way, even they wont ask you for a parfum and will have sex on the first day, pretending they are the same as men , they most likely will cry at night, like my very independent American girlfrined did, who tried to assure herself that she can do just like men and be happy.

    I don’t have sex with women on the first date. I have sex with women on the second date. I’ve done it with a giant amount of women over the past 10 years, 76% of whom stayed with me in happy, ongoing relationships. All except Russian women, who acted like bitches, as I showed in the above article. If your response to this is “Well they have to be bitches because…”, then you’re proving my point for me; that men should stay away from Russian women unless they like bitches. So thank you.

93.  

    non monogamous happy, ongoing relationships – that what mormons and muslims are all about with their 4 and 5 wives…  I guess it can make some women happy.

    Good that the Russian woman are not on your  radar anymore.

    Buy the way if you would right the same article about african american woman you would be already on the first pages of liberal newspapers  for hate speach. But its ok to generalize behavior of 70 million Russian women calling them all as one materialistic bitches.

94. non monogamous happy, ongoing relationships – that what mormons and muslims are all about with their 4 and 5 wives…  I guess it can make some women happy.

    Incorrect. I let the women I date fuck other men if they wish. Mormons and Muslims do not; I don’t support those kinds of oppressive relationships, because the woman needs to be happy too.

    Good that the Russian woman are not on your radar anymore.

    I agree.

    Buy the way if you would right the same article about african american woman you would be already on the first pages of liberal newspapers  for hate speach.

    If African American women behaved the same way as Russian women on first and second dates, I would say the exact same thing about them. If my blog was featured on the first page of liberal newspapers as hate speech, I’d make at least $800,000 in increased book sales within 5 days, so that would be great!

    But its ok to generalize behavior of 70 million Russian women calling them all as one materialistic bitches.

    I’m not generalizing. I’m drawing conclusions based on my own data set. You read the evidence and data I presented in my article above; if you can only explain it rather than refute it, then there must be some level of truth to what I’m saying.

95. If my blog was featured on the first page of liberal newspapers as hate speech, I’d make at least $800,000 in increased book sales within 5 days, so that would be great!’

    It explans everything about this blog

     

96. It explans everything about this blog

    It sure does.

97. Haha I’m on my 10+ Russian girls and 99% of them turned to 1-2 dates. Sex was rare, granted their good looks, they can definitely be difficult.

    Russians still lives in the old way of dating (like everything else about them).

    I once had sex with a pretty Russian girl and afterwards she was just mad at me for no reason.

    I spent a whole day with a Ukrainian girl, didn’t buy her anything and I did sleep with her but never saw her again.

    One Russian girl I almost got with had a husband who was allegedly cheating on her and she had made out with and thought she was such a whore for doing that and never texted back, although we had a good time.

    I came upon this site because at the moment I am working on another Russian girl, and when we met I wanted to see if she would pay for her own coffee. Which she did, but told me she broke up with her ex bf who was also Russian, that he could not fulfill her needs. His finances mostly.

    In the beginning Russian women are very difficult, but I also heard once you get past that part and she starts to like you, the game will turn around and she’ll do what it takes to be with you and only you.

    They want proof you’re gonna be a man they can see a future with. And money is something they need to, so they expect it and test how you spend your money on them.

    They aren’t thankful when you buy them something because they expect you to be the man and take care of her and any future financial fiasco.

    Yes it’s pretty stupid if you ask me. But that’s how they’re raised.

    Great post but if you ask me, I say in the beginning don’t take her to fancy places or expensive areas, but just work on her attraction towards you. Don’t get too emotional over her and still play your game w her.

    If she sees you’re weak she will test you. If she sees you can hold your ground maybe she’ll think differently and will hold her interest. Then maybe money won’t be such a concern for her.

    I’m sure there are plenty of hot Russian beauties who will wanna be with you bc she sees you are different.

98. I have had 2 relationships with Russian Girls.

    The first had grown up in Russia but had left to go to University in the Western Europe and had been there since.
    She was very attractive and incredibly sexual (when it suited her). She owned her own freehold house in an expensive suburb after her husband left her.
    She was a professional and had a great job, earning more than me and I have a solid six figure income.
    The first date we had, we went to pay and she said “of course, you are the man, so you will want to pay”… Naturally, I would have (and did), but it was off-putting being having my generosity be presumed and instructed, especially by someone I’d just met…
    Nevertheless, we were in a relationship for almost a year and even travelled to Russia together to visit her family, but it would always be expected and assumed that I would pay for meals and accommodation wherever we went.
    I finally got fed up with this and said we share costs, after all, I still had a Mortgage, she didn’t.
    She was very controlling and not relaxing at all to be around so in the end, after another big argument about her selfishness I left.

    There were some wonderful “pros” about her character and our time together, but her selfishness and meanness with money, despite being well off, was a deal breaker.

    The 2nd was another beautiful Russian (aren’t they all…).
    Similar story, moved to the west in early 20’s,Gorgeous body, dancer (like the 1st) lively, engaging character.
    Again, I paid for all things. This time I was happy to do so, as she didn’t earn much and I did (comparatively).
    She was very direct, and would always say exactly what she thought, which is good and bad, depending on the circumstance.
    Again, very sexual and loving, which is the greatest thing, but in the end she had oppressively neat freak to the point of OCD habits that became life disabling. Like I couldn’t put my suitcase on the bed to pack it, because it had touched the floor (even though she vacuumed it at least once per day). I’m all for tidy, but if I elaborated, and you multiplied that issue with dozens of incidences, you’d see how ridiculous it got.

    Wonderful girl in other aspects, but sadly too many issues from a hard early life.

99.  

    I am smart. Low-genius level IQ.

    What’s your IQ BD? Just curious – I’m an INTJ like yourself and not surprisingly resonate with most everything you say on this blog. I’m 124. Probably “average” for as far as INTJs go. Haha.

100. I don’t ever comment on articles, in fact this is a first. Thank you so much!   This helped me make my decision to stop talking to this to the Russian woman I been seeing for a couple weeks. It started out with romance, laughter, and passionate sex. Then I said one thing of advice or a suggestion to be helpful and she turned into the meanest coldest person I EVER Encountered in my life. She told me I was negative, Lazy, and I complain too much. If you asked every single one of my friends, family members, or even ex gf if I was or did any of them things they would disagree. I thought we had something special then it was like I was dealing with a monster. Never again.

101. Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number One.

102. Just like most bloggers. Delete my comment eh? What’s the matter? Too scared to reply? Afraid you’re gonna lose the argument? I guess that means I won.

103. Yes, your comment full of name calling and personal attacks with zero actual points clearly means you won.

104. You can write what you want. But many European men marry Russian women and they are happy. Im also married to a man from Austria. And there are many couples like that in Vienna. My husband says there is no comparison to European women, who are very selfish and want only money.

105. I read about the first few dates here. I get it. Russian women are high maintenance. I think the same could be said about a lot of women though not just Russian women. I’ve had a few bad experiences with Russian women too but not many. Anyway, I think it’s maybe more about a certain type of woman and maybe Russian women just tend to be that certain type(more than others). I think a lot of women have a sense of entitlement but not all.

106. I love that someone finally caught on to their antics. So many men get caught in their web and suffer, no wonder there’s a drinking problem in Russia

107.  
     You know what’s the problem? It’s just that russian women are smarter than you, and you cannot forgive them their mirroring capacities and natural intelligence. You def must stop dating russian women, cause they make all your sh*t come out and that’s not something that every man can handle. You cannot. You, being a consumer of woman’s energy, body, soul, feelings, expect from them WHAT? Pure love and devotion? Haha (laughing). Love women while staying free you say. So you get exactly what you deserve – being coldly used in return. You thought russian women are stupid? No baby. They sense you with their guts and have fantastic capacity to mirror you. You see not who they are, you see who YOU ARE. You see what are able to see and you get it as boomerang. Also, you surely get on;y specific type of women to agree to date you and you try to generalize only this type calling them all as typical russian. Probably it makes profit to your blog to call all angry men together, refused and used by russian women for being consumers themselves. Seems like you live in your own little world where only likeminded people flock together.
     Don’t date russian women, guys, you don’t deserve them. Those mentally healthy men (healthy enough not to see woman as source of pleasure&fun) with good heart and values make great families with russian women that make all relatives, neighbours, coworkers envy them. To judge others look at yourself first, and don’t forget you attract what you are.

108. You know what’s the problem? It’s just that russian women are smarter than you

     Yes, clearly that’s the problem.

     Man, this comment thread is fun. 🙂

109. All women have issues and the older I get the less patience I have for dealing with it.

110. All women have issues and the older I get the less patience I have for dealing with it.

     Haha yes I can totally relate. Thats why non monogamy is so great you just go to another of your women.

111. Bro you are damn right

     I have been living in Ukraine for 7 years, all what you said is true and but you forgot something, beside all that shit there are another bad thing, Russian girls they are fuckin cheaters, no matter how cool you are or handsome they gonna cheat you and they’ll keep accuse you, so you won’t get chance to surmise her, they are not loyal although you take care of them or treat them good, they will look for new sex partner. They know how to lie, they are very sly, I won’t recommend any good man to marry Russian woman.

     They are only for fuck, nothing else .

112. don’t forget you attract what you are.  – Absolutely, it’s the law of attraction.

     So boys stop complaining about your VERY SUBJECTIVE experience with Russian women, it’s so pathetic!

     When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser!

      

      

113. Well, if your wife takes antidepressants and hits you TWICE , then you are probably a part of the problem. If you date over 100 women and still unable to find the right one, you are a part of the problem. If you are hurting woman during sex and hate that she complains about it, you are definitely a part of the problem. If your first date wants you to be her driver, well.. guess what? No wife, no stable partner, absolutely childish attitude towards women.. Do you still think that you are alpha? Look in the mirror and reconsider.

114. Well, if your wife takes antidepressants and hits you TWICE , then you are probably a part of the problem.

     Not when she’s the only woman in my entire history to do so such a thing.

     If you date over 100 women and still unable to find the right one, you are a part of the problem.

     I have found the right one. We live together and we’re married.

     You really should at least attempt to get your facts straight when you try to insult someone.

     If you are hurting woman during sex and hate that she complains about it, you are definitely a part of the problem.

     Not when its literally 2 or 3 women out of the scores I’ve had sex with.

     If your first date wants you to be her driver, well.. guess what?

     She’s…a Russian!

     No wife,

     Incorrect.

     no stable partner,

     Incorrect. Been with her 3 years now.

     absolutely childish attitude towards women.

     Incorrect. I never lie to women, never tell them what to do, etc, etc.

     Do you still think that you are alpha?

     Obviously.

     Look in the mirror and reconsider.

     Well, there’s definitely one of us who needs to look in the mirror. If someone presents some points on the internet that you can’t refute, and your only option is to try to insult them or troll them, then dude, at least make some sense and use some accurate facts. C’mon. You can do better than that.

     This thread continues to be a great source of entertainment for me! Who’s next, folks? I can do this all day…

115. Comment deleted for violation of Rule Number One. (You can’t make personal attacks here, even if they’re against people with whom we disagree.)

116. Hmm..

     I wonder if this effect carried to former East Germany may have rubbed off into German culture at all or if just reabsorbed into normal Western Culture by now.

     Overall it sounds like if you’re a Beta who enjoys tolerating drama or an Alpha 1.0 who loves drama and fighting these Russian/East European girls maybe the way to go. As for the 2.0’s.. they maybe a problem..

117. Hi there,

     Figured I’d make a few comments, as a Russian woman living in the west. The stories you’ve described (the never ending driving around, perfume scenario, physical abuse…basically every single example)….who are these people? I always hesitate to say I am Russian (my slight accent gives it away) specifically because of stories like that and the entitlement behavior infuriates me and my friends. Out of all the Russian girls that I know and am friends with, there’s only 1 that would fit some of your descriptions. They are certainly out there, but I’d say they are more of an exception. The gift begging I don’t get….wouldn’t someone rather receive a gift because someone thought to get it for you rather than out of pressure. I agree, not many guys out there would take someone shopping on a 1st date (and it’s simply weird), but if a gift on a first date is your thing, then just keep looking for that guy w/o losing your dignity in the first 15 min by begging for it. Don’t get me wrong, I am traditional when it comes to dating. I hate paying for food when I am out with a guy, because to me it’s such a provider/manly thing and it kills my sense of femininity. I need the guy to be a gentleman and to put in an effort (ask me out a few days in advance, plan a date, come pick me up, etc). But after a guy has put in some effort, I am more than happy to cook him a meal, bring him coffee to work, pick up a small gift to make him smile (yeah…gifts are a thing), or run an errand for him. Those women you described are trying to prove their worth through pressure it seems, which is equivalent of repeating “tell me you love me” until the other person breaks, and are just plain disfunctional. Anyway, glad you found someone great, and I hope others will have a chance to date the Russian women that I know.

118. Figured I’d make a few comments, as a Russian woman living in the west.

     In just a couple of sentences, what’s your story? How did you end up in the West?

119. I moved to the states with my parents when I was 14. I am now 34, work as a management consultant for one of the Big 4.

120. That’s totally true. I live in Moscow. Once I asked my female friend why do men have to pay for the dates? And she replied because we already spent our time so they have to appreciate it by paying. I was like ROTFL

121. BD,

     Great post.  Thank you everyone who contributed.  I’ve been inadvertently sleeping with Eastern European women for the past 2 and a half years.  Not on purpose, just coincidence.  And I thought I was missing something….why all this static?  and only from girls from a single part of the world?

     < Took one to the best Halloween party she’s ever seen and she spends all her time at the bar running up a tab with her Russian girlfriend.  The list goes on.  >

     My findings:

     1.If you supremely dominate and spoil them, they will fuck your brains out and be your everything.   Today. But tomorrow….tomorrow, you gotta win again, or you get nothing.  What a crock of shit.  Who has time for that.  BD, good call on all of this.

     Similar to the Rhodesian Ridgeback breed of dog: it will fight for dominance of the household every single day. You can’t lose.  Ever.  Or it now thinks its in charge, despite a lifetime of being your bitch.

     2.They ARE into the BDSM/alternative sex lifestyle.  If I ever date another Russian (unlikely), our first date will be to the Fetish Ball.  Last time I did that, she fell over herself, thinking how lucky she got to find a guy with the same sex-crazy as her.  Use this, as you will.

     3.One was Russian, recently divorced, and THIRTY-EIGHT.  The trifecta of get-the-fuck out.  She epitomized everything BD has said about all 3 things.

     Anyway, BD and everyone here: you’ve helped me.  Helped me not feel alone in my feelings about what I’ve personally witnessed dating Russians.  I wish it wasnt the case:  the good was good. too bad the bad was worse and not remotely worth it.

     Thank you

122. Hi there. Out of curiosity, did any of these women hold professional, reasonably well paying jobs? Enough where they didn’t need to depend on supplementary income from their parents or whoever? Other than a woman who was racking up a bar tab, you didn’t mention the money topic extensively, but others on here did. So I am just wondering whether all those Russian women were self sufficient?

     thank you

123. Mine started her own business here in America with 12 employees.  On her way to financial independence.  Made no sense to be entitled. She worked for her success but didn’t act like it.

     Shame.  She had a lot going for her but couldn’t keep from driving away good people.   If it adds anything to the story, I’m a doctor, so it’s not like I can’t afford a high maintenance girl.

     But why have drama if you don’t have to?

124.  

     Reading this post for the third time.

      

     Damn, you guys are all spot on.

      

     well said, BD.

      

125. Such a shame. Recently came across a concept from Brene Brown that most people are doing the best they can, so I’ll try not to judge. But entitlement and taking advantage of someone’s generosity seem to be a common theme in this post. Among all of my Russian friends (since i am a Russian female, I have quiet a few of them), there isn’t one who would fit that description. There’s one acquaintance who would, and to your point, actually a successful one, and that’s why we’re no longer friends. Otherwise, we are all self sufficient and professional. We do want to date a gentleman, but we’d never take advantage of someone, coerce a man into buying us gifts, or go out with a guy for free dinners. I assumed that maybe everyone on here was dating fresh off the boat women with no real jobs, but at least in your case or the case of my old friend, that’s not it.

     But like i said before, I wouldn’t write off all Russian women. I promise, most of us aren’t trying to find a guy to use and take advantage of, or control for the rest of our lives ( though on this one, I agree, this trend is unfortunately common, thanks to smothering Russian mothers).

     I probably didn’t change anyone’s mind, but figured I’d share my thoughts as a “native”.

126. Hellen,

     At the end of the day, every relationship is an exchange of resources. And from evolutionary perspective, men provide for women who can bare healthy children, which is judged by their beauty. Women entering workforce in the last 50 years, doesn’t change mating strategies that have evolved over thousand of years. I am sure, in a few thousand years, if women become main breadwinners tables will turn, but not at the moment. A woman who has options won’t date a guy who’s not willing to share his resources. That’s true in almost every single culture, with a few exceptions. That’s also true in animal kingdom. Which is different than taking advantage of man’s generousity and outright using him. Which is what a lot of readers were alluding to here.

127. Hellen,

     Look at it this way. The list of women who want to date a cheap guy is pretty short. That’s actually the #1 complaint women have about men. Just like the line of men, especially those with resources, wanting to date less than attractive woman is almost non existent I’d imagine.

128. We do want to date a gentleman,

     That is why Russian women are poison!

     At the end of the day, every relationship is an exchange of resources.

     Pure absolute garbage! Third world logic! The logic of losers and materialists. I love how you’re contradicting everything you said in your first post with these two additional posts!

     And from evolutionary perspective, men provide for women who can bare healthy children,

     From a modern perspective, men provide for the children, but not for the women. Women provide for themselves!

     Women entering workforce in the last 50 years, doesn’t change mating strategies that have evolved over thousand of years.

     You’d be surprised!

     I am sure, in a few thousand years, if women become main breadwinners tables will turn, but not at the moment.

     Then how do you explain my sexually liberated lifestyle and the lifestyle of the owner of this blog, plus countless other men who post here? We’re very satisfied with our sexual relationships (even serious ones), and we don’t give the women shit! Hint: They’re NOT Russians, so they don’t have your garbage thoughts!

     A woman who has options won’t date a guy who’s not willing to share his resources.

     HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     Honey, I don’t think you know the meaning of the term “high sex drive female.” Well, you’re Russian, so I’m not surprised, but we live in a different world than your materialistic ass!

     That’s true in almost every single culture, with a few exceptions.

     Western individualism. Google it!

     Which is different than taking advantage of man’s generousity and outright using him.

     No, it’s not.

     Which is what a lot of readers were alluding to here.

     You are a chameleon! First you make a post with semi-favorable beliefs, and then, once our backs are turned, you stab us and twist the knife with your next two posts, substituting the opposite beliefs. But we’re too smart for the old Russian bait and switch here!

     The list of women who want to date a cheap guy is pretty short.

     Cheap? You’re the one who wants free shit, not us! I’d say that makes you the cheap one.

     And no, it’s not short! It’s actually pretty long, but it requires a woman with a decent to high sex drive, which you clearly don’t have. We also date women non-monogamously, but seriously! And the list of women who wouldn’t mind that is also much longer than you think!

     The sexual monopoly of conservative women like you is OVER! No one’s buying your bullshit or shaming tactics anymore!

     That’s actually the #1 complaint women have about men.

     Replace the word “women” with “gold digging trash” and “men” with “beta males.”

     Saying that “sexual liberation doesn’t exist and you men need to grow up” is the first step in the five steps of female obfuscation. The other four are (2) “okay, they do exist, but they’re cheap sluts,” (3) “they can’t give you what I can” (4) “okay fine, go be with them; I hope you can live with yourself” and (5) FREEDOM!

     Save your lies for mainstream men! They’ll fool no one here!

      

      

129. NM,

     Thank you for your point of view.  That you can identify women you know with the women we’re talking about means you can at least verify what some of us have witnessed, even if your or your friends are not them.

     The Easten Europeans I’ve been with have all been financially secure/independent, if that addresses your question.

     For every one of them, I thought I saw the good person inside.    But their actions were uglier than their potential.

     1. First date: One of them went to a party with me, and then disappeared for 2 1/2 hours.   Showed up drunk, and stuck me with the bill. What’s the point of taking somebody out, if you don’t get to spend any time with them. Next.

     2. I took one of them to a beach house party, and she ended up trying to make out with the guy who showed up in the silver Ferrari.   She denied everything when personally witnessed her trying wrap her legs around him on a lawn chair. Unfortunately for her,  he’s also my co-worker and good friend of 11 years.  Oops.

     Just because I drive a muddy Land Rover Defender, doesn’t mean I want my date trying to “trade up.” .  Next

     3.My personal favorite. One of them said to me, verbatim:

     “if you made more money, I would be nicer to you.”   People still don’t believe me when I tell them that one.

     Made more money?!  Physicians arent millionairres but we’re not poor.   I didn’t even say goodbye to that one.   I made up an excuse about an early call the next morning, drove away, and never returned her calls and texts.    In what culture And from what background, is that acceptable behavior ?

     Maybe I should’ve tried harder and longer… But why bother?  I got options.

     People show you their character  early.

     Either way, it’s a real shame the experience these Russian women are leaving  with men is ruining it for the rest of that country

130. Slc,

     First of all, Defenders are great! Second of all….who are these women??????? Uurgh, so disrespectful and awful. After such experiences I would also cross the entire nation off, plus a few surrounding countries, just to be on the safe side. Hopefully you’ve met someone better, or will soon.

     Speaking of my former friend…I am pretty sure most of her friends are on the same page as her, so they do exist. Ah, just remembered, there is one more that I know. She actually said that she gets headaches from all wines, but French…..yeah, I can’t deal with that. So they are out there, but because they infuriate me and my friends, we don’t hang out, ever. I am still convinced they are the minority, but perhaps there’s a greater saturation of them in bigger cities.

     Thank you for sharing, Slc

131. Hi Jack Outside the Box,

     I have never I insulted you, but that didn’t stop you from throwing accusations and insults my way, as well as assumptions you have no way of knowing. Calling someone gold digging trash, or having garbage thoughts, etc. …I am sure you’re better than that.

     Whatever I was sharing, is substantiated by global research of evolutionary  psychologists in multiple multi-year studies. They weren’t things I was making up or unsubstantiated beliefs. You alluded that your non-monogamous lifestyle works for you. Great, but it does not make it mainstream, and it doesn’t make the more conventional relationships and notions around them untrue.

     Anyway, hope your day is better than what the post suggests.

132. I have never I insulted you,

     Yes you did. With your posts!

     but that didn’t stop you from throwing accusations and insults my way,

     Accusations and insults which you have no answer to, because you know they’re true.

     as well as assumptions you have no way of knowing.

     I have plenty of ways of knowing. I’m not exactly a naïve virgin.

     Calling someone gold digging trash,

     I’ve never called YOU any names. Learn how to read!

     or having garbage thoughts, etc.

     You do.

     …I am sure you’re better than that.

     I’m not.

     Whatever I was sharing, is substantiated by global research of evolutionary  psychologists in multiple multi-year studies.

     Ah yes, mainstream research by a group of blue pill doctors receiving grants from wealthy elites who invented this matrix. Seems legit

     You alluded that your non-monogamous lifestyle works for you. Great, but it does not make it mainstream,

     Never said it did!

     and it doesn’t make the more conventional relationships and notions around them untrue.

     Again, the higher your sex drive is, the more untrue those mainstream notions are!

     Anyway, hope your day is better than what the post suggests.

     And I hope your day is worse, and that your life continues getting progressively worse on multiple fronts!

      

      

133. Slc,

     I just realized that you might be in Miami (you mentioned beach party)? If so….yes, the concentration of those gems is pretty high there. My former friend has a big gf crew there. I go there once or twice year and from that perspective it’s pretty nauseating. I’ve never seen anything like it.  I am in Denver, so it’s significantly toned down here, and I guess everywhere else I’ve been to, other than LA (I am a consultant, so have worked all over the states).

     Anyway, like you said, you have options, no need to put up with someone who lacks decency. Same as me not putting up with an attorney whose idea of a good time was ice cream on a snowy Saturday night, for the 4th week in a row, after me spending quite a bit on his bday.  I’ve got options and can actually buy my own ice cream and do something fun Saturday night.

     As far as your buddy with a Ferrari. It’s s turn off for women looking for something long term, but has the opposite effect on women looking for a fling (research backed), but I am guessing you knew that.

134. NM,

     Well done:

     You have the balls to walk into this lion’s den  and grace under pressure when the lions start roaring.

     Though I came here to share war stories, I’m pleasantly surprised you assuaged my viewpoint.

     While I’m still wary of the Russian woman ( not learning from mistakes is just plain stupid ), in time, I’ll be less quick to judge.

     Today you made a difference –  not by pursuasion, but by example.  Thank you for taking the time to verbally spar and exchange ideas with complete strangers.

135. As far as your buddy with a Ferrari. It’s s turn off for women looking for something long term,

     Oh. My. god!

     I am soooo glad I don’t live in your materialistic world! A car has sexual value? Please! Any woman who would be turned off or turned on (whichever one) by my fucking car is going in my mental garbage can where she belongs.

      

136. Slc,

     Thank you for your kind words! That was very nice of you to share.

     You are absolutely right, learning from past experiences, I’d say, is a solid idea. Hopefully it only takes one or two dates to figure out that actual connection with another human being isn’t what they are after.

     Btw, if you’re ever curious about mating psychology from evolutionary standpoint (I find it fascinating), Love Factually is an excellent read.

      

137. interesting perspectives. will keep it all in mind (all of it, not the good or the bad alone)

      

     had a thought tho, i mean..

     ever considered the whole “bitchy” thing is just some kind of “exciting” and twisted foreplay ? heh. reminded me of that one louis ck skit about the woman who kept blocking his advances and messing with him because she likes it when men get angry and pin her down and fuck her really hard..

     “so..you wanted me to rape you on the off chance that you’re into that sorta thing?” yea insane. something in that vague area of psychosexual nuance, just a thought though.

     also, it seems to me (especially nowadays) that most russian girls (read: people in general) living in the u/s already came from “materialistic” families i.e. relatively wealthy (by russian standards), as it sure as hell isnt cheap to move from russia to, well, anywhere in the west. someone already touched on that tho.

     never dated any russians (yet), but i’ve experienced and witnessed the type of behaviors of the original post so often by so many other groups of people, both directly and indirectly, i mean,

     like i said i havent dated any (yet) personally, and i’m not here to argue anyones experience, it’s just that i’ve witnessed this kind of shit with pretty much exactly everyone (as far as “groups” or “races” of people goes) (and indirectly , although manifested in different ways, by both men and women)

     one of the most fascinating and interesting psychological insights into the human condition is on sites like this, where people essentially are trying to reverse engineer their own 300 million year old or so hardwired reptilian brain programming. i love it. keep writing! everyone!

      

138. I’ve just found ur blog BD and enjoyed reading it today. I can definitely give u and ur followers some great experiences and advice based on them. I get a kick out of hearing bout the Eastern European and Russian women from over there since I’m from the Philadelphia, Pa. area. My experiences r from the 80’s & 90’s – 53 and married w/ 2 children now. I was lucky enough to be with mostly Italian, Greek, Irish, German, Dutch, Polish and Russian ( mix of many) women. Since I was a very good athlete and good looking ( I’ll just say that once – not a bragger – my confidence/ cockiness is partly a product of being a successful goalkeeper in soccer & CF in baseball so I apologize if I come off as brash). I was blessed with some great memories. I am an alpha male who after trial and error figured things out( u never really figure the women out – u just get smarter and more acute on how to enjoy the beautiful lady’s company). It’s a give and take – u always need to look the woman in the eye those 1st few dates when conversing. How she is looking back at ur eyes reveals a ton. My game improved as my confidence improved. Try to simplify things if u guys can and I realize it’s not as easy as it sounds.  A beautiful woman who is fun will be the most amazing experiences u will have in life. BD is very intelligent and I would take a lot of his advice. Too much drama on the 1st date do not bother with the 2nd.

139. My advice would b more of the hands on eye to eye because most of my experience was pre social media. I was just married 2014 so I experienced the social media yet my advantage was growing up in a time where u had to b smooth to hook up especially with a beautiful lady. B confident and learn how to make ur lady friend laugh while at the same time reminding her how nice her hair looks.  Very simple. If it’s mostly a sexual relationship and thats understood between both of u she’ll actually hook u up w/ 1 of her girlfriends who she’s close too( not often but w/ it does happen it’s heaven ). The French Canadian women I’d meet in Cape May, NJ were like that. They were on vacation and if you were a good man they’d share u.  They taught me a lot of what to do in bed.

140. In relation to the subject of Russian women I found them to be enjoyable. I understand a woman in the 90’s isn’t necessarily the same as now. The ones I hooked up with in the Philadelphia area were very cool.  Mostly confident, attractive , strong and very sexual. They were so beautiful to me I’d usually lay on my back and watch them pound on me showing me their breasts & cool looking hair. Drama was included but i guess it’s how u deal w/ it.  Maybe I was lucky w/ the ones I had – I only remember 1 Russian who was a drama queen. Advice- when a woman is drama from the 1st date this is probably the way she is and will always b. I would say this to her “ you r too beautiful to me to have so much stress or anger or drama ( whatever word u use ). A woman as pretty as u should b in a good mood almost all the time. God was very good to u and u should b smiling more often”. If that doesn’t relax and calm her well at least u gave it a good try.  Lol.

141. 1st couple dates advice  –  Tell the lady that she’s smoking hot in a laid back way. Compliment her on her very  nice bubble ass w/ out sounding like a punk.  Tell her u love her chest( don’t call them tits u’ll come off as not cool in the beginning) no matter what size they r.  Most woman r extremely proud of their body so never ever say anything negative bout their chest or butt. It won’t b funny to them and u won’t get laid. Every woman is unique in her own way – it took till I was 40 yrs old to realize what my type was… and I’d still make bad choices. Women can b very slick at fooling u at 1st. Gotta b on ur game and always b assertive. U can be a gentleman and an alpha male at the same time – it is possible. I don’t start a fight w/ another man. I finish it ( fist ).  Wish u all the best of luck and enjoy reading BD’s reply’s. I was reading info on the World Cup since I’ve been watching the matches on tv and Russian women at the WC articles keep appearing. Then I saw the BD blog. BD has a very savy smart approach and is very rational.  B proud of who u our – a woman can sense that. If any of u want any advice just ask me. I’ve been in lots of different situations because of my large # of experiences.

142. Dude,

     Will you please reconsider dating Russians again? That was good reading material. Growing up I always thought Russians were fat, homeless, toothless- and always  waiting in long lines trying to get a loaf of bread. Then Anna Kournakova changed things.

143. I admire ur enthusiasm for BD to re-think dating Russian women Ronald Roosky. I reviewed BD’s reply’s on the subject and I totally understand his predicament. Remember fellas   The same way ur checking out the lady on the 1st meeting she’s checking u out.  We’re all different and the good chemistry I had w/ Russian women doesn’t mean I was a better ladies man then BD. Their was nationalities I didn’t have good chemistry with yet BD might do great with. I found in my experience the Italians, Greeks, Russians and Polish were the best women in bed. These were the ladies I had the most fun with all around and of course it’s all about preference and individual experiences. When I would have a bunch of strange experiences with a specific nationality I wouldn’t keep trying w/ that nationality. Theirs way too many other amazing women out there.

144. Hello,

     I am a Russian woman, who was born and raised in the FSU, but have been living in the US for over 20 years. This was an interesting read and, if you don’t mind, I would like to give a word of advice and maybe even some enlightenment to the audience on this site, since I am familiar with both worlds.

     1. Yes, many Eastern European women come from broken dysfunctional families (just like many American women do), but not all of them are golddigging bi…es. Western men tend to pick model-looking girls to date and then are surprised that these girls act like spoiled brats, it’s because they are! 🙂                                                       Pick a girl who is nice looking but not gorgeous and see the difference.

     2. If you asked a Russian woman on a date she will EXPECT you to pay for dinner and/or drinks – this is a custom, I understand that paying seem so weird to westerners, but it is totally normal in Eastern Europe (not just Russia) so maybe research some cultural differences before jumping to conclusions 🙂                                                                                 If you want to pay half, then let her know it’s a Dutch date and start at the coffee house (works great for any first date anywhere).

     3. Man over 50 searching for a model wife in her 20’s – let’s be realistic: you want a trophy wife and she wants a sugar daddy (if she marries you). So no reason to bitch, you each got what you wanted. There will be no love (extremely rare exceptions not counted), all this is ever going to be is a business arrangement. If you want a real wife and life partner look for someone closer to your age, forget about your teenage wet dreams, AND BE REALISTIC.

     4. To the author: I am sorry you had such bad experiences.

     To all: keep in mind that FSU changed A LOT. People are watching YouTube and popular American shows, including everything stupid ever created about bling-bling lifestyle. I believe this is where certain expectations come into young girls minds.                                                But in general, women are not as desperate as they were in the 1990s when they were willing to marry almost anyone just to escape economic collapse; nowadays, many have successful careers, businesses, money of their own. So adjust your expectations when dealing with them (unless you’re going on a sexcapade, then don’t read anything I’ve written) or switch to women from developing countries if you’re looking for quiet submissive wife.

     And ask questions. What are the girl’s expectations on the first date?

     You can tell a lot just by asking a couple of questions. You may not want to go on the date with her if she demands you buy her $150 perfume (what a ridiculous idea! I can’t believe that woman! :))

145. Kristina – Like many other female commenters here, you’re describing why Russian women are like this. I’m just stating that they are like this, and thus should be avoided. Why they’re doing it is irrelevant to me and most of my readers.

146. You guys, want to get a beautiful woman. But not just a beautiful, an extraordinary gorgeous one. Let her be Russian. Also she should be well breed, well educated, polite, sexy, wealthy, healthy. She should offer herself with no second thought to you. And what are you like? Do you deserve these girls? Why do you speak of them like if they are things? They are people. Topic starter made me sincerely lough. He broke up with this because she sounded loud. He broke up with that because she said something😂😂😂 And you should be Prince  William, am I right?😉

147. Uggi – I’d say u r taking this blog way too serious. As I said in a previous comment a beautiful woman that is fun are the most enjoyable experiences in life.  Period.  BD doesn’t talk about women as things. He views things exactly like i did when I was dating different women – their is tons of beautiful women in the world.  Life is very very short. I’m 53 and it has just flown by amazingly fast. If a woman is loud , obnoxious and a drama queen their is no reason to take her on another date. This blog has grown men talking about beautiful women to date and sharing r different experiences from r past.  I admire BD and I envy how he doesn’t waste time with bull crap. Prince William looks like he got beat with an ugly stick for a week strait so why u brought him up I have no idea.  When I was a student in college in the mid-late 80’s I had a class in Demography. A beautiful young lady was r professor and she told the entire class this 1 day. “ For multiple reasons ( and she told us all of them ) you will see a pendulum swing where is you’ll notice more and more the population of men vs women will change from 50/50 towards 53/47. Much more women then men.  Guess what ?   She was exactly right. When I was a young man and going out to clubs their was more men then women almost every time I went out – major competition and u had to b smooth and strong. Not the case now and w/ all the many dating sites now and much more accessibility to more women further away from where u live it’s a whole new world now compared to my youth. Their is more available beautiful women out there then ever before – real simple. So if BD is experiencing a woman who is loud, strange or too demanding why the heck would he continue w/ her.  So Uggi u can attempt to laugh at how BD views things. I admire him big time. It’s the best time in history right now to b dating different women. Maybe u can’t handle grown men discussing beautiful grown women. It’s called human nature. In the old days u couldn’t b as picky on which woman to date. Today u have tons of choices.  It’s called heaven Uggi.  If a woman wants a good man now she has to compete for him.

148. To Dew Man

     So if BD is experiencing a woman who is loud, strange or too demanding why the heck would he continue w/ her

     I didn’t suggest in any way to keep such a bitch. I wanna just stress that it can be a person of any nationality and any gender. Not exactly Russian women. My Italian friend couldn’t  get rid of his loud Italian wife for years.

      

     When I was a student in college in the mid-late 80’s I had a class in Demography.

      

     So what? Where do you go with this, man? Is it such a good idea to throw feaces at every Russian girl, just because there are more males than females?

     Maybe u can’t handle grown men discussing beautiful grown women.

     I can, man. I discuss and I am being discussed. But I don’t  say that all let’s say Italians have sex with you sitting half body under their mother’s skirt. Either as I don’t  say that all Germans are greedy and French don’t shave😄 people are different

      

     If a woman wants a good man now she has to compete for him.

     You are hilarious, sweetheart. While you think that good women compete for  you, real good women choose among you the best option as you compete. Sometimes really severely. Or how to explain the vivid fact that you will do whatever it takes to get a woman that you really want? 😊 well, if she’s good.  One thing I can’t agree more with you: it’s heaven. Damn, you’re right!

      

      

      

149. Uggi – If u had actually read this blog some before u make dumb comments u might not have made ur comments.  I’m the 1 that said I had very enjoyable times w/ Russian women. I said that we r all different – that’s it’s all bout chemistry   How we interact w/ each other. Throwing feces on Russian women ?  All I did in my previous posts was compliment Russian women. I’m married w/ 2 beautiful children w/ I stated before. I noticed the blog during the World Cup last month w/ reading bout Russian women of the World Cup. My point was BD is dating different women during a great time right now. I joined the blog temporarily to give advice and knowledge from my experiences in the past to the young men on this blog like a good big brother would do. The Demography professors point back then was that “ B careful what u wish for cause women r gonna b taking over in the future population wise “. To a man why would that not b heaven ?  My parents raised 7 boys & a girl and put all 8 of us thru college.  Raised us to treat women w/ class and dignity.  Always open the car door for them. Never put a hand on a woman . B extremely respectful to her parents etc….. Instead of just viewing the blog subject and making stupid comments read what we’ve written next time Uggi. I was complimenting Russian Women in my posts. Probably been w/ bout 150 women before getting married- I was simply giving some info to my fellow readers cause as u get older that’s what u do. Let others sponge off ur past events. Different nationalitys r different.  In fact I’d b the exact man to know that 1st hand cause in the Philadelphia area growing up it’s a melting pot just like New York. Looking back at it now I realize I was really lucky to have been able to grow up where I could date all these different beautiful women from different ethnicities. The greatest gift from god ( besides my kids ) is all the smoking hot gorgeous women he’s put on this earth. I didn’t realize it w/ I was young cause u just assume this is normal & the way it’s supposed to b w/ ur in ur 20’s & 30’s. I now understand that I was very fortunate back then.  BD has it made in the shade right now as we used to say.

150. You can surely call my comments stupid, call them whatever you like. I have a neighbour, who is the same age as you are. He loves to boast about the number of women he has slept with or dated. Just like you did. That’s always so adorable when a grandpa acts like this:) I didn’t ask, btw.

     Reading the blog? I am not crazy. It suits better for men, who experience difficulties with the opposite sex. There’s an artical called Don’t hold her purse😂 or whatever. How do you like the idea? That’s fantastically insane. Men, don’t be afraid of women! They won’t turn you into a needy impotent! Even if they colour you nails!😂

      

151. R u a comedian Uggi ?  Ur talking to a Goalkeeper. A centerfielder w/ a gun of an arm. A man that’s yet to meet a man in person that can take me in a fist fight. A ladies man in my youth cause god is good. Ur barking up the wrong tree. Nobody on this blog is afraid of women. We r sharing experiences so u don’t end up w/ the wrong women…. Like u Uggi.   BD doesn’t want a blog w/ immature idiotic comments that sound like their coming from a drunk.    If the devil was standing right next to me I’d laugh at him, spit on him, then take a piss on him.  Ur telling an Irishman he’s afraid of women ?  That’s like telling me I don’t like eating steak or king crab. I’m gonna take a break from the blog – I’m glad I got to share some of my experiences w/ BD & his readers.   U r very cool BD and wish u the best always in the future   Hey Uggi –    Dewme , Dewgoo and Dew the Dew we’re some of the nicknames women had for me growing up…. that’s how much I fear women. I love women and now I love my wife     Take it easy fellas and always b confident   If a miserable woman joins ur blog and attempts to rag on a group of grown men and women  having normal adult conversation handle it like I used to    I would say this to a woman like her pre- social media   “ If u weren’t so ugly on the inside u wouldn’t come off as so ugly on the outside “.              Not every woman can look like Ann Margaret, Sophia Loren, Raquel Welch , Ursula Andress,   Barbara Eden, Cheryl Ladd, Adrienne Barbeau, Natalie Wood or a Kelly Brook ( a woman more current).  But if u can find a woman who’s attractive and fun then u have found a great woman.    Later

      

      

      

152. OMG, why are you so offended? Take it easy! You are a goalkeeper. And I am a beekeeper.

153. Now ur being silly  Uggi. As u get older all u have more and more r memories. I only mentioned an estimate of women once. I’ll never ever apologize for being a good looking American Irishman w/ dark brown hair & blue eyes who is athletic. The funny part Uggi is w/ I was single u could have been bouncing on me while critiquing me at the same time. I enjoyed Russian women. When they’d get all emotional w/ me id say. Young lady – how bout I lay on my back & u take out all ur stress on me the fun way. I’d say that to any women I was with.  Not just Russian women. BD doesn’t want this sort of talk Uggi.  U can call me Grandpa if it makes u feel good Uggi.  I have very young kids so not even close to that stage yet.  The funny part is ud probably like me a lot Uggi if u knew me. Women liked me cause I’m a gentleman who has 0 fear.   When a punk bitch dude attempts to b a smart ass w/ me at a bar I just stare at him.  Glare at him & stay silent.  If it continues I walk up to him and put my nose in front of his and stay silent looking strait into his eyes. Another man knows w/ he’s gonna lose in a fist fight usually before it begins. Usually the other man would turn around and walk away from me. In the Philly area tho it’s not always gonna end like that. I’d let them take the 1st swing.  Then they’d find out what it’s like to fight an athletic Irishman. I’m a very young 53 by the way.  Lol.  Guarantee u would have liked me Uggi. If a man is not confident and a bit cocky he’s not a good goalkeeper or centerfielder.  U can blame it on that Uggi as to why I come off the way I do. Boasting a little is fun.  During a soccer match or baseball game u could hear my mouth a mile away.  The gentleman in me then would completely vanish. My English language would then turn into an alien/ cursing / Philly slang.  My high school & college buddies laugh bout it now. Take it easy Uggi. In all fairness to u i bet ur a pretty Russian woman  who saw the topic and assumed it was a blog critiquing Russians. Not me.  Russian women were always very cool to me. Ur like the Irish. Proud & strong.  B cool.

154. Uggi if u have ever known a goalie we do have a few screws loose in r head. We r definitely different. Not offended at all. U just brought my Irish out some that’s all. I bet I’d like u if i met u.    No big deal.  I’m bout to let the single forum continue as it should.  I’m the bonehead that got married. Lol. I do love my wife. I was just giving a few more pointers on how a grown man handles things to my fellow readers. I like ur name Uggi. I shouldn’t have called u stupid cause I don’t even know u. And I don’t like talking that way to a woman. It’s not cool and Im not about that. I bet ur a tiger in bed and beautiful woman.    Dew

155. @ BlackDragon –  You totally hit the mark dude! Russian women are the most hysterical, needy and selfish bitches ever encountered. All they dream about is money and what you can do for them. They’re a total pathetic package. AVOID THEM LIKE THE PLAGUE.

     P.S. If you can’t resist and still want to have a good time with them, fine that’s great! Just don’t make it look like you want anything more then that. Like anything long term. Otherwise, they’ll use that against you, as if they’ve snagged someone for their abuse. Anything long term and you’re screwed. They’ll begin to think they have the right to manipulate you further with their sad and childish mind games.

156. Russian women are considered as very beautiful and they are desired despite of everything said above. They are spoilt by Russian men’s attention and all attention they get while travelling and working around the world. They don’t agree to have one night stands in most cases cause of the cultural difference, mentality and even religion in a way. And if you didn’t tell lies, they would know that all you are looking for is sex and they would not probably agree to this and you wouldn’t have to deal with their hysterical behaviour. So be honest and everything will be just fine. American women are exactly like that. They just don’t have a choice. Besides, what kind of women do we discuss here? Educated rich Russian ladies don’t  behave like sluts. And if you are discussing sluts here, does nationality really matter? There’s plenty of American sluts ready to blow you for a bowl of spaghetti😉 in this case why do you even think about Russian? They are too far, too demanding and too needy😀

157. Everyone would probably agree that asking to buy a toilet paper, a bird cage, a towel, perfume or a broom is absolutely crazy not even on the first date. But crazy people are everywhere. And they are of different nationalities. If you are older that 30, you have a lot of crazy stories about people in general.

158. There’s plenty of American sluts ready to blow you for a bowl of spaghetti

     Then they are asexual prostitutes, not sluts. Nothing non-sexual, like spaghetti, can be her price. The price she demands for her vagina should be my penis. Sluts want an equal and even exchange. Non-sluts are female supremacists who want non-sexual things (like spaghetti) in return, because they think their genitals are, for some reason, more valuable than mine.

      

159. U don’t give American women much credit Uggi.  Bowl of Spaghetti ?

160. I went out on a date with my first russian girl sunday. She turned out to be the epitome of a walking oxymoron. She was drunk when i picked her up. Wanted the finest dinner and of course losts and lots of expensive vodka drinks. She brings up her birthday comming up hinting at presents. She was rude as heck at dinner ( extremely rude and talked smake to me while im buying her food, says nobody should judge her but she judged everyone and everything- including me- first date- like were married in some dysfunctional relationship for years. End of night went to the hotel. She get naked- were making out ( shes not very good st it either) and lets me play with her naked body but then wont have sex and and then trash talks me saying im a fag for wanting sex on first date?   so i grab my cigar and wallet (now wondering if shes gonna steal my cash when im downstairs) to smoke cause i was not dighing this psycho drunk trash talking hottie and then she flips out and threatens to call the cops and say i raped her… WTF! Over going to smoke lesving her alone in the room for a few minutes. I asked if she would like me to get her an uber home ( im so annoyed at this point of listening to her – i dont let people talk to me like this) and she gets even more beligerant. Then she calms down when i said id drive her home and took pride that she pissed me off by threatening me- like she gets off on it. She goes- your no man your gay and i dont have sex for drinks and dinner. So why was she naked on the bed making out with me? I guess shes a gold digger, potty mouth tease? Why would i ever go on a second date. You cant do that. Espically when you get threatened shes gonna try and lock u up cause you need a smoke break… I thought my ex wife was nuts but this was like a female dude. If all russian girls are this way that sucks.

161. She sounds exceptionally dumb. Maybe don’t go out with dumb girls next time, Russian or otherwise. And no, we’re not all the same. Some of us have corporate jobs working 60hr weeks, paying for everything we own, all the while looking hot.

162. Thanks for the positive feedback Natalia.

163. Russian women are indeed something. I’m often there in various cities. If a Russian girl goes out with a Russian guy and he’s just gotten paid, even if he hasn’t paid his rent, she feels that he should spend every cent on her for the date. Doesn’t matter if he can’t eat for the rest of the month.

     Remember that many, many men were sent to the gulag leaving the women at home. They grew to be tough survivors in the hellhole of communism and extremely materialistic. Russia is thought of as a patriarchal country, but in the home the wife rules, and you’d better believe it. Russian divorce rates are extremely high. Marriages typically don’t last much longer than 2-3 years, and men file for over 70% of the divorces. Can’t take it any more, I guess.

     On the other side, Russian men tend to be alcoholics and die young – by 55 or so. Most don’t want to work, and expect the wife or girlfriend to work and support them and their single child.

     Girls will spend every dime they can get on cosmetics and clothing. Due to sanctions and the “financial crisis” money is harder to come by now than it was in the mid-2000’s. Education was free in the Soviet Union, but now higher education must be paid for, and women are degree hounds even if they will never use it. Instead of Women’s Studies they study Economics.

     Russian girls will always push for more stuff – cosmetics, clothing, rent, mobile phone, tuition, whatever. They never seem to have enough money. So if you date a Russian girl she is going to expect that you will pay for some of these, if not all. How beta you are determines how much she can get out of you.

     Russian girls on the dating sites are a mixture of prostitutes and nice girls looking for a relationship. If you just want to cut to the chase, and unless you are going to practice your game and have a lot of time to pursue them, I’ve found this works best. Look at girls on the website you like and then write them saying something like, “I want to meet with you, let’s agree.” They can read between the lines and will indicate interest or not. Maybe 10% will answer (I’m in my 60’s and write girls 18-22 who are 7+, most 8+).

     Some will say, “I’m not a prostitute.” The response is “Of course not, I only date nice girls. Let’s get together.” More often than not she’ll respond with, “What will you give me.” Note, these are decent Russian girls either in school or working. Going price for a nice girl is about 7-8000 rubles for 2 hours. You have to have a tight frame with them or they’ll try to get more while with you.

     I think they all go to the same school. When the girl comes over, first thing is she’s going to head for the shower to get clean for you. Many don’t want to kiss, but will if your game is good. Then they will suck you, and go for whatever position you want. Sucking dick seems to be a Russian girls national past time. Russian guys seem to be big into anal, and a lot of girls will do it if you want it. Most girls also like kuni.

     I’ve dated and fucked many Russian girls from students to doctors, to lawyers, to policewomen, military, etc. They always really do need money for rent, food and necessities plus the cosmetics, etc.

     And Russian girls really do believe that the man should enjoy himself in sex, and that it is their job to provide pleasure. Give them some also and they’ll love you for it.

     Want to see if the girl is pretending to be feminine and want to see if she is submissive in sex before getting into it? After their shower they will come out wrapped in a towel (you’re supposed to take it off) and after I kiss and fondle her I’ll simply point to the floor. They all seem to know what that means, they get down on their knees and start sucking. If she won’t then you have a bitch on your hands.

     During the two hours they are there you can fuck them as often as you want. Each time they will go to the shower and re-clean themselves for you. You can talk to them, most speak a little English, and there is always the phone translator, take breaks in between, etc. When you are done just let them know and they’ll leave.

     BIggest tell as to whether you have a decent girl or a prostitute is the prostitute always wants money up front. Decent girls will trust you to give them what you promised at the end. Don’t hand it to them, especially after dark – its some kind of Russian taboo – lay it on the table and say this is for you, your gift, a present, or some such.

     I’ve had numerous girls tell me that everything was great and they appreciated meeting me. Virtually all are up for further meetings. Want them to go places with you. I’ve taken girls to Thailand for a couple weeks. I pay for the trip, reasonable meals if its not a  once price resort, and maybe one or two not expensive tourism things. I’m  not a tourist. They provide pleasant company and sex as often as I want. I’ve told girls who want a lot of tourism that sure they can go in the heat of the afternoon, but they have to pay for their tourism. Otherwise, enjoy the beach.

     I spend several weeks every year in Russia on business and have developed this method for fast accurate lays with no drama and no problems. How to prevent oneitis, yeah I did that once BlackDragon is right about that, always be fucking at least 3 or more girls. It really does prevent emotional bonding.

     But be willing to say no. In fact a Russian professional woman told me that with Russian girls you must be willing to say no. And not to spend anything on them unless I really wanted to. Good advice.

     If you have the time, or want the practice, by all means try game and see what you can pull. In my late 60’s this method gets me really pretty 18-22 year old girls without drama.

     Be aware that their morality is not ours. If they tell you a lie and you believe it, they say that is your fault that you believed them. The onus is on the believer not the teller.

164. Wish I read your blog before dating my Russian gf.she is a drunk I must say for the last 10 month it’s drama and always abusive words！And been trying to leave her but not working……

165. Hate myself now. Wish I read your blog before dating my Russian gf.she is a drunk I must say for the last 10 month it’s drama and always abusive words！And been trying to break it off  with nothing seems to work.

166. been trying to break it off  with nothing seems to work.

     You don’t “try” to break up with a woman. You just do it.

167. I am living in a FSU country for 8 years now and can only tell that you are right in some aspects and wrong in others.

     FSU women are not all the same. Estonian (ethnic) and Latvian (ethnic) are for example much more similar to Scandinavian women than to Russian women and that I think also regarding their dating behaviour. The only exception to that rule is that they will expect mostly that you pay the bill at the first date. Despite that I know quite a few women in Estonia and Latvia and they are superkind, not more materialistic than the Central European ones and very down to earth.

     About Russian (ethnic) and Ukrainian women I cant tell the same. They really seem to be more materialistic in average.

     Some advantages I want to tell you as well: FSU women in general tend to be more tolerant about height. I am 5’9” but very good looking (even Central European women tell that). But my height was often a matter of concern for women taller than 5’6”. In FSU countries even taller women than me did date me without a problem, in Germany for example that is very rare. Another advantage is that FSU women are really into dominant men, so if you are that kind you will have  a lot of fun. If you are a typical Beta go and look for some Thai/Philippine girly.. .But that is not my cup of tea.

168. Oh I’m sorry about all this crazy women… Yes, I see such types of girls like that, but I think they disgrace us. For example, I’m absolutely another woman. 28 years old, have a job, not smoking and drinking alcohol at all, have a very long hair, never was married, haven’t children, like to read and to walk so much and come to bed at 11 p.m. – that’s my portrait. I am shy to take presents, I don’t like to seat in a car, I better walk to a place. It’s uncomfortable for me to spend another man’s money. All of my life I live in a part of Russia called Siberia. But here I’m the exception proves the rule, too =-)

169. I am going to leave some of my thoughts here..

     man I have many of them.

     1). Western men like dating Russian women very much and tend to go to their country etc. to merry a wife or just have sex etc. first of all, I would like to know, how old were you when you were dating 22-25 years old girls? Many foreigners, especially from the USA like only young girls so much.. it’s very interesting, because most men are old and they want young women who would do everything for them.

     2). Why do you think they want you to pay for them ? (meals, clothes etc. but I am not talking about spoiled brats, like the one who wants perfumes all the time). In Russia/Ukraine people, especially women are paid so low.. 300$ per month if you are lucky. And you have to pay for food, apartment. You have to save money for 3-5 months to buy shoes let alone something else. (Not talking about businesses). Men are paid more than women there, and equal rights are only written on paper. So a man is expected to pay for her, just because she has no money to date you.

     3). Many Americans etc. love coming here and just think any girl is a prostitute or will do whatever you want just to be with you, a foreigner. So he is 40-60,meanwhile she is 22 at least, and of course not more than 30 (men consider such women rotten I guess, with too many problems). So you are 40, came here for sex, and you think all Russian girls wet themselves because you are a foreigner? We too have standards.

     4). It costs a lot to be beautiful, and with the salary there-it’s impossible unless you are young and have natural beauty. But women who care about their looks, nails, shape of the body, hair, make up etc. expect you to pay for their beauty. You want woman to be so damn sexy and beautiful??? You pay for it. You don’t wanna pay? – go for less attractive women, who are not that beautiful.

     5). Is it hard to date women of your own kind? If you don’t like Russian women and their character, then date women in your country. It’s not that hard.

     6). if you want to date a beautiful girl with nails, make up etc. don’t expect her to pay for herself. Because, again, if you want the beauty of the world,there is always a price.

     7). So why Russian women expect YOU to pay for them? They suffered from previous relationships where they were tremendously abused, neglected, beaten up, and they won’t date another guy just to have it for free. They don’t know you, and obviously if they live on 300$ per month, and it’s hard to buy food already, they won’t date you just to spend more money and have sex with a foreigner who will leave them all the same.

      

170. Hello, cute strange men! I accidentally came to this page, practicing the language. I almost completely agree with all the comments about Russian women)))). And I am Russian. Yes, I agree, I would like to be different. But you will not be indignant that any person from Burkina_Faso does not know what to do with bidet … To great chagrin, we are a product of the country where we live and grow. A poor, poor country for the majority of the population brings up girls without giving them a future (there is no job that is well-paid, there is no good education). All that girls see from childhood —- mom, who tells her dad: go, look for where to make money. Well, then think further, though,))))) I doubt, it seems, YOU have only animal instinct! I emphasize, the author is right !!! We are glad to be different, but the conditions of survival laid it)))))))

171. You’ve obviously had more experience with Russian women than I have, but from my experience with them (which, strangely enough, has not been with Russian women in the USA or Russian women in Russia but rather with Russian women living in East Asia), the secret to being happy with a Russian girl (again, using your definition of Russian) is to find one from a small town and not from some place like Kiev, Moscow or St. Petersburg. They tend to be less demanding than their metropolitan counterparts and, unlike most Western women these days, are exceedingly appreciative of just a little bit of old-fashioned chivalry.

172. I was married to a Kyrgyzstan women she was born and raised in America. It’s the most poisonous relationship I was ever in! After our divorce I’m the most happiest guy in the world! Although the sex was amazing and she put out for me every night! Also did I mention super hot! Super hot! Like a model! That’s the only reason why I put up with her and married her. But after we got married her parents sold the house and moved in with us! That turned me into a raging alcoholic! I couldn’t handle it! After the divorce I needed therapy! I could go on and on about it all. But it’s over and I’m alive! I will never marry another Russian women again! I might date one to get some of that sweet ass but no thanks to the marriage part! Btw I’m Russian myself.

173. Not sure if Hungary would be counted as part of the FSU but most certainly westerners would count Hungary into Eastern Europe. Hungary also had Russian occupation… I lived in the UK for 6 years and I’m sure it’s not exactly like the US but I saw and interacted with British girls. I also interacted with American girls in Budapest. Suffice to say I’d never want to have British or American MLTR. Most of the western girls are so dumb, they don’t even know how to cook or be nice or respectful. I’m not saying that all Eastern Europen girls are nice but certainly nicer and more respectful than their Western counterparts. The Western girl’s entitlement can’t be competed with. They are the most feminist entitled bitches. Never dated a real FSU girl, so I can’t comment on that. Just my two cents from the perspective from someone in Eastern Europe, most men here would never want to date a Western girl including British or American. To fuck them, yes, but not MLTR.

174. Interesting read,

     I agree with the points of the article, but, problem is is that you’re dating wrong girls, plus it has a lot to do with the way you look at things – has nothing to do with alphas.

     i grew up there, but live in an English speaking country for a long time. Let me tell you, with any Russian girl, I click without trying. With everyone else I have to turn down a notch, because they find my behaviour too out there or direct.

     at the end of the day, every culture programs different mentality, and you will never be able to wipe that program, you can only try to adjust. If you get close to a girl it’s not because you’re that good, it’s because they let you, and you can’t get close to someone if you don’t know where they come from mentally.

      

175. I am Russian and can confirm that everything that you described in the article is true.

     BUT looks like they all were not interested in a long term relationship with you.

     Otherwise, they were showing you a really attractive “demo version” of Russian women.  And only after you fall to some type of relationship (sometimes after years, depends how interested they are) they show everything that you described. So, you got off easy.  🙂

      

176. I wanted to revisit this article, as since it was written, I’ve had sizable experience dating Russian women, and I must say, that when I 1st read the article, I found it interesting, yet I was incredulous as to the idea of really phasing out an entire category of women. But lemme tell ya, I’m about ready to cut their asses out as well. Through genuine experience I was able to actually verify the info in this article. The snarky-ass princessy entitlement, and quasi-scammer bullshit they pull is unbelievable.