Dating Trends I’ve Noticed in the Last 10 Years
A few months ago, I celebrated my ten year anniversary as an unmarried Alpha Male 2.0. It has also been about eight years since I professionally started this Blackdragon endeavor as a dating and relationship advisor to men.
Ten years is a long time… ten years of dates, women, nonmonogamous relationships, and communicating with literally thousands of men all over the world on these topics (as well as with women too). Today, I will go through some of the big changes and trends I’ve noticed in the dating and relationship world, as I compare things from 2007-2010 to today, 2017.
Some of these trends will be obvious to the typical person, though many will not be. I have no idea if these trends are truly global, or throughout the West, or if they will continue into the future (though I can make some educated guesses). I’m just noting the changes I’ve seen with men and women based on my own experiences and the men and women I’ve talked to over the last ten years or so.
Here we go…
More Older Men, Younger Women Relationships
This one is the result of other trends I’ll cover in a minute. I am seeing way more older men, younger women relationships everywhere I look. Back in 2007, these were around, but reasonably rare. They’re still rare as compared to greater society, but they are much more common today than I ever thought they would be.
This is very interesting, since as the culture moves further to the political left, more and more Western countries and districts are actually raising the age of consent, because, according to all these left-wing over-33 women, 17 year-old women having voluntary sex with 25 year-old men (or older) is clearly evil and wrong and Must Be Stopped™.
It will be very interesting to watch these two conflicting sources do battle over the next few decades, Type 2 VYW and the men who love them vs. angry, left-wing, older women who have the backing of both government and the growing cultural zeitgeist.
Older Guys Stupidly Getting Serious With Women Who Are Way Too Young
Likely a result of the above trend, in the last few years I’ve seen a massive upswing in the number of older men (men in their 30’s to 50’s) getting into very serious relationships (with long-term expectations) with women who are as young as 18 to 22. Usually these relationships are monogamous. Many times they move in together.
As I talked about here, this is utterly stupid. If you want to have sex with younger women, by all means go for it. But, Jesus you idiots, getting into a serious relationship with a woman that young, with long-term expectations, particularly the expectations of any kind of monogamy or exclusivity, is one of the dumbest things older men do.
Look pal, that 20 year-old girlfriend you just moved in with is a teenager. It doesn’t matter if she’s over 19. If she’s about age 22 or under, she’s a teenager. Do you seriously expect a fucking teenager to do what she promises over the long haul? Do you seriously expect her to not fuck other guys? Do you seriously expect her to not just bail on you whenever she gets bored?
Hell, it’s hard enough for women in their 30’s and 40’s to not do these things! By getting into this kind of relationship with a god damn teenager, you’re asking, nay, BEGGING for a huge pile of future problems.
I keep seeing older guys do this, and it’s not good. If you want to have fun with younger women, keep them as FB’s. If you want something more serious or long-term, keep it to women a little older, ideally age 25 and above.
Women Being Much More Open to Open Relationships and/or Polyamory
Now this is a good trend, and one I predicted a long time ago, that I’m happy turned out to be accurate. Way back in 2007 and 2008 when I was first getting started with this stuff, if you even hinted at a nonmonogamous relationship with a woman, she would be horrified, like you just slapped her in the face. This was even true of younger women in their 20’s. Creating and navigating FB’s, MLTR’s and OLTR’s was somewhat difficult and you had to be extremely careful.
Today? Not a problem. Some women still get horrified of course, but many of them react with a shrug. This is because at least some of their friends or family have tried it, or they’ve at least heard about it. Don’t get me wrong; nonmonogamy is still out of the comfort zone of the vast majority of people out there, but the knee-jerk revulsion that existed ten years ago is now much less common. Women are much more open to this now. Thank goodness.
As monogamy becomes increasingly impossible, expect this trend to strengthen and continue.
Online Dating Is Now Mainstream
An obvious one, but an interesting one. Back in 2008 when I first started talking about online dating on PUA forums, “online game” was a very new and very controversial concept. Night game was king, and night game PUA gurus were enraged that people were even talking about the internet as an option to get laid. Online dating was “for pussies” and “didn’t work” and “wasn’t real game” and “didn’t count.” Sex only “counted” if you cold approached a woman in real life. If you fucked 40 women from online dating sites, that didn’t count and no one should listen to you, because you had no game. (Yes, they really said this!) And you were probably lying, since only “hot guys” or guys who spent piles of money on women could get laid with online game. (Yes, they really said this!)
Oh, how things have changed.
In reality, things were the exact opposite. Online dating back in the mid to late 2000’s was a shooting gallery of easy sex. It’s harder now (though still workable if you do the right things), but back then, response rates were sky-high, even on “harder” dating sites like Match.com. MySpace later came online and made things even easier. Because it was new, it was easy.
As with all new dating technologies, eventually online dating went through the five phases. Today, online dating isn’t as easy as it was ten years ago, but if you are patient and do everything correctly, you can still get laid with a constant stream of new women.
Men Are Much More Angry
I don’t really need to talk about this since I’ve already discussed this topic in great detail in posts like these:
Trump Wins…And Nothing Significant Will Change
Marrying A Non-Western Woman Won’t Work
I Officially Disavow and Repudiate Rapey PUA
An Open Invitation To The Alt-Right and Manosphere To Tell Me Where I’m Wrong
Why Young Men Don’t Want to Man Up
Men all over the Western world are far angrier about women, dating, relationships, and marriage than they ever were ten years ago. Sadly, I think this trend will increase. Instead of adjusting their approach to women and long-term relationships to reflect new norms, men are instead choosing to scream their heads off in hysterical anger, trying to time warp the entire world back to the 1950’s (the alt-right) or sit on their fat asses and rely on government to fix all of their problems (progressives). Both of these are losing propositions in the long-term.
Man, good thing I walk a different path.
Men have now broken themselves out into the six categories I described here. Only one is conducive to long-term happiness; the rest are not.
Sugar Daddy Game Is Gaining Momentum
I wrote about the sugar daddy phenomenon here (though it’s a little dated now) and have an entire updated how-to chapter on sugar daddy game in this book. Because of worsening economic conditions, higher inflation, the rising cost of useless, rip-off college degrees, the high number of single mothers, and the increasing number of older men with money getting divorced or cheating on their wives (since monogamy doesn’t work), there’s been a huge upswing in sugar daddy relationships, to the point now where it’s almost considered not quite mainstream, but more like “unusual but common.”
Married guys are recommending sugar daddy game to their other married buddies. Young hot college students are recommending it to their friends. It’s becoming normal.
I predict that as the West continues to decline, sugar daddy game someday will be considered normal. How it’s specifically done will change of course, but the concept will grow.
More Men Are Removing Themselves From The Dating Pool, Eliminating Competition for the Rest of Us
Back in 2007, hell, back when I was a young man in the 80’s and 90’s, competition for women was fierce. You had to compete not only against the good-looking guys and naturals, but also against normal, every day betas, who actually could “get the girl” if they tried hard enough.
Today, many men (incels, angry MGTOW’s, losers, uber-betas, porn addicts, herbivore men, older virgins, etc) have removed themselves from even trying to get laid, relying instead on porn and sexy video games.
Society thinks this is terrible. (Japan’s government is in panic mode.) I think it’s great. Though betas raise the bar to entry in many respects, the actual number of men you have to compete against for any one woman has noticeably dropped in the last several years. This trend will continue. It’s bad for society, but the Western world committed suicide a very long time ago. In terms of your dating life, less men is a good thing for you.
Night Game Has Diminished
As I already said above, night game (picking up girls at clubs and bars) was a HUGE thing back in 2007 and prior. Pickup pretty much was night game. There were some daygame guys but they were minor players in the pickup culture. Online game wasn’t yet a thing, and social circle game was barely talked about.
Over time, fewer women went to clubs (usually getting their validation from online sources like Instagram and Tinder instead) but more men kept going. Night game guys all over the PUA community and the manosphere started complaining that going to bars/clubs was a sausage fest, and that was several years ago.
Today, most of those night game guys of old have now (temporarily) removed themselves from the dating pool (as I just said above) by surrendering to monogamy or traditional marriage. Daygame is really huge, online dating is huge, and there’s more of a focus on social circle game than ever before. Night game is still definitely a thing (I notice Owen and the RSD guys are still at it) but it’s almost a 180 degree change from ten years ago.
Men and Women Still Attempt Monogamy Just As Much, Even Though It Works Even Less Than Before
This isn’t so much a trend as a continuation. I would have expected fewer people to try monogamy as divorce rates continue to increase, cheating rates continue to increase, and monogamy satisfaction continues to decrease. Yet, that hasn’t happened. True, people are waiting longer to get married, but people of all ages and generations are still getting into monogamous relationships in vast numbers, even though it almost always ends up in divorce, cheating, breakups, and drama. People are still clinging to monogamy with dear life and won’t give it up just yet.
I honestly have no idea when the mainstream will finally get the balls to admit that this system isn’t working anymore. It’s very likely we have a few more decades of pain, suffering, divorces, cheating, anger, hurt, and screwed up children before normal people start openly embracing long-term relationship models that don’t include absolute sexual monogamy at all times.
It’s going to be very interesting to watch. Here’s to the next ten years!
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Hah, regarding older men / younger women. Here, in France, the new president (aged 39) is married to a women aged 62. Yeah, it’s older woman / younger man, but add that to Trump who is doing the opposite : huge age gaps are really becoming mainstream.
Funny thing about Macron’s older wife, btw : they met when he was 16 years old, and she was his teacher. Yep, the French first lady is a sexual offender / pedophile (*), and nobody seems to care. Not that I do care either, they seem pretty happy together. But feminists are even eager to defend her. They keep saying “if he was older than her, everybody would consider this is normal, but you guys keep mocking Mrs Macron; you bunch of misogynists !” And my point is : even feminists now consider a young woman / old man relationship to be “normal”.
(*) in France, the legal age of consent is 15, unless you have any sort of authority on the teenager, eg if you are his teacher / boss.
I was one of those fools who got deeply involved with a much younger woman. To be fair, the seriousness was partly driven by serious circumstances……her peeling off from her deeply religious family while maintaining relationships with them and tragic suicide of her little brother. After his death she changed her major from bio/chem to mathematics….people have responded to such tragedy worse….and got into Berkeley in a full ride STEM PhD program. I didn’t expect it to last forever but I did expect it to last her undergrad years, and that’s exactly what happened-to both of our benefits.
I could never see being monogamous with a younger woman again. I didn’t do my unicorn any harm, we split when she was 23, so I didn’t really hog her prime years (yes, I have done that in the past). If I was seeing someone 27, 28 I would not want to be monogamous for at least two reasons: 1) I don’t want to be in this situation again (building up from 0) and 2) I wouldn’t want to get in anyone’s way regarding life goals, esp. children. I drive a two seater for a reason.
By the way, gents, if you want to scare a younger woman who wants to be monogamous off, just get her to imagine the age gap when she’s, say, 60 and you’re, say 80. Much bigger difference than between 20 and 40. Of course, I think that the men are much more likely than the women to be pushing monogamy.
I guess I feel heartened by the men removing themselves from the dating pool. I sort have, but it’s been more of a readjustment. I had a smokeshow half my age on my arm for 4.5 years. That’s what’s called a confidence builder. I just knew it was dangerous to get involved with women before getting my own head together. Which is more or less now is. I’m not angry at all.
I think I was trying to do too much with my last dating profile. The way they are set up encourages us to set up a CV, which is the worst thing to do. BD, this might be too specific for your general forum, but you made a huge point that “fun fun fun” is the name of the game when going for younger women. I’m thinking of setting up two profile: One entirely organized around rock climbing. Nothing about judo, my job, dancing, or really anything else….”Looking for a climbing partner” (with benefits is assumed, it’s a dating site). A second profile, same idea, entirely organized around swing dancing. My thoughts are that this gives potential younger women plausible deniability….”it’s just swing dancing and looks fun” or “I always want to climb outside.” Thoughts?
BD, thanks to your content on mASF in 2009, I was able to end a 3-year monogamous relationship. Since then I’ve walked the early stages of the Alpha 2.0 lifestyle with FB‘s, ONS, mLTR’s, and mOLTR’s, but after a while this stopped bringing me happiness. It felt like I was on a hedonistic treadmill just chasing dopamine spikes and NRE.
So now that I know long-term monogamy is nearly impossible and I also know that having a lot of sex with a lot of women doesn’t bring me happiness, I don’t know what to do. Seduction is starting to feel insignificant/meaningless, except for the purpose of self-indulgence or the perptuation of the human species.
I also have a location-independent business and a Mission, but I developed some sort of apathy/jadedness/cynicism towards existence in this modern society, seduction included. It was much easier for me when I was just a horny, low conscious, ego-driven 10 year. Now that I know human relationships can be systematically exploited (and how to optimally do so), I can’t help but feel sad about it.
Hi BD,
As usual a very nice read!!!
Do you think that the angry of western men about women will trigger a collapse in the marriage market in the next 10 years?
I agree that in the 80´s, 90´s and even in early 2000´s competition was quite hard. But today it is harder even if a lot of men have removed themselves from the dating pool, why? because today most women have an overinflated perception of their SMV due to social networks.
Excuse number 8 here.
You don’t need to have sex with lots of women. One MLTR/OLTR and one FB on the side is all you need. That’s two women, not lots.
No. I think the vast majority of Western men (including the angry ones) are too beta, needy, brainwashed and pussifed to say no to traditional marriage when they’re in their 30’s or 40’s. Instead, I think marriage will slowly decline over a period of several decades to the point where people who actually get married and monogamous and with long-term expectations will be 20% of folks or less. I.E. there will be no sudden “crash.”
That’s one reason. There are a few others, that I talked about here and here.
And for the record, dating today isn’t “harder.” Instead, requires a slight different set of techniques that lots of men refuse to utilize.
For example, if getting laid with hot chicks today requires you to use something like Snapchat (and it doesn’t, I’m just using an example), and you say, “What?!? Fuck that! Snapchat sucks! I’m not using that!!!” then dating hasn’t become harder; you’ve just being inflexible.
Times change. You need to change with them or suffer unhappiness.
America is the birthplace of Disney. We are Disney HQ #1 now and forever. Reality facts and statistics be damned in the name of our lord Walt Jesus True Love Disney Christ.
No. No she’s not. This mislabeling of pedophilia on the internet really has to stop. Most people don’t seem to know what pedophilia is:
Pedophilia – a sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children based on a lack of visual fertility and a sexual disgust towards teenagers and adults based on visual signs of fertility.
Normal heterosexuality – a sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex based on visual/biological signs of fertility originally manifesting at puberty and continuing into adult years.
Now, obviously I don’t condone breaking the law, but being sexually aroused by teenagers is not pedophilia. It’s normal heterosexuality. And having sex with underage teenagers is not pedophilia either. Legally speaking, it’s “statutory rape.” There’s a huge difference between fucking a horny 15 vs. raping a 5 year old. Both are illegal, but only the latter indicates a sexual orientation other than normal heterosexuality!
Get it right, Internet! Get it right! I’m getting sick of these SJW bastards calling Milo Yiannapolous a pedophile just because he seduced a priest at age 14 and suggested that he’s “grateful to Father Michael, I wouldn’t give nearly such good head without him.”
No pedophilia from the French first lady. Just normal heterosexuality. Move along people.
BD, you can also add…. More Interracial Dating and More guys going overseas to date women.
Fixed. I have met hundreds of ratchet party girls, who are well over 25. But its just my observations really. Chicks in general just like acting like high schoolers, which to me is hilarious because I’m able to distinguish between immature chicks and mature chicks, but the common beta male isn’t able to do this. That is why we are seeing more MGTOW, its because they just want sex handed to them.
Also I jokingly predicted on the RSD boards that homosexual men will be more common than heterosexual men in the 2020s. I was called a raging conspiracy theorist for it but I think I may have been onto something.
That may not be a joke now, seeing as MGTOW are more or less closeted homosexuals. And since homosexuals are slowly being seen as “saviors” we will see a lot more nancy boys going into the 2020s. And like BD says, that’s a good thing for alpha 1s and 2s.
By the 2020s online dating will probably be just as easy as it used to be in the mid-late 00s, just because we’ll see more men “becoming” gay.
I honestly haven’t seen an upswing in this (since 2007 anyway; certainly I’ve seen a difference in this since the 1980’s). Perhaps there is statistical data that indicates this; not sure, but I haven’t noticed any increase in the last 10 years. There was plenty of interracial dating 10 years ago.
This is too small for me to view as a trend. Rather, I view this as a new tiny fringe that exists. At no point are you going to see 20% or even 10% of American men do this; it will always be a tiny few, despite what you hear on the internet.
BD, Good observations. The only ones I have not seen is nighttime game and men removing themselves from the dating pool. I have noticed all the others. One interesting trend that I have noticed and experienced is a flip of the older man/ younger women dynamic. Over the last couple of years, more younger men are going after older women than before. I predict that women will continue to increase their openness about open relationships, sugar daddy game will continue to increase in popularity, and people will continue to attempt monogamy but monogamy will gradually decrease in popularity over time. I do hope the angry men trend will decrease, I much prefer happy men!
These are some changes I have noticed as a nightgamer:
1.- Way more fit guys than ever before.- this is probably due to youtube channels, advancement in fitness such as intermittent fasting, and myfitness pal.
2.- Girls are way more Distracted than they ever were before.- Every 2 freaking seconds with snapchat, or instagram etc… Adding to the already club distractions…
3.- Less guys pulling.- Is not unusual at the end of the night that season players that know each other and get together looking at themselves “what the fuck is happening”???
4.- Ubber and lift.- You lose some lays like that, women used to drive themselves or you gave them rides, which you could use as a tool to isolate and fuck…
5.- Tinder and the rest of the apps.- I really believe this is affecting night game
6.- Bunch of clubs closing down at a faster speed.
7.- Sausage fests are more common.
8.- More guys know game somewhat.
You can still pull from night game but is getting harder and harder
Hey BD…you don’t seem as high on internet dating compared to before (at least as far as okcupid, match, POF, etc.) based on how you worded that in the article (“though still workable”). Or maybe that’s how I took it.
In Austin for example …which is now around a top 10 city population wise and growing rapidly, I noticed that there were barely any girls on OKC, at least cute ones. Meaning once you filter for some good looking women, you start scrolling down and then it just ends quickly and that’s it… it’s like you can go through the entire amount in almost a day or two. Makes me think they are all jumping on tinder/bumble and apps like that where they don’t have to do any work (like making a profile in okc/match, etc) and still get plenty of dates and guys messaging if they wanted. Almost as if they lost the incentive.
If you were getting started to today, with all the changes and everything you know now about ID now, would you do anything different? Using tinder or other apps more, etc?
Yes, I’ve noticed this as well, though it’s not as steep a change as the other trends I mentioned. There’s a lot more hesitation to dating much younger people with women as there is with men.
Internet dating is internet dating; it doesn’t matter if you use OKCupid or Tinder; it’s all online dating. I don’t really differentiate the two. One is a dating site, one is a dating app. It doesn’t matter which one of these the women go to. There are minor differences in the technique, as I cover in my online dating book, but the core system is the same (make sure you have fantastic photos, pitch the first date relatively quickly, don’t kiss women’s asses, don’t waste time, etc).
Also, I communicate with guys on almost a weekly basis who are still getting laid with dating sites like OKCupid. And of course lots of guys get laid with dating apps like Tinder, Bumble. I’ve had sex with many women using both sites and apps. Again, it doesn’t make any difference to me.
No, I wouldn’t do anything different than the techniques I recommend in my online dating manual. That’s why I updated the entire book last year. I would do what I always do; go on at last three dating sites or apps (your choice), get some amazing pictures taken, and follow the sequence.
(The only big difference in online dating is sugar daddy game, but that only applies to older guys with higher incomes. For everyone else, the sequence is still the same.)
BD, I was dating a forensic psychologist for several weeks. Things were cool. We were supposed to have a Wednesday date. I get a text Monday morning saying she has to cancel date because we want two different lifestyles. Apparently, she used her forensic psych background and looked up my postings/activity n this website, LMFAO! She texts, “you underestimated this forensic psychlogist and gave away all your “rules” (insert my online name). I didn’t need 4 months to figure it out, just 3 weeks. Hopefully you get better at some of those rules and clean up your online trails.” Cant make this stuff up…Anyhow, keep up the great work!
I’ve, been thinking about buying your book. So checked it out on Amazon. Made me laugh because immediately below the cover pic is an “Add to Wedding Registry” link. The irony made me laugh out loud….
Only Problem is now that online dating is bigger it has MUCH more bullshit to sift through. Most of those Swipe Right/Swipe Left Apps are just an extension of Facebook and Instagram for attention whores. So it can make your surges need much more effort to cultivate your list of girls to try.
Not a complaint some frustration, but more of an observation.
IMHO this is core to current nightgame blunders. Why would she have sex with a stranger she met at a party if she can just dance with her friends, gets heaps of attention from good-looking guys then go home and get MORE attention online?
Speaking about online, the only thing I’ve noticed these past couple of years is that I had to increase my total numbers to get the same amount of real dates. A little more trouble for sure – but not a deal breaker.
The rest of the issues are inherent to online game and continue to be the same, no matter how good your techinique is (flakes, ghosting, etc).
Haha! That is fucking hilarious! That’s worthy of a screenshot!
Accurate. I’ve discussed that before, particularly here. That’s one of the big reasons I stopped using Tinder.
That’s another trend; the increase in the amount of attention whoring with younger women. I think this is one of the many reasons the Millennial generation is having less sex than prior generations.
It will be interesting to watch these young women age until their mid-30’s, after they have children and more flabby bodies, to watch them go from constant attention whoring to… what? I’m not sure, but I’m sure they won’t like it.
They have the loud “backing” of under-33 women who either have failed to attract males or the males they would have an interest in.
It’s funny like, when people have deep subconscious motivations to take the stance they are taking, they don’t talk/type serenely. Rationality is brought down to the position of a tool, they formulate assertions that (since they have to be expressed in verbal language) are still produced rationally, but their rationality is an appearance.
You feel the anger, discomfort, the whole reasoning is bursting at the seams…
Honestly?
Try to look at the whole scenario from a general, not a self-centered, standpoint.
You know that civilization exists on condition that instincts, liberty, are repressed. You know what % of people can have liberty without harming society, civilization, and their selves (and rules, as well as programming, are tailored for the talents of the many, not the few. That’s how you govern a society)
So, the people who govern (the mainstream media among them) try to be responsible.
They’ll say the truth when another way of life, reliable and orderly, has presented itself.
Also, many of them are people who can stay and are staying married for a whole life (through open marriage), because at their level of rationality it is not that hard (these are no Disney folks at all).
Just a random musing, as I was reading the rest of the article and some of the comments I can hear my roommate who is about 30ish, having a shouting match with his gf who is 23. One of her cats went missing. LMAO love it when BD’s observations become real right before your eyes lol
RE Nightgame – I’m not sure it’s any more of a sausage fest than it’s always been. I’ve only been going out for the last 5 years, but even Mystery talked about lack of women at clubs back in the late 90’s.
The real problem is the skillset required to generate results. When The Game came out, all they talked about was number closes because phone numbers weren’t so flaky.
Nowadays, good luck. You have to go for the pull to prevent a flake. Blame Tinder, Instagram, whatever. People now are just flakier.
And pulling isn’t easy. I only pull sporadically. Out of a group of 20-30 pickup guys, I only know 1 who pulls consistently, and he’s an assistant for one of the major dating companies.
IMHO, that’s a terrible system – 1 out of 20 who can get consistent results.
Night game is just challenging. Women are on guard, so you have to open many girls to find someone who’s receptive. Once you find her, her friends have to be conducive to her getting picked up. Even if you succeed at 1 and 2, you better have logistics handled so you can continue spending time with the girl.
I still think night game can be extremely rewarding, but online dating and day game can be dramatically more efficient.
My current guess is that nightgame and even online are becoming a type of social game.
Just think about it: everything is social these days. Every dating app features some kind of social or sharing feature (like instagram integration), every new club features some kind of photo/video sharing (live or through a website) and you can check-in and share your life whenever you go.
Google and Apple have built-in softwares that transform our smartphones into a life recording machine. I’ll not even mention Snapchat.
We’ll sure have to adapt to these new realities and proceed acordingly OR be left for dead. Want some real life evidence?
Posted a picture of my kitchen countertop (yes, the countertop) yesterday on instagram live and instantly got a message from a FB wanting to meet me. Five days ago posted another one of a big soup cook (no kidding!) and got 3 instant messages – one from a MLTR, one from a FB and another one from a distant fling who was ignoring me on whats app.
Times are sure changing.
You’re describing why the mainstream won’t admit monogamy isn’t working. I was talking about when.
Traditional girlfriends are drama. The entire system of “monogamous girlfriend” is designed for drama.
In my opinion, night game is for Thrill of the Hunt guys, guys who want pickup to be “difficult” or “rewarding” (i.e. hard to do). Of course daygame and online dating are more efficient than night game, but efficiency isn’t the goal of all men. Some men view challenge as more important.
Online game does not have the quality of girls that night game has (the way around this , in nightgame you can pretty much see how the girl looks…. Day game you have sometimes to run around for hours to find hot girls (most of us have jobs, and businesses)…Also, night game is a lot of fun… Though is getting harder compare to previous years, but based on this blog online getting harder as well (you need to put more numbers bottom line)…
my wing that does online game gets around the hotness issue via a chat pre meet (on webcam)
plus seems the nightgame issue may be Geographical (curious to know this, created a post a forum)…
Nightgame can also be efficient if you pull the same night (though as the other nightgame said it is getting a bit harder)…
I think if all games get much harder, eventually all the players will keep going mono, so lets competition…(but that is bad for online since guys that are mono still game online)
Overall wish there was more participation on this subject of changes… To make sure we are not coping aka making excuses or if there are syntoms that are legit…
I love that some men are under the impression that nightgame is “harder” or “inefficient”.
It’s so easy, and so fast. It’s only difficult for the first year, or until your approach anxiety is totally handled.
The idea that you even need much “game” is absurd. This year I’ve pulled ~6 girls home from bars, and I don’t even go out that often. I get laid about 1/2 or 1/3 times I go out.
All you have to do is look good and walk around looking for girls that seem available. When you see one, just touch her and talk to her for a few minutes and then ask her to come home with you directly. The last 3 times I got laid this year happened that way, with young, attractive women who were out with their friends or by themselves.
Night game will always be the most efficient way to get laid after Tinder and dating apps. No one can get as many girls from daygame as quickly as I can get girls from bars (clubs are another story, don’t go to clubs).
But as long as the myth persists, it’ll be even easier for the guys that put in the work.
In 6 months 6 girls, is a girl per month, so i don’t understand what are you bragging about… water is wet with looking for “available girls”, what the blog is about is changes in dating vs previous years… Have you noticed any changes?
About efficiency, yes i agree that nightgame is the most efficient, since you can pull right away vs day and online game (though my buddy will have them come to his house from tinder)
This completely depends on location and what type of venues. Night game in a big club is a little bit different than in a dive bar.
I’d argue that in the big clubs its ALL a scam and RSD and their ilk are still preaching that it is the “only” legit way to get chicks even though there is physical proof that the videos they put out are staged and they pay models. I’m not even sure why BD even bothers to mention RSD anymore. They haven’t come out with anything of real value since Jeff Allen’s online dating series in 2014, and even that was completely outdone by BD’s own online dating materials.
In a dive bar, if you don’t know anyone, you are also sunk. If you get at a chick or a group of chicks in a dive bar and you don’t know most of the regulars and some of the staff, you’ll be seen as the creepy pickup guy and you’ll get your ass beat. I’ve witnessed this happen in front of my very eyes at my local watering hole. Guy bounced around doing stupid RSD crap and was pounded into a hamburger for his efforts. We all just laughed.
Night game only truly works if look like you can, and know how to, beat up other guys. So if you don’t look like the same bouncers who will kick your ass for hitting on the chicks there, don’t do it. The “challenge” in night game are usually the overly jealous try-hards who will throw hands if you look at them funny. I’ll pass.
This is absolutely not true..
Well it was actually 6 girls in 4 months. I’ve been focused on other things this May. Add that to the 1 daygame girl and 6 other girls from online and that makes 13 girls in 4 months, which certainly is something to brag about. That’s 39 girls a year, which is vastly more than most men sleep with in their entire lives. But the point I’m making is that this was with minimal effort. Going out a few times a month and getting 1-2 new girls is highly efficient.
My numbers are consistent with guys in the manosphere who did this about 6 years ago. They had the same results: getting approximately 1 girl for every 2 or 3 nights out; nothing has really changed in that regard. Maybe some guys on the internet have become disillusioned with nightgame, but that doesn’t matter. The change in efficiency has been minimal.
That’s a good point. Guys can cheat using online dating but can’t (as easily) using night game. So yes, over time, men doing night game will decrease while the men doing online will increase or at least stay the same.
Then you say…
Exactly. It’s not that night game isn’t efficient. It’s that, as you just admitted, online dating is more efficient in terms of time spent / results ratios. I.E. the typical guy (not super stud, but the typical guy) will be able to fuck more women in less time spent “gaming” via online than via night game if you add up every minute night game takes vs. online dating. Again though, as I said above, lots of night game love the thrill of night game so much that they don’t care, which is perfectly fine.
And I’m positive it took you less total time (if you include all the time spent with prep work and approaches that didn’t work) to fuck those 6 girls via online than it took to fuck those 6 via night game. Notice that of the 13 girls you’ve had sex with in the last 13 months, only 46% were from night game. Thus my point.
I’m not bashing night game. It works well for guys who are willing to work it, and it has an advantage over online in that you get to see the entire package of a woman before you isolate her. And it’s more fun for more extroverted guys. I’m just saying online game is more efficient, because it is.
In regards to Night Game, and as someone who’s been doing it quite successful for the last several years, here are my observations and why I think night game has gotten easier:
It’s true that there are less girls out at bars and clubs but this isn’t a problem, it’s actually made things easier since the girls that are just seeking attention and validation have filtered themselves out and moved online to things like Instagram, Tinder, etc; thus the ones remaining who still go out to the bars at night are more receptive to hooking up and same night lays.
Also, as mentioned less guys are going out because they either think it’s a sausage fest or they’re at home playing video games, thus filtering out competition. The ones that remain are either booze hounds or beta bros who are still too scared to approach so it’s quite easy to compete with a slobering fool and timid talker who’s too afraid to tell a girl she looks sexy.
I do still see some guys still approaching though, but the problem is they’re running indirect game which is a complete waste of time these days if you’re doing night game, and probably why some of the other commenters here are claiming that night game is too difficult. Direct or rapid escalation, whatever you call it is the way to go now a days, make your intent known very quickly and you’ll have a much easier time getting a DTF girl.
As another commenter put it, I see WAY more older women out trolling and picking up younger guys, even ones who are married, it’s pretty crazy how easy its become to have no strings attached sex with a sexy 40 something urbanite woman these days. I don’t know if it’s the yoga or the kale but damn some of these 40 somethings are staying in amazing shape and they love to fuck!
So that’s my observations, although I may be a bit biased since my increasing night game ability could just simply be from increased skill and practice over the years but I tried to be objective as possible.
And one other observation is that while Online Game is getting bigger, a lot of those people still meetup at night time venues. In fact, over the last year I constantly run into both girls and guys who are meeting for online dates, and there have been a number of occasions where I’ve been able to capitalize off of online dates that have gone bad – for example if a girl is meeting a guy for a hookup because she just wants to get laid and her date is a Nice Guy and fails to pull the trigger, it become quite easy to swoop in on that 🙂
@Matt Savage
Hehe – thanks for the pro-tip!
^THIS ^
Guys who are already good at night game will never have a hard time to pull, no matter what. They have the required tools: social skills, awareness and boldness to isolate and proceed to sex.
Guys who are starting now, on the other hand, will probably have a steeper learning curve if they choose this route.
Love them too!
P.S. Great insights by the way!
Honing in on maximum achievement again after putting it down a while back and seeing a lot of parallels and light bulbs between this post and that book. Thank you
I have been cuplable for falling for teenagers. Their rawness and naivity intrigue me therefore drives me to the notion that they are the best partners that are ideal. However, on several occassions, I have undergone numerous disappointments. Still, I have not been able to establish why I keep on enticing and falling for these kind of women.
Everytime I encounter a teenager (23 or younger woman), I become excited at the prospect of monogamizing them since I deem them to be flexible and easily manipulated/ controlled. Obviously, my success rate is usually high, as I have dated quite a number. But now am concluding that they do not offer long term happiness but just temporary satisfaction. I really want to break off from the chain and the addiction that I have for these teenage girls. I do not know how I am going to do that, since my affinity for these women is extremely high.
My request for BD is to do an article that will enlighten men on how to avoid falling for teenagers with the expectations that one can have a monogamous long-lasting relationship with them. BD should also tell us how to detach ourselves from the teenage women, since most of them are sometimes naive and demand constant attention. Perhaps, the moment you treat a teenager with the attitude of an Alpha 2.0 male you may end up losing her to the needy male who constantly gives her attention, communication and physical-wise. I think BD should shed light on this.
It’s no secret. You do all the things here.
Online Dating Is Now Mainstream
Which sites are best in 2017?
Match.com used to be ok a couple of years ago, but now seems to be nearly useless (plus it costs money). Is OKCupid better? Which is the best one that is also free?
Plus, is there a good article here about how to get the most out of Tinder? I am young enough to get under-33s (potentially), so that is not the limitation.
Thanks,
Not true at all. If there is more anger about dating it’s in the U.S., and mainly online. If your focus is on online discussions, then it might look all-pervasive. What does happen, however, is that men become more fed up with feminism as it becomes increasingly extreme and removed from reality.
And the alt-Right wants to return to the 1950s? You mean with housewives? All I have seen in the manosphere is a defense of those women who want to be housewives, and those men who want to support their wives. Isn’t “different lifestyles” a good thing? But the alt-Right does not say women should stop working. And the alt-Right is a wide category anyway, with a lot of different opinions. Basically the one thing that is agreed on is opposition to the Left’s plan to swamp the West with mass immigration, and that opinion is obvious. When it comes to sex there are many different views. For and against pornography, and so forth.