15 Sep “There’s this one girl…”
As the readership of this blog continues to grow, I’m getting more people posting comments on articles all over the blog, which is great. The problem is there’s been a noticeable upswing in the number of guys who are asking “there’s this one girl” questions. These questions always go like this:
Hey BD, there’s this one girl I’m currently dating / trying to have sex with. I did X and she did Y. What should I do now? What would you do? Can I salvage this?
For many years, “there’s this one girl” questions were off-limits on PUA forums. There was a very good reason for this. Taking the time to ask a question about that One Girl™ shows several things about you:
1. You’re not working with enough girls. As always, you should always be focusing on many girls, not just one at a time, or even a few at a time. Even if you have more than one woman on your radar, you probably don’t have enough.
2. You’re outcome dependent, and that’s all kinds of bad. Remember that outcome independent means you have objectives, but that you don’t care at all about any one woman or any one interaction, as I explain here.
3. You’re possibly getting a little oneitis. Or a lot.
4. It puts the frame and focus on this one girl instead of you, your skill set, and your objectives.
Just look at these two questions:
“How do I get this girl?”
vs.
“How do I get better at getting girls?”
The second question is a great question, and one you should focus on. The first question is a horrible question and one you should always avoid.
But wait a minute, BD. If I ask a question about how to get this one girl, that might help my skills with the next girl.
Yeeeeeahhh…that’s what you might think, but as a dating content provider with eight years of experience, I can tell you for a fact that’s not what normally happens. This leads into the fifth reason these questions are a bad idea…
5. Focusing on “there’s this one girl” questions encourages the asking of stupid questions.
All the time, I will get “there’s this one girl” questions like, “Hey BD, I was texting this girl to set up the first date, but then she said she didn’t like X and went radio silent. What should I do? How do I turn this around?”
The answer is, you text her one more time, pitch the date one more time, and if she says no you hard next her and move to the next woman on the list, you dumbass. Did you really have to ask such a stupid question? Because you’re asking a “there’s this one girl” question, the answer is yes, you had to ask a stupid question, because your focus is on her when it should be on you.
So as of right now, I will no longer answer any comments on this blog containing a “there’s this one girl” question. I will allow them here, and other commenters can help you if they wish, but if you’re asking me about what to do about one particular girl, I won’t be responding (other than perhaps posting a link to the article you’re now reading).
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Instead, here’s what you should do:
1. Buy my main real life (not online) dating book located here. It goes though the entire process of zero to sex, step-by-step and works very well.
2. Read this post on avoiding oneitis and this post on outcome independence, because you probably have at least a little trouble in both areas.
3. If you’re in a relationship, read this post on de facto monogamy, since that’s probably what you’re either doing or at least heading for (which is bad).
4. Scan through the archive of this blog to see if any of the topics apply to your situation. Also check out the New Here page for a decent summary of dating technique topics.
5. If you still need help, check out my coaching services and I can help you personally.
Common Answers to “There’s This One Girl” Questions
Based on most of the “there’s this one girl” questions I’ve seen (and I’ve seen a lot), one of these answers below is the answer to your question, or will at least help you.
1. Wait 24 hours, text her again, have a nice and brief little conversation, pitch the date again, and if she still balks, hard next her ass and move on to the next woman. (This, seriously, is the answer to most “there’s this one girl” questions.)
2. If it’s regarding someone you’re already having sex with, wait two or three days, text her again like nothing happened, and pitch a meetup. If she says no, soft next her for at least a week. If she says yes, do not discuss whatever you were discussing earlier. If she tries, tell her you don’t want to talk about it. If she pushes it, soft next her.
3. If you haven’t had sex with her at least twice, your odds of recovering from any problem during the pickup / dating / seduction phase are low, usually 15% or less, so set your expectations accordingly. This is why you must focus on many women at a time instead of just one or a few.
4. Remember that if you haven’t had sex with her at least twice, you are not in a relationship yet, so none of the relationship rules (like seeing her once a week) or techniques (like soft nexting) will work or apply here. Way too many of you mix up pickup techniques with relationship techniques. No! These are two very different things. If you haven’t had sex with her twice yet, you’re still in dating/pickup mode, not relationship management mode.
5. Most importantly: Get your ass out there and get more women! If you’re in dating/pickup mode you should never be working on less than 10 women at a time. If you’re in relationship mode, you should never be having sex with less than two women, ideally three or four women, every 30 days. If your numbers are less than any of these, you’re in for oneitis, outcome dependence, drama, problems, reduced sex, and betaization. The fact you’re asking a “there’s this one girl” question means you’re already falling into that trap. Stop being a lazy pussy, snap out of it, and get back out there!
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Leave your comment below, but be sure to follow the Five Simple Rules.
Will
Posted at 05:14 am, 15th September 2016De facto monogamy could definitely be a podcast as part of the “how to set up an OLTR” over on SMIC .
Anon.
Posted at 06:01 am, 15th September 2016Also how an anyone answer a question of this type without knowing all the specifics? Without having caught hints such as, say, her relationship with her father?
For example, as recently as the day before yesterday I got into a long-winded argument (on IM) with a girl, stemming from her refusal to have sex the day before, which is a big no-no by the commonly established standards of applied female psychology. (I thought it was likely over and wanted to collect some data points.) But it ended in her asking whether she can spend the next night at my place. Time will tell whether that results in a healthy relationship. (I highly doubt my logical arguments resulted in her changing her mind. I think what did it was my very visible readiness to end the relationship.) So who knows what would work in a given case and what wouldn’t.
My frame when figuring out what to do with a particular girl is that her level of attraction to me is already fixed, there are no reliable ways of raising that level. Why doesn’t she do something I desire? Either she can’t, or she doesn’t want to. If she can’t, I should either help her or wait for her to deal with the problem. But if she doesn’t want to do it… why would I be in a relationship with someone whose attraction to me is insufficient to do something that’s essential to me?
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 07:05 am, 15th September 2016Hey, actually, there’s this one girl… No but seriously. Interested in input on this from any readers of this blog.
One of my 2 side girls (had been seeing her for about 7-8 months) has basically disappeared. Pitched a few meetups, 2 or 3 over the time span of about a month and she wasn’t available. Now haven’t seen her in about 7 weeks. Interestingly side girl number 1 did this same thing for a few months and it was during that time I met side girl number 2.
We’d been in touch over text and kept up to date in that time, but after my last meet pitch she basically said she was really sorry she’s been so busy and she’ll get in touch when she’s free again, that was about 3 weeks ago, so I have been no contact with her since.
Definitely a busy time in her life, final semester, alot of personal stuff going on with family etc. Last time we met up she’d basically said she wanted to keep seeing me during this busy time but would be cutting the other 2 (Alpha 2.0’s) she’d been seeing off, but I guess she changed her mind.
From her perspective I believe she’s still ‘single’ but I’m assuming I’ve basically been dropped from her roster due to lack of time, and she’s seeing the other 2 guys.
So I’ve been dating around to replace her obviously. However I’m wondering what the input is from people here in these situations:
-How often do you get girls that just kind of disappear after several months where it’s really up in the air?
-How often do you see girls just drop you off a ‘roster’ for other Alpha 2.0’s due to lack of time/too many other guys in their life as opposed to the usual LSNFTE or clear ‘break ups’?
– How often do they come back into your life at some point in the future?
– In a situation such as this do you just continue with no contact and see if they do contact you again when they’re more available, or should you ping text them at all after some time to see whats going on with them?
Joelsuf
Posted at 07:52 am, 15th September 2016This is gold! I should have done this with the last chick I had sex with! I knew I hit her up too early lol. Meh, I know better now I suppose. The hunt continues (does it ever really end? lol). Why not talk about what happened earlier though? Any reason for that? Just curious really.
Anon.
Posted at 09:17 am, 15th September 2016Why not talk? If she said no, and then she said yes, all that means is she felt like saying no and then she felt like saying yes. She’s no longer feeling the way she did earlier so there’s nothing to talk about, that’s all.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:36 am, 15th September 2016Good idea. Noted.
You could answer it, but not with 100% accuracy. (Plus, a woman’s relationship with her father is much less of a relevant factor than a lot of guys seem to think it is.)
Wolf – I’ll ignore your “one girl” questions but I will answer your more general ones.
Regularly and all the time. It’s normal. You just integrate this into your battle plan.
They don’t leave for other Alpha 2.0s. Alpha 2.0s are extremely rare. They leave for betas or Alpha 1.0s, both of whom will give them monogamy or a semblance of monogamy/boyfriend status until they cheat.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I have a 94% return rate. However, I make sure to do everything right. If a guy does more things wrong his return rate will be far less.
1. That violates the rules of the soft next.
2. She’s upset/emotional so you’re unlikely to get a valid answer anyway.
Anon.
Posted at 10:59 am, 15th September 2016But that’s not true by the time the soft next is over?
Suppose you genuinely screw up. However, she blows it out of proportion and you soft next her for the drama. Then you call her in a couple of days, she’s eager to visit you. You discuss the underlying issue with her if necessary, and deal with it, but what you don’t discuss is her overreaction and the soft next, right?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:10 am, 15th September 2016That’s a soft nexting question, so I’ve answered it over in the soft next questions post, question number 37.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 11:39 am, 15th September 2016Yes and all that is pretty standard from your books and this site. but it is this I disagree with:
This is the problem, I don’t know about them being as rare as you think, maybe 10 years ago. Both my side girls are seeing other guys, none of these guys want anything serious, none of them care that they are seeing other guys, they just accept it. It’s how things are now with alot of these younger ones. So isn’t that the very definition of Alpha 2.0?
One of the guys that one of them was seeing for a bit was Alpha 1.0 (from what I was told about him) and didn’t want her seeing other guys, He was from the middle east and was ‘disgusted at how Australian girls will see more than one man!’, typical Alpha 1.0 trying to put demands on her. So she dropped him pretty quickly.
With the girl I mentioned in the previous post both of the guys even knew about me, and me about them, none of us cared. Now when you’re a girl seeing 3 guys and life gets busy, you may need to drop one.
Are you saying this situation never happens or is rare? No one else here has experienced this?
Because, I’m starting to see a trend with these young girls just having their own harem of fb’s or mltr’s and when they get bored of one, or don’t have time for all the ones they are seeing, they drop one.
These aren’t typical LSNFTE situations.
JB
Posted at 11:48 am, 15th September 2016Another great article. The thing is, all these ‘one girl’ questions stem from different reasoning that PUAs may have as underlying flaws:
1) I’m a PUA and can get anyone I want.
2) Abundance mentality – but not true abundance mentality. They believe in abundance of girls, but not abundance of ‘quality’ girls that fits them.
3) Dry spells, not having enough regular sex, etc.
4) They are used to fucking ugly or average looking women (and This One Girl is a personal 10)
I recently had a date with this amazing girl. She’s a scientist, hot as hell, sweet, and just a little crazy. My type of gal. It didn’t really work out. I felt the disappointment for about a day. Then, I made sure to schedule four different dates just to be sure to get the outcome independence back.
And that’s how you get her out of your head and some great experiences out of the situation!
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 12:08 pm, 15th September 2016I agree, flaw or not though, it may be true. I can go through a dating site of 5000 18-29yo women and skim through pics and there’ll only be maybe 200 girls that are 8+, then they have to be interested in me, but then they have to be ok with the fact that I’m in an open marriage (that’s the tough one right there).
So currently 2 side girls. 1 is a fashion model, the other a hot young student and stripper. It takes a long time to find girls of that caliber that will fit into your life and be cool with you having a wife, because quite frankly, there isn’t an abundance of young models that want to date older married men for free.
If it’s 6-7’s though, then yeah, who cares. dime a dozen, and very easy to get in some places, online or offline.
JB
Posted at 12:33 pm, 15th September 2016@WolfOfGeorgeStreet
I agree that more men are becoming Alpha 2.0 style. But more meaning that the percentage is going from 2 to 3 %, or similar. Even more so, girls are becoming more open to having open relationships in general. However, women are biologically hardwired as serial monogamists, meaning that at some point, they choose a single partner (for a while) whether the guy is fucking other girls or not. Perhaps that’s what happened to your girl.
And as always – Very Young Women are classified as their own group because their mentality is a lot different (and they change their mind often. About everything).
I understand your frustration and the lack of true abundance. But remember, if 2 out of 200 girls are your kind of gals, you still have thousands of gals to play with. And in an open marriage, you’ll do well with just a few at a time.
JRM
Posted at 01:02 pm, 15th September 2016I’ve found nearly 99% of the time I or someone I know has a “there’s this one girl…” question that the battle has already been lost and they’re gone. But since we’re human, we assume we are the 1% that can turn it around.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:03 pm, 15th September 2016Wolf, as always, you’re an extremely wealthy man who is only going after the absolute top 1% of women and competing against the top 1% of men. Your perceptions are always going to be skewed towards this highly unusual scenario. I could respond and refute your points but it would simply be a repeat of discussions we’ve had before and I have no interest in repeating myself. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying that 99% of men reading these words, myself included, are never going to experience your problems, nor draw your conclusions regarding those problems.
Joelsuf
Posted at 01:52 pm, 15th September 2016Yeah that’s what happened to me. I was used to fucking meh to bad looking chicks but then I fucked one that was way more attractive than the ones I usually fuck and caught dumbass feelings because I wasn’t used to it.
JB
Posted at 02:14 pm, 15th September 2016@Joelsuf
We’ve all been there. Our first hot lay using PUA techniques will automatically result in some levels of neediness etc.
If you’ve identified the problem, raised your standards and adjusted your feelings accordingly, I’d say that the experience was overall a huge success.
donnie demarco
Posted at 04:25 pm, 15th September 2016Does it really make a difference if she left for a 2.0, or if this matches the canonical definition of LSNFTE? In the end you’re going to treat it like an LSNFTE anyway, so the underlying reasons are moot.
We use terms like LSNFTE for convenience, but in the end it’s all the same shit. These young women want personal freedom just like we do. The crux of the 2.0 lifestyle is in creating an environment where this type of mutual freedom can flourish.
donnie demarco
Posted at 04:52 pm, 15th September 2016Now it’s time for my question:
Q: There’s this girl I met on OKC. Things went well on the first date, we made out a bit at the bar and then went back to her apartment for sex. However, she was on her period, so I fucked her in the ass instead. We had a second date, and she was still bleeding, so we did anal again. My question is, are these two anal sessions enough to qualify for “lock in”, or do I need to have vaginal sex to be sure?
A: In this particular case, YES it was enough to achieve lock in. After the two anal sessions, I dropped down to texting her “whenever I want”, and everything’s been fine. But that’s only a sample size of one. I’ll need to do more research to be definitive.
Point being, there’s a lot of experimentation and personal learning in all of this. Failure is a part of learning. When in doubt, stick by the 2.0 pillars (confidence, OI, sexual frame, etc.) and try to learn from the outcome whether it’s a success or failure. Even better, come back here and post your results so that we can benefit from them as well.
Marsupial
Posted at 06:02 pm, 15th September 2016To the “this one girl” guys: if you are interested in her, then you are not the only one. This one unique angel of your imagination is fucking regularly. So your problem is simply that she isn’t fucking you.
Joelsuf
Posted at 07:27 pm, 15th September 2016It was kind of a layup for me really. We had a mutual friend who hooked us up. Everything was going great but when we had sex I was hungry, dehydrated, drunk, and high. I couldn’t perform to save my life lol. Had I been stone cold sober (or at least hydrated in some aspect), the sex would have been way better (for both of us) and we would probably be a couple by now or FBs or something. Meh, I’m good though. On to better things.
lol that is an extremely bitter pill to swallow, but its legit. That last line sums up the cognitive dissonance of slut shamers too. Cuz if the sluts they bitch about were fucking them they wouldn’t be bitching at all lol.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 09:21 pm, 15th September 2016@JB
This is probably why, for the most part, at least in this instance.
I agree, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a huge grind and time consuming process everytime, more so than most people here even realize (like a full time second job). So obviously you want to avoid this as much as possible.
@BD
Wealthy perhaps, not extremely wealthy, but I’m working on it. So would appreciate if these girls stuck around for longer without the constant headache/hassle of sinking my time into finding new ones and dealing with all their flaky BS.
I’d also say it’s top 5% of 18yo-29yo Caucasian or Mixed race women in the major cities I go after, not top 1%. Maybe top 1% if we’re talking all western women. Yes, you are competing up against the top 1% of men for the top 5% of women in this category as these men tend to see multiple women.
The top 1% 18-29yo of Caucasian women I can really only get if I pay, to start with at least.
@donnie demarco
Well, that’s exactly what I was asking because I don’t know. Does it make a difference? And will they still return with a ‘94% success rate’ if that’s the case?
Obviously I’m going to treat it like a LSNFTE for lack of other ideas, but is that really the best option? Or should I be hitting them up and offering them a crazy extravagant date or an expensive gift or something. If you can keep them around for another 6 months for a one time investment it’s probably worth it, but if you drop a bunch of cash on a pair of shoes or a night of luxury and then they disappear again after 2 weeks, then you’re going to be pissed off.
The one in question asked if we could do something ‘fancy’ next time she’s free, which I said was fine but haven’t heard back from her on when she actually is free again. Should that have been my cue to just plow through her ‘unavailability’ and offer an upscale date, that perhaps another guy IS offering her?
JB
Posted at 10:28 pm, 15th September 2016@donnie demarco
I’ll have to agree. What she leaves you for doesn’t matter – even if he leaves her / she lives him after a month, you should still wait 3-4 months before contacting her again – otherwise, you are the one chasing, and attraction will drop like a stone.
@WolfOfGeorgeStreet
I think you should take some pride in those achievements though. Sticking to not paying for it as you get older is a great sign of character. Hopefully, I’ll be like that when I get older.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 10:39 pm, 15th September 2016@JB
Haha, I’m only in my early 30’s mate. ‘Older’ for these 18-21yo girls I often see for sure, I’m often the oldest guy they’ve ever dated, the others usually being young male model looking guys, but although I’m nowhere near as good looking as them, I’m decent and can easily pass as mid 20’s. So I don’t think it’s really an achievement at all.
I also have no qualms paying for it, if it’s going to save me time and get me exactly what I want quickly, but in the situations to which I’m referring, I am not, aside from paying for the dates and logistics.
Parade
Posted at 12:43 am, 16th September 2016This seems a little suspect…I don’t even get 10 responses in a week to online messages; how could I possibly work on 10 women at a time? Unless by “working on 10 women at a time” you’re including ones you’ve sent messages to that haven’t replied yet.
Besides that, even if I did get a better response rate it would take me about 3-4 weeks to setup dates with 10 women. I can fit maybe 3 dates in a week, some weeks only 2; I can’t stand being out much more than that even if I’m in serious dating mode.
Parade
Posted at 01:15 am, 16th September 2016You’re probably not going to get the kind of responses you want here — I think Dawson Stone is the only guy who actually has experience with what you’re trying to do and I haven’t seen him around in a while. For the most part BD is about NOT doing that kind of thing; no, you’re not going to offer her a fancy date, you’re going to invite her to your place/hotel to fuck and leave. You’re offering her better sex than the guy down the street. Pretty sure that falls apart when your standard for a 7 is what most dudes would call an 11. I don’t have any advice to give — I’m not really in that world. I can say for the SD dating I’ve done I end up with sex on the first date after buying her one drink about 50-75% of the time. I usually end up fucking her once or twice more at my place (not going out for the date, she’s just coming over to hookup) w/out paying anything and then I don’t hear from her again.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 02:29 am, 16th September 2016He was very helpful, in fact, it was some of the advice he gave that took some of the stuff I was doing to the next level and allowed me to date some of these girls for considerably less and considerably longer than I otherwise would have been. Admittedly I was unsure if what he was suggesting would actually work here for the girls I was chasing, but it did, surprisingly, at least for a few, and that’s all that was needed.
I suppose when you’re married seeing a girl of that caliber for 6 months is all you can really ask for, any longer is a bonus.
But if it weren’t for being open to advice before in these very comment threads, I wouldn’t have gotten to where I am now, so I’m always looking for how to improve my ROI even further.
Yes. When the guys they are used to dating are either rich and taking them out on yachts on the reg, or very, very good looking and make them wet just by existing, great sex alone doesn’t fly, as you’ve already mentioned. 1 or 2 times, sure, any longer… Forget it. But an occasional extravagant date or gift isn’t necessarily a bad investment.
Anon.
Posted at 04:44 am, 16th September 2016Could you please name what specifically worked so well for you?
Speaking of people who aren’t here, can’t wait till J. O. T. B. discovers this thread. It will sure put a major strain on my popcorn supply ; )
Gil Galad
Posted at 04:59 am, 16th September 2016@Wolf: since money isn’t much of a problem for you, do you use that to optimize your appearance and ability to compete with the younger guys (as in: bunch of supplements and skin care, TRT, physique/nutrition coach, etc) or do you stop at the standard stuff like staying fit and dressing well?
An open (discreetly) marriage like yours would be a great arrangement for me in a decade or so; my traditional family would leave me be and I could maintain a façade of mild conformity without all the bitter confrontations that would happen if I just told them everything I think of their SP/beliefs. And if I had ten or twenty extra grand per year I’d definitely do the stuff I mentioned above.
Minister
Posted at 05:12 am, 16th September 2016Exactly! Last 10 online dates of mine took me 5 whole months. No kidding. It was not because of limited free time, but the fact that dates to responses ratio is ridiculous here. I have a 10% response rate, btw. I have tried both the Three Exchange Process and a slower system. Bottom line is that online dates take too long to get. I cannot even close imagine how it would be to work on 10 women simultaneously.
Fake Blackdragon
Posted at 06:28 am, 16th September 2016Then stop whining and move somewhere else!!!11!
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 07:10 am, 16th September 2016@Anon
Read the comments on the following posts:
https://alphamale20.com/2015/09/10/sugar-daddy-dating-sites/
https://alphamale20.com/2014/10/19/spending-money-women/
Particularly his response to me in the comments of that first post, then you can see my response where I say I’ll try and experiment with his approach despite my skepticism, since then I haven’t looked back.
That guy knew his stuff. He definitely came across as a very wealthy, very logical guy that had really crunched the numbers and knew the value of his time and how to best use that time and his weath in the pursuit of true beauties.
@Gil Galad
No, although it might help a little bit, but I ultimately see that time/money as being better off spent elsewhere. I’m athletic and fit and have a very toned body naturally, slight 6 pack etc. but just nowhere near as prominent as guys that actually put alot of time/money into their body.
The thing here is, it’s just so hard to compete with other guys when it comes to body, because…
So if I was looking to compete on body/looks, I’d have to be doing the same to even get close to their level, and there’s no way I’m doing anything like that to my body.
I just settle for suiting up, and staying toned and fit. A normal, healthy, fit body. If I were in the US though, I would definitely look into the stuff you mentioned, guys there aren’t nearly as gym (and steroid) obsessed from my observations during my time there so the competition is alot softer when it comes to looks.
It’s pretty good, but it requires alot of things to be in place before you attempt it, as BD has said before, and while it seems great in theory, there are alot of practical issues you probably haven’t really considered. Logistics is the big one, and generally speaking, in major cities, these logistics cost money, unless you can find girls who will host or you can bring women back home (unlikely).
The other issue is keeping it discreet. Very, very tough to do. Even big cities aren’t as big as you think, very easy to run into people you know when on a date even when you’re out of town etc. the world is a small place at times.
Trying to meet girls discreetly is a nightmare too. It’s hard to approach hundreds of women, swipe thousands of women or send out messages to women online without someone you know seeing you eventually, or accidentally asking out a girl who turns out to be a friend of a friend etc.
Minister
Posted at 07:12 am, 16th September 2016Easier said than done. You have to choose a country with a decent quality of living, other that easier women to work on. In addition, my work experience on my degree I ‘m afraid is not enough for what the jobs marketplace asks abroad.
Duke
Posted at 10:27 am, 16th September 2016This post/thread just goes to show you that making yourself attractive (to get them or keep them in your life) to women can be very mentally exhausting and generally undesirable for the average man. That’s why most men get complacent and lazy when they find a halfway decent chick. What they don’t realize is that the work to keep multiple women attracted is less than the added work one woman demands in an FLR which includes drama, betaization and all the other aggravations that come with not having a strong frame/abundance mentality, not to mention the huge disappointment men are left with when the women invariably gets bored of them. Moral of the story is always be closing and always be gaming. No resting until your it’s time for your dirt nap.
Joelsuf
Posted at 11:05 am, 16th September 2016Yeah he means ones that you have already “e-approached.”
I sense MGTOW whining in this. How is that possible? I live in a fairly small city and I do what BD doesn’t suggest in online dating and my response rate is about a third. And nearly half of that field agrees to meet. And these aren’t ugly ratchets either they are average looking chicks. And I message maybe 20 chicks a month online and very lazy about it.
Either you need to move or you are doing something wrong that you don’t know about. Probably the latter.
donnie demarco
Posted at 11:08 am, 16th September 2016Ah, gotcha. I can’t help with sugar daddy game, but it sounds like she’s firming up on you which often means there’s a new man/distraction in the picture. If it were me, I’d just fuck other girls until the distraction wore off, but SD is a whole other ball game. I don’t know how to spend money on women without ruining my frame.
I don’t think it has to be strictly 10, it just has to be enough to keep you from developing oneitis for a girl. So if you have a few girls you’re fucking, and a few girls you’re scheduling (real) dates with, and you’re genuinely attracted to all of them, that’s effectively enough.
Online dating is mostly about a) being time-efficient and b) quickly identifying the fun girls. I average 2 dates per week, and I live in an “impossible city”. I don’t do anything special. I paid a professional photographer for photos. I use an autoclicker to quickly identify the women who are attracted to me and DTF. From there it’s the usual online dating process. It’s just numbers, numbers, numbers. My response rates are often worse than your 10%, but I get the dates anyway through numbers.
donnie demarco
Posted at 11:10 am, 16th September 2016Never thought of it this way before, but I totally agree.
Minister
Posted at 11:28 am, 16th September 2016Well, I don’t know how you make it, but congrats anyway.
Currently I am testing out BD’s Three Exchange Process with the EXACT same questions BD mentions in his books and most of the girls won’t comply to meeting. I am an average looking guy, maybe slightly above average, and I have a decent profile text. In the past, I had put professional pics, but it was time to change my photos, since almost every online girl in my city had seen them, lol. Also, I used to run another system, where I had a casual, fun convo in the dating site/app, switched to Facebook, then I had another fun, casual convo the next day and then pitched the meet. Same ridiculous statistics. If you see anything wrong in all this, then I don’t know what to say.
PS: Note that I live in Greece, not in the US. Also, don’t get me wrong, I don’t blame BD’s advice at all. This is perfect. I think it is definitely a matter of location.
Parade
Posted at 12:09 pm, 16th September 2016@Wolf
I have nowhere near the $ you or he has, but his stuff really worked for me as well. My location resulted in about a 50% initial golddigger/escort ratio, but that got better as I learned what signs to watch out for. They were a bit different than what he was used to.
But…a ‘nice’ date for me is more $ than I want to spend on a chick, so I have a couple regular ‘average’ chicks where good sex is more than enough to keep them around and I supplement with sporadic SD chicks where I only see them a couple times.
It’d be nice to fix that and keep hot chicks around for the regular thing, but it’s just not realistic for me. Genetics are wrong and the competition in my area is too stiff. For example, I know a guy who set a goal of going on 30 dates in a month and achieved it from tinder alone, I don’t even match 30 chicks in a month on tinder. I get maybe 10 in a good month, more realistically 3-4.
But anyway, that was a long winded way of saying I know where you’re coming from re. competition and I don’t have any good solutions.
Parade
Posted at 01:15 pm, 16th September 2016@Minister
Currently I am testing out BD’s Three Exchange Process with the EXACT same questions BD mentions in his books and most of the girls won’t comply to meeting.
I think the ‘three exchange’ thing requires a certain vibe/person/something to actually work. I got pretty bad results via his ‘three questions’. Slightly better if I just go ‘hey, how are you doing?’ And then respond and pitch a meetup. Much better if I find something on her profile that I actually have in common with her and then respond and pitch a meetup.
Straight Rider
Posted at 02:33 pm, 16th September 2016I can relate to @WolfOfGeorgeStreet, online dating can be a grind if you will not settle for anything less than the hotter chicks. Put the same hot chicks in a night game environment or face to face and I get better results. So I figure I have to run multiple systems night game like twice a month(I find it relaxing and energizing anyways), online game, and of course if I run into a hot chick out and about anywhere its on(I don’t go out specifically to day game though).
Dawson Stone is definitely missed out here, I hope BD didn’t ban him. @BD please give Dawson Stone and @WolfOfGeorgeStreet passes on this site to break some of your rules without the threat of being banned. They provide valuable alternative view points, insight and field experience on some of the topics discussed. Its always great to see a great post by @BD and then see @WolfOfGeorgeStreet and/or @Dawson get into it with @BD about the post.
@BD, as always we can’t thank you enough for this site/forum and the goldmine of information, and insight it provides.
donnie demarco
Posted at 02:45 pm, 16th September 2016For me, the problem was with the “interesting questions”. I would often get responses like “is this a job interview?”. I keep it a lot lighter now and it seems to work well. However I do stick with the TEP; it’s a really great way to filter out the time wasters. Girls who are serious about meeting guys don’t insist on lots of chat before setting up a meet.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 02:53 pm, 16th September 2016I did not ban him. He’s very inconsistent and comes and goes from the internet all the time. My guess is he’ll be back in a few months. Then he’ll leave again. Then everyone will ask me where he’s gone, as If I know, which I don’t. We’re not friends.
You’re mistaking me for some other manosphere/PUA blogger. I’ve never threatened to ban either of those people. Wolf follows all the rules here and he’s always welcome. Dawson was weirdly argumentative for no reason and has certainly pushed the envelope here a few times. I’ve given him some stern warnings but I’ve never threatened to ban him. I just started ignoring him, which worked well.
Unlike most other manosphere/PUA bloggers, I don’t ban people just because they disagree with me. I welcome disagreement, since A) it helps make me more money and B) opposing arguments are usually so wacky and nonfactual that they usually reinforce my points for me. I only ban people if they break the five simple rules I have for this blog, or if they constantly derail conversations. There’s no other reason I would take the trouble to ban someone.
Minister
Posted at 03:44 pm, 16th September 2016Yeah, this question seems to blow me off from LOTS of girls. Can you give an example of a lighter alternative?
This has the lowest response ratios, as 99% of the emails a girl receives are like ‘hey’. Picking on something in her profile is very hard to do as most profiles are blank, too generic, too long to read (100 interests listed, for example) or say things I cannot relate to (music bands I don’t know). Note that I use badoo, as it is the most popular dating site here.
Parade
Posted at 06:50 pm, 16th September 2016@Minister
99% of the messages are the same, but it has a similar to better message->lay rate for me in my area than the BD stuff. It quite simply doesn’t seem to matter that it’s not unique. The only way I get a better response->lay rate is by actually having something in common with her.
Greg
Posted at 08:35 pm, 16th September 2016Not sure if he still answers it, but this is Dawson’s Email address. Having seen his blog before he took it down (as he said a woman he was seeing, saw it and outed him), for someone his age (40s), he’s extremely good looking, fit and has a 6 pack, plus is quite wealthy as well.
dawsonstone@hotmail.com
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 10:34 pm, 16th September 2016@Joelsuf
To be fair, response rates are hugely dependent on your location. Size of the city is actually less important than demographics and male/female ratio’s (in the age groups that matter). Alot of guys posting here are based in US cities, and you guys have no idea how easy it is for you (particularly in some cities) compared to some other locations (although some US cities are better than others).
Your response rates are always going to be higher. I used to do some work for online dating companies so I saw the statistics first hand in various cities, and there’s no question that some markets are way softer than others. You can do a simple controlled experiment and just move your online dating profile from city to city, or country to country. Then using the exact same methods, monitor your response rates etc.
Not content with just these numbers and stats, I actually hopped on a plane to experience it for myself, and yes, you guys in the US have no idea how lucky you are. I felt like a rockstar in NYC, more dates than I had time for, in the end I got sick of going on dates and would just invite girls online straight to my apartment that very moment, and if they weren’t willing to do that, I’d find one who was within the next 20 minutes.
I’m not exaggerating, it was like stepping into the twilight zone. Here I have to jump through so many hoops just to get the same quality of girl I could get to come straight to my apartment there, to go out on a date with me here.
In fact for any man considering moving and tossing up between places to move to, I STRONGLY suggest setting up an online dating profile in each of the cities you are considering and run this experiment. It might help sway your decision. The online dating market will be a good representation of the greater dating market in that city.
You’ll be shocked to find that in some cities a profile will get messages and likes pouring in without you so much as lifting a finger whereas in other cities the exact same profile will get no interest at all, and you’ll actively have to pursue women and blast out thousands of messages for very few responses.
The other thing I recommend is making a hot female profile (put some time into it and make it look very real, and just pluck the photos from another dating site in a distant city and ensure that they don’t pop up in ‘google image searches’ when searching using the images).
Then move it around cities and monitor stats like, the number of messages she receives, the ratio of men vs women on the site (in the age groups that matter), the average height of men there, the quality of the men (their looks, their profile text), the quality of women (described body type, lookes) etc. This will give you a good indication of the competition and whether there are enough women there worth competing for.
Parade
Posted at 02:18 am, 17th September 2016Sure, that’s NYC…known for having a a very good women:guy ratio for guys. Try that on the big city on the other coast (SF) and you’ll end up with nothin’.
Actually you’ll do ok because you’re foreign, a +, and you have $ and I assume game, but take an american with average game and do that and they’ll end up alone in SF and more chicks than they know what to do with in NYC
Minister
Posted at 03:12 am, 17th September 2016“To be fair, response rates are hugely dependent on your location. Size of the city is actually less important than demographics and male/female ratio’s (in the age groups that matter). Alot of guys posting here are based in US cities, and you guys have no idea how easy it is for you (particularly in some cities) compared to some other locations (although some US cities are better than others).”
Yeah, I live in a 3.5 million people city, which mean let’s say 1.7 million women. However, only 5000 of them have a profile on badoo and the active profiles each day are actually around 200. On okcupid, I set up a brand new profile and it took me only 50 messages to clear all women 19-29 years old within 10km from my city and active in the last week, another 60 messages for women 30-35 and another 30 for 36-40. Like I said, response rates is not an issue for me. The issue is that the majority of them will have left the conversation until the 2nd message or will be unwilling to meet in person.
Also, men to women analogy is terrible, to say the least. In badoo it is around 3:1. Seriously guys in badoo should freeze male registrations, until there is some balance.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 06:31 am, 17th September 2016Yep. SF is one of the worst (the worst?) major cities in the US for men (beyond just dating reasons), which is why I said in my comment some cities being better than others. SF and NYC are opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of dating in the US.
I’ve been to SF. My impression of it was, there’s simply no reason to be there as a man unless you are trying to make it big in the Tech industry. My ‘wealth’ wouldn’t mean much in SF, that place is more expensive than NYC and what are you competing up against there, young guys worth crazy amounts like $10m+ are probably a dime a dozen.
Also, actually, the Australian SMV bonus isn’t worth as much there, heaps of Aussie’s there, its a 14 hour direct flight from Sydney, so seems to be a common destination for Aussie’s. I didn’t bother dating at all while I was there, my time was better spent being a tourist. The people are alot friendlier there though than NYC, and I prefer the accent to the NYC accent, the NYC accent gets on my nerves after a while.
If I were a woman in NYC, I’d immediately move to SF, and as a man in SF if I weren’t doing big deals in tech and had to be there (or unless I was gay), I’d move to NYC.
Parade
Posted at 11:12 am, 17th September 2016Tech gets all the press so I can see why you’d think that it’s all SF is, but during the dotcom bust SF housing lost ~20%. It’s actually pretty well diversified economically (or was). Almost everyone has a roommate…even into their 30s, which brings housing costs back to affordable (though probably still more than you want to spend for less space than you need). There is a lot going against it; but it has a few big things going for it. Weather is amazing all year round (60-70 f) close to mountains for winter sports, ocean for summer sports, decent surf spots for the US, lots of hiking trails and forests. It’s really terrible if your priority is getting laid frequently by 10s, but if you want some of the other things it offers it’s not so bad. Then again, if you want that you could move further up the coast or down the coast and be in an area with similar access but not a terribly skewed ratio.
Gil Galad
Posted at 11:39 am, 17th September 2016@Wolf: thanks a lot for the details.
WolfOfGeorgeStreet
Posted at 12:06 pm, 17th September 2016yuck, definitely not my thing
I agree, and I got to experience some of that too.
Wouldn’t live there though, unless it was because I was earning millions there, but to each their own.
Nick T
Posted at 12:07 pm, 17th September 2016Reason 5 is labeled #6
Parade
Posted at 12:47 pm, 17th September 2016Yep, it’s the right place for a certain kind of person. For most people who want the same access to non-city life and want to still be able to date there’s moving up or down the coast. LA is better than SF for dating (oddly enough), but still bad…but the cost of housing is more reasonable there. Portland is better for both, etc. Unless you’re a chick…in that case SF is amazing for dating, and you’ll probably end up moving in with your BF or breaking up with him before too long, so who cares that everyone has a roommate?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:54 pm, 17th September 2016Thank you. Corrected.
hey hey
Posted at 12:36 am, 18th September 2016@Minister: The recommendation for Badoo is different from sites like Match.com and OkCupid. You don’t use the 3 exchanges in Badoo. You just go on with the conversation until you feel the girl is comfortable with you. Then you pitch the date. So for this reason sites like Badoo is mostly a waste of time.
Jocko
Posted at 12:54 am, 18th September 2016@Joelsuf
“my response rate is about a third. And nearly half of that field agrees to meet”
That’s pretty much what mine is on tinder, but I’d say I get slightly more than half agreeing to meet. I’m not sure what BD’s method is, but I’ve found having a bit of a conversation has lead to me getting more dates, rather than pitching a date ASAP. Especially with better looking women. I’ve been testing different photos, bios and openers. I think I’ve found what works well for me, the quality I match with and amount that respond have increased heaps since I started a few weeks ago
The only problem I’m having at the moment is meeting a couple of women who look nothing like their pictures haha
Also, @WolfOfGeorgeStreet
You talk about things being rough in Sydney, have you considered moving to Brisbane/Melbourne? I’m a 23 year old labourer and I do alright, you sound like you’d kill it in Brisbane. Especially coming into summer, plenty of European/South American girls here and it’s cheaper
cole
Posted at 04:29 am, 18th September 2016in terms of physical pleasure and sex drive is sex as enjoyable for you now as it was in your 20s? if yes, will it continue to be that way in your 60s 70s? Also how much money would you consider.. a lot..in terms of investing? is 100k a lot of money to invest? im trying to figure out a goal for how much i will save up for investments. i love the alpha 2.0 by the way so fa im on page 114.
Parade
Posted at 11:44 am, 18th September 2016@cole
A bit off topic, but to take your investing question: Figure out how much income you need from your investments first, work backwards from there to figure out how much $ you’d need to make that income at different interest rates (and then pick an average one…4% safe withdrawal rate, 3% if you want to be extra careful, etc)
Captain
Posted at 01:32 pm, 18th September 2016Thank you blackdragon! This post is very timely for me. Due to defacto-monogamy and spending 2 months apart I have developed oneitis for my “open” relationship. Fortunately, thanks to your blog, I think I have turned a couple of the girls from the time apart into FBs. This already seems to be helping with my frame with the main girl. I still have oneitis but it feels a little more workable than it would be if I hadn’t taken some of the steps you suggested.
I still have one question though, minute by minute how do you keep your self from taking oneitisy action such as sending a text that’s only purpose is your validation? In other words, when you are on the verge of doing something that can come off as needy how do you take a step back?
Duke
Posted at 02:18 pm, 18th September 2016Not Black Dragon but IMO you can probably do this by asking yourself if what your sending is needy before you hit send. I know I’ve caught myself before sending some cringe worthy messages in the past. In person you are probably gonna have a tougher time but can still consciously stop yourself, but will probably need some practice so it comes off as natural.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:26 pm, 18th September 2016Yes.
Yes, due to TRT, which is something I will continue for the rest of my life. Read this.
That’s purely subjective. $100K could be a lot for some, $10 million could be very little for someone else.
In my opinion? Not really. But again, that’s subjective. It may be a lot to someone else.
What Parade said.
Well done! Very impressed!
Good, and remember oneitis is a set of actions, not feelings.
I don’t have this problem, because I’ve been building my outcome independence and great life for many years. Once you’re outcome independent and have lots of exciting things going on outside of any women, you won’t get needy like that.
Until then, you’ll just have to catch yourself and use willpower to not take oneitisy actions.
cole
Posted at 08:02 pm, 18th September 2016@Parade i appreciate the advice man
@ black dragon, 100k is not a lot, wow well i guess i got a lot of thinking and work to do. my goal was to turn 100k into a million in 5 years. but i dont know how hard it will be, how likely its possible, and what to invest in. i dont like to approach investing with the mentality that, ” i will succeed if i believe in myself.” i dont want to take huge risks, im looking for low risk investment ideas that will almost guarantee a return. savings accounts interest is so low .01% at chase. smh.
cole
Posted at 08:31 pm, 18th September 2016its also very exciting reading your book. easily the most knowledgeable, intriguing and practical source of information ive read since how to win friends and influence people. i feel like you wrote this book the 2% of men in this world who share some of the same beliefs as I do and trully want to achieve long term happiness. the world can no longer fool/manipulate me the more wisdom i gain.if it didnt stumble upon your free blogs 2 years ago. I think i wouldve killed myself.
Al
Posted at 02:10 am, 19th September 2016@ cole
I know you didn’t ask me but as I am in my sixties, maybe I can answer you. Sex is better now and I have more of it than I did when I was 20. It’s all good. 🙂
cole
Posted at 03:51 am, 19th September 2016@al
even better now, thats great! you must take real good care of yourself. how is that so ? that its even better now…also it sounds like if you monitor your test levels, and only have sex with women you find very attractive, sex with remain just as good later in life. im trying to work hard now so in my later years ill have enough money n status to finally attract those 9s and 10s i always wanted. as of now i have to enjoy to average women.
POB
Posted at 09:40 am, 19th September 2016@Captain
BD already answered this, but my 2 cents is: it’s just a simple mindset turn. Gotta focus on yourself, ok, but also save some time to focus on your actions towards you goals. If you’re really busy going after what you want, women you’re trying to seduce will play second fiddle to your real priorities (as they should).
Practical example: former FB told me I could be more “romantic” when I pitched a meet last week (she’s from social game and over 30 mind you). As I don’t have time for it (even with my main), I just shrugged it off and kept hitting other girls. In her heart she knows what we are, but still wants me to invest more. Simple question: do I want that also? No. Then to the next woman I go.
Eddie
Posted at 07:32 pm, 20th September 2016Hey BD, it would be really cool if could write an article based on today’s news about Brad and Angelina’s divorce… https://thesocialman.com/angelina-jolie-brad-pitt-divorce
They just keep proving your point, over and over.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:05 pm, 20th September 2016It would simply be a repeat of what I’ve already said. I predicted that Brad the Beta and Angelina the Dominant would divorce many years ago, but predicting that stuff is getting too easy now.
The big divorce I’m waiting for is Jay Z and Beyonce. That’s the one that everyone said would “work” and an example of a “Alpha monogamous marriage working.” Nope. They’re hanging by a thread and have for a while. When those two get divorced, (and that fairy tale marriage will be the most brutal divorce you’ve ever seen) I’ll happily write a blog post about that. Can’t wait!
donnie demarco
Posted at 05:13 pm, 21st September 2016Hey @Minister, sorry I missed this. My typical exchange looks like this:
I can’t say for certain, but I think girls in SF like this approach because it’s direct (“what are you looking for”) but not creepy, and thus short-circuits their APUAD (Anti-PUA-Defense). Girls in SF hate anything that smells of PUA (thanks, tech bros).
@Wolf: Yep, NYC rocks for a single man. I was just there a couple weeks ago, and laid two girls in four days. And I didn’t have to do shit; I’d go to a bar, order a drink, and wait for the college girls to come talk to me. It was great! In SF, it usually takes me a few weeks to hit that number, and I have to put in a lot more effort.
Yeah, I need to move. Workin’ on it…
donnie demarco
Posted at 05:46 pm, 21st September 2016There’s a simple way to help combat this: Whenever you send a text, imagine how you would feel if she screenshotted the conversation and sent it to all of her friends. The old PUAs used to use a technique called “The Jumbotron Test”, which is basically the same thing.
Important note: This is more than just a state-of-mind thing; girls really do screenshot their conversations and send them to their friends/fuck buddies. Whenever a girl I’m dating starts sending me screenshots of her conversations with other men, I treat that as a HUGE sign that I’ve properly achieved alpha fuck buddy frame.
Anon.
Posted at 07:29 am, 24th September 2016Right during the period where the count of my women was dropping rapidly from 5 to 0, I met N, a girl with a very interesting personality and very big tits on her 18 y. o. dancer’s body. I had two dates with her (got her to my place, but nothing sexual ensued), and afterwards she became elusive and I became oneitis-y. I monitored my actions strictly, but what was happening in my mind was not healthy. Then she unfriended me, I set a timer for two months, at the end of which I learned she moved to another city for study (so possibly she liked me yet cut contact knowing she would move).
But thing is, going through dating sites, within a couple of months since meeting N I found:
— someone with body exactly like N’s;
— someone with body exactly like N’s and also called N;
— N’s sister.
(Got one date with the latter that went nowhere and no dates with the other ones. But that’s irrelevant.)
So much for unique unicorns. Unicorns may or may not exist, depending on the definition, but no one is unique.
Tug Speedman
Posted at 04:01 am, 6th December 2016So, I wingman for a friend who was going on a tinder date, we meet her and 4 of her girlfriends at a bar, I hit it off with one of her friends, after a bunch of different venues we wind up at her place, we start kissing for a while, she’s all hot and bothered but I still have my clothes on, eventually she got so upset that I wasn’t making a move for sex that she said either we are having sex or you gotta leave.
Like a boss I got my jacket and just left. 3 days later (today) she texts me, and we made plans to link up when she gets back from her business trip. My question is…do I follow the first date rule of no kissing even though we already kissed? Or does the night I met her count as a date (even though we were basically drinking the whole time?)
Ash
Posted at 07:58 am, 2nd February 2017He came to my blog a while back and was the same way. Part of me appreciated his engagement, but he’d pull the wildest arguments out of thin air, and became very superfluous and a bit aggressive. I asked him to tone it down but he just got worse, so I had to make him bug off.
Shura
Posted at 06:21 am, 18th February 2017Looks like this is dead, but anyway:
There’s this girl who on the first date made it clear she’s clingy. She’s 37. On my proposal we had met on a Thursday after she got out of work. As we were sitting for a drink at a pub she said something assuming we would have dinner later. I quickly got her out of her error. Then. as we were chatting about her previous relationship she spontaneously said that she gets too much into relationships and tends to “always be in contact” or something like that and she reckons that’s probably why men dump her. Finally, 20 minutes after parting ways she wrote to me on Whatsapp saying she had enjoyed it and asking if we would meet again.
She has an air of naivety. I have no problem in following BD’s rules (scarce contact, only seeing her once a week, etc) but I still fear she might get hurt. Should I go on to a second date? Maybe she’s an irredeemable nutjob?
Gil Galad
Posted at 07:54 am, 18th February 2017@Shura: proceed normally and apply the rules, including the rules about when it’s time to next. They are designed to prevent you from wasting much time anyway, so it’s fine to risk it.
Shura
Posted at 06:56 pm, 18th February 2017Thanks, Gil. The stock trader in me keeps telling me that proceeding would be “overtrading” (lowering the bar for action because of wishful thinking). But there is always the chance she could learn to enjoy nonmonogamy for the rest of her life, and that is well worth the risk. I will be careful to apply the progressively colder shower that BD described so well. She will probably dump me soon anyway. The precedent is the last clingy girl I met: she didn’t reach “lock in” because I would take hours to reply to her messages.