04 Sep Q&A Today: Ask Blackdragon’s Girlfriend Anything!
-By Caleb Jones
Something a little different today. I thought it might be educational to provide a viewpoint on a serious, non-monogamous relationship from the female perspective. It’s not often women (or men!) publicly talk about this topic, so this is one of the rare times you’ll get some insight on this.
Today, instead of writing an article about Pink Firefly’s and my relationship, I’ll just turn it over to her and let her answer any questions you have for her in the comments. For those of you who don’t know, Pink Firefly is my OLTR / fiancé who is soon moving in with me under an OLTR marriage, something I’ve been talking about wanting to do for around seven years now.
If you need background on her, read this article. If you want to read the most recent update I made about this relationship, read this article.
She’s free to answer any questions she receives from you. She is also free to not answer any questions she considers too personal; it’s completely up to her. The only questions I’ve instructed her to not answer are any questions regarding her or my finances, including the legal and financial aspects of the marriage. If you’re curious about the exact legal / financial structure I’ll be using for our co-habiting relationship, read this article here. Beyond that, I can’t give you any more specifics. (I don’t give personal legal or financial information over the internet to the public, and neither should you.)
If you seriously think I’m getting into a typical, traditional marriage where I’m going to risk my finances in any way whatsoever, then you’re stupid, and again you need to read this. I always follow my own advice and have not changed my mind on a single thing I’ve said publicly for the last nine years.
Because of the unique nature of what I’m doing today in the comments, the rules for the comments in this particular thread are different than the usual commenting rules on this blog. Normally, I respect free speech and allow anyone to say literally anything in the comments, even if they completely disagree with me, as long as they follow the 5 Simple Rules.
Today, and for this thread only, that rule set is rescinded, and we’re going to operate under a different set of parameters.The first time I posted an article about Pink Firefly, for the most part everyone was respectful. However, the second time, there were three or four commenters who lost their minds and threw a constant barrage of snarky, negative bullcrap at her that I thought was unfair and shitty. Very few people on the planet have the courage to talk about these issues publicly. PF, if anything, should be thanked for sharing her experiences in a public forum like this. Attacking her is the last thing anyone should do, regardless of what your opinions are regarding traditional marriage, OLTR marriage, monogamy, non-monogamy, or women.
Therefore, in this Q&A comment thread only, no attacks, insults, or snark of any kind whatsoever against PF is allowed. If I see any of those comments in the below thread, I will simply delete them without explanation. This includes any snark that is implied or disguised as a question.
Disagreeing with or challenging PF is perfectly fine. A constant stream of attacks is not. You’re not stupid; you know the difference (and if you don’t, I don’t care, I’ll still delete your comments in the thread below).
On all past and future articles on this blog, things will return to normal, i.e. unlimited free speech is allowed as long as you follow the 5 Simple Rules.
Other than the financial / legal stuff, there are no questions that are off limits; feel free to ask her whatever you like! I think this will be educational for all of us. I will also comment when needed to provide context.
Some of you may be tempted to ask me questions about this relationship. I’m not saying you can’t do that here, but the point of this thread is to ask questions to PF, not me. So please keep that in mind.
As always, my goal here is to be as transparent with all of you as possible, since the vast majority of people in non-monogamous relationships or marriages are terrified to talk about this kind of thing publicly and always keep them a secret from everyone. I realize that I may be your only public source of this kind of information (which is sad, but as time goes on there will be more of us).
I want to provide this transparency to all of you to show that these kinds of relationships are not only possible, but also viable and pleasant. Pink Firefly has been in my life for almost three years now and I’m still very happy with the relationship (I’m sure she’d say the same). Drama has been extremely low over that time and continues to be so. Over time, I will continue to provide updates about this relationship as long as people treat Pink Firefly with some measure of respect even if there are disagreements. (I don’t give a shit if I get respect or politeness from the audience; I’m here to make money, not get respect; but with PF, I expect some.)
That’s it! If you have any questions about what it’s like to be a woman in a serious OLTR relationship, now’s your time to ask! Pink Firefly is right here, watching this thread, standing by. Comment away! PF no longer needs to answer any comments here in one week, after Monday, September 11th, 2017 (unless she wants to), so if you want to ask, don’t wait.
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Leave your comment below, but be sure to follow the Five Simple Rules.
UK_Player
Posted at 05:19 am, 4th September 2017PF
I think I will have several questions for you,
but for now, my first questions are :
1. how long did you wait before bringing up the subject of a relationship with BD?
2. when he made it clear that it would be have to be an open relationship how did you feel about that and did you accept the oltr immediately or was there a debate with BD?
3. if you didnt accept the OLTR straight away, what did BD do you, if anything, to help ease you into it?
4. do you think that, provided the man does everything right as per the BD model, there is a high chance a women will accept an OLTR after 6 to 12 months of dating?
5. do you know any other girlfriends who have an oltr and if so does it work for them ?
6. did it come as a surprise or not when BD suggested OLTR?
7. how long did you wait before you stopped using condoms and used other forms of birth control?
Namo Tassa
Posted at 05:26 am, 4th September 2017Hi PF, do you recognizing and accepting the concept of non-mono relationship before even meet BD? If so, how it’s different from the model which BD design, ie. OLTR/FB,Non-legal Marriage,etc..
Tuphrhru
Posted at 05:44 am, 4th September 2017Hi PF.
Two questions here:
1. How does it make you feel while YOUR man is in bed with another woman? I know that jealousy is a “false” feeling, and I live by that (i.e. I am not jealous with my woman. I certainly KNOW of at least one specific occasion when she had an ONS and it never bothered me. ) but she has it still.
2. I am married, for the past 30 years, and the last thing I want to do is hurt my wife. Still, I would like to switch to an OLTR. How would YOU advise to try to convert my TMM into an OLTR, from a woman’s point of view, with minimal damage and hurt on both sides?
J
Posted at 06:13 am, 4th September 2017How many times do you expect to be with other men during the course of you arrangement, and does it matter if your partner has many other partners.
Mark
Posted at 06:22 am, 4th September 2017PF,
Do you go into this with the EXPECTATION [as opposed to being aware of the POSSIBILITY] that this OLTR marriage will eventually end?
Tim
Posted at 06:59 am, 4th September 2017PF,
I don’t know if this situation is one you could relate to, but once before and now I’ve been involved with two girls who are also involved with each other.
If this is a situation you could relate to, what advice do you have. I’ve talked to both and established that I want a non-monogamous relationship and they are both okay with this.
Do you have any advice for ways to minimize issues (drama)? I have a consistent worry of ensuring neither feels neglected or jealous of the other.
If not, BD, is this something you already have an article about or could write one? The first time I was in such a relationship, it ended because the girls broke up (one slept with the others boytoy….-_-;). Poly relationships seem to be a lot more complicated than what you discuss primarily (simple non-monogamy).
VSmilex
Posted at 07:03 am, 4th September 2017Hi PF! Knowing that Blackdragon is nonmonogamous with you, are you seeing other men as well? If you do, is it an organic urge or you see them because you feel you have to?
Do you two share details about your sexual life on the side or is it simply implied but never spoken about?
Is jealousy an issue for you?
Has Blackdragon expressed any signs of jealousy himself?
Nabeel
Posted at 07:36 am, 4th September 2017PF & BD,
First, thank you for sharing details of your relationship with us and agreeing to respond to questions, that takes a tremendous amount of courage.
PF–
1) Once BD declared you were in an open relationship did this make you want to seek other sex partners or do you think it had no impact on your desire to seek sexual fulfillment outside your relationship with BD.
2) If you were to guess, how long do you think your open relationship with BD will last?
3) How many ‘serious’ relationships did you have prior to meeting BD?
L
John Parker
Posted at 10:25 am, 4th September 2017PF, I hope you are doing well, I’ll get right to it: Would you encourage another woman with a traditional marriage to open it based on your relationship and experience?
epi
Posted at 10:51 am, 4th September 2017Do those shoes hurt?
James
Posted at 11:09 am, 4th September 2017how do you feel the dating landscape will change in the next 10 years?
Gil Galad
Posted at 12:01 pm, 4th September 2017@PF: perhaps a tough question: do you think BD is respecting his rule that “your main girl shouldn’t be your hottest” when it comes to you ? Do you think some of his FBs are hotter than you ? Not trying to be mean, I just want to know to what extent he walks his talk – but I’ll understand if the question rubs you the wrong way and you prefer not to answer it.
Second question: how close are you to his own views on men&women, politics, etc ? Whenever I read his articles I find myself mostly agreeing but also saying to myself “almost any woman is gonna find some of this stuff very sexist” or whatever.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 12:08 pm, 4th September 20171. Are you sleeping with other men besides BD? If so, how many? If not, why not?
2. You mentioned in a previous thread that you’re not interested in fuck buddy arrangements, only serious relationships. But didn’t BD start you out as a fuck buddy? You weren’t in a serious relationship with him when you first started sleeping together. So did that not violate your rule about sleeping with serious boyfriends only?
3. Do you and BD share stories about your other lovers? Or do you prefer a “don’t ask, don’t tell” arrangement? Or something in between? When the two of you live together and BD wants to leave the house to have sex with some hot big breasted blonde and you say to him, “where are you going, honey?” how do you expect him to answer?
4. Would you ever be open minded enough to indulge in a threesome with BD? A foursome? A foursome with one spare? An orgy? Any type of group sex at all?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 12:30 pm, 4th September 2017Thanks for all of the great comments! I didn’t anticipate so many questions, however, I’m going though all of the comments and will be posting the answers throughout the day.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 12:42 pm, 4th September 2017I actually never brought up the subject of a relationship with BD. It was BD who brought up the subject several times before I decided I wanted to move forward with a relationship with BD. I needed time to think about it because I had never considered getting serious at that time.
I was shocked actually that he only wanted an open relationship. He kind of sprung that on me and I didn’t know what to say. I initially agreed with it but I ended up thinking long and hard about it after he initially told me. We had another couple of discussions about it before I finally accepted the whole open relationship thing. There was never a debate, but there were rules that I requested before accepting, such as no bringing FB’s over to the house after I move in. I also requested that he cut down his FB’s to two rather than bunch.
I would say that that the longer you wait to tell a woman (your girlfriend, etc) than the harder it will be for them to accept the whole open relationship concept. If you choose to wait 6-12 months, that is your choice but I don’t think it would go over very well. The woman is already used to a normal relationship and if you spring it on her after 6-12 months she is likely to get upset, and be very confused. At that point she is likely to run for the hills. The only thing that I believe would keep her around is the fact that she really loves you and is willing to accept the open relationship because she doesn’t want to lose you. In my opinion though, I would tell her as soon as possible. There would be a lot less drama by telling her early on.
I don’t know anyone that has an open relationship. All of my friends have the normal monogamous marriages and many of them are going strong. I have two friends who have been with their husbands for 17 years and their marriages are not open. As you know, BD would say that those relationships are the exceptions, not the rule but I think monogamous relationships can work, though I think open relationships can work also.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 12:50 pm, 4th September 2017Before meeting BD, I had never thought about having a non-mono relationship. I had always assumed I would have a normal monogamous relationship/marriage. Now, that I have been with BD in a serious relationship for the last 15 months, I have realized this type of relationship can work.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 01:07 pm, 4th September 2017Honestly, I don’t like it when BD is in bed with another woman, unless I’m there watching 😉 I have learned to accept it though. I think jealousy is a normal part of being a human being; however, jealousy can be very bad if it causes drama and fights. I think being a little jealous that BD is with another woman is pretty normal. If I didn’t have a slight bit of jealously, I don’t think that would be normal.
I don’t know you or your wife, so I’m not sure how to advise. My opinion though it that your odds of changing your marriage to an open one is not good. You and your wife married as a monogamous, if you try and change it after 30 years I’m not sure if will go well. Maybe you and your wife could sit down and have a talk about it. Ask her how she would feel if you opened up the marriage. You never know, she may like the idea that she gets to fuck other men!
Sunshine
Posted at 02:30 pm, 4th September 2017Hey there PF, I see that you have a million questions already so I’ll try not to bombard you. Here goes….
1) So with this kind of marriage do you get married the regular way as in a civil partnership?
2) What happens if one of you ends up falling in love with their FB?
3) What’s your take on children? Are you planning on having some with BD or is that out of the question?
4)Depends on your answer for question #1. Isn’t it better to just have an open relationship without the worry of going through a divorce should things go pear shaped.
Finally I just wanna congratulate you guys on your union. Better you than me though, I’m too jealous. I might not cause fights but being an only child I don’t like to share my toys LOL
Peter
Posted at 02:33 pm, 4th September 2017BD has talked about his MBTI type being INTJ and I was wondering if you know what your MBTI type is? I’m not requesting you to take a test or anything, just a quick answer “yes, it’s X type” or “no, I’ve never tested myself” is enough for me.
Eugene
Posted at 03:13 pm, 4th September 2017Hey Pink Firefly,
This is more of a question to confirm something you said earlier – in BD’s case he says he generally only brings up the “talk” about an open relationship after a women brings it up and really demands an answer (and he says to wait to have the talk as long as possible).
In your case you’re saying that this wasn’t actually the case, and that in this open relationship it was actually BD that brought up having a relationship at all? (an open one in this case), rather than you asking where this was going, or needing to know what you were, etc?
This would make this particular situation different from what he normally says is the way things go no?
LibreMax
Posted at 03:43 pm, 4th September 2017Hello PinkFirefly,
Thank you for your participation this is very insightfull for me and courageous of you.
Caleb wrote that he poposed you to disclose the contents of his mobile to you, as long as you don’t start drama from this.
Could you please let us know:
-how often you took his offer and looked into his mobile?
-what were your motivations in these moments? Was it different motivations at different times? Were you looking for something specific?
-how did you feel about what you saw?
-have you ever had to struggle to keep your cool in one of these moments?
My best wishes for you and Caleb, lots of love 🙂
Pink Firefly
Posted at 04:17 pm, 4th September 2017I have no idea if I plan to be with other men and if so, how many. I’m not a big planner like BD is. We just got engaged, so I just have to see how things go. The good news is that I can be with other men if I want to. I asked BD to only have 2 FB’s on the side rather than many FB’s like he used to.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 04:26 pm, 4th September 2017I went into this relationship thinking that it could be forever. We plan to be married/OLTR marriage and I plan to be with him for a long time (forever if possible). I wouldn’t marry someone I didn’t see a long-term future with.
Any time you begin a relationship there is always the possibility that it could end. In my case this is a risk I’m willing to take with BD.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 04:34 pm, 4th September 2017Yes, true polyamory, where a group of people are all dating each other in real relationships (MLTR’s) is indeed a little more complicated. Some people enjoy those kinds of relationships, and if you do, then great. If not, you can follow my system which is more simple and manageable.
As usual with this stuff, it’s all really about the relationship types you prefer.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 04:40 pm, 4th September 2017I don’t think it matters whether I’m seeing other men, what matters is that I CAN see other men if I want to.
I admit, I get a little twinge of jealousy sometimes. It’s only natural though, however, my twinge of jealousy does not cause any drama between us. As far as BD and jealousy, well, he is not normal! BD has not expressed any type jealousy. When we have had discussions in the past about things, I have had to remind him that jealousy is very normal and that he could express a little jealousy. Again though, BD is not normal 🙂
LibreMax
Posted at 04:45 pm, 4th September 2017More questions for you PinkFirefly. Sexual intimacy this time.
Do you know when BD has sex with other women? How do you get this information? Does BD tell you before? Or do you ask him?
How precisely? Do you know the month? The week? The day? The hour? when this happens.
Based on your current experience (since you and BD decided to be OLTR fiancés, not before) how often do you think BD has sex with other women in one year approximately? (I am trying some kind of OLTR right now, she asked me how often, I said the order of magnitude is probably around 12 times per year, pretty surely more than 6 per year, could go up to 24, but pretty surely less than 40 times per year). How often do you guesstimate this will occur in one year after you move in together? What is the proportion of this sex with other women occurring in your presence?
What is the threshold number of BD having sex with other women per year that would be extremely uncomfortable for you but still bearable? Same question for total dealbreaker. (I have always been very open and don’t suffer much jealousy personally, but in the context of OLTR, while I would have no pb my partner having sex with other guys up to one time every week, I think I would start to feel discomfort if it was more than 2 times per week, especially if she would start being tired for me. If on the contrary she would be more horny and more up for all kind of group sexplorations including with other women, I would be happy. But yeah, more than 2 times per week is when I would need a specific outcome to not feel discomfort, up to 1 time per week is no pb regardless of the outcome – up to this frequency, I don’t believe it could impact negatively our sex bonding, if our sex bonding were of lesser frequency or quality it would be for reasons mostly unrelated to nonmonogamy I believe).
The next question is pretty much unrelated to the specifics of the relationship with BD, and only concern your general insight as a woman.
I believe it’s important to give women at least one orgasm every time I have sex, or very often, if I want them to come back for more. Do you feel this makes a difference? Are the contexts of FB, MLTR and OLTR different in this aspect for you?
Most of the time I give women clitoris orgasms. I also did give G-spot orgasms to some of the women, the kind of orgasm that makes the woman ejaculate, or ‘squirt’. Mostly with fingers, I encountered only one or 2 women who were ‘natural squirter’, who ejaculated with nothing more special than regular vaginal intercourse. However, I don’t systematically try it to give this kind of G-spot/squirting orgasm to every women. Do you think giving also this type of orgasms significantly increases the odds of women coming back for more sex/relationship? It’s not even clear to me if women enjoy very much or crave this feeling of squirting. Most women don’t have the know how to do this, I managed to ‘teach’ it to some, but some just can’t. And when they can, some women sometimes explicitly said it makes them feel more tired afterwards and they some days refused to squirt because of that. Whereas it’s pretty clear to me that virtually all women crave clitoris orgasms, and I extremely rarely had women decline a clitoris orgasm. How do you personally feel about squirting/G-spot orgasms? How does it compare with clitoris orgasms for you. Do you crave both of them equally? Or differently? How?
Happy and sexy relationship to you and BD <3
Pink Firefly
Posted at 04:56 pm, 4th September 2017BD might have declared that we have an open relationship but that did not give me the urge to run out and find sex partners.
I went into this relationship planning on forever. I don’t look into statistics like BD does on how long these relationships last, I look at are what we can each contribute to our relationship. I think as long as we both try our best than that’s all I ask. If we don’t work than so what, at least I know that we both had tried.
I have had 3 serious relationships prior to meeting BD.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:27 pm, 4th September 2017This is a good question!
My opinion on this is that if a couple has already married under a monogamous relationship, I think it should stay monogamous unless both parties can sit down and talk about the possibility of opening the relationship. I understand the fact that many people cheat, but if you marry someone under the terms of a monogamous relationship than you should still keep it monogamous regardless. If both parties agree to an open marriage, than that’s great. I can understand that opening a marriage up after many, many years of marriage would be a benefit due to the boredom factor and it could bring excitement back. I can also see that many times both parties in a marriage would not agree to an open relationship as well. Sometimes, marriages just need a little spark once in a while rather than just opening the marriage completely. Instead, a couple could bring in another person to play with for the night, or maybe they could go to a sex club. Sometimes, monogamous relationships just needs a little spark now and again, while other couples need to actually open the marriage up completely. I know several married, monogamous couples that have added a little spark here and there and it has done wonders for their marriage. I do think each situation and couple is very different though.
P.S I already know BD will not agree with this!
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:29 pm, 4th September 2017Beauty is pain, buddy. Beauty is pain.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:32 pm, 4th September 2017BD is more qualified to answer this question. I haven’t done any research on that. I don’t really have an opinion on this.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:52 pm, 4th September 2017I honestly can’t see BD or any other man looking at a new woman and thinking, “She’s hot, but wait, she’s not as hot as my OLTR, so I better pass!” I just don’t think people work that way.
I have not seen any of BD’s FB’s from head to toe, so I can’t tell you whether they are hot or not. Check with me at a later date, I might have more information then:)
I can tell you I usually disagree with BD’s view on men and women. He is pretty blunt and sometimes not very sensitive to people’s feelings. I do understand though, this blog is for men so I can’t completely get upset. I don’t care to read about politics much, so it doesn’t bother me what he says about those topics.
Steve
Posted at 05:53 pm, 4th September 2017Hello Miss Firefly,
What does Caleb really think of the people that post on his blog? Does he tell you that they’re mostly idiots, but he tolerates them since they give him money?
Do the initials B.D. stand for anything else besides “Black Dragon”?
Would you consider dating a man that posts at this blog to test how good his jealousy tolerance really is? 🙂
Pink Firefly
Posted at 06:07 pm, 4th September 2017I’m pretty normal and have had FB’s in the past just like everyone else. I don’t have a rule about not having FB’s, but in the past I would prefer to have a serious relationship rather than an FB. And yes, as BD has mentioned before, I started out as an FB.
BD has shared stores about his past relationships and about his current FB’s when I ask. I have also told him about my past relationships. I actually like to hear about his current FB’s.
Actually, I am a big breasted blonde. I’m already what he likes 🙂 I would tell him to bring me a big breasted blonde home for me 🙂
I love threesomes 🙂 I like watching 🙂 I’m not interested in anything beyond that in terms of group sex. As for the future, you never know.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 06:16 pm, 4th September 2017BD and I have talked about it and he says a percentage of the commenters are dumbasses but most are not. BD does really like money, you are correct!
Hmmm…BD stands for Big Dick, Bad Diet and Big Daddy (sometimes) 😉
Yes, let’s do it. Give me your number. But, you need to have six pack abs and have at least 9 inches on that bad boy 😉
Pink Firefly
Posted at 06:30 pm, 4th September 2017I don’t see BD falling in love with any of his FB’s. His FB’s are young and immature. BD has always said he would never have a serious relationship with someone who is young. His FB’s are pretty erratic, so I think it would be difficult to fall in love with these women (girls).
BD and I talked and we decided we are not going to have children. BD already has 2 grown children which satisfies our needs. We look forward to possible grand-children down the road. Also, I feel I’m too old to start having children at this point.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 06:34 pm, 4th September 2017I am an ESFP, the exact opposite of BD which makes our attraction really crazy good. However, we had to deal with some communication differences last year because we are so different in the way we communicate.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 06:39 pm, 4th September 2017I can’t really answer this question since I don’t know what BD normally does. BD will have to clarify.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 07:01 pm, 4th September 2017I have only asked to look at his phone 3 times during our entire relationship. I have not seen his phone in several months. When I asked to look at his phone I was curious and wanted to see what he was talking about with his FB’s. I wasn’t looking for anything specific. I had never had an open relationship before, so I wanted to see how he was communicating with his FB’s.
I admit, I got a little jealous but mostly what I have read wasn’t very exciting. I’m allowed to ask a few questions after looking at his phone and there was one time where I had a ton of questions. He answered most but, I realized I had to stop asking questions and let it go otherwise, it would have lead to an argument.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 07:29 pm, 4th September 2017As I’ve said before, not all FB/MLTR/OLTR relationships exactly follow the step-by-step system I outline. In some relationships, certain steps are skipped. In other relationships certain steps are repeated. In others, some steps happen way too soon or way too late, and so on.
In most relationships, the sequence usually goes like this:
1. FB or MLTR; don’t verbalize anything, don’t answer questions, keep doing this for at least 3 months, though longer is better.
2. When she keeps pestering you and she doesn’t stop, have The Talk.
3. Wait a few more months, then have The OLTR Talk (which is different from The Talk) but only if you wish to upgrade her from MLTR to OLTR.
In my relationship with PF, the sequence was a little different and went like this:
1. FB for a year; she never asked about other women though I made it clear I was dating many others, first via my EFA and later verbally.
2. Break for about a year (where we didn’t see each other but kept in touch occasionally).
2. MLTR for several months; she assumed I was still seeing other people because she knew me that well.
4. I proposed getting more serious. When she agreed, we had The Talk (though it was barely a talk since she already knew me so well), then a few months later had the OLTR Talk.
5. OLTR became official.
Punjabi Stud
Posted at 07:32 pm, 4th September 2017Hi Pike Firefly! first of all I think you are really awesome for doing this you seem like a really cool open minded person in general!
1) In your open/poly marriage would you be down to see a 20yr old guy whos really good looking/amazing body and who likes older women/”milfs” in general? just curious since im 20, good looking but love women 25-35yrs of age lol. Like whats ur open mindness with that if the younger guy approached you in person/and asked you if you want to go for a drink
2) Only if you dont mind me asking, Do you “see” with other guys currently on the side?
3) if so or not, when the girl is in the open relationship but lives together with the guy, how can the girl sleep with other guys if the rules BD made is to not see the other people in person who u sleep with, do you just go to the guys house (and does BD go to the girl place?)
4) are you down with threesomes ever? have u ever explained ur open marriage with family and friends? or do they think on the outside “its a regular marriage” then u keep the openness to yourselves? thanks!
Pink Firefly
Posted at 07:37 pm, 4th September 2017I don’t know when BD has sex with someone else unless I ask him. I usually assume he will have sex with FB’s one a week. BD does not tell me when he plans to have sex with his FB unless I ask him directly. I never know the hour it will actually happen nor do I know the exact day. He doesn’t have a specific day he sees an FB. BD never has sex with anyone else in my presence unless it’s planned and I get to watch 🙂 I feel more comfortable with BD only having sex with a FB once a week.
Yes, I feel it’s important to give woman orgasms. I think it makes a big difference, as more woman will keep coming back for more. Nothing sucks more than a guy who just get’s himself off and goes to sleep leaving the woman unsatisfied. As far as BD making FB’s orgasm, I’m not excited about it. It’d rather he just satisfy himself and then leave, but that’s not realistic. If BD, want’s to continue to seeing the FB he knows he has to make her orgasm most of the time. The bottom line is, the more you give the more they will continue to come back.
I can’t answer any of the questions in regards to women “squirting, ” as I know nothing about that nor do I know any woman who actually “squirts.” I don’t think this is very common for women to do. I leave the “squirting” to the men.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 08:01 pm, 4th September 2017People are really terrified about this so I have an article going up on the blog about this soon. The bottom line answer is that this is not a threat unless you blatantly violate the rules of the OLTR. In other words, you or your partner start actually dating and spending time with FB’s instead of just fucking them. Which is stupid.
Yep, instead you’ll just cause a fight when you find out one of your toys is being played with behind your back.
Remember, monogamy doesn’t work. People cheat.
I have a detailed article going up that covers this in great detail. Most of it is already written. I’ll post it after PF moves in with me in a few weeks.
People’s feelings can suck my ding dong.
I like doing.
Exactly. Many Alphas Male 1.0’s, when they first read that I allowed this, imagined some screeching, Dominant, hyper-jealous, high-drama ASD bitch constantly demanding to see my phone, and me cowering like a little beta pussy, saying “Yes dear!!!” and constantly handing it over with trembling hands.
Only a moron would assume I would ever be in a serious relationship with a woman even remotely close to something like that, or that I would behave in such a way.
Stupid. But as I said about a certain small percentage of my readers…
Kevin
Posted at 08:07 pm, 4th September 2017Hi PF since being in a relationship with BD have you found it easier to work on your personal goals and or life mission? have learned more or changed your mind about finances or debt ?
Do you have any new celebrities or public figures that you admire, who seeks to do things you can admire
Thank you
LeoRio
Posted at 08:24 pm, 4th September 2017Hi PF,
Is BD could really transforms to a BRUTAL Sex MANIAC, a drolling HORNY DOG with Insatiable Libido.. EVERYTIME he had sex with you?
Or is it just his online persona?
Bruno
Posted at 08:44 pm, 4th September 2017BD said he is average. This is a matter of utmost importance, because I have a suspicion his entire dating system is based on having BD. BD, care to clarify?
Alexander
Posted at 08:45 pm, 4th September 2017My question is actually aimed at both BD and PF:
Short version; I’d like more info about when BD brought up being in a relationship
BD: what were your thoughts leading up to the decision and more importantly, the process and conversation that happened when you brought it up?
What were some of the things discussed and some of your thoughts afterwards?
PF: From what I’ve read you seemed a little surprised by it? What were some of the things that you felt when he brought it up? What can you tell us about the experience as a whole from your perspective? What made you decide to be in an open relationship?
Stuff like that. I’d just like as much info as possible about the talk transition and about what happened in this one in particular as it’s different from what BD has planned out. And what made it so successful
Thanks in advance!
Pink Firefly
Posted at 09:43 pm, 4th September 2017I don’t have a life mission, I think as BD has explained in the past, men tend to do those more than women do. I have always had goals I set for myself, even before being in a relationship with BD. However, being with BD has helped me reach some of my goals much faster. Thanks to BD’s support, I now own a travel business. I admit, BD is very good with setting up budgets in order to help pay off debt faster. He has helped me set up a faster plan to paying off my debt.
I admire Ellen DeGeneres, she has made a ton of money but she doesn’t act like a snobby celebrity. She seriously cracks me up!
Pink Firefly
Posted at 09:49 pm, 4th September 2017Haha! No, it’s not just his online persona, he really is a horny sex maniac. I promise. 🙂
Pink Firefly
Posted at 09:58 pm, 4th September 2017Yes, I was very surprised when he told me he was non-monogamous. I knew BD had been previously dating other people, but when he said he wanted to get serious with me I had no idea it would be an open relationship. It took me a while to think about it and officially decide to be serious with him from the get-go. I also did a lot of thinking about the whole open relationship thing when we had the “talk.” I really had to give it some thought. Even when I told him “yes,” I was honestly still thinking about it. I thought that I should give the whole open relationship a try, as I might really like it. I also really liked BD so I thought I would try it and see if it could work. I am not the kind of person who takes risks very often and I don’t like change, so for once in my life I thought I would take a risk. I’m very glad I took that risk.
Punjabi Stud
Posted at 10:31 pm, 4th September 20171) In your open/poly marriage would you be down to see a 20yr old guy in theory whos really good looking/amazing body and who likes older women/”milfs” in general? just curious since im 20, good looking but love women 25-35yrs of age lol. Like whats ur open mindness with that if the younger guy approached you in person/and asked you if you want to go for a drink .
2) have u ever explained ur SOON TO BEopen marriage with family and friends? or do they think on the outside “its a regular marriage” then u keep the openness to yourselves? thanks!
The Jury
Posted at 12:59 am, 5th September 2017PF, have you ever know when BD is lying to you?
*I never ask BD this, since there’s always “self-proclaimed issue” bias.
venom
Posted at 03:46 am, 5th September 2017Hey PF, first of all thank you for sharing your experience, very insightful.
I just upgraded a girl to OLTR so it helps a lot to refer to this from the perspective of another woman.
1) What are the relationship rules in your OLTR with BD?
You likely handed out some rules for BD, how flexible was he in accepting your rules, especially when they differed from what he usually does?
2) How do you communicate about other partners? To what extend does BD answer your questions about other girls? Does he ever ask about other men?
If you started an FB relationship on the side, would you tell BD about it and if so, when?
Also BD could you clarify, when is it ok to talk to your OLTR about other women or is it never a good idea?
3) Have you ever been soft-nexted during the OLTR and if so, how did you feel about it during and after the soft next?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 08:43 am, 5th September 2017Personally, I’m not into younger men. I know a lot of women who are into younger men, however, it’s not my thing. If I was approached by a hot 20 year old, I would be flattered but I would turn the guy down.
My parents know about the open relationship (they have read some of BD’s blog in the past). My friends don’t know I have an open relationship. If anyone of my friends asks, I won’t lie otherwise, it’s really none of anyone’s business what we do in our marriage.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 08:47 am, 5th September 2017BD does not lie, he makes that very clear. BD is very open and honest about everything. I know that whenever I ask him a question he will be very straightforward with me.
LibreMax
Posted at 08:51 am, 5th September 2017Thank you very much PinkFirefly for your answers 🙂
Dafid
Posted at 08:54 am, 5th September 2017Dang this is crazy!
Pink Firefly
Posted at 09:05 am, 5th September 2017We have set some rules as far as FB’s coming to the house. BD is not allowed to have FB’s come to the house after I move in. Nor is he allowed to fuck an FB in our bedroom and drive around with an FB. We have set some rules about our communication, as we have different communication styles. When we have a disagreement we only try to resolve it for about ten minutes and if we can’t come to some resolution we stop and talk about it another day so it doesn’t turn into a heated argument. There will be some rules when I move in, but we haven’t discussed those yet.
BD has been somewhat flexible in rules I wanted to set. We would discuss them and often times he would need time to think about it. Sometimes he agrees and sometimes he does not.
Anytime I ask him a question about his FB, he generally answers. He does not like to talk a lot about them though. BD feels that if I start asking a ton of questions about his FB’s I might get upset and start drama, so he will usually answer just a few questions at a time. I have asked BD a ton of questions about is current FB’s over a long period of time, so I feel I know a lot about them.
If I had an FB on the side, I would have no problem telling BD. BD wouldn’t care and he wouldn’t ask questions. If I wanted to talk to him about it, I know he would listen.
I don’t think I’ve ever actually been soft-nexted. I know last year we had a big fight and he turned off his phone for several hours.
GoodSense3
Posted at 09:19 am, 5th September 2017Thanks for the opportunity Pink FireFly. My Questions are super-interesting I know lol.
1. If their was a vote to make prostitution legal by this upcoming saturday in every state in U.S like a lot of other countries and vegas. Would you vote yes or no? What percentage of women do you think will vote no or yes? What percentage of men do you think will vote no or yes?
2. I have did a lot of research on what men say about women around the world. How come women in U.S have worst reputation worldwide it seems when it comes to pleasing men? How come women in international spanish/portuguese speaking places like Brazil, Dominican Republic, Thailand(English Speaking), Mexico, Colombia seem to have the best reputations when it comes to pleasing men?
3. Have you ever told a men “thank you” after 1st time sex or even 2nd, 3rd, etc lol cause you thought is was that good? Me and my friends have never heard this come out of any of the chicks mouth after sex in America and we’ve had sex with at least plus 10 each of us in U.S, but it took me a trip to Mexico for me to hear a chick tell me “thank you” after sex. It memorized me. Why aren’t women in U.S more thankful and less willing to tell a men thank you after sex lol?
4. Is Doggystyle your favorite sex position? Why or Why not?
5. What advice would you give a men to have safe oral sex without a condom as far as recieving a bj and eating her vjay? lol
6. Do you think women have more sexual fantasies than men?
Harry Flashman
Posted at 09:54 am, 5th September 2017PF, thank you for engaging in this colloquy. It’s fascinating.
Is the non-mono relationship with BD YOUR ideal or if you could, would you prefer to be in a traditional, monogamous relationship with him?
Magok
Posted at 10:44 am, 5th September 2017How about your feelings? Is BD a cold guy? What problems in the relationships you both had to face and how did you overcome them?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:46 am, 5th September 2017When PF says something like BD stands for Big Dick, that’s called a “joke” or “sarcasm.” Here’s a link to a dictionary website for a description of what those terms mean:
http://www.dictionary.com/
Yep, you nailed it. My entire dating system hinges solely on the size of a man’s penis. Obviously none of my relationship techniques or techniques on a first date (as just two examples) will work at all if your cock is small. If your cock isn’t at least monster-size, there is no hope for you, you’ll never get laid, and you might as well become a monk, or worse, monogamous. Good observation.
That I was attracted to her emotionally rather than just physically (physical attraction is easy; emotional attraction is hard, at least for me) and that she met all the requirements for a woman I wanted long-term in my life, such as low drama, the proper age (I wanted someone in my age range), lower ASD for an over 33, didn’t want children, etc.
There was no conversation initially. One day I just looked into her eyes and said, “You should be with me.” She was surprised (because of my usual 85/15 non-serious EFA) and even a little embarrassed. Later I told her about the nonmonogamy thing, but again, there was no big Talk other than me just saying that and her asking a few questions. She didn’t object. (There were some other complications/aspects to this but I can’t get into those since they have to do with PF’s personal life back then.)
A few months later we had the big OLTR Talk, where I laid out everything good and bad for a woman who chooses to be with me long term, so she could make a proper decision. Examples of a few of the “bad” items were the nonmonogamy, that I’m a (controversial) public figure and that might be hard for any future GF/wife of mine, that I’m leaving the USA in 2025 no matter what with or without her, I can be a blunt asshole, that I’m a workaholic on my Mission and that will never change, etc.
I also had her tell me everything about her good and bad, including all of her darkest secrets, so I could make a proper decision about if I wanted to be with her. This was hard for her, and something she has never done before with any other man (or person). The entire conversation worked well, and we made it official as soon as we were done that day.
As above. My thoughts afterwards were, now the hard part begins. She’ll have to become accustomed to my hatred of any drama whatsoever (a very alien thing as compared to most men), soft nexting, my blunt communication style, how to be in a nonmono relationship with a man you’re serious with, etc. I wasn’t worried, since PF is a capable person; I just knew there would be an adjustment period for her (and me as well). And I was right.
She was actually going to write more, but she’s a very polite and appropriate person. 🙂
That’s very accurate. I always tell her anything she wants to know and I’m always honest about it, but I also recognize that she’s a much more sensitive and emotional person than me and I hate even tiny drips of drama, so I try to temper the amount of data I disclose at once. As time has gone by she’s been more and more comfortable with this stuff; there’s definitely a huge difference now than a year ago, for example. I tell her a lot more stuff these days (if she asks) than I did a year ago, though as she indicated, she pretty much knows everything at this point.
For those of you reading this, the dynamics of every OLTR is different from couple to couple. Some OLTR couples never, ever talk about this stuff. Other OLTR couples talk about it constantly and go into great sexual detail about everything they do on the side, and both parties enjoy the discussion; even get turned on by it. PF and I live at a mid-point between these two extremes, with several notches towards the more open end.
Late last year (I think?), while we were still figuring out our two very, very different (pretty much opposite) communication styles and personalities, I had to give her two very brief soft nexts where I walked out of her apartment, turned off my phone, and went home. It was hard for both of us (first-time soft nexts with someone you really care about always are), but since then we’ve both figured out how we communicate, calibrated accordingly (I’m less blunt, she’s more calm), and we haven’t had any major problems since.
Once she moves in, soft nexting will be impossible, so I have to make sure she’s one calm, cool chick with a long track record of extremely low drama before I make that move. So far things have been fine.
A lot of you guys seem to be under the impression that PF is a dating expert / social commentator like I am. She isn’t. She’s a normal person, not a manosphere geek like many of us are (including me). She’s an intelligent woman but many of these social issues questions you guys are asking her are things she has no great knowledge, interest, or opinions on. Feel free to ask her whatever you like, but don’t expect any detailed “manosphere” answers from her; that isn’t who she is.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 11:47 am, 5th September 2017After having been reading some of the comments on this blog for some time I can only say that this use of words is very gentle.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:54 am, 5th September 2017You’re making the common mistake of letting the few commenters you really dislike stand out in your memory. Most are intelligent, reasonably objective men. The dumbasses / crazies are the standouts, not the majority.
I’d stack my commenters, on the overall, against the commenters of ***any other manosphere blog,*** any time.
Rafal
Posted at 12:00 pm, 5th September 2017BD, where are you going to meet your FBs after PF moves in? FBs home, hotel, car, or do you have an apartment (secondary location)?
PS Maybe in your garden? Technically it isn’t home so it doesn’t count haha.
R
Posted at 12:10 pm, 5th September 2017BD and PF – Thanks for doing this, guys.
I have 2 questions for you, PF:
1. Could you tell us a bit of the backstory on how you first met BD?
2. Could you tell us what aspects/qualities of BD you were most initially attracted to? Any qualities you were initially unattracted to but later changed your mind on? I’ve read a lot of BD’s content so I think I have a good idea of the answer, but it’d be great to hear it in your words.
Cherie86
Posted at 12:14 pm, 5th September 2017Pink Firefly,
I will be interested to see how you handle BD seeing his FB when you both live together. As a woman in a OLTR (we have been living together for over a year) I find that I struggle sometimes when he leaves me at home to go out with one of his FB. Most of the time, it doesn’t bother me at all, but I find there are occasions where it can get to me if I don’t get a handle on my emotions and make a conscious effort to do things to make me happy. Sometimes this is just pampering myself at home, reading that book I haven’t had a chance to pickup again, or if its not a work night, I’ll go out as well.
(I am just waiting for the time that I run into him somewhere out with his FBs in public, he hasn’t figured out how to deal with that yet, lol)
Do you anticipate having those same struggles? How do you plan on handling those situations?
bloop
Posted at 12:35 pm, 5th September 2017Hi PF!
I believe BD mentioned he might share a photo of you at some point! Assuming none of your personal information is provided along with it, would you mind sharing one with us? Or maybe a neck-down photo if you’re not wanting your face to be revealed?
P.S. You can wear those “painful” pink heels, haha. 😉
Thanks either way for sharing on BD’s blog!
Bulma78
Posted at 12:38 pm, 5th September 2017If nobody minds, I am pretty well qualified to step in and answer this one. Never in a million years would I think that this was something that was even real; I thought it was just made up or that people said it to act cool, but it is very real (and rare I’m sure)! I don’t know if it happening is related to the person or if it would just happen with anybody. Maybe because I’m getting older and changing? I feel like it has to do with the other person though and what they are doing is causing it to happen. I don’t seem to have any control over whether it happens or not, but now that it has happened so many times I’m starting to realize that it will always happen at a certain angle. I can see how some women might crave the feeling of it. I don’t crave or look forward to the feeling of it, but, I mean yah, when it’s happening it’s a very good feeling. If I had to pick only one though, I’d pick the traditional version over the squirting version.
Punjabi Stud
Posted at 12:40 pm, 5th September 2017im wondering the same as Rafal ^^
and thanks Pink firefly
Eldm
Posted at 12:45 pm, 5th September 2017Hi PF, thanks for doing this.
I have 4 questions for you, all of which are pretty personal:
1) At what age did you loose your virginity (with whom)?
2) How many male sexual partners have you’ve had?
3) How is your relationship with your father?
4) Are your parents still together?
POB
Posted at 01:17 pm, 5th September 2017Oh man, takes some balls to put your woman up front like this (no disrespect to PF btw). Kudos to both of you guys, I know this is not easy to do and you must be extremely well and strong in the relationship to do that. Congrats!
PF, just some quick practical questions as I’m not really a fan of Caleb’s soap opera posts:
1) I know it’s you who’s planning the wedding, but how’s BD taking it all (party, family, friends, bunch of SP, heaps of attention, etc)?
2) Do you guys ever spend any nights together without having sex?
3) Do you see any real positives in an OLTR model besides the fact that you can be with whoever you like and not loose BD because of it?
4) Are you into sports, fitness and diet? If so, how’s the challenge of being with a guy who struggles (cheats?) in some of those areas?
Lovergirl
Posted at 01:29 pm, 5th September 20171. Why would you show your parents this blog?
2. How do you feel about him pursuing other women, as in being out there on dating sites and dating again? Eventually whatever two fuck buddies you have limited him to are going to burn out and need to be replaced. Does the idea of him “dating” women to get to that point again bother you?
3. Am I reading correctly that you watch him have sex with other women? Do you enjoy the female equivalent of being cuckholded?
4. Do you hope that one day he will change his mind and be monogamous?
5. Does it bother you that he isn’t jealous? Do you think his lack of jealousy right now is because you aren’t sleeping with other men? Do you think that would change if you did?
6. Do his fuck buddies know about you? How do you think they feel about it?
7. Are you at all embarrassed about dating a guy that openly tells people he is fucking around? Has anyone given you flack for this?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:53 pm, 5th September 2017Lovergirl – watch the tone. Last warning.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 01:56 pm, 5th September 2017Aw, that’s an amazing compliment. Thank you! 🙂
Peter
Posted at 02:14 pm, 5th September 2017BD thank you for allowing this to take place and thank you Pink Firefly for answering all these questions. It’s quite insightful to hear your side of the story and getting confirmation on your MBTI type.
I wish I could offer you two something back but I suppose you will have to do with my appreciation… and money because I’m a customer, heh.
CDx
Posted at 02:20 pm, 5th September 2017BD: How many months after “the talk” did you wait until you had the OLTR talk with PF?
Would it have been different if PF initiated a committment talk with you first? Becoming more serious, gf/fb status, where is this going, even marriage, etc.
PF: Were you content with being a MLTR? What did this mean to you?
LibreMax
Posted at 02:31 pm, 5th September 2017Thanks Bulma78 for the answer.
To clarify, do you experience it with vaginal intercourse also or only with finguers? Also can you comment about feeling more tired after squirting than after clitoris orgasm. Is that something you feel also or no, it doesn’t make you feel more ‘tired’ afterwards?
Indeed the angle is very important, because it has to stimulate the G-spot. Most women have the reflex to keep it in, and in the worst cases it could apparently cause some kind of afterward unpleasant feeling similar to cystitis/lower track UTI. So my understanding is that the woman has to ‘let go’. My OLTR even says she has to ‘push’. Some women just naturally ‘push’ during vaginal intercourse and are thus more likely to experience squirting. It’s much easier for me to make it happen with fingers. I have ever had one women in a swinger club. guide me through thethe process of doing it with my finger, she told me where to push and how and in a very short time she was already squirting, like one minute maybe.
There are some videos about “How to female ejaculate”, I watched the one by Deborah Sundhal, it’s very well explained and features scenes of 2 or 3 women actually trying it, including one who doesn’t manage to ejaculate during the video, and is interviewed weeks or months after and she explains that she finally managed later, amd tries to nail what was ‘blocking’ her from ejaculating. I guess some other vides dare good too. The anatomy is shown with graphics and a ot of explanatioms from the women on what they do and how it feels.
Definitelly all women can squirt/ejaculate, it’s supposed to happen naturally. But most women don’t ejaculate because they repress it unconsciously. Some may release it afterwards in the toilets or shower. Some may believe it’s pee, which it isn’t. Also it’s prettly inconvenient to squirt in the bedsheets… Some may also fear that it will freak out the guy they are having sex with. The block is not biological in general, it’s mostly psychological.
LibreMax
Posted at 02:35 pm, 5th September 2017Thanks Bulma78 for the answer.
To clarify, do you experience it with vaginal intercourse also or only with finguers? Also can you comment about feeling more tired after squirting than after clitoris orgasm. Is that something you feel also or no, it doesn’t make you feel more ‘tired’ afterwards?
Indeed the angle is very important, because it has to stimulate the G-spot. Most women have the reflex to keep it in, and in the worst cases it could apparently cause some kind of afterward unpleasant feeling similar to cystitis/lower track UTI. So my understanding is that the woman has to ‘let go’. My OLTR even says she has to ‘push’. Some women just naturally ‘push’ during vaginal intercourse and are thus more likely to experience squirting. It’s much easier for me to make it happen with fingers. I have ever had one women in a swinger club. guide me through thethe process of doing it with my finger, she told me where to push and how and in a very short time she was already squirting, like one minute maybe.
There are some videos about “How to female ejaculate”, I watched the one by Deborah Sundhal, it’s very well explained and features scenes of 2 or 3 women actually trying it, including one who doesn’t manage to ejaculate during the video, and is interviewed weeks or months after and she explains that she finally managed later, amd tries to nail what was ‘blocking’ her from ejaculating. I guess some other vides dare good too. The anatomy is shown with graphics and a ot of explanatioms from the women on what they do and how it feels.
Definitelly all women can squirt/ejaculate, it’s supposed to happen naturally. But most women don’t ejaculate because they repress it unconsciously. Some may release it afterwards in the toilets or shower. Some may believe it’s pee, which it isn’t. Also it’s prettly inconvenient to squirt in the bedsheets… Some may also fear that it will freak out the guy they are having sex with. The block is not biological in general, it’s mostly psychological.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 02:40 pm, 5th September 2017Not sure; it was quite a while ago when I first brought this stuff up. I think three or four.
It would not depend on whether she did that, but when she did that. If a woman throws this stuff at you too soon, you need to blow it off and delay those kinds of talks for as long as you can, particularly if she’s relatively new. PF and I had already been seeing each other well over a year (first as FB then as MLTR) before any of this stuff came up, which makes things a lot easier.
If she had initiated that kind of thing too early, I would have delayed it.
She can give you her own answer to that question, but she had no idea she was a “MLTR.” There is no “MLTR Talk.” You just do it. I never said to her, “Okay PF, as of now you are no longer a FB, you are a MLTR! Congratulations!” That’s not how it works. We were just seeing each other; that’s it.
Lovergirl
Posted at 02:44 pm, 5th September 2017That wasn’t any kind of “tone”, it was a legit question- she said she likes watching and implied not participating. There are lots of people that are into that, you see it a ton in the swinger community.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:06 pm, 5th September 2017You have some very interesting questions. I’m not much into political issues nor do I research statistics like BD does, so I don’t have any answers to those types of questions.
A woman can be a prostitute if she wants however, I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea. Most women don’t grow up thinking they want to be a prostitute, I think it sometimes ends up being something they have to do to make ends meet. If I had to vote, I would probably choose no on making prostitute legal. It makes me sad that young girls get into prostitution which then often leads to drug use and pregnancies.
I have no idea why women in the U.S. have the worst reputation when it come to pleasing men, I can only guess. Maybe it’s our culture, we don’t feel the need to bow down to men like other cultures. I suppose U.S. women feel they are on an equal playing field to men, they feel men and women should be pleasuring each other equally. Women in the U.S may not the best at pleasing men compared to women in other countries, however, I think they still do a lot of pleasing and do quite a good job:)
No, I have not told a man “thank you” after first time sex or after any sex at all. I think it sounds a little weird to say “thank you” for that sort of thing. I think it would be weird if a man said “thank you” as well. I would usually say “that was great” if the sex was good. It’s not that women are not thankful, it’s just that it sounds really weird to say it that way.
I think men and women both have a lot of sexual fantasies. Every person is different though. I don’t think I have had anywhere near the amount of sexual fantasies BD has had. Though, BD and I are older now, we have fulfilled many of those fantasies prior to meeting each other.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:17 pm, 5th September 2017The non-monogamous was all BD, I had never even thought about being in an open relationship prior to meeting him. If I had a choice, I would choose to be monogamous, however, that is not realistic. Although having a non-monogamous relationship was not my first choice, after being involved in an open-relationship with BD, I know now that it can work.
CDx
Posted at 05:21 pm, 5th September 2017Yes, I understand that. What is considered too early?
How long is a girl usually OK to just “see” each other? From my experience, they usually want to define the relationship after dating for a couple months; usually before the 1-year mark. Would a girl stay if I tried to delay it out for more than a year? It would be great if BD and PF can answer this question as I’m interested in learning both perspectives and experiences.
And PF: How long would you have stayed in the “just seeing” phase with BD until you wanted to get more serious with him? If he didn’t bring it up, would you have initiated it? If so, when?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:25 pm, 5th September 2017Sometimes BD hurts my feelings because he is so blunt, but he has gotten much better about that. I really don’t think he intentionally tries to hurt my feeling though.
The problems we have had to overcome was our different communication styles and that fact that I had to get used to him seeing FB’s on the side. We have improved in how we communicate with each other by setting a time limit on any discussions we don’t agree on so it won’t end up turning into a huge fight.
Over time, I have gotten used to the whole FB thing. He usually sees the same ones over and over, there aren’t any new ones consistently coming in, which makes me feel better about it.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 05:39 pm, 5th September 2017Before three months. The Talk is only for women who have been dating you consistently for at least 3 months. Longer is better, but 3 months in the minimum. Having The Talk, or any real discussion about the relationship, prior to 3 months is usually going to blow up in your face.
That varies strongly from woman to woman, based mostly on age and personality. I’ve had women go an entire year before they even brought it up. I’ve had other women start pushing hard within 6 weeks (though with my EFA that’s pretty rare). Generally speaking, women over age 33 and under age 24 will start pushing sooner. Women between ages 25 and about 28 will wait longer, as I talked about here.
Correct. 2-3 months is about an average before women start pushing for The Talk (only for MLTR’s though… FB’s rarely need The Talk).
Most would not. Go for 5 months, 3 months if that fails, but no sooner than that.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 05:49 pm, 5th September 2017I’ll have much more to say about that later, but the items you listed are all possibilities, as well as many others. It’s not big deal.
CDx
Posted at 05:58 pm, 5th September 2017Thanks BD, your responses are very helpful.
To clarify, I’m talking about delaying the OLTR talk. Is this what you mean as well?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 06:15 pm, 5th September 2017No. I’m talking about The Talk. The OLTR Talk is never required for anyone. I’ve dated scores of women and only had the OLTR Talk with two of them. All the rest dated me for years and years (sometimes inconsistently, with LSFNTEs) with no OLTR Talk ever.
Women never demand the OLTR Talk. I think you’re mixing up women’s demand for The Talk with the OLTR Talk. The women you’re talking about are demanding The Talk, not full open relationship girlfriend status. (And if you really are encountering lots of women who are demanding you make them their girlfriend and absolutely nothing else, then either your EFA is way off, or you’re dating a lot of over-33 provider hunters.)
LibreMax
Posted at 07:59 pm, 5th September 2017Kinda off topic but I want bounce on the American women topic. Actually my personal opinion is that it’s not only something about the women but more something about North American and sex in general.
I am european, from France. The culture in this part of europe is mostly Catholic (also Spain, Portugal, Italy, Poland. But NOT in UK and I believe NOT in the Scandinavian countries). Now I don’t feel tied to Catholicism and I don’t even like how it’s such and organised religion filled with lots of social programming. I even was atheist for most of my life. Now I do believe in the core teaching of the Christ, and of the Buddha, and if Inhad to choose only one, I tend to prefer how things are explaimed in Buddhism and the virtual total lack of social programming in Buddhism.
BUT I recognise that I am influenced by the culture and tradition of Catholicism.
My limited experience in north America (some swinging party, amd 5 women, 2 months in Vancouver BC and 2 months in L.A.), lead to the most ’emotionally/spiritually disconnected’ form of sex that I have ever experienced, compared to anywhere else. Also a few north american women are gorgeous, but most north american women are just not attractive for me: too tall and/or too fat. Whereas men in average seemed more physically attractive: a bit taller, and much more muscular. Dating was significantly more difficult for me partly also because I had a harder time getting enthousiastic about the profiles and women in the first dstes. People felt more emotionally disconnected also in social life. And of course people are more disconnected geographicaly, you meed a car to go everywhere. It seemed to me also that people where much more obsessed with work and money than anywhere else I have been.
In Vancouver, one woman was Filipina, and she also related to this ‘disconnectedness’ in sex with most men she dated there over the years. And also in the social life. We wondered if the cultural difference between Catholicism (which is in the Philippines and South America, and the european countries I cited above) and the other type of Christian (WASP?) culture which shaped the early north american culture (and puritanism) ,plays a role in this aspect.
For instance, I don’t feel it wierd at all to thank a sexual partner who goes the extra mile to please me, and I didn’t feel wierd that some women thanked me. This is a small detail easy to talk about, but there are much more things difficult to put in words, I beleieve they are related to this feeling of ‘disconnectedness’. Also it seemed to me that one night stands (as in having sex only once with someone) are much more frequent occurrences in North America than anywhere else I have been, which might also be an indicator of what I am talking about.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 08:10 pm, 5th September 2017It’s nice to hear about your experience!
I anticipate things will be similar to what is currently happening now. BD see’s his FB’s during the week while I’m at work generally. So, I assume he will be seeing them while I’m at work even when I move in with him. He has told me that weekends are for him and I, so he doesn’t see any FB’s on the weekends. I shouldn’t be running into BD and his FB’s anywhere, as he only fucks them and leaves. He doesn’t go on dates with them, that’s against the rules for FB’s. If anything, I’m waiting for the day BD and I run into one of his FB’s at the store or restaurant.
LibreMax
Posted at 08:10 pm, 5th September 2017I have no experince though with north american black women (I really wanted!). And I have never had sex with any south American woman. And when I said North American I ment Canada and US and excluded Mexico. It’s North America by opposition to Latin America that I meant.
I can definitely say, and most men who have experienced this country too, that in average women in the Philippines are some of the horniest and most sexually pleasing women on earth. I would say one order of magnitude more than Thai women. And 2 orders of magnitude more than North America. I am talking about FB and MLTR, NOT prostitution.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 08:12 pm, 5th September 2017I don’t think we are ready share a picture yet. I’m sure you’ll see a picture at some point though 🙂
Pink Firefly
Posted at 08:18 pm, 5th September 2017These are pretty personal questions, all of which have nothing to do with OLTR relationships or anything similar. I’m not sure why you want to know this information but I will be willing to answer a couple of these questions.
I lost my virginity right before my 20th birthday with a boyfriend I met in college.
My parents are not together, but both have remarried.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 08:37 pm, 5th September 2017I’m definitely the one planning the wedding 🙂 BD is taking it all pretty well. There has been some eye rolling and sticker shock on pricing on his end but overall it’s been good so far. He’s not very excited about having groomsmen and the whole traditional wedding stuff, but he’s getting through it. I think he’ll be glad when its over 🙂 Both of our families have been very exited about it all, so that’s been great.
Yes, BD and I have spent many nights together not having sex. We really do have a lot of fun outside the bedroom, we really enjoy each others company no matter what we do. I know that may sound cheesy, but it’s true. Sex is an added bonus 🙂
The model is good because we can see other people, which of course is the main reason. I think BD might be able to explain the other positives, as I’m still learning this type of model. Ask me this question later, I might have more to say then.
I’m not big into fitness. I used to go to the gym all of the time but have slacked off. I’m planning on going back. I have a huge sweet tooth so diet is a huge challenge for me as well as for BD.
rgz
Posted at 08:37 pm, 5th September 2017Does Black Dragon ever show a softer side or anything that might be called beta male behavior? He says he’s a not stop alpha male, and that is part of the persona relating to his business, but I suspect he has some moments where this is not the case.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:02 pm, 5th September 2017Yes, when PF moves in that’s exactly what I will try to do; see FB’s when she’s already not home for some reason (which will be reasonably easy, since she’s corporate gal so she works a lot, and I don’t plan on being with FB’s nearly as often as is the case historically).
I’m trying to minimize the occurrence of the scenario Cherie86 mentioned; the woman staying home, by herself, pining away, while she knows the man is out getting laid. I think that’s a little much for the typical woman to take (though I wouldn’t care if the roles were reversed). I’m not saying that will never happen, but I will do my best to manage that.
He’s trying to gauge your statistical odds of divorce in the context of a traditional marriage, since all four of those questions he asked are linked to the odds of a woman divorcing. He may not understand that I don’t “screen” women based on those factors, and that something traditional isn’t something I’m looking for, and that I have no delusions about the future.
I try very, very hard to be nice regarding all the details involved in something like this. Sometimes it’s difficult though.
Errr let me add some context to that. Just because we occasionally don’t have nights having sex doesn’t mean we didn’t have sex earlier that afternoon, or that morning, or the very next morning, etc. I’m a very high sex drive man; when I spend time with a woman I care about, sex is always happening at some point, even if we enjoy each other’s company when not having sex (which of course we do; she would not be my OLTR or my fiancé if that were not the case).
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 09:29 pm, 5th September 2017And every high sex drive man and woman cringed!
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 09:39 pm, 5th September 2017FYI – These 4 questions are typically questions asked by slut shamers and conservative prudes/purity fetishists for the purposes of determining whether you’re a so called “evil slut” or the type of “nice girl” who hates sex whom alpha male 1.0s want to settle down with and then be shocked when she cheats on them with a 2.0, thus motivating them to hunt for prudes in the third world.
Lovergirl
Posted at 09:41 pm, 5th September 2017Following Jack’s comment, I have another question-
How would you categorize your sex drive? Low, medium, high? From your comments it doesn’t sound that high- which I guess is fine since you are non monogamous but it sounds like BD has a much higher sex drive than you- no?
I thought I had a relatively high sex drive but there are definitely women out there with higher sex drives than me so I’m not being critical, just curious.
Heck, I know one girl that got mad when her boyfriend wouldn’t fuck her when she was sick and throwing up. Actual comment “he could have just bent me over the sink”. My sex drive is high, but not at that level, lol. If I’m throwing up, leave me alone!
Caleb Jones
Posted at 09:44 pm, 5th September 2017Jack – Watch the tone. Last warning.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 10:52 pm, 5th September 2017My parents and anyone else are free to read this blog at anytime.
BD does not date, that’s against the rule. He fucks the same FB’s every week and that’s it. He does not go on dates with them or go anywhere with them. The only time he goes out to meet a girl at a coffee shop or restaurant is to meet for the very first time, that’s it. He doesn’t even buy them a meal. He doesn’t do that very often because his FB’s keep coming back. I admit, it’s not ideal, but that’s part of the open relationship aspect and I accept that part. I trust BD and don’t feel there is anything to worry about.
Yes, I like to watch sex, nothing wrong with that 🙂 BD isn’t complaining about that either 🙂
I don’t think BD will wake up one day and change his mind about being non-monogamous. This is our lifestyle and I have happily excepted it. If I hated this type of arrangement I wouldn’t choose to be with BD.
There have been a couple of discussions I’ve had with BD where I feel like he should have been a little jealous, as it’s pretty normal. I admit, it bothers me sometimes but, the way I think about it is that it’s better than him being crazy jealous and completely irrational.
Oh yes, BD’s FB’s definitely know about me. He has even recently told them we got engaged. They don’t care whether he has a girlfriend because most of them already have boyfriends. The FB’s see all of the pictures of BD and I throughout the house, they don’t care. BD has told me a lot about his current FB’s, there is one in particular that wants to meet me and become friends. Of course, I don’t plan to be friends with his FB’s though.
I’m not embarrassed about BD stating he fucks other people. He is very open and honest, I accepted that from the get-go. He talks about it quite a bit in his blogs and books, but he doesn’t walk around telling everyone he meets.
Punjabi Stud
Posted at 10:56 pm, 5th September 2017blackdragon since this post reminded me , is there a minimum age limit for your readers to even consider having oltr/mltr? I follow all your advice but im super young Im 20 so do you think that age ur readers should only have FB and they lack the experience in life to have a OLTR? I know you reccomened your younger readers if they are good looking to go for the older women since they will be very easy since ASD barrier will be lowered tremendously
Also i looked through a couple other of your posts but couldnt find the answer but is it better to have 2 MLTR rather than 1 OLTR + 1 MLTR?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:02 pm, 5th September 2017I had no idea I was an MLTR, I just thought we were seeing each other. BD never sat me down and said, “Ok, you’re an MLTR now.” If he had said that to me I would have been very confused. I would not recommend saying that to any woman.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:14 pm, 5th September 2017I probably would have continued to just “see him” for a long time. I was pretty content at that time. I might have initiated being serious eventually, but it would have been a long time. I was happy with how the relationship was going. It wasn’t until he said something to me that I realized I wanted to be serious with him. I’m so glad he said something though, now I’m happier than I have ever been.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:18 pm, 5th September 2017BD definitely has a softer side, but nothing that would be called beta male behavior. Beta male behavior drives him crazy. Trust me on this, he is far from beta.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:23 pm, 5th September 2017Okay, so I realize I wasn’t completely clear in my previous comment. BD and I have a ton of sex, there are some days we don’t have sex but, those days are few and far between.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:35 pm, 5th September 2017I would say my sex drive is medium. BD’s sex drive on the other hand is much higher than any person I have ever known. There are definitely no complaints in the bedroom 🙂 The differences in our sex drives has not been an issue. I’m sure if it was an issue, BD would have addressed that already or wouldn’t have chosen to be in a long term relationship with me.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:37 pm, 5th September 2017Correct. No man under age 30 should have a girlfriend (much less a wife) of any kind, OLTR or LTR. That’s just stupid. Your 20’s should be spent having fun, being free, getting laid, working hard, traveling, and taking advantage of the most free time of your life. You destroy all of that by having a girlfriend (monogamous or not), and certainly by having a wife. Save that stuff for when you’re over 30, preferably over 35.
Virtually no one will take that advice above though. Young guys tend to be needy, get oneitis fast, love having high-drama girlfriends, and often want kids way too soon, thus succumbing to marriage. Stupid.
The entire world would be a happier place if no one had a girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, or wife until age 30, but sadly that’s not how human beings are.
Yes, particularly if you’re relatively good looking and fit; you good-looking younger guys are the only ones who can reliably and repeatedly have sex with over-33 women quickly.
The article you want is here.
MLTR’s are not allowed if you have an OLTR. Just FB’s.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:42 pm, 5th September 2017It sounds like you are really enjoying this blog post Jack 😉
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:44 pm, 5th September 2017As you said, differences in sex drive levels are only relevant for monogamous couples. With nonmonogamous couples, it doesn’t matter. PF’s sex drive is about average, but honestly, she could actually have a very low sex drive and it still wouldn’t matter to me at all, as she is not my only source for sex.
When you’re monogamous, and one person has a much higher sex drive than the other, that’s a death warrant for the relationship/marriage; it’s only a matter of time before it fails. It’s one the stupidest things about monogamy, particularly long-term monogamy.
Man… I remember being in my monogamous marriage so long ago and always wanting more sex than the wife. It was literal torture.
Thank god I’ll never have that problem again.
Presscot
Posted at 12:39 am, 6th September 2017Is this post will gonna break the record from the total number of comments alone, BD?
*) people relationship’s business always more interesting for others to being dig up very.. very deeply
John
Posted at 02:14 am, 6th September 2017Thanks for the Q&A
1) In an article here (Confessions of a serial monogamist) KryptoKate said that men are unable to have sex without trying to eventually lock her down, that men get clingy sooner or later and it’s hard to maintain a strictly FB relationship. Would you agree based on your experience? Have you had or do you envision problems if your FBs try to lock you down but you want to keep it casual because you’re with BD?
2) Generally guys in 50s need to spend some money to get FBs, esp younger FBs. How would you feel about BD having sugar babies as FBs that he spends money on (monthly allowance/shopping etc)?
Sean
Posted at 06:43 am, 6th September 2017BD, Do you think a guy can have long term consistent happiness and never have a girlfriend? If it is so great not having one in your twenties, why ever get one? I seem to recall an article on this…
Michal
Posted at 06:44 am, 6th September 2017Hi Pink Firefly,
1. Thoes the fact that Big Dick is having sex with other women on a regular basis influence how much you desire him sexually?
2. Big Dick is a controversial public fogure. Does that influence his attractiveness in your eyes?
3. You used to be Big Dick’s FB and now you are hos fiancee. Purely from jelousy management perspective, would you prefer Big Dick to have one, regular, long term FB, ore more short term ones that come and go?
Thanks,
Michal
Btw. You should open sendblackdragonsgirlfrendsomedickpicks@…..com lol
CrabRangoon
Posted at 08:32 am, 6th September 2017“Correct. No man under age 30 should have a girlfriend (much less a wife) of any kind, OLTR or LTR. That’s just stupid. Your 20’s should be spent having fun, being free, getting laid, working hard, traveling, and taking advantage of the most free time of your life. You destroy all of that by having a girlfriend (monogamous or not), and certainly by having a wife. Save that stuff for when you’re over 30, preferably over 35.”
Very true and men should adhere to this. I’m always amazed by these super young guys getting married and having kids prior to 30. You’ll never have more freedom than in your younger years-responsibilities tend to add up over time. I can only assume it’s oneitis and they get strong armed into marrying these women instead of walking away. I don’t want kids but for men that do, I think 40 makes sense since things are slowing down a bit anyway and you’ve hopefully accomplished a lot professionally and personally.
Bulma78
Posted at 08:51 am, 6th September 2017It only happens with regular intercourse, never with fingers. I never feel tired afterwards in either situation. If anything, it gives me energy and I’m ready to run a marathon afterwards. I think that’s more of a guy thing?….getting tired/sleepy after sex?
I read before that it is mainly urine with some other kind of stuff mixed in. I’ve also read that it isn’t urine, so I dunno. Yes, it is very inconvenient and makes a huge mess, like at first before I really knew what was happening, but then you figure out ways to prevent that. I bet some women would think it might freak a guy out, but I think most guys would really like it.
CrabRangoon
Posted at 09:21 am, 6th September 2017@Sean
“Do you think a guy can have long term consistent happiness and never have a girlfriend? If it is so great not having one in your twenties, why ever get one?”
If you do it right, it can bring long term happiness (not forever unless you’re much older) and eventually most guys want some form of female companionship. Even if you have a good social circle, most folks end up traditionally married with kids at some point and you won’t see them as much after that. Trust me on this one-i’ve seen it with many of my friends. Sadly, we live in a world where people tend to spend all their time with the spouse/kids at least for the early years. It’s nice to have someone to bond with on a more regular basis as you get older, like past 35 or 40.
How much or little varies from guy to guy. You may not want to cohabitate and just live close by. Maybe only spend weekends together, or go full out and move in with her. Personally, I don’t want someone around all the time-I like just doing weekends, some trips together and the occasional weeknight.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 09:39 am, 6th September 2017I was wondering for a while about why is this. Then I realised, you are not completely non monogamous, only sexually. Romantically, under your model, you are still monogamous.
From what I’ve seen elsewhere it seems women are much more likely to accept such arrangement.
As for myself, I am still not sure about this. I am sure I dont want to be monogamous sexually, but still unclear about the other part. I think I am willing to tolerate the extra drama etc in exchange for being able to romance more than one girl. What I still need to determine is how easy it is for me to keep track of the girls. I think I can be in love with more than one girl at the same time.
In the end it seems to me all these arrangements including monogamy come down to “what are you prepared to sacrifice”.
POB
Posted at 09:40 am, 6th September 2017LOL, I laughed a lot on this.
It’s great to see the glaring difference between man’s and woman’s POV in a long term relationship – even a non-traditional one – that seems to be working.
Then
Hahaha, that’s 100% me. I guess if I go through that some day I’ll have to adapt to it too…oh man, you girls are so brainwashed by the fairy tales industry!!! Sadly this ain’t never gonna change.
Seriously, why not take that money and go travel with your man? Or book a whole week on a high-end spa for both of you?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 10:13 am, 6th September 2017Based on my experience, I would disagree. BD is not trying to lock any of his FB’s down to have a relationship with them. If he wanted to do that, I don’t think he would put in all of the effort to marry me. If I decide to have an FB, I don’t see the man trying to lock me down. Men are very good at being able to separate sex from a relationship.
I don’t have any problem with BD giving an FB an allowance (like a sugar baby arrangement). I almost think I would prefer that because then I would know that the FB just wants money and does not want anything more from him. If you’re asking about BD buying items for his FB’s, that would never, ever happen. BD does not have a romantic relationship with FB’s, its just sex.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 10:14 am, 6th September 2017I had just one monogamous girlfriend and only for some months it was quite enough. Definitely not something I would like to put myself through again. Funny thing was that it was me who wanted that. I guess I just didnt consider I could make something else work.
I used to always want that, though when I would be asked why, I didnt know what to answer. It was just something people do and I thought I should do it also because I thought that is how things are.
Over time I came to understand I dont specifically need or even want a “girlfriend” a such and then I found this blog and it has filled in the missing pieces, though by then I already had most of the same ideas, here I just saw it explained more clearly.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 10:28 am, 6th September 2017No, the fact that BD is fucking other women does not turn me on and make me desire him more.
I honestly don’t care whether or not BD is a public figure. I would love him the same if he was not a public figure. I don’t think people should have a relationship just because of that, as that will not make a long term relationship work. Obviously, people are drawn to public figures but, that’s not a good reason to just want to be with someone.
If I had a choice, I would prefer that BD have one regular long term FB rather than a bunch of short term ones that come and go. I think he would prefer that himself also. By having a steady FB, BD would not have to continue to be on a search to look for new ones constantly.
CDx
Posted at 10:37 am, 6th September 2017BD – this is very interesting to me. Is it because you only saw her once a week and followed all your other rules of dating a MLTR? Would PF’s response have been different if you broke your rules and acted like a boyfriend (spending multiple nights together, meeting parents, traveling)?
It just amazes me that there are women out there who are open to the idea of just “seeing” a man for a long time after having The Talk, and not demanding a more serious relationship, commitment, wanting boyfriend/girlfriend status after a couple of months, regardless of whether it’s open or not.
AlphaOmega
Posted at 10:47 am, 6th September 2017This is probably the main and almost only part of the BD system I dont like. But, I guess I am willing to put up with the extra drama in exchange for breaking such rules.
Sundance
Posted at 10:56 am, 6th September 2017Great idea for an article BD and thanks Firefly.
I’m actually transitioning a relationship I am in now to one that’s more tacitly open. Not in the swingers or “hotwife” sense, just something more than mono. My background; I have intentionally NOT had an exclusive relationship for over 8 years. During this time I’ve never had less than 2 women in my life and it’s hard for me to accept monogamy – it doesn’t work, especially for men with a high sex drive. At first I kept it secret based on the assumption that only Disney style relationships would be acceptable to women. However I soon found most women had no problem assuming that I am seeing women. HOWEVER, most of these were low investment relationships. Now that I’m in a relationship with someone I DO care about and DON’T want to see “run for the hills” it’s a bit more complicated.
Questions:
1. How would you/do you deal with BD texting, talking and spending time and energy pursuing a new (or existing) FB in your presence ? For me it’s a conundrum. I think it’s going to stir jealousy if “she” sees time and energy being expended in her presence, but if it’s done when she’s not looking then it may cause suspicion. My practice has been “don’t ask, don’t tell (unless they just have to know) and don’t rub it in their face. Your thoughts in light of your shared living arrangement?
2. In my understanding of women, it is much harder for them to separate sex from an emotional bond. While not impossible, the two almost always go together with women. In my experience when a woman has started seeing someone else while with me i can sense a shift to more flakiness and less all around “give a sh*t” between us. In the past I didn’t have a large investment in “her” but now I would. Therefore do you think that the woman having frequent/repeat 3rd party sex in a OLTR is more likely to erode/detract/destabilize the relationship than if primarily HE has sex with his FB’s?
Some context: I know Equalists will cite the “fair is fair” argument but realistically all things are not equal mentally and biologically. Men have 15x the testosterone than women and are programmed for variety. Men for ages have had the capacity to have woman on the side without negatively affecting their primary relationships with wives and family. This can’t as readily be said of women, barring the odd exception IMO. In my experience Women largely prefer serial monogamy which implies in theory and practice that her pursuing a new and regular lover is likely to have a negative impact on the relationship. Thoughts?
3. Do you find the “no dates” rule with FB’s particularly important? I ask because most of my past lovers realize more or less the limits and state of our relationship however appreciate a rare occasional nice gesture such as grabbing a bite together out or even a small gift. I believe it has more to do with her self respect and desire to not be treated like cheap meat. Seriously, what’s wrong with a small act of kindness or regard such as the occasional appetizer and drink out? Does it have to do primarily with the prospect of others potentially seeing BD out with another woman or do you have a real hard time with it? Elaborate please.
4. Do any of your friends with whom you’ve confided express “concern” over the arrangement? Our entire society is built on the Disney model. I expect nearly all of your friends would express a sense of foreboding if you told them the truth, no? Therefore, do you avoid revealing the nature of your relationship to BD to your friends?
venom
Posted at 10:58 am, 6th September 2017Hey PF!
As far as I understand you don’t have any FBs on your own for now. Why did you decide to stay monogamous to BD?
How do you feel about BD fucking other women and you being monogamous to him?
Do you like the fact that you are allowed to get something on the side if you wanted to, or isn’t it a bonus at all?
Under which circumstances would you consider getting FBs on the side? What would you look for in a man for such a relationship and would you apply BDs relationship model?
There are some rules regarding BDs behavior with FBs, would those rules also apply to you if you had any?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 12:24 pm, 6th September 2017BD does not generally text, talk or pursue FB’s when we are together. He does that when I’m at work or at a time when I’m not in is presence. I have gotten more comfortable with this and have told him a couple of times that he could text his consistent FB back while I was sitting next to him. Though, I would not like it if BD was trying to pursue a new FB while in my presence.
While sometimes woman do have a hard time separating sex from a relationship, I don’t think it necessarily means that they will automatically have trouble having sex on the side with an FB and not forming a relationship. I admit, women are more emotional, but if women are getting what they need in their marriage/long term relationship emotionally, I think they can easily separate sex from a relationship.
I absolutely find it important. BD should not be going to “grab a bite” with an FB. The whole idea of an FB is to fuck, not anything more. Yes, obviously he is going to be nice to FB’s but that doesn’t mean he needs to go out and spend time with them. His FB’s are all very well aware that the relationship is just about sex, nothing more.
Of course people I know have questioned it because it’s not the norm, but my family/friends want me to be happy even if that means being in an open relationship. I don’t go around telling people unless they ask. I will always be honest and truthful when my friends/family ask. I don’t live my life to make other’s happy. If my family and friends were not happy about it, I wouldn’t care. All that matters is whether it makes me happy.
B
Posted at 12:49 pm, 6th September 2017Thank you for sharing so much PF! Talking to a “normal” person is a great help to anyone who has an interest in this lifestyle (I do it myself on occasion).
The one small fear I have remaining is when a woman is with a man with a much larger cock than her main relationship (a cock she ENJOYS, I know “too big” exists). Does this detract from the pleasure/attraction she normally gets with her main man? And for BD, do you ever notice a difference after she has been with a much larger penis?
I know this is a very specific question, and one BD may have to field solo…
Sundance
Posted at 01:00 pm, 6th September 2017Thanks for the thoughtful replies PF!
Fair enough on the “no dates” rule. Hard on the gal’s self respect though. Not even a pizza once in a blue moon ?? – geeze cut the poor girl a little slack! lol Just joking around, thanks again
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:04 pm, 6th September 2017No. It will get a lot, but it won’t break the record set by this article.
Absolutely! But not all men, particularly those over age 40.
1. You will likely want to pair bond after you hit age 40.
2. At age 40+, pair bonding is less damaging to your life since you’ve probably already hit most of your big goals by then. In your 20’s, you likely haven’t hit any of your big goals yet, and having a GF will pull you away from those. Not good.
https://alphamale20.com/2015/06/11/the-only-9-options-for-men-as-they-age/
I’m not. Both younger man neediness and right-wing Societal Programming encourage this insanity. Stupid.
Correct.
Correct again. That’s the upside of OLTR. The downside is that OLTR takes much more work and time than a MLTR ever will.
Yes, particularly when the man and woman are extreme opposites on the masculine/feminine scale like PF and I are. To be fair though, most relationships won’t have these kinds of personality extremes.
Correct; I would.
I’m pretty close to that now though.
Yep.
Yep, very.
My relationship techniques work.
Then you need to get my book on the subject and get to work on the proper relationship techniques, so you can start living the good life like the rest of us Alpha 2.0’s.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:12 pm, 6th September 2017Why are some of you guys so obsessed with penis size? Dude, seriously, it’s not the big deal you guys are making it out to be.
In answer to your (odd) question, no, you can’t tell any physical difference with any woman who’s been with man with a bigger cock. I’ve had a few relationships where women would talk about other guys they were fucking who had bigger dicks than me. I didn’t care (and you shouldn’t either), and these women continued to see me for many years, because it doesn’t fucking matter as long as you’re doing everything else correctly in the relationship.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 01:40 pm, 6th September 2017I never said I was planning on staying monogamous.
I like that fact that BD and I are both able to have FB’s on the side.
There are no specific circumstances, if I have an FB, or when and if I want one. If I don’t already have an FB and I want one, I’ll get one. Plain and simple. Nothing needs to happen in order to have an FB. I could wake up one day and decide I want an FB.
I would look for an FB that does not want or intend to have a relationship beyond just physical. I would follow the rules BD and I have set for FB’s such as, no going on dates, not bringing FB’s to the house, ect.
There are no rules exactly on how BD is supposed to act with his FB’s. The only thing I would say is that he’s not supposed to act like a boyfriend to an FB. There is nothing to worry about there though, I know BD does not want to act like a beta boyfriend, especially to an FB. 🙂
Pink Firefly
Posted at 01:46 pm, 6th September 2017I wouldn’t let this keep you up at night, seriously! If a woman really likes you, it doesn’t matter what your cock size is. A woman might be excited to be with a man with a large cock for a moment, but in the long run women don’t care about size. As BD has said before, if you make a woman “cum” she’ll keep coming back for more no matter what size you are.
AC
Posted at 02:57 pm, 6th September 2017BD, I see the benefits of just having one FB. But, if you only had one long term FB and she decided to get monogamously married to some other guy, but you hadn’t been pursuing other women during that time… Wouldn’t you risk oneitis?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 04:03 pm, 6th September 2017No; a man isn’t ever going to get oneitis for a FB unless something is very wrong with him.
The real problem is that she’ll get married and then LSNFTE you, leaving you de facto monogamous, which is unacceptable. For that reason, having just one FB isn’t the safest long-term option, regardless of how attractive it may sound. 2 long-term FB’s is safer. That way, when one leaves (and she will), you’ve got plenty of time to replace her without being de facto monogamous.
Bruno
Posted at 04:50 pm, 6th September 2017re “If your cock isn’t at least monster-size, there is no hope for you”
BD, fortunately l think l understood sarcasm, thanks for the dictionary link! Anyways, you and your system are like a lighthouse in dark monogamistic moments. No more! I am getting started with your system in Pacific Northwest for reals. Love you man!
CDx
Posted at 05:33 pm, 6th September 2017BD and PF – What does emotional attraction mean to you?
AC
Posted at 05:48 pm, 6th September 2017“No; a man isn’t ever going to get oneitis for a FB unless something is very wrong with him.
The real problem is that she’ll get married and then LSNFTE you, leaving you de facto monogamous, which is unacceptable. For that reason, having just one FB isn’t the safest long-term option, regardless of how attractive it may sound. 2 long-term FB’s is safer. That way, when one leaves (and she will), you’ve got plenty of time to replace her without being de facto monogamous.”
Sorry BD. I need to reiterate what I said as I don’t think it was clear. I didn’t mean to imply oneitis for the long term FB. I meant if you had only one long term FB, and she left/got married, wouldn’t you then be de facto monagamous with PF and thus risk getting oneitis for PF? How would you deal with that? Would you still be chasing new women? etc.
Cheers!
Félix
Posted at 08:02 pm, 6th September 2017Hi PF,
What rules do you and BD have regarding sex with FBs (ie. No blowjob/cunnilingus unless you know the guy/girl really well and he/she showed you a recent STD-free test, no barebacking, etc) or do you just not mind the specific sexual activities you perform with your FBs? Although I logically understand and agree with nonmonogamy, I don’t think I would feel neither comfortable nor safe with my OLTR swallowing another guy’s cum (not because of jealousy, but because of the thought that I could get an STD). Thanks in advance!
Dawson Stone
Posted at 09:22 pm, 6th September 2017An interesting observation.
PF has a lower sex drive than BD. Meaning PF has no need to have a FB. She gets as much sex as she wants from BD. BD on the other hand (understandably) wants to have FBs so that he can satisfy his higher sex drive.
Makes perfect sense.
To PF, one question. You said:
How do you reconcile that with you saying:
And
You have a serious relationship (you are getting married so doesn’t get much more serious than that!) so why do you like the idea of being able to have a FB? Because BD does? Because you want one yourself? You seem a little confused here.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 10:19 pm, 6th September 2017I just find it funny how most mainstream women feel that they have to verbally marginalize the importance of sex in order to, in their minds, show respect to their boyfriends. Because men think in the opposite way, the boyfriend usually feels disrespected or hurt when she relegates sex to the sidelines of their relationship (even if just verbally). But she thinks she’s shown him respect by implying that she’s not just using him for his body, or whatever, which reveals feminine projection.
Similarly, when a man tries to show respect for his mainstream girlfriend, he’ll glorify the sex because he’s thinking he’s complimenting her, only to see her hurt and confused, leading her to ask him, “am I nothing more than a warm body to you?”
Man! Men and (mainstream) women are so different. I don’t mean any disrespect to you or BD when I say this, but I’m just glad that I don’t have this problem with my non-mainstream outlier girl. Then again, BD is happy with you, so different strokes.
Oh yeah, and I have one more question for you and one for BD:
PF: Have you given any more thought to putting your wedding on youtube?
BD: Are you going on a honeymoon? If so, will you be posting on this blog twice a week as usual or will your blogging be interrupted for a while till you come back?
Also BD, if someone were to (hypothetically, of course) “infiltrate” your wedding, would there be any hot bridesmaids that this hypothetical man would be able to nail? 🙂
Pink Firefly
Posted at 10:39 pm, 6th September 2017You are incorrect, I’m not confused at all. You’re taking my words out of context.
Meaning, BD and I are on an equal playing field. We both get to see FB’s if we want. Many men think it’s okay for them to see women on the side but don’t think it’s okay if their woman see’s men on the side.
I was referring to my past, I preferred to have a boyfriend rather than having casual FB’s on the side.
This is true, if I had a choice to be with BD and be monogamous I would but, that is not an option. It’s not realistic to think BD would want to change to monogamy. I’m happy to be with him and have an open-relationship, it’s just my first choice would have been monogamy.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 10:42 pm, 6th September 2017The only rule we have is to use condoms with FB’s.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 10:46 pm, 6th September 2017No, we will not be putting the wedding on You Tube. The wedding is a private event for just family and close friends.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:10 pm, 6th September 2017That’s a very big question and I couldn’t do it justice in a blog comment.
It wouldn’t be a risk for me, since I never get oneitis. I would be a risk for most men, since I see so many men with OLTR’s get lazy or complacent and end up de facto monogamous as I talked about here. So yes, that is indeed a threat and a challenge for most men in an OLTR… your FB’s will eventually float away because you’re lazy and/or not paying attention, and you won’t have anyone left except your OLTR, which is, congratulations, monogamy.
The problem I would have in that scenario relates more to my high sex drive than getting oneitis.
I will never let that happen. I’m too organized and motivated.
My tentative current plan, subject to change, is to have two long-term FB’s, women I’ve known for a while and trust, as much as one can trust a young FB that is. (I think I have these two people already in place but I’m not 100% sure yet.) If one leaves, I still have one left, and I would then go back to the roster to resurrect one more, bringing my total to two. If for some reason that would not work, yes, I’d have to go back on the dating sites or sugar daddy sites and quickly bring in a new one. I don’t anticipate that problem though; I have a very long-term roster from which to draw upon, since I’ve spent the last ten years of my life building it up.
Every OLTR operates under its own customized rules. If that really bothers you, you could specify that rule in your OLTR (“don’t swallow other men’s cum”). It’s your OLTR, do whatever you want! Don’t use that one little fear to settle for monogamy. Monogamy doesn’t work!
Of course.
What a stupid question. No. I travel all the time; when have I ever not posted? (I’ve been late a few times, but I’ve never not posted.)
My commitment to my audience, that I made long ago, is that I will make regular blog posts here until 2024 (currently that’s a twice per week schedule). Unlike many others in the PUA / manosphere, I’m a man of my word and I do what I promise.
The wedding ceremony will be taking place in undisclosed underground nuclear bomb-proof bunker. I have hired Boba Fett, Predator, and The Punisher to operate security, and they are under strict orders to instantly decapitate and skull-fuck anyone who fails their rental ID scan. So unless you want me to play basketball with your one-eyed noggin, I wouldn’t suggest it.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 11:20 pm, 6th September 2017Shit! You mean…….we’re not your close friends? HAHA! I’m just kidding. I understand.
Although, in all seriousness, I was seriously considering giving BD 1,000 dollars if he were to agree to hook that up. But that’s okay, I’m not hurt or anything. 🙂
In all honesty Pink Firefly, I’m really looking forward to seeing you and Caleb married and living together so that we can all watch how he manages to navigate an actual marriage as an alpha 2.0 this time, especially with the power of soft nexting being completely taken away from him. I think you will keep him on his toes, help sharpen his skills, and be good for him in many ways. I mean that.
I’m also particularly interested in you getting yourself a fuck buddy (or seven) somewhere down the road, if only to see how it will change you or how Caleb will react to it. At the very least, I’d like to see how your dynamic changes or evolves as your marriage goes on. Will you feel the same way about OLTRs in five years? Ten years? We’ll see. Men are stagnant while women are dynamic.
Despite my occasional snark – okay, okay, regular and never-ending snark – I think you have the potential to go either way here. Seeing how you and Caleb will influence each other as time goes on will definitely be fascinating to watch.
And I sincerely thank you for answering all these questions and giving us a taste of your contrasting point of view about all this.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 11:34 pm, 6th September 2017The reason I asked is because of the qualitative difference between a honeymoon and virtually everything else. The other times you’ve traveled, you’ve done it alone either for business or relaxation. That’s not the same as going on a honeymoon and (presumably) giving 100 percent attention to your new bride. But maybe that’s some residual Disney programming in me that I didn’t even know I had. I’m glad you’ll be posting.
I meant no disrespect, nor was I insinuating that you’re not a man of your word. Cut me some slack, it’s 1:30 in the morning.
HAHAHA!!!! So…..no hot bridesmaids then?
In all seriousness, I’d never go where I’m not invited. This was yet another attempt at humor at 1:30 am! It’s all good. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 11:49 pm, 6th September 2017Wow! And I thought my girlfriend’s sex drive was high. This girl has got her beat by a long shot!
AnonDude
Posted at 07:21 am, 7th September 2017@JOTB
WTF! Who are you and what have you done with our Jack. He is never this calm and polite. I call bullshit.
Dawson Stone
Posted at 07:47 am, 7th September 2017@PF
Thanks for clarifying.
I don’t think I took you out of context. In response to being asked if it was a bonus or not to be able to have a FB on the side you said you liked that you could. That seemed to imply it was a preference and not a fairness issue which was why I was confused. Now you clarified and said it really isn’t a preference but merely that it wouldn’t be fair if BD could do it but you couldn’t (and I totally agree with you).
I think this is really interesting. With many men (not all but probably most) we want both variety and frequency. Since men (in general) have higher sex drives, in a situation like the one you and BD are in both parties can have FBs but usually only the men will act on it because men want sex more often and many men want at least a little variety. A woman who doesn’t really need or want a FB (why would she if she gets all the sex she wants from her partner and variety isn’t important to her) might get a FB to try to keep things more balanced and remain a little more outcome independent or in an effort to make the guy jealous so that he agrees to become monogamous (clearly this wouldn’t work on BD but it would on many more beta and some alpha men).
Reading between the lines just a bit from other posts and comments BD has made, for BD the OLTR (OLTR marriage in your case) is about pair-bonding and sex with his OLTR while exciting and enjoyable isn’t his main driver. He can get sex elsewhere if at any point the frequency or intensity of sex with you were to diminish and for now his higher sex drive can be satisfied with other women without having to lie about it and without pressuring you for more sex than you might want.
The guy gets what he wants (with some significant compromises) in terms of frequency and variety as well as a satisfying pair-bond and the woman gets what she wants which is the social acceptance of a relationship, a satisfying pair-bond and as much sex (but never more than she wants) as she wants while also making the very significant compromise of accepting an open relationship even though that isn’t her preference.
Thank you for sharing about your relationship. This is going to be fascinating to watch how it plays out.
Johnny Ringo
Posted at 08:11 am, 7th September 2017Good stuff and kudos to both of you.
Couple of quick notes before my question:
Like you Firefly, my girlfriend is one of the only people we know in an open relationship. Women seem to be the most fascinated by the topic when her/I talk about it, but then generally slip right back into their normal SP.
Men, honestly, are usually the ones who are immediately against it in our personal experiences. The ones in a relationship, that is. They can’t stand the idea of their little “firefly” (excuse the pun) in bed with another hunk.
Like you, she prefers her man. However, she loves the option that she can do as she please, though SP flares up from time to time as it does with you. When I do flirt with other women, or if she thinks I’m sleeping with them, it makes her attraction and horniness 10X stronger.
My question is this.
Do you think you could ever bring a woman to the table for BD? Or, do you think that trying to convince another woman to do so would be too hard of a task?
She has really wanted to show me she can hook me up with a woman. I put time in, but I’m pleasure of sex, always super busy, and her and my mother are living with me until my mother can get back on her feet.
I notice and she notices she is always over verbalizing, (i know a little about that!) and I can’t personally see a situation where it would happen if I didn’t lead the whole thing from start to finish, as non-verbally as possible.
Personally, this was a nice wish at one time, but I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to continue to put in all the work myself, which I’m fine with. However, it’s a nice wish, and she has a sense of failure on her efforts on the past year, so what are your thoughts?
venom
Posted at 08:51 am, 7th September 2017Absolutely. Just had this female dread-game situation with my OLTR. She’s nonmonogamous cause thats the only way to be with me, she’d also prefer monogamy and doesn’t need FBs.
She “threatened” me to get an FB just “for her ego” and to keep things balanced (she hasn’t had sex with other dudes since she’s with me, purity game…). When she told me, she said I have right to veto and this would be my chance to become monogamous to her.
Funny thing, I held my non-mono Frame and besides asking a few questions I showed no jealousy at all. A few days later she trashed her idea of actually getting an FB just for balance.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 10:12 am, 7th September 2017As much as BD would probably like it if I found an FB for him, I would never do that. I had said in previous comments that I like watching, so if he wants to bring his own FB to the table, than I’m happy with that. I just don’t feel comfortable picking out a girl for him so he can fuck her every week while I’m at work. I would be willing to sit down with him and help him pick out a girl for the two us though 🙂
Dawson Stone
Posted at 10:21 am, 7th September 2017@PF
Maybe I missed it in your comments (if I did I apologize) but I thought you weren’t OK with BD bringing a FB to the house to have sex once you have moved in. So does that mean he can’t have sex with a FB in the house or he can only have sex with a FB in the house if you get to watch?
AlphaOmega
Posted at 11:03 am, 7th September 2017Plus more variety. I like variety.
Also if you have only two girls and want to have sex and they are both away/busy/on a period then what?
Having more is always better. Just because you have more FB doesnt mean that you have to see all them on regular basis.
A
Posted at 11:53 am, 7th September 2017BD and PF thanks for your answers so far. Is your marriage going to be a legal one or just a ceremony? If legal are you getting a prenup?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:58 am, 7th September 2017FB’s are not allowed in the house while I’m at work or away after I move in. If BD and I want to have his FB come over to the house while I’m home so I can watch, that’s okay. It’s not appropriate to have women come and go all week while I live there and am at work. If we are home together, and want to play together than that’s more appropriate 🙂
No more Mr. nice guy
Posted at 12:02 pm, 7th September 2017PF, both you and BD say it is very important that the woman comes every time you have sex.
For YOU, does it make a difference how he makes you come? With his penis, with his hands, with his mouth, with a toy?
BD…irrespective of what PF says..IN GENERAL…does it matter to women how orgasm is achieved, as long as they get there?
Joe
Posted at 12:29 pm, 7th September 2017PF – Thanks a ton for doing this.
One trend I’ve been surprised by in your answers is that you seem to be OK with BD seeing existing FBs but uneasy with him pursuing new ones. Can you elaborate on why you prefer him to see his existing FBs over him going out/online to find new ones ?
Thanks again! It helps us all out to better understand a woman’s perspective within a non-mono relationship. Even girls I’ve been non-mono with couldn’t elaborate as well as you have here 🙂
Pink Firefly
Posted at 02:35 pm, 7th September 2017It doesn’t matter how it’s done, as long as it happens. 🙂
The FB’s that he currently has now have all been around for a long time. He has been seeing them prior to meeting me, so he has a history with them and there as been no drama. I know so much about his current FB’s, which makes me comfortable. If BD has to find new FB’s, that would require him to go on a sugar daddy site, flirt and meet up with them at a coffee shop, ect. It’s not my first choice to have my fiancé going on a dating site, and meeting up with a new girl. I understand that BD may eventually have to find a new FB, however, I just prefer he see’s existing ones.
Johnny Ringo
Posted at 03:08 pm, 7th September 2017Not sure how to use the quote box, or I would use it for easier conversation.
Firefly: I used my context wrong when I said “hook up”, I meant where she is actually involved in a threesome or where she can watch. 🙂
Dingus
Posted at 04:38 pm, 7th September 2017Hey PF, it’s cool of you to do this, thanks!
Which one of the three fine gentlemen just mentioned would you rather have as an FB?
More seriously though, if you were to get an FB, would go for similar but slightly different guy to BD, or would you go further afield for pure variety?
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:57 pm, 7th September 2017You guys don’t know me as well as you think you do. I respond to the topics given. Different topics activate different parts of my personality. If any of you were to meet me in real life, I’d bet you my personality would be unrecognizable.
Dawson Stone
Posted at 05:00 pm, 7th September 2017@PF
I am curious about something. You said you really enjoy threesomes and to watch (sigh – if only more women were like you).
In the 15 months that you have been seriously dating BD how many threesomes have you had and how many times did you watch him have sex (where you didn’t participate obviously)?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:24 pm, 7th September 2017I’m a little confused by your question. If you’re asking if I would have a threesome with his FB, I would say no. If I’m going to have a threesome with BD, I prefer it to be someone we choose together. BD and have slightly different tastes in women. Also, I like to watch, but I don’t want someone to just come to watch BD and I, I prefer to do just the watching.
ETA
Posted at 05:34 pm, 7th September 2017PF: If having kids, was also what you wanted out of this relationship, is there anything you’d change, any new rules?
BD: I remember you mentioning you know of couples with kids, have you thought of doing the same Q&A post with one of them?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:36 pm, 7th September 2017Hmm… none of those options are my “type” of man. The Punisher is the best choice out of the three. 🙂
Honestly, I don’t think I could find a man similar to BD even if I tried. BD is very unique (in a good way), so I think that option would be off the table. I don’t think I would look for a specific type necessarily, just maybe someone I would find attractive. Since I wouldn’t be looking for someone to have a relationship with, looks would be all that I would be looking at.
Johnny Ringo
Posted at 05:44 pm, 7th September 2017You largely answered it. 🙂
Main question is, would YOU bring someone to the table for BD based on his tastes? Reason I asked in the first place, is because I think it’s harder for women to bring other women to the table through verbalization.
As an example, my girlfriend tried to surprise me once with someone, but let’s just say major ASD set in for the girl, which shouldn’t be surprising to anyone.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 07:00 pm, 7th September 2017BD and I aren’t having any kids, but if were going to have kids I don’t think anything would change. BD has separate rules about raising kids, so we would have had to have had a discussion about that. I can’t see anything changing as far as the non-monogamy part though. Maybe BD can elaborate on this.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 07:00 pm, 7th September 2017You forget you’re talking to a time management expert. My posts are always written at least a week in advance and are auto-posted based via an automated scheduling system. I could take an entire week off or more of writing (and I have) and my readers would never know.
I already know you do; that’s one of the things that explain your strong outcome dependence and heavy Alpha 1.0 tendencies.
I don’t care. I have an OLTR. Its not like I’ll freak out if I don’t see a FB for a week or two. I’m not that desperate for variety.
Partially true, partially untrue. A) There’s already been a little infighting with my FB’s because I was able to only see one of them during a certain week. B) FB’s (as well as MLTR’s) will float away if you don’t keep seeing them at least semi-regularly. This is harder to do if you’ve got a shitload of them (unless you fuck each one of them every day of the week, but I don’t have that kind of time or desire).
In terms of my cardinal rules for nonmono relationships, not really.
To the readers, every woman is going to be different about this. PF is happy if I see the same small set of FB’s over and over again, and that she knows who they are, but she gets extremely uncomfortable if a new woman is added to the mix, regardless of the reason. That’s just her though; the last woman I identified as “girlfriend” was the exact opposite; she got extremely uncomfortable when I saw the same women over and over again and vastly preferred that I fuck new women all the time (which, of course, is not something I wanted).
So every woman is going to be different about this. You just need to hope you get lucky, as I did with PF, that the FB system the woman prefers is the same system you prefer (or that she doesn’t care either way).
The comment toolbar for the quotes won’t appear on a phone or tablet; only on a real computer. I’m working on improving that.
I’m not sure how interesting that would be.
Commenter: Hey, so-and-so! What’s it like having BD as your dad?
My Kid: Fine.
Commenter: How do you feel about his sexual lifestyle?
My Kid: It’s a little weird but it’s fine.
And so on.
Having one of them write a guest post on the blog might be fun though.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 07:10 pm, 7th September 2017Correct. Kids wouldn’t change anything regarding the nonmonogamy. (The only OLTR couples who need to change things when kids come are those who allow frequent sex in the house with FB’s, and most OLTR couples don’t do this.)
Pink Firefly
Posted at 08:54 pm, 7th September 2017No, I wouldn’t bring anybody to the table, unless we both picked out someone.
We are not going to discuss our personal legal issues/topics.
LibreMax
Posted at 09:35 pm, 7th September 2017BD said he will leave the collapsing western world after a predetermined date no matter what, and will only be visiting the USA for holidays. This will be done under the 3 or 5 flags model.
PF, what are you thoughts on the matter? Are you interested in the 3 or 5 flags model for yourself? Did you have any thought about moving abroad before meeting BD? Did you already decide whether you will move to another country with BD or are you still undecided? What countries would you like moving to? What countries would be dealbreaker? Can you elaborate why?
Would you then prefer to live always (let’s say at least more than 5 or 10 years) in the same country, or instead adopt a more nomadic lifestyle where you and BD move to a different city/country every few months/years. What frequency of the moves would you fancy you think? I myself tried different frequencies ranging from 6 years to 1 months, and I can say my sweet spot is probably arround the 3 to 6 months currently, sometimes could be a year if I really like the city, but it has to be very special. Of course there are a few cities where I like to go back and live again, whereas some cities I don’t plan to go back live there. Over the years I feel like my home is in all those facourite cities of mine. Same question about ideal frequency of move to BD, that is for the place where you live assuming a future time when you already finished to get your new or double passport and are not anymore constrained for that matter.
Please share any other thought you may have on the topic about living abroad PF.
If you move to a new country with BD, what will happen about your work? Will you be working from home as BD does? If so, how would that change the dynamic with BD seeing FB while you are working or simiply staying at home?
Also, BD, will you already have FB in the new country? If not, how do you (question to both BD and PF, for both yourself and the other) feel about the fact that you would arrive there de facto monogamous until you add at least one FB?
LibreMax
Posted at 10:13 pm, 7th September 2017The dick size jokes sounded funny and utterly irrelevant… That is until I stumbled upond these stats (tryed to put a picture here with html code, didn’t work):
Women say dick size actually matters
In short: 75% of the women respondant to the survey said that both penis length and girth is important
81% said they prefer an average looking man with a large penis over a hot looking man with a small penis
Also this one is funny:
Average penis size per country
Caleb Jones
Posted at 10:39 pm, 7th September 2017As I’ve described at my other blog, my current rough plan, subject to change, is to spend 5.5 months in New Zealand (Oct-Feb), 3 months in Hong Kong (Mar-May), and 3-4 months in the US during the summer months (June-Sept) to visit faimly. We’re not leaving for many years (2025 or sooner) so this plan is very likely to change. Argentina may replace NZ, or maybe we spend a few years in Paraguay before NZ so I can get one of my extra passports. Etc.
Shifting countries 3 times per year will be the maximum. Even that might be too much for us; not sure. I don’t envision a nomadic lifestyle for PF and I, since I’ll be in my fuckin’ 50’s when I make my my final exit from the Collapsing USA and I really would like a steady and consistent home base. If I was in my 20’s I’m sure I’d feel differently.
That depends on what I end up doing. I can get laid relatively in just about any country (even if that means I have to go the sugar daddy route) so I’m really not concerned.
Um, I’m Blackdragon. I can get laid whenever I want, and very fast. That’s sort of the point. The entire reason I spent two years honing my get-laid skills so many years ago was specifically so I would not have the problem you describe. There certainly might be a few weeks of very temporary de facto monogamy here and there as I settle into our new international lifestyle, but as I already said above to AlphaOmega, if I can’t have sex with a FB for a few weeks I really don’t care and it doesn’t bother me. Sporadic FB’s are necessary, but not some kind of addiction.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 10:59 pm, 7th September 2017I had never thought about moving out of the county before. When BD told me when he planned to move out of the country and explained why, I was pretty surprised. I really had to do some thinking as to whether that was something I even wanted to do. Basically, BD laid it all out that he was moving out of the country with or without me. Obviously if I planned to marry him and wanted to be with him I would have to go. I agreed, but it was with some hesitation. I don’t know anyone who lives abroad and I would be leaving my entire family and all of my friends. It’s a little scary. When BD explained that we would be coming to the States to see family for the entire summer, I felt better about saying “yes.”
I’m really hoping we will move to New Zealand, as it looks so beautiful! I would also love to live in Australia, but after looking into it, Australia is not all that cheap to live. BD suggested Buenos Aires and Chile, but I would prefer not to live there. I’m a little picky on where we live, I would rather live in a country where everyone speaks English. I would feel more comfortable in an English speaking country. Africa would be a deal breaker! I know BD doesn’t want to live there though, luckily. 🙂
Personally, I would prefer to stay in one country, but we would need to live in two places because we can’t stay longer than 6 months at a time. We are thinking for example, living in New Zealand for 6 months and going to Hong Kong for a couple months then going to the States for the summer to see family. BD loves Hong Kong so he’s pretty excited about getting a second place there. I’m excited to visit Hong Kong, but not too thrilled to get a place there, however, it’s only for a couple of months so I’m sure I’ll like it. BD has also suggested that if I didn’t want to go to Hong Kong, that I could stay in New Zealand while he’s in Hong Kong. I might do that, but I would most likely go with him to Hong Kong.
I currently own a travel company, so I would be working from home. The dynamics will still be the same with BD seeing FB’s. The rule is that no FB’s are allowed to come to the house, so he’ll have to find another place. The rule applies to any FB’s I might have also.
I don’t think if will take BD very long to find an FB wherever we move. 🙂 Who knows, he may look for an FB prior to moving to whatever country we move to.
I see you found a survey, however, I still don’t take back what I had previously said. Women may like a big dick at first but a big dick won’t make a relationship last.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:13 pm, 7th September 2017None just yet. 😉
LibreMax
Posted at 11:40 pm, 7th September 2017Thank you both for the thorough answers about living abroad.
PF, I think my question about the BD going out to have sex with a FB while you would be working from home wasn’t clear. What I meant is, now (or when you move in together) you go out of the home to work and BD works from home. During this time BD sometimes has a break and go out of home to have sex with a FB. This action of him leaving the house to have sex with a FB is not occuring in front of your eyes.
But when you will be living abroad AND working both in the same home, my understanding is that sometimes you will both be at home, and then BD will be having a break to go out have sex with a FB while you are here at home with him. So you will actually see him leave uou at home in order to have sex with the FB and come back, meanwhile you were at home alone, working or else. So my question was more about how this change would impact you emotionally?
Like I said, I am currently trying some kind of OLTR. And currently she is in a long holidays break. So we are both almost constantly together, in a new city. So it’s much more challenging emotionally for her to have me leacing her at home alone in order for me to have sex with a FB. It’s also more of a don’t ask don tell agreement.
There was a few times where I was able to pull this off by combining having sex with the FB while running errands when my OLTR didn’t feel like running the errands with me and got busy doing something else at home. But in this moment it was not explicited that I was going to have sex with a FB. I actually arranged that with the FB at the last minute.
If she had to go to work or class outside of the home, the emotional dynamic would be orders of magnitude easier for me to go out have sex with a FB.
SAO
Posted at 01:57 am, 8th September 2017Hi PF,do you think you would ever reveal a picture of yourself on this website in the future? (Since BD himself has no problem revealing his identity here)
I’ve always been curious on what you look like. Though of course its always within your right to remain anonymous.
Dawson Stone
Posted at 06:29 am, 8th September 2017@PF
Again, thank you for being so forthcoming. But you only answered half my question. In the 15 months since you have been seriously dating BD how many times have you watched him have sex with another woman?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:55 am, 8th September 2017I’m sure eventually a picture will be posted, but for now I’m going to stay anonymous. 🙂
Biz4prez
Posted at 03:24 pm, 8th September 2017Hey BD
I know you said if you have an oltr you can’t have another women as an mltr. Why is that? I know you say you can love multiple women but one is normally above the rest. Couldn’t you carry this concept over whenever you upgrade a girl to an oltr.
Is it possible to have a model following traditional middle Eastern marriages where the husband has multiple wives (not saying you’d treat them that way or theyd both be living with you but just a similar concept).
Kind of similar to the basketball player lou Williams, he has 2 girlfriends that he openly loves and even has a kid with one(oltr) but also has another woman who he dates and She even is around him when his oltr is there.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 04:06 pm, 8th September 2017Because if you did, that woman would not be an OLTR. She would simply be your favorite MLTR.
No, I said I can’t love multiple women, and that I can only love one, as I described here. Some men can actually love more than one woman, but that’s extremely rare.
No, unless you’re talking about polygamy, which doesn’t work in the Western world.
In the Middle East or Africa, sure. In the Western world, no. No Western woman will put up with that in the long-term (unless the situation is unusual, like she’s really fucking ugly, or you’re paying her, etc).
You cannot compare the relationships of rich, powerful, famous, celebrities to normal people like you and me. They live in a different world than you and I do.
FYI I have an article coming up addressing the issue of multiple girlfriends/wives, or I-can-fuck-people-but-my-women-can’t stuff.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 04:28 pm, 8th September 2017Well, I hope that scenario doesn’t happen, although I’m sure it could. I never want to be that girl/wife who sits at home waiting for her husband to finish fucking some other girl. That would be very hard. I would rather he do it when I’m not home or when he’s running errands, ect. Just because we both will be working from home, doesn’t mean that I’ll be home everyday all day long. I’m sure there will be many times BD can leave to go fuck his FB while I’m out and about. I plan to do many things besides be at home working, such as doing some volunteering, I’ll be out and about with my girlfriends, going to the gym, ect. I don’t think the above scenario is likely to happen often. Who knows, maybe if it does happen, I can go fuck my FB too. 😉
Dawson Stone
Posted at 04:58 pm, 8th September 2017@PF
I am going to make a few assumptions here so if I have anything wrong please correct me. You have been seeing BD for about 2 ½ years (with about a year break after the first year of being only a FB) the last 15 months of which you have been in an OLTR with him. During that time you have never watched BD have sex with another woman (you didn’t respond to this part of my question so correct me if I am wrong about this fact) and you have never had a threesome with BD.
While you have had three serious relationships before BD, none of them ended up in marriage so I will assume (and correct me if I am wrong) that those relationships were significantly less interesting to you or you would be with them and not BD; especially since with BD you have had to make a very significant compromise you aren’t thrilled with (being in an open relationship).
And yet you say:
But you have never watched BD have sex with another woman in front of you so how would you know how you would feel about it let alone assume you would enjoy it?
And:
And:
You talk as if these things have happened and you enjoyed the experiences when that isn’t the case because they haven’t happened with BD. In my experience, a tiny percentage of women (really tiny) that say they are into threesomes and watching their partner have sex with another woman actually are. ESPECIALLY when it is with a guy they are really in love with and not just a guy they are seeing that is more casual.
When you say things like:
Your tone seems so obviously jealous (I am not judging here – nearly all women would feel the same way as you do). But that is not at all consistent with someone that is actually ok with their partner being with another woman under ANY circumstances let alone circumstances where they are present for the activities.
Are you really excited about doing a threesome or watching BD have sex with another woman in front of you? Given how obviously into BD you are and the rules you have insisted on, this honestly seems completely incongruous. And even if you were open to trying to watch him have sex with someone else or having a threesome with him (which I believe you are as you seem like an honest person), how can you be sure that when it actually happened you would enjoy it given you have never been as in love with your partner like you are with BD and given your more traditional feelings about love, relationships and marriage?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 05:23 pm, 8th September 2017Go ahead, you can assume all you want, but that doesn’t make it true. There are some things I do like to keep private, so go ahead and keep on assuming. Just because you think you are correct doesn’t make it so.
Again, think and assume what you want. Everyone get’s a little jealous now and again (except maybe BD). I have been very honest with everyone on this blog and admitted that I can get jealous sometimes, and I’m very normal for doing so.
You are incorrect. I never, ever said I haven’t watched sex before. This seems to be another one of your assumptions. I have to laugh though, because you really seem to think you are correct in what you know about my personal life. Whether I have watched sex, had threesomes, or have plans to do those things are really none of anyone’s business I unless I decide to share that with BD’s readers. BD is very open to his readers on just about everything, however, I am not BD and choose to keep some things private.
A little sense of humor never hurts either.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 05:26 pm, 8th September 2017Dawson – Be nice. You were being pushy earlier and now you’re acting like it’s an interrogation. As I said in the article, she’s free to not answer any question she likes. A) If she doesn’t answer one of your questions, tough shit. B) If you don’t get an answer, don’t assume an answer that matches your own internal narrative. (I know you dislike the concept of OLTR’s.) C) If you don’t get an answer, stop bugging her about it and move on.
Last warning.
Dawson Stone
Posted at 06:00 pm, 8th September 2017I have been nothing but respectful.
If you chose to see it another way so be it.
KryptoKate
Posted at 07:20 pm, 8th September 20171. Were you single when you started having sex with BD?
2. If you WERE single when you started seeing BD, why were you single? From the way you have been described, you are very attractive, EXTREMELY easy-going, don’t have children, and prefer being in a relationship/want to be married. I have literally never met a woman who meets all of those four categories who is single. They either go directly from one guy to the next or they don’t want to be in a relationship (or they don’t really meet the other categories). So I’m guessing you had a boyfriend/husband when you started seeing BD, though if not it would be interesting to know why.
3. If you were NOT single when you started seeing him, what made you cheat on the previous guy? Boredom or something the other guy lacked or something affirmatively superior about BD? And what happened to cause your previous relationship to break up? Did you break up with the guy so you could become BD’s girlfriend? Or did the other guy break up with you? Or did you do something to make the other guy think it was his idea to break up?
4. Your responses provide a whole bunch of things that you DON’T think about or know about or research or plan for and you indicate many things that don’t interest you, but you tell virtually nothing about what DOES interest you. What do you spend time thinking about? What are your interests?
5. How often do you cry (if at all)? If you do cry, how often is it in front of BD? Whether in front of him or not, what percentage of the times that you cry is it over something related to BD that is making you sad?
6. If after you move in with BD things are not going according to his plan and he becomes unhappy, what happens? You move back out?
7. What happens with your work when BD moves to another country?
Fred Fred
Posted at 08:38 pm, 8th September 2017This is a question for BD. PF has commented several times that you don’t get jealous at all under any circumstances. I’m not sure if you have ever said this directly? I understand that you have a low level of jealousy. However, if you actually don’t get jealous at all, why do you have any restrictions on PF? Why not let her become romantically involved with another man if she wants to? Or why not let her have sex with another guy at your house while you are at home?
If you do get jealous, what are the circumstances under which you think you would get jealous?
LibreMax
Posted at 09:32 pm, 8th September 2017Thank you Pink Firefly, that makes sense. I wonder if there is something systemic to make sure any OLTR would always have some whereabouts on her own, even right after moving in to a new city during long holidays. Perhaps BD has some idea which doesn’t involve screening for highly independent and busy women?
That’s some tough and interesting questions here KryptoKate 🙂
As for 7) PF gave an element of answer earlier: “I currently own a travel company, so I would be working from home.”
Lovergirl
Posted at 09:45 pm, 8th September 2017PF- it seems like you are making some pretty big compromises. You aren’t really big on non monogamy and were unsure about moving to another country (by the way you should probably go to Africa before making assumptions- they do speak English in some places and it’s not some horrible continent lol). What kind of compromises is BD making for you?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 11:41 pm, 8th September 2017Oh really? Which African countries have you spent time in? I’m more than willing to have an open mind about Africa, especially from someone like you who has clearly spent significant time there. 🙂
Oh wow, BD complains about all of the compromises he is making such as;
1. Having to live with a woman, something BD has been scared of for 10 years.
2. Never being able to have an MLTR for the rest of his life. BD loves MLTR’s.
3. Numerous sexual restrictions on how he spends time with his FB’s.
4. BD is very worried about his money, finances and budget. BD thinks he’s risking all of this and he’s freaking out. BD is very anal about his finances.
5. This relationship takes a lot of time and work. BD is taking time away from his work and his mission, which I can tell bothers him a little.
6. Having a wedding. BD complains about this all of the time and calls it “gay Disney shit”.
These are just the ones off the top of my head. Or you could just believe that this is a completely one sided relationship in BD’s favor.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:59 pm, 8th September 2017Um, you realize her answers are like that because those are the answers to the specific questions she’s been asked so far. You are the first person in this entire thread to ask her about her interests or likes are.
As I’ve described before, there are two kinds of crying. The first type is when a woman is sad about something that has nothing to do with you. The second kind is when a woman cries “at you,” when she’s sad or upset about something you did. The first type isn’t drama; a woman is welcome do that all she likes. The second kind is drama, and will be answered with a soft next.
I’ll let you decide if PF is the kind of woman who cries “at” me on a regular basis, and if I would even be in an OLTR with a woman who did that often.
For the third time, if I (or PF) don’t get to fuck a FB for a few weeks because of something like a recent move or a holiday, that’s okay.
As I’ve said before, de facto monogamy starts at around the six week mark (if you haven’t had sex with anyone except your OLTR for over six weeks). Less than six weeks is perfectly fine.
You guys are acting like if a man doesn’t fuck one of his FB’s every week the world will come to an end. The point is to never be monogamous, not to bang women on the side every day. It’s an issue of degree.
I never screen, but I have said before that I tend to be more attracted to women who are very, very busy. Hot workaholic women really turn me on… and are great for the kind of lifestyle I want. So yeah, most of my serious relationships have been with women who had very busy, full lives (whether because of work or other reasons).
Pink Firefly
Posted at 12:22 am, 9th September 2017I spend time thinking about my travel business, thinking about planning the wedding, I think about family and friends and what I plan to buy at the grocery store. I’ve been thinking about paint colors, and what color I should paint the interior of BD’s house and about how I’m going to redecorate his house so it no longer looks like a bachelor pad. I’ve been thinking about how my life will change once I move into BD’s house and how exciting it will be to travel and see the world with him.
I enjoy working on my business, I love going to movies, reading true crime books, checking out new restaurants in the area and spending time with BD. I love going out for breakfast every Sunday morning with BD and ordering my usual hot apple cider.
The rest of your questions are way too personal and I won’t answer them in a public forum like this.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 12:35 am, 9th September 2017Political correctness detected. Initiating red pill countermeasures now:
Oh Lovergirl! LOL! Look, I know you love the blacks (I’m “down with the homies” myself, know what I’m sayin?) but let’s not die on this PC hill, mmmkay?
Yes, Africa is indeed the absolute worst continent on the planet today (not counting Antarctica). This is not an opinion. It is objective fact. By literally any conceivable measurement of good or bad that you can possibly make, Africa is the worst – Science, technology, medicine, industrialization, freedom, democracy, Enlightenment values, human rights, sexual liberation, the economy, indoor plumbing, toilets, zoos (to keep the people safe and the animals caged), basic life support that we all take for granted here, insects, water, food, AIDS, Ebola, and every single other possible yardstick that you can come up with to judge how good or bad a continent or country is: Africa is currently THE WORST!
So please, let’s not slam people for making politically incorrect assumptions (otherwise known as facts) just because some BLM terrorist idiot might try to use the R word. Nothing happens when you tell the PC police to go fuck themselves!
So let’s keep it real, yo! Peace!
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 12:49 am, 9th September 2017Kryptokate – You are completely and utterly awesome!
That is all.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 01:07 am, 9th September 2017Now this is interesting:
Huh? For the rest of his life? How do you figure? BD will be the first to tell you that all relationships are temporary. That’s not a slap against you; just a fact of life.
He is? I’d perhaps offer him some free legal advice, but he won’t even admit whether or not the marriage will be legal or just purely ceremonial.
Fist bump, BD!
Ouch! When my girlfriend moved in with me, she didn’t want to make any major changes. She just wanted to personalize our bedroom the most by bringing in a lot of personal items (such as her dolls that she had since she was a kid). Other than that, the house is littered with her clothing on the floor and is arguably even messier than it was before she moved in. My house now looks like a quasi-female “bachelor pad” which is very funny to me.
Dawson Stone
Posted at 02:20 am, 9th September 2017South Africa.
Official language = English.
Cape Town is gorgeous.
OOGI
Posted at 04:46 am, 9th September 2017well this is actually a question for both of you:
theoretically [and maybe practically], if there isn’t any FB’s anywhere near you just like in:
1. PF and BD move from the USA to another country.
2. All BD’s FB’s died [or just gone without the LSFNTE thing]
can BD allowed to send a Blitz and start to acquire new FB through his dating techniques and bring a new one?
if so, how will he do that? date two in your house?
if not, how will you, BD, do that? and what will you do?
LibreMax
Posted at 09:08 am, 9th September 20176 weeks…
Last time I fucked a FB was more than 4 weeks ago, I am indeed starting to get a bit nervous with my OLTR situation here 😉
LibreMax
Posted at 09:26 am, 9th September 2017Wow Jack, can you share more about your personal experience with your girlfriend? Is it an OLTR? BD said you don’t like OLTR. Can you elaborate why? Any warning or advice you may want to share? I am intereseted. Anything based on your experience? I have myself mixed feelings with what I am currently doing, the drawbacks of living with a woman and no MLTRs are indeed gigantic. And I am not even talkng about the mad horror of home redecoration and the wedding insanities. PF, Blackdragon must really be in love with you to an incredibly deep level to accept all these compromises for being with you. You must be unforgettably special in his heart.
LibreMax
Posted at 09:30 am, 9th September 2017Krypto Kate, I am myself interested in exploring subsarahan Africa. Where have you been and where do you recommend?
I went in already in Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt. Not my cup of tea at all.
I am also very interested in Madagascar, have you beem there?
Lamudi Tripp
Posted at 10:02 am, 9th September 2017It breaks at 200+ comments now.
Great choice of topic, BD!
Hi, PF..
Do you love to read? If so, what’s your favorite book?
Besides, what do you do for fun? also what’s your long term hobby?
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 12:18 pm, 9th September 2017Ask me something specific.
Yes.
When did BD say that? I think you’re confused. She’s been my OLTR for over 3 years.
Never compromise on the toilet seat argument. When you leave the seat up, it stays up and she needs to accept that. If she doesn’t, she’s not qualified to live with you. That’s Rule #1 of living together. Beyond that, I’ll need more specific questions.
I’m not sure what you want me to say, but my girl is a hardcore Wiccan and has a very high sex drive, so her Disney levels are at their minimum. We’re supposed to have a baby, but because of her Wiccan beliefs, she postponed the impregnation (yet again) to September 20th after the planet Mercury gets out of the “post retrograde shadow period” (don’t ask), so our first child will be either a Gemini or a Cancer and she’s adjusting her child raising plans in accordance with the predicted personality, lol.
Because my girl is in to poly even more than me (as if that’s possible), it hasn’t been so bad with me. I have two FBs on the side (one married, one with a boyfriend). At this point, she has one male FB who recently got married (tertiary) and one female FWB who is single (secondary). That’s as far as one-on-one sex goes. But not counting those, we still have semi-regular threesomes and occasional group sex with her friends from her Wiccan circle. So no, I don’t have time to miss MTLRs, lol.
Yeah, my girl wouldn’t have the first clue how to redecorate anything. She also has practically no idea how to even turn an oven on, which I like, since it means I still get to cook for myself and no woman will make me dependent on her for anything gender neutral for the purposes of manipulation or future blackmail.
HA! That will never happen, as I made clear to her from the beginning. She wanted an extra-legal (purely expressive) wedding ceremony, but I told her no.
GoodSense3
Posted at 01:15 pm, 9th September 2017Can you rank which type of guy based on nationality would you try to have as your main FB? White, Asian, Latino, Black? Are any of these nationalities off limits?
Also What will the specific age range have to be. Could you allow a 18yr old guy or 50 yr old guy be a FB?
Caleb Jones
Posted at 03:03 pm, 9th September 2017Yep. It’s now the second most commented thread in the history of this entire blog. PF has done well.
Um, I’m Blackdragon. I’ve got more than enough attorneys assisting me in all this, thanks.
That’s the Alpha Male 1.0 answer.
The Alpha Male 2.0 answer is to have completely separate bathrooms that are never shared. Now the toilet seat isn’t relevant.
Annnnnd you’ve just completely destroyed your entire ability to criticize my OLTR on her Disney. I’ll be linking to that comment you just made every time you get upset that PF has any irrational beliefs, Disney or otherwise. Your OLTR is far more irrational than mine; PF would never do something that insane.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 04:53 pm, 9th September 2017I’m only attracted to while men, but I know many women including my friends who are attracted to lots of different nationalities.
My age range would be 35-49 years old. (I’m 37 years old and generally like older men).
GoodSense3
Posted at 04:58 pm, 9th September 2017Last questions for this article PFF
Why do you think the U.S has the highest percentage of obesity? Also have you ever listened to Tom Leykis? He and many others claim U.S women are the worst as far as personality/attitude and looks/sexuality overall on average compared to most other countries. What do you think about that?
Daniel
Posted at 05:27 pm, 9th September 20171. You mention somewhere above that there were many discussions before you accepted that this would be an open model relationship. Could you elaborate on the nature of these discussions? Did BD. Explain his reasons and convince you that open is better /more realistic than mono?
2. BD says the main reason being open is so important is because it allows nexting and minimized drama. But you have never been dramatic and required a next except for a few hours one time it seems. Do you feel that the fact he is seeing other women truly is responsible for your good behavior and the overall success of the relationship? Or do you feel that you would be just as. Good a partner in a mono relationship, and BD is just having his cake and eating it too?
3. All things being equal (I know it’s a stretch but just imagine) if you had an exact duplicate of BD i except he was monogamous, which one would you marry?
Lovergirl
Posted at 10:13 pm, 9th September 2017I’ve never been to Africa but one of my best girlfriends is South African so I’ve been thoroughly schooled on the misconceptions that Americans have. No, Jack, she isn’t black, and I cringe daily at the clueless comments she has to endure from people who think they know something about her country but really don’t.
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 09:28 am, 10th September 2017Yeah, but you have to pay them.
Regardless of whether or not the bathrooms are shared, many women still demand that you put your toilet seat down, even if they have their own separate bathroom. That’s when you put your foot down. If the woman wants to go into your bathroom and physically put the seat down herself, that’s fine, but she better not say a word about it or tell you what to do. My point was that if you compromise on that, you’re setting a bad precedent.
In any case, my house has only one bathroom, but my girl does not complain about the seat being up. She doesn’t really care, but she also knows that I wouldn’t heed her complaints in any way if she did.
One threatens the seduction community and the other does not. My girlfriend’s “Disney” is practically at zero! I think your definition of “Disney” is broader than mine.
What I’m criticizing is traditionalism, prudery, monogamy, marriage, mainstream values, the concept of lifetime relationships, slut shaming, stud shaming, and a bunch of other anti-seduction blue pill crap. That’s what I call “Disney.” That’s what we criticize here. But you seem to refer to “Disney” as “any irrational belief.” Okay sure, then in that case, my girl has Disney up the ass. But I’ve always considered such conflation to be a non-sequitur because my girlfriend has virtually zero beliefs that could be considered anti-seduction. Stupid? Sure. But not “Disney.”
I’ve criticized PF’s Disney beliefs because they run contrary to the red pill community. My girlfriend’s bullshit may indeed be irrational and you can make fun of it all you like (I certainly do), but her irrationality doesn’t threaten the seduction community, unlike Disney beliefs. That’s the key difference for me.
So you’re sweeping every false belief – Disney or not, prudish or not, sex-negative or not – into the same broad basket labeled “irrational.” I’m more discerning than that as far as the seduction community is concerned, but okay.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 11:35 am, 10th September 2017Obviously I would disagree with that, but that doesn’t change anything I said.
Insane. I would never share a bathroom long-term with a woman, regardless of what she agrees to at the beginning. You’re begging for long-term inconvenience and conflict.
Increase your income and move so you have two bathrooms before living with a woman. Jesus.
The individual opinions of my girlfriend regarding Disney threaten no one. This goes double because she’s with me.
Even if it did, I don’t give a fuck about the seduction community and never have.
Incorrect. I never said she had Disney. I said she has irrational beliefs, bordering on insanity. Only wanting you to impregnate her on specific dates because of the horoscope? Are you fucking kidding me? If PF had every seriously stated such a belief at any point, she would never have become my OLTR. (MLTR maybe, FB definitely, but OLTR? Fuck no.)
There are degrees of irrationality. PF’s irrationality is that she wants a wedding and other Societal Programming tropes. Your OLTR’s irrationality is that she literally believes in magic, to the point of it actually determining her sexual behaviors with you and how she bares children. If it’s a contest between who’s OLTR is less irrational, I win. This is why I’ve kept a link to your above comment to refer to next time you accuse PF of being irrational (Disney or otherwise). Then I’ll start calling you Mr. Glass House.
LibreMax
Posted at 01:11 pm, 10th September 2017I like the idea of a polyamorous girlfriend Jack, and the Wicca thing sounds like fun. I always wondered, do they also have sexual rituals?
One question for you: since she is into polyamory, have you tried to have also one or some MLTRs? My understanding is that the “no MLTR, only FBs with an OLTR” rule stated by BD is a simplification to avoid drama with women who are not advanced polyamorous. But since your OLTR is advanced polyamorous perhaps she can deal with more emotionally complex situations?
Also, do you feel compersion? Does she?
Pink Firefly
Posted at 02:17 pm, 10th September 2017BD told me that Mexico now has the highest percentage of obesity. I have no idea why the U.S. has a high percentage. BD is more into this kind of topic.
No, I don’t know who this person is.
I really don’t have an opinion on this topic.
Maybe BD will elaborate more on this topic.
Good behavior? Am I a child? Lol…. Whether or not BD has FB’s does not change my behavior. I am who I am and I behave the way I behave regardless if BD fucks other women.
This is a “gotcha” question. This scenario will never happen so I will not pretend or imagine that it would.
I love to read true crime books. My favorite author was Ann Rule, however, she passed away recently. My favorite book by Ann Rule is “Too Late to Say Goodbye.”
I’ve already answered this in an above comment.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 02:25 pm, 10th September 2017Oh, I see, so you haven’t ever been to Africa and haven’t seen it first hand. You probably shouldn’t be giving advice on Africa then if you’ve never personally been there.
Lovergirl
Posted at 03:39 pm, 10th September 2017Im not sure why the sensitivity regarding my comment about Africa. It’s true. It doesn’t require any special experience to know that English is spoken in some areas and it’s not some horrible place everywhere you go. Heck, my friend’s sister, who still lives in Johannesburg, was here not that long ago and we tease her because some of her biggest complaints are things like the nanny not folding the laundry properly haha. I think I’d survive 😉
LibreMax
Posted at 08:33 pm, 10th September 2017I also had the a priori that Johannesburg was like the most dangerous city in the world. According to a quick google search it doesn’t really live up to this reputation. For instance:
https://www.goodthingsguy.com/opinion/johannesburg-living-worlds-dangerous-city/
For me Manila is borderline, I can live there but I don’t feel super safe.
Some people believe that Thailand and Bangkok are unsafe. For me it feels like one fo the safest place I have been with Singapore. I haven’t been in Japan though. But surely felt more safe than north America or Europe, especially safer than France, especially more than Nice city and Paris.
It’s kinda confusing to try to figure out what a place truely is before I’ve been there. I am trying to gauge criminality in various coastal subsaharan and latin american countries to see if it’s worth trying to live there. From what I read, it would sometimes seems as if some south american countries are more unsafe that africa, especially in term of gun violence and robberies.
LibreMax
Posted at 11:23 pm, 10th September 2017There is also a difference between how safe a place “feels”, and how safe a place is “in reality”.
Hey PF, I have question about skin and body smell, including breath, genitals and armpits. I have experienced dating some amazing women, very pretty, at least in my eyes, super sweet, low drama, great sex… but something bout their smell was just not attractive, even sometimes quite repelling actually. What a bummer! I think personally I couldn’t have an OLTR with someone like that. And I don’t mean that they objectively stinked, no. I think it was something purely subjective. And I am talking about women whose hygiene is very neat. I understand that hygiene plays a role, but that’s not the topic here. I am talking about the personal smell all other things equal.
I came to think that smell is one of the most underrated and overlooked topic in term of attraction and seduction. My current OLTR has a smell which drives me crazy, even after a long swety night (of course I am not talking about morning breath, which is never delightful but even that I find it much less bad on her). And she feels the same about me. She even smells my armpits. I mean we kinda get high on each others smell. Which is something I would feel grossed out about normally. At best with other women I find their smell pleasant, but I don’t get ‘high’ on it. And the vast majority of women I just tolerate their smell, and prefer them to be freshly out of the shower for cuddling. and there is probably 20% of women who I like so much in evry other aspect but their smell just repelling and I really need the to wash right before and after any close acrivity.
Likewise I get high on smelling her pussy and she tastes great. Whereas it’s more of a neutral experience with most women, and a few women the smell is so repelling
that I don’t even go down on them.
Anyways, this was just to provide some context to my question. BD and PF, are you sensitive to body smells? How do you believe it plays in attraction and seduction? How do you feel about each others body smells?
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 12:43 am, 11th September 2017Yes. In their inner circle, they practice so called “sex magic” which involves potions, performing spells, calling upon the power of certain goddesses and forces of nature during sex, as well as (at least as I understand it) role playing the goddess Diana giving birth to the universe via a gang bang, or something like that. They also have sex in front of everyone during their wedding ceremonies (at least as it pertains to my girl’s particular coven, assuming it’s a blood moon). I’ve also heard unconfirmed rumors that they drink each other’s period blood, but my girl has denied that.
But I can’t give you anymore details on that because I’ve never participated in any of this nonsense since I myself am not a Wiccan, and therefore, am not allowed into their inner circle (or even their outer circle for that matter). Plus, I’ve never really had any desire to inquire further into their inner practices, especially since they like their privacy when it comes to those matters (and I’ve just never been particularly interested).
The poly community which my girl and I are a part of specifies three relationship tiers – primary, secondary, and tertiary:
A serious boyfriend and girlfriend (which is what we are) is considered a “primary” relationship. You’re only allowed to have one primary who is emotionally exclusive with you (this is what we here call an OLTR). In an OLTR relationship, you’re allowed to have both secondaries and tertiaries. A “tertiary” is a one night stand or a fuck buddy with whom the relationship is exclusively sexual and completely casual. A “secondary” is an FWB, or “friend with benefits” with whom you may have a friendship with and hang out with as friends doing platonic activities in addition to being occasional or regular lovers. This is what BD would probably call a “low end MLTR” or a “high end FB.”
I currently have two regular tertiaries. My girl has one regular (male) tertiary and one regular (female) secondary. Plus we have group sex with her friends who are her occasional secondaries and my occasional tertiaries.
Neither my girlfriend nor myself are capable of actually being in love with more than one person and our particular poly circle isn’t structured for the “multiple primaries” concept, even though such structures are common knowledge in all poly communities (even the poly communities that don’t practice them).
I’m very tempted to say yes. The problem is that most mainstreamers won’t differentiate between compersion and cuckoldry. I would never tolerate a situation in which my girlfriend is fucking other men while I’m just sitting there like a loser and watching, or worse – masturbating instead of participating. Nor would I tolerate her having lovers on the side while I have none. That would make me a cuckold and that is beta and unacceptable. She wouldn’t tolerate that herself either.
On the other hand, yes we both experience compersion in the sense that we are very happy for each other when one of us experiences great sex with someone else and tells the other about it. I love listening to her stories about her other lovers and the very intimate descriptions of her sexual activities with those other partners. Sometimes I even ask her to talk about a previous sexual experience she has had with another partner while she’s in the middle of fucking me. It’s hot. And she also very much enjoys hearing my sex stories with my side lovers as well.
But when we’re both in the room, either both of us are having sex or neither of us are. Neither one of us is cuckolded by the other, not even in the name of compersion. But I guess we do experience it because when one of us finds a new lover or has done something sexual with someone else, the other instantly wants details like two best friends talking about their sex lives and each being happy for the other one.
Plus, I want any girlfriend I have to fuck other men because if I’m her only source of sex, she gets needy and insecure and I get uncomfortable with that responsibility which I don’t want. So “compersion” yes. “Cuckoldry” no.
Cyx
Posted at 03:06 am, 11th September 2017Hello, Pink Firefly.
I really like your responses to the weird questions. Nothing better than seeing haters bite off more than they can chew! 😉
I have no doubt that you are in a wonderful relationship. Initially, there was nothing I wanted to ask, but I remembered you have some interesting insights about him and his work. Pretty excited to ask *these* questions! 😀
You seem similar to BlackDragon, personality-wise. Although you mentioned communication differences and an opposite MBTI type in a previous answer, you seem to share some of your man’s go-getter mindset. I’m familiar with BlackDragon. So I wonder how you differ from BlackDragon, in terms of your desires, how you approached life, and what you have gotten from it?
Pink Firefly, I’m also aware that you have read some of BlackDragon’s works. His writings often clicked with me, unlike the crummy “life advice” I’d get from people as a kid. However, some of his explanations of people lack nuance, so I would see inconsistencies with seeing how other people are doing in their relationships. What would you say are your biggest disagreements with BlackDragon regarding how women and people work?
I asked some pretty broad questions, but I think you can help me understand myself more. I appreciate your time. 🙂
I ♥ accuracy
Posted at 04:39 am, 11th September 2017To Blackdragon: It’s “bears children, not “bares children”…
Prodia
Posted at 05:08 am, 11th September 2017INTJ vs. ESFP would be definitely complement each other.
Because it’s exactly the opposite of each cognitive function.
The problem though, that BD struggle with PF would be lack of deep conversation/connection; initially it is just relationship without bonded-shared-long term “kinda like that” thing.
Only 2 solution then:
1) BD keep his role in this relationship as like he was portrayed in this blog(having fun, high sex drive, not giving a fuck-guy). He must suppress his dominant from born prime character(deep-thinker,mastermind,visionaire).
OR
2) PF learn to developing her least-likely developed character(mindfull,big picture idea,detached views)
Bulma78
Posted at 06:44 am, 11th September 2017Pink Firefly, Lovergirl & Kryptokate,
You girls have to watch the movie Blue Crush 2! It takes place in south Africa and it is a fantastic movie. The first Blue Crush is fantastic too, but the second one is nothing like the original one.
POB
Posted at 09:32 am, 11th September 2017BD, I can’t remember if you ever talked about the adaptations a TOTH guy has to make in his lifestyle to accommodate an OLTR.
I guess it’s ok when you’re not that much into variety – but if you need to constantly sarge and have sex with new women it can become a huge a problem once things get that serious.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 01:09 pm, 11th September 2017Dude. What the hell.
PF can provide her own answer to that if she wants, but PF and I are almost direct opposites in terms of personality temperament. However, her and I have huge agreements on almost all big-picture life items, such as freedom, happiness, independence, love, honesty, achievement, the state of the USA, thinking outside the box, and various other things. Refer to this post for more info.
It’s funny; this weekend PF went back through her old notes and found that she’s actually an ESFJ; close to an ESFP and not quite. I actually thought she was an ESFP too, but the more I thought about it the more “J” she was (and where her and I share some similarities).
I’ve mentioned it but never delved into it. The TOTH guy is going to have to keep sarging new women on the side during his OLTR, Gene Simmons style (before he pussed out I mean), instead of maintaining one or two long-term FB’s like I’m doing. Because you’re right; a TOTH with an OLTR and 1-2 long-term FB’s on the side would bored as shit very quickly.
As usual, being a TOTH guy is more work. (But if you’re a real TOTH guy, you shouldn’t care.)
Pink Firefly
Posted at 03:20 pm, 11th September 2017I’ve actually read some research articles while in college that stated certain body odors are connected to human sexual attraction. I assume that is what you are talking about. I agree with this because I experienced it myself. I went on several dates, including on vacation with a man many years ago, and I just couldn’t get past his “smell.” Everyone has a “smell” and if you’re completely repelled by it, then I believe it’s not a good match.
We can’t figure out why we love a specific person’s body odor, but we do. As a woman, there are few things sexier than watching our guy remove his shirt after a day at the gym, or after playing football with his friends, or after going for a run and catching a whiff of his scent: a combination of deodorant, rugged masculinity and, our favorite, his natural musk (better known as body odor).
People spend hundreds of dollars trying to cover that pesky BO, layering on powders and perfumes and colognes to get rid of it. (I admit, I love men’s cologne) However, as much as we think we might hate body odor, we unconsciously love it, too. For all of the few female readers, if you’ve ever worn your boyfriend’s old t-shirt and found yourself getting weirdly turned on, you’ve experienced this phenomenon. I can specifically say, I love wearing BD’s sweats.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 03:50 pm, 11th September 2017Yes!
BD and I have a lot of similarities but a lot of differences too. BD is always very positive and looks at what good things are happening in life, however, I would look at more of the negative or the “what is happening right now and how do I fix it” aspect of the issue/problem. BD has taught me to look at the bigger picture, I might not like what is going on at the moment (with work, family, friends, ect), but looking at the bigger picture and seeing that things do get better is a more realistic and more positive approach. I still struggle with this, but I’m getting better. This is where why it’s great to be with someone who see’s things differently at times. I tend to take things as they go, day by day. BD doesn’t do that, he looks at the big picture, the future and plans accordingly.
Also, BD see’s things black and white, while I see things in grey. I don’t believe everything has an answer, as there can always be grey areas. Although BD only see’s things as black and white, we are a good match because I get to see his point of view and he get’s to see mine and we learn from each other.
BD uses statistics to back up his discussion. I personally feel that stats don’t always tell the story about people and how they work. As BD always says, there are exceptions to the rule, but when I see so many exceptions on things, I don’t always agree with his stats. I also don’t agree with BD that all people should open their own business and work from home. I think there are many people in the world that shouldn’t be owning their own business, they would better succeed at a 9-5 job where they can interact with their coworker’s daily and can go home and relax after work. Many people need repetition and need a lot of interaction throughout the day. I’m not saying that starting your own business and working from home is a bad idea, as I just opened a travel company myself. I just think this idea is not good for everyone. I think starting a business takes a lot of drive, determination, motivation and a positive outlook, which many people don’t have.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 03:51 pm, 11th September 2017I’ll have to check it out. 🙂
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 04:00 pm, 11th September 2017I’m retired remember? It will be ten years or so before I’ll have to make money again (and by then, many of the things I’m doing now online and elsewhere will set me up for that).
I don’t have to increase my income in order to buy a house with two bathrooms. I can easily buy a two bathroom house right now if I want. The reason I originally bought one with one bathroom was because I didn’t feel the need to spend extra money (especially since I was living alone at the time). Since my girlfriend moved in with me this spring, I haven’t been (majorly) inconvenienced by her bathroom habits (they’re not as feminine as some women’s). And the last monogamous woman I lived with here (back in the day when I still believed in monogamy) gave me only minor problems in terms of bathroom habits.
Nevertheless, we did discuss moving to a larger place after the baby is born. But ultimately, we might just end up with a duel live in situation in which she may get her own place next to mine (she has more money than me) and the baby will have the benefit of two homes for all practical purposes. Her mom has also floated the idea of simply giving her one of her properties to live in (she has a few) if it gets too cramped with me. Or we may just get a larger two-bathroom place together. Many possibilities after the child arrives.
And:
Okay, fair enough.
You mentioned in your Open Relationship book that, if properly prepared, 90 percent of women (no matter how mainstream they are) will allow an open relationship, even if reluctantly. The remaining 10 percent likely have some mental problems or major hang-ups according to you. So you found a mainstream, average sex-drive, woman with no mental problems or hang ups who reluctantly is doing the open thing, at the cost of “mainstreaming” everything else around that inflexible rule (marriage, conservative appearances, home décor, etc…).
Well……..I suppose you did prove to us that you were right. It’s easy to get a freak like my girl to do the poly thing, but yours actually requires superior seduction skills and a strict adherence to your book’s step by step process. I sincerely hope that other men who feel that this can’t be done with mainstream women get inspired by your example, whereas I’ll stick with the natural female red pillers.
And yet, these beliefs of hers do not inconvenience me in any way. Most of her Wiccan beliefs have actually greatly assisted me with my sex life, whereas the others have either been neutral or perhaps just mildly irritated me (the drama and problems I’ve had with her in the past mostly revolved around her mom). Also, I’m not in a rush to get her pregnant and I don’t mind waiting a few more weeks/days.
And if it’s a content between who’s OLTR is less Disney, I win.
Well if you want to broaden this to include irrationality in general than I guess I can’t argue, but I was attacking something more specific. Either way, I see your point in the broad strokes.
Kevin
Posted at 10:15 pm, 11th September 2017PF
Thanks for the great comments on the blog
The one that real made me laugh was a different one,where BD says when the neighbors chickens escape and land in your yard ,his daughter thinks they are cute but you think they are disgusting!
Do not let them inside the house are you will have a mess!
Chickens are pretty silly creatures
LibreMax
Posted at 10:44 pm, 11th September 2017Thanks PF for the detailed answer about your attraction for BD’s musk 🙂 I also liked how BD’s answer and yours were different. This is indeed a topic that seems to be more wierd or maybe taboo to men than to women.
Another question for you PF, have BD and you talked about having another smaller place to live not to far from your home? I am not interested to know the finacial detail here, I don’t care to know if it’s renting a studio, or buying one or maybe you will still keep the place where eyou currently live. Whatever the arrangement. My question is, about how you feel about this idea and whether you guys discussed that.
LibreMax
Posted at 10:50 pm, 11th September 2017Jack, I would be very curious about the sex magic things if I were to date a Wiccan. I believe it’s not only 100% bullshit what they study and do there, despite the fact that “magic” sounds nuts.
I didn’t realise some people could mistake compersion. for cuckholding, these are very different things.
Caleb Jones
Posted at 12:06 am, 12th September 2017I don’t think so but I might have.
I’m an Alpha 2.0. I’ll “let her” do literally whatever she wants. I don’t tell her what she can or can’t do. But if she gets romantically involved with another man, it’s not an OLTR relationship anymore. At that point, it would be just a MLTR. And I want an OLTR; I want the deep emotional bond one can feel with one who is emotionally exclusive. (Sexual exclusivity means nothing to me; it’s just sex.)
But that’s just me. Other men may be perfectly happy with MLTR’s forever.
I would be fine with that. I laughingly even told her she could fuck another dude right on the living room floor if she wanted. 🙂 She didn’t like me saying that though (it violates a lot of Disney). The rule about no FB’s in the house is her rule for me (unless she’s involved somehow). I don’t have that rule for her. I’m outcome independent and I’m not threatened by other men.
If she told me she was totally and deeply in love with another man, I’d maybe feel jealous. I think I’d be more hurt than jealous though.
Beyond that, I can’t really think of anything else.
I know.
I know when I’m right, regardless of how much people get upset or disagree.
I do too.
To each his own. I find most natural female red pillers as either too weird or too masculine.
My point is if you attack one woman for one form of irrationality, that’s a little hypocritical when your own woman has even more.
Pink Firefly
Posted at 01:22 pm, 12th September 2017I believe a while back we talked about possibly getting an apartment near by, but I don’t think we will end up doing that. I think having one place at this point in our lives will work great for us. This could be something to think about in the future though.
I told BD that I wouldn’t mind getting another place if we decided to do that, although, I don’t think it’s really necessary. A good thing about it would be the couple days of separation would allow us to miss each other, like when we lived separately. I don’t feel like I get enough of BD now, so I’m good with only having one place. 😉 Maybe in the future I’ll think differently though. 🙂
CF
Posted at 04:50 pm, 12th September 2017So many comments. Lots of scrolling required when reading from a phone in multiple sessions. Specially when chrome decides to clear the ram and I have to scroll from the top… again. Haha.
@PF and BD
Thank you very much for this ama! Appreciate your patience in answering the questions. There’s a few instances where I would’ve considered just closing the window and walking away.
Looking forward to future updates.
LibreMax
Posted at 07:45 pm, 12th September 2017“A good thing about it would be the couple days of separation would allow us to miss each other”
Exactly 🙂 You’re one of the rare women who understand this!
Lots of love for you to 🙂
Jack Outside the Box
Posted at 01:52 pm, 17th September 2017I know the general gist of it, but it’s just too dorky for me to get immersed in its details.
You and I know that. But most of the sheeple will equate emotional happiness at your partner’s sexual success with being physically turned on at the prospect of watching it while masturbating.
Lola
Posted at 03:41 pm, 19th September 2017Hey there Dragon and Firefly,
I know this thread is now closed to questions for FF but I’d be interested to hear from BD as well on this, or any other commenters.
A bit of background – I’m a woman nearing 30 currently in a relationship for almost a year. I would say I’ve categorically been a serial monogamy practiser/provider-hunter as described in the glossary throughout my dating life (late teens and onward). I’ve typically had oneitis and Disney (there’s BD nodding knowingly). I’ve cheated in a previous relationship which never got discoverered and have not discovered having been cheated on yet.
My first relationship during high school is barely worth mentioning, the one that followed lasted through the bulk of my twenties, the one I’m now in stemmed from my first and only real experience with online dating. He was the only person I slept with from the experience. I had met one person previous to him on the same site but we didn’t ‘click’. I typically haven’t had many sexual partners with which I was not in a committed dating relationship – had 2-3 ONS/FB type situations in my life and hoped they’d turn into more. In dating, I almost always hoped it would turn into more. HOWEVER..
Reading the contents of this blog has really revolutionized my thinking. I am still a new reader – I went from shocked and appalled, to extremely curious, to reading it like it’s holy scripture within a span of 6 weeks or so. Of course there are some items I’ve read that I disagree with but I treat those as learning about the inner workings of a man’s mind/the opinion of the writer or commenter and move on.
The actual reason I’m writing is (if you’ve gotten this far you get a gold star) – I love my current partner (30, alpha 1.0), at this point I am totally satisfied with our sex life and don’t feel tempted to get in bed with another, and I hope he feels the same. BUT in coming to understand the ultimate doomed-ness of monogamy (and in remembering times in my own life where I’ve done things that I wouldn’t want my then-partner to have known about), I realize I’d much prefer not to lie or cheat, or be lied to and cheated on.
At some point in the future should my current relationship continue to longevity and we come to the things which are written about throughout the blog.. I’m looking for a guide for women to open their relationship, or some sort of guide for women on how to manage and succeed in an open relationship. I don’t feel as though the information in the blog is always a applicable for women to use in practicality. I am aware that this is a sort of men’s club but from time to time I notice you do write things that are very applicable to women even just for us to learn how to BE and not to be in relationships.
I’m certain deep down my current partner would love an open relationship but would never ever ever admit it to me and I can’t imagine him accepting even a subtle hint from me. But I could see him cheating/lying. If there’s a link to a post I’ve not seen yet on this topic please do share!
Gil Galad
Posted at 05:07 pm, 19th September 2017@Lola: you could start with reading this https://alphamale20.com/2014/12/14/best-life-path-women/
Lola
Posted at 06:42 pm, 19th September 2017@Gil awesome thanks, I will check that out!
Lola
Posted at 12:27 am, 20th September 2017@Gil I read through that post, very interesting, thanks for pointing me to it!
There are a couple of things I think BD would point out about my first post – my problem lies in the fact that I’m with an alpha 1.0 and that we’ve promised monogamy. I wonder if it’s still early enough though to break it open in my case?
If not then the invetitable will occur at some point and in the future (now that I can’t un-know what I know) I’ll be different right from the start of the next relationship I get involved in.
That’s what leads me to wonder generally how do women happily in open relationships manage it from the initial talk to the full out lifestyle?
B
Posted at 04:50 am, 27th September 2017You could read “Opening Up” by Tristan Taormino. She has many good points for women and couples. I doubt that your Alpha 1 boyfriend would be communicative and open minded enough to listen though… but that’s just my guess as to what will hold you up as far as pursuing an open relationship.
Daniel
Posted at 07:28 am, 27th September 2017Well there you have it, BD, PF believes that the success of your relationship is not related at all to your A2.0 methodology and it essentially has not “worked” on her.
Would love to hear your comment on this.
POB
Posted at 01:43 pm, 27th September 2017@Lola
If I’m not mistaken BD has a book on opening-up mono relationships. Of course it’s designed for men but maybe you could ask him if it’s worth your money/time?